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Florida Keys

Question:

I’m planning next year’s vacation in the Florida Keys.  I was there a few years ago.  We stayed at Boyd’s Campground on Stock Island, which is right next to Key West. That was a nice spot, but this time I’m thinking of camping in the middle of the islands.  Maybe somewhere around Marathon.  Does anyone know of a nice campground in that area?

Response:

Try Knights Key, it should be listed in the camping directories. I have never stayed there but stopped by and it didn’t look to bad. Good Luck Rambler

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning next year’s vacation in the Florida Keys.  I was there a few years ago.  We stayed at Boyd’s Campground on Stock Island, which is right next to Key West. That was a nice spot, but this time I’m thinking of camping in the middle of the islands.  Maybe somewhere around Marathon.  Does anyone know of a nice campground in that area?

Response:

Bahia Honda State Park is Beautiful. Get your reservations early though. http://www.bahiahondapark.com/ Adk Keith

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning next year’s vacation in the Florida Keys.  I was there a few years ago.  We stayed at Boyd’s Campground on Stock Island, which is right next to Key West. That was a nice spot, but this time I’m thinking of camping in the middle of the islands.  Maybe somewhere around Marathon.  Does anyone know of a nice campground in that area?

Response:

The KOA at Fiesta Key (Marathon) is nice. The waterfront sites are awesome. Especially at sunset. The interior sites are very narrow. Streetside slideouts would hit your neighbors RV. — Regards, Jim –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning next year’s vacation in the Florida Keys.  I was there a few years ago.  We stayed at Boyd’s Campground on Stock Island, which is right next to Key West. That was a nice spot, but this time I’m thinking of camping in the middle of the islands.  Maybe somewhere around Marathon.  Does anyone know of a nice campground in that area?

Response:

I’m thinking of camping in the middle of the islands.  Maybe somewhere around Marathon.  Does anyone know of a nice campground in that area?

Try John Pennacamp SP…nice with it’s own coral reef Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage/profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

Have stayed the past 3yrs at Sunshine Key resort–just over the 7mi bridge. Waterfront sites are nice, marina with boat dock right there, gas station right there, laundry, stuff for kids to do, movies, games etc. pool.  Park is pet friendly as well.

Response:

<< You may want to consider Jabour’s RV Park GB, That’s the first park I found that doesn’t give rates on their page.  Are we talking less than a hundred? Tom

Response:

I live in a great RV park in Fl. Inexpensive as I go 6mos on and off. I rented a car last Sept  instead of taking my MH as I was told it was hard to find a spot down there. Boy  was I glad I did. US1 from Homestead to Key West was the worst slowest drive I have ever taken :-( I’m not chicken either, I ‘v driven cross country in my MH with toad (even parked in downtown Houston). Try if you have a death wish!!  Hope I have done this right. This is my  first post

Response:

<< You may want to consider Jabour’s RV Park GB, That’s the first park I found that doesn’t give rates on their page.  Are we talking less than a hundred? Tom

<http://www.kwcamp.com/winter14+daystay.htm You have to dig a little <grin. HD in NY

Response:

That’s the first park I found that doesn’t give rates on their page.  Are we talking less than a hundred? Tom You have to dig a little <grin.

Actually, they aren’t as high as I’d expected. Location, location, location…<g GB in NC

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to the Keys but would like to visit sometime this winter. I would appreciate any opinions on the practicality of a winter visit in a 27 foot fifth wheel. Are there plenty of campgrounds? How horrible is the traffic? Should I pick a "base camp" somewhere out of the mainstream and then travel the rest of them or would I be OK dragging the fiver all the way down to Key West? Are campground prices outrageous during the winter? Etc. Appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Ken

Key West definitely is not a good place for a large rig.  Unless you are military, I understand there is only one campground available, and it is not pleasant. About 10 miles north of KW is the state park Bahia Honda.  If you can get a site, that would be an excellent base camp. See my 2000-2 journal. — Carl A. http://pages.prodigy.net/chainnj/Journal.htm

Response:

<< <http://www.kwcamp.com/winter14+daystay.htm You have to dig a little <grin. HD in NY Travel Trailer…$64.00  My hundred guess was a little high. Tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s the first park I found that doesn’t give rates on their page.  Are we talking less than a hundred? Tom You have to dig a little <grin. Actually, they aren’t as high as I’d expected. Location, location, location…<g GB in NC

Well, ya gotta realize, those were 14 day rates and they came from the discounted rates section. I think for regular rates you need to fill out the questionnaire. Just for giggles, I checked the discount rate for 1 to 3 days, it’s a bit different <grin. <http://www.kwcamp.com/winter1-3daystay.htm HD in NY

Response:

Two Christmas’ ago I checked and the price was $667.00 for one week, admittedly during the Christmas/New Year’s week.  Fortunately I qualify for military FAM camps and enjoyed a week’s stay at the Coast Guard station within walking distance to downtown at $9.00 per night. — Peace, Love and Serenity, Madeleine http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/madewar/ www.anticattic.com

: << You may want to consider Jabour’s RV Park : : GB, : : That’s the first park I found that doesn’t give rates on their page. Are we : talking less than a hundred? : : Tom :

Response:

just spent 4 days at jabours over christmas.  104 a night  all taxes and extra for the kids.  it’s basically just a parking lot with hookups.  but you’re paying for where it’s at, not what it looks like. b

Response:

I’ve never been to the Keys but would like to visit sometime this winter. I would appreciate any opinions on the practicality of a winter visit in a 27 foot fifth wheel. Are there plenty of campgrounds? How horrible is the traffic? Should I pick a "base camp" somewhere out of the mainstream and then travel the rest of them or would I be OK dragging the fiver all the way down to Key West? Are campground prices outrageous during the winter? Etc. Appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Ken — Beck Hopkins, KA9EFE  |  Red Cross & FEMA Disaster Workers

Response:

Are there plenty of campgrounds?

Some, yes; plenty, no. How horrible is the traffic?

It’s not nearly as bad driving from somewhere TO there as it is to find a parking place after you GET there. The streets are narrow and crowded, and real estate is at a premium, so very little of it is used for parking. BTW, the drive down from Miami is absolutely spectacular. You’ll cross countless bridges, some of which are quite long, and the views out over the ocean are something you will never forget. Take your time and enjoy the ride — you can’t hurry anyway because of the congestion and the low speed limits. Be warned: US 1 down the Keys is NOT an expressway. Should I pick a "base camp" somewhere out of the mainstream and then travel the rest of them or would I be OK dragging the fiver all the way down to Key West?

That depends on whether you want to hassle with parking every day when you drive into KW. (See above.) You may want to consider Jabour’s RV Park (you can find their web site with a Google search), which is in downtown KW and within walking distance of almost everything. That way you can park your rig and not have to drive again. It’s crowded and tucked into what looks like a back alley, but it’s a nice place and very well maintained (and safe). Note: You will pay dearly for this convenience, just like you will pay for anything you get in KW. OTOH, if you stay farther up the Keys you will also pay dearly in the hassle of finding a parking place every day when you get to KW. Either way you pay. Not to say it’s not worth it, just be ready for sticker shock. KW is not a cheap place to visit at any time of the year. Are campground prices outrageous during the winter? Etc.

They are "outrageous" (all things are relative) at any time, but worth it if you want to see KW. We’ve been there twice, some years ago, and will go again at some point when time permits. Appreciate any and all comments and suggestions.

You’re welcome. Drive safely. GB in NC

Response:

If you are eligible to use military facilities, NAS Key West has a campground on the Bay.  Take a taxi on base to KW proper and walk or rent a bike. As GDinNC says, watch your speed,  the Sheriff and Florida HP patrol and give tickets. RVC USMC (Ret)

I’ve never been to the Keys but would like to visit sometime this

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – traffic? ….." Appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Ken — Beck Hopkins, KA9EFE  |  Red Cross & FEMA Disaster Workers

Response:

The last time I was in the Keys, it was about $65- a night, and was not even Key West. — Ted Harris http://www.tedharris.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to the Keys but would like to visit sometime this winter. I would appreciate any opinions on the practicality of a winter visit in a 27 foot fifth wheel. Are there plenty of campgrounds? How horrible is the traffic? Should I pick a "base camp" somewhere out of the mainstream and then travel the rest of them or would I be OK dragging the fiver all the way down to Key West? Are campground prices outrageous during the winter? Etc. Appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Ken — Beck Hopkins, KA9EFE  |  Red Cross & FEMA Disaster Workers

Response:

… walk or rent a bike.

Good point. When we were there we didn’t move our camper at all, once we parked it on our "campsite" (I admit I’m using that term loosely — Jabour’s is not a traditional campground in the scenic, wooded sense <g). We walked everywhere we could, except for one afternoon when we rented a motorscooter and rode it to a couple of places that were too far to walk. That took care of everything we wanted to see on KW itself. Anything you want to see elsewhere on the Keys, you can see on your way down or back up. In fact, I’d suggest taking notes on the drive down and then you’ll know how much time (if any, depending on your interests) to allow for stops on the way back up. GB in NC

Response:

We walked everywhere we could, except for one afternoon when we rented a motorscooter and rode it to a couple of places that were too far to walk. That took care of everything we wanted to see on KW itself.

Don’t know if its still there, but you used to be able to get an all day ticket and get on and off the "Conch Train" one of those tourist trolly things.  That could save a little hoofing.  It’s a fun tour, too. It went past the cemetery which is the only one that lets you be buried with your pets. The chamber of commerce has an excellent walking tour, IIRC.   Janet The Road Princess (I only spell-check for profit) fix the return address, please

Response:

Yup, both are still available.  Walking tours are really great! RVC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We walked everywhere we could, except for one afternoon when we rented a motorscooter and rode it to a couple of places that were too far to walk. That took care of everything we wanted to see on KW itself. Don’t know if its still there, but you used to be able to get an all day ticket and get on and off the "Conch Train" one of those tourist trolly things. That could save a little hoofing.  It’s a fun tour, too. It went past the cemetery which is the only one that lets you be buried with your pets. The chamber of commerce has an excellent walking tour, IIRC. Janet The Road Princess (I only spell-check for profit) fix the return address, please

Response:

Yup, both are still available.  Walking tours are really great!

As are the sunset parties and the oysters! Janet The Road Princess (I only spell-check for profit) fix the return address, please

Response:

Blue Water Key RV resort about 15 miles from Key West is small (65 sites) quite with nice pool.  Reserve early, can be expensive.

Response:

Anyone know a good Keys campground for the Xmas Holidays? Interested in swimming and eating, and if at all possible, privacy and quiet. Scout

Response:

Wednesday, Carolyn and I are going to a RPI park in Moore Haven, FL. We are considering taking a car trip to the keys. We have no great desire to spend a lot of time there, but figure everyone should see the keys at least once. Since it’s 250 miles from Moore Haven, to Key West, and campgrounds are so expensive at the Keys, it seems to make sense to spend a night in a motel and drive the car at 30 mpg, instead of the MH at 7. Questions. 1. If you’ve seen one of the keys, have you seen them all? 2. Is it worth the time and trouble to drive the 100 miles of the keys? 3. What kind of speeds and delays can one expect from one end of the keys to the other? 4. Are there lots of red lights, traffic jams, construction delays, etc.? 5. Is there something you know of which is a _must_ see? 6. Is there something we should know about and maybe avoid? 7. If we changed plans and stayed in a camground in Homestead, can one drive the keys from there and back in one day without rushing? 8. Can you suggest a reasonably priced hotel/motel which is clean. Lon

Response:

Questions. 1. If you’ve seen one of the keys, have you seen them all?

No way. You haven’t seen *anything* until you’ve seen Key West. Definitely go all the way down. 2. Is it worth the time and trouble to drive the 100 miles of the keys?

Absolutely. The drive itself is worth it. The scenery is spectacular and like nothing you will see anywhere else. Any number of long, high bridges over the ocean, connecting the little islands. 3. What kind of speeds and delays can one expect from one end of the keys to the other?

Don’t know about this time of year. Always expect tourist traffic, though, and don’t be in a hurry. You’ll go through any number of congested areas. US 1 down the Keys is *not* an expressway. You’ll be driving at slower speeds than you’re used to driving on a major highway. 4. Are there lots of red lights, traffic jams, construction delays, etc.?

Don’t know. There weren’t when we were there a few years ago. 5. Is there something you know of which is a _must_ see?

Hemingway’s house is an interesting tour. Mel Fisher’s museum of recovered shipwreck treasures is worth the time, IMO. Be sure to walk down Duval Street (where all the bars are) for people-watching. There are some really different-looking people there. <g And be sure to be at Mallory Square (the docks) at sunset for a crazy time, with lots of street performers and counter-culture types having a good ol’ time. 6. Is there something we should know about and maybe avoid?

Everything is expensive (location, location, location) — but you can’t avoid it, so don’t worry about it. 7. If we changed plans and stayed in a camground in Homestead, can one drive the keys from there and back in one day without rushing?

No. Not without rushing. And you wouldn’t have time to see anything once you got there. Besides, you need to be there at sunset (see above). 8. Can you suggest a reasonably priced hotel/motel which is clean.

Nothing will seem "reasonably priced." But it’s worth it, especially for one night. We’ve been twice and often talk about going again when we have time for a longer trip. GB in NC

Response:

Here is a short list of some of the camping facilities:

<snipped  I think the extensive list of URL’s probably busted his cell phone minute budget.  Lon & Carolyn, find an RV park not too far away and just go for it!  Report back on the sunsets and of, course, the food. If the guy on the lake is still offering parasailing, do that, too. J The Road Princess Residentially Challenged Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility

Response:

We’ve been down several times and find all the responses to this thread to be relevant. Whilst in Key West, we stay at the Fairfield Inn and use the trolly.

Yes!  We all forgot to tell Lon that taking a ride on the *Conch Train* is a must do.  The chamber of commerce in the heart of town used to have a free walking tour map, too, that was very nice if yo are in to architecture. J The Road Princess Residentially Challenged Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility

Response:

Lon, everyone has been spot on about the Key’s. The only thing that was missed so far is make sure you stop and get a piece of real Key Lime Pie. If it’s green it’s fake. Have fun

I love the raw oysters down there, but Lon is a Michigan boy and, from my experience they aren’t crazy about raw shellfish .   They make this drink on the upper Keys called a rum runner which is awesome. You sit on the porch overlooking the Gulf of Mexico and watch the sun extinquish itself in the Gulf.  You almost expcet to hear a hiss and see steam.  It’s much quieter than the sunset parties on Key West, but a pleasant and memorable experience. J The Road Princess Residentially Challenged Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility

Response:

Yes, but I have faith that Lon will not turn into a liberal. Tom M

LOL Your faith is justified. Lon

Response:

Jim An Old Parrot Head, In the Conch Republic, Just South of Reality PS: One of these days I will have a BlueBird,, until them I read & learn here daily….

Thanks for all the links, but I connect via cell phone. Thankfully, most of the campground are covered pretty well in our directories. Add that to the fact Good luck with that BlueBird. If money were no object, I’d swallow hard and tolerate the diesel smell and noise to have one. After touring the factory, I can’t imagine any unit being built stronger. Lon

Response:

For kicks, look over at the old and crumbling Bahia Honda bridge which parallels Seven Mile, or walk out on it to fish and think of what driving that must have been like.

Many a truck had their mirrors knocked off going across that old bridge when they passed each other. If you like fish be sure to get a fried grouper sandwich at the 7 mile grill on the north side of the bridge. Great! Dennis

Response:

Maybe this will change your mind about Key West. I absolutely love going there – and I am a liberal. It is the only true tropical weather in the continental USA (no daily average temperature below 32 degrees). It has all of the tropical plants that go with that climate. Add historic buildings – add beaches – plenty of shops and restaurants – championship sports fishing – golf – sailboat as sunset – circus cats – manmade land of coral – beautiful blue waters – sunsets – snorkeling – flying to fort jefferson – the Cuban adventure – refugees in little boats made of inner tubes and sapplings – light houses – salvaging on the reefs – gold coins from Spanish galleons – Flaglers railroad bridges  - Duval St – museums in forts – perfectly flat bicycling – mopeds – scooters – tour ships – first class hotels – bed and breakfasts made from mahogany from old ships – old homes – the conch train – Audabon home – Hemmingway home and cats – artistic community – college kids at spring breaks – drunks – bikinis – rainbow flags – driving down route 1 to its end – and the strong presence of the gay community.

Response:

Lon, everyone has been spot on about the Key’s. The only thing that was missed so far is make sure you stop and get a piece of real Key Lime Pie. If it’s green it’s fake. Have fun

Will do, Larrie. Thanks for the tip. Lon

Response:

Lon 1st, if you don’t get accommodations in the Keys,,, at least get something in the Homestead area.. This time a year we are a bit full of snow birds, so your drive from Florida City to Key West can take a couple hours,,, it’s only 127 miles,, but also only one road,,, US 1,,, not a lot of traffic lights,, but few passing areas.. Here is the FAQ maintained by the crowd on the Florida Sportsman Fishing Forum: http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=100907 It is full of everything you need to know,, from accommodations, to weather, fishing seasons, guide services, flora & fauna.. You should try one of our State parks,, either Long Key or Bahia Honda,, the later is only 33 miles from Key West.  There are also several KOA’s and other parks that can accommodate the biggest of the pushers… Here is a short list of some of the camping facilities: Sugarloaf KOA – http://floridakeys.net/koasugarloaf Fiesta Key KOA – http://floridakeys.net/koafiesta Dry Tortugas National Park – http://www.dry.tortugas.nation…g.htm Sunshine Key Encore Campground – http://www.encorerv.com/unique…n.htm Long Key State Park – http://www.floridastateparks.o…t.asp Bahia Honda State Park – http://www.floridastateparks.o…t.asp John Pennekamp State Park – http://www.floridastateparks.o…t.asp Knights Key Campground – http://www.seefloridaonline.co…athon You are a little late for the annual debauchery,,, we have a party at the end of October called Fantasy Fest,, based loosely on Halloween,, very similar to New Orleans’s Marti Gras,,, rather than use Ash Wednesday, we use All Saints Day,,, We encourage parents not to bring the KIDS,,, nufff said??? GB in NC hit your Q’s well,,, Here are a couple other web sites that may be of interest: http://www.fantasyfest.net/   << the official site http://www.bigeasychoppers.com/festival1.html   <<<< some pictures for the strong of hart If you fly fish,, here is a note I wrote a while back that address wade fishing: http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=95444 Good Luck,, Jim An Old Parrot Head, In the Conch Republic, Just South of Reality PS: One of these days I will have a BlueBird,, until them I read & learn here daily….

Response:

There are Campgrounds in the Keys.. Why not just take the rig? Yes , it’s crowded down here at this time of year, but that never seems to stop anyone.

Neither of us particularly like "crowded", and would avoid the keys entirely for that reason were it not for all the great things we have heard about it. I want to see it, but don’t want to stay long. It just doesn’t make sense to either of us to drive the MH 500 miles round trip to spend one night in it. Logically, since campgrounds generally cost $50/night on the keys, we figure we can spend up to $200 on a motel and food, and still be money ahead of the game. Besides, we’ve only spent 3 nights in the last 16 months which weren’t in the MH. It’ll be like a mini vacation. <g Also, don’t worry about food, there are great restaurants every where. Take your time (It’s only one road in and out.), see the sights (Sunrise while driving over the Long Key Bridge is one of my favorites ), and enjoy. BTW – Pennekamp state Park is in Key Largo.

What are the odds of getting in next week without a reservation? Lon

Response:

<< We’ve been twice and often talk about going again when we have time for a longer trip. GB in NC I agree with everything GB said.  It’s one corner of this country.  You have to be there at least once. Tom M

Response:

PS we have made the grade!!!  Decenber 5th was the day. Took about a year.

Congratulations. Vote early and often. <G Lon

Response:

<< We’ve been twice and often talk about going again when we have time for a longer trip. GB in NC I agree with everything GB said.  It’s one corner of this country.  You have to be there at least once. Tom M

You do know that Key West is the *real* margaritaville? Janet, ruining her reputation <g The Road Princess Residentially Challenged Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility

Response:

PS we have made the grade!!!  Decenber 5th was the day. Took about a year. Congratulations. Vote early and often. <G Lon

Thanks Lon, we are very happy with our new status. regards to Carolyn from Carol and I Aubrey

Response:

<< I agree with everything GB said.  It’s one corner of this country.  You have to be there at least once. Tom M

You do know that Key West is the *real* margaritaville? Yes, but I have faith that Lon will not turn into a liberal. Tom M

Response:

Is it worth the trip?  Absolutely, there’s nothing like it anywhere else in the Country.  Who knows, you may like it so much you never leave.  Happened to me, and I stayed for fifteen years. Canoli

Thanks a bunch, Canoli…and everyone else who responded. That should keep us busy and expose us to just the _right_ amount of trouble. <g Lon

Response:

8. Can you suggest a reasonably priced hotel/motel which is clean. Lon

We’ve been down several times and find all the responses to this thread to be relevant. Whilst in Key West, we stay at the Fairfield Inn and use the trolly. Don’t miss sundown on the pier! Peter & Anne-Marie Arnold Windsor, CT ‘95 F250 W/PSD {156 Kmi} 31 Ft Prowler Fifth Wheel NCT # 13390, The Masonic Campers

Response:

There are Campgrounds in the Keys.. Why not just take the rig? Yes , it’s crowded down here at this time of year, but that never seems to stop anyone. Also, don’t worry about food, there are great restaurants every where. Take your time (It’s only one road in and out.), see the sights (Sunrise while driving over the Long Key Bridge is one of my favorites ), and enjoy. BTW – Pennekamp state Park is in Key Largo.

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Is it worth the trip?  Absolutely, there’s nothing like it anywhere else in the Country.  Who knows, you may like it so much you never leave.  Happened to me, and I stayed for fifteen years.

What did you find to do for a living down there? John

Response:

 Hello, http://www.kwcamp.com/  (Key West) http://www.aokl.com/      (Key Largo)  Great 2 campgrounds, we prefer Key Largo with private beach, great sunsets,  Ardyno

Response:

Lon, everyone has been spot on about the Key’s. The only thing that was missed so far is make sure you stop and get a piece of real Key Lime Pie. If it’s green it’s fake. Have fun

Response:

Wednesday, Carolyn and I are going to a RPI park in Moore Haven, FL. We are considering taking a car trip to the keys. We have no great desire to spend a lot of time there, but figure everyone should see the keys at least once. Since it’s 250 miles from Moore Haven, to Key West, and campgrounds are so expensive at the Keys, it seems to make sense to spend a night in a motel and drive the car at 30 mpg, instead of the MH at 7. Questions. 1. If you’ve seen one of the keys, have you seen them all?

Yeah, you might as well go Miami and take in the sights in Liberty City. 2. Is it worth the time and trouble to drive the 100 miles of the

keys? It is 128 miles from Homestead to Key West 3. What kind of speeds and delays can one expect from one end of the keys to the other?

It will depend on how many morons like you, decide to kill themselves on the highway on that particular day. 4. Are there lots of red lights, traffic jams, construction delays,

etc.? Every other block, there is a red light 5. Is there something you know of which is a _must_ see?

The Gae Bois in Key West. 6. Is there something we should know about and maybe avoid?

The Gae Bois in Key West. 7. If we changed plans and stayed in a camground in Homestead, can one drive the keys from there and back in one day without rushing?

Depends on how many speeding tickets you feel comfortable with. 8. Can you suggest a reasonably priced hotel/motel which is clean.

The Mamma Jamma Inn on MLK Blvd in Liesure City. Don’t waste your time going if you want to drive to Key West and back in a day.  Disney world sounds like it would be more your speed.  If you do decide to go, the troopers always have their eyes open for out of state speeders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wednesday, Carolyn and I are going to a RPI park in Moore Haven, FL. We are considering taking a car trip to the keys. We have no great desire to spend a lot of time there, but figure everyone should see the keys at least once. Since it’s 250 miles from Moore Haven, to Key West, and campgrounds are so expensive at the Keys, it seems to make sense to spend a night in a motel and drive the car at 30 mpg, instead of the MH at 7. Questions. 1. If you’ve seen one of the keys, have you seen them all? 2. Is it worth the time and trouble to drive the 100 miles of the keys? 3. What kind of speeds and delays can one expect from one end of the keys to the other? 4. Are there lots of red lights, traffic jams, construction delays, etc.? 5. Is there something you know of which is a _must_ see? 6. Is there something we should know about and maybe avoid? 7. If we changed plans and stayed in a camground in Homestead, can one drive the keys from there and back in one day without rushing? 8. Can you suggest a reasonably priced hotel/motel which is clean. Lon

Hi Lon, We did that Key West thing about two years ago. We parked at a Casino near Homestead and spent a night parked there  and asked them the next morning if we could leave the RV parked with them. They didnt mind so we motored down by car. It was a long drive but worth it. There are touristy things to see along the way and the part I found interesting was looking out to sea, in a S.E direction to  Cuba ,apparently 90 mi away. (According to the sign they have put up) We also stayed at a state campground and went out  to sea in a  glass bottom boat. That was "cool" Do the trip, you will enjoy it. Regards PS we have made the grade!!!  Decenber 5th was the day. Took about a year.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Fishing in Belize

Fishing in Belize

Question:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary

For a real challenge, try that with an 8 weight… /daytripper (Not sure if waving goodbye is all that fun, though ;-)

Response:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

Response:

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

I wish I could say Belize was the worst I have seen. But then I didn’t spend much time on the mainland there, where conditions are much worse than where I was. — Charlie…

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world.

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

Response:

The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime.

…now why am I not surprised that you would do that Bill? I always knew you wuz one of the good guys. Good on ya. Frank Church

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Hmm . . . this was certainly true in Thailand.  Went there 6 times from 94-98. ( northern part of the country) (always stayed at the rear of the hotel where I stayed most. . . wanted it quieter)  Behind the hotel was a small field and a series of "small" wood buildings.  Some of the employees "lived" in these.   Would see them starting fires in the morning to cook breakfast and at night for dinner.  There was one shower for all the families, outside, with a cloth curtain. . . no hot water . . . and one outhouse.   These are the folks that did all aspects of the hotel functions. The owners live in suites at the top of the hotel. . . think they took a whole floor . . . or even two.  (quite a few fancy houses around the hotel from the other side of the economy,  with people catering to all resident needs) But with many of the hotel employees, and "most" other people I worked with in Thailand, they were selfless.  (I wasn’t at one of the higher end hotels) I got invited to a number of family events and functions of the less fortunate in terms of money.  I was overwhelmed by the generosity of them to share whatever they had to share.  Interesting reflection, at least to me, saving "face" is important over in that area of the world.  Even if I wanted to say something to an employee, I have to be careful about the presentation, and who was present.  (maybe we, in other parts of the world, can learn a bit from that concept) Neat thing to get into if you get a chance to work, and share experiences, with the people in the country you visit. (Naturally, not something that can generally happen with a whirlwind trip. . . nor something to consider . . . in some countries. . . but you can certainly develop friendships.) Most profound thing I’ve seen in my small part in world travel is absolute affluency and poverty right next to each other.  (Hmm. . . seem to have that part between me and my rich neighbors also . . . wonder if I can borrow a Sage rod or a cup of sugar or something?  . . . something to check out . . . and I think those are cute doggies . . . big teeth . . probably just smiling alot ) Thanks for helping me reflect on the international part. . . and my ramblings. BestWishes, DaveMohnsen Denver ( have a soft part in my heart for most of the Thailand folks. . .but there are always a few in the other category . . . but YMMV)

Response:

Hi DT, You are very correct. I have fished from the tip of the MX Yucatan all the way to the end of Belize in about 20 trips and that is a very sad fact. Actually, the fishing guides are some of the most affluent people in the Caribbean. The smart ones buy property and build rentals that their wife runs while they guide tourists. Most of them actually just drink and smoke a lot more. I was on a small cay for a week out of Dangriga, Belize fishing at the Blue Horizon Lodge it’s first season. On the back side of the cay in the mangroves was a little shack and a little skinny family of  four and their skinny dog. They had an old boat that they were using to haul sacks of sand, coral and shells to backfill the new fishing camp for ~25 cents a sack. While we fished, they loaded sacks, stacked them on their old boat to almost sinking and brought them back to the camp where they poured them around the new cottages on stilts to bring up the new cleared land above sea level a bit. You can imagine the heat, humidity and bugs they endured, let along the idea of that hard of work. They were all very skinny and made me feel very sad. The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime. This kind of life is common in many 3rd world countries. Be glad you and yours are here in America. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

Response:

Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Looking for Boulder, Lousiville, Lafayette/colorado fishing partners?

Looking for Boulder, Lousiville, Lafayette/colorado fishing partners?

Question:

I’m relatively new to Colorado — but I’ve been flyfishing for some 16 years now (finally getting decent ;-) . I’m interested in finding some fishing partners and/or perhaps getting an informal fishing club going? I know about TU, but I’m looking more for a small group that would like to get together once or twice a month and swap fish tales and organize outings…… any interest? Or any groups like this out there?

Response:

check out the FEderation of Flyfisher’s website.  They have links to local clubs you can check into.  Click the link for FFF clubs and look under "by state" for Colorado. http://www.fedflyfishers.org Best of luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to Colorado — but I’ve been flyfishing for some 16 years now (finally getting decent ;-) . I’m interested in finding some fishing partners and/or perhaps getting an informal fishing club going? I know about TU, but I’m looking more for a small group that would like to get together once or twice a month and swap fish tales and organize outings…… any interest? Or any groups like this out there? —

Response:

Sorry there was a typo in my instructions.  It should be by region, not by state. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – check out the FEderation of Flyfisher’s website.  They have links to local clubs you can check into.  Click the link for FFF clubs and look under "by state" for Colorado. http://www.fedflyfishers.org Best of luck I’m relatively new to Colorado — but I’ve been flyfishing for some 16 years now (finally getting decent ;-) . I’m interested in finding some fishing partners and/or perhaps getting an informal fishing club going? I know about TU, but I’m looking more for a small group that would like to get together once or twice a month and swap fish tales and organize outings…… any interest? Or any groups like this out there? —

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » What's for dinner at the San Juan 'Clave ?

What's for dinner at the San Juan 'Clave ?

Question:

Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ? — Ken Fortenberry- and what does the wine list look like ;-)

Response:

Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ?

Basically, more burgers at the Sportsman…There ain’t anything else in town as I recall… /daytripper (Blessedly, they’re darn good burgers…)

Response:

Sportsman for dinner.  I just can’t eat that much at lunch.  San Juan Subs is closed for the winter but i hope they’ll make us a few sandwiches if they’re around.  Abe’s has a restaurant and we can drive to Aztec for pizza one night.  Bring groceries for lunch or just a power bar – the days are so short. bruce h

  Any B-B-Q grills around?? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Whatever goes with Carpbum’s Pondwater Red.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ?

Response:

Sportsman for dinner.  I just can’t eat that much at lunch.  San Juan Subs is closed for the winter but i hope they’ll make us a few sandwiches if they’re around.  Abe’s has a restaurant and we can drive to Aztec for pizza one night.  Bring groceries for lunch or just a power bar – the days are so short. I guess we can fish at night.  Unfortunately, we’ll have a full moon.

Someone bring a cooler, and you can pick up sandwiches/chips/beer at the little grocery store next door to the Sportsman. I didn’t know Abe’s had a restaurant, we always ate at the Sportsman. /daytripper

Response:

We can log in to ROFF and get our fill of Spam.

Take it with you, RW, and then you won’t even need to bother to log in. –Steve

Response:

Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ? Basically, more burgers at the Sportsman…There ain’t anything else in town as I recall…

We can log in to ROFF and get our fill of Spam. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Sportsman for dinner.  I just can’t eat that much at lunch.  San Juan Subs is closed for the winter but i hope they’ll make us a few sandwiches if they’re around.  Abe’s has a restaurant and we can drive to Aztec for pizza one night.  Bring groceries for lunch or just a power bar – the days are so short. I guess we can fish at night.  Unfortunately, we’ll have a full moon. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Ken, When I was there last, I would make myself a sandwich and eat it about mid- day for lunch.  Breakfast was at Abes and Dinner was at Sportsman Inn.  We could always decide on driving to Aztec and get a steak one night. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Ken, At least one night we should caravan over to Aztec and eat at the Aztec Cafe. Very full family type menu. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ? — Ken Fortenberry- and what does the wine list look like ;-)

Response:

Someone bring a cooler,  <snip

  Boy, there’s an idea I never thought of:)   I guess I’m going to have to rent a trailer so we can bring some fishing stuff.  Between Charlie’s 3-4 cases of home brew and a few cases of vintage Old Milwaukeem for me, we won’t have any room for fishing stuff in the Jeep. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Robert W. Jones writes: Ken, At least one night we should caravan over to Aztec and eat at the Aztec Cafe. Very full family type menu. Bob in El Paso

Shotgun! Dave L. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Rizuto’s has a breakfast, the burgers at the Sportsman are legendary lunch, but what’s for dinner ?

If this is an invitation to cook for us, I wouldn’t pass up a chance to eat one of your meals. I’d even be willing to bring the fixings. However, I don’t believe there are any cooking facilities available. Willi

Response:

… but what’s for dinner ? If this is an invitation to cook for us, I wouldn’t pass up a chance to eat one of your meals. I’d even be willing to bring the fixings. However, I don’t believe there are any cooking facilities available.

That wasn’t really the intent, I was just curious. Being mainly vegetarian, a steady diet of hamburgers, no matter how well dressed, would plug me up just as effectively as stuffing a stopper up my arse. And the last thing you guys want at a ‘Clave is for me to be full of shit. ;-) — Ken Fortenberry- set up like a bowling pin ;-)

Response:

That wasn’t really the intent, I was just curious. Being mainly vegetarian, a steady diet of hamburgers, no matter how well dressed, would plug me up just as effectively as stuffing a stopper up my arse. Ken Fortenberry- set up like a bowling pin ;-)

  Cool!  Then we could have a pool on when you explode!  You’re bunking several cabins away from us, right? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  Cool!  Then we could have a pool on when you explode!  You’re bunking several cabins away from us, right?

What, didn’t Charlie tell you ? The San Juan ‘Clave Committee, meeting in closed session, decided that the Old Milwaukee drinker and the Budweiser drinker had to bunk together. Buncha friggin’ beer snobs if you ask me, but it’s you and me Snoop, we be roomies ! I’ll bring the Eminem CD’s. ;-) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 Being mainly vegetarian, a steady diet of hamburgers, no matter how well dressed, would plug me up just as effectively as stuffing a stopper up my arse. And the last thing you guys want at a ‘Clave is for me to be full of shit. ;-)

I believe an extra bowl of chile will clear that problem right up. Kevin and so will a Bud or two.

Response:

I’ll bring the Eminem CD’s. ;-)

  And I’ll bring a couple of sticks of dynamite, one for each ear! Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

: to Aztec for pizza one night.  Bring groceries for lunch or just a : power bar – the days are so short. Absolutely. To leave the river for 2 hours for lunch is nuts. Besides, you’ll probably lose your parking place ;-) ) JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

OK, a few more bits of info and opinion. 1.  I’ll check on the grills, snoop, and if they don’t have one i’ll toss a gas grill in my truck before i pick up RW.  I’ll drop Warren an email also and find out your exact musical preferences for 2 am. 2.  My vote for the Aztec Cafe is Monday night the 11th, that way we can have everybody (we’re meeting Dave L at the T Hole parking lot at 12:30 sharp sunday). 3.  Ken, if you just make sure there’s chile on your burger, you won’t have any problems, zimbo’s right.  What’s the old expression "like buckshot through a ?" 4.  If you have any flyfishing videos or any of the following FILMS, bring them.  Rizuto’s has VCRs in the rooms:  1. Raising Arizona  2. Caddyshack  3.  There’s Something About Mary  4.  The Life of Brian 5.  You guys would not believe the amount of work to do on my new old house before this trip – it’ll be right down to the wire.  Didn’t help myself by fishing a spring creek/irrigation ditch near my house for three hrs yesterday afternoon. Really looking forward to seeing everyone and of course the fishing. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

3.  Ken, if you just make sure there’s chile on your burger, you won’t have any problems, zimbo’s right.  What’s the old expression "like buckshot through a ?"

Correction.  Kevin V’s right.  Sorry Kevin. Before you buy.

Response:

Just spoke with Rizuto’s – they have no grills.  They’re ok with us grilling in the parking lot, we just need to make sure to use their big sink for cleanup and not the sinks in our rooms. I’ll bring a grill along.  It’ll be one of those weber types – i have a bunch of charcoal also. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Lunchtime is when the temps get warm. Good time to fish. Days are going to be very short and the mornings cold. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : to Aztec for pizza one night.  Bring groceries for lunch or just a : power bar – the days are so short. Absolutely. To leave the river for 2 hours for lunch is nuts. Besides, you’ll probably lose your parking place ;-) ) JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

… 4.  If you have any flyfishing videos or any of the following FILMS, bring them.  Rizuto’s has VCRs in the rooms:  1. Raising Arizona  … 4.  The Life of Brian

…these 2 selections alone indicate you to be a gentleman of exceedingly fine and discriminating taste… you, sir, are encouraged and welcome to attend any and all of the carolina peasants’ gatherings to stalk the wiley trout. …   Really looking forward to seeing everyone …disabuse yourself of this notion immediately…i’ve seen several of them, and even eaten their cooking.  if you are a reasonably tolerant person, with reasonable expectations and less-than-discriminating vision, and you carry a roll of toilet paper with you…well, at least you’ll enjoy the fishing… <GGG. jeff (i juana baby, hy…)

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Upper Penninsula of Michigan?

Upper Penninsula of Michigan?

Question:

There are a lot of great trout streams in the UP. I fish the streams around Iron county as that is where I live, these include S. Branch of the Paint, Cook’s Run, and The Iron River. One of the highest rated streams is the Fox River but I have never fished it. I lived in the PNW for a year, the rivers here are alot smaller but also seem to hold alot more trout. You will find Brook, Brown and a few Rainbows. There are also some Steelhead runs in the streams that flow into lake Superior. Depending on where in the UP you plan on going you will find alot of fishing of many different types. Let me know if you need more info. I am thinking about heading the UP of Michigan in the next few weeks for a little camping/fishing.  I am an avid fly fisherman, but all of my experience is in the Pacific Northwest and the

Montana/Wyoming region.  In other words, I am completely unfamiliar with that area of the country in terms of fishing other than a lot of people have told me it’s a great place to go.  Can anyone recommend some rivers, streams, or lakes that are good bets for fly fishing? Thanks, Tom

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am thinking about heading the UP of Michigan in the next few weeks for a little camping/fishing.  I am an avid fly fisherman, but all of my experience is in the Pacific Northwest and the Montana/Wyoming region.  In other words, I am completely unfamiliar with that area of the country in terms of fishing other than a lot of people have told me it’s a great place to go.  Can anyone recommend some rivers, streams, or lakes that are good bets for fly fishing? Thanks, Tom

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Catch n Kill Bozos Strike Again!

Catch n Kill Bozos Strike Again!

Question:

Ouch, time for bed.   I forgot to say that the C&R does help increase numbers of fish.  I also agree with the concept that too many = bad and some should be taken out. When my wife wants to eat fish I will keep a few if I am fishing in a spot that I know will not miss them.  I have fished certain streams, lakes and rivers that cannot afford to miss them so I C&R. I think 100% of either side is a little extreme. Now I can get some sleep.  Thanks for your patience. Warren (Ain’t life in the gray area GREAT?!?!)

Response:

Warren writes: I think 100% of either side is a little extreme.

..my point, exactly. Blaming one side or the other for overall complex ecological issues merely divides what should be a common interest group.                           Tom Littleton

Response:

Howdy gang, Sorry to vent but I don’t know where else to scream. I went to my favorite mid summer fishing hole.  This is a southern cal river that is mostly just some deep ponds during the summer months with some sunfish and smallmouth bass.  On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone.  Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

Response:

Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

Did you see the fish removed from the pond??? Isn’t it even remotely possible that either some other factor caused your lack of success???  I primarily fish C&R, but I don’t feel it is right to label a person as a moron because he keeps a few fish to eat. The "meat fisherman" or "poacher" cleaning out a hot spot is the most cammon excuse for a lack of success where I live, and I guess where you live too. George Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Personally, if your keeping fish from a river, I would say 85 is a bit high…..   Not to be confused with lakes and sustainable populations, and highly prolific species. With the numbers of fisherpersons on todays rivers…..I just don’t feel the math supports even keeping a few. fishermen ‘raise fish’ fisheaters buy fish fishkillers kill fish

Response:

Yea, what George and Jonathan said.. :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy gang, Sorry to vent but I don’t know where else to scream. I went to my favorite mid summer fishing hole.  This is a southern cal river that is mostly just some deep ponds during the summer months with some sunfish and smallmouth bass.  On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone.  Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

Response:

Your letter is a prime example of a holier than thou catch and release attitude. Healthy fisheries survive angling. Stressed fisheries do less well. Heal your streams,limit your angling and encourage others to do likewise. Then, you may see better conditions, and appreciate the outdoors and angling for what it can offer.                            Tom Littleton

Blah blah blah (not being rude).  Catch and release is a viable option!  Just recently their was an article in the paper about how there were too many fish in the Big Hole because too many people practiced catch and release.  Fish and Wildlife was worried with the heat that too many fish would die which happened a while back. There are several other examples of how catch and release can improve the quality of fishing.  Albeit it is not a 100% solution, but sometimes every little bit helps. I keep a fish or two every year so I am not 100% C&R, but do see a lot of value in it. Warren

Response:

John Lacell writes :                                   On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone

One can only wonder if the friendship were mutual. Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  

No, they eventually would have been stressed to death with enough hooking and habitat invasion. Plus, how do you know that they were killed by angling as you infer. Highly unlikely it is that all of them would be caught. Your letter is a prime example of a holier than thou catch and release attitude. Healthy fisheries survive angling. Stressed fisheries do less well. Heal your streams,limit your angling and encourage others to do likewise. Then, you may see better conditions, and appreciate the outdoors and angling for what it can offer.                             Tom Littleton

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Advice wanted -bonefishing

Advice wanted -bonefishing

Question:

Bill–thank you for the clearest, most succinct piece of fishing advice I’ve seen recently in this group. I’m also going to the Bahamas for the first time next week and your advice was timely and valuable.

Response:

I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

Jim, As of yet I have to wet a line in the southern salt.  However I attended a lefty Kreh seminar last year with a few good general tips, as follows: Find out what colour the bottom is where you are going.  Tie light coloured flies for a light bottom..  A dark bait would seem out of place in "nature" A few good flies in different sizes and colours are better than a vest of mix and match.. FInd out if the fish are being caught on a high or low tide and fish accordingly… Suncreen, suncreen and more suncreen… Ian

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I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

Start with a good hat that has a bill that is dark on the underside and has a chin strap for wind. Next, Polarized glasses that are not to dark and are in brown to yellow tones with a neck strap and side shields. Good sun screen is a must. I like very light weight long sleeve shirts and long pants for sun protection in light colors. Orvis, Streamline, Simms and Bare make about the same neoprene, thick soled flats booties that are the standard foot wear today. Most anglers are using #7, 8 and 9 weight outfits for bonefish depending on the wind, fly size and weight. We like leaders that a either hand tied or knotless that are ~ 9′ and clear with a stiff/hard consistency. If the wind is not blowing and the fish are spooky, I just add 3 to 5 feet of tippet and go down a size in flies. I recommend Cortland or SA saltwater lines for the hotter weather. In the Bahamas they use light colored Nasty Charlies that were developed there by Bob Nauheim of Santa Rosa ( Fishing International). The McVay Gotcha is very popular and Lefty Kreh really promotes the chartruese/white Clouser minnows. You might bring some small light colored crabs?  We use smaller/lighter flies in shallow water ( #6/8), medium weight/size flies(#4/6) for average depths(12 to 18") and larger/heavier flies( #2) with lead eyes for deeper water or current drift from tide movement. Take something to clean the salt spray from you glasses. I use a fanny pack if we are going for a long walk on the flats. Bring a small water resistant camera, batteries and film. I use a big stainless steel combo forcepts/cutter that will pinch the barbs, cut leader/tippet and remove deeply hooked flies. I hope that all anglers could have one nice day on the flats with the bonefish. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Rapalicas. Skinny Minnies

Rapalicas. Skinny Minnies

Question:

Hi Sandy, Great idea and post on the Skinny Minny. I’m going to give them a try after Christmas. There is usually some kind of thaw for a few day in mid January in Montana and I’m going to be prepared. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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[ skinnies 4K ]

             –Skinny Minnies and Rapalicas– WARNING:   The following discussion may prove hazardous to your sensibilities. If you like precise definitions and are uncomfortable with gray area, abort now and read no further. Else continue.   Hot damn. I’ve been working on this for over ten years, and now I finally have it: homemade, lightweight wigglers that are quick and easy to make. I wrote about this once, or, should I say John Gierach did, about 10 years ago in fly fisherman, in an article called "Flies or Lures," where my work was reviewed along with the work of several others (A K Best?) I had some wigglers that worked then, but they were way too heavy, and took way too long to make. I posted some interim, ‘almost works’ instructions to rec.outdoors.fishing a few years ago, and immediately started a flame war about what is and isn’t fly fishing. Several readers thought the very idea of fly rod wigglers was inherently reprehensible. One reader referred to them derisively as "Skinny Minnies." I thought it was a pretty good name. I’ll have to see if I can get something published under that name. For me, wigglers have been the hardest challenge in fly tying. I have been making them for years, but I never knew–until recently–which ones would work and which ones wouldn’t. Dave Whitlock once described the balancing of homemade wigglers as "Impossibly difficult." But it ain’t so: once you’ve got it, it’s easy. BACKGROUND:   First of all–just in case there is any doubt in your mind–wigglers are absolutely deadly. Tiny, 3/8" long wigglers are absolutely dynamite on the spring creeks. In bigger water, fat, long-bodied wigglers thrown into the i pockets behind overhanging willow branches pull out big browns like a magnet. MATERIALS:    Thin super glue.    5-minute epoxy    Spawn sack—dyed brown or black if you are a perfectionist    Clear mylar sheeting (get it at the drafting supplies store, ala                          Bett’s frog lip)    any standard hook…with hook size vaguely dependant on body length.    optional: any number of rubber leg, marabou, saddle hackle additions              that can be added, as-per-your imagination. TYING (assembly) INSTRUCTIONS:    ….say for a big one…    Cut a 1/4" x 1/4" x 2" square tube of closed cell foam. Use scissors to taper off the rear end. Use a razor blade to cut a 60 degree slanted front face in the foam. Slit what will eventually be the belly of the fly (lure?) and push in a flattened split shot, along with a dab of epoxy. This "belly-mounted" ballast is critical. This (belly ballast) was the missing part of the puzzle, for me. With a bouyant tail, a little ballast in the belly and slightly weighted bill, they all orient downwards, and dive and wiggle like crazy when you pull on the line.     Roll the foam body up like a cigarette (perhaps you learned how to do this i back in the late 1960’s)–in a rectangle of spawn sack. Twist up the loose spawn sack at the rear end, and glue the tight knot at the rear end with a spot of thin super glue. Clip off the excesss spawn sack. Twist the spawn sack flat over the slanted front end of the foam body. Use a small amount of thin super glue to pin the spawn sack flat against the slanted front end of the foam.   Cut a rectangle of rigid, clear mylar sheeting for the diving lip. Rough it up with sand paper. Glue the front end of the slanted foam body onto the diving lip with epoxy. Set it aside to dry.    Once the epoxy has hardened, use scissors to trim back the mylar sheeting into a Rapala-like diving lip. Glue an additional, flattened split shot on the lower edge of the bill.    At this point, you can add do-dads. Sew in rubber legs, flashabou, saddle hackles, beady eyes….whatever you want. What you have, at this point, is a soft-bodied lure that dives and wiggles like a daemon, and yet is no heavier than many commercially tied streamer flies. You can toss them easily with a fly rod. HOW TO FISH THE FLURE:   Use a bodkin needle to poke a hole through the bill. Push the tippet through the hole. Throw a half hitch around the body of the lure. Use a needle to push the tippet through the foam at its rear end. Tie on any hook you like. Fish it upstream and across, like a streamer. You may have to use toenail clippers to "fine tune" the action of the lure. Then try fishing it it downstream, swimming it back and forth at the top of likely looking pockets. Pay attention and be ready to set the hook. You’ll get plenty of strikes. You’ll find more big fish than you ever imagined. I fished some of these last summer on the Big Horn, and the results were nearly indescribable. The only flaw at that point, was that only about 1 in 4 flies I made worked (wiggled) right. Now they all do. It’s all in the belly ballast.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Yosemite Flyfishing

Yosemite Flyfishing

Question:

Looking for info on fishing Yosemite rivers. Planning a Spring ‘96 trip with the family.   Thanks, Russ.

Response:

If you’re backpacking, try out the Tuolumne below Glen Aulin, anywhere along it down to Hetch Hetchy. It’s a serious hike, be prepared.  You can walk in to the falls at Glen Aulin, and fishing the pool at the bottom is fun. You can backpack into some great lakes, like Benson or Smedberg.  While fishing in the back country can be good, fishing off the trail (even a mile) can be terrific.  It’s the crowds, man, you got to get away from the hordes of people who descend upon Yosemite.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » ??Fly Fishing in Florida Keys

??Fly Fishing in Florida Keys

Question:

I will be visiting the keys for the first time in late February early May and am looking for recommendation for places to fish, charters, and equipment needs. I’ll be staying on Little Conch Key, mile 62.  Responses

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: I will be visiting the keys for the first time in late February early May : and am looking for recommendation for places to fish, charters, and : equipment needs. I’ll be staying on Little Conch Key, mile 62.  Responses

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