Question:

Why not just carry a PVC tube and break your rod down with line, leader, and fly still attached.  place in PVC when movin’ from place to place. — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone still make "telescoping" fly rods, or is there anywhere I can get one of those old steel ones? I don’t expect it to be a great rod — just barely serviceable would do. A web search shows that Gatti makes a telescoping line of graphite rods, but they cost a fortune. The reason I want one is that I frequently travel on horseback when I’m fishing. I can ride in waders with no problem, but I don’t want to ride with an assembled rod (my horse is afraid of them, for one thing), and the prospect of rigging up my fly rod makes me pass up spots I’d like to try. Unless I’m willing to spend at least an hour at a spot, it just doesn’t seem worth it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Does anyone still make "telescoping" fly rods, or is there anywhere I can get one of those old steel ones? I don’t expect it to be a great rod — just barely serviceable would do. A web search shows that Gatti makes a telescoping line of graphite rods, but they cost a fortune. The reason I want one is that I frequently travel on horseback when I’m fishing. I can ride in waders with no problem, but I don’t want to ride with an assembled rod (my horse is afraid of them, for one thing), and the prospect of rigging up my fly rod makes me pass up spots I’d like to try. Unless I’m willing to spend at least an hour at a spot, it just doesn’t seem worth it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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and the prospect of rigging up my fly rod makes me pass up spots I’d like to try. Unless I’m willing to spend at least an hour at a spot, it just doesn’t seem worth it.

I use a DB Dun rod/reel case and leave my rod rigged up. A 3 or 4 piece model should fit on a saddle like a scabbard. — Charlie…

Response:

Why not just carry a PVC tube and break your rod down with line, leader, and fly still attached.  place in PVC when movin’ from place to place.

I normally carry a five-piece 8.5-foot pack rod, Opie. That sounds like a real mess. I want something I can put in my saddle bags, and I’d like it to be at least seven feet long. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Does anyone still make "telescoping" fly rods, or is there anywhere I can get one of those old steel ones? I don’t expect it to be a great rod

Shakespeare makes some excellent telescoping fly rods, as do a number of other companies. I handled a couple of quite nice Korean ones as well recently. They cost less than fifty dollars, and felt very nice indeed.  No idea about long term quality, but a friend of mine brought his old Shakespeare telescopic for me to repair last year ( he had shattered the butt by running over it with his car ), and I repaired it. It was then as good as new, although over fifteen years old and heavily used. He uses it for fishing in the salt as well ! He asked me to order him a new one as well if possible, as a spare, as the only suppliers I knew of are in England, ( Good old Mullarkeys strikes again ! ), and my friend speaks no English, I did so.   Quite remarkably good for the price I thought. TL MC

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A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you. TL MC

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A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you.

I can find Shakespeare telescoping spinning rods, but not fly rods. I get the impression they don’t make them any more. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you.

I followed one of the links on the search results page you posted. http://www.summerlands.co.uk/newfolder/page503.htm Pretty neat looking little thing. Steve, if you get one of these, a report on how it casts (and holds up) would be welcome.   JR

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you. I followed one of the links on the search results page you posted. http://www.summerlands.co.uk/newfolder/page503.htm Pretty neat looking little thing. Steve, if you get one of these, a report on how it casts (and holds up) would be welcome.

That’s odd. I can’t find this model on Shakespears’s web site: http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/index.shtml The only telescoping rods I can find there are spinning rods. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I bought three from Mullarkeys at the end of last year for various friends who did not want to use conventional multi-piece rods.  It does appear that these rods are only available in the UK.  Whatever, if you have trouble getting one, get back to me with as exact specifications as possible, and I will get you one.   There are some nice Korean and Chinese telescopics available, and they are dirt cheap.   No big risk. Gattis are supposedly very good, ( I was once asked to join the pro-staff of Gatti, and I tried quite a few of their rods, very nice, but far too expensive ) the only telescopic of theirs which I tried was last year, and I did not like it.  I can not remember the model number, but it was the "adjustable length" model. TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you. I can find Shakespeare telescoping spinning rods, but not fly rods. I get the impression they don’t make them any more. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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A search produced the following: http://www.google.de/search?q=Shakespeare+Telescopic+fly-rods&hl=de&csr= One of them should be somewhere near you. I can find Shakespeare telescoping spinning rods, but not fly rods. I get the impression they don’t make them any more.

I’ve picked up a few UK magazines of late and they get stuff from Daiwa etc. that we don’t see here either.  Probably more of the same. Order it direct from the UK instead. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Yeah, that’s a Shakespeare USA site.  They might only have what they know they can market here.  Try http://www.shakespeare-fishing.co.uk/ You might have to order from UK by credit card and have them ship it to you. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.summerlands.co.uk/newfolder/page503.htm Pretty neat looking little thing. Steve, if you get one of these, a report on how it casts (and holds up) would be welcome. That’s odd. I can’t find this model on Shakespears’s web site: http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/index.shtml The only telescoping rods I can find there are spinning rods.

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Yeah, that’s a Shakespeare USA site.  They might only have what they know they can market here.  Try http://www.shakespeare-fishing.co.uk/ You might have to order from UK by credit card and have them ship it to you.

Hmmm. I can’t find telescoping fly rods there, either. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Hmmm. I can’t find telescoping fly rods there, either.

It is a plot to get you to train your horse properly.  Bush must have found out that you wanted one and got his oil company cronies together and decided that they would all just make fun of the Californican trying to train a horse.  Further more, your views on the energy crunch pissed them off so they really had it out for you <g Warren (Did that work Dave S.?)

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Yeah, that’s a Shakespeare USA site.  They might only have what they know they can market here.  Try http://www.shakespeare-fishing.co.uk/ You might have to order from UK by credit card and have them ship it to you. Hmmm. I can’t find telescoping fly rods there, either.

Check the link that JR recommended; http://www.summerlands.co.uk/newfolder/page503.htm The first two rods under telescoping are a 6/7 and a 7/8 wt. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Try this site rw.  A dutch auction of something you might be interested in: http://www.bidland.com/AX/Bidland/items/sports_and_recreation/210885/… .html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can find Shakespeare telescoping spinning rods, but not fly rods. I get the impression they don’t make them any more.

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Just down the road from Big Lake.  This one is a DAM which is German I believe. http://www.gapen.com/rodstelescoping.html#telescopingflyrod – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone still make "telescoping" fly rods, or is there anywhere I can get one of those old steel ones? I don’t expect it to be a great rod — just barely serviceable would do. A web search shows that Gatti makes a telescoping line of graphite rods, but they cost a fortune. The reason I want one is that I frequently travel on horseback when I’m fishing. I can ride in waders with no problem, but I don’t want to ride with an assembled rod (my horse is afraid of them, for one thing), and the prospect of rigging up my fly rod makes me pass up spots I’d like to try. Unless I’m willing to spend at least an hour at a spot, it just doesn’t seem worth it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Just down the road from Big Lake.  This one is a DAM which is German I believe. http://www.gapen.com/rodstelescoping.html#telescopingflyrod

Yes it is the DAM  ( Deutsche Angel Manufaktur) quite a nice rod actually, but it is far too expensive. It only costs about fifty dollars here. Somebody must be making good money on this stuff. TL MC

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I have a Palu’ telescoping fly rod. This is a quite expensive piece of gear (a present, actually). It can be locked in 4 different lengths.  It can be used with lines from 3 to 5. I have mixed feelings about it, although I have used it quite a lot in the recent past, more than my favorite 2 weight … It is a heavy sucker. When at full length (something like 12") it takes the wind out of you. When locked in the 2 shortest positions, it does not feel that heavy. I had problems with the guides, which are somewhat fragile. When used at its shortest length, it has the feel of a full-flex rod. When used at its longest length, it feels like a super-fast tip-flex rod. Its pros: the control on the line is amazing: mending, really high sticking etc. … super rod on spring creeks ! With a 5 weight line, it is a real shotgun. You can choose the length that is most appropriate for the current fishing conditions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone still make "telescoping" fly rods, or is there anywhere I can get one of those old steel ones? I don’t expect it to be a great rod — just barely serviceable would do. A web search shows that Gatti makes a telescoping line of graphite rods, but they cost a fortune. The reason I want one is that I frequently travel on horseback when I’m fishing. I can ride in waders with no problem, but I don’t want to ride with an assembled rod (my horse is afraid of them, for one thing), and the prospect of rigging up my fly rod makes me pass up spots I’d like to try. Unless I’m willing to spend at least an hour at a spot, it just doesn’t seem worth it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I can find Shakespeare telescoping spinning rods, but not fly rods. I get the impression they don’t make them any more.

Maybe you need some dapping rods?  I don’t know where he got them but my father-in-law has two telescopic rods that he claims are carp rods but they have gossamer tips which seem like the equivalent to a 2 wt fly rod. They are about 20" when stowed and 14′ when extended.  They have no guides.  It’s like a giant cane pole.   Mu

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Maybe you need some dapping rods?  I don’t know where he got them but my father-in-law has two telescopic rods that he claims are carp rods but they have gossamer tips which seem like the equivalent to a 2 wt fly rod. They are about 20" when stowed and 14′ when extended.  They have no guides.  It’s like a giant cane pole.

Funny you should mention that. I’m buying a 17′ telescoping dapping rod from Mike Connor. Mike was also kind enough to order a German-made telescoping fly rod for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Still think you need to just train the damn horse…. <g Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you need some dapping rods?  I don’t know where he got them but my father-in-law has two telescopic rods that he claims are carp rods but they have gossamer tips which seem like the equivalent to a 2 wt fly rod. They are about 20" when stowed and 14′ when extended.  They have no guides.  It’s like a giant cane pole. Funny you should mention that. I’m buying a 17′ telescoping dapping rod from Mike Connor. Mike was also kind enough to order a German-made telescoping fly rod for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

Awhile ago I posted a question about using horses for flyfishing (for riding to the spots, not for materials), and got some helpful replies. Well, I’m gonna do it. I found a place to pasture a horse about five miles from Stanley, for $35 a month! I can’t imagine what it would cost me to keep a horse in Menlo Park, CA. It would be a choice between that and sending my kids to college. It’s a beautiful pasture on 40 acres owned by a crusty oldimer who used to live in my cabin way back when. I think he’ll show this greenhorn the ropes. His place is right at the foot of the Sawtooths, next to some beautiful country with high lakes. I’ve found I’m too old to hump my gear up to the high country. I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO As the "bank" side of a four horse stable for my daughter I got a tremendous laugh out of your post!! Thanks for the moments of "unbridled" (to make a poor horse pun) laughter – horse laughter even. You have made my day brighter! The down side is that if you think   " I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. " is a realistic budget for

messin’ with horses you got "anuther think" coming. They can get pretty expensive – and I didn’t see any mention of YOUR medical bills Best of luck, but it sounds like someone offered to "git chew inna horse bidness right". GB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awhile ago I posted a question about using horses for flyfishing (for riding to the spots, not for materials), and got some helpful replies. Well, I’m gonna do it. I found a place to pasture a horse about five miles from Stanley, for $35 a month! I can’t imagine what it would cost me to keep a horse in Menlo Park, CA. It would be a choice between that and sending my kids to college. It’s a beautiful pasture on 40 acres owned by a crusty oldimer who used to live in my cabin way back when. I think he’ll show this greenhorn the ropes. His place is right at the foot of the Sawtooths, next to some beautiful country with high lakes. I’ve found I’m too old to hump my gear up to the high country. I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me. Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what?

Doesn’t everybody take their horse to the hairdresser and get it manicured?!?! You must not have cared for your horse if you didn’t call the vet everytime it farted, coughed or sneezed because those are signs of serious illness! Especially the farting "Doc, I just don’t know what to do.  My horse keeps breaking wind even at a standstill!" On a serious note, I would look to spend a little more than $1000 for a trailer and $500 for tack.  Make sure to check the floor of the trailer.  Not a good idea to buy a trailer then have to fix it.  And make sure to actually sit in the saddle and make sure it is comfortable (preferably on the intended horse). When I say comfortable I mean for the horse AND you.   Just some suggestions. Besides, what’s the worst that can happen?  Find out it isn’t going to work out and then sell everything? Warren

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Doesn’t everybody take their horse to the hairdresser and get it manicured?!?! You must not have cared for your horse if you didn’t call the vet everytime it farted, coughed or sneezed because those are signs of serious illness! Especially the farting "Doc, I just don’t know what to do.  My horse keeps breaking wind even at a standstill!" On a serious note, I would look to spend a little more than $1000 for a trailer and $500 for tack.  

Probably right. When I actually start buying things I tend to spend far more than my minimum estimates because I’d rather have nice things, as long as I get value for my money. Of course, I’ll have to reserve a few thousand for hairdressing and manicures. On a side note, lots of people ride Harley Davidson motorcycles around here. I’ve had a few bikes and I’ve always wanted a Harley, so I was musing about getting one. Then I thought about the comparatively low cost of a horse and how many more hours of enjoyment I’d get out of it, and there was no contest. Probably after I get the horse I’ll start thinking about Harleys again. Make sure to check the floor of the trailer.  Not a good idea to buy a trailer then have to fix it.  And make sure to actually sit in the saddle and make sure it is comfortable (preferably on the intended horse). When I say comfortable I mean for the horse AND you.   Just some suggestions.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, WFin66. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all – I couldn’t help myself… I hope RW dosen’t take it as a flame – wasn’t meant that way. On the other hand, when he mentioned those "pocket change" items – maybe he has BIG POCKETS and LOTS OF CHANGE!! $2000 for a horse and $1000 for a trailer. Do you expect shots, shoeing, and so on to be significant compared to that? Perhaps unlike your daughters, I’m not real sentimental about animals (except for my Golden Retriever). If I were looking at a bottomless pit of medical expenses for an animal I’d cut my losses. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen

I’ll do that. The "pocket change" phrase was hyberbole. BTW, I’m not merely speculating. Like everything I do that requires significant outlays of cash, I’ve been looking into it pretty carefully. I’ve long wanted a horse or two, but having them at my California residence would be an absurd waste of money — something for billionares in Woodside. Here in Idaho it looks like a bargain, plus I’d be pasturing them right next to some great country. Most enjoyable things require some money (at least, the things I enjoy), but I’m no sucker, which you implied I was, and which frankly pissed me off. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Gee RW, as I mentioned before, my comments were NOT made to, as you say it "piss you off", but I DID find a GREAT deal of humor in your original thesis. This message sounds much more rational, as though you are now considering the big picture. I too enjoy the horses. I have liked them for years and only bought some in the past few years. We were terribly naive when we got started (we actually thought ONE bale of hay was significant!! – now we buy *hundreds* of bales in one trip). No, we do not go to the horseyhairdresser, but we DO take VERY good care of ALL our animals. Perhaps I was too flip in my original response to the group. I truly would not want to see anyone have a bad horse experience and it sounded like that is where you were headed. So sorry I hurt your feelings! Glen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen I’ll do that. The "pocket change" phrase was hyberbole. BTW, I’m not merely speculating. Like everything I do that requires significant outlays of cash, I’ve been looking into it pretty carefully. I’ve long wanted a horse or two, but having them at my California residence would be an absurd waste of money — something for billionares in Woodside. Here in Idaho it looks like a bargain, plus I’d be pasturing them right next to some great country. Most enjoyable things require some money (at least, the things I enjoy), but I’m no sucker, which you implied I was, and which frankly pissed me off. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Perhaps I was too flip in my original response to the group. <

Pretty hard to be *too* flip!  <g

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RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me.  Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what? — Levi I have been through some terrible things in my life – some of which actually happened.  –Mark Twain

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RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Hey! Attributions are in order – lest you be accused of plagiarizing the best line that Chill Wills ever delivered… /daytripper (lessee who remembers…)

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RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me.  Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what?

Ha! Good one, Levi. I can just picture his daughters’ horses with little ribbon curliques in their manes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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To all – I couldn’t help myself… I hope RW dosen’t take it as a flame – wasn’t meant that way. On the other hand, when he mentioned those "pocket change" items – maybe he has BIG POCKETS and LOTS OF CHANGE!!

$2000 for a horse and $1000 for a trailer. Do you expect shots, shoeing, and so on to be significant compared to that? Perhaps unlike your daughters, I’m not real sentimental about animals (except for my Golden Retriever). If I were looking at a bottomless pit of medical expenses for an animal I’d cut my losses. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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The immortal "Dr. Strangelove", of course. That was Slim Pickins. My favorite Chill Wills movie was probably "The Rounders" (unless you count the "Over the Hill Gang" TV stuff, that was great).

On the other hand, Slim Pickens DID deliver that line in a most artful fashion in Dr. Strangelove and in one of the most memorable scenes in movie history. Wolfgang (Whose practice in ducking and covering still serves him well to this day)

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Question:

Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Bill: By the way, I am totally satisfied with Orvis Battenkill 7/8 for my summer steelhead fishing (I use a 10 foot 7 weight rod). It can handle any steelhead under 20 pounds; I have never hooked bigger ones (Well, I might have, then they all broke off). And it is very affordable. Now I need to replace my Lamson LP-7, which I have used with a 15 foot Spey rod. I lost two hot steelhead last spring because the Lamson went free spooling. Do you think Battenkill 10/11 is a good replacement? It needs to hold at least 150 yards of 30 pound backing with a 80 feet 10 weight DT line. Shinji on the Sky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

I’ve recently decided that I need to switch to fly fishing gear to catch the small specks that live in the beaver ponds and streams around my place in Ontario’s Haliburton Highlands.  From what information I have been able to gleam from the net I should get a 6 weight rod which will allow me to cast 5-7 weight line.  Is this correct or should I go for a lighter outfit.  The specks (brook trout) range from 3/4 to 3 lbs. Would a 6 weight rod be too light for 15 pound rainbows? Thanks for the help.

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A five weight will allow you to toss streamers while facilitating delicate presentation of small dry flies.  Lighter rods (2, 3, or 4 weight) will be more delicate, but they will not do as well as the five weight when you want to toss a heavy streamer. Do not mess around with line weights that are different from the recommended weight.  That is, if you get a five weight then use five weight lines.  Once your experience grows and your tastes develop, you may want to over- or underline your rod.  Until you are familiar with the feel of the recommended weight though, you are more likely to make your life difficult than to make a clever substitution. What you may want to do, however, is to get to different lines for your rod.  A nice combination would be a gently tapered line for flicking dry flies, and an aggressively tapered line for use with streamers or when it is windy. Six inch brookies are so different from lunker rainbows, that it would be hard to find tackle that is well suited to both.  Get a nice Brookie rod, and then mutter to yourself for a year before buying a big rainbow rod. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve recently decided that I need to switch to fly fishing gear to catch the small specks that live in the beaver ponds and streams around my place in Ontario’s Haliburton Highlands.  From what information I have been able to gleam from the net I should get a 6 weight rod which will allow me to cast 5-7 weight line.  Is this correct or should I go for a lighter outfit.  The specks (brook trout) range from 3/4 to 3 lbs. Would a 6 weight rod be too light for 15 pound rainbows? Thanks for the help.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …while this was sound advice beware of the impression that all the problems you may have starting out is due to the lower cost equipment you purchased. No matter how much is spent on the rod everyone has to learn how to cast. In my experience even lower cost rods are fine for this – often their ’slower’ characteristics are more forgiving to the beginner. While the line is the most important part of the tackle – many of the lower priced lines available – ie the Sci Anglers Aircel lines, are quite alright. Basically the same line they sold for 2x the price a decade or two ago. But beware cheap off brands, particulary level lines. If the line has no brand name on it and you can’t detect it getting thicker as you move up the tip several feet, you should throw it away or keep it for trolling. Ralph H

Ralph has some good points,especially about avoiding level lines.  They are a total waste of money, plus cause casting problems and bad casting habits that take years to get rid of.  The less expensive Orvis Clearwater lines, and the SA beginner lines actually make casting easier for novices because of their short front taper design.  They turns over flys more easily.  The sacrifice delicacy in doing so, but usually a novice’s casting skills aren’t too delicate anyway and they help the cast extend.  As your skills improve, you will probably want to buy a better line before you wear one of these out. While some people have a tough time learning on a fast action or tip-flex rod, I’d hesitate to recommend a full-flex (soft action) rod for a beginner. In 1987 as we started changing the rods in the Orvis West Coast Schools from the full-flex Superfine Limestone Special to the mid-flex "Western Series Spring Creek" we had both types available for a while for our students.  Students would race to get the Western Series rods because they were easier to cast without throwing tailing loops.  Shortly thereafter we replaced all the full flex rods with the Western Series.  I should note we teach a forearm based stroke in our casting programs (both Orvis WC and my own schools) which works very well with this type of rod.  When people first start out the most common mistake is to use too much wrist often snapping it in mid stroke which almost ivariably overdrives the tip and causes tailing loops.  The mid to tip flex rods eliminate a lot of this problem because it is harder to overdrive the tip with this kind of design.  It can still be done, but is a more forgiving (of mistakes) action for beginners. Still, you need to cast the rods to see which ones you like.                            Good Luck,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

I’m very, very new to fly fishing, and if nothing else, the people on this newsgroup have been very friendly in sharing information for a beginner. So, I went to our local fly shop, and was browsing around, and I saw something that floored me….the rods they were selling were in the $300 and up range… Now, I bought a fly rod and reel combo, that came with line, backing, leader, and a few flies for less than $60.00. What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?  (Other than broke. <grin)  What makes those rods that much more valuable? Thanks, Monte P.S. To reply via email, remove the ".dot" from my email address.

Response:

I’m very, very new to fly fishing, and if nothing else, the people on this newsgroup have been very friendly in sharing information for a beginner. So, I went to our local fly shop, and was browsing around, and I saw something that floored me….the rods they were selling were in the $300 and up range… Now, I bought a fly rod and reel combo, that came with line, backing, leader, and a few flies for less than $60.00. What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?  (Other than broke. <grin)  What makes those rods that much more valuable?

If you are new, next to nothing.  At first, you probably won’t be able to tell the difference between a $60 outfit and a $500 rod.  Take your outfit out, fish with it, beat it up, make mistakes, break a tip, slip on a rock and break the handle off the reel (done that), but go fishing.  In a year or so, go to a fly shop and cast various rods once you’ve got the hang of things. If you can tell the difference and like the difference buy what you can afford.  If you can’t tell the difference or don’t like the difference stick with what you have or buy another one. I started out with a $15 rod/reel combo.  It cast like a broomstick, but it was what I could afford and caught fish. When I actually had money, I knew how to cast and could feel the difference in the actions of various rods and bought a reasonable quality rod/reel.  Plus when I fell on that rock and busted my reel I didn’t worry about it (much). My $0.02,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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Well the feel of the rod and its ability to case by improving transfer of energy to the line.  Oh I almost forgot the most important part, to demonstrate your dedication to the sport by showing others that you sent a reasonable sum of cash.  The person who spent the most has the best zen in fly fishing the rest is just for fun.  So I suggest that you peal the name off your rod and turn your reel in a lath and tell folks it is a two grand custom rig from Scotland this will impress them and the fish.  Or you could spend your time fishing and simply enjoying your surroundings and the sport.   good luck and get out and spend or fish. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m very, very new to fly fishing, and if nothing else, the people on this newsgroup have been very friendly in sharing information for a beginner. So, I went to our local fly shop, and was browsing around, and I saw something that floored me….the rods they were selling were in the $300 and up range… Now, I bought a fly rod and reel combo, that came with line, backing, leader, and a few flies for less than $60.00. What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?  (Other than broke. <grin)  What makes those rods that much more valuable? Thanks, Monte P.S. To reply via email, remove the ".dot" from my email address.

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Monte Porche wrote [snip] Now, I bought a fly rod and reel combo, that came with line, backing, leader, and a few flies for less than $60.00. What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?  (Other than broke. <grin)  What makes those rods that much more valuable?

My guess is you’re probably right in going with the less expensive outfit to begin with.  I think you have to flyfish for awhile before you can start to appreciate some of the performance advantages of a more expensive rod. After you’ve gotten to the point where your casting effectively (not necessarily great … but effectively), try finding some fishing buddies who’ll let you try a few casts with their more expensive rods … or see if the flyshop you frequent will let you try casting a few of the rods they sell.  You may find some will perform better (then again, maybe not).  Rod speed is a factor that is important to many people – this refers to speed of casting movement which most "naturally" optimizes the cast for a particular rod.  Some people like fast rods, some like slow ones, it’s a matter of personal preference.  It’s also an issue you probably shouldn’t worry about until you have some experience … learn how to deal with the rod you have and you’ll be better able to feel the differences in performance of other rods. Also, these days, many of the more expensive rods come with a lifetime, no-questions-asked guarantee.  What this really means is that part of the price you pay is really group benefit rod insurance.  (If you fish a lot, you’ll probably make a claim sooner or later yourself!). —                                                       -dnc-

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All of the replies so far have been good. Heres my addition: The difference between low cost vs higher cost is nearly always a direct relationship between low quality vs. better quality, sophistication and performance. If you had just started driving (let’s say), perhaps you would never have realized that a Ferrari F355 could be so much more enjoyable than a Toyota Tercel (no offense intended, Tercel owners).  They both serve the same basic transportation purpose. Yet if you had started with the Ferrari, you might have said it’s "Hey it’s too twitchy, too hard to press in the clutch pedal thing, and when I press the accelerator the car goes wild! Nobody would wanna drive this!" The point is it’s better off starting with the basics. You’ve started out fine. Have fun. Don M. J.Kennedy Fisherto a Loomisto a Winstonto a W. Powellto a ??

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Don M. made the analogy of expensive flyrods/cheap flyrods to cheap cars/sports cars.  My question is this – Will a Winston or a Thomas & Thomas get you laid? Pete C

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If so, I’ve got to get me one of those. Dana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don M. made the analogy of expensive flyrods/cheap flyrods to cheap cars/sports cars.  My question is this – Will a Winston or a Thomas & Thomas get you laid? Pete C

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Don M. made the analogy of expensive flyrods/cheap flyrods to cheap cars/sports cars.  My question is this – Will a Winston or a Thomas & Thomas get you laid? Pete C

It’s not how expensive your rod is, it’s what you do with it that counts.  :-)      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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try finding some fishing buddies who’ll let you try a few casts with their more expensive rods … or see if the flyshop you frequent will let you try casting a few of the rods they sell.  You may find some will perform better (then again, maybe not).

Don’t do this!!! If you do you may end up in the same boat with the rest of us. A poor flyfisherman with alot of snazzy tackle and a wife who shakes her head with alarming frequency; as they say ignorance is bliss. Of course I never follow my own advice either. T.G. Mittler

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: If you had just started driving (let’s say), perhaps you would never have : realized that a Ferrari F355 could be so much more enjoyable than a Toyota : Tercel (no offense intended, Tercel owners).  They both serve the same basic : transportation purpose. Yet if you had started with the Ferrari, you might have : said it’s "Hey it’s too twitchy, too hard to press in the clutch pedal thing, : and when I press the accelerator the car goes wild! Nobody would wanna drive : this!" I understand the point ArtDrectr is making and for many, it probably works.  But not for me, and here is why.  Automobiles are sophisticated pieces of machinery and involve many parts that must work together. Significant design and engineering is required and many, many decisions made along the way to the market.   A graphite rod is very different.  It has a couple of numbers that characterize the performance and it is not difficult to change these numbers to make a rod.  For example, look at catalogs or talk to experienced fisherfolk… they will tell you a particular rod is soft or stiff, or at most describe 3 different types of flex.  A second factor is the weight, but that is about it.  That’s really all that matters.  (Well, durability too, but the guarantee should cover that.) As you get more experienced, you might move into a personal preference for a particular rod and if it matters much to you, spend the money.  For now, you done good with the cheap outfit.  As you gain experience, take the opportunity to try every rod you can, and see if you prefer other rods.  I suspect you will find rods that might be a bit less stiff than your current rod and you will definitely find rods that weigh less.  Pay attention to these things, but trust your judgement.  Your initial suspicions are right on. And by all means, send your kids to a good school before you spend your extra cash on expensive rods.  That is something that really makes a difference. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Don M. made the analogy of expensive flyrods/cheap flyrods to cheap cars/sports cars.  My question is this – Will a Winston or a Thomas & Thomas get you laid? Pete C

        maybe not; but you’ll feel like it’s happenin when you lay out line with either one.         a. wayne harrison

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What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?

The extra $250 gets you a guarantee.  Slam the tip in the car door and they will replace it.  I buy blanks and build my own rods, its a little cheaper, sometimes still get the guarantee,  put the same grip on all my rods (everythng must have the Fenwick style).  Its pretty easy once you get the hang of it, and its a good way to spend the off season. I’d fish the $60 outfit until the thing falls apart.  I’ve got more rods than you can swing a stick at and I always use the same two.  One of them is the first rod I built.  Good Luck. Patrick  

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: : What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get : me? : The extra $250 gets you a guarantee.  Slam the tip in the car door and they : will replace it.   Redington offers a replacement guarantee for a little over $100 complete, $70 blank. The 5-6 wt. is a fine rod. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m very, very new to fly fishing, So, I went to our local fly shop, and was browsing around, and I saw something that floored me….the rods they were selling were in the $300 and up range… Now, I bought a fly rod and reel combo, that came with line, backing, leader, and a few flies for less than $60.00. What, exactly, does the extra $250.00 or more for a rod get me?   Hi Monte, One of the key things to keep in mind is that if you can’t tell the difference, it doesn’t make any difference to you. By the same token, junk is junk and a waste of money, *time* and *effort*, no matter how cheap it is.  A lot of folks start fly fishing buying the cheapest stuff they can find, slap it together, and try to make it work.  I did the same thing and spent 2 1/2 frustrating years trying to make a piece of junk work that just plane wouldn’t – it was bad equipment.

…while this was sound advice beware of the impression that all the problems you may have starting out is due to the lower cost equipment you purchased. No matter how much is spent on the rod everyone has to learn how to cast. In my experience even lower cost rods are fine for this – often their ’slower’ characteristics are more forgiving to the beginner. While the line is the most important part of the tackle – many of the lower priced lines available – ie the Sci Anglers Aircel lines, are quite alright. Basically the same line they sold for 2x the price a decade or two ago. But beware cheap off brands, particulary level lines. If the line has no brand name on it and you can’t detect it getting thicker as you move up the tip several feet, you should throw it away or keep it for trolling. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

How are the fly fishing conditions on the Kern, above and below Lake Isabella? Don

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don’t expect much,  unless recently planted, or unless you hike in above Johnsondale to the Forks of the Kern.  Heavily fished, water too warm in summer for trout.  poor natural replenishment of native trout– many squawfish.  Can fish ok in November

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Question:

what is the best way to clean line?  I use Wilson Creek the night before I go Fishing.  I can not handle my line not flowing through the rod when I am mending a drift.  What do other people do to clean line?

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what is the best way to clean line?  I use Wilson Creek the night before I go Fishing.  I can not handle my line not flowing through the rod when I am mending a drift.  What do other people do to clean line?

Unfortunately, I don’t clean my lines as often as I should.  When they no longer fit through the guides, I know I’ve got too much crud on them. Seriously, the cheapest way to actually clean a fly line (in my opinion) is to wash it in a tub with soapy water.  Then, rinse in clean water and wipe dry.  That deals with the cleaning issue.  Keeping a line conditioned is another matter.  I have purchased a lot of lines over the years and have a desk drawer full of the line conditioners that come with the fly lines.  I use these for the most part…just because I have them, they work and I haven’t found a need to purchase anything else.  I’ve also used Armor All (sp??) on lines at times and it seems to work…but I’ve not checked with any of the line manufacturers about it.  Perhaps someone can tell me if I’m doing any damage to the lines with it.  It sure helps with my shooting line in terms of decreasing friction and adding to the length of my casts. Barry Brown

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   I like Bon Ami, a sponge and a bucket of warm water. When the line is dry run some Russ Peaks over it. Like new till it gets dirty again.     On the water I use those abrasive pads sold by SA fo rcleaning lines. They’re great for a couple of times then they get all gunky.    -Ralph what is the best way to clean line?  I use Wilson Creek the night before I go Fishing.  I can not handle my line not flowing through the rod when I am mending a drift.  What do other people do to clean line?

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

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what is the best way to clean line?  I use Wilson Creek the night before I go Fishing.  I can not handle my line not flowing through the rod when I am mending a drift.  What do other people do to clean line?

By default, I use Glide.  It’s all the two local shops sell. Does anyone still sell the "Greased Lightening" line cleaner?  I don’t even see it in the catalogs anymore.

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I have been using that Scientific Anglers stuff.  It has a small cleaning pad and then some goop to put on the line.  It seems to work very well although the cleaning pads get dirty very quickly.  BTW, the Orvis line cleaning kit is exactly the same as the Scientific Anglers one. MikeH

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what is the best way to clean line?  I use Wilson Creek the night before I go Fishing.  I can not handle my line not flowing through the rod when I am mending a drift.  What do other people do to clean line? By default, I use Glide.  It’s all the two local shops sell. Does anyone still sell the "Greased Lightening" line cleaner?  I don’t even see it in the catalogs anymore.

There is some new stuff by Tiemco that is really slick. Russ Peak line dressing has been popular for years. Many use Mucilin paste. I would first wash the line in mild soap, Ivory liquid, and dry it, if it is really dirty. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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(sp??) on lines at times and it seems to work…but I’ve not checked with any of the line manufacturers about it.  Perhaps someone can tell me if I’m doing any damage to the lines with it.  It sure helps with my shooting line in terms of decreasing friction and adding to the length of my casts. Barry Brown

Barry and Others: Armor-All is a repolymerizer, and yes, does well to protect your Vinyl lines.  However, it is an emulsion and the emulsifiers stay on the line. This allows the stuff to be washed off the line when you use it in water.  A better formulation is the Blue Coral non-aqueous stuff with "Fomblin".  It repells water and helps you line float like a cork. Nothing shoots line like this stuff and nothing lasts longer. Jason Beary

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Question:

I should have posted this a week ago, but was lazy. I fished Slate and Cedar Runs from 5/20-5/23.  Pine Creek had no action whatsoever — fish or fly-wise.  We had several decent (but still slow) days on Slate and Cedar.  Slate and Cedar had hatches of little yellow stoneflies everyday all day, a few Hendricksons early in the week, and then some grey caddises, March Browns, and especially Sulphurs (rotundas) later in the week.  Some big clusters of spinners in the evening, but no major spinner fall.  We had our best success, in descending order, with dry March Browns, dry little yellow stoneflies, Hendrickson, March Brown and sulphur emergers, and dry caddis patterns. The fishing was tough.  Even the old-timers were complaining — and bitterly so about Pine Creek, claiming it was the worst they’d seen in 30 years. The weather was fine.  The week before there was a half inch of snow; four days later it was 95 degrees.  But that week it was warm and mostly dry. I heard one story of a gutted Pine Creek fish with an empty stomach. The explanation was that the the streambed had been scoured by the floods and the hatches were shot.  Then I heard another story — a gutted Pine Creek fish with a stomach gorged with nymphs.  Both fish were caught by bait fisherman.  Having turned over a few rocks on the banks I can say that there are certainly nymphs in the water, although apparently the hatches have not been very impressive by local standards.  The few times I stopped at the river I saw few flies, littel bird activity and no surface feeding at all.  Water was still high as well.  Over the phone one of the guys at the tackle shop tried to sound encouraging to a propsective fisherman by metioning that a few chubs had been taken on dries. In sum, Slate and Cedar Runs were slow but worthwhile, though Pine Creek was dead. Genesee beer was excellent, as was Pabst and Schmitts — also Red Man. Oh, and if you want to go to a spooky bar, go to the Wagon Wheel in town of Camaal (sp?), just south of Slate Run.

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Pine Creek is excellent now:  24 fish evening on dries…sulphurs, grey foxes…only  a few more days to green and brown drake hatches!!!

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Pine Creek is excellent now:  24 fish evening on dries…sulphurs, grey foxes…only  a few more days to green and brown drake hatches!!!

Is this the same Pine Creek of the famous "Grand Canyon of the East?" If so, where do you fish in relation to the aforementioned "Grand Canyon?"

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Is this the same Pine Creek of the famous "Grand Canyon of the East?" If so, where do you fish in relation to the aforementioned "Grand Canyon?"

Yes, It is.  You can fish the Canyon itself; if you don’t mind hiking; canoeing it; or have a Mt. Bike and a tuff ass!  AVOID THE WEEKENDS!

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Question:

A thirteen week break from the UK will do nicely thank you. Just send the return tickets for two. I’m undecided as to who to bring along, the queen mother is an excellent flyfisher but is not as sprightly as she used to be. An excellent talker though. I’ll ask Diana if she’s free.                                                       Dave Tait. writes I’m interested in producing a fly fishing T.V. Show and  I need a female and male co-hosts.  Can anyone recommend a couple to  host a 13 week program that will be shot in a 13 days of fly fishing adventure that will cross the U.S and Canada?

– dave tait

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I will be humble but I would still have to recommend me and Cindy Crawford to host the show. I can fish and she can look good in front of the camera. Afterwards, well…..

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Look pal. If I cant get Lady Diana to come along I’ll be taking Cindy. Sorry to disapoint you! Dream on!! writes I will be humble but I would still have to recommend me and Cindy Crawford to host the show. I can fish and she can look good in front of the camera. Afterwards, well…..

– dave tait

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Crow) writes: How much do I have to pay you  for this gig??   8^)

Cindy Crawford and I will do it!!!  :)

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I’m interested in producing a fly fishing T.V. Show and  I need a female and male co-hosts.  Can anyone recommend a couple to  host a 13 week program that will be shot in a 13 days of fly fishing adventure that will cross the U.S and Canada?

Serious reply here: John Gierach and Joan Wulff. — Richard Nelson Spokane, Wa. "Its not that life is so short, its that death is sooo long."  

Question:

I routinely got "compression leaks" in the feet of my waders.  I switched to boot foot waders.  I’m not sure what to do about these leaks due to the the neoprene getting compressed to the point that the inner and outer skin touch each other.  I also would be interested in how to deal with these besides throwing them out.  Also how do you prevent the feet from getting compressed? Bill A.

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Neoprene compression is a problem because you stand on them all the time, and when neoprene gets compressed flat, it usually leaks.  Most companies who still use neoprene soles make them 5 mils thick to compensate for this and make them last longer.  Many of these companies will replace the foot on your waders for around $60.  Orvis uses Hypalon foam on the feet which is s foam version of the same stuff Zodiac boats are made out of, doesn’t need the extra bulk, and doesn’t suffer from this compression problem.  In fact that is the biggest reason they can offer their 4 year warranty on their waders without eating a bunch of waders.  Many other companies have followed suit, and from personal experience I highly recommend waders with Hypalon soles.  Keep repairing yours as long as is practical, but next time get waders with Hypalon soles for more durability. Dan Gracia Schools Coordinator Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Bill, Waders with serious compression leaks in the feet can only be salvaged by sending them back to the manufacturer to have the foot portion of the wader replaced.  If you choose not to go this route, consider recycling the old waders before you throw them out.  With a razor knife you can cut up portions of the old waders to make gravel guards, knee pads, a butt pad, mouse pads for all your family…  Your question regarding prevention of compression leaks prompted me to examine the feet of my own waders. I’m 230 lbs (lots of compression!) and found some areas showing compression on 3 year old waders.  Without knowing what brand of wader you have or how often you use them, I’m not sure how to answer your question regarding prevention of compression.  I do know that all neoprene materials are not equal and the better materials are more resistant to compression.   Best wishes, Clay

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:  Also how do you prevent the : feet from getting compressed? : Bill A. Bill,  Fill your pockets with helium before heading off to     your favorite pool.  That should reduce the compression on both your wader feet and your socks! :^) Charley

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Are you suggesting loosing a few pounds might help? Bill A.

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: Are you suggesting loosing a few pounds might help? : Bill A. Heaven’s, No, Bill.  Compensating, that’s the key.  Loosing weight has no glamour of tinkering.  Contriving to counter the weight is THE way to go! Charley

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: How about this.. instead of losing weight, or injecting helium, perhaps : why not cutt off your feet?  If you do this, then there will be no : compression on the soles… of course, this would lead to other problesm, : is guess. : edwin aguilar You could also just walk on your hands…..course, you may have to hold your breath while casting with your, er, ah, ….. foot, yeah, your foot! Charley

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  Contriving to counter the weight is THE way to go! Charley

I AGREE. How about this.. instead of losing weight, or injecting helium, perhaps why not cutt off your feet?  If you do this, then there will be no compression on the soles… of course, this would lead to other problesm, is guess. edwin aguilar

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Thanks, Robert Yee

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        Coat the effected area with Simms Seal. This is a brown or blue urethane water-based emulsion with dries so fast you can use the waders in a matter of minutes. It also adheres to the neoprene extremely well and stops leaks.

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Would appreciate suggestions on how to, and what material to use, in repairingneoprene waders that have developed a small leak in the toe, appears to be a Thanks, Robert Yee

A product called ‘Aquaseal’ was recommended to me at a local tackle shop (Mel Cotton’s in San Jose).  I used it to seal up a rather large hole in the sole of my neoprene waders.  It works really well — dries up as a thick, clear rubbery seal that appears perhaps tougher than the neoprene skin itself.  Works wonders!  (Takes probably 8-12 hours or so to dry). J Smith Sunnyvale, CA

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