Question:

George somebody (can’t remember his last name) once told me to

I can’t imagine anyone named George flaming anyone in this manner. <g — TL, Tim

Response:

George somebody (can’t remember his last name) once told me to I can’t imagine anyone named George flaming anyone in this manner. <g

I’m shocked! SHOCKED! I tells ya! /daytripper (Could never happen here

Response:

There’s an old Western pattern, The Rio Grande Trude, that’s VERY similar to your Pass Lake. It was somewhat of a standard some twenty years ago, but you seldom see it anymore. There was a guy that specialized in the fly and caught some very big fish in waters that generally demand very small flies. One of the reason the fly is so good is that it fishes well dry, damp or wet. Willi

Help me out here. Isn’t the Rio Grande Trude basically a Royal Trude with out the red thread on the body? If so I keep several of those in my fly box. The Royal Trude is my favorite fly on my favorite stream. However, if the fishies are being fussy and not taking it, I will try the Rio Grande (or at least what I am thinking is Rio Grande) and sometimes I will start catching fish with it. It seems odd to me that that small of a change in the fly (no red body thread) will make that much difference. Also, if they are taking the Royal they won’t touch the Rio Grande. Russell

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"pittendrigh" < George somebody (can’t remember his last name) once told me to It was funny.  In fact, thanks George. I needed that.

Sorry, I can’t help myself here Sandy… was it the telling you needed or did you actually do it and discover you needed it? c):-) Clark

Response:

  Very interesting.  Peacock herl is fascinating stuff.  There are many   materials with a vast range of uses in fly tying, but peacock herl is a   true standout among them.  It is the only material I know of which   virtually guarantees that flies incorporating it will catch   fish……there’s just something magic about it.  I have never   encountered a fly using peacock herl that is not a good fish catcher.     That said, I find it a bit odd to see it in a dry fly.  Herl, by its   very nature, floats like a brick.  Unlike many feathers, it is not the   least bit hydrophobic…..quite the contrary, it wicks up water so   effectively that it is difficult to make it float, even with the best of   floatants.     Never having seen this fly in action, I would suspect that the wing   stays on the surface while the body is submerged.  While this sort of   arrangement often makes it hard to keep a fly floating at all, thus   causing no end of frustration, it is often VERY appealing to fish.  My   own favorite Pass Lake works on the same principle.  I tie it with a   chenille body (equally problematic in dry flies) which will occasionally   allow the fly to sit on the surface for a short while but inevitably   causes the entire body to sink through the meniscus, leaving the wing   (at best) to keep the whole damned thing from sinking.  Both trout and   panfish frequently find this irresistible. My guess is that the fly Harry posted is going to float LESS well than your Pass Lake. CDC does float but not well enough to hold the weight of a soaked peacock body. Like you stated through, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. There’s an old Western pattern, The Rio Grande Trude, that’s VERY similar to your Pass Lake. It was somewhat of a standard some twenty years ago, but you seldom see it anymore. There was a guy that specialized in the fly and caught some very big fish in waters that generally demand very small flies. One of the reason the fly is so good is that it fishes well dry, damp or wet. Willi

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Yeah you’re right, I over reacted and apologize to Sandy.

Not necessary, and not a problem. I did say "it’s interesting how ideas get invented multiple times," didn’t I? Anyway, if you want to play on the internet it helps to have a thick skin. Words come right off the tips of people’s fingertips, and, as such, are easily interpreted in multiple, unintended ways.   George somebody (can’t remember his last name) once told me to It was funny.  In fact, thanks George. I needed that.

Response:

I just made a new set of step-by-step tying instructions for the world famous ‘Flat Caddis’ This is a fly I’ve been tying for years. It’s an attempt an anatomically more accurate version of the Troth Elk Hair Caddis. This fly does lie flat to the water, like a real caddis fly. And I enjoy tying it. Does it catch more fish than an Elk Hair Caddis? I can’t honestly say yes. It certainly does just as well however, and it floats like a cork.   There is something about horizontally oriented parachute hackles that does a better job of floating a dry fly than traditional hackles. http://montana-riverboats.com/pages/pages.php?page_title=FlatCaddis

Response:

I just made a new set of step-by-step tying instructions for the world famous ‘Flat Caddis’

I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I also tie the wing slightly longer than normal. When tied that way, the fly rides the water "full of life" and you can easily give the fly some lifelike action which I think is often a trigger for fish. I also fish an EHC with no hackle at all. It floats reasonably well when totally dry but is most effective down in the film or slightly sunken. Willi

Response:

I just made a new set of step-by-step tying instructions for the world famous ‘Flat Caddis’ I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best.

I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just made a new set of step-by-step tying instructions for the world famous ‘Flat Caddis’ I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang

 I think this style was first made popular by Ralph Cutter and  his e/c caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=e/c and  Bob Brooks Headlight caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=headlite Harry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang  I think this style was first made popular by Ralph Cutter and  his e/c caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=e/c and  Bob Brooks Headlight caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=headlite

The above patterns are similar to the Flat Caddis Pittendrigh described. The pattern I was describing may have a name, but it evolved for me from a pattern described by Wright that from what I remember, he called a Skittering or Fluttering Caddis. He used spade hackle tips for the wings (some other tiers used mink hairs) that were tied in in three bunches. These materials are hard to get and the wing was hard to tie "right" so the fly would have action and good flotation. I substituted elk/deer hair for the wing. Over time, I lengthened the wing and used more turns of hackle but with a hackle one size smaller than "usual." This makes for a fly that skitters and hops on the surface very easily. Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang  I think this style was first made popular by Ralph Cutter and  his e/c caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=e/c and  Bob Brooks Headlight caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=headlite The above patterns are similar to the Flat Caddis Pittendrigh described. The pattern I was describing may have a name, but it evolved for me from a pattern described by Wright that from what I remember, he called a Skittering or Fluttering Caddis. He used spade hackle tips for the wings (some other tiers used mink hairs) that were tied in in three bunches. These materials are hard to get and the wing was hard to tie "right" so the fly would have action and good flotation. I substituted elk/deer hair for the wing. Over time, I lengthened the wing and used more turns of hackle but with a hackle one size smaller than "usual." This makes for a fly that skitters and hops on the surface very easily. Willi

I’ve been tying caddis in this style for nearly twenty years and the idea was not original.  It was taught to me by the Malignant Dwarf who, if memory serves, learned it from someone else when he began twenty or more years before.   Sorry Harry, but what I’m thinking of (and what I believe Willi is describing) doesn’t look much like either of the flies on the pages you cited. Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just made a new set of step-by-step tying instructions for the world famous ‘Flat Caddis’ I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang

I’ve always heard them called Skittering Caddis.  There is a version at http://www.hawkeyeflyfishing.com/Fly_patterns/Drys/D15.html  ,though the version I prefer has no palmered hackle on the body, but a dense short conventional hackle in front of the wing. BTW I have used a larger version of this fly  (light wire size 6 salmon/steelhead hook) to good effect on steelhead this time of year – also effective on trout during the October Caddis hatch Bob Weinberger

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"William Loehman/Susan Schwarz" I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I also tie the wing slightly longer than normal. When tied that way, the fly rides the water "full of life" and you can easily give the fly some lifelike action which I think is often a trigger for fish. I also fish an EHC with no hackle at all. It floats reasonably well when totally dry but is most effective down in the film or slightly sunken.

I like similar styles and particularly like an EHC with a cdc hackle instead of the traditional. Very effective on spring creeks. Clark

Response:

I think this style was first made popular by Ralph Cutter and  his e/c caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=e/c and  Bob Brooks Headlight caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=headlite Harry

Hello Harry: Yes, those flies are interesting: basically the same fly as mine. My proportions are different, and I don’t bother with a dubbed body, but basically it’s the same. Every idea seems to get invented multiple times. I got email from an historian the other day (among other things, he’s tracking down a reference to flies taken along on the Lewis and Clark expedition). Anyway one thing led to another. I mentioned to him I first showed the Flat Caddis to Gary LaFontaine in 1981, at a fly fishing demonstration Gary put on at Dave Kumlein’s Bozeman Orvis shop. Gary liked that fly, and offered to ‘help me get it published.’ In retrospect, I was a fool not to take him up on that.

Response:

Your right I was looking at the  Pittendrigh  pattern…. how ’bout this one? http://www.troutflies.com/pictures/flys/spent_caddis/spent_caddis.shtml – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also like this fly better than a traditional EHC but I like an EHC with no hackle in the body and a traditional hackle, full but slightly undersized, best. I’ve always like the pattern you describe too, Willi, but I’ve never thought of it as simply a variant EHC.  I’m pretty sure it has a name of its own but that name escapes me.  Anybody? Wolfgang  I think this style was first made popular by Ralph Cutter and  his e/c caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=e/c and  Bob Brooks Headlight caddis http://www.troutflies.com/go.mv?ID=headlite The above patterns are similar to the Flat Caddis Pittendrigh described. The pattern I was describing may have a name, but it evolved for me from a pattern described by Wright that from what I remember, he called a Skittering or Fluttering Caddis. He used spade hackle tips for the wings (some other tiers used mink hairs) that were tied in in three bunches. These materials are hard to get and the wing was hard to tie "right" so the fly would have action and good flotation. I substituted elk/deer hair for the wing. Over time, I lengthened the wing and used more turns of hackle but with a hackle one size smaller than "usual." This makes for a fly that skitters and hops on the surface very easily. Willi I’ve been tying caddis in this style for nearly twenty years and the idea was not original.  It was taught to me by the Malignant Dwarf who, if memory serves, learned it from someone else when he began twenty or more years before.   Sorry Harry, but what I’m thinking of (and what I believe Willi is describing) doesn’t look much like either of the flies on the pages you cited. Wolfgang

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  Anyway one thing led to another. I mentioned to him I first showed   the Flat Caddis to Gary LaFontaine in 1981, at a fly fishing demonstration   Gary put on at Dave Kumlein’s Bozeman Orvis shop. Gary liked that fly,   and offered to ‘help me get it published.’   In retrospect, I was a fool not to take him up on that. IMO, it just a matter of marketing in terms of how a "new" fly name gets recognized and is largely just an ego thing. It seems to me that it is the person responsible for making a particular pattern popular that gets the naming "right", not necessarily the "first" person to tie it. IMO, there are very few unique flies that come out. Most are just minor variations. With the number of tiers out there, virtually all of these variations have been tried by some tiers. Not to criticize your pattern, but I find it highly unlikely that you were the first person to use the elk hair tag as a post for a parachute. Actually, I could give a shit and would be happy to call it the pittendrigh flat wing caddis. Your reaction reminds me of Andy Kim becoming pissed off because other people were using a thread body for their midge nymphs and calling them something other than "Yong" something. Willi

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  Your right I was looking at the  Pittendrigh  pattern…. how ’bout   this one?   http://www.troutflies.com/pictures/flys/spent_caddis/spent_caddis.shtml That’s the right "style". I like a skinnier body, shorter denser hackle and a longer wing. Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gary put on at Dave Kumlein’s Bozeman Orvis shop. Gary liked that fly, and offered to ‘help me get it published.’ In retrospect, I was a fool not to take him up on that. Your reaction reminds me of Andy Kim becoming pissed off because other people were using a thread body for their midge nymphs and calling them something other than "Yong" something. Willi, I’ve never read that sort of atitude into Sandy’s posts, and don’t really see it in this one. Sandy puts up detailed patterns and tying instructions for basically altruistic reasons (as far as I can tell). I have always appreciated his posts and his ROFF presence. To me his comment above was a simple honest statement of having had a chance to accept help from a very well-known person and for some reason passing it up.

Yeah you’re right, I over reacted and apologize to Sandy. I also value his input here and on ROFFT and think that he does have some very innovative ideas especially in his use of foam. I was on Andy Kim’s website the other night and read his rants and……. The naming of flies and credit for designing them has always seemed like   a weird thing to me. It seems to me to be more fame or ego or money or advertising related than substance. There are very few truly new patterns. Most are just SLIGHT modifications of other patterns being used. EVERY tier that has been tying for any length of time routinely ties his own patterns whether purposeful or inadvertent. Few patterns remain true to the original. More significant to me is when someone comes up with the idea for incorporating new materials into a fly or coming up with new techniques for tying or creating a new style of fly. But who knows who was the first person to use CDC on a fly or beadheads or foam or epoxy or who was the first to use a parachute hackle or dubbing twist or ……. If some famous person in the golden retriever world liked your work and offered to put a plug in for you, wouldn’t you feel the same way?  

No Willi

Response:

…. how ’bout this one? http://www.troutflies.com/pictures/flys/spent_caddis/spent_caddis.shtml

Yep, that’s the one I had in mind.  Interesting body in the photo.  Herl? Wolfgang

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Here is a variation using CDC http://www.troutflies.com/rofft/cdc/downwing.shtml – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Your right I was looking at the  Pittendrigh  pattern…. how ’bout   this one?   http://www.troutflies.com/pictures/flys/spent_caddis/spent_caddis.shtml That’s the right "style". I like a skinnier body, shorter denser hackle and a longer wing. Willi

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Here is a variation using CDC http://www.troutflies.com/rofft/cdc/downwing.shtml

Tie that in black and you just might have a winner for the Bighorn.

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I do tie it in black, I would show you ‘cepting my new DC has not made it to my door. I made the mistake of buying it over the net from what c/net describes as 4 star rated seller(good rating). I did get one after 10 days, plugged  it in and the LED read "system error". The manual says send back to Nikon if this error shows up. Back to the seller it went…now they tell me all of the Nikons they have are defective… I  asked for my money back after three weeks of  hassles and BS. I do not believe a thing these dudes say now , pity I have spent hula bucks with them in the past. No more, the sales manager would not even return my calls. BuyRiteDigital….beware – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a variation using CDC http://www.troutflies.com/rofft/cdc/downwing.shtml Tie that in black and you just might have a winner for the Bighorn.

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…. how ’bout this one? http://www.troutflies.com/pictures/flys/spent_caddis/spent_caddis.shtml Yep, that’s the one I had in mind.  Interesting body in the photo.  Herl? Wolfgang

Yep that be herl… you should reinforce the stuff though, rope it, or a thread rib. I find this bug works well on the Yellowstone for some reason. Cutts eat it, but then, they eat lots of things most of the time

Response:

…..Herl? Yep that be herl… you should reinforce the stuff though, rope it, or a thread rib. I find this bug works well on the Yellowstone for some reason. Cutts eat it, but then, they eat lots of things most of the time

Very interesting.  Peacock herl is fascinating stuff.  There are many materials with a vast range of uses in fly tying, but peacock herl is a true standout among them.  It is the only material I know of which virtually guarantees that flies incorporating it will catch fish……there’s just something magic about it.  I have never encountered a fly using peacock herl that is not a good fish catcher. That said, I find it a bit odd to see it in a dry fly.  Herl, by its very nature, floats like a brick.  Unlike many feathers, it is not the least bit hydrophobic…..quite the contrary, it wicks up water so effectively that it is difficult to make it float, even with the best of floatants. Never having seen this fly in action, I would suspect that the wing stays on the surface while the body is submerged.  While this sort of arrangement often makes it hard to keep a fly floating at all, thus causing no end of frustration, it is often VERY appealing to fish.  My own favorite Pass Lake works on the same principle.  I tie it with a chenille body (equally problematic in dry flies) which will occasionally allow the fly to sit on the surface for a short while but inevitably causes the entire body to sink through the meniscus, leaving the wing (at best) to keep the whole damned thing from sinking.  Both trout and panfish frequently find this irresistible. Wolfgang

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now I know that graphite blanks have a *backbone* or *spine* and the line guides are suppose to be lined up in some relative position to that spine, I have long forgotten the details. My first question: Is it possible that the second time around I did not get the guides correctly on the blank? Yes, if you never splined the original or the new tip. How can I check? I’m sure it should match the way it was done on the butt section. Hold the rod out straight (parallel to the ground) and flex it up and down.  When it moves straight up and down, the spline is either on the top or the bottom.  If you notice that the tip and rest of the rod seem to be "out of sync," rotate the tip and see if you can get an obvious straight up and down.

Just to clarify, when you _attempt_ to flex the rod in a vertical plane, if it actually moves slightly off from straight up and down, the spline is not in the vertical plane.  When the spline is in the vertical plane, the rod will move straight up and down, and you then know that the spline is either on the top or bottom. TC, R

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It’s SPINE, not SPLINE, dammit! /daytripper (!)

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It’s SPINE, not SPLINE, dammit!

Er, actually, it’s a poTAto POtato thing…both are widely used, and really, both make about as much sense as the other.  Remember that although there is only one "high point" on the rod, it affects it in a plane. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (!)

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It’s SPINE, not SPLINE, dammit!

How do you know that? I’ve seen the both words used depending on who’s doing the writing. Clemens uses spline in all three of his books on rod building, for example. Willi

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It’s SPINE, not SPLINE, dammit! How do you know that? I’ve seen the both words used depending on who’s doing the writing. Clemens uses spline in all three of his books on rod building, for example.

I’m pretty sure that’s where I picked it up, because IIRC the older guys I originally learned rod "making" from used older bamboo terms like "strong"/"weak flat," "crown(ed)," etc.  I can’t remember if they used "spline," "spine," or either. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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Now I know that graphite blanks have a *backbone* or *spine* and the line guides are suppose to be lined up in some relative position to that spine, I have long forgotten the details.

Have a look here; http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/part7.html My first question: Is it possible that the second time around I did not get the guides correctly on the blank? How can I check? I’m sure it should match the way it was done on the butt section. If I find that I did do it incorrectly, can I fix the rod? How would I remove the old guides without damaging the blank?

Usually yes. It depends how you put the guides on. How do I find the correct place to put new ones on the blank?

See the URL above. TL MC

Response:

Just to clarify, when you _attempt_ to flex the rod in a vertical plane, if it actually moves slightly off from straight up and down, the spline is not in the vertical plane.  When the spline is in the vertical plane, the rod will move straight up and down, and you then know that the spline is either on the top or bottom.

Please clarify, how do I flex the rod? Do I just wiggle it up an down or just press it up against something to bend it down? Hope that doesn’t seem like a silly question. Thanks, Russell

Response:

Now I know that graphite blanks have a *backbone* or *spine* and the line guides are suppose to be lined up in some relative position to that spine, I have long forgotten the details. Have a look here; http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/part7.html

Thanks for the link. Here are a couple of paragraphs from the link: How do you get it right? Simple, you locate the spine of the blank. To do this, place the tip of the rod blank on the floor, hold the butt end with one hand and apply some moderate pressure to the middle of the blank with the index finger of the other hand. With the tip of the blank bent, turn the rod with the hand that

Question:

OH! Shuckie Darn!  I really wasn’t trying to be mean Wolfman.  Just a

Well……hack hack……that’s mighty kind of ya pard…….cough…..hack…..but I’m afraid it’s too late……cough……I think your morbiferous prose has done me proemial manifestations showed up right away…..cough……don’t fret none though……Wayno’s looking into the noxal ramifications…..groan……but by the time the summons arrives I ’spect I’ll have given in to geotaxis…..if ya know what I

Response:

 Last Words     "I know we’re all going to die – there’s three of us who are going to do something about it."   — Thomas Burnett, in a cell phone conversation with his wife before his hijacked plane crashed. This last call, by Tom Burnett to the love  of his life,  represented actually three worthy men who were about to do something marvelous Charlie.  They put their lives on the line to save (without them even knowing it) THE WHITEHOUSE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!   Three men out of nearly three hundred people on four different aircraft stood up to be counted.  My heart and appreciation of these three men will stay with me forever and until the day I die.  I’ve known Marines like this and these are the men who help keep America free. You disgust me Charlie and you deny truths this country should understand if it is to survive in this new world. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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You disgust me Charlie and you deny truths this country should understand if it is to survive in this new world.

You stupid twisted shithead. You have no idea who knew what. The men on the plane over PA *did* know what had happened to the earlier planes and certainly were heros. You limit your praise to just 3 but again you have no fucking clue. I know it is pointless to try to explain even simple things to you, but it is difficult to stand by while anyone, even an obviously insane idiot, maligns good people and their families. You are truly pathetic. — Charlie…

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of these three men will stay with me forever and until the day I die. I’ve known Marines like this and these are the men who help keep America free.

George, I KNOW men who are NOT Marines (as much as I respect and love them, the Marines that is) who would gladly have attempted the same thing. Your pontificating as to the others who may (or may not) have tried to thwart the hijackings is beyond belief. You, sir, are an idiot. And like Op said, I would definitely say this to your face. Like the motto from one of America’s finest naval fighter squadrons…..Anytime, Anyplace Baby. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Last Words     "I know we’re all going to die – there’s three of us who are going to do something about it."

        if only they were *your* last words, instead of that fine man who uttered them.         fuck you, george. a. wayne harrison

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It seems you’re on the side of terrorists Wayne? Kiss it baby. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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It seems you’re on the side of terrorists Wayne?

Regrettably, you don’t appear to be on the side of sanity. May I suggest unwrapping your hand from your dick, taking your medications, and honoring that promise you made to leave ROFF? Oh, wait, "promise, Gerkhe," bad match. — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley

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For the last few years I have mainly lurked on this group and listened to you shoot your mouth off. But when you say that Wayne is on the side of the terrorists you are TALKING THRU YOUR ASS BECAUSE YOUR MOUTH KNOWS BETTER. YOU WOULDN’T KNOW A REAL MAN IF HE JUMPED UP AND BIT YOU IN THE ASS. PLEASE KEEP YOUR PROMISE AND LEAVE ROFF. Kim James

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems you’re on the side of terrorists Wayne? Kiss it baby. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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George, F.O.A.D.

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It seems you’re on the side of terrorists Wayne? Kiss it baby. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

        george, do yourself and all the rest of us a true favor.  sit down and review every single response to every single post you have made in the days since the 9/11 tragedy.  what are these people trying to tell you, george?  without exception, they are doing everything in their literary power to force, or even beg, you to leave this group. you exist here only as a laughing stock or a source of enmity, depending upon your mood and the nature of your posts, 99% of which are mindless drivel.         it is simply amazing that your egomania prevents you from seeing the truth.         where are your supporters, george?  you are a sick, lonely man.  please leave. a.w.h.

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   george, do yourself and all the rest of us a true favor.  sit down and review every single response to every single post you have made in the days since the 9/11 tragedy.  what are these people trying to tell you, george?  without exception, they are doing everything in their literary power to force, or even beg, you to leave this group. you exist here only as a laughing stock or a source of enmity, depending upon your mood and the nature of your posts, 99% of which are mindless drivel.    it is simply amazing that your egomania prevents you from seeing the truth.    where are your supporters, george?  you are a sick, lonely man.  please leave. a.w.h.

I’ve kept myself out of this so far, and after this I will do so again. What he said. PLEASE GO AWAY GEORGE!! —  Charles Davis     K4SWB <<I’m The NRA

Response:

I agree with Wayne, Charlie, Charles and others. Most of us usually just put up with your asinine comments and tolerate the fact that you’re the biggest asshole on ROFF. This time you’ve managed to insult the memories of all who died on those planes with your ill-informed comments. PLEASE, keep your promise to go away and never come back. Maybe we make a deal. You don’t show your ignorant face around her again, and we won’t try and organize a boycott of the fishing products you sell….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last Words "I know we’re all going to die – there’s three of us who are going to do something about it."   — Thomas Burnett, in a cell phone conversation with his wife before his hijacked plane crashed. This last call, by Tom Burnett to the love  of his life,  represented actually three worthy men who were about to do something marvelous Charlie.  They put their lives on the line to save (without them even knowing it) THE WHITEHOUSE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!   Three men out of nearly three hundred people on four different aircraft stood up to be counted.  My heart and appreciation of these three men will stay with me forever and until the day I die. I’ve known Marines like this and these are the men who help keep America free. You disgust me Charlie and you deny truths this country should understand if it is to survive in this new world. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

I bet that screwed up face of yours got that way from being friendly? All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg         well, that one really blew poor wolfie away!  damn, and i really enjoyed some of his stuff… wayno, hoping i’m not next!

cough, cough, hack, sputter…….he hurt me wayno……i…..i…..cough, cough…..groan…..uncle wally……is that you? Wolfgang hanging on by a thread in the probably vain hope that the restorative waters of the great smokies will restore my wa.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bet that screwed up face of yours got that way from being friendly? All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg         well, that one really blew poor wolfie away!  damn, and i really enjoyed some of his stuff… wayno, hoping i’m not next! cough, cough, hack, sputter…….he hurt me wayno……i…..i…..cough, cough…..groan…..uncle wally……is that you?

OH! Shuckie Darn!  I really wasn’t trying to be mean Wolfman.  Just a sick sense of humor.  Remember this ole siren, even an ugly duckling turns into a SWAN! Thing is, you’re just like them when they fly.  Flap, flap, flap . . . Me?  I can’t even get off the ground.  Frogs can’t fly. Which reminds me.  Do you know the difference beween a frog and a horny frog? YOU:  "No George.  What’s the difference between a regular frog and a horny frog? A regular frog goes, "Rib-it!  RIB-IT!"  A horny frog goes, "Rub-it! RUB-IT!" Hang tough Wolfgang. Wolfgang hanging on by a thread in the probably vain hope that the restorative waters of the great smokies will restore my wa.

Just look for the frogs Wolfgang. George who hangs around rivers

Response:

I bet that screwed up face of yours got that way from being friendly? All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

        well, that one really blew poor wolfie away!  damn, and i really enjoyed some of his stuff… wayno, hoping i’m not next!

Response:

I bet that screwed up face of yours got that way from being friendly? All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

It seems you’re on the side of terrorists Wayne? Kiss it baby. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

wayno, I apologize for stepping on your toes…and sure, it may be a troll… I almost wish I wasn’t doing this, but after a long, hard week, I was treated with a civilised drink, dinner, wine, and all the trimmings, including several after-dinner drinks, just me and my SO – well, mostly, anyway.  Blame it on exhaustion, or simply having had enough of it all, but George, I feel downright psychic – if I ever have the displeasure of coming face to face with you, I can see you shitting teeth, dentures, or whatever else fills the sorry cakehole that passes for your mouth.

Response:

Do you doubt truth?

I’ll bet you sometimes wonder where those teeth marks on your ass come from, right? Wolfgang cowering in anticipation of the blithering retort

Response:

I sincerely hope those are his final words.

Response:

Do you doubt truth? All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

Maybe we make a deal. You don’t show your ignorant face around her again, and we won’t try and organize a boycott of the fishing products you sell….

Oops.  Too late. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

You know Wayne, it is amazing to many who stalk Roff around the world that you along with other Easterners (and they know who they are) that "your click of trollers" have been figured out a long time now.  Some things you say is not true.  Yes, have specific opinions about matters regarding the World Trade Center but they are only opinions.  That it is my opinion that the terrorists on all four aircraft should have been challenged and fought with by the male population (customers) on those flights remains intact.  I cannot accept any excuse, even in the face of death or getting hurt that more men didn’t challenge them. Of course I wasn’t there, of course you weren’t there, but my opinions are just as justifiable as yours or anyone else’s.   I

Question:

Congratulations Dave

Response:

BTW: When replying to Codmarines posts we should use something other than "[snip]" to indicate we shortened the message

Auuuughhh! — Michael Era

Question:

Sounds like heaven to me.. I’ll join you in spirit, probably while casting big streamers for Dutch pike in lousy weather. Have fun, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was going to email this only to those that have expressed interest in Fall Ball but, what the hell, it’s slow around here and it may be of passing interest even if you have no intention of attending. These fishing get-togethers tend to defy organization, which is as it should be. Nobody wants to put up with too much organizing. Basically those in attendance show up at the Alarka Creek house sometime in the evening, partner up and pick streams for the next day. It’s not good to have too many folks on the same stream and everybody should get a chance to fish Hazel Creek but those things work themselves out. It would be nice to have one time during the week when everyone in attendance is at the same spot at the same time preferably to break bread together. I had thought of a dinner at the Fryemont Inn on Friday night but getting everybody together for dinner can be a problem. If the hatch starts coming off at 7:30 and you’re supposed to be at a dinner back in town at 8:00… well, you get the idea. We had some very late arrivals at the ‘Clave pig-pickin’ because some folks just didn’t want to leave the stream. So, how about I float this idea. Four miles up Noland Creek, where Mill Creek comes in, is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The Park Service has picnic tables, an outhouse and a hitchin’ rack up there. I propose a picnic lunch sandwiched between a morning & afternoon of fishing Noland Creek. There’s 4 miles of good water both below and above Solola Valley and Mill Creek holds trout too. Should be enough water for everyone if we pair up & spread out. The only problem I could anticipate, besides the weather, is that some don’t want to hike in 4 miles to a picnic and then hike 4 miles out. The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

        sweet jesus, surely you don’t mean "bryson city billy’s", home of the hot mustangs.  as i recall, their motto is, "grab your hat and ass, boys, and watch ‘is!"

Umm, you seem to be confusing the stable with the whorehouse. "Bryson City Billy’s", Home of the Hot Mustangs, is the whorehouse.         at all costs, avoid a black stallion called "diablo", and a meek looking bay named "sadie".  instant death.

Sadie was the one you were with when the vibrating bed went on the ooow, never mind. As I recall the story, Diablo was black, sure enough, but definitely NOT a stallion. More like 300 lbs. of the meanest whore in North Carolina carrying a torch for Pamlico Jim. Last I heard you two were no longer welcome at "Bryson City Billy’s" because of that incident with the preacher, the vibrator and the hot water heater blowing up. They may have forgotten about it by now, though. — Ken Fortenberry- Historian and friend of the geriatric set

Response:

They have a new one called "Cowboy Killer" in from Nevada I understand. DaveS

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes:

(plans snipped) <<Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Wonderful idea, Ken.  I could do the 4 miles on foot, but it would take me awhile, and Jo would surely chew me out if she found out.  But horses?  I like the way you think.  Only trouble is, I haven’t been on one since my early 20s.  These *are* docile animals, right? Dave L.

Response:

…  But horses?  I like the way you think.  Only trouble is, I haven’t been on one since my early 20s.  These *are* docile animals, right?

Early 20’s would be what, 2-3 years ago ? We’ll have the wranglers trot out old swayback Sadie for you Dave, gentle as a lamb and rides like you’re in a big fluffy recliner. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken F: <<Early 20’s would be what, 2-3 years ago ? We’ll have the wranglers trot out old swayback Sadie for you Dave, gentle as a lamb and rides like you’re in a big fluffy recliner. You sweet talkin’ sumbitch!  <g  I’ll get out the yeller pages and take a lesson or two afore I get there.  Sounds good to me. Dave LaCourse

Response:

The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek.

        sweet jesus, surely you don’t mean "bryson city billy’s", home of the hot mustangs.  as i recall, their motto is, "grab your hat and ass, boys, and watch ‘is!"         at all costs, avoid a black stallion called "diablo", and a meek looking bay named "sadie".  instant death.         hope you guys make it. wayno the concerned – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Was going to email this only to those that have expressed interest in Fall Ball but, what the hell, it’s slow around here and it may be of passing interest even if you have no intention of attending. These fishing get-togethers tend to defy organization, which is as it should be. Nobody wants to put up with too much organizing. Basically those in attendance show up at the Alarka Creek house sometime in the evening, partner up and pick streams for the next day. It’s not good to have too many folks on the same stream and everybody should get a chance to fish Hazel Creek but those things work themselves out. It would be nice to have one time during the week when everyone in attendance is at the same spot at the same time preferably to break bread together. I had thought of a dinner at the Fryemont Inn on Friday night but getting everybody together for dinner can be a problem. If the hatch starts coming off at 7:30 and you’re supposed to be at a dinner back in town at 8:00… well, you get the idea. We had some very late arrivals at the ‘Clave pig-pickin’ because some folks just didn’t want to leave the stream. So, how about I float this idea. Four miles up Noland Creek, where Mill Creek comes in, is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The Park Service has picnic tables, an outhouse and a hitchin’ rack up there. I propose a picnic lunch sandwiched between a morning & afternoon of fishing Noland Creek. There’s 4 miles of good water both below and above Solola Valley and Mill Creek holds trout too. Should be enough water for everyone if we pair up & spread out. The only problem I could anticipate, besides the weather, is that some don’t want to hike in 4 miles to a picnic and then hike 4 miles out. The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

I’m scheduled the weekend before the Canadian Thanksgiving, October 10th.

I mean the weekend *of* Thanksgiving – can’t read a damn calendar anymore. Peter

Response:

Peter Charles: (snip) <<"Son, I can bring you to the fish, but *you* have to catch’em."  Must be a real guide, eh? Sounds about right.  He left out the part about leaving his ears intact.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Peter Charles: <<"Son, I can bring you to the fish, but *you* have to catch’em."  Must be a real guide, eh? Sounds about right.  He left out the part about leaving his ears intact.  <g

You must hear that a lot, Dave… /daytripper ;^)

Response:

Tripper : <Sounds about right.  He left out the part about leaving his ears intact.  <g

You must hear that a lot, Dave… /daytripper ;^) Heh, heh, heh.  When I am in Labrador with one of the grand kids, we (the guide and I) always place the guide to the left of the grand son.  When we putt-putt up river, the guide is in the middle and Jeff or Brian is in the stern.  When we float down river bow first, we reverse locations.  One guide actually said "Shift" when we were to make the transition.  <g See you up there the week of the 6th?  I’ll have a six pack of Sleeman’s.  Hafta save the rest for the NC Gang in October. Dave L.

Response:

[snip] See you up there the week of the 6th?  I’ll have a six pack of Sleeman’s.  Hafta save the rest for the NC Gang in October.

It’s looking good so far. I have to move my younger son into his college dorm on the 5th, the older one doesn’t leave for London ’til the 20th, so I should be able to come up for a few days at least. How many are you going to be? Need a bunky, Bunky? ;^) fwiw: Had a lovely day in Wellfleet, and now I’m sitting on a deck chair clicking away under starlight, accompanied by the sounds of the sea. Opus the Wonderlab is conked out against my feet, a cool Dundee’s rests within reach. Very nice indeed. /daytripper

Response:

Tripper: <<Had a lovely day in Wellfleet, and now I’m sitting on a deck chair clicking away under starlight, accompanied by the sounds of the sea. Opus the Wonderlab is conked out against my feet, a cool Dundee’s rests within reach. Ahaaa, a Dundee’s.  I have converted another. I invited wayno up, but I haven’t heard from him.  I think he’s still in St. Louis.  Jo isn’t going — she’s heading to Georgia for a family reunion.  Just me and Henry.  Room for more if you wish.  I tied up something that I think will be a killer.  Will show you up there.  I had problems with it (parachute), but Peter set me right.  I still have two mountain bikes up there, so if you come, don’t bother with your’s.                         I need to do some fishing! Dave

Response:

I invited wayno up, but I haven’t heard from him.  I think he’s still in St. Louis.  Jo isn’t going — she’s heading to Georgia for a family reunion.   Dave

ok now dave…surely you’ve noticed something here, eh?  wayno in st. louis, jo headed to georgia???  hmmm… <ggg jeff

Response:

Jeff Miller: <<ok now dave…surely you’ve noticed something here, eh?  wayno in st. louis, jo headed to georgia???  hmmm… <ggg   <BSEG  Jo isn’t going to Georgia until September.  Besides, wayno loves life.  Course, you could come also.  The alewifes will be running and the salmon going crazy over them. Dave L.

Response:

Charlie Choc: <<ok now dave…surely you’ve noticed something here, eh?  wayno in st. louis, jo headed to georgia???  hmmm… <ggg

Shhhhhhh<g. — Charlie… You forgot the "iiiiitttttttt".  <g Dave…

Response:

dave –  fished the ale-wife streams during my younger years…but the ale-husbands always got tangled in my line…now, i’m absolutely content in the nc trout streams…but, i’ve been talkin to pj about takin a look at Maine next year.  we’ve never been that far north.  do we need a visa? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff Miller: <<ok now dave…surely you’ve noticed something here, eh?  wayno in st. louis, jo headed to georgia???  hmmm… <ggg   <BSEG  Jo isn’t going to Georgia until September.  Besides, wayno loves life.  Course, you could come also.  The alewifes will be running and the salmon going crazy over them. Dave L.

Response:

Jeff Miller: <<dave –  fished the ale-wife streams during my younger years…but the ale-husbands always got tangled in my line…now, i’m absolutely content in the nc trout streams…but, i’ve been talkin to pj about takin a look at Maine next year.  we’ve never been that far north.  do we need a visa? Visa?  No, but you should probably put a leash on PJ once you get into Pennsylvania or New York.  <g  I was thinking about old PJ this morning and his come back when I said I was gonna kick his ass.  He said, "Better bring your lunch."  LOL.  Hell, I think I’d need a catoring truck.  <g   I hope you can both make it next year. Oh, yeah……. if you drive up, *you* drive.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been having pretty good luck on the Grand with streamers lately. The water is high and off colour so the dry acttion is very slow and I’m not much of a nympher.  (BTW, is a female angler who nymphs, a nymphette?)  Anyway, I’m out slugging streamers with my six weight and I’ve taken a few fish when I notice a few rises, nothing regular but things are starting to happen. At about 6:30, I notice the water is literally carpeted with trico spinners.  Every square foot must have between 20 to 50 of the little buggers.  Now the browns are rising regularly but with so many naturals, will I stand a chance? A small fish was working a seam and I put a few casts over him, directly through his window, but no dice.  My ties are size 22 and the naturals are about a 24, so I use my clippers to reduce the wings.  I add on about 3′ of 7X to my 9′ leader and start looking for a new victim. While I was doing the manicure thing, a huge brown makes a massive rise about 75′ upstream.  But that’s it, nothing more.  So I concentrate on a small one working another seam in front of me.  After about 30 casts, the little guy finally takes it and I land a nice, bright 8" brown. I work my way upstream toward the big one but she doesn’t show herself again.  A nice sized fish is working regularly so I decide to go after him instead.  Now things get difficult.  First off, I’m trying to short cast a #22 on a 12′ 7X leader with my stout six weight streamer rod – not good.  Second problem, the trout is not working a seam, rather he’s drifting around a big flat and his rises are neither regular nor consistently in the same spot.  Without belabouring things, I cast to this bugger for an hour.  There are so many naturals on the water that many times I think he’s taken the fly when he’s really taken a natural that was riding beside it.  Twice I think I’ve bumped him and put him down, but the dining is too good and he never pauses.  Since he has no rhythym, I’m often in midcast when he comes up.  Sometimes I have the pleasure of watching my fly drift through the spreading rings of his rise it having arrived two seconds too late. Finally I realize that is fish has got the better of me so I make the decision to try ten more casts then call it quits.  Ten nothing . . . nine nothing . . . then on number six, he takes it.  After a short but stubborn fight I land him, a nice 11" brown. This is one of those evenings that will stay stuck in my memory for a long time.  A finicky fish, an absolutely massive trico spinner fall, and finally scoring when I had decided to quit.  Just to add to the evening, I crossed Bronte Creek on the way home and ran into a trico snowstorm on the bridge — yeeeuuch what a mess. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

Peter Charles: (great story snip) <<Just to add to the evening, I crossed Bronte Creek on the way home and ran into a trico snowstorm on the bridge — yeeeuuch what a mess. May have been a mess, Peter, but it was an enjoyable read.  <g When is your float trip down the Grand? Dave LaCourse

Response:

At about 6:30, I notice the water is literally carpeted with trico spinners.  Every square foot must have between 20 to 50 of the little buggers.  Now the browns are rising regularly but with so many naturals, will I stand a chance?

I’m going down to Silver Creek to fish the trico hatch this morning. Here’s the way it works there. (Repeating something I posted a few days ago.) When the spinner fall starts — which can be truly massive — pods of large fish start feeding together. They don’t rise to individual flies. They just stay on the surface, with their heads sweeping back and forth, gulping large numbers of flies. If you’re lucky or knowledgeable enough to be above one of these pods it gets really exciting. You have to present the fly downstream right into a fish’s mouth. They won’t budge for an individual fly. The fish are so gluttonous at this point that if you put down the pod with a clumsy take-up they’re back to feeding in just a few seconds. There are trico spinner patterns but I don’t use them because I can’t see them. I use the much more visible dun pattern, which seems to work fine. With so many flies the fish don’t inspect each one with their customary finickyness. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

… This is one of those evenings that will stay stuck in my memory for a long time.  A finicky fish, an absolutely massive trico spinner fall, and finally scoring when I had decided to quit. …

Very nice. Thanks for the play by play. Fishing the spinner fall is one of the more challenging exercises in fishing the small fly. Nice to know that SOMEONE can have success at it, and with a 6wt to boot ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

When is your float trip down the Grand? Dave LaCourse

I’m scheduled the weekend before the Canadian Thanksgiving, October 10th.  Scott is included and Barney Jones, co-owner of Grindstone Angling, will be our guide.  Knowing full well his reaction, I asked Barney if he will get us into fish.  He put his arm around me in a fatherly fashion and said, "Son, I can bring you to the fish, but *you* have to catch’em."  Must be a real guide, eh? Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going down to Silver Creek to fish the trico hatch this morning. Here’s the way it works there. (Repeating something I posted a few days ago.) When the spinner fall starts — which can be truly massive — pods of large fish start feeding together. They don’t rise to individual flies. They just stay on the surface, with their heads sweeping back and forth, gulping large numbers of flies. If you’re lucky or knowledgeable enough to be above one of these pods it gets really exciting. You have to present the fly downstream right into a fish’s mouth. They won’t budge for an individual fly. The fish are so gluttonous at this point that if you put down the pod with a clumsy take-up they’re back to feeding in just a few seconds. There are trico spinner patterns but I don’t use them because I can’t see them. I use the much more visible dun pattern, which seems to work fine. With so many flies the fish don’t inspect each one with their customary finickyness.

I wish they had been feeding this way; it would have made life simple. No these fish were rising as if they were targeting individuals. There could have been as much as a minute between rises and the fish were widely scattered.  Totally different behaviour from what you described.  I guess this is part of what makes this business so interesting. Peter

Response:

Question:

Has anybody flown into Dutch John airport in Utah? I want to fly there to fish the Green River. I would be flying from Jeffco (BJC) in Denver in a Piper Archer. Just curious about any wierd situations or oddities of the airport. Any info would be appreciated.

Response:

Has anybody flown into Dutch John airport in Utah? I want to fly there to fish the Green River. I would be flying from Jeffco (BJC) in Denver in a Piper Archer. Just curious about any wierd situations or oddities of the airport. Any info would be appreciated.

I fly in to Dutch John about twice a year to fish.  Elevation is 6500 feet, runway is 7000 feet.  Last time I was in there, it had a chip coat (where they put down heavy oil and roll in gravel) so it is relatively hard surface.  Runway is plenty wide, should be no problem.  The folks that run the FBO also rent rafts, and will take you down and put you in the water in the morning and pick you up at Little Hole is the evening. Some of the best fly fishing in the west.  YOu can stay at the Flaming Gorge Lodge (I think they will pick up at the airport) or you can camp over in the "ponderosas" on the south side of the strip.  Suggest you be very careful with fire over there especially later in the year, but its a beautiful place to camp …. plenty big. Your biggest hassle is getting over the Rockies, from there its all down hill.  Suggest via Meeker, Vernal or direct.  I fly over from SLC, takes about 45 minutes in my 172/180. Enjoy — (:<)  Things are more like they are today than they have ever been before !

Response:

Question:

I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

Response:

I bought an Aquaterra Swing last fall and have only fished out of it twice.  On both occasions, however, it has proved to be a very stable craft, quiet, and easy to paddle.  The one drawback is that you will get wet, so it’s much more comfortable in warm weather/water.  Of course, you could wear waders or a wet suit. I have yet to try it in moving water, but would think it would operate quite nicely in moderate flows. Regards,  -William Ivey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

Response:

I thought of rigging outriggers to a regular kayak so you could stand while flyfishing if you desired. Anyone ever try this. MichaelSmith

Response:

I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

        I use an SOT for tooling around in the reservoirs and impoundments of central Virginia, and I have a blast.  I can duck into really shallow areas, and can portage the boat and my rod fairly easily.  My only trouble has been the occasional hooking of the bow hardware; it is really tough to pull any flies out without beaching.  However, I feel more stable in the SOT (don’t flame me-that is just a PERSONAL preference, not a condemnation of canoes), so I prefer it to a canoe.  Since SOTs are so responsive to the paddle, almost as much as a traditional kayak, I havesome  problems using mine in moving water and fishing at the same time.  I tend to get wrapped up in one or the other, so I can’t get both done.  However, from my days living in Houston, I remember some of the central Texas rivers like the Guadalupe are relatively slow, like our local river-fed impoundments.  By all means try it; I have a blast with mine. Dan Johnson

Response:

I have been kayaking for several years, and have both sea and whitewater boats.  I often fish from my sea kayak.  As far as SOT’s go, they are the fastest growing segment in kayaking, so if you don’t like what’s out there now, wait until next year.  Best advice is visit the nearest dealer that carries the major brands of SOT’s (Aquaterra, Dagger, Ocean Kayak), and paddle them all — take your gear and see how it fits on and in the boat.  See how stable/unstable it is while casting.  Any good dealer will spend the time with you so you get what you want.   Most likely you will find a short touring boat best for lakes and moving water up to Class II rapids.  Whitewater SOT’s will be too tippy and not track well enough for you to enjoy on lakes, but paddle them anyway — find out for yourself.  You may want to consider a high quality inflatable kayak like AIRE, SOAR, or Northwest River Supplies — packable, durable, responsive, stable as heck.  Good luck.

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for the names (and contact info) of good fishing catalog companies. I have Pro Bass, Orvis and Cabelas. Can anybody help me with the names, etc. of any other good ones? Thanks. David Laylin            Electronics for Small Watercraft             Tel: 800 760 0004       Web Site: http://www.infi.net/~spdtech

Response:

FeatherCraft Flyfishing in St. Louis is really terrific. They send you a couple of very complete and entertaining catalogs per year, prices are good, and they are very helpful on the phone. Phone:800-659-1707 Kaufmann’s Streamborn is very good (800-442-4359). Hunter’s Angling Supply (800-331-8558). Hook and Hackle (800-552-8342). Blue Ribbon Flies (406-646-7642). Hope these help.

Response:

I got this several months ago, hope it helps. Fishing Catalogs/Resource List  This is a list of free fishing catalogs. It is permanently available for   machine: ftp.ofps.ucar.edu [128.117.90.53]     login: anonymous      file: /pub/john/catalogs.txt The URL for that is   ftp://ftp.ofps.ucar.edu/pub/john/catalogs.txt As far as I know, the information is accurate, but I haven’t gotten all the catalogs listed so don’t hold me liable for your phone bills! Those of you outside the U.S. may have to pay a shipping charge just to get the "free" catalog. Remember to add any necessary long distance or country codes, etc that are peculiar to your location and/or long distance phone company. Please send any additions or corrections along to me at  I’ve collected these entries from various sources. Any comments of mine or one of the contributors are also given. Nothing is guarranteed to be correct. I have no connection with any of these companies. Have fun fishing! John Allison — Free Catalogs: AA Proshop RD 1 Box 78 White Haven PA 18661 800-443-8119 Access to Recreation, Inc (fishing, shooting, living aids for the disabled) 2509 E Thousand Oaks Blvd Suite 430 Thousand Oaks CA 91362-3227 800-634-4351 805-498-8186 fax Angler’s (ffing gift ideas, no `real’ equipment) 4955 East 2900 North Murtaugh ID 83344 800-657-8040 (voice 9-5 Mtn time, or fax) 208-432-6625 (voice 9-5 Mtn time, or fax) The Anglers Art (this address or the next one?) PO Box 148C Plainfield PA 17081 800-848-1020 The Anglers Art—Books for Fly Fishermen (this address or the previous one?) 854 Opossum Lake Rd Carlisle PA 17013 800-848-1020 717-243-8603 fax The Bass Pond PO Box 82 Littleton CO 80160-0082 800-327-5014 303-730-8932 fax Bass Pro Shops (multiple catalogs) (see also White River below) 1935 S Campbell Springfield MO 65898-0001 800-BASS PRO 800-227-7776 417-881-3567 800-442-5788 TDD 417-887-2531 fax Cabela’s (general fishing and hunting) (special flyfishing only catalog also) 812 13th Ave Sidney NE 69160 800-237-4444 (US and Canada) 308-234-5555 308-254-2200 fax 800-695-5000 TDD Capt Harry’s Fishing Supply (saltwater, yearly color catalog) 100 NE 11TH St Miami FL 33132 800-327-4088 305-374-3713 fax Charlie Richter’s Fly Shop (small local Miami shop with info/supplies for that area) 472 NE 125th St North Miami FL 33161 800-866-0763 305-893-6663 Cold Spring Anglers (419 East High Street, Suite A) PO Box 129 Carlisle PA 17013-0129 800-248-8937 (M-Sat 9-5 Eastern, Sun 12-5) 717-245-2646 717-245-2081 fax Contact Central Sales Inc. (cheap accessories) 6770 N 43rd St Milwaukee WI 53209 800-353-5501 orders 414-353-4050 info 414-353-4605 fax Dan Bailey’s Fly Shop PO Box 1019 Livingston MT 59047 800-356-4052 406-222-1673 406-222-8450 fax Dunn’s (camping, hunting, backpacking, not much fishing) Hwy 57E PO Box 449 Grand Junction TN 38039 800-223-8667 orders 800-367-2940 service 901-764-6503 fax E. Hille The Angler’s Supply House, Inc. (good for rod building materials) 815 Railway Street PO Box 996 Williamsport PA 17701 800-326-6612 FeatherCraft FlyFishing (maybe named National FeatherCraft ?) PO Box 19904 St Louis MO 63144 800-659-1707 314-963-7876 Fisherman’s Shack (salmon, steelhead, trout; spinner building) 9465 Airlie Road Monmouth OR 97361 800-428-1499 voice orders 9am-5pm; fax 5pm-9am 503-838-6395 voice Fishermans Tackle Shop (Saltwater) (maybe $3) 2838 Garrison Street San Diego CA 92106 800-566-0273 619-221-8506 619-222-0799 fax Fly & Field 560 Crescent Blvd. Glen Ellyn IL 60137 800-328-9753 The Fly Shop 4140 Churn Creek Road Redding CA 96002 800-669-FISH 800-669-3474 Frank Amato Publications (9 – 5 Pacific time) 800-541-9498 Gander Mountain Inc. (multiple catalogs) PO Box 248 Wilmot WI 53192 800-558-9410 (US and Canada) 414-862-2331 ext 2123 (foreign orders) 800-533-2828 fax 414-862-2330 fax 800-558-3554 TDD 800-5

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat.

Randall Kaufmann’s Dry Fly Book has several variations. I simply use a peacock herl body and a palmered black hackle. When the spirit moves me, I put on a CDC or polywing single wing. -Dave

Response:

: Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many : book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the : Black Gnat. : Au plaisir de vous lire, : Denis Lamy : Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada) : ~~~ :  * VbReader 2.22 #67 * Il en nait un toutes les minutes. P.T.Barnum Bonjour, Le Griffiths gnat est tres simple… Ok, so my French is not up to speed, but basically you just tie on a body of peacock herl and then palmer the hackle (usually grizzly looks best) over the body.  Very easy fly, I think it is particularly effective with a slightly over-sized hackle. Regards

Response:

Hook 94840 16-22 Materials – peacock hurl, grizzley hackle attach hackle then hurl at bend of hook, close wrap hurl forward to head, palmer hackle through hurl, tie off and extremely small head. represents a midge orgy. gink it up and fish it as a dry, or fish it as an emerger.  Easy to tie fly that works when the midges are too small to match. I’ve used it successfully on South Platte, Green, San Juan, Big Horn, Frying Pan rivers, brookie streams and ponds, blue gill lakes and most other places I have fished Tight Lines Mark

Response:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat.

Simple: #16-22 fine wire dry fly hook black thread peacock herl body grizzly hackle (size 2X hook gape) – palmered through body /dave

Response:

This is from the Universal Fly Tying Guide by Dick Stewart, 2nd Edition (a nice book). HOOK – Standard dry fly; sizes 14 to 22 THREAD – Black TAIL – None BODY – Peacock herl WING – None HACKLE – Grizzly, wrapped over the herl body RIB – Fine gold wire (optional) COMMENT – This fly pattern has proved to be a very effective imitation of           small, dark midges. Good Luck! Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Go Owls!

Response:

I saw a variation of the griffith’s gnat at a fly shop on the Bighorn River and it out fishes the traditional pattern.  To tie the griffith’s gnat ala Bighorn, palmer a brown hackle in with the grizzley hackle (like an adams).  Try it, you’ll like it. Kent Fishman

Response:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat. Randall Kaufmann’s Dry Fly Book has several variations. I simply use a peacock herl body and a palmered black hackle. When the spirit moves me, I put on a CDC or polywing single wing. -Dave

What is a griffiths gnat?

Response:

It is the Main Branch of the Swift River that is the tailwater of the Quabbin.  The east branch feeds into the reservoir about 6 miles north.

Whoops! You are correct, sir ;^) I oughta know better than that… /dave (Swift River Irregular) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Hi,     I try to fish the G. Gnat with flotant applied only to the top of the fly.  This way it is half submurged.  But as you can see by all the replies there are so many ways.  Experiment.  Good luck…                                         …Steven

Response:

Hi,
    I try to fish the G. Gnat with flotant applied only to the top
of the fly.  This way it is half submurged.  But as you can see by
all the replies there are so many ways.  Experiment.  Good luck…
                                   …Steven

Trim the hackle off of the bottom of the G. Gnat with your tippet clipper when you want it to float lower. Looks like an emerger this way. Don’t put floatant on it at all. Looks like a nymph this way. Load it up with floatant. Looks like a mating ball of midges this way. Tie it with a red or yellow or green floss mid section. I call it a Royal Gnat. Fish it as an attractor. Instead of the standard peacock body, use different colored dubbing. Olive or brown is a real good producer for me. Believe it or not, blue bodied brown hackled G. Gnat have caught many fish when nothing else has. As you can tell, I fish the G. Gnat a lot, and have caught many fish with. It even works on carp, even though that’s not what I’m usually fishing for. This is one of the most versatile flies invented. Don’t go fishing without them. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

Grease the leader  and fish dead drift down stream. I like to clip the bottom hackle off letting the fly float lower in the water. I fish this in July and August.  Works good!!!! Dave Grand Rapids Mi.

Response:

Fish it dry, with a long leader. You will find the take very subtle. Works well at dusk which makes it very hard to see the take. Sometimes you’ll have to set the hook in reaction to the riseform, or even the sound of a slurp. Usually you’ll need a downstream drift, as the water will be quiet, and the trout finicky.

Response:

: I’ve also fished small (20-24) Griffith’s Gnats both dry and using the greased : leader technique. It’s a particularly deadly performer on the East Branch of : the Swift River (central Massachusetts) which is known for the tiny : still-water bugforms that spew from Quabbin Rsvr… It is the Main Branch of the Swift River that is the tailwater of the Quabbin.  The east branch feeds into the reservoir about 6 miles north.

Response:

I’ve also fished small (20-24) Griffith’s Gnats both dry and using the greased leader technique. It’s a particularly deadly performer on the East Branch of the Swift River (central Massachusetts) which is known for the tiny still-water bugforms that spew from Quabbin Rsvr… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Many times I have seen fish short rise to the gnat, or inspect and then reject it.  When this happens I tug the fly so that it breaks the surface and I then fish it immediately under the surface.  I have had many fish break me off because of the voracity of the strike. rfb

Response:

When I lived in Montana I used it strictly as a dry for Whitefish on the Big Hole.  It’s funny how you somtimes think a fly only works a particular way.  Now that I live in Alaska I use it for Grayling on the surface, just under the surface, mid-level, and on the bottom (although I’ve never weighted one).  Peacock herl is a Grayling slayer (pardon the term).  I remember one day last year where after 50 or so fish the hackle was unspun, so was most of the pecock herl, and the fly just slowly sank every time it landed.  It didn’t sink for long though.  A Grayling would inevitably snatch it up before it got too far.  After about 100 or so fish I sank it deep into my vest as a reminder that rules are ment to be broken.

Response:

writes: A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer
to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish

this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot?
— –Mark Camara
  Dept EPO Biology — CB 334
  U.Colorado, Boulder 80309

No it’s not a stupid question… I have had fairly good success fishing a Griffith’s Gnat both ways. The larger ones (14 or 16) work well as a nymph or wet fly, and the smaller ones work well as a dry fly. I guess the secret is to be able to recognize when to fish them wet or dry. Just as an aside, a few months ago I wrote about an incident which happened to me. My wife was fishing with me and decided to use an elk hair caddis. She didn’t know you were supposed to put floatant on it, and it got soggy and sank. She ended up catching more and bigger fish than everyone else that day. I guess the bottom line is don’t get locked into what the fly is supposed to do, experiment with it. You might surprise yourself. Darryl

Response:

: A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer : to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot? : — : –Mark Camara Mark, I think the beauty of the griffiths gnat is that it can be fished in several different ways.  I have had the best luck with size 18-22 tied with slightly oversized hackles fished dry.  I think they represent small midges very well, but float a little better and are more visible. They can also be fished below the surface using a method similar to what you would use for a wooly bugger or wooly worm. I fished them dry up on the Poudre last fall and had fantastic success.   Darin

Response:

A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot? — –Mark Camara   Dept EPO Biology — CB 334   U.Colorado, Boulder 80309

Response: