Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

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Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

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Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

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There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

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Question:

I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

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Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

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And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape.     C.Webster

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed.

There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips).

Yep.  I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

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There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  

That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret. <g — Charlie…

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I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can?

Don’t know about ol’ Prince Albert but of late,  I’ve been using a satchel.  It’s a smallish bag designed for students with slots for pens, disks, etc.  Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ah, yes . . . reminds me of a gal I saw once in a bar in Okinawa. And the things she could do with a cigarette and a beer bottle . . . but that’s another story .  :-) Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest. That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret. <g — Charlie…

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Thanks, Bill. Seems like the vest distributes weight a little better. I don’t have long legs and frequently manage to soak the bottom of my vest, but wonder how a loaded chest pack feels after a day of fishing. Expect I’ll go with the vest. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

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The first tackle box I ever had was a tobacco can. Can’t remember if it was Prince Albert or Half and Half, but those cans were great. And If you were eight years old you could sometimes find a few shreds of tobacco and really live dangerously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape.     C.Webster

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Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Yep.  I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

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I glue them together back to back.  I take two such assemblys and cut radial notches in them and fit them together so they fit 90 degrees to each other. Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

. The CD, of course, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

        …or watching paint dry, which i will speculate is one of your most challenging intellectual endeavors.         get it? wayno

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<RWP mused and asked:  What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? Like most other things I usually want more than one solution to every problem.  I have this ordered from L.L. Bean but it won’t be available til March 18th.  I bought it for float tubing and deeper wading (I keep soaking my current vest although is it a "shorty" wading model — maybe cuz I stand only 5′8" tall in stilettos). TC21140 Olive Modular Fishing System Large Chest/Fanny Pack……$49.00 TC24057 Black Modular Fishing System Ultralight Chris Fanning — still trying to buy his way to fly fishing bliss…

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Thanks to everybody for the ideas. I still dunno what the hell I’m going to do. But you’un’s thoughts are helpful. Bob — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <RWP mused and asked:  What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? Like most other things I usually want more than one solution to every problem.  I have this ordered from L.L. Bean but it won’t be available til March 18th.  I bought it for float tubing and deeper wading (I keep soaking my current vest although is it a "shorty" wading model — maybe cuz I stand only 5′8" tall in stilettos). TC21140 Olive Modular Fishing System Large Chest/Fanny Pack……$49.00 TC24057 Black Modular Fishing System Ultralight Chris Fanning — still trying to buy his way to fly fishing bliss…

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I came home tonight and found that ‘resident’ had been sent an AOL CD. Nicely packaged in a thin metal container.  YeeHaw.  I’ve got a place other than my hat to keep those tiny flies now.  I grabbed a magnet off the ‘frig and found out it’ll work just fine. The CD, of course, was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Wait for a second one, put a spindle through them both, and a small bolt or similar on the rim of one, put this in a simple stand, and you have an excellent linewinder. You can make a nice tool stand for fly-tying tools etc, in a similar way. Just drill holes around the rim, and mount the disc on a heavy bolt or similar. Depending on the reflective material used, they also make excellent lamp reflectors. They should not be mounted too close to heat sources though. If you buy a cheap electric clock motor, mount it behind the disk, and then mount the hands, then you have a nice wall clock. Cutting notches around the rim of the disc, turns it into a very handy cast holder. These were very popular at one time. If you glue a raised rim to the disc, and partition the disc with further strips ( like an apple tart decoration with pastry) of strip cork for instance, then you have a very handy stackable hook store. There are lots of other uses for such high grade plastic discs.  If AOL and others want to give them away, then I see no reason not to use them. TL MC

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The first tackle box I ever had was a tobacco can. Can’t remember if it was Prince Albert or Half and Half, but those cans were great. And If you were eight years old you could sometimes find a few shreds of tobacco and really live dangerously.

I came home tonight and found that ‘resident’ had been sent an AOL CD. Nicely packaged in a thin metal container.  YeeHaw.  I’ve got a place other than my hat to keep those tiny flies now.  I grabbed a magnet off the ‘frig and found out it’ll work just fine. The CD, of course, was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a great belt system  keep a tight line

I have the LL Bean large chest pack with cargo strap, and I can carry more stuff than I could in my shorty vest, and everything is better organized and easier to find. Also, the weight is more evenly distributed. I also got the mesh strap for hot weather. I have tried using the pack with the included belt as a fanny or hip pack, but it just doesn’t feel right for some reason. I really like it as a chest pack, though. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Bob Patton

Bob,   I used the same vest for many years, a Stearns inflatable model.  Because of the heavy cloth and the enclosed rubber bladders, it was very hot in the summer.  I bought a "Fishpond" ($60.00) chest pack/hip pack a couple of years ago.  You can wear it either way.  I needed to use the neck strap as I am "hip challenged" and I couldn’t keep the thing from sliding down to my knees.  The pack works pretty well but when fully loaded, sticks out quite a ways.  I used it mainly as a hip pack but used the shoulder strap to keep it from sliding down.  I didn’t like using it as a chest pack.  Just always seemed to be in the way.   On my way back home from the Yellowstone clave, I treated myself to a Simms mesh vest ($100.00).  I like this vest better than the chest pack.  The weight is spread out very comfortably across the shoulders and holds everything I need.  It’s cut short for deep wading and seems to be the best compromise for me.  I needed to remove the chest pack when I rowed my pontoon and there’s always a chance it will end up floating down the river. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a

Response:

Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob

I used to use a Filson vest that I bought because I love those old school Filson products; however, it was way to heavy and the snaps tended to stick shut in the cold….one cold day in Yellowstone park, I couldn’t open the snap on one of the pockets and ripped the pocket trying.  Same day I bought my Simms vest in West and haven’t used the Filson since. Eugene K.

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I just received a "FlyTrap" that I bought from ezflyfish.com. Looks like it will beat the hell out of fleece and styrofoam patches. Bob

//snip// pens, disks, etc.  Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Response:

Just a test, please ignore.

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See Subject. Lou

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See Subject.

See Subject run.

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See Subject. See Subject run.

Run Subject.  Run! — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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I can see subject run now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See Subject. See Subject run. Run Subject.  Run! — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Sorry just testing…

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Sorry just testing…

Hi No problem about testing, that’s how we learn.  Next time ask a question or share some information.  We’d like to hear from you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Testing the water to see if this ng is available to an amateur

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Testing the water to see if this ng is available to an amateur

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. — Ken Fortenberry

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Testing the water to see if this ng is available to an amateur

LOL! Now THAT was funny!

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Testing…1…2…3….!

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This is only a test…  Bow-wow!

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Testing…1…2…3….!

____ Are you going to sit on that porch all day or are you going to come out and play in the yard with the big dogs now? ; ) the puppy Mr. G.

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Bell South has today changed news group servers. I apologize for this test, but I am a long time lurker.

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Bell South has today changed news group servers. I apologize for this test, but I am a long time lurker.

There’s an alt.test group that’ll not only post but send you an email about what’s happened to it.  Not that that matters when you regularly read a group, but it’s sometimes a pain to the poster to wade through everything to find out if his / her post made it.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Are my messages getting out to the NG?  None of my new messages and/or replies seem to be getting to the NG. Bob from El Paso

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We read you loud and clear Bob! — Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are my messages getting out to the NG?  None of my new messages and/or replies seem to be getting to the NG. Bob from El Paso

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Thanks for responses fellas – ran virus scan – no vireo, DSL was AOK, sent Netscape nastygram, fed Ol’ Whiskerface hot half-done steak and cold salad. Is amazing how nice rabid-computer-users (& fishers) get when you feed’em up good.  Let’s see if this message gets out.  Truly I don’t know how I fixed it.  Blond thang, I guess. Bob’s Wife in El Paso, repainting blistered walls..

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Filter ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Since Mr. G quit posting I don’t have any thing on filter.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Filter ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Response:

Sorry Ernie, the time is incorrect.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Thanks for responding to this.  I have been having trouble with my ISP and I don’t see the messages I send to ROFF, does any one know why I wouldn’t see the message when Herman did? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Ernie, the time is incorrect. — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Hi John this test Keith

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Hi John this test Keith

Did you pass…lol –Randy

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Why aren’t my post getting there?

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Why aren’t my post getting there?

Where?

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Why aren’t my post getting there?

try hitting the send button. it’s the big button on your cpu. waldo the helpful

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Question:

my partner and i are planning a trip to missoula this summer to see an old friend. unfortunately, he doesn’t fish, so there’s no immediate info on runnoff, snowpack, etc. we’re two wisconsin steelhead anglers who’ve soured on the notion of stampede fishing. we’d like to come to montana to escape the crowds. what’s that mean? we’re looking for a bit of info on runoff so we can avoid the crowds while still hitting a few nice dry-fly days. and we’re not necessarily looking for that "true" montana big water experience either. just a good trip, some challenges but more relaxing and just a general time to ease out. in our minds, brook trout caught in uncrowded waters are sometimes bigger than a brown in a crowd. hope this provides some info on what sort of trip we’re looking for a small glimpse on the sort of guys we are. *as a note, we’re interested in a few guided days, so any guides are encouraged to respond by email. thanks, jason

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my partner and i are planning a trip to missoula

I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for, or when you’re trip is planned.  I live outside Missoula.  I can tell you we have about average snowpack this year, so we’ll probably have an average run-off, which means forget all of May and most of June.  The last week or two of June might be all right.  But when run-off is running off, everything’s pretty blown out.  The nice thing is, different rivers go at different times.  Often Rock Creek will blow and clear while the Clark Fork is blowing.  The Blackfoot is usually a little later than the others.  That said, of course, depnding on how everything comes off, you could catch an amazing days or two on Rock Creek with the salmonfly hatch.  You’ll want a guide for that, and for my money the best guides are out of the Kingfisher fly shop, which I don’t have a phone number for, but they’re in information and they’re right off the interstate, first Missoula exit if you’re coming from the east.  Those guys hands down, no question, beyond a doubt have the best guides in town. From the last week in June through July and August you should have excellent fishing.  I would suggest hitting some of the Idaho panhandle streams (which I don’t want to post the names of, but ask around when you get here).  I’d also try the North Fork of the Blackfoot, way, way up, hike-in style, just because it’s a fantastic experience, and also often full of cutts and sometimes bull trout (which are endangered species so catching them is a no-no).  Upper upper Rock Creek can be nice, but the problem there is going to be crowds.  The Bitterroot is, well, see this month’s Fly Rod & Reel magazine.  The Clark Fork above Rock Creek is a waste of time, but from Rock Creek down all the way to St. Regis there’s very good water.  You’re going to find most of your fish up against the banks.  Depending on the time ofyear you’re here you could catch golden stonefly hatches, pmd hatches, really steady evening caddis blizzards, among other things (baetis, etc).    Missoula has very good fishing, very close, but it’s often overlooked for the more famous fisheries over by Bozeman.  I think you should hang around the Kingfisher, and call me if you want.  You should be in for some real treats.

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Question:

I’ve been boating for over 20 years and fly fishing for half of that…while waders will not "sink" you, they will act as a sea anchor if not used with a belt…they should  be great for keeping your feet warm when used with a dry suit…great idea.  KA I can’t imagine seriously wearing waders with the remote possiblility of a swim.  I’ve heard of several drownings resulting from waders filling up with water and sinking people like rocks.  Sure wouldn’t want to try it myself. …Steve Baker

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I can’t imagine seriously wearing waders with the remote possiblility of a swim.  I’ve heard of several drownings resulting from waders filling up with water and sinking people like rocks.  Sure wouldn’t want to try it myself. …Steve Baker

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Most people who drown in waders are wearing the old style rubberized canvass waders, they are big an baggy and would hold allot of water. Additionally most people who drown while wearing waders are not wearing a PFD.  Most modern waders are neoprene and have a snug fit.  Still you should always wear a belt to keep water from going down into the legs, and always wear a PFD, especially in cold water!!!!!!! SYOTR John Sims – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t imagine seriously wearing waders with the remote possiblility of a swim.  I’ve heard of several drownings resulting from waders filling up with water and sinking people like rocks.  Sure wouldn’t want to try it myself. …Steve Baker

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If you wear waders in white water, or anywhere there is a chance of a swim,  be sure to wear a good quality belt around the waist, and cinch it tight to keep water from getting into the bottoms.  Neoprene waders work best, but be sure and get ones that fit pretty tight.  From someone who has swam Double Z wearing waders, when he flipped a dory at 6′ in Late October, a few years back. SYOTR John Sims – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of threads have mentioned wearing waders under paddling jacket. This sounds a little shakey (flooding etc), but I was thinking that I might try Gregg

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I tried it myself a couple years ago when I was playing with the Buzz SOT, and stayed bone dry. I made a neoprene belt. i dunno about classIV+ swims. Those experiments ended when I found a nearly new Kokatat dry suit for $200. But this winter I’ll combine them for a real cold trip. Gregg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you wear waders in white water, or anywhere there is a chance of a swim, be sure to wear a good quality belt around the waist, and cinch it tight to keep water from getting into the bottoms.  Neoprene waders work best, but be sure and get ones that fit pretty tight.  From someone who has swam Double Z wearing waders, when he flipped a dory at 6′ in Late October, a few years back. SYOTR John Sims A couple of threads have mentioned wearing waders under paddling jacket. This sounds a little shakey (flooding etc), but I was thinking that I might try Gregg

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A couple of threads have mentioned wearing waders under paddling jacket. This sounds a little shakey (flooding etc), but I was thinking that I might try neoprene waders under the dry suit. This would add a little more bulk and not all boats would have space. But putting the wader into the dry suit then donning the whole thing would eliminate wrestling with  the ankle gaskets. Feet would stay toasty dry, ass would also be warm and dry also and that alone should save lots of body heat. There might be excess air in the legs, but there wouldn’t be any reason not to walk out into 4′ feet of water for a quick burp out the neck gasket. This might actually be too warm for any padding when air temps aren’t below freezing, but that’s a risk I’d take. Risk of flooding would be exactly the same as the dry suit minus the waders . Maybe I should just get a thousand pair from China, slap on cool logos and sell them in Outside magazine for $200. Gregg

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Question:

Sir, Go to my web page and click on Resources.  Once there click on Champ Charters and email Captain Paul.  He is a great guy and an awesome togue and salmon fisherman.  He will certainly be able to help you.  Good luck. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont And yes lakers are very deep in August…downriggers are a must. Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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every year i go to the northern maine woods to camp and fish. it has been three years and going again the first week in august. i have never even gotten a bite. i am from mas. and solely fish for bass which ifeel i am very good at. so im new to the lake fishing theres also salmon in maine lakes. i would appreciate any help or info on methods,time,weather on cathching them. this will be the first year that i will be using a downrigger in hopes it will work. not sure the proper depth but heard that

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Question:

Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? ThanksYes.  I’ve used it for Muskie (and Largemouths).  It does everything I

need from such a line.  I can even roll-cast, after a fashion. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy — Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON, Canada http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

Simon, I had great success for pike using a shooting head system with intermediate thru xtra-fast sink heads. I bought a couple of floating shooting heads, but never used them because they’re incredibly thick and bulky on the reel when compared with the sinking heads. Also, since you’ll probably be fishing big streamers and stripping them most of the time, it really doesn’t matter if the head sinks. (Often it’s even more desirable to use xtra-fast sink to get the streamers down to submerged weed beds. As to the special-purpose pike lines, I havn’t tried them because I just can’t justify a line which was built for just one specific purpose like that. A good shooting-head system is infinitely more versatile. (Plus allows you to cast heavier flies further and with less effort than a full-length line.) Regards, Fred

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

Simon,    I don’t think shooting heads will give you any advantages.  In fact, I think they’ll cause more problems than fix.  A long cast is not needed, and the pike often hit it close to the boat leaving you with a bunch of line to clear.  Sight fishing is also a definite possibility with pike, so you need a line that can deliver the fly accurately.  Also, in the spring and fall they are in shallow water, so a sinking line is not needed (maybe for summer).  I use a cortland pike taper, and it works fine, but I’ve thrown the same flies (2/0 bunny flies and mega-divers) with an inexpensive cortland 444 WF 8wt and a bass bug taper lazer line.  They work well enough.  In my opinion, a shooting taper is not the correct line.  A pike or bass bug floating weight forward is what I’d reccomend. Rob Gregoire

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Question:

Jay, One of the problems you might be having is that the mailing list stuff is all taken care of at TU National.  I’d try a call to national TU to see if they have you on the mailing list of the local chapter.  I don’t think many local chapters maintain there own lists.  They use labels they get from national.  I know that this problem has occurred with my local chapter.  Dave

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Such is the way of small groups. "That which belongs to all is cared for by none" I have been involved in a number of small groups (industry, alumni, etc.). Everyone wants more out of the group and have plenty of suggestions but nobody wants to do the work. In the rare insrtance that you do get a volunteer you’ve got a pretty high fallout rate.  I would assume different TU chapters have varying levels of activity depending on the amount of effort put in by the people. You’re looking at the most consistent method I’ve found for communicating with individuals about fly fishing.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m new to this sport.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m new to this sport.

Dear Filthyfly:         This is not a stupid.  The best advise I can give you is find a local flyfishing shop in your area.  Give them a call, get to know them.  If there isn’t a local speciality shop find the nearest sporting goods store.  They should have someone who can help you find areas to fish in and be able to give you information on what to use.  If neither of these is an option, there are listings in the back of the flyfishing magaqines for outfitters and shops. Many of these offer a toll free 800 service.  Give them a call and see if they can steer you in the right direction.           Good luck.  If you ever get up to Utah and are looking for places to go drop me a line and we’ll get you to some great places.   Tight Lines-Steve

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m =

new to this sport. Dear Flyfisherman, I’d also look up a local chapter of Trout Unlimited in your area.  I am vice Pres of the Rapidan Chapter in Virginia and there is de= cades of experience in any chapter that will be absolutely free.  If you decide to join it will only cost $20/yr.   Besides teaching you how to fish they will also help you to understand how to protect and preserve what we have. Bill Althoff Flyfishing is Life; the rest is just details.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m = new to this sport. Dear Flyfisherman, I’d also look up a local chapter of Trout Unlimited in your area.  I am vice Pres of the Rapidan Chapter in Virginia and there is de= cades of experience in any chapter that will be absolutely free.  If you decide to join it will only cost $20/yr.   Besides teaching you how to fish they will also help you to understand how to protect and preserve what we have. Bill Althoff Flyfishing is Life; the rest is just details.

    Maybe I’m out of line here, but I am a little curious as to what I should expect from TU. I joined my local chapter about six months ago with high expectations of getting in touch with many fellow ffishers in my area.Looking forward to meetings and was even interested in attending weekend river restoration retreats.   Short of receiving a couple of old issues of the local newsletter which I had to call and request, and getting the usual package which contained the LOGO sticker (which BTW has since deteriated from my Suburban’s window), I have heard nothing. Now, I don’t expect any hand holding or certainly would not appreiciate a barage a calls, however, I would think that some sort of communication from my chapter regarding monthly meetings or such. Am I whinning to much???                                                             Jay

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Maybe I’m out of line here, but I am a little curious as to what I should expect from TU. I joined my local chapter about six months ago with high expectations of getting in touch with many fellow ffishers in my area.Looking forward to meetings and was even interested in attending weekend river restoration retreats.  Short of receiving a couple of old issues of the local newsletter which I had to call and request, and getting the usual package which contained the LOGO sticker (which BTW has since deteriated from my Suburban’s window), I have heard nothing. Now, I don’t expect any hand holding or certainly would not appreiciate a barage a calls, however, I would think that some sort of communication from my chapter regarding monthly meetings or such. Am I whinning to much???

Jay, Various chapters of TU have differing amounts of activity, but TU’s forte has always been on a national basis.  That’s the biggest reason that Caltrout became such a force in California.  Most of the $ for TU from CA were leaving the state for projects elsewhere (national).  Caltrout spends all in CA and nowhere else (regional or local).  We need both types of organisations.  If your chapter is not active enough for your tastes, either get involved by finding projects (such as stream restoration) that need doing and start pushing from the bottom to get it started (I should warn you that you will probably be put in charge of such a project when you do) or contact the Federation of Fly Fishers and see if there is an affiliated club in the area.  Most of the fly fishing clubs in my area are affiliated with the FFF and often sponsor local projects.  Fly fishing clubs are great repositories of skill, knowledge, and bullshit.  They religiously have monthly meetings and feature skills, projects, fishouts, etc.  Give it a shot.                                                            Dan                                                        Dan Gracia                                                        Schools Coordinator                                                        Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

You’re a wealth of information.  Thanks!  And glad to see you’re in higher ed too.  No wonder you’re so willing to share info.  Got any suggestions on the best dry fly patterns to use?? Roger Gary L. Bertrand

: Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a : question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of : those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep : a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it : anyway. : : Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open : and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? : : Roger. : : I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout : parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 : trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 : daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 : catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), : but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching : much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar : with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30. :  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it : unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook : with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, : something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook : (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of : Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in : all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only : they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty : heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and : drops off during the winter. :       The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are : trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. : You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout : without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, : but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua : R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very : much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter : season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a : couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for : fly-tying supplies. :       The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky : enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe : even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is : best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May : there’s too many people all week. : Gary : — : Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry : University of Missouri-Rolla

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One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get there.

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I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet. : One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- : take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can : provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get : there.

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I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet.

Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the parks (4) all winter. — Gary L. Bertrand

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Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger. Gary L.

: I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing : "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been : too long since my waiders have been wet. : : Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the : Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing : only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the : parks (4) all winter. : — : Gary L. Bertrand

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Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger.

I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30.  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and drops off during the winter.         The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for fly-tying supplies.         The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May there’s too many people all week. Gary — Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry University of Missouri-Rolla

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I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

You will have to decide what is easy driving distance, but I’ll give you some ideas.If you are talking about in the normal in season time, Do the Merremac River and the Current river. As far as the Merremac goes, there is a bunch of big water fishing from around St. James on downstream. (Jon boat is good to float with then get out and wade.) The Current river offers some great classic trout stream fishing from Montauk springs on downstream. (Montauk is good for the kids and some practice in the flys only sections. Also a decent place to stay.) concentrate your serious fishing however on the current river downstream from the springs. Locals can give you guidance. Canoe is good for transportation. There are a few liveries around Montauk and you can park your car at the pickup and float down to it and leave the canoe. Don’t be put off by the Corn fisherman in the parks. They are gettin’ dinner and having a good time with the family. The Classic fishing, as I said is in the streams out of the parks. If you want some REAL western type fishing, go to Mountain Home Arkansas and fish the White and Norfolk rivers. Definitely hire a guide at Blue Ribbon Flies in Mountain Home. It will make your trip worthwile and safe. Best fishing is this time of year for the big ‘uns. Great fishing year around though. By the way, some of the land on the Current River (which is part of the Ozark Sceninc Riverway) was homesteaded by my ancestors, and I still have a bunch of relatives  we go see from time to time.     If you want specifics on locations and suggestions rather than these generalizations, Email me and I’ll respond. Kevin Williams-Indianapolis, IN

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I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

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Question:

 Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs)  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                           Brian Hadley

        I’m the onw who’s smewhat responible for all this catfish talk, and through my queries have heard of similar instances.  An article that lies at my feet says that when they spawn, they are best on crankbaits and spinnerbai et etc.  Interesting. —      |  Travis L. Clements |    And we all like the bit when you take      |  N. Logan, Utah     |    The jeans from the refridgerator and  

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writes: Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.

I’ve caught channel cats on 4-5 inch jointed floating Rapalas on the Allegheny River here in PA. I’ve even seen them rising for large white mayflies during a hatch. I wasn’t able to catch them with a fly, only a white Mr. Twister. Jason

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|  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) |  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has |  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures |  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? From time to time I have caught cats on a lure.  They have hit mostly, but not exclusively, crankbait type lures fished along the bottom. The thing this most resembles is a crawfish, i.e., the action of crawling along the bottom stiring up the mud.  The color/pattern didn’t seem to matter-although I prefer shad color crankbaits first and crawfish color second.  I have also caught them on plastic worms when bassin’. Tight Lines, Mark O’Shea — In the absence of common sense we will not accept responsibility for any acts of complete or even partial stupidity.

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|   |  Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small |  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish |  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill |  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) |  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has |  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures |  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? |   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly. My father, brothers, and I catch lots of catfish with fly rods in the brackish tidal creeks that flow into the coastal rivers of Virginia. We fly cast small jigs and small spinners, and fish them on the bottom (which isn’t usually much more than 6 feet down).  This is very effective for all kinds of species — bream, largemouth, yellow perch, stiffback perch, crappie, and catfish.  You even occasionally hook into something a bit more exotic.   My brother once caught a carp that we estimate was well over 30 lbs.  My brother is about 6′ tall and when he held it up vertically, the tail was touching the ground while the nose was up at his chest.  He could barely stuff it under the front canoe seat after he landed it.  He gave it to a family from Cambodia, who must have feasted on it for days.  We occasionally catch carp in the 15 – 25 lb range.  It’s not all that exciting since it takes forever to land them and you usually assume that you’ve hung bottom until it slowly starts to lumber off.  On a light fly rod a big carp probably doesn’t even realize it’s hooked, so it fights like a log.  I guess we could just break the line, but that is just totally anithetical to an angler’s natural instincts. The catfish seem to hit best when it’s hot.  In the spring and fall we get more bream, largemouth, and perch.  But when it gets good and hot, the catfish take over and become the majority of the catch.  It amazes me how in the middle of a sweltering, humid, windless day, when you would expect all the fish in the creek to be hiding in the deepest hole that they can find, that the catfish are having a feeding frenzy in the shallows. We seem to have the best luck fishing from when the tide is about half out down to low tide and then maybe for the first hour of the incoming tide. These creeks have large, shallow weed beds and marshy areas that are exposed at low tide.  As the tide falls, baitfish have to get out of the shallows and into the main channel or get beached.  This is when the catfish (as well as other species) like to stack up next to any little channel that flows out of the marsh and watch the day’s buffet swim by. — University of Virginia Academic Computing Center

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 Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs)  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                           Brian Hadley

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Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                          Brian Hadley

On the Potomac we used to catch catfish on lures all the time, so much so that we used to fish for them specifically with lures. They seem to like the white Mr. Twister jigs we used for Stripers, and also Lime Green Mr. Twisters we used for Largemouth.  We caught plenty on Mepps spinners as well.  I even caught a Bullhead on a tiny torpedo (!)                         Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems      ::            Melbourne, FL

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: Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small : pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish : with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill : and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) : catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has : anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures : is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? :  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly. Caught two on lures last year; both had been sprayed with Garlic Oil(TM). The first was around a 1 1/2 pounder on a purple plastic worm in early April in the back end of a cove on Lake Lanier near Atlanta. The second one was around 2 1/2 to 3 pounds on a "chirstmas tree pattern" Hal Fly on a small lake at Stone Mountain Park.  I was very surpised. I was trolling for crappie at least 2 weeks after they had come off the beds and was only catching "hand-sized" ones (as opposed to some of the slabs that I have caught in the weeks preceeding them going on the beds). I happened to have my small landing net with me, and was rather unhappy that I hadn’t caught the "slab of my dreams" . As for catching catfish on flys… As a boy growing up, my father and I would be able to fish 1-2 times a year with my grandfather in Florida on Lake Talquin(sp).  The lake had (may still have) a large population of blind mosquitoes that were active at night.  We would fish around the full moon with size 8-10 popping bugs for bluegills.  We would catch some "smallish" bass on some trips.  On one trip my father hooked what he taught was a "very" large bass, and after spending approx. 30 minutes getting the fish to the boat the first noise he heard as the fish was being netted was a catfish "croaking".  Weighed the fish the next morning at over 8 pounds. I wonder to this day if that fish was 1) actually trying to eat the popper, 2) chasing a bulegill and got hooked some how, or 3) god just put the thing on the end of that line. — Mike Marler                        | Rich Building, Room 242, Georgia Tech

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