Question:

Nothing ventured, nothing gained…go for it.  My experience on Lakes Michigan and Superior in a 24-ft cabin boat has been good, but I venture out with radar, GPS-chartplotter, Loran, 2 VHF radios, 2 depthfinders, and a backup 15-hp outboard motor.  And I nearly always see, at the boat launch, some crusty old fisherman heading out in a 14-ft jon boat with 25-hp outboard…amazing balls. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Unless you get 4 miles to the gallon, forget it.  1/3 out, 1/3 in and a 1/3 in reserve.  Tuna requires trolling, lots at about 8-9 mph.  Not enough fuel capacity, unless the albies get inside of about 10 miles.  I have a 21′ and carry 67 gallon, and get about 2 mpg and I won’t do it.  Post a request to be a hitchhiker on the www.Coastsidefishingclub.com board and you will get a ride and live to fish again. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you. I’ve gone 20-30 miles in the Atlantic in smaller boats than that. You really need expertise in weather observation, a high antenna on a fixed, not portable, VHF radio, an extra battery and enough smarts to know when not to go out. And bring along a spare six gallon tank and hose. Try going out in the company of a couple of boats. And buy yourself some Type I life jackets, the real deal kind, and consider an EPIRB. Make sure you have a way to climb back in your boat if you get knocked overboard. Same here.  The buddy system applies.  Dont’ quite agree with the 6 gallon tank theory, however.  That would get me about 5 miles closer before I choke…..

Response:

Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Be nice Harry… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Be nice Harry…

How can he? He’s the consummate evildoer of this NG. — Skipper

Response:

Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks!

Yikes!  Is it a Force outboard?  I wouldn’t trust that setup, 13 years old, offshore.  Especially if you don’t know how much gas it holds.  How old are the batteries?  Do you have towing insurance?  Just some more questions to think about…

Response:

JAX has just reduced his percentage of useful posts to about 8% with the latests posts…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ben thur, dun dat writes to tell us just how scared he is of the water with: (way to go, bt,dd) geesh.  another guy tied to the dock when the wind is greater than 8 knots and telling how safety conscious he is. Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good. About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Well, I’ve never been "offshore" except twice around Cape Caution, but…    I agree about the redundancy. Get, at the least, a good "get-you-home" kicker with a separate fuel tank.    An in-dash VHF is under $200 – why not? And it sounds like an EPIRB is a good idea too.    Another good idea would be an inflatable dinghy to get into if the boat DOES sink. "Real" offshore boats have special emergency rafts that autoinflate, etc. but you probably don’t need to go that far.    And I can never understand boaters who don’t know how much fuel they carry, or what their range is! DEFINELY find out what your range is, and the range of your kicker, before venturing any distance. Lloyd Sumpter "Valkyrie" Campion 18 – 20 gals, 110mile range – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Your comments on redundancy are right on the money in my experience. On the other hand, I’ve seen those "gentle blue water rollers" break onto the deck of a 50 footer.  On a 50 foot boat that just creates a little commotion for a few seconds, but in a 20 foot cuddy you’re likely to get a sinking sensation. Looking beyond gear failure, there are some other risks difficult to avoid such as late afternoon thunderstorms, fast moving cold fronts, and breaking conditions in the inlets caused by tide and offshore swells.  Things can change in a hurry even on a day that starts board flat and looks stable.  Important to remember that small boats have small safety margins. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I always have been told and adhered to the redundancy rule. A backup for everything when going off-shore. Such as engines, fuel tanks, radios, batteries(you got that covered), safety equipment, food, water etc. Are you sure you want to trust everything to your set up with no redundancy? I spend my time in the mid Chesapeake Bay in a 26′ Bayliner. The rollers there can get pretty nasty with high frequency four to six footers. I’ve been told blue water rollers are more gentle because of the lower frequency. Your seamanship is to be applauded, but I suggest you adopt more redundancy.

Response:

I always have been told and adhered to the redundancy rule. A backup for everything when going off-shore. Such as engines, fuel tanks, radios, batteries(you got that covered), safety equipment, food, water etc. Are you sure you want to trust everything to your set up with no redundancy? I spend my time in the mid Chesapeake Bay in a 26′ Bayliner. The rollers there can get pretty nasty with high frequency four to six footers. I’ve been told blue water rollers are more gentle because of the lower frequency. Your seamanship is to be applauded, but I suggest you adopt more redundancy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

ben thur, dun dat writes to tell us just how scared he is of the water with: (way to go, bt,dd) geesh.  another guy tied to the dock when the wind is greater than 8 knots and telling how safety conscious he is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good. About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy?

Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

30 gallons sounds awfully small for a 20 ft. boat.  

Agreed.  And 120Hp seems like a very small engine, as well. My 18′ CC has a 150HP Merc OB and a 60-gallon tank.   I would strongly advise against going further out, without making some major adjustments in his capabilities. e.g. installing more fuel capacity, and being almost fanatical about weather-watching. I’ve been 40-50 miles out (in a commercial fishing boat) in the Pacific out of Oregon, and it was pretty scary.  Unlike the short-period waves we have in the Gulf, these were HUGE rollers, a city block or more thick.  I’d hate to be out there when they started kicking up. 120hp and 30 gallons of gas, in a 20 footer? No way. Ron M.

Response:

Jim,     I’d be surprised if your handheld VHF was strong enough, 25 miles out, to reach shore without an external antenna. Paul — "The opinions expressed in the article are the opinions of the author, not of Ford Motor Company. " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

I go out about 20 miles off Boston Harbor sometimes in my 19 foot boat, but only when there is flat water and a stable high presure area in place with little chance of bad weather kicking up. I keep my vhf on and monitor the weather channel and radio stations for any surprize weather. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

30 gallons sounds awfully small for a 20 ft. boat.  I’ve got a 26′ powercat with twin 150’s and 180 gallons of fuel and I am always a little nervous (rightly so) about going off more than 20 miles.  A handheld VHF will NOT cut it, as Dan mentioned, nor the 30 gallon fuel tank.  You just can’t trust the weather service with forcasts.  They might say that the winds will pick up in 24 hours, but all of the sudden, you are in 20 kt winds.  Then you are in real trouble.  Usually I burn about 65 gal on a normal 12 hour trolling trip, but once, when the weather turn on me prematurely, it took about 130 gal to get home in terribly steep head seas. In general, I wouldn’t recommend it.  I’m usually the smallest boat out in the deep and I definitely feel it when the weather turns.  There are way too many things that go wrong. BTW, you didn’t mention an EPIRB in your list… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Question:

Remember, half the people you know are below average and they are all right here. The other half is at my place lined up along the Snake River catching Steelhead. So why are you sitting there? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Blanks http://www.gink.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, half the people you know are below average and they are all right here. The other half is at my place lined up along the Snake River catching Steelhead. So why are you sitting there?  Lets everyone go fly fishing.  The run is on!

Response:

Question:

  I am happy to report that there are exceptionally courteous fisherman out there too. Paul

_____  To notice, is impressive Paul.  There is hope! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

There have been a few threads on GDA’s (I think we have a new TLA) lately and some of the tales pale in comparison to some I have run into. I am happy to report that there are exceptionally courteous fisherman out there too. Paul

I guess it’s akin to one unhappy customer who tells 20 people of their bad experience with company xyz and the hundreds of perfectly satisfied customers who tell nobody.  By and large sportsmen/women are a genial bunch and the good far out number the few well, not so good….I guess the exceptions are the ones that stand out and get noticed.  I’ll have to remember to thank my oil delivery man next time I see him. I’m fairly new to newsgroups (this is only the second one I subscribed to) so if this is a stupid question, and I have this sinking feeling it is, feel free to laugh…..but, what is a TLA? Natty

Response:

[snippage] I’m fairly new to newsgroups (this is only the second one I subscribed to) so if this is a stupid question, and I have this sinking feeling it is, feel free to laugh…..but, what is a TLA?

A "Three Letter Acronym", of course…

Response:

A "Three Letter Acronym", of course…

Duh.  See, I knew it was a stupid question. Natty

Response:

"Salmon_Fly" wrote… On Saturday Dave Price an I fished the Ausable in NY. While we were fishing a stretch above the no-kill area I heard a noise behind me and a someone stepped out of the woods and stood at the edge of the River. I was a little bummed because I had intended to work my way upstream. But there was enough room for two people to come in and fish between myself and where Dave was.

Yadda, yadda, yadda… Did you guys fish your bamboo rods? –Steve

Response:

"Salmon_Fly" wrote…

[snip] Yadda, yadda, yadda… Did you guys fish your bamboo rods? –Steve

Don’t ask stupid questions… of course we did. Dave and I met Saturday morning at one of my favorite fishing spots. As we were getting ready another guy was leaving and when we asked how he did and he grumbled somethng about getting skunked. We get down to the river and Dave has a fish on the first cast. I landed a couple small bows before the waders would have done more good over my head. We decided to take the trip up to the Ausable. We fished 4 spots in the afternoon and didn’t see a fish. We broke for dinner around 4:30 and went back out. One of the spots that we saw earlier in the day was vacant so we decided to fish that. I saw a few fish jump clear of the water chasing something but couldn’t get them interested in anything. Then as the sun went down I got my first brown on a #4 stimulator. There were a few more short strikes on it but no more fish. I then tried a fly that Day Tripper came up with. First cast I had a strike 2nd cast I landed another brown about 16". I ended up with 8 browns, two in the 12" range, five in the 16" to 18" and the last one of the evening was about 22". Dave was fishing with a 7′ 3pc that he built on a Leonard taper It was the first time out for that rod. I was fishing a 6′ 9" 2pc that I built based on a Cattanach taper. Paul

Response:

There was another fisherman about 75 yds below me. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I concede that it is strange, pleasant and nice to experience courteous behavior…..but why didn’t he just disturb the water ‘below’ you…..not that I would have thought of suggesting same had it been me….john …makes for a nice day, eh? On Saturday Dave Price an I fished the Ausable in NY. While we were fishing a stretch above the no-kill area I heard a noise behind me and a someone stepped out of the woods and stood at the edge of the River. I was a little bummed because I had intended to work my way upstream. But there was enough room for two people to come in and fish between myself and where Dave was. The gentleman stood there for 10 min or better not moving and I just kept casting. When it was obvious that the fish weren’t interested in the fly I pulled it in to change it. It was then he spoke up and asked if he could cross the river upstream from me. I said be my guest and went back to picking the next selection. When he was about half way across the river I said to him that he was only the second person that ever bothered to ask permission and thanked him. When I went back to fishing I noticed that he was gone. He was crossing the river to hike into a remote section of the river. He wasn’t going to fish were we were, he was asking permission to disturb the water upstream from me.  There have been a few threads on GDA’s (I think we have a new TLA) lately and some of the tales pale in comparison to some I have run into. I am happy to report that there are exceptionally courteous fisherman out there too. Paul

Response:

On Saturday Dave Price an I fished the Ausable in NY. While we were fishing a stretch above the no-kill area I heard a noise behind me and a someone stepped out of the woods and stood at the edge of the River. I was a little bummed because I had intended to work my way upstream. But there was enough room for two people to come in and fish between myself and where Dave was. The gentleman stood there for 10 min or better not moving and I just kept casting. When it was obvious that the fish weren’t interested in the fly I pulled it in to change it. It was then he spoke up and asked if he could cross the river upstream from me. I said be my guest and went back to picking the next selection. When he was about half way across the river I said to him that he was only the second person that ever bothered to ask permission and thanked him. When I went back to fishing I noticed that he was gone. He was crossing the river to hike into a remote section of the river. He wasn’t going to fish were we were, he was asking permission to disturb the water upstream from me.  There have been a few threads on GDA’s (I think we have a new TLA) lately and some of the tales pale in comparison to some I have run into. I am happy to report that there are exceptionally courteous fisherman out there too. Paul

Response:

Well, I concede that it is strange, pleasant and nice to experience courteous behavior…..but why didn’t he just disturb the water ‘below’ you…..not that I would have thought of suggesting same had it been me….john …makes for a nice day, eh?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Saturday Dave Price an I fished the Ausable in NY. While we were fishing a stretch above the no-kill area I heard a noise behind me and a someone stepped out of the woods and stood at the edge of the River. I was a little bummed because I had intended to work my way upstream. But there was enough room for two people to come in and fish between myself and where Dave was. The gentleman stood there for 10 min or better not moving and I just kept casting. When it was obvious that the fish weren’t interested in the fly I pulled it in to change it. It was then he spoke up and asked if he could cross the river upstream from me. I said be my guest and went back to picking the next selection. When he was about half way across the river I said to him that he was only the second person that ever bothered to ask permission and thanked him. When I went back to fishing I noticed that he was gone. He was crossing the river to hike into a remote section of the river. He wasn’t going to fish were we were, he was asking permission to disturb the water upstream from me.  There have been a few threads on GDA’s (I think we have a new TLA) lately and some of the tales pale in comparison to some I have run into. I am happy to report that there are exceptionally courteous fisherman out there too. Paul

Response:

Question:

I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible.

Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t wear a necklace while wading. One slip near a low tree branch and the current will hang you. Hey, to each his own,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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[deleted] Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t wear a necklace while wading. One slip near a low tree branch and the current will hang you.

I pierced my nipples for just this purpose… I’ve got an Orvis Zinger, forceps and clippers on the right and a tape measure / bottle of gink on the left. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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[deleted] Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t wear a necklace while wading. One slip near a low tree branch and the current will hang you. I pierced my nipples for just this purpose…

OUCH!  I think I’d rather be hanged.  :-)      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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The Fly Shop in Redding California carries that product.  The web addy is http://www.theflyshop.com   phone number is 800-669-3474    Be sure to get a couple of those nifty Holdzit products to go on the lanyard. Sharp hooks, Pat    Holdzit.com Bob Grahm asked:I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible. You might try Larry Notley at Pockit Sports Co.in Dallas. I am not aware of his web site, but his address is 7235 Syracuse Dr., Dallas, Texas 75214 Phone 214-553-1845 and his Fax is 214-553-0347 Big Dale

Response:

I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible.

Aloha Bob, Feather-Craft Fly Fishing of St. Louis has one of these in their catalog: Item 621. FLYFISH NECK LANYARD features a super-comfortable neck pad with a dual break away design (no way to hang yourself in this one). Four swivel snaps … yadda yadda yadda. A must for float tubers ! and so on and so forth. http://www.flyfishamerica.com/Ads/National/FeatherCraft98JF.html — Ken Fortenberry

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You’re an animal Timbo Waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t wear a necklace while wading. One slip near a low tree branch and the current will hang you. I pierced my nipples for just this purpose… I’ve got an Orvis Zinger, forceps and clippers on the right and a tape measure / bottle of gink on the left. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

–          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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one question…. where do you hang your priest? waldo

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I pierced my nipples for just this purpose… I’ve got an Orvis Zinger, forceps and clippers on the right and a tape measure / bottle of gink on the left.

    I’ve seen it.  Not pretty.  Functional, but not pretty. JE

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one question…. where do you hang your priest?

Why would I need two ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t wear a necklace while wading. One slip near a low tree branch and the current will hang you. Hey, to each his own,      - Ken If I remember right they have a fairly low test breaking point built in.

              Jim

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[deleted]    I’ve seen it.  Not pretty.  Functional, but not pretty.

How was Delaney ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Well I made mine with some fishing beads and other beads and some snaffles for casting tackle.  Of course if you want to pay $30 to 40 bucks,…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Fly Shop in Redding California carries that product.  The web addy is http://www.theflyshop.com   phone number is 800-669-3474    Be sure to get a couple of those nifty Holdzit products to go on the lanyard. Sharp hooks, Pat    Holdzit.com Bob Grahm asked:I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible. You might try Larry Notley at Pockit Sports Co.in Dallas. I am not aware of his web site, but his address is 7235 Syracuse Dr., Dallas, Texas 75214 Phone 214-553-1845 and his Fax is 214-553-0347 Big Dale

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They’re called lanyards.  I’ve seen them used in the salt and by some steelhead guides.  Make one. Use a piece of wire leader mtl., about 60+lb; cut some 2"/3" pieces of thin vinyl tubing.  Slip on a clip, a pc of tubing, a clip, tubing, etc..  Put the cable together with crimp sleeves, cover it with a pc of vinyl and go fish. BTW; make the thing big enough that you can pull your head out of it if it got caught on something.  Heard of a fellow…Ah, long story. BB

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I usually wear my best pearl string. But if you ask the ‘dudes’ out here they’ll tell you they usually wear a snot covered faded bandana. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible. Aloha – bob    ooo_ — http://www.aloha.net/~bgraham

Response:

Bob Grahm asked:I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible.

You might try Larry Notley at Pockit Sports Co.in Dallas. I am not aware of his web site, but his address is 7235 Syracuse Dr., Dallas, Texas 75214 Phone 214-553-1845 and his Fax is 214-553-0347 Big Dale

Response:

I’ve seen a necklace with beads, clips and zingers for carrying fly fishing tools, etc.  Can anyone tell me where I can get one?  Point me to a web page if possible.

Bob you naughty boy, don’t you know you can get leather thongs & beads at an arts & craft store  An alternative to leather is to use a boot lace. Lot’s of great stuff at the crafts stores BTW (for less than the cost at fly shops).  Speaking of beads, beading wire is useful for ribbing on nymphs.  Also available at craft stores are 5 mm pom poms for mini glo-bugs, 1/4" elastic for making leader spool tenders, doll eyes for streamers, etc.   Some bead stores are popping up at shopping malls; metallic alphabet beads to spell out your name or initials are a nice touch.  You can get the zingers and clippers at the fly shop.  I don’t like wearing my fishing necklace anymore since it tends to get in the way of my chest pack but if you wear a vest such a device can be very convenient. Mu Young Lee      Ann Arbor, MI   USA

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Question:

Matt, This isn’t a "trip report" – this is a "day in the life report" and I hate you for it! Stop posting cruel things like this. -Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get).Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack.Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted…P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

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believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

Yikes! I guess that explains your "Frequent Cardiac Surgery Card", George! ;^) /daytripper

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believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

George, I thought you told me you were diebetic.  (?) All those carbs AND sugar! Dave

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I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get). Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack. Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted… P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

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Wonderful little stream near Boone.  Fish it often and enjoy the Brookies as well as some of the local company.  Glad you like it too.  See you there! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.     I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get).     Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack.     Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted…     P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

Response:

P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

your condolences are most welcome, guess they couldn’t see my size 20 dry in all that big moving water. that’s ok….. i probably should have tied on an "ollie" like you did. for gods sake, it’s january, too early for dries. waldo

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Walt, you might want to go smaller next time. The sulphurs won’t be hatching for months;) Try a 28 midge, they were nailing them last week. You were fishing the stocked section, right? <grin I heard those fish were easy to    -**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.remarq.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

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Walt, you might want to go smaller next time. The sulphurs won’t be hatching for months;) Try a 28 midge, they were nailing them last week. You were fishing the stocked section, right? <grin I heard those fish were easy to    -**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.remarq.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

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Matt, That post just shows what a low down bum you really are!  Here’s the rest of the world, slaving away at the daily grind and YOU are fishing – in the backyard no less!!! Have you NO shame?! Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes."

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Question:

writes: `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Float tubes are fine, but Baum Lake is really more like a slow moving section of Hat Creek than a real lake and there is a current in it.  If you use a tube, use an anchor, and be prepared to walk back from the far end of the lake as it is easier to walk back than to kick your tube back up current.  A pram or better yet a canoe is a better choice if you have one.                                           Good fishing,                                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Yes, a float tube, pram or canoe are all good ideas for Baum. Take in some stream fishing in the area too.  But be careful fishing under the powerlines if you visit Hat Creek Powerhouse#2 riffle.  They have a magnetic effect that causes otherwise sane anglers to wade and cast within ten feet of each other. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Response:

I would say that a float tube venture is ok, but there is a good enough flow that it will make getting back a bit tuff. However, there is a trail on one side of the lake that you can return on. Personally, I use a canoe. Always play it safe! Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Response:

Question:

We are planning a warm weather bonefishing vacation for mid February.  My son and I want to try flyfishing for this great saltwater fish for the first time in a location that will provide good, relaxing beach time for my wife. I  know nothing about the possible seasonable impact on the quality of the fishing.  I am looking for help on where we should plan to go in February (Florida Keys, Bahamas, Carribean, Mexico?).  Please advise.

Response:

You could try any of those locales,but at that time of year, the farther south you go the better your chances for good weather. I’d put my money on Belize, and again the farther south the better. Look into going to Placentia. Even if you have bad weather, you can always go up into the monkey river to fish and there are lots of diversions for non fishing people. The Bones are small but plentiful,and there are Tarpon and you can expect to see LOTS of Permit. If the weather is VERY good you can go out to the reef and catch just about anything. Phil

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Question:

Once upon a time after a full day of fishing I tied on a olive

wooly bugger, turned around and cast down stream and let all of my line out in the current.  The I started reeling, yes thats right reeling the line back in.  And guess what.  The trout loved it. Hope I am not stipped of my rod and waders for admit<<< Hey, they call that slamming fish where i come from, and its a hell of technique.  Works great for steelhead and salmon. Tom — "For the love of the fly, the cycle of spring, and all things that remind us of nature’s cruel dance."

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Colin Albert writes: My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I saidit.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the onlyone that ties this on when nothing is working???

I use the Royal Wulff #14 on small mountain streams in New Mexico. It is the best single producer for me. I wonder how much color can be seen from below water, and how much the fisherman can see. May improve the fisherman’s odds ? Nothing makes a more attentive fisherman than a fly that he thinks is going to work ! Arch Thiessen an indian trader from Santa Fe ******* Arch Thiessen                                                 "never put off ’till tomorrow what can be put off ’till next week" . . . anon

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My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I saidit.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the onlyone that ties this on when nothing is working???

I’ve caught alot of Brown Trout on the Royal Wulff in the small lakes in the hills of Mid Wales. It seems to work especially well in a flat calm and can bring fish to the surface if twitched rather than fished static. I’m never sure if this is simply because of the disturbance caused or whether the pattern has something to do with it. A Grey Wulff of the same size doesn’t seem to have the same effect. Any answers? Oliver Hides BBC Wales Cardiff.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I saidit.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the onlyone that ties this on when nothing is working??? I’ve caught alot of Brown Trout on the Royal Wulff in the small lakes in the hills of Mid Wales. It seems to work especially well in a flat calm and can bring fish to the surface if twitched rather than fished static. I’m never sure if this is simply because of the disturbance caused or whether the pattern has something to do with it. A Grey Wulff of the same size doesn’t seem to have the same effect. Any answers? Oliver Hides BBC Wales Cardiff.

Once upon a time after a full day of fishing I tied on a olive wooly bugger, turned around and cast down stream and let all of my line out in the current.  The I started reeling, yes thats right reeling the line back in.  And guess what.  The trout loved it. Hope I am not stipped of my rod and waders for admitting this. heheh Tom

Response:

: : : : I’ve caught alot of Brown Trout on the Royal Wulff in the small lakes in the : hills of Mid Wales. It seems to work especially well in a flat calm : and can bring fish to the surface if twitched rather than fished static. I’m : never sure if this is simply because of the disturbance caused or whether the : Once upon a time after a full day of fishing I tied on a olive wooly bugger, : turned around and cast down stream and let all of my line out in the current. :  The I started reeling, yes thats right reeling the line back in.  And guess : what.  The trout loved it. Hope I am not stipped of my rod and waders for : admitting this. heheh : Tom Anyone who would strip you of anything for catching fish on a particular fly is just a snob.  I have had lots of luck with wooly buggers as well as Royal Wulffs.  I think the Royal Wulff is a beautiful fly and is described by the original tyer Lee Wulff as a nice desert for fish…

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Question:

The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Ditto.  I had more hookups while playing the game for 3 minutes than I’ve had on my previous 3-4 days on the McCloud.  Well, for $50, you don’t want to be skunked! Frank Holminski’s (sp?) response was that this game reflects the seasonal hatches and conditions you’ll encounter on this great river.  So, the buy the game and you shouldn’t have any zero-fish days — although I heard nothing about a money-back guarantee! I must admit, at the San Mateo show last weekend, whenever someone got a hookup, and you’d hear the ol’ reel scream through the PC speakers, that attracted more bystanders, as well as getting your adrenaline going!   For us Mac users, Frank says a Mac version may be developed later if they can get funding…my God, is not even flyfishing exempt from "vaporware"? Bill Uyeki

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Yeah, got sucked into it myself.  In fact, my buddy bought me a copy.  I don’t find it a problem to run it outside of windows.  Alt+M to lose the music.  Can’t wait for new fishing holes, and maybe some different tunes. Chatted the whole thing up with Frank H. while I was there.  Cool game. The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Response:

Many people think the Fly Fishing the McCloud River Game is CD ROM when they see it demonstrated. It is not but to get the great scans and animation that truly give the feel for dead driting an Adams or nymphing with a PT,  the game’s program uses approx 550 K of conventional memory while running.  This requires a memory mgt solution such as memmaker. The program is only 2.7 meg.  The game was the show stopper at the San Mateo ISO this past week, just ask Lefty DH

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Does anyone have any experience or comments about  this product?

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p because you need a config.sys with virtually nothing else configured for the program to run.  Once going, is challenging and fun.  Without sound, is hard to judge when fish are running.  Good luck.

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Question:

Wayne Trzyna writes: I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch & keep. There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major population centers.  (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely nervous fish.)  I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K fisheries (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives away).

Well said. Love those Nervous fish !

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Nahm writes: I can’t believe that 2% of Pat’s catch is killed!  Responsible C&R with artificial bait  should result in much lower kills than that depending on hook type & size and handling technique.  Throwing fish over your shoulder probable doesn’t count as responsible C&R. I saw this technique recently on a fishing show. As a fly fisherman I can’t remember the last fish I had die.   I guess maybe I’ve had a few on large streamers.  Way under 1 in a thousand though.   One thing you may have overlooked and that Pat Heron may have been factoring in Chip, is the fact that not all catch and release deaths are immediate.  If a fish receives serious stress from a prolonged struggle, it may be liable to swim away after you release it and die somewhere else in the lake.  Although it is very admirable on your part to desire or attain to a 99.9% successful release rate.

Pat never claimed that 2% of his fish die with C&R.  Pat’s name was invoked by someone using his catch record as a justification or rationalization for keeping fish. A serious C&R fisherman never prolongs the struggle.  Even +20 inch trout on size 20 flys can be landed in a few minutes by a skilled angler.  Again if you release the fish slowly (I’ve held fish for 5 minutes or more and had them rest in the lee of my boot for another five minutes) in gentle water your kill rate will be much less than 2%.  "Lassen Trout" a trophy pond (stocking genetically altered trophy trout in a couple of ponds) estimates their losses at under 0.2% (These are fish that are in the 22 inch to + 10 pound range).  They’ve been operating for several years so they got pretty good data by now.  They’ve got a large investment in these fish, they have to know how to manage their resource.

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I haven’t followed this whole thread because I was fishing in Montana when it started, but I would like to contribute a thought I proposed in our local TU newsletter a couple years ago. Most people who responded supported the idea, but it hasn’t really led to anything yet. I proposed that people who want to fish blue-ribbon, C&R waters should have to pay a slightly higher license fee, and that the additional revenue from that fee should support hatchery programs. I reason thus: planting more trout in heavily fished streams close to the cities would encourage the "yahoos" (as one poster described them) to fish nearer home to fill their freezers. Those same people would probably not pay the higher fee to go farther to catch fish they couldn’t keep. Now, some might object that those of us who supposedly care more about protecting the "natural" resource shouldn’t have to pay more than those who would simply rape and pillage, especially to support their habit. I don’t disagree, but I think we have to recognize some realities. We’ll never turn all trout streams into blue ribbon streams, and the demand for kill your limit and higher limits will continue to put political pressure on fish and game departments (in some states at least) to resist too much quality fishing as the rest of us define it. I look at it as willingness to pay for a privilege. Any thoughts? gc

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says: I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations. The yahoos (your term) do their share of filling their stringers but in many cases this is important because these C&K streams often don’t have the water quality past early summer to support trout.  The yahoos do an efficient job of cleaning out the trout before the hot weather takes over.

Anyone who spends his free time trying to outsmart creatures with an immeasurably small IQ is a yahoo.  ’Guess that includes all of us. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Wayne, YAHOO!!!!!  The bottom line…we all qualify.                                 Scott

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I proposed that people who want to fish blue-ribbon, C&R waters should have to pay a slightly higher license fee, and that the additional revenue from that fee should support hatchery programs. I reason thus: planting more trout in heavily fished streams close to the cities would encourage the "yahoos" (as one poster described them) to fish nearer home to fill their freezers. Those same people would probably not pay the higher fee to go farther to catch fish they couldn’t keep. Now, some might object that those of us who supposedly care more about protecting the "natural" resource shouldn’t have to pay more than those who would simply rape and pillage, especially to support their habit. I don’t disagree, but I think we have to recognize some realities. We’ll never turn all trout streams into blue ribbon streams, and the demand for kill your limit and higher limits will continue to put political pressure on fish and game departments (in some states at least) to resist too much quality fishing as the rest of us define it. I look at it as willingness to pay for a privilege. Any thoughts?

Anyone, can pay an extra fee for the privilege to fish a blue ribbon fee. That doesn’t guarentee that the person is more concerned about protecting the natural resource.  How about requireing that applicant for the special privileges license answer a few questions about preserving.  Sort of a drivers license for fishing.  If someone is going to allowed access to a blue ribbon stream, they should at least know the proper technique for releasing fish so that it may be there another day.   John

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I have just a little bit more to add to the C&R thread. Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. That’s 20 dead fish per year. Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard on the resource as Pat. -Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too! -john — John Danskin                    | Computer Science Graduate Student (609) 258-5386                  | Graphics systems: network graphics & m-media (609) 258-1771 fax              | Escape from Princeton planned 8/94.

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-Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too!

Hence the reason some want to put bag limits on CAR. Though too complex to implement, water temps and flows certainly have an effect on CAR mortality, and should probably determine the limit. Reasonable anglers regulate themselves already. Thomas Gilg

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| | I have just a little bit more to add to the C&R thread. | | Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them | all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. | | That’s 20 dead fish per year. | | Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should | I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard | on the resource as Pat. | | -Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too! | -john John, You are exactly RIGHT.  If keeping 10 fish/year will harm a resource, then no one should probably be fishing there anyway. A guy who golfs at the same golfcourse every day will probably dig it up more in a year than a guy who golfs 4 times a year.   However, the golfing fantatic may also be alot more consciencious about how he treats the grounds because it is his major avocation.  In the case of fishing, the avid angler may be more likely to belong to or contribute to organizations (such as NCWF) which actively seek to protect and improve resources.  I will add that I have not seen any *floaters* from the fish that I have released this year (although some may die later).   I wonder what the statistics are on catch-immediate release vs.  catch – livewell – tournament weigh-in-release. If the tourney boys claim 98-percent, certainly immediate release is somewhat better. I also think that in the summer in the South, 98-percent survival is a bit too generous.  When the water gets into the 90’s there is damn little 02 disolved.  I feel that when you hook a bass in 20ft of water in the summer, they are in cooler slightly more oxygenated water.  Still 02 is low, and the fish quickly aquires a severe oxygen debt during the fight.  When this severly stressed bass is returned to the hottest surface layer, they can have trouble. This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and use continuous aeration in the summer). After weigh-ins at local tournaments there are often several floaters.  The smart clubs police the release location and pick up the fish who don’t make it so as not to add fuel to the fire of public sentiment against tournament angling. Not catching that many in NC lately either and damn embarrased…                         -Pat. BTW, can anyone recommend a good captain/boat for a tuna/dolphin (aka dorado) charter out of NC?

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says: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (wayne trzyna) writes: | I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. | Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch &    . keep | There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major         n populatio | centers.  (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely | nervous fish.)  I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K        s fisherie | (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives     . away) | | — | | -Wayne Trzyna Wayne, This sounds like sports fishing at its best.  Why not cut out the middle-man and allow anglers to fish in the back of the DNR truck? I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations.                        -Pat.

COUPLE OF THOUGHTS:  In Pennsylvania the DER spends huge amounts managing C&K fisheries.  They work very well and the state has a close-to-religious experience with the opening of trout season (deer season also).  The kids are out of school and many people use a vacation day to skip work (or get a mysterious illness that coincides with opening day). The yahoos (your term) do their share of filling their stringers but in many cases this is important because these C&K streams often don’t have the water quality past early summer to support trout.  The yahoos do an efficient job of cleaning out the trout before the hot weather takes over. I would say (in our area) that this fishery helps to cut down on those inclined to violate the special regs areas.  We have a full gamut of special regs waters including entire streams of C&R, flyfish only, trophy waters etc. The good part of all this:  most of the early season "fishermen" hang up their equipment about the time the good hatches start!!  I’ve also spent some great opening weekends on special regs waters without seeing another person…and catching many more (and better quality) fish than I could in a stocked stream. Around here we tend to use the stocked streams as entertainment.  Always fun to watch the people struggle with each other, fish the kids out of the water after falling in, …you get the idea.  Scott Maitland

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| I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. | Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch & keep. | There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major population | centers.  (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely | nervous fish.)  I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K fisheries | (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives away). | | — | | -Wayne Trzyna Wayne, This sounds like sports fishing at its best.  Why not cut out the middle-man and allow anglers to fish in the back of the DNR truck? I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations.                         -Pat.

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Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. That’s 20 dead fish per year. Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard on the resource as Pat.

I can’t believe that 2% of Pat’s catch is killed!  Responsible C&R with artificial bait  should result in much lower kills than that depending on hook type & size and handling technique.  Throwing fish over your shoulder probable doesn’t count as responsible C&R. I saw this technique recently on a fishing show. As a fly fisherman I can’t remember the last fish I had die.   I guess maybe I’ve had a few on large streamers.  Way under 1 in a thousand though.  

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| | This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot | | livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and | | use continuous aeration in the summer). | | I wonder about icing down your livewell too. I put a live pickerel into | an ice chest full of water and ice, and it died (convulsions and then nothing) | pretty much instantly. Temperature shocks in either direction can be harmful. | I guess you just have to use common sense when you decide hom much ice to | put in. I just wanted my pickerel to last until dinner time, and he (she it) | lasted just as well dead as he (she it) would have lasted alive. | | -john I agree,  I don’t think that pulling a bass from a 90f weedbed and throwing it into a 40f livewell (later to be released into 92f surface water) will do the bass alot of good. I also have had trouble with chain pickerel in the warmer months.  I have had several die while trying to practice C&R. I have found that they (along with lure of course) can get really tangled in a landing net having a fabric bag.  The little bit of time it takes to untangle them can be long enough for asphixiation. They can often be released much more quickly if landed by hand.  This exercise is not without its own perils.  I still laugh when I remember John sitting in the boat with the front treble of a Mann’s baby 1- stuck through his pants and into his leg, the back treble was in the mouth of a wildly thrashing 26-inch chain pickerel. (This was even more entertaining then the time when John was helping me remove the hook from a 7# channel cat, the cat grabbed his thumb and rolled and sprained his thumb).                         -Pat.

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It would be interesting to rank the relative importance of:      1. Hook selection            - single or treble            - wire diameter            - hook size      2. Playing time  **        - build up of acids            - exhaustion      3. Damage caused during fight            - damage from line strafing fish                 – body  **             – gills            - damage from fish hitting bottom or hard splash-downs            - setting hook to hard on small fish and launching them              airborne    Smolts especially susceptable.      4. Water conditions  *         – temperature            - pollution            - flow  *         – oxygenation      5. Condition of fish            - prespawn, postspawn, other times            - natural ability to handle stress      6. Handling of fish  *         – contact with gills  **        - damage to slime layer  *         – grip pressure resulting in internal damage  **        - time out of water – exposure to air            - damage caused from removing hook      7. Angler recovery period            - technique used for release      8. Post-Angler recovery period            - predators taking advantage of recovering fish  **        - Continued acid buildup and eventual recovery from Single "*" items seem to be touted in most CAR literature, and the "**" items have been called out in reports/studies I’ve seen as major factors. The better CAR studies track the fish for *days* after release, since most CAR mortality happens long after (12 hrs to 2 or 3 days) the angler releases the fish – even the zippy releases often turn fatal because of the continuing chemical buildups *after* CAR. Thomas Gilg

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Treble hooks should be banned, if anything.

I’ll second that!                                 Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems            ::                         Melbourne, FL

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| This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot | livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and | use continuous aeration in the summer). I wonder about icing down your livewell too. I put a live pickerel into an ice chest full of water and ice, and it died (convulsions and then nothing) pretty much instantly. Temperature shocks in either direction can be harmful. I guess you just have to use common sense when you decide hom much ice to put in. I just wanted my pickerel to last until dinner time, and he (she it) lasted just as well dead as he (she it) would have lasted alive. -john

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Though too complex to implement, water temps and flows certainly have an effect on CAR mortality, and should probably determine the limit. Reasonable anglers regulate themselves already.

How fish are handled has more to do with mortality than total number of fish caught and released.  At least, that is my intuition.   Treble hooks should be banned, if anything. — -Wayne Trzyna

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