Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something; there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Evil, Karen, eeevill (snicker) — Cliologist, Philanthropologist, Prothonotary Wibbler, Paleoconservative, Surface Warrior Squid

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore.  Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Dear Miss Christina, We are the greebling experts!  You can trust us kitties.  You can’t trust your poor weak hoomin eyes.  Believe me, they can get anywhere. They change shape, and get flat, or long or whatever they need to do to hide from you.  But we can see ‘em, hear ‘em and smell ‘em.  Please don’t take any risks with those horrid greeblings just waiting around to take over the house– or fly down your throat when you’re sleeping! Eeeww!  I get all creepy just thinking about it.  Believe me, I know it’s not yours or my mommy’s faults that you can’t see them. You just have to relax and let us do our jobs.  We’ll take care of everything. Love, Stinky Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Boyfriend is right. We have rug greeblings in the kitchen and the family room.  Sometimes I have to move the entire rug back to get to them. Meowmy will come home and find the kitchen rug upside down and in the dining room, but she doesn’t find greeblings. That’s because I ate them all. Boyfriend is doing the right thing. Samuel R. Thunderpaws The Great Greebling Hunter

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep.

When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

<SNIP Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

OH MY!!!! I’d compleetly foregotten about newspaper greeblings.  But, from the state of the last newspaper I brought in the house & left on the couch when I went to work…. I think the furballs got them all. —

Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Isn’t it funny how cats will always groom themselves nonchalantly whenever they do something stupid, my dogs just used to look embarrassed,but a cat makes sure you ‘know’ he did it on purpose That was a funny story Yowie, Wilson always chased the mop when he was little, it was especially funny when he chased the polish mop, he would skid everywhere.   Jean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings.

Ah now I see!  They’d be under the floorboards in my place though, and anywhere in the house when the gat needs to go the toilet, he does a loud howl and runs around like a maniac then does his business, odd creature!

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the- kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore. Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

L O Nina & Francesca I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Boyfriend, You are the dearest little fellow.  I send you special skritches from across the sea. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  

Is there ever! They belong to the family of under-the-rug greeblings, and Mere has been showing me how lacking Frank and Nikki have been lately in hunting them. It seems that they have let the greeblings multiply enormously, though Nikki does hunt them half-heartedly every now and then. However, Mere is on their case, and is taking care that they (the greeblings) keep on their toes. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are greeblings? Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Yes, and that’s why Nina was making it virtually impossible to put clean sheets on my bed, yesterday. =o) She was having a grand Greebling hunt. Melissa

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

If I ever see one, I’ll let you know.  (Actually, only cats can see these mysterious creatures).   MLB

Response:

What are greeblings?

Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings. — CATherine

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. — Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Response:

Question:

i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off . Are you ok with that? I always got the impression that you enjoyed your work and that it helped you.

it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to .

Response:

i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Are you ok with that? I always got the impression that you enjoyed your work and that it helped you.

Response:

i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Response:

x-no-archive: yes i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off . Are you serious? What did she say about the pills?

yes i’m seroius , she gave me the busperone or whatever it’s called , and i was too afraid to ask for the lorazapam , i’ll wait and trick my physician into those .

Response:

why would that be unfortunate for me ? besides , you’ve only got shakey nuts . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hm, i just checked and unfortunately for you, I also have nuts i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Response:

Hm, i just checked and unfortunately for you, I also have nuts

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Response:

i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Response:

ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Response:

it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to . I see, so what will you do? I was on buspar at one point a few years ago. Do you find it helps?

i’ll work when i feel like it , go back to college for some more addiction studies , part time . get alot of neglected work done around the ponderosa , by then it should be summer , and i’ll spend my days , lasily fly fishing down on the sakunka river , i’ll show you a picture of the river if you like .

Response:

it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to .

I see, so what will you do? I was on buspar at one point a few years ago. Do you find it helps?

Response:

Question:

Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Never made a mulberry fly, but I’ve eaten millions of the berries.  I imagine some coarse purple chenille or yarn wound around a hook to about 3/4" length and 1/2" or so diameter would do just fine.

Response:

"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits !

Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

Response:

"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ok guys, stay on topic, it’s "CARP" not "CRAP" <Gjim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

Response:

I usually fish yarn more than anything else. I’ve had suckers in a river so thick that they are bumpin into your waders, and you cannot even make a drift without snagging or picking up a sucker. Thats when I head to the white water. The steelhead like that heavy water, and the suckers usually will fall back in the slack water.       Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

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We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n.

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

Response:

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

That’s a great looking fish, Kent. Aren’t those big scales fabulous? Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

I bet landing that sucker was a blast.  How does a small farm/subdivision "pond" support several fish of that size? I have to assume that once they devour all the grass, fry are next on their menu…. do these ponds have any other fish left in them? jim

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Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Last week, I had one take a generic black wooly bugger just under the surface, sight casted to him just after sunset as they began rolling up on the surface.  Awesome fight for a 3-4lb fish in a restricted, snag-free channel.

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Jon Cook writes: Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

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Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Response:

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

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Two years ago the DNR stocked my local fishing hole with grass eating carp in an effort to control the grass/hydrilla. That’s another story…. Wednesday I planned to fish after work and talked my fishing buddy into joining me. He did not have anything with him so he would use one of my rods (Sage 5wt). We hit the water about 3 PM and the fishing was great, in about two hours we had hooked about 100 gills and crappie. Then he set the hook into what turned out to be about a 20 LB carp (my guess). I have been told by DNR that these damn things eat 6 times their body weight each day and grow like hell. I swear the thing was 3 feet long, I don’t remember ever catching a carp and had no idea what they fought like. It did not make any big runs, just short spurts and then unbelievable jumps like a salmon or trout. It made one run directly under the boat and jumped on the other side, at this point his rod (my Sage) was half submerged and bent under the boat, all I could do was yell "Let it run and damn it, don’t break my rod". It made one more beautiful jump and straightened the hook. He was using 4LB tippet with a #12 wooly. Ugly fish but a sight to see. We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n. Gawd, those leaps were spectacular jim

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Question:

 ___  Snipped notice: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week. Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

_____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week.   Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions.   As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which no other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Question:

Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John        John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

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Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hell in GA I’d skip the neoprene and go for the Gortex.  I would think that the heat would be more of a problem than the cold.  5mm are very very warm, Xmas of 95, I was in a river with 6" of ice and was comfortable.  They’d probably cook you in Dixie!!! jg

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Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)?

I’ve been using 3mm Simms neoprenes for several years now.  They have remained warm and flexible.  Whatever brand you buy, spend a little more than you can afford. Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other?

Pinholes don’t seem to be the main problem, rather leaks at seams, especially when you do a lot of tubing in them. What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor.

3mm keep me good and warm, but early in the season I do wear some Thermax bibs.  During warm season a pair of light thermal pants or silks will help keep you from getting too clammy from sweat.  I got the thinner neoprenes because I figure I can always add extra insulation when it’s cold, but you can’t reduce the insulation of a 5mm wader when it’s hot. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Even in high summer tubing gets cold, because all the heat eventually gets leeched away, no matter what you’re wearing.  I find that I can last about 3-4 hours at a stretch in 50 degree water before I have to get out and warm up and take a leak.  Only problem I’ve had with neoprenes in my tube is some slight leaking as the seams stretch because I sit in the tube, and the slight chaffing on the upper thigh where the neoprene rubs against the material of the tube. Anglerboy

Response:

This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hi John, The 3 mil waders will do everything you want them to down to water temperatures of ~42.  Usually below 42 degrees I have to put some mid weight synthetic longs on underneath them.  Above that I use the lightweight synthetic longs to keep any moisture off my skin and keep it between my longs and the waders.  The 3 mil neoprenes will give you the flexibility  you want and the comfort while float tubing.  Take a llok at the Orvis Hi-back 3mil neoprenes ($225) or the bare bones version the Clearwater neoprenes ($98). If it is usually hot most of the time you are fishing, you should check out the breathable waders.  Orvis makes two models.  The No-Sweat wader for $305 which feature a brushed micro-fiber outer fabric, knee pads, and a floating heel (easier to fit various shoe sizes)on the neoprene foot.  They just came out this year with the Clearwater No-Sweat waders for $165.  They are made out of a tightly woven nylon outer fabric, have the standard type of neoprene foot and no knee pads.  Not quite as durable as the premium No-Sweats, but covered with the same guarantee (4 years) and about 1/2 the price of other breathable waders.  Keep in mind that the breathable waders offer no insulation of their own and they don’t stretch.  As long as you layer accordingly underneath for colder weather they are fine, and nothing is more comfortable on a hot day.                          Hope this helps,                                  Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John       John Carney         Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Hi John, The 3mm neoprene is the standard in the industry with 5mm being more durable, warmer and less flexible. For serious float-tubers, 5mm will hold up longer. Gor-Tex is coming on very strong, as this will be the year of the breathable Gor-Tex wader. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I have been fishing with Orvis Clearwater Gortex waders this year in Minnesota.  Yesterday I went out and it was 15 degrees.  I wore my waders with fleece pants and long underwear.  It was toasty.  In the summer I know they will be a thosand times more comfortable than the 2mm neoprenes I had before. Mike H

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To this thread specifically. I have used Body Glove 5mm’s for the last 8 years. Got some cheap Hodgman 3mm’s for Christmas.   Wished I’d of had the 5mm’s on saturday.  Toes got cold for the first time in 8 years.  They were dry, but cold. Summer heat, the 3s’ll be a godsend. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Tara: I am also a fly tyer. What sort of info are you looking for? I believe we have an unfair advantage against the non-stitching tyers — we have so much more in the way of dexterity. Females’ fingers are also so much smaller than males’, so the small hooks and feathers are easier for us to manipulate. We also have experience in handling fibers, in coordinating colors, and combining textures. I’ve been tying for about 15 years now; been stitching for about 25. JulieAnn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m curious if any stitchers know anything about fly tying?  I’ve been interested in this for years, and lo and behold, my SO is an avid fisherman. I am also lurking in the rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, but it seems so male dominated, and you are all so friendly. Plus if any of you have tried it, you could give me the heads up in terms I understand. TIA Tara

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Tara: I’ve tried fly tying, and it was fun, but I never took it up as a hobby. I’m sure SO is thrilled when you express interest in fly tying. My SO’s fisherman roommates were deeply impressed to find out that I had tried fly tying, but they were even more impressed when I told them that one of my female friends from high school had taken it up as a hobby at the behest of her fisherman husband. I saw one of the guys giving his fianc

Question:

I am going to be in Islamorada, FL for part of the week of November 20 and am interested in spending a day fishing the flats.  Can anyone recommend a good-quality guide who doesn’t charge a king’s ransom? MZ

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Stop at Bonefish Bob’s shop.  He is most helpful with questions.  Best ? guide- Jim Lopez phone at Marathon.  Expensive, tho.  Ask Bob. Regards, CLiff

Response:

Johnson’s out of Baldwin, MI used to guide down there. I don’t know if they still do but they would be able to offer someone’s name.

Response:

I just went bone fishing with Capt. Steve Impallomeni (305) 292-9837 . and had a wonderful day with him!  I also would suggest dealing with Capt. Jeffrey Cardenas of The Saltwater Angler (800) 223-1629 for bookings and information … they were the best help and friendliest people I dealt with in Florida! KStJ

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Question:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

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I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

PMD emergers are hot right now.

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Thankfully this high water misconception has curbed the number of ff’ers on the Provo lately.  This is nice as we’ve been catching anywhere from 5 to 10 fish an hour without too many neighbors.  The water is especially clear also, allowing you to see many of the fish.  This also makes for fish holding in very predictable places.  (ie slower deeper water)  The fly selection, now that’s the part that will make or break your day as well. Happy Trails and tattered flies. Curtis Fry FFFTWKISS!!!!

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast. PMD emergers are hot right now.

Mike,         Can you give me a description on the PMD emerger.  I dont know if I have         ever seen one before.         Thanks

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty).

I’m moving to Draper this month and have tried the Provo on several occasions.  The dirty water has perplexed me… I’m assuming it has to do with the releases from the dam upstream? With the road construction several years ago did the fishing change somewhat? If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

I want to try the upper section myself. Any advice about access etc.? Coming from an area where my favorite waters are 4 to 5 hrs away, I am indeed excited about living close to the Provo (and Green) Trust I will bump into you on the river some day.         Wherever you go…. There you will be.

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

The Provo is a wonderful river, but nymphs are your only hope.  However, you won’t have to worry about crowds until the 9-5 crowd gets out from work.  You won’t have *much* problem mornings or early afternoons, except for us lousy college students The weather will be hot.  Be prepared for some heat; I’d leave my neoprenes at home.  The river is also higher this year than it has been in the past, but since you are just coming for a vacation, that won’t matter to you, will it? best o’ luck, Jeff Windsor

Response:

Question:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone *does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Lyman Hughes                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know

a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone*does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people

need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Bravo! JL 8-Wt Editor

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To me, it does not matter whether you use an Orvis rod or a Diawa, all that really matters is whether you can catch "and release" fish!  Too many people get too esoteric about having the best equipment but why do you have to spend your all your money on equipment because Lefty Kreh has endorsed it?  I have some expensive equipment and I have cheap equipment and to tell you the truth, sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Remember, "A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!" Tight Lines! Mark

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Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.       In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

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Most people use the best equipment they can afford, since it is almost always more enjoyable to use than something cheaper.  Why don’t most serious flyfishers by cheap rods and/or lines?  There is a difference, and you know it, so why be so negative? BTW, what kind of rod and line do you use, and what kind of camera did you use professionally? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "The commonplace is only the self-constructed wall that separates us from the marvelous"  Tom Brown, Jr.

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Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it. BTW, Bass Pro has a good deal on some IM6 rods with a SA 2L reel for $179.00. I priced the reel elsewhere at $125.00. So its like getting an IM6 rod for $54.00.  I bought one last year when the combo sold for $169.00 and the rod is pretty nice casting (minor cosmetic imperfections in the varnishing and wrapping) My $0.02 Daern C. Valentine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it.

An experienced and honest angler will have to admit that a high-end rod, e.g., Scott, Sage, Winston, etc., just casts and "feels" better than an economy rod, e.g., Cabela’s, St. Croix, etc.  The latter rods can be great bargains, and there is no doubt that an accomplished fisher with a Cortland in hand will do better than a novice casting a T&T.  Clearly, technique is MUCH more important than equipment.  However, once you’ve reached a certain level of casting skill, you appreciate a well-made rod and it makes for a better fishing experience.  In addition, high-end rods just look nicer: There is more attention to design and they are finished better (as you point out, the rod you bought had "minor cosmetic imperfections").  For some people, like myself, this matters; for others, it may be totally irrelevant. There is no doubt that the markup on high-end rods is high.  But you have to consider that the production of many of these rods is extremely labor intensive.  Consider Scott, for example.  Scott matches tip sections to butt sections by hand, testing each butt with a variety of tips until the appropriate and desired  taper and flex pattern is achieved.  This is done for each rod individually. Many high-end rod companies (e.g., Sage) also put a lot of money into R&D trying to figure out what lengths, tapers, diameters, scrims, etc., are appropriate for various types of graphite and various line weights. All that said, it is certainly true that these rod companies know their market and are not shy about pricing their products. Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.  In addition, they are shorter.  Cost goes up nonlinearly with length because it is just a lot harder to make a straight 9 ft. blank that tapers from say, 1 cm to 2 mm, than to make an almost straight 7 ft. blank that tapers from 2 cm (or more on some of Cabela’s rods, e.g.) to 2 mm.  Put it this way:  You could do pretty well spin casting with your reel tied to a broom handle, but unless you are Lefty Kreh, you’d have a hell of a time getting more than a few feet of line out fly casting with such a rig. Finally, I’ll gladly take up "FlyFish887" on his casting bet for a day’s pay:  Just name the time and the place . . . TPM

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writes: Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.  In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

I’ll take that bet. What do you consider "worth a damned"?  Distance?   Accuracy? I have a 9ft 7wt I can cast a standard flyline so far the backing is hanging out of the tiptop. Or how about picking up a bass bug at about 45 feet and with one false cast hit within 12 inches of a target at 65 feet. In my present days as a professional photo lab technician I also know that any _professional_ photographer is going to use top of the line equipment because it is dependable, rugged and has quality optics. People use Canons, Nikons, Hasselbads, not Ricoh, Pentax and Mamiya-Sekor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.   This is all very nice but it’s not reflected in reality.  Take a close look   at blank vs finished rod prices in the Loomis catalogs, for instance, and   what comes through is that the majority of the differences in price between   spinning/casting and fly rods is in the rods and not the blanks themselves.     For example, look at several 9′ blanks and what happens to the final price   (these are GLoomis two-piece IMX rods):    Length      "Rating"    Blank price   Finished rod price      9′      6-10 lb line     $207            $330      9′      8-12 lb line     $214            $335      9′        6 weight       $171            $375      9′        7 weight       $182            $380   I think that the original poster was correct: there is a substantial premium   inherent in fly rod prices and it is not clear that there is a materials or   labor cost that warrants it.

These are interesting and useful data, but they cut both ways.  Your argument assumes that the blank prices are accurate reflections of production costs but that the finished rod prices are not.  If we assume that all costs reflect production costs plus a constant percentage markup (constant across rod types), the prices above indicate that spinning rods cost more to make (for a given length) but that fly rods cost more to finish.  If you are willing to question the increment from blank to finished rod for fly rods, why not also question the prices on blanks themselves.  Perhaps the markup is higher for spinning blanks than for fly rod blanks.  The real problem is that no one outside the company really knows what the production costs are and how items are priced for a given market. I’ll stick with my previous argument that the quality of the blank is much less important to spin fishing than to fly fishing, and hence, that comparing prices between spinning rods and fly rods is unfair.  However, I also strongly suspect that we fly fishers are not getting any bargains on premium rods. TPM

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Question:

Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole.

Steve, there is an article in a very recent issue of Western FlyFishing which discusses these rubber soles.  These soles have developed from rock climbing shoes.  From this one article they sound pretty good, if they are the same as the soles discussed in the article.  Keep in mind, too, according to the article, there is more research going on and improvements should be expected in the coming years. Good luck and good fishing! Bob Moss Landing, Ca.

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Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve — Steven Grainger          | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology           | 10 ELizabeth Drive       | Chelmsford, MA.          |

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots.  I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them.  Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Steve,         I have a pair of Danner wading boots that are fantastic.  they of course are felt soled and have tungston carbide tips imbedded in the boots.  The boots are made to last, of course besides replacing the felt soles once in a while.  I think the boots without the tungston carbide tips run about $121.95 and with the tips about $126.95.  This is more expensive then most others but I think the Danners will outlast all other boots on the market.  I also suggest the tungston carbide tips.  Their great on slippery rocks.  For myself wading boots are a must for any river wading.  Wading rivers can be tricky business and having the best equipment possible makes it that much more safe, at least thats what I tell my wife when I go buy some expensive new equipment…hehe.  Anyways if your interested in the Danners check around at places that sell Danner products.  Here in Portland, OR we have a Danner outlet store that sells seconds at good prices. (cosmetic flaws only).  If those don’t work I know Kaufmann’s Streamborn inc.(1-800-442-4359)  address; P.O. Box 23032  Portland, OR 97281-3032  has them.  Since I have my catalog out now, the upper part of the boot is made with bullet-proof vest material. Good Luck!  Cory

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Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks!

Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots.  I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them.  Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Steve, If you are concerned about those "slippery rocks" you really should consider a wading boot with studs. I have the Borger’s Ultimate wading boot with the felt/studded sole. I’ve had them for 4 years and haven’t slipped yet! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve — Steven Grainger          | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology           | 10 ELizabeth Drive       | Chelmsford, MA.          |

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A comparable boot to abv. is Gary Borger Ultimate wading boot made by weinbrunner(sp ?) with tungstin tips _ Iv’e used mine for three years over 300 days on strems in new england and they are still fine. carbide tips are very useful give better traction and outlast felt soles. I bought these boots from Dan Bailey’s in montanna but are available from

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absolutely, without question, the best wading boots on the market are the SIMMS Plasteks.  Reintroduced, after a couple of years absence, they’re the most rugged, comfortable, lightweight, fast drying boots on the market.

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<<SNIP Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve —

Hi Steve, I use the Orvis Battenkill Brogues with the carbide tipped steel studded felt soles ($115 with studded felts, $98 for felt soles). I typically use them about 100 days a year and they are great.  They have a good toe box, good heel box, high ankle pad, speed laces, foam padded under-sole, and a shank that is as stiff as the ones on my hiking boots.  Great support and little chance of a twisted ankle.  I typically hike 4 to 6 miles a day when fishing on my own (as opposed to teaching the schools) and my feet still feel good at the end of the day. Great boots for tough conditions. If you have narrow feet, these will be too wide for you and I’d recommend you check out the Orvis Rocky Mt. boot which is also available with studded felts ($89 with studded felts, $72 without).  The shank is not as stiff, but the boot shares most of the other features of the Battenkill Brogue at a lower price (wide feet won’t fit in these).                                                 Hope this helps,                                                           Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots.  I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them.  Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

From the looks of the Aqua Stealth boots in the catalog, they are the same as the Simms Freestones with the exception of the sole material.  Perhaps a retrofit is possible.  I also have the Simms and am quite happy with them. Joseph Iannazzone

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Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen:   Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks?   Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks?  Are these taken into consideration?   Thanks alot.                  Flyfishers do it with longer rods

It depends on the manufacturer.  Orvis sells their boots sized large, so if you wear a size 11 street shoe, buy a size 11 wading shoe.  There’s plenty of room for a std neoprene wader and wool socks. I have nothing to do with the company, other than owning a pair of their wading shoes. Sean Brennan (.std disclaimers)

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I checked around when I purchased my Simms Firehole wading shoes, and also when I bought a gift pair of Cabella’s for my son-in-law. (yes, it is nice to have a son-in-law who fishes!).  In both cases I was told that they were sized to accomodate the extra footware. I really love my Simms, though I don’t have experience with others to compare.  I have plenty of room for two pair of heavy socks.  However, I wade wet, so do not know how much extra room to allow for the neoprene. I bought boot size = my shoe size.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen:   Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks?   Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks?  Are these taken into consideration?   Thanks alot.                   Flyfishers do it with longer rods —                   Flyfishers do it with longer rods

I wear a 10.5 to 11 street shoe, depending on manufacturer.  I own a pair of stockingfoot Hodgeman waders and always wear 1pr cotton socks and 1pr wool socks inside them.  I bought a pair of Cabellas wading boots in a size 12 to wear over this settup and they fit great.  Looking at the other posts, I suggest you ask the sales person and try them out.  For mail order, any company worth ordering from will let you try them out and exchange sizes with no hassle.  Remember to keep the fit loose enough to fit lots of woolies in winter and still not compress the foam on that neoprene, but tight enough to give you sure footing on those shifty stream beds.  Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen:   Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks?   Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks?  Are these taken into consideration?   Thanks alot.                   Flyfishers do it with longer rods —                   Flyfishers do it with longer rods

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Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen:   Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks?   Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks?  Are these taken into consideration?   Thanks alot.

My size 10 neoprenes have a bigger boot than my size 10 camo waders. They are both LaCrosse. The camos are pretty tight with a thick pair of wools and an underliners, but the neos are fine. I’m a 9 1/2 D foot. You can also get Goretex foot liners for either of these. Before I lost one of mine, they were great.         /   V  V  V  V  V  V  V  /      King’s Computer Management, Inc.        <   0  0  0  0  0  0  0  (o   1633 NE Hwy 10      VVV              Y                 612-784-8042 (voice)                      VVV Heddon Lucky 13 leopard: the lure doesn’t catch fish, fish catch the lure. Opinions? I’m married. I am not allowed to have opinions.

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