Question:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

Ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto.

Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel. — Charlie…

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel.

For an economical, non-rotary vise, I started with the Griffin 2A.   A nice vise for not much money.   It’s worth mentioning in light of Charlie’s post that the clamp base for the Griffin and the pedestal base for the Renzetti are interchangeable between the two vises. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

I have the heavy-duty version of the Renzetti Traveler. I think it’s called the "Saltwater" model, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it gives me the flexibility to tie big steelhead flies, but it still works OK for small flies. I recommend the pedestal version. You can always fix it to your table with a small C-clamp.

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

FWIW (for the Western New England contingent), I just got back from BG Sporting Goods in Westfield, MA and all of their vises are 20% off, which makes their price on the Traveler with cam and pedestal base about $125.00. They also had some nice STH reels at 50% off. — TL, Tim

Response:

Joe F. writes: I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Joe F.

Ditto Dave

Response:

I would recommend the Orvis rotary.

Second that George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Another vote here for the Traveler Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range.

WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

Response:

So what vise guys.

Oh, vise guys, is it? Listen kiddo ve vas fly fishin ven your mama vas feedin you on prechewed gefilte fish!  HAH! Wolfgang i’ll give ya vise guys!    :(

Response:

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

and in what era was that?  The Pleistocene? Peter (who paid more for his in deflated Northern Pesos)

Response:

My folks gave me a Regal for Christmas about 15 years ago. Have never had a problem, still using it today. Mine is a little different than this newer model, (no swivel head) but the jaws are pretty much the same. Great vise! http://www.worleybuggerflyco.com/flytyingtools/Regal_Vises.htm Good luck, JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Response:

(I can be pretty abusive).  

Though, from what I’ve read here, you are mostly self-abusive. Kevin Wait, that doesn’t sound right…

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. Paul

Response:

I would choose flyfishing over drinking, doing drugs, cheating on your spouse, or collecting beanie babies . . . but that’s just my opinion. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

But still three times more than his highest-priced choice. Just slightly above your price range is the Thompson A Vise, at around $35- $40 at many fly shops. The advantage over all the vises Cabelas has on that page is a stellar reputation for being a very functional utilitarian vise that will last for years and years.  If anything on it breaks, its easily and cheaply replaceable, without buying a whole new vise. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

http://www.mossycreek.com/orvis_rotary.htm I would recommend the Orvis rotary.  I got the original of this, made by Danica while over in the UK.  Its not as pretty as a Renzetti, but its a vise that will be passed down and used by your great grand kids even after the most abusive use you can think of (I can be pretty abusive).  All this for only $80.  I’ve even gotten a couple of professional tiers to switch (Mike Martinek for one). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 …2 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Believe it or not, I just selected the whole deal in Xnews, right clicked and selected "Edit URL", hit OK, and it took me right to the page. Xnews rocks! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink.

Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Response:

 http://www.nor-vise.com/norviseinfo.html Best ever. Mr.G.

Response:

[posted and mailed] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg

Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9& i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2 F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc

That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Response:

I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example.

Please don’t mistake my post for a critique of Paul’s picture. His looks awesome and has a very high resolution. Plus he tied that fly himself for crying out loud. I’m just wondering when he’s going to fish with it There have been other threads of late about digital cameras and I think Paul’s image speaks highly of what a digital camera can do. In my post, I was simply commenting on how–in general–to get a solid-colored background. It was admittedly a bit of a non sequitur. –Steve

Response:

Steve, Thanks for the info…I was just pretty impressed by quality of the orig photo. I just bought my daughter a 35mm (by her request), but now am wondering if she would be better off just getting a digi. cam. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example. Please don’t mistake my post for a critique of Paul’s picture. His looks awesome and has a very high resolution. Plus he tied that fly himself for crying out loud. I’m just wondering when he’s going to fish with it There have been other threads of late about digital cameras and I think Paul’s image speaks highly of what a digital camera can do. In my post, I was simply commenting on how–in general–to get a solid-colored background. It was admittedly a bit of a non sequitur. –Steve

Response:

Gorgeous fly, Paul, and a great photo. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hi, It was the Olympus 2020z with a wide angle adapter lens. With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Paul

Paul, it is a GREAT shot.  The shaded background gives the fly a perfect richness of depth, and truly highlights the colors. — "Of what service would militia be to you, when most probably you will not have a single musket in the State; for as arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them?" -Patrick Henry,  5 June 1788

Response:

It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Other general pointers… To get a white background, prop a piece of paper behind the fly. To avoid glare, block the overhead light using a clipboard or something similar, turn off the flash and then overexpose the shot. Here are a couple of examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/mosquito.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/humpy.jpg Sometimes it’s nice to have a other backgrounds with little or no glare as well. Same technique applies. For a black background, I’ve found that an Unreal Tournament T-shirt works pretty well . You can vary the amount of glare by blocking more or less overhead light. Examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0722.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0698.jpg Standard disclaimer… I’m an amateur photographer at best (but I have tried lots and lots of close up shots, most of which look pretty crappy). I defer to RW and Wayno for "real" photos. –Steve

Response:

… http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg …

Ooooo, ahhhhhh. That reel sure goes nicely with a Hamilton Rod. What is that, a Peerless ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp.

Other general pointers… To get a white background, prop a piece of paper behind the fly. To avoid glare, block the overhead light using a clipboard or something similar, turn off the flash and then overexpose the shot. Here are a couple of examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/mosquito.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/humpy.jpg Sometimes it’s nice to have a other backgrounds with little or no glare as well. Same technique applies. For a black background, I’ve found that an Unreal Tournament T-shirt works pretty well . You can vary the amount of glare by blocking more or less overhead light. Examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0722.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0698.jpg Standard disclaimer… I’m an amateur photographer at best (but I have tried lots and lots of close up shots, most of which look pretty crappy). I defer to RW and Wayno for "real" photos. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for putting it on-line; my _great_ (sic) provider does provide me with the replies, but not with the binary . Great looking fly! Love the married slips. Looking at works of art like these, I remember the late Hans de Groot, a well known flytier from the Netherlands. He was tying a salmon fly at an exhibition. Some guy was watching him, and asked Hans how much he wanted for it, once he finished. ‘I don’t sell flies’ he murmured under his beard, and slowly and meticulously continued tying his fly. ‘I give you a hundred guilders for it’ said the man, palming his wallet. ‘I don’t sell flies’, was the undisturbed reply. This went on, a sweating man bidding up, Hans slowly finishing his fly. When he was finished he looked at a young boy, who head eyed every step of the process. ‘Do you like it?’ ‘Yes’ ‘It’s yours, take it.’ The now red with anger guy looked at Hans, who calmly said.. ‘I told you. I don’t sell flies..’ He is missed. Herman

And the modern American ending to the story: The boy then turned to the angry man and said, "It will be up on E-Bay in the morning."

Response:

1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg

Which camera? Mu

Response:

Hi, It was the Olympus 2020z with a wide angle adapter lens. With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Paul . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg Which camera? Mu

Response:

Very kind of you Paul, thanks.   The fly looks very nice, and the photo is good as well. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul

Response:

Thanks for putting it on-line; my _great_ (sic) provider does provide me with the replies, but not with the binary . Great looking fly! Love the married slips. Looking at works of art like these, I remember the late Hans de Groot, a well known flytier from the Netherlands. He was tying a salmon fly at an exhibition. Some guy was watching him, and asked Hans how much he wanted for it, once he finished. ‘I don’t sell flies’ he murmured under his beard, and slowly and meticulously continued tying his fly. ‘I give you a hundred guilders for it’ said the man, palming his wallet. ‘I don’t sell flies’, was the undisturbed reply. This went on, a sweating man bidding up, Hans slowly finishing his fly. When he was finished he looked at a young boy, who head eyed every step of the process. ‘Do you like it?’ ‘Yes’ ‘It’s yours, take it.’ The now red with anger guy looked at Hans, who calmly said.. ‘I told you. I don’t sell flies..’ He is missed. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to [snip]

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to obtain APBF, and I would certainly like to look at some of the things being posted there.

I don’t know how well it will work, but there’s a site… http://www.imira.com that will host photo albums. I just created a group for ROFF name: roff password: roffroff   (it wanted at least 6 characters) You can create various albums and subalbums there, but I haven’t tried it out yet.      - Ken

Response:

After 8<

Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view. again, very nice… you have talent. Walt

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After 8< Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view. again, very nice… you have talent. Walt

Response:

That’s no highlander, where’s the kilt! But more to the point – will you fish it? Seriously, there’s a huge amount of work in that fly and the makings of a serious addiction.  I’m always amazed at the patience and artistry in these things.  Far more than this feeble tier can manage. Hats off. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

I just posted nice things about your fly but I after hearing you brag about your 22′ flat screen I’m taking it all back.  <g Peter (still squinting at a bent tube) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

much better! walt

Response:

I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly.

And speaking of gear whores… –Steve

Response:

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to obtain APBF, and I would certainly like to look at some of the things being posted there. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

Response:

Purty fly!! Willi

Response:

Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to

[snip]

Response:

After threatening to do it for a few years I sat down and tied a classic salmon fly. I tied a green highlander and posted a picture of it on APBF. There are a bunch of things I need to work on and I did take a couple of shortcuts but it’s not bad for a first try. This was a test for tying one on some antique blind eye salmon hooks I have. The picture is about 400KB and quite revealing. With the naked eye I thought the body was smooth. The naysayers of digital cameras might want to look at the detail that the camera captured.

Great photo of a true work of art! Thanks Paul. — "Of what service would militia be to you, when most probably you will not have a single musket in the State; for as arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them?" -Patrick Henry,  5 June 1788

Response:

After 8< Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view.

I still have no way of viewing ABPF, but a 500 pixel width will cover less than 1/3 of my screen (it’s the resolution, not the size of the monitor that matters). Guess it doesn’t matter, since I can’t see it, but if I could I’d prefer bigger images and people can shrink them if they have less resolution, it’s impossible to make them bigger from smaller images.      - Ken

Response:

After threatening to do it for a few years I sat down and tied a classic salmon fly. I tied a green highlander and posted a picture of it on APBF. There are a bunch of things I need to work on and I did take a couple of shortcuts but it’s not bad for a first try. This was a test for tying one on some antique blind eye salmon hooks I have. The picture is about 400KB and quite revealing. With the naked eye I thought the body was smooth. The naysayers of digital cameras might want to look at the detail that the camera captured.

Response:

Question:

Ok, Steve, now that i’ve shown that photo to everyone in the four state area, i have a question.  How’d you make it look like i have an earring?  

You don’t? Look at the photo again and click on the "earring". The fish he was catching were not cooperating with the photographer (me) or the fish holder (RW).  

Bruce has a theory that the San Juan trout have been caught so many times that they’re wise to having their pictures taken. Sounds plausible. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I now have a picture of RW holding a fish underwater (the fish, not steve) that’s pretty damn big – it looks like a rainbow shark.  It was one of the fish that refused to be held for an above water photo, but since i’m an experienced crappy photographer i know to start shooting as soon as you can see the fish just in case.  steve, do me a favor and leave your mailing address on my home answering machine (505) 792-7774 and i’ll mail them out pronto.  i do have an above water shot of another fish also. of course i’ve also got about fifty shots of louie laplac happily fishing the kiddie hole in an attempt to beef up his stats  (just kidding louie) bruce h bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

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Bruiser writes: of course i’ve also got about fifty shots of louie laplac happily fishing the kiddie hole in an attempt to beef up his stats  (just kidding louie)

Oh, the pain!   You are a cruel, cruel man, Bruce.  Cruel.  I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn.  However, I think we could do fishdom a favor by paving the Kiddie Pool.  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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<snip I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn. Dave, My personal preference was always green cement with my lawn mower painted white and placed  in the middle.  :-) Ernie

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<snip I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn. Dave, My personal preference was always green cement with my lawn mower painted white and placed  in the middle.  :-) Ernie

A guy a few blocks from me simply filled his yard with rocks and put an old reel type push lawnmower in the yard with a sign that reads Rust In Peace. Seams quite elegant to me. Big Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Thanks for the great report Danl.  Next time we’ll fish together more, but you were lucky to get to fish so much with willi, he really is the troutmaster.  And you’re a pool hustler.  See you in yellowstone or somewhere else soon. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

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Snoop Doggy Bob was decked out in his usual flaming glory and we complimented him on his obvious grasp of panache. The pictures that RW posted just don

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For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  

When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t suppose it depends upon the scales? — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjul00.html

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

City boy<g. Why when I was in school… — Charlie…

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G.

Really. One time I filled an Evian bottle with tap water and put it back in the refrigerator. My wife and kids never noticed the difference, but man were they pissed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people?

Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  Poor people who will not take charity.  Basically I’m someone who’s decided not to give money to charitable organizations (through a third party).  (I’ve done *work* for charitable organizations.) But, I’d happily buy a meal or give a gift to a poor family if I could find people who are actually poor and would accept something without finding me condascending.  This has happened to me, but the more I think about it, not often enough.  How do you find a person truly in need, and how would you actually approach them? Regards, Jeff

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way.

You had schools???  We used to sleep in a shoe box, and had to get up a half hour before we went to bed.  For breakfast we got a lump of cold poison. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

And you know what that spells backward….  :-) Regards, Jeff

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Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  

Giving money to panhandlers is the equivalent of feeding the bears at Yellowstone Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows?

Maybe so.  But I would still gladly buy a poor person a meal but not give money to some guy who profits from the transaction.  And I would rather buy someone a meal than give them the money.  It just pisses me off when I get scammed.  Just 2 weeks ago a guy in the parking lot of a supermarket told me his car broke down and he had to get his wife and daughter back home on the bus that night, so could he have enough money to pay for the 3 tickets.  As I was pondering this, it finally dawned on me that this was the same guy I gave money to almost exactly a year before, with the exact same shpiel (shp?) So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Regards, Jeff

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<good story snipped Nice story Mike.  Hopefully you will post this one to your website. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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"Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Surprisingly enough Ernie, you can live for a week or even considerably longer, on more or less nothing. Problems arise when this continues for long periods, and one is forced to eat stuff that one would not normally touch. I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days.  "Scraps" are the remains of fish, chips, batter etc soaked in lard, which are scraped out of the large frying pans used in fish and chip shops when they are cleaned. A bucket full cost a couple of pennies, and there was often a queue for this stuff.  I only ever ate the stuff a couple of times, but I can taste it still, and even the smell makes me feel ill.  I can not stomach even entering a fish and chip shop to this day, and I remember my wife being very surprised when we visited London once and she wanted to try fish and chips, and I simply could not stay in the queue which had  formed at the counter, as I was in severe danger of throwing up.  This sort of thing plays hell with peoples health as well.  It may not have appeared so in my story, but I was indeed one of the lucky ones, I had the means and the drive to go and catch fish, "find" "wayward" sheep, and even go and dig up "wild" potatoes or vegetables, or collect fruit and stuff in summer,  should this prove necessary. I also collected seacoal and wood, from the beaches, so we always had something to burn in winter, which was much more than many others had, and we never actually got anywhere even close to starving or freezing.  Although some I knew got close to it. Many of the people I knew at that time were sunk so deeply in apathy as a result of their poverty, that they could not help themselves, and even under those conditions, some were far too proud to accept "charity".  What little money they received from various sources, usually social security or similar, was often wasted in vain attempts at momentary escape from their respective plights, or even astoundingly enough,  pathetic attempts at "keeping up the show". Drunkenness was common, and many a wife and child beating took place, when some men lucky enough to have them, came home from their jobs late on a Friday night, after having drunk most of their relatively meagre pay in the local pubs. They were often also poorly educated, reviled by other sections of the community, and generally treated like dirt. Poverty is a deadly disease, it saps ones energy, removes any perspective of improvement for many, releases large amounts of criminal energy, mostly driven by hopelessness, and the feeling that things can get no worse anyway, whatever one does, often induces a positive fear of authority, and inevitably results in an early grave, as it did for both my father and my mother, and many many others I knew at that time. It may also reveal facets of human nature that are not normally obvious, not all of which are negative. A little kindness may cost a man of means virtually nothing, but may go a very long way to helping somebody far less fortunate. The world would be a far better place if some were bound to wonder as you did, how one may live on oranges for a week, and then consider those who did not even have the oranges, and in many places still do not. One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

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Mike,    I can understand why you would dislike fish and chips to this day. I had some at Ramsdens (sp?) in Northern England which were excellent. Ernie "Mike Connor" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days <snip TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC – .

And, indeed, Mike, you honor us all by doing so.  You certainly do not need my encouragement to continue your course, but you have it, nonetheless. Bravo! Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC

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Perhaps we are just perverse?

At the risk of having Ernie thump me on the head again I will repeat something I posted some time ago on ROFF.   It has been my experience that to most in America being hungry means trying to remember the last time you missed a meal.  In fact, being hungry means trying to remember the last time you HAD a good meal. Who’s perverse?

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An excellent analysis.  One other point occurred to me. Referring to a particular group of society as "the poor", is one of the reasons why people find it easy to avoid any identification with those so afflicted, it is easy to forget that we are talking about people here,  and the word itself is a stigma. As for many politicians, well I think it probably better to refrain from comment, waste of time anyway. Hardly seems worth the trouble criticising people who mainly appear to tell lies, and manipulate others for a living. If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows? I have not been hungry for a very long time either, but curiously enough, just like you, I remember exactly what it was like. In fact I remember it far more clearly than any of the times I have been ripped off, (also uncountable I fear),  or sat at sumptuous meals in equally sumptuous surroundings. Perhaps we are just perverse? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm,

        (snip)         simply amazing.  very, very few of us have ever been to that place. wayno

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Well, to paraphrase: Give a boy a fish and he feeds himself, teach him to fish, and he feeds a village… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Secondly, if you want to know how much a fish is worth, wait until you and your family are hungry, and carry a sackfull on your back to feed them. This will doubtless colour any subsequent ideas you might have on the matter considerably. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

So would a speller checker on this newsreader!!! Peter

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.

I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different. Regards, Jeff

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help. I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different.

Yes, there are cheats and slackers and no, it’s not part of the problem.  There are cheats and slackers in congress, in corporate offices, in academia, in churches, and in every other segment of society.  No one wants to dismantle any of these and no one thinks seriously about punishing them all for the sins of the few.  I repeat, it’s not part of the problem….it’s a different problem.  You are right about one thing; the people with the greatest means to help the poor generally do not live in close proximity.  Even when they do though, it is generally not the people with the greatest means who do the most to help.  Must be afraid of getting ripped off……might make them late for dinner. For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  I lost over forty pounds in that time and spent most of my time doing virtually nothing for lack of energy or incentive.  This is not a lament.  Unlike many millions of people around the world (and even here in the richest country in the history of the world) I always had options.  Eventually, I availed myself of an opportunity to get plugged back into the mainstream.  I have never been truly hungry since 1975, but I remember.  I’ve been ripped off lots of times since then….given money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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[reality snipped] When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.  Our current premier once remarked that single welfare mothers spend their money on beer.  One of his first acts was to substantially reduce both welfare payouts and eligibilty, putting many people onto the street.  He’s now out to privatise co-op housing – putting more on the street.  I can’t help thinking that a week of subsiting on a bucket of scraps would help his perspective immensely. Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm, pulling the collar up around my neck once more, I snuggled into the corner of the life-belt storage cupboard, and tried to think warm.  Walking the six miles or so along the clifftops and climbing down to the pier had kept me warm enough, and I had not really noticed how cold it was, but I was noticing now alright! Climbing up the icy steel pier legs in the pre-dawn dark with my gear had even caused me to start sweating, and I was paying for that now too. Cold sweat is very cold indeed.  Frosty clouds formed every time I exhaled, and the freezing spray from the stormy sea had soaked me fairly well through from the other side of my clothing as well. Nobody else was on the pier, quite unusual, as the tides were quite propitious, and the recent storms would almost certainly have brought some cod or whiting, and perhaps a few other fish closer in.  Leaving my temporary shelter, I moved out into the full force of the wind and spray, and surveyed the scene, dark clouds, swirling angry seas, and a long procession of heavy breakers crashing against the pier, causing it to  sway ominously under my feet.  Occasional banks of freezing fog rolled rapidly landwards, driven by a capricious but powerful wind, with clear patches now and again, allowing one odd glimpses of the land, and the cliff head, often covering the pier slipway, obliterating it, and making it seem as if one was standing on a tower with no land connection. Although dawn had broken, the weather was such that this was by no means apparent, it was still fairly dark, and it took me half an age to get my "storm-lantern",which consisted of a candle in a milk bottle with holes drilled around the bottom,  going, so that I had enough light to assemble my gear. This piece of equipment also did sterling service as a hand warmer. High tide was not for another two hours, but with freezing fingers occasionally warmed on the milk bottle, I painfully started to assemble my gear anyway.  Seven feet of solid fibreglass rod, an ancient wooden "Scarborough" centrepin reel with a hundred yards of forty pound line, an eight ounce lead, and a trace on which was mounted a set of three of my latest "secret weapons". Most of the blokes I met on the pier and elsewhere invariably laughed when seeing this for the first time, some kindly souls even offering me bait and other stuff, which however I always declined.  After a while, quite a few got to know me, as I literally haunted some venues when the fish were there, and was treated like a "regular", although even at that tender age I was considered eccentric, I was twelve at the time.  Not everybody knew my name, and many referred to me as "that fly-tying lad", not unkindly, but in that certain way that suggested I had at least a couple of screws loose.  Nobody actually tapped their foreheads, at least not in my presence, but I often got the feeling that they were about to. Fly-fishing at that time was something which the "gentry" did, and they did not do it in Winter in the North Sea. Standard procedure for serious sea anglers at the time was a multiplying reel, thirty to forty pound line, a minimum four ounce lead, and large baits, usually  consisting of lugworm, ragworm, peeler crab, herring strips, mussels, or various combinations of these. One or two hook rigs were used, these were cast out, the rod was put in a stand, or leaned against the pier railings etc, and a bite was awaited. Some clipped small bells on their rod tips and went to sleep while awaiting such a serendipitous event, others wandered around talking to their mates, smoking and drinking tea, or other "fortifying" beverages, often requiring them to make mad dashes down the length of the pier when their bells rung, and their rods threatened to go over the side. More well to do anglers, had "radium" lights, which were filled with luminescent radioactive gas, cost a veritable fortune, and were screwed or clipped to the rod tip. Occasionally some unfortunate would bugger up a cast, or forget to remove his clip light from his rod before casting, and the light sailed off into the distance, often accompanied by a cracking sound as the terminal tackle followed it on its way to the watery depths, which in turn was accompanied by a steady stream of inventive and colourful profanity, often to the amusement and elucidation of all present, especially some of the younger lads, who presumably laboured for some considerable time under the misapprehension that "fucking" and similar equally unprintable epithets had something to do with radioactive tip-lights. Someone chucking a bell away was not nearly as enlightening for bystanders, and elicited rather less interest. Some inevitably became curious about my gear, especially if I had caught a bagfull on my "hairy fancies" as one gentleman once described my flies. My intention at that time when fishing, was invariably to catch a bagfull, and that in the cheapest and most efficient way possible. My family, and not a small number of my neighbours, depended on it for a decent dinner.  Having had some success with flies in freshwater, I had turned my attentions to the North Sea, as the fish were usually bigger, and there were a lot more of them. Bait was difficult to acquire, and was far too expensive to buy, so I had resolved to try "fly-fishing" there as well. This particular set of "hairy fancies" were made up of 3/0 Mustad stainless steel "beak" hooks, wrapped with silver tinsel, and sporting "wings" of various coloured bucktail.  My technique was quite simple, albeit somewhat strenuous. With a  two or three step "run-up", a whirl very similar to that performed by a hammer thrower,  and a mighty twisting overhead heave, usually instilling considerable fear and amazement in the hearts and minds of any innocent bystanders, especially those who used "normal" gear, even in those who had seen it before, putting an awe inspiring bend into the old solid glass rod, the heavy wooden centrepin was forced into revolving at a speed for which it was never designed, producing thereby the most amazing noises, faintly reminiscent of a defective differential gear, or a rusty dungeon door being swung at high speed. This despite regular applications of fat to the "bearing", the while being braked by the thumb of my right hand to prevent the otherwise inevitable and horrendous "birds nest",  and the "flies" hurtled out, carried by the eight ounce lead, to land with an almighty splash, which could be heard even in the worst of storms and gales, as it was rarely more than about forty yards away when it struck the water. Which circumstance however had the pleasant side-effect of always assuring me plenty of room, even when the pier was crowded. My "flies" were then retrieved at various speeds and in various modes, until I caught a fish.  This happy event occurred surprisingly often, much to the chagrin of those who had previously laughed, and who notwithstanding their veritable armouries of wonderful and often expensive equipment had still not caught anything. Fortunately nobody was frightened half to death on this occasion, as there was nobody there. Having assembled my gear, I essayed my first cast of the day. This cast was always of the utmost importance, and had to be executed with considerable care, in fact the first few casts had to be done in such a way, as otherwise a jam up was quite likely, and the loss of expensive terminal gear inevitable. A careful and relatively modest thirty yard cast was the order of the day. Having accomplished this, I took up the slack, and placing the line over my right index finger, the butt of my rod tucked under my elbow, and my left hand supporting it by holding the rim of the reel, I started a jigging retrieve. Thump! and thump! again, heaving back on the rod I struck, and proceeded to haul in a couple of lively fish, beautiful whiting well over a pound each. These were hauled straight up the thirty foot drop by winding in, despatched, unhooked, and the next cast was prepared. In all the now well over forty years I have been fishing, I have never had a session like I had that day, and I will never do so again, as nowadays I would cease to fish after getting a few good ones.  The fish were there, a large shoal of hungry whiting and they were biting like crazy, I was hauling up two or three fish every cast, some really nice sized ones as well, but all were at least sizeable. Even in those days I was an optimist, and I had brought two large sacks with me and a polythene bag, which was actually designed to be used as a makeshift raincoat should the weather be really nasty.  I filled both sacks and the bag, and continued to fish like a lunatic, the pile of fish on the pier behind me continued to grow apace, but still I carried on, as if in a trance. Several people had now come on to the pier which had opened in the meantime, and stood watching, some started fishing, but I was oblivious to everything, and continued almost mechanically hauling up fish after fish. . Some time after mid-day I came to my senses, and viewed the carnage all around me.  I reeled in my gear and started gutting and filleting fish, several people asked if they might have a fish, and I told them to help themselves.  For several hours I filleted fish like a madman, emptying the sacks and the bag again on to the boards, and filleting those too,and even after filleting everything, and throwing all the guts and even the heads away as well, something I would not usually have done, as they made excellent soup, I still had two large sacks full of solid fish fillets, which I could only just lift. It took me almost seven hours to get home, and was well after dark  long before I got there. Carrying one sack a few hundred yards along the beach, dumping it, … read more »

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him. Dave L. An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife. Personally, in situations such as those, I distance myself from the individual in question, sashay up to the bar, delicately look at my watch while tsk tsking…….and say to the first person that asks, "Well, you can buy me a drink, but only one!"….john

ROFL.  The good counselor for the great North State will have something to say, I am sure.  Especially since it happened in his great NS.  (still laughing) Dave      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  

I don’t know that I’d go so far. It is telling the robber about to walk in the door who he should shoot first, though. Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife.

It was 21 feet, when Sgt. Tueller first demonstrated it. According to my arrest-control instructors, it might have become even more since then. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

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Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him. Dave L.

An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife. Personally, in situations such as those, I distance myself from the individual in question, sashay up to the bar, delicately look at my watch while tsk tsking…….and say to the first person that asks, "Well, you can buy me a drink, but only one!"….john

Response:

It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington. Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

______-  They had tube steaks? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington.

You are baaaad.  But typical USMC – never thinking about normal heterosexual sex.  Actually, IJ’s restaurant was pretty good.  Good martinis and fairly good food.  Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him.   Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

[entreaties snipped] This year we will insure that Indian Joe does not win all of them like he has in the past. This I got to see. Nobody has yet demonstrated an immunity to IJ’s croc’ tears ;^) The caving of the RaffleMeister is inevitable. /daytripper (It’s not "if" – it’s "when" ;^)

No, I have found new resolve.  IJ will be lucky if he wins *any* flies. It’s his turn for an obscene hat or tie.  It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington.  He can cry all he wants; I will not give in this year.  New resolve.  Yes sir. Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Question:

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

This is an interesting question – may have missed it, but don’t recall that it’s been posed before.  No scientific or experience basis to make this statement, but I would say that if the line is stored out of the sun and away from excessive heat or cold, it ought to be in pretty good shape even after a number of years in storage. Mark Faulkner

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?

I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. As an off-topic but perhaps relevant aside:  I  had the good fortune to do some fishing and hunting with Ed Zern back in the 1960s.  In his other life he was Creative Director of Geyer, Morey, Madden and Ballard, a big-time New York ad agency. I asked him about those strange greenish plastic collars on his two Labs.  He said "Oh, those are some experimental flea collars one of our clients gave me to try out.  They’ve been keeping fleas off my Labs for at least two years.  I’m sure they have someone working on that problem." Sure enough.  When flea collars appeared on the market a bit later, they were good for a couple of months. Might the same be true for fly lines? vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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UV light and heat are the killers if I understand things correctly.  The lines also loose their slick finish over time because there is friction from the guides.  My guess is that the lines should be fine as long as they haven’t been sitting next to a heater or left in the sun for a long time. << Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

  <<  I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. I guess I am brutal on my fly lines.  I can get a sinking line to last for a lot of years but I kill my dry lines within about two years or less.  That is based on fishing 60+ days per year but I still tear through them fast. Mike

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I have a fair collection of lines (more than I ever have mounted on reels). My solution has been to always put them away clean – coiled and tied with pipe cleaners – and in ziplock bags with all the air sucked out.  Figure that this will minimize effects of atmospheric polutants such as ozone. Keep them in dark color plastic tub (no light), and in a cool place.  Seems to have worked although I don’t have a control on this experement.  I keep even new lines in ziplock bags – cheap and figure it can’t hurt. air, since the boxes they come in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

Response:

Hi Vince, I have seen them 20 years old and still OK. Probably not used much? I have also seen some ‘Commando Anglers’ wear out a line in a season. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com <snip I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

Response:

Keep them clean and conditioned, and even the $10 specials from walmart will last a long time. eventually they will phyisically wear out, but that takes a lot of fishing. by then, you’ll feel like you’ve *earned* a new line. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Question:

Also try http://www.floridaflyfishing.com Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any local info on fishing with Fly in Florida ? Out of towner (Actually out of country – London England) is trying to plan some Saltwater Fly fishing from Skiffs in Florida – any info or help appreciated. I need to identify region, accomodation & a guide with a boat .. Everything in fact !

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This is a good start. I’ve fished with this guide several times on West Coast of Florida. He knows his stuff. rgill http://www.gianttarpon.com/fishingguide.htm Any local info on fishing with Fly in Florida ? Out of towner (Actually out of country – London England) is trying to plan some Saltwater Fly fishing from Skiffs in Florida – any info or help appreciated. I need to identify region, accomodation & a guide with a boat .. Everything in fact !

– How very simple life would be if only there were two of me A restless me to drift and roam a quiet me to stay at home.                    from "The Double Life" by Don Blanding

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I am not a fly-fisherman, but I do have a site that includes a list of over 100 South Florida guides on the internet, including many who specialize in flyfishing trips. The guides list is at http://inshore.com/f-guides.html. On a more personal note; I have fished with Capt. Chris Asaro several times and while he allows me to use spinning tackle, he really does prefer fly. He has his own site at http://www.sightfish.net/ . Jim Sawyer www.inshore.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any local info on fishing with Fly in Florida ? Out of towner (Actually out of country – London England) is trying to plan some Saltwater Fly fishing from Skiffs in Florida – any info or help appreciated. I need to identify region, accomodation & a guide with a boat .. Everything in fact !

Response:

Any local info on fishing with Fly in Florida ? Out of towner (Actually out of country – London England) is trying to plan some Saltwater Fly fishing from Skiffs in Florida – any info or help appreciated. I need to identify region, accomodation & a guide with a boat .. Everything in fact !

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Question:

   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

You didn’t mention a preference of venue or species to target, but have you tried Rockland Lake? It has a variety of species to target including Largemouth and Smallmouth bass, crappie, perch and an overabundance of bluegill. There may even be a pickerel or two around. If you wade, be very careful. I got stuck in mud up to my chest obver there near some lilly pads. Fortunately, another angler was able to pull me out. As for rivers/streams, you might try the Hudson for stripers and bluefish. You’ll need saltwater flyfishing gear for this venture though. I hear the Ramapo is making a comeback if trout are your target, but I don’t have any personal esperience there. You may want to call some local flyshops and get their opinion. One to try is the Matterhorn Country Sport Shop in Spring Valley, NY. Their phone number is 914.354.5986. Good Luck,     Jose

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   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

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Question:

For those on  a limited budget, one approach is to buy a top grizzly neck and then buy some waterproof artist pens and color individual hackles as needed. Keeps down your early investment costs. Hope this helps. Dick Hubbard

Response:

Being new to tying,I need some good advise as to which colors and types of hackle to invest in for dries, nymphs, and wets.

Hi, The four most popular colors in our area (CA) are as follows: 1. Brown 2. Grizzly 3. Dun 4. Creme Much has been said in favor of the beautiful genetic saddle hackles we have available today. I must agree they are wonderful to tie with. They do have one disadvantage though – there is a limited range of sizes present on any one saddle. For versatility, a good quality cape still has the edge.  I hope this helps.   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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(Richard Hubbard) writes: For those on  a limited budget, one approach is to buy a top grizzly neck and then buy some waterproof artist pens and color individual hackles as needed.

Been there, done that, Pantone markers work real well.  Lay them on a piece of paper towel to help with absorbancy and protect your table.                                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Great idea Dan! I’ve done this to my hopper and caddis patterns to get some contrast.   Never thought about "pantoning" hackles" especially when you’re on the road.  It’s alot easier to carry some markers than our valuable hackles. Thanks! +Mike V.

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Question:

I’m doing an informal survey on anglers favourite magazines and authors, (or TV hosts, etc..). Email me with yours! Thanks. Paradigm Management Group

Response:

American Angler is my favorite.  I gave up on the others, since they seemed to have become more travelogue, than anything else.  I don’t have a favorite TV show, but if I had to make a choice, I’d say "Fishing the West."

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In my opinion they all seem to rehash much of the same old stuff and of course they survive on advertising.  It just that sometimes they seem to be almost in an alliance with their advertisers to the point that it seems that thats what its all about.  Their is one new magazine out of Livingston MT, "The Angler Journal" that seems to be a little less commercial.  They at least have stated the quality is their goal.

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Do you get _Fly Rod & Reel_?  See, the reason I ask is that in the current issue one feature article is far from the same old thing…Flyfishing for largemouths in New York’s central park.  I doubt highly that this was an ad gig.         If you think that all the magazines rehash the same old stuff, try to think of something that’s truely original in this sport that warrants a feature article.  I for one will not sit still through six pages on the advent of a fly hackled about the hook bend, yet this seems to be the most original thing to come down the pike.  What’s left then are the destination pieces, but it’s been shown that exotic trips are a turn-off to readers.  So what’s left to hold the readers’ interest?  This recent article is an intelligent step forward.  If you have a good idea for a story, send it to the editors or better yet, write it.  They’re always looking for good stuff. Jamus

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