Question:

Fished my favorite local stream today.  Testing out the back after the new treatment.  WOO WOO!  Fished for five hours and my only complaint was cold feet (as in, "who switched my feet for these bricks"). Got to the Patapsco, below Daniels Dam (Old Fredrick Rd turnout) at about 8 a.m.  Water was 48 degrees, air about 50, foggy with a light breeze. I walked up to my favorite pool and started casting a size 14 wooly bugger. After two 10 inch stocker rainbows in the riffle, I started up a conversation with an older gentleman on the walking path.  Turns out that he is a "retired" fly fisherman who can no longer wade due to two artificial hips and some heart problems.  The sun had come out and he pointed out some fish rising in the next pool down.  He then "guided" me into position by spotting my traverse across the stream.  I stayed wonderfully dry because of him. With his advice, I got into perfect position behind a rock.  I was high enough out of the water to make a decent cast, but shielded from the fishes view by the rock.  There were about twenty fish rising in a 20 foot circle. I looked on the water and saw some tiny size 30 black gnats floating by. Well, didn’t have anything that small, so settled on a 22 Griffiths Gnat. No dice.  They splashed all around it.  I retied on the black wooly bugger, but again, no joy.  I then remembered a fly in my box that I learned about whilst inspecting the Pirate’s Dry Fly Larder (the man will never again have to tie a dry).  It was a size 16 parachute Hare’s Ear.  Chaching!  These guys couldn’t get enough of it.  About every third to fifth cast I was into another fish.  One fish was still bleeding slightly in the other side of the mouth from where I had hooked him before. Man, I love stupid fish.  Even got a very confused smallie (still had his winter coat on). When the action slowed down, I looked up and the gentleman was still there, sitting on a log.  I offered him my rod, but he refused.  He didn’t buy a license and was "adding a bit of English to my casts."  We chatted for a bit more and then the fish started rising again.  When action eased, I looked up and he was gone.  I want to thank him and all other "stream side angels." He was indeed fishing without a license, but my license worked for him, because I became his arms and legs for just a bit.  My cast straightened out, my fly selection was spot on and the fish were fearless.  I firmly believe that more than words pass between master and apprentice and today, while fishing that little circle of fish, that connection with this nameless gentleman, with the Pirate, with old Floyd Turnbull who took me fishing as a kid, and many, many others, was made. I sat on that pool all morning.  Others came by and said those were the only rising fish in two miles of river.  I sat on a rock and had my sandwich with my line in the water (still my pool, dammit!).  While sitting there, a huge (for the Patapsco) trout, about 18-20 inches, flashed about ten feet out from the rock.  I sat there for a 45 minutes casting everything in my flybox, hare’s ears, pheasant tails, wooly buggers, usuals, biots, nothing worked, even though he continued to flash and dart around.  That ethereal link was still there, but there are some fish that you aren’t meant to catch. A front came through at about one o’clock, clouds, sprinkles and wind.  Shut the fish down.  I didn’t mind.  I’d had a good morning, the fishing lust was sated, and I had reached a new level in my relationship with the water, and, my past. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

……a "retired" fly fisherman who can no longer wade due to two artificial hips and some heart problems.  The sun had come out and he pointed out some fish rising in the next pool down.  He then "guided" me into position by spotting my traverse across the stream…….

What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s

Response:

Fished my favorite local stream today.  Testing out the back after the new treatment.

        (snip)         i am once again reminded of the best argument for the existence of this group–gifts such as that i snipped, above. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Frank Reid wrote…

<snipped a wonderful TR A front came through at about one o’clock, clouds, sprinkles and wind.  Shut the fish down.  I didn’t mind.  I’d had a good morning, the fishing lust was sated, and I had reached a new level in my relationship with the water, and, my past.

Thanks for sharing that Frank.  Gems like that are what keep me coming back here. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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but there are some fish that you aren’t meant to catch.

Boy, that’s an evocative line…thanks for the TR, Frank. – Sid

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What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s

To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

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What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

See, that’s what we love about this place…….no question asked in good faith will go unanswered!     Wolfgang

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What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

Something tells me she’d insist on a strong pre-nup…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank Something tells me she’d insist on a strong pre-nup…

Anything she wants!! Scott

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Fished my favorite local stream today.  

Great story, Frank. That was a special day that I’ll think will stay with you. Willi

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Question:

Tracey <rbranc…@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:3A96A46C.45DF0E68@mediaone.net… > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems. > — > Tracey

My mistake…I suppose there could be occasions where this would not cause problems.  (shudders) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar >                      —Funky Winkerbean—

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Jadelee111512 <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

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I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jadelee111512 wrote: > >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

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Tracey wrote: > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems.

That would be tres cool, if you think about it.  They could sell each other stuff ad nauseam and be filthy rich in no time, right? Ponzi 1, do you take Ponzi 2 to be your lawful wedded… Drew

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> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot

www.amway.com shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to the underworld of amway…)

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Ahhh, I see what it is now. Thanks for the link, btw. In my area we have "Stanley" , I think it’s a lot like Amway. Not my cup a tea. momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shepette wrote: > > I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > > momalot > www.amway.com > shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to > the underworld of amway…)

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ROFLOL ISIS "momalot" <dadalotmoma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3A96B436.6E33A6DB@hotmail.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot > Jadelee111512 wrote: > > >From: "B and B" > > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > > >becoming one. > > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > > >marital problems. > > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > > >> Just a fishing question here. > > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > >> Kevin > > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > > a relationship. > > jadelee

Response:

Run fast and far. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

I agree with that, but Amway is in a class by itself. Amway’s just……… creepy — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Response:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems.

Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Response:

>From: "B and B" >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

Those are examples of a few.  Any high stress job has a potential to effect a marriage. Too many to name.  We are not well prepared to handle the stressors of jobs and marriage. jadelee

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"B and B" wrote: >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

I could see how a lot of travel could grate on a marriage. Mom, for example, got more than just a bit fed up being home alone with the kids while dad was always out on the road selling insurance. He finally had to give it up, trading it in for teaching highschool and regular home hours. On the other hand, a tiny bit of work travel can be good for a marriage. For example, I’m happy for the time I have with my wife, but for the three or four times a year she’s off to trade shows, I enjoy that solitude time as well. As well, there have also been at least a few of her work trips where I’ve come along, we’ve extended our stay, and made a vacation of the situation more economically than if we had to pay the full shot for travel ourselves. So to my own family experiences at least, a lot of occupational travel can add to marital stress, where as a bit of occupational travel can actually be more beneficial to a marital relationship than none at all. CJ

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Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be when I was involved. Thanks for all the response, keep it coming Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Amway > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

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I’ve always had the belief that Amway will ruin a relationship unless both partners are in it 100%. Let me guess – your wife makes next to nothing in real profit, but "will… someday" — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9frefdafcame5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > when I was involved. > Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > Kevin > —– Original Message —– > From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Amway > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

Hi Kevin, I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s together….on NOT.  Figuratively and literally. I hope this is somewhat of an answer for you. — – First Light     @——-We are each of us angels with only one wing; and it’s when we embrace each other that we can fly.—-/—@ "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

The company as a whole is successful. But the people in it, overwhelmingly, are not. They get you in for a year or two, the suckers buy *everything* they use/own through amway, then they realize they are making *zero* monry, and they drop out. They seem to recruit from the lower-middle / middle class mostly. The people easiest to sell "the good life" to, as those people will believe it. The poor usually won’t, and generally won’t have the ambition the follow through (and afford the initial "kit"). But the middle class will put the kit on the credit card, charge a few suits (for the weekly "pump me ups"), and generally feel proud for awhile that they have a "business". They get nice little business cards made, and listen to Zig-Zigler tell them how great life can be. Most of them are smiling on the outside and putting up a successful "front" (wearing clothing and taking trips they cannot afford, so they can "keep up"…. really. I had several friends in Amway. They would charge a new suit, and fly to Florida for a three hour meeting, and fly home the same day. stuff they could hardly afford to do – but Amway made them feel like they couldn’t afford NOT to – it’s a bizzare company). Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. I’ve seen this company close up, and see what it does to people. It’s sad. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99h3mt.4j4.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > * Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > * has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > * or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > * sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > * ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > * other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > * the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > * when I was involved. > That’s interesting. So, what kind of brainswashing do they do? What > kinds of people do they recruit? Why are they successful? > igor > * Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > * > * Kevin > * —– Original Message —– > * From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > * Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > * Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > * Subject: Re: Amway > * > * > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > * CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > * news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail) > * > * > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

Response:

As I’ve seen it described here and as I’ve seen it out here in RL, Amway is a religion of sorts.  It’s things like this that make me jest the concept of religion. ISIS "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99j39n.jm9.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dan Kegel <d…@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: > * First Light wrote: > * > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > * > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > * > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > * > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > * > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > * > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another. Another > * > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > * > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > * > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally. > * > * Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… > * there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things > I have yet to see a "fine" person in MLM. Fine people tend to not like > lying constantly. > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

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Larry Kessler <l_k_e_s_s_l_e_r@w_t_._n_e_t> wrote in message

news:4cee9tksrq1jrfqniogd52t0emakba5sn3@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" > <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Depends on which star trek you are watching.

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"John Kendricks" <jd…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3a99948c.245820765@news.cis.dfn.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) > preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they > want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend > frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing > tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their > friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. > nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. > Here are some good amway-info links: > http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html > http://skepdic.com/amway.html > http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ > http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm > If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or > quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links > could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself > much suffering, misery and agony.

I’ve found that these people who are ‘Quixtar/Amway Critics’ have no credibility at all on the subject, they are usually the most screwed-up-broke-done-nothing-in-life people I’ve ever met. Why on earth would I want to fill my head with a bunch garbage from people who have no credibility in the area of success?  I seriously doubt that these people ‘got in’ then ‘quit’ (actually quit something they probably didn’t put hardly any effort toward) and then when on to be successfull fathers, husbands, entreprenuers, race car drivers or anything.  I bet the the only good things they end up being good at is: justification & rationalization of why they are where they are finanically, complaining, remote control operation and butt print formation (in couch cushions). I’ve seen all sorts of different levels of success in this business opportunity and I’ve seen it actually pull dozens (probably 100s) of marriages together, and these are indirect benefits from any kind of prosperity.  For postive results like these, it requires to a certain amount of effort just like any kind of  business opportunity, job, church, etc. and if a person is too busy (translates to lazy) to apply himself  and put forth effort than he is going to fail. This IS the best business opportunity I have ever seen it provides a level playing field for everyone.  It is structured to make money and the business plan works only if you work it.  Depending upon where you are personally, mentally and emotionally, you may need to learn and develop some personal and business skills that will enable you to build a successful business.  So in order to succeed learn how to learn from someone who has already done what you want to do.  The main goal of business is to make money and this opportunity is a great way to get the money obstacle hurdled in your life unlike most jobs out there.  Jobs are simply not structured to create any kind of wealth for the employee. It IS NOT a religion, if any body tries to enforce their beliefs on you concerning your faith in your creator, they are off base.  This applies to anywhere in life including your boss at your job. Good business is never built on deception and if someone is using any kind of deceptive tactics then you should address this issue directly don’t give up until you are satisfied.  I’ve found that the truly successfull people in this business are very direct, honest and trustworthy; the business is structured so that success is based upon success and it is in nobody’s interest to decieve anybody. If you’re checking out this business, remember to consider the credibility of the person who is providing the information. And make sure to check it out for yourself and don’t listen to broke people or negative attitudes. Good Luck to you in what ever you decide to do -but decide to do something!

Response:

First Light wrote: > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally.

Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things – Dan

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Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. Here are some good amway-info links: http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html http://skepdic.com/amway.html http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself much suffering, misery and agony.

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Just a fishing question here. Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? Kevin

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Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! Stay away!  Stay away!!!! Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not becoming one. Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause marital problems. Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

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>of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it >would cause marital problems.

If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem like it’s a cause of problems. — Tracey Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar                      —Funky Winkerbean—

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: "B and B" >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems. >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… >> Just a fishing question here. >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? >> Kevin

At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within a relationship. jadelee

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Question:

You may want to try The Zig Zag around Rhododendron, and the Salmon River just S. of Hwy 26 for some good trout action, on dry flies, eg size 14-16 elk hair caddis or adams.  Much easier to fish, especially on the Salmon, and lots of trout in the range of 6 to 11 inches.

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Yuf, The Clackamas is a beautiful river to fish.  My friends and I have gone to the Upper Fork and done quite well.  GRHE and Prince Nymph were successful.  We also got about 7-10"ers.  The ones we caught were fun little fighters though. Which made the size kind of non-important.  Close to the bank, I think is the secret of this river, it was also fast where we were fishing it.  There were places where you could fight the trees and shrubs and then there were places where there were lottsa rocks and open.  The fish seemed to bite the best where the trees and branches were, even though it was harder on us! <g Thanks for your report, it sounded like you had fun!! Maybe I’ll get to see you up there some time. Kathy from Beavercreek

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Took yesterday off, and headed into the cascades on the Clackamas highway.  Amazingly, in 70 miles (and fast ones, as the roads to get there are fantastic, once you escape Portland traffic) I was pretty much in midst of the Cascade range.  The Clackamas canyon is very pretty. I fished the Oak Grove Fork of the Clackamas, below Timothy lake. I’d heard it was little fished, and pretty secluded.  It is both, even though I pulled off a nice paved road and walked 40 feet to this roaring stream, a few paces further puts you in what seems like the middle of nowhere.  Not sure how little fished given the camp sites and line strewn about the banks, but there was no one to be seen. What a tough stream to fish!  Cramped quarters, with trees and overhanging vegitation crowding the banks.  Also, it’s very fast, and perhaps high due to a rain (and snow) early this week.  So, for all the watching to avoid snags, and scrambling not to get really wet in really cold water, I did manage to catch a 1/2 dozen tiny coastal cutthroats. What a beautiful fish!  The biggest was probably no more than 7". All were caught on a #14 gold ribbed hare’s ear 5′ below a indicator. Not once did I get a fish due to the indicator – this water was too fast and furious, and they usually hooked themselves. Any hints on how to fish water like this appreciated.  It was truly whitewater.  Perhaps I should just try it when it is lower. Decided after a couple hours that this was way too much work for tiny fish, and drove back along the Clackamas.  Found some open water near a pullout (easy to do here), and enjoyed some relaxing, easy, and fun fishing.  I fished only a couple holes below strong rapids, and consistently got 6-9" rainbows (the Clackamas is stocked above the reservoir) for an hour, on the same hare’s ear, only this time I was seeing the takes with the indicator.  It was a great feeling to finally seem to have a clue.  Probably caught 6 fish in first 15 minutes once I keyed into a nice slot with an easy drift for the nymph.  They seemed spooked from then on, so I continued downriver and caught a few more. Finally, I broke off that productive hare’s ear in the middle of the stream, and decided it was time to go.  Hopped in the car, and was home in 1 hour. Not very big fish, but many of them, and very close to town.  Also, there’s always that chance for a summer steelie . Now I’m considering a 3 or 4wt for this kind of fishing, as they aren’t much fun to fight on a 6wt.  I’ve read that the fish in these streams are rarely as large as 12", and those are only found around the reservoir and above and below the power station.  I considered my 9" rainbow to be a lunker.  I could have left the reel at home. -yuf

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Question:

I’m going to try shad fishing this year in Mass.  Any recommendations for flies to tie?   Any other tips would also be appreciated.   _Rich_

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  I’m going to try shad fishing this year in Mass.  Any   recommendations   for flies to tie?   Any other tips would also be appreciated.     _Rich_ Last year at the Merrimack River I had good luck with small clousers.  I can’t honestly say I was trying to catch just shad, but that’s what took the fly.  The most important aspect of this type of fishing is getting the fly down to where the fish are, any fly reasonably close in imitation will work as long as it gets down to the fish.  In a strong current you’re going to need a weighted line such as a Teeny 350, let the current and the line do the work for you. Don

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Last year at the Merrimack River I had good luck with small clousers.  I can’t honestly say I was trying to catch just shad, but that’s what took the fly.  The most important aspect of this type of fishing is getting the fly down to where the fish are, any fly reasonably close in imitation will work as long as it gets down to the fish.  In a strong current you’re going to need a weighted line such as a Teeny 350, let the current and the line do the work for you. Don

I’ve been shad fishing the past two weekends on the Roanoke River in NC and have had the best success with 2-1/0 white/yellow clousers.  Everyone says to go small(6-4), but I did much better with the larger flies.  Granted, these are Hickory shad, but they did seem to prefer the larger fly.  I also had a lot of success with a gold or silver ’spoon’  fly(braided mylar coated with epoxy). The visibility in the Roanoke hasn’t been great, and they really seemed to like the flash.  -William Ivey   Raleigh, NC

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Question:

does anyone know of any web sites that deal with flyfishing in labrador?

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does anyone know of any web sites that deal with flyfishing in labrador?

a good site is: http://ad-here.com/cfho/NF2.HTM If you’re interested in fly fishing large brook trout contact:         Bill Murphy         owner/operator         Adventure North Ltd.         102 Brentwood Drive, Bedford, Nova Scotia B4A 3S1         ph/fax: 902-835-8033 See Crook’s Lake Lodge featured in this month’s Fly Rod and Reel and Gray’s Sporting Journal The Expeditions Issue. Lynn Martin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does anyone know of any web sites that deal with flyfishing in labrador? a good site is: http://ad-here.com/cfho/NF2.HTM If you’re interested in fly fishing large brook trout contact:         Bill Murphy         owner/operator         Adventure North Ltd.         102 Brentwood Drive, Bedford, Nova Scotia B4A 3S1         ph/fax: 902-835-8033 See Crook’s Lake Lodge featured in this month’s Fly Rod and Reel and Gray’s Sporting Journal The Expeditions Issue. Lynn Martin

and the rivers full of Big "Brookies"!        

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tanya try YAHOO ON YOUR BROWSER AND SEE WHAT THAT BRINGS TYPE LABRADOR FLY FISHING GOOD LUCK                    DICK PATREDIS —     In the immortal words of OLD RANCID CRABBTREE    Any time a man ain’t fishing he is frittering away                       HIS LIFE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does anyone know of any web sites that deal with flyfishing in labrador?

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does anyone know of any web sites that deal with flyfishing for labradors?

 I don’t know why you would want to fish for a labrador but I would suggest a tennis ball type of pattern (if the labs that you’re after are anything like mine). Maybee chum with some barbeque scraps. MT —             It’s not the bible that’s filled with contradictions,                  It’s our brains that are filled with them.                              J. Vernon McGee

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 I don’t know why you would want to fish for a labrador but I would suggest a tennis ball type of pattern (if the labs that you’re after are anything like mine). Maybee chum with some barbeque scraps.

HAHA!! tennis balls, footballs, snowballs, airballs, sticks, rocks, onions, roadkill…it just doesn’t matter!  Labs are the gamin’est fish in the sea, and they don’t care what you use.  They’re all over it, and that’s why they’re the best dogs ever invented. Right on, Mark. BTW, I grew up with a black lab, and the only thing I found that it wouldn’t eat was canned pineapple – but it loved the fresh stuff.  Smart dog. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MT —             It’s not the bible that’s filled with contradictions,                  It’s our brains that are filled with them.                              J. Vernon McGee

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Question:

Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good

Look for glass rods with the Abu or Fenwick name — probably no longer sold new, but the old ones must be somewhere…. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good starting point would appreciate a tip!

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Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good starting point would appreciate a tip!

For the same money, you might be able to get a better quality rod by going to a two piece rod.  Put it in a schedule 40 PVC tube and use it for a walking stick.  It helps me a lot crossing streams and going up/ down steep inclines.  The thin wall PVC won’t hold up as well if you really put your weight on it (like when you need it most).   Rob

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: For the same money, you might be able to get a better quality rod by : going to a two piece rod.  Put it in a schedule 40 PVC tube and use it : for a walking stick.  It helps me a lot crossing streams and going up/ : down steep inclines.  The thin wall PVC won’t hold up as well if you : really put your weight on it (like when you need it most).   Rob, I also use two-piece rods hiking and backpacking.  I carry them in a sturdy PVC tube and use the tube as a walking stick.  If I ever fell right on top of it. . . well I think I would rather have the rod break than me (but I am not too sure). Schedule 40 PVC?  Hmmm.  I guess I will know what to ask for next time I acquire a PVC rod tube.  Thanks for the terminology. Cheers, Burnaby, BC

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Check and see if you can find a st. Croix dealer in canada. I bought two 4 pc.    pack

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Hi, If you are into building your own rod the River’s Edge in Bozeman, MT has Sage second blank (4 peice pack rods) for about $130.00.  If you think you might be interested you can call them at 406-586-5373. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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Al, Thanks for the post.  I saw your message of Jan 4 regarding the River’s Edge and the sage seconds.  We live in Chicago and have a tough time finding a source for seconds, especially travel rods at this price! Bryan and company at rivers edge were quite helpful.  I just purchased two of the blanks and there in the mail now.

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St. Croix is available in Canada at a decent price.  Diawa makes a 4 – 5 wt. that fishs very well.  Pack rods at low prices can be hard to find.  Good luck. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check and see if you can find a st. Croix dealer in canada. I bought two 4 pc.    pack

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Check the Cabela’s 1996 Spring catalog.  They’re listing a 4pc. pack rod blank (9′/6wt I think) for less than $50.  They list it as an import, but who knows.

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I looking for an moderately priced pack rod, and have found a Cabela’s Fish Eagle 8′ 4wt. for #116.  Anybody out there have any opinions about the rod?

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I really like the St. Croix Imperial, 8′ for 4/5 in a 4 piece … rod holder included for around $125. Also it has a lifetime guarantee … I like the intermediate action so much that I am fishing it almost as my #1 rod. bob vorel

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Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

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: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

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Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

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I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

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David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

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I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

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In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

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Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

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I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

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It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

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writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

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David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

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Question:

I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help. breckwm

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I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help.

Be sure to check out some of the following locations: Idaho – St Joe River, Coeur d’Alene River Montana – Madison, Gallatin, Yellowstone River and Yellowstone Park Flies – Hoppers, Bead Head Nymphs, attractors, caddis Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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: Be sure to check out some of the following locations: : Idaho – St Joe River, Coeur d’Alene River Mr. Beatty is reminding you of the spots along the freeway.  You might want to keep looking at the map. : Flies – Hoppers, Bead Head Nymphs, attractors, caddis I agree. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Central Washington: try the Yakima River from above the Roza dam pool to Lake Easton. Water levels drop after Labor day as irrigation needs fall off. good floating in upper canyon, above Ellensburg and below Cle Elum. Cle Elum lodging-Timber Lodge (509) 674-5966;  good flyshop in E’burg on south Main (but I don’t remember name). Fishing is catch and release, barbless hooks.  I try to get in a day or three every Sept-Oct. Tight lines! John Dodge

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try the tributaruies of the skykomish along highway 2.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help. breckwm

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Question:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

We couldn’t agree more! Sincerely, Noranda Mining Company Canada "Coming Soon to a Wilderness Area Near You!"

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Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

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Pc idiocy? what pc idiocy? edwin

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Question:

: Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle : of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe : the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and : pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle : catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d : appreciate hearing. Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. William Buchman …I’m confused

Yes you may be. Sierra Tackle went out of business about twenty years ago but Ned continued doing business under Cutthroat Hook Company until he was too ill to operate it. Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

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Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing.  Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. Cliff Wyatt ran the Wilderness Shoppe in Santa Monics.  I think that it preceded Ned Grey’s.  Even so, I would be surprised if even Wyatt was first. William Buchman

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: Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle : of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe : the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and : pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle : catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d : appreciate hearing. Sean, I’m sorry to tell you that Ned passed away about six years ago after a long battle with emphysema. Ned was an inspiration over the years to many flyfishers and his inovative patterns and techniques were passed on Ken Lindsey  Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. William Buchman …I’m confused

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I live in La Crescenta, just up the hill from Montrose. I used to drive to Ned’s shop when I lived out in Canoga Park.  And then, after I moved to La Crescenta, Ned closed his shop (I don’t think I drove him to it!) I do not know if he opened another shop or not. Rick

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Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing. Thanks Sean Barry

Sean,  I’m sorry to tell you that Ned passed away about six years ago after a long battle with Emphezima(spell?). Ned was an inspiration over the years to many flyfishers and his inovative patterns and techniques were passed on with an enthusiasm for the sport that was infectious.  Ned got me started in saltwater fly rodding in 1972 and I still treasure one of his early Calico bass patterns that was tossed across the counter with the admonition " don’t worry what kind of tackle you have just throw that son of a bitch out there and see what eats it."  I did and they ate it and I thank Ned for introducing me to a whole new spectrum of our sport. Ned was truly a pioneer of the sport and I feel privaliged to have known him. Tight Lines, Ken  Lindsay FLy Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

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Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing. Thanks Sean Barry

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