Question:

there’s a chance some smaller schoolie stripers will still be in the river. Shad will most likely be gone, but the smallmouth action should be fantastic. Oh yeah, when Rick and I got to the dock on Sunday afternoon " Dock Lady " ( you have to meet her in person, words can’t really adequetly describe her ) … Is she the one who is in the last Sage catalog ?

Haven’t seen the latest Sage catalog but I can guarantee that’s not her.

Response:

Fishing out of Fletchers Sunday and Monday: lots of BIG hickory shad, caught on the outgoing tide-using Teeny 250 or 300 lines, 6′ hunk of 12lb test Maxima for a leader ( God bless Maxima but I hate those fucking archaic spools theyl put the stuff on ) casting slightly upstream and usually getting a hit on the start of the swing. Flies on the small side-size 6 to 8 clousers with short tails-white with gold flash and chartruese with gold flash . I was getting alot of misses till I chopped off the tails to within about 3/8" of the hook bend , after that it was Heaven.Last cast of the day Monday I hooked an American shad, about 3 or 4 times the size and heft of the hickories. Last couple years the Americans were running about as big as that species can get, up to 30"s. This one took me into my backing about 50-75′. It took a long damn time to wind all that line in after it threw the hook that’s for sure. The Americans should be starting to come on strong now, the water’s warming up and clearing. They like the stretch of water just up from Fletchers dock area, on a rising tide and then right up till slack tide. They come there to spawn. Most of the hickory action’s been on the falling tides. The female stripers are running up to 40lbs. and the cut herring/bottom fishing guys have been hauling in a bunch. I keep trying for them but all I do is lose expensive flies in the rocks. Would it be that terrible to soak a fly or two in a bucket of herring chum and then run my leader through a slip sinker and just sorta drop it over the side of the boat while I eat lunch or something ? I’ll have to sleep on that. Anyway the male stripers are expected by the end of the week and they’ll be possible to catch using ethical methods The river should be low enough for safe wading by the end of the week too if the levels keep dropping at a steady clip. Oh yeah, when my Rick and I got to the dock on Sunday afternoon " Dock Lady " ( you have to meet her in person, words can’t really adequetly describe her ) told us everyone coming off the river was pissed at us because we two flyrodders were taking shad right and left all day and they, the spinning guys were only hitting them off and on and "they said you two bastards must be doing something illegal ". Even allowing for "Dock Ladys" habit of slight exageration it still was good to hear. It’s usually the other way around. cheers, Bob nursing a painfully pleasant case of "shad elbow"

Response:

Hello East Coasters, We are catching Stripers in the Sacramento, Feather and American Rivers now too as our big spring spawning run has started (April/May/June). This is south(downstream) and north(upstream) of Sacramento. The main runs will go all the way upstream (north) to Colusa and above on the Sacramento River. We fish them wading and from boats. Some of our friends caught some Stripers on flies yesterday and today. The American Shad are just behind the Stripers and will be thick in a few weeks. PS: Thanks for bringing those Stripers and Shad over here to the west coast in 1877. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, California, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fishing out of Fletchers Sunday and Monday: lots of BIG hickory shad, caught on the outgoing tide-using Teeny 250 or 300 lines, 6′ hunk of 12lb test Maxima for a leader ( God bless Maxima but I hate those fucking archaic spools theyl put the stuff on ) casting slightly upstream and usually getting a hit on the start of the swing. Flies on the small side-size 6 to 8 clousers with short tails-white with gold flash and chartruese with gold flash . I was getting alot of misses till I chopped off the tails to within about 3/8" of the hook bend , after that it was Heaven.Last cast of the day Monday I hooked an American shad, about 3 or 4 times the size and heft of the hickories. Last couple years the Americans were running about as big as that species can get, up to 30"s. This one took me into my backing about 50-75′. It took a long damn time to wind all that line in after it threw the hook that’s for sure. The Americans should be starting to come on strong now, the water’s warming up and clearing. They like the stretch of water just up from Fletchers dock area, on a rising tide and then right up till slack tide. They come there to spawn. Most of the hickory action’s been on the falling tides. The female stripers are running up to 40lbs. and the cut herring/bottom fishing guys have been hauling in a bunch. I keep trying for them but all I do is lose expensive flies in the rocks. Would it be that terrible to soak a fly or two in a bucket of herring chum and then run my leader through a slip sinker and just sorta drop it over the side of the boat while I eat lunch or something ? I’ll have to sleep on that. Anyway the male stripers are expected by the end of the week and they’ll be possible to catch using ethical methods The river should be low enough for safe wading by the end of the week too if the levels keep dropping at a steady clip. Oh yeah, when my Rick and I got to the dock on Sunday afternoon " Dock Lady " ( you have to meet her in person, words can’t really adequetly describe her ) told us everyone coming off the river was pissed at us because we two flyrodders were taking shad right and left all day and they, the spinning guys were only hitting them off and on and "they said you two bastards must be doing something illegal ". Even allowing for "Dock Ladys" habit of slight exageration it still was good to hear. It’s usually the other way around. cheers, Bob nursing a painfully pleasant case of "shad elbow"

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Question:

Thanks for the report.  I’ll have a few days in September to make it to Central Oregon and I’m looking forward to that.  Speaking of theft, I’m still looking for my goretex wading jacket in the green waterbag from May. I think I’ll put a tag on my stuff with my email.  Honest flyfisherman will know what to do, and the rest can go to ….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers held their annual outing at East Lake (SE of Burns) this weekend. Fly fishing was good for rainbows and browns to the mid teens size wise. Morning and evening seemed to be the best, and there were many types of insects hatching. Despite being there 3 days, I invested all of 1 hour wading the NE corner, casting dries, and landing 2 nice rainbows. Otherwise I went x-country hiking and lounged around taking pictures. The partial bummer this year was the crowds. Evidently Davis Lake, Wickiup and many other traditional summer time lakes in the Cascades are showing severe signs of drought, so speculation is that everyone is rushing to the spring fed East Lake and Paulina Lake, where my guess is the water level is down all of  6" (six inches). The East Lake campgrounds were the fullest I have seen them in 5 years, and the NE beaches in the evening had dozens of motor boats and float tubes beached on them. Which brings me to a warning. I was surfing another forum, and saw a very recent posting from someone who had a raft stolen at one of the Century Lakes Drive (e.g. Lava Lake, Craine Prairie, Davis Lake, a zillion other lakes) campgrounds. When the police officer arrived to take a report, this individual learned that there has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at many of the mostly fly-fishing only lakes that we have been leaving our tubes on the beach rather than haul them back to camp. Thomas Gilg

Response:

has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at

My beloved 78 yr old father had his 9.9 Evinrude stolen off the back of his drift boat while at Cresant Lake last weekend. They cut the lock and hauled it off. They left the gas tank which was on the front porch of the cabin less than 20′ away… I’ll leave the assessment of the relative intelligence of said scumbags to your own imagination. Cos

Response:

The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers held their annual outing at East Lake (SE of Burns) this weekend. Fly fishing was good for rainbows and browns to the mid teens size wise. Morning and evening seemed to be the best, and there were many types of insects hatching. Despite being there 3 days, I invested all of 1 hour wading the NE corner, casting dries, and landing 2 nice rainbows. Otherwise I went x-country hiking and lounged around taking pictures. The partial bummer this year was the crowds. Evidently Davis Lake, Wickiup and many other traditional summer time lakes in the Cascades are showing severe signs of drought, so speculation is that everyone is rushing to the spring fed East Lake and Paulina Lake, where my guess is the water level is down all of  6" (six inches). The East Lake campgrounds were the fullest I have seen them in 5 years, and the NE beaches in the evening had dozens of motor boats and float tubes beached on them. Which brings me to a warning. I was surfing another forum, and saw a very recent posting from someone who had a raft stolen at one of the Century Lakes Drive (e.g. Lava Lake, Craine Prairie, Davis Lake, a zillion other lakes) campgrounds. When the police officer arrived to take a report, this individual learned that there has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at many of the mostly fly-fishing only lakes that we have been leaving our tubes on the beach rather than haul them back to camp. Thomas Gilg

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Question:

Thanks for the reply. I feel like a regular already. I have been lurking for a couple of years. I’m fairly new to flyfishing and was having trouble getting my post to go through. I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

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I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

    for my part, i hope you reach both goals.  welcome to the nuthouse. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Whoooweee and likewise yeeehaaw!  That reply posted in seconds.  We may have a winner here. His wife in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.

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Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.  We’ve been having terrible troubles trying to post replies.  It appears Southwestern Bell/Pacific Bell Internet updated their hardware and software and generally rearranged the furniture without telling anyone.  Everybody’s been having trouble.  On advice from another user, we changed news servers to news.flash.net and hoping that posts will go through.  This lurking business is the pits.  Was about to use voodoo or something, sprinkle salt on the phone lines, call in an exorcist…. Please let us know how this goes. Bob & his wife in El Paso

Response:

A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo) — Charlie…

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A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo)

And I thank you from the bottom of my dweller –Steve

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listen, newbie: you call me sorry one more time and you’re *gonna* be!         wayno, the scourge of chambana   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Response:

Question:

A while back there was a posting that had this open or active portal concept. It was set up at a college or something and dealt with fly fishing. Does anybody still have the link for it? Thanks in advance, — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

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Thank you if you bothered to answer me. I finally found it. Here is the link if anyone is interested. http://www.active-portal.com/cgi-bin/genpage?cat=1031242&page=1&verbo… — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A while back there was a posting that had this open or active portal concept. It was set up at a college or something and dealt with fly fishing. Does anybody still have the link for it? Thanks in advance, — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

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Question:

I’m considering an expat job in Frankfurt Germany. A quality of life question: Is there good fishing around there – fly fishing preferably, any fishing in a pinch? Thanks for the help – FlyFisherRay

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I’m considering an expat job in Frankfurt Germany. A quality of life question: Is there good fishing around there – fly fishing preferably, any fishing in a pinch? Thanks for the help – FlyFisherRay

Hi Ray, I lived in Frankfurt for some time and never found any decent fishing.  If you are prepared to, and can afford to travel, you can reach some good fishing.  It is quite difficult to obtain a fishing licence here, you have to pass an exam.  If you need further specific info e-mail me and I will try to be of assistance.  I now live in a small village not far from Hamburg, but I should have no trouble providing you with the relative info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Question:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht.

by me at lunch.  er, sorry, you might make it for dinner.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

There was once a ferry, during the dry season, from Satun town to Langkawi. No need to go to Penang first. Only way to know if the ferry will operate this December is to simply go to Satun town and ask about it. There are many local travelers, so my guess is yes, it will operate. For a ride from Hat Yai to Satun town, ask any "tuk tuk" driver in Had Yai. He will know not only about the public buses, but also about the small and private mini-vans which ferry local Thai office workers between Had Yai and Satun town during the rush hours each day. Foreigners are welcome on this mini-vans. Note that this is an "international" ferry crossing. Passports will be checked at a small island about halfway between Satun and Langkawi, and the small ship will be inspected. The islands in the area are fantastic. Small boats to the islands on the Thai side of the border leave mostly from a small fishing village called Pak Bara. — George Moore http://www.slip.net/~georgem – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht. From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

Yea, What a HOOT!! RickM

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PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. Insider info, (PE)T(A)-Bone?

Ya know, Jim?  You’re obsession with Tim is starting to become kind of embarrassing to watch.  You might consider taking a break from the newsgroup and coming back when you’ve found your sense of humor. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

SOUNDS LIKE "REN & STIMPY" TO ME. OR PERHAPS "ITCHY AND SCRATCHY". YOU GUY’S OUGHTA LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE. I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE YOU COULD GO FISHING OR SOMETHING.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.)

Speaking of therapy, How is the Ellis Hot Canned Chili withdrawel going ? George is a usenet tyro…which is even more perfect ! I abhor a stale newsgroup ! TimW

Response:

snip And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

My own smoke in the eye heritage has more to do with people I’ve known than someone who refers to himself as a Professional Sportsman. Ross

Response:

I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

  I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,     Harry   ( it does have some merit though)

Response:

: : It was kind of intense. :   I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,   I’m guessing Spinolio often fishes alone.  Perhaps too often. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

Response:

I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

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Aw T, you might lose your Crumudgeon membership card for this post, but I’d hate to see the reaction we saw to his forcefully stated position, drive George or anyone else off this/these groups. jg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

I like this ng. People come here, share their opinions about fly fishing, and other subjects. I’ve met some who come here. They, every one, every bit as respectable as the icons we hold up as the Patriarchs of fly fishing. Yes, I may have been loading my shorts when such people were exploring western trout waters that have long-since been relegated to stories. But I’d sooner find myself on a river with a Rick Fletcher, a Randy Shrock, or a Charlie Quinton than any of the people we may place in that category. The people who have contributed to most to this heritage, the individuals who do so now, have never gone noticed by an equipment manufacturer, a fishing magazine, or notoriety of any form, largely because if it came their way, they’d be too focussed on a floating dry fly, or taking a son or grandson beyond the hedonistic tendencies of human nature that impede the discovery of fly fishing. Mitch

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.) — -Wayne Trzyna

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

Let me add ‘em up…1, 2, 3 (well, not to Rush…)… Yeah, I guess I am…. PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. TimW Thumper vor VP !

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Question:

Went to the Orvis School in Vermont. Got my money’s worth but in retrospect not a neccesity to learn. Specifically helpful with casting technique. Get a good book on the basics of fly fishing before you go to any class anywhere. Then decide if you really want to go. Great sport.

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writes: As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi

I just completed the Orvis Fly Fishing school at their corporate headquarters in Vermont.  Most of the time is spent on the mechanics of casting (including many different types.  Only about 1/2 day si spent on the river, but you can go on the river after the class. I thought it was great.  I feel like I learned so much on reading water, tying the knots, casting and the equipment, and even bugs. I would recommend it! Mac

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi

Of course Avi, I think you should travel a little farther out west and attend one of my schools at the Arcularius Ranch near Mammoth Lakes in the Eastern Sierra, or at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek in Northern California.  The classes are small & I understand the instructors are excellent ;^  (I’m one of the instructors). E-mail me if you’re interested.                                              Thanks,                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi Team OS/2                  847.808.3913

How can I answer your question delicately…  NO- it might be alot of fun but there is another way to learn flyfishing. Get to know some of the local oldtimers in the streams where you live.  This is not necessarily easy to do but there are some great benefits- they know the waters local to you, know the hatches and patterns and best of all they can become friends to go fish with. One suggestion- a flyfisherman with all the gear (ie "decked out by cabela’s") doesn’t always know whats going on. Best wishes- you’ve selected a wonderful new hobby. Lee Clore "flyfishing is life"

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I have been to the school in evergreen, CO. You are right it is costly. I HAVE BEEN FLYFISHING FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS AND GOT SOMETHING OUT OF THE PROGRAM. BUT, THIS PROGRAM I SUGGEST FOR THE NEW COMER ONLY.IT IS BASIC. HOWEVER, THE STAFF IS GREAT.  THEY TAKE YOU TO A STOCKED POND THAT IS FILLED WITH FISH IN A WELL DEVELOPED AREA(YOU CAN WATCH TV THROUGH THE WINDOW OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE ALL AROUND}. fOR MY MONEY GET AN ORVIS GUIDE AND TELL THEM YOU WANT A HALF DAY OF LAND INSTRUCTION. tHEM GO TO THE CHESMEN CAYON TO FISH. NOT THE SOUTH PLATEE. READ/READ/READ THEN YOU WILOL GET MORE FROM THE INSTRUCTION

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You had better believe it.  I went to VT for mine…

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It depends on where you live.  Orvis has schools all over the country; go to the one nearest you.  I got started several years ago by going to the Orvis school near NYC in the Catskills.  They teach you the basics, with emphasis on casting on a trout pond.  I then hired one of the instructors (who, it turned out, went to high school with my wife) to take me onto the Beaverkill.  As a newbie, you don’t need the challenge of Rocky Mountain fishing.  Start in a river where you’ll likely catch fish, then move up to the harder (and more expensive) stuff.

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi Team OS/2                  847.808.3913

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Question:

 So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?

I know of a place in Ogden, Utah, just north of Salt Lake where there is huge junkyard.  They have a different area there where you can get all kinds of army trailers, sorry but I don’t remember what the place is called. But you can see it from the freeway on the West side. Joe

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That would be Smith & Edwards Surplus I mentioned in my previous post…. — Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one? The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska. So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA, Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4 Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep. Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc., Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

Try No Excuses, Inc. located in New Eygpt, NJ. # 1 800 923 JEEP (5337) or  609 758 3833 This is the best place to go for hard to find parts for Jeeps.

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Dennis, I placed my order for one of the last 4.0L YJ’s last July.  While waiting for the promised October delivery, I faced with the same dilema of where to put my camping goodies along with my wife and kids when the Jeep arrived.   I went looking for a trailer.  Used military trailers, I soon found, are very difficult to come by.  I found a company north of Sacramento (Helter Mfg. or something like that) that makes a very well designed Jeep trailer.  However, the $2400 price sent me back to scouring military surplus lots with little success. In early August, while fly-fishing in Idaho, I stopped for a meal at Smitty’s in Idaho Falls.  After ordering, while waiting for my food, I looked across the parking lot and there was an army surplus store with a 1/4 ton military trailer parked in front. About that time my food came,  I woofed and went over to investigate.  As I walked in to the store, a guy was writing a check for the trailer.  When I asked if any more were available, I was told to call the next day and talk to Dana the owner. To make a long story shorter, Dana had purchased 75 of these M146 trailers from a base in Montana.  All were in very good shape and were priced firm at $450 a piece.  At the time he still had "several" left in his other warehouse in Shelly, ID.  Apparently a Las Vegas 4×4 club had purchased 10 sight-unseen and were on there way up for them later that month.   I purchased a nice brigadier general’s trailer complete with a star on the back and a pintle hitch for another $30.  The trailer was built new in 1967 and still has the origonal rubber.  My biggest problem was adapting the 1 1/4" mini receiver hitch on my minivan to pintle hitch.  With a little engineering and a little help from a friend in Island Park we rigged up the hitch.  I pulled the trailer down to my home in the S.F. Bay area with no problems. My first purchase for my YJ when it finally arrived in mid November was a Tomken Machine bumper with a 2 inch receiver.  It is a well engineered bumper.  The trailer pulls great and I am in the process of completing some minor body work and giving it a paint job.  They are a well engineered trailer with a parking brake and the full pivet pintle eye.  I have been told that the springs, shocks and hubs are all interchangable with an M38A1, but I have not been able to confirm that.  I can confirm that I still get 20 mpg pulling it behind my Grand Caravan. I was back in Idaho Falls in early October.  Four trailers were parked in front.  I can’t remember the name of the surplus store, but I imagine that a call to Smitty’s Pancake house would get you their number.   It’s a long way from Georgia, but good luck. Bill

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Sorry if this is redeudant. I missed the ezrlier part of this thread. I can lead you to scads of 1/4 ton military jeep trailers. I got one myself with a surge break system (!) for the excellent price of $400. Best place to find dealers is Military Vehicles Magazine. See my earlier and I’ll send you the detalis on the mag and maybe a few dealer names. I am kicking myself for not jumping on a 3/4 ton with surge brakes for $850 a few months back, but storage and ready cash were a bit of a problem then. These things are dynamite-like having a pickup truck at your disposal with no holding costs and very minimal maintenence costs. Oh well, maybe in the future.

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By the way, I paid $325 for the trailer and $20 for a brand new spare tire on a rim at DRMO.

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Check with any local Air Force or Army base and ask for information on DRMO. They’ll know what your talking about. I bought mine up here in Alaska. I’m in the AF and this is where me and my friends got ours along with spare tires for the trailers. I’ve had mine for two years now and it’s still in good shape. It was made in 1964 and has a little rust but it’s only on the surface, it can be sanded off easily. They are excellent for towing off-road or on the highway. I can hardly tell that it’s behind me.

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Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one?  The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska.  So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?  TIA,  Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4  Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA  UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep.  Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc.,  Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

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So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA,

Dennis Hopefully some of these places may be able to help, check out our new Military Vehicle Digest as it develops online: http://www.4×44u.com/pub/k2/mvd/mvd.htm PS – Dennis, we’ve wanted one of those ourselves! Antelope Valley Equipment and Truck Parts 44532 Trevor Lancaster, CA 93534 (805) 945-6788 Sarafan Auto Supply 23 North Madison Ave. Springvalley, NY 10977 (914) 356-1080 Ordinance Unlimited 20945 Osborne St. Canoga Park, CA 91304 (818) 700-2905 Thomas W. Murry Box 214 Dover, DE  19903 (302) 736-1790 Brentmullins Jeep Parts PO Box 9599 College Station, TX 77842 (409) 690-0203 Frank’s Surplus PO Box 555 Bryn Athyn, PA 19009 (215) 947-5616 Military Vehicle Locator Service PO Box 1562 Fort Collins, CO 80522 (303) 221-4920 fax/phone Rapco Parts Co. (817) 872-2403 All American Military Goods 726 West Michigan PO Box 143 New Carlisle, IN  46552 (219) 654-8081 Army Jeep Parts PO Box 1006 Bristol, PA 19007 (215) 788-6012

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Try: U.S. Surplus Expediters PO Box 158 1000 East 1700 South Clearfield, UT  84015-0158 801-825-3489 They have numerous M-101 1/4 Ton trailers, some better than others, a couple were pretty cherry with little or no rust.  They also have some M-105 trailers, the larger ones with 110"x 83" ID on box, used with the deuce & 1/2, which have 9.00 x 20" Budd wheels, good for HUMMERs with a bit of lowering to get the pintle to match up and a new axle with electric brakes. Tell them I referred you. Also: Smith & Edwards Surplus 3936 N. Hiway 126 Ogden, UT 84404 801-731-1120 They have *acres* of trailers and old military surplus. Don’t buy one sight unseen unless you are willing to put up with rust, body damage, etc. and repair it.  Insist on pictures and serial number verification.  Better yet, grab a plane to Salt Lake and inspect it yourself, or hire me to go out and broker for you.  If you are *really* interested, let me know e-mail *this weekend*, as I am going out to Salt Lake on Sunday the 7th. I’m sure we can work something out as far as inspecting/brokering/shipping. Don’t know where you can get the even smaller M-100, which is the genuine "Jeep" trailer, but if you have an immediate need, I can check with a couple of sources.  The key is how much you are willing to pay, how fast you can jump on the deal, and how much you trust the dealer.   I got an absolutely cherry M-105 rebuilt and repainted in 1989 with *no* rust for $450, was quoted $450-650 on M-101’s, and once paid $2000 for an M-101 with HMMWV hubs and a hydraulic surge brake.  As you can see, quite a variance. Regards, — Scott Weiser P.S.  *Always* insist on proper title paperwork, with the proper signatures of the original purchaser at the government auction and the proper chain of title for each owner after. I bought a trailer with the "original" DRMO paperwork from a guy in California, only to find that the DRMO listed someone else, a guy in Utah for which my guy was selling the trailer, as the "owner of record", and Colorado refused to title the trailer, citing the "shadow ownership" as title fraud, a felony. I had to send the paperwork back to the guy I bought it from, pay sales tax in California (twice what I would have paid here), and pay for California plates and registration which I never used, all to get a valid California title which Colorado would accept when applying for re-titling in Colorado.  Cost me about $200 extra. Some states are not as rigid, but you’d better check *first* to see what you need in the way of title papers for an out-of-state purchase of surplus government vehicles.  Make proper titling part of the *written* sales agreement, so you have an out if you can’t get it titled for some reason. ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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Question:

I would like to know about FF in PR.  Also- did it finally rain this year?

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: I would like to know about FF in PR.  Also- did it finally rain this year? : May I piggy-back on Cliff’s request?  My wife and I will be vacationing in : Puerto Rico at the end of January.  I’d like to try flyfishing for bonefish, : if that is possible.  I’d appreciate any suggestions regarding spots to try, : flys, guides, equipment, etc.  I’d also like to charter a boat and take a shot : at some deep water fishing.  Any advice about that would be appreciated as : well. I am by no means an expert on PR….  It is my experience that there are very few bonefish around PR, lots of tarpon though and some permit.  From what I understand, there are no flats to attract bonefish to the PR areas.  I fished down there with an old Colorado ff buddy (who has moved to San Juan) a couple of times.  He has had very little success finding bones or catching fish on fly gear.  On the first visit, I caught a large tarpon (60lbs) using a bassfishing like jig/rubber tail in a mangrove swamp right in the flight path of the San Juan airport!  The other trip we fished some bays and tidal shoreline on the south side of the island.. no luck there that weekend.  Hear alot of people talk of seeing tarpon along the west shore also, but no fishing stories.

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I would like to know about FF in PR.  Also- did it finally rain this year?

May I piggy-back on Cliff’s request?  My wife and I will be vacationing in Puerto Rico at the end of January.  I’d like to try flyfishing for bonefish, if that is possible.  I’d appreciate any suggestions regarding spots to try, flys, guides, equipment, etc.  I’d also like to charter a boat and take a shot at some deep water fishing.  Any advice about that would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Emil

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