Question:

"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

Yes. Tuesday, February 5th. The whiskey and fishing parts were easy enough, but it is damn hard to get her out of her drawers in sub-freezing weather. Steve

Response:

but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that. Mu

Response:

Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout?

You know, I didn’t think of it. I really should have. Mea maxima culpa. Steve

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That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that.

I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu. I mean you explanation of "tired of stockers and want some fockers" was funny and all, but . . . . <g — Warren For Henry’s Fork Clave and Bozeman fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Reverse email to reply

Response:

I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu.

Call me Uncle Milty. Mu

Response:

<Snip As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

I fish mainly from the Pennsylvania line down but sometimes as far up as the Ticking Tomb (the historic graveyard on Good Hope Road). Make sure you have both DE and PA licenses because the rangers like to hide about a hundred feet on either side of the unmarked border and they love writing tickets. In the sections where the trails are far away from the river, it feels rather remote. Most of it is pretty exposed, though. Somebody or other got it in their head that the park was under-utilized and needed better access. They graded paths, installed bridges and built parking lots. This is nice for the community, but bad for people who go for solitary fishing. Also, if you hook your hat or fall in, there are usually a couple of passers-by to derive great merriment. Come summer, the smallies and sunnies will come out and compete with the trout and the fishing never slows down. I go through a dozen or so crickets and hoppers in a month of fishing, most of them worn out from greedy sunfish and smallies. It isn’t a famous river, or a good one. I would never eat a fish out of it and I don’t like to swim or wade wet in it but it is my river. One day, maybe this summer, I’ll head out to Oregon and go after some Cascades salmon or to the Poconos for some wild brookies, but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

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"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

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<SNIP Excellent, most enjoyable. TL MC

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Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. …..

A very pleasing read.  Thanks. JR

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When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it.

Enjoyed it, Thanks. — Roger Ohlund "Home" is River Byske, Northern Sweden

Response:

The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it.

Well told.   Thanks.   Oddly enough, I’m only about 45 minutes from WCC myself, but I’ve never fished it.   A friend of a friend of mine is involved in the stocking, and he and his buddies (which to my dismay include my friend) make an excursion each spring, armed with garden hackle, and unceremoniusly catch their limit in the illusion of sport.   Maybe that gave me a negative attitude toward the river, that your post has washed clean. Maybe I’ll give it a look after all. As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

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<snip Nice. I can see it clearly. Tim

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The White Clay Creek is my home river.

        (snip)         very well done, stephen.  thanks your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

The White Clay Creek is my home river.

Thanks for the post. Be it ever so humble there’s no place like a Home River. There’s nothing that can teach you about fishing like having a river close enough that you can learn its many moods. Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout? Willi

Response:

Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it. In some respects, I hold it cheap in that I can come back the next day. Realistically, any time I don’t *have* to be somewhere else, I can be at this river. No matter how often I can or do visit, it is still my river. On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships. This river I hold as my personal domain and a portion of myself. But when I try to look at it objectively, I realize it is a pretty shitty river for my affections. The fish are put-and-take. The anglers are Busch-drinking worm-drowning Winston-smoking NASCAR fans (these things are not intrinsically bad, but what they do to Dover Downs, they do to my river). The road is next to a college town and full of mountain bikers, joggers and ROTC (they aren’t intrinsically bad, just loud and scary to the trout). When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it. Last Sunday I went to my river and fished it. I knew trouble was in the works: Minivans pulled into the parking lot, filled with rock-throwing children and water-loving dogs, but I have a blind spot where my river is concerned, and I believed that it would give to me as it has in the past. I walked down and looked at the spot I had in mind. The flow was extremely slow, the pool was deep and the rocks were plentiful. Prime winter habitat, I believed. After a few seconds, I noticed the smell. It was a fishy smell, but not a pleasant one. I stopped tying on a nymph and looked at the shallows around me and found the problem. Three twelve-inch rainbows, contorted in the rictus of death lying in the rocks. Whether or not they had anything to do with this pool, I don’t know. I took it as a sign to move on. Of course, as I worked my way further up stream, I had to talk to several small children (which I don’t mind as long as they go away soon), their parents (who are just as foolish without the excuse), dog owners and their wet dogs, the University of Delaware ROTC (a one-sided conversation consisting of cadence) and the ranger (who needed a good look at my license and had to tell me about the October stocking and the season closing a month from now). That morning, I didn’t go to the river for conversation. I reached the next pool, and found that it was too low. So was the next, and the one after that. So low, the normally submerged rocks stuck out. I though about examining them for my lost flies, but that almost feels like grave robbing. Those flies, tied carefully or bought dearly, are part of the price exacted by my river. They are no longer mine (the trees are another matter). The final pool I came to was a huge bend in an otherwise small river, with two unused bridge caissons in the middle. Biologically, these caissons are interesting. They are hotbeds of Canada goose ethology. As I watched, three pairs of geese did their equivalent of dancing and brawling. Who am I to tell them they are acting indecently and scaring my trout? At the bottom end of the bend pool, I cast a hare’s ear. This was the first fly I ever tied. It was rather ugly, but then who’s first wasn’t? I figured that since this was my last pool, losing an ugly fly really didn’t mean much. When the tight loop flies out, watching it with my peripheral is a sublime pleasure. It is a personal triumph, a testament to my own ability and resource. No other person can claim responsibility for that particular beautiful thing. I suppose it is akin to taking joy in some structure I designed or words I joined in a certain way, but this is unique in that nobody taught me or polished me. That loop is mine and mine alone. I drifted through the tail of the pool once and again. On the third, I felt the connection. Fish on. I landed a sprightly rainbow, almost devoid of color on its silver sides. It wasn’t a big fish, even for my river, but it was a work of art like every trout plucked from a river is. After I sent the trout back, I could smell the smell a trout leaves on your hands, one entirely different from the smell of any other fish I’ve ever handled. It smelled like some sort of herb. I leaned against an abutment from a long-gone bridge and lit a cigarette and thanked my river, once again, for a trout. — Stephen L. Cain

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Question:

I am planning a trip to Ontario this summer and want to try flyrodding for Northerns. Can anyone tell me how to rig and what lures to use. I’m experienced at pike fishing but have never tried using a fly rod. Thanks!    

Response:

Ernest, Get Barry Reynolds book Pike on the Fly from Johnson Books.  Barry spends   a LOT of time in Manitoba and Ontario fishing for pike with flies and his   book has everything you need to get started.  He also has a video called   The Flyrodders Guide to Pike on a Fly that is very good. Gregg

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: I am planning a trip to Ontario this summer and want to try flyrodding : for Northerns. Can anyone tell me how to rig and what lures to use. : I’m experienced at pike fishing but have never tried using a fly rod. : Thanks!     A few years ago, I got the idea that I’d like to try Northern fishing with a fly and proceeded to tie a bunch of brightly colored saltwater patterns on BIG hooks.  I also bought a ten-weight rod, learned to tie a bimini twist and then didn’t manage to make the trip. Seriously, though, I think that any of the big saltwater patterns (Lefty’s Deceiver et al.) would do well.

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…I’m experienced at pike fishing but have never tried using a fly rod. Thanks!

PIKE?!? (I hate them I guess practically any fly will do… maybe you should tie a duck or a frog… they eat practically anything that moves -F-

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Question:

I am spending the first week of July in the Brooks Camp within Katmai National Park and wanted some fishing advice.  Can anyone tell me some good areas to fish.  I hear the fishing is great during that time of year but this is my first trip to the park.  I wondered if anyone had any specific advice for areas to fish and hike. I have looked at the various websites and they don’t get very specific.  Will there be mostly Red Salmon that time of year?  Kings?  Are there good Steelhead or Dolly runs?  Any information you would be able to share would be greatly appreciated.  Also, is there any way to float out of the Park back to King Salmon?   Thanks, Rob

Response:

Hi Rob, We had group trips for ~20 years out of our shop lead by my good friend Joe Shirshac. The Brooks river is small (under ~2miles?) and runs between two large lakes. In July there will be lots of Sockeye Salmon and lots of Brown Bears. There is a famous falls there where they observe the bears fishing for the salmon. The Sockeyes are very fresh and fight like crazy. We used a 10′ type 3 sinktip on a #7 or 8 outfit. A 7 1/2′ 0x to 2x leader and small sparse Sockeye flies. They are so thick at times, you will snag them if you strip the fly at all. There are also nice Rainbow trout in the Brooks. You can catch them on green Sculpin imitations, leeches, wooly bugger and nymphs. Some dries work too. The best fishing for the Sockeye is way below the falls down by the mouth going into the lake. The best Rainbow fishing is the stretch above the falls. If you email Joe, he will probably give you some real good info. When he started going there over 20 years ago, they camped out for about a month in the camp ground that is near the Brooks Lodge. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am spending the first week of July in the Brooks Camp within Katmai National Park and wanted some fishing advice.  Can anyone tell me some good areas to fish.  I hear the fishing is great during that time of year but this is my first trip to the park.  I wondered if anyone had any specific advice for areas to fish and hike. I have looked at the various websites and they don’t get very specific.  Will there be mostly Red Salmon that time of year? Kings?  Are there good Steelhead or Dolly runs?  Any information you would be able to share would be greatly appreciated.  Also, is there any way to float out of the Park back to King Salmon? Thanks, Rob

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Question:

Hello. I’m Art Daudelin, a writer on assignment for "Physicians Financial News." I’m doing a piece on Fly Fishing and would like to speak with someone who can give me an overview and philosophy of the sport, as well as some tips, travel spots, etc. An M.D. would make a great subject for an interview, as the magazine is targeted to physicians, but any good insight would be welcome. E-mail me if you are interested… thanks in advance, art daudelin

Response:

If I didn’t fish whenever possible, I’d strangle every911 callin, terminally unemployable slob who gets on teh medic…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’m Art Daudelin, a writer on assignment for "Physicians Financial News." I’m doing a piece on Fly Fishing and would like to speak with someone who can give me an overview and philosophy of the sport, as well as some tips, travel spots, etc. An M.D. would make a great subject for an interview, as the magazine is targeted to physicians, but any good insight would be welcome. E-mail me if you are interested… thanks in advance, art daudelin

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Question:

I would like some information on how is the Chum salmon fishing in Hoodsport Washington. Do you have any tips. Is there any worth wile fishing nearby? I will be flyfishing on Oct. 28 & 29 . We may use our float tubes.

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Yes they are running now.  If you do any good please tell.  Friends say green corkies + yarn work on them, and you can use your tube near the hatchery.  Cheers Paul.

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I would like some information on how is the Chum salmon fishing in Hoodsport Washington. Do you have any tips. Is there any worth wile fishing nearby? I will be flyfishing on Oct. 28 & 29 . We may use our float tubes.

 Yes, chartreuse is the way to go.  I usually don’t fish Hoodsport, but I fish the rivers out that way <Satsop, Chehalis, Wynochee, Humptulips, etc. And I’ve been fishing them for last 15 years, and Green has always been the way to go.  Since you’ll be flyfishing, the green corky and chartreuse yarn is outta the question, just use about a long fly hook around size 2 to 4 that is tied with green, with usually a black tail and most use heavier silver bead eyes for attraction and weight.  I tie up some like that, and use the corky/yarn when I’m using my casting rods.  GOOD LUCK and I know the chum are running!

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Question:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac

Response:

Hi There, I fish that area of Maine a lot during the summer, but I have a boat.  You might try Long Pond, just outside Somesville.  It’s a beautiful lake with landlocked salmon and smallmouth bass.  You can rent canoes there too so you can actually get out on the water.  The bass take surface poppers during the early hours in the summer.  You might try in the middle of the lake in what’s called the "narrows" between the Eastern and Western arms.   You also might want to try fishing for smallmouth on the Union River, just north of Ellsworth.  I’ve never fished the river, but the lake (Graham) is pretty good.   If you want to go farther afield, you can try the Penobscot north of Bangor.  There are plenty of places to get down to the river.  The fishing will be mostly for smallmouth bass.The ride is about an hour and a quarter from Bar Harbor.   Hope this helps. Mac Rubel

Response:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac

Mac, In the park, try upper and lower breakneck ponds and witch hole pond. Also, bubble pond can be waded but I’ve never had much luck there.  I know of no good streams in the area.  If you find any please let me know.  Good luck, Rick

Response:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac Many ponds in the park although I don’t know if they are Open or not.I

think all ponds in Maine are open until the end of Oct. but I am not sure of this.If you are serious about getting some good fishing in you gotta get to the Kennebec River.About 2 hours from Bar Harbor. The Fairfield Area is a good base of operation.Stop by Flyfishing Only and ask Mike whats working.This area has Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and Salmon. Downriver from Fairfield about 20 miles is Augusta and I understand the Stripers are really hot right now.Just fish anywhere below the Edwards Dam. Good Luck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac Many ponds in the park although I don’t know if they are Open or not.I think all ponds in Maine are open until the end of Oct. but I am not sure of this.If you are serious about getting some good fishing in you gotta get to the Kennebec River.About 2 hours from Bar Harbor. The Fairfield Area is a good base of operation.Stop by Flyfishing Only and ask Mike whats working.This area has Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and Salmon. Downriver from Fairfield about 20 miles is Augusta and I understand the Stripers are really hot right now.Just fish anywhere below the Edwards Dam. Good Luck

You might look for the book: "The Downeast Guide to the Lakes and Ponds of Mt. Desert" by William P. Newlin.  ISBN 0-89272-270-3  Downeast BooksP.O. box 679, Camden, ME 04843.  Best luck fishing.

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Question:

Of all the streams I fish in the great upper peninsula of michigan, the trout only seem to bite spinners and worms. I truly enjoy flyfishing rivers over spincasting, and was wondering if anyone fishes the u.p. with flyrods that can give me some tips. Thanks- Muskie

Response:

I haven’t fished the U.P. (I have a buddy from near Houghton who threatens to take me, but that is another story).  Anyway, I can sympathize.  I grew up fishing in N.E. Minnesota (on the other side of Lake Superior) and found the same problems.  Most of the streams were small and choked with cedars, spuce, or alders.  The only spots open enough to fly fish seemed devoid of cover, and of course were devoid of fish. But keep searching..you will soon find that spot with both cover (shade) and casting room.  Try larger streams and look for boulders and plunge pools below rapids and falls.  Searching is all the fun.  Who other that a trout fisherman would spend hours slugging through brush, mud, and mosquitoes for hours to catch a 7-inch trophy. Tight Lines – Zeke

Response:

Dear Muskie: When you refer to the U.P., you are talking about God’s country, which was also shared by the great Robert Traver.  I have spent a great deal of my youth and later years fishing the streams in the Central U.P..  The fly fishing is fine, and some of the best to be found anywhere. Streamers work especially well.  Try a Royal Coachmen, Muddler, or Black Ghost for good results.  The tried and true G.R. Hares Ear Nymph is a favorite, as well as a good selection of Bead Heads, and Zud Bugs.  No one should also venture out without a supply of Adams dry flies ranging in sizes from #12 to #20, also for a pattern to explore with, try a Betty (also called a Coachmen Trude).  The March Brown hatch can be spectacular, and takes place around the end of June through the first part of July, so carry some March Brown patterns. Just returned from two weeks in the U.P., and while the weather was not always spectacular, the fishing was good. Good Luck, Jim J.

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Question:

I lived in Ames (40 miles north of Des Moines) for 3 1/2 years. Forget about finding any trout near Des Moines. There are many small lakes and ponds with good bluegill fishing. Try a small popper or grasshopper imitation late in the day. Dave.

Response:

I shall be comming over from the UK to DES MOINES, IOWA in July 96. What I want to know is, should I bring my rod? Is there any fly fishing to be had in this area or do I have to travel a little further out? Any suggestions for places to fish most welcome.

Response:

I shall be comming over from the UK to DES MOINES, IOWA in July 96. What I want to know is, should I bring my rod? Is there any fly fishing to be had in this area or do I have to travel a little further out? Any suggestions for places to fish most welcome.

ABSOLUTELY!!! Iowa has some of the finest untapped fly fishing in the Midwest. The Iowa Department of Natural Resources stocks trout from April to November. The season is open year round. Many streams have wild populations and several have wild populations returning do to the stocking and management programs of the Iowa DNR. I live in the eastern part of the state (Iowa City), so I am not extremely familiar with the Des Moines area fishing, but there is a shop in Des Moines that can help you. It is the Second Avenue Fly (or Tackle…I can’t remember which) Shop. The foremost expert on fly fishing in Iowa owns it. They can point you to the local hot spots and get you set up with the flies that work. And don’t limit yourself to trout. If you have never tried panfish or bass on a fly rod, you are missing two-thirds of the fun. Both are challenging and provide a great deal of entertainment. I hope that you enjoy your trip to Iowa and get a chance to wet a line. -Nick Zimmerman P.S. Licensing is in expensive compared to many states. The fee is $8.50 for a 7 day non-resident and $10.00 for a Trout Stamp….for a total of $18.50….full year non-resident is $22.50 for the license and $10.00 for the trout stamp. — Nick Zimmerman

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Question:

Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland P.S. – yes, I know I’ll never find a drift boat within hundreds of miles of Maryland!

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Driftboat rentals are available on the Bighorn River through the Bighorn Angler

fly shop in Ft. Smith and other shops there. Denver, Colorado        ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/gwgodden

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland

Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what.   I remember a John Gierach magazine story on the Roaring Fork where he said it’s a good easy float from bonedale to glenwood. Well…it is a good float, but it can be class II-III at times and even the best oarsman hit rocks or bottom.  You have about 800 pounds, $2000 worth of equipment and 3 lives, in a damned river. It requires a respectful approach. If you get screwed in a Dory, dip an upstream edge or get broadside to something, you can die or be seriously hurt, real easy.  Buddy Mike had an accident like that two years ago and had to have fingers reattached.  He had let someone else row the boat, who seemed fairly competant.  Mike has been guiding since before dirt. The first time I rowed a driftboat, I got backwards right where the Crystal flows into the Fork.  The guide (behind me) climbed over my back and grabbed the oars and got us straightened out.  It never happened again, but the guide made me take some burly lines and channels just so he’d feel good about me having the boat on my own.   When we got to the end of the run, he insisted that we do it again…and we did. My confidence soared. That’s what you need, IMO, is a guide like that. TimW

Response:

My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what. I remember a John Gierach magazine story on the Roaring Fork where he said it’s a good easy float from bonedale to glenwood. Well…it is a good float, but it can be class II-III at times and even the best oarsman hit rocks or bottom.  You have about 800 pounds, $2000 worth of equipment and 3 lives, in a damned river. It requires a respectful approach. <other comments deleted

Excellent post Tim.  I think to many people saw A River Runs Through it and don’t give mother nature the respect she deserves.  Each river is different and if it’s at all dangerous should be navigated with a guide the first couple of times. BTW – You are fishing again aren’t you Tim? Vince

Response:

Rental outfits usually rent 12-14 foot rafts with frames which work for float fishing, but are better when used with 5 friends and a cooler full of beer, It’s almost impossible to rent a hard boat.

Response:

My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what.   If you get screwed in a Dory, dip an upstream edge or get broadside to something, you can die or be seriously hurt, real easy.  Buddy Mike had an accident like that two years ago and had to have fingers reattached.  He had let someone else row the boat, who seemed fairly competant.  Mike has been guiding since before dirt.

Hmmm…I’m still not sure I’m convinced.  I’m not _opposed_ to going with a guide, but as I mentioned in the original post of this thread, I’ve been paddling canoes & kayaks in (big) whitewater for years. (That’s up to class IV water.)   Dipping an upstream edge or pinning on a rock are hazards just as serious and real in a canoe as in a dory.   The only thing I can figure that would take getting used to in a dory is the larger size of the boat and slower response time than a canoe. But then some drift boat rowers may argue with that.  : ) Also, oars offer you far greater power than single canoe paddle! At any rate, I wouldn’t rent a drift boat to run a class III river to start with.  (I would feel completely comfortable in class II, though.) Scott W.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

The makers of Hyde drift boats have an excellent video on the basics of using a drift boat.  They are located in Idaho Falls Idaho.  I think viewing it would be worth your time before you tried one.

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I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland

There is a big difference between kayaking, canoeing, and driftboating. Kayak and canoe are paddled forward and you approach whitewater quite differently than in a drift boat. In a driftboat you row backwards into whitewater so the rapid approaches slower, and aim the ass end in the direction you want to go. A raft that you row handles similarly to a driftboat however, so you might wan’t to practice on a raft, which will bounce off if a mistake is made, before trying a drift boat. Maybe the rapids aren’t that big in your area in which case I should just shut up. You could also get a guide and then ask him if you could row for a while, I doubt he would object. Martin Allen

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Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future).

I rented a drift boat by myself a couple of days last July on the Missouri from the Missouri River Trout Shop in Craig.  They shuttled me up to the put-in below Holter Dam and I spent about 14 hours (including a midday break when the river was pretty dead) drifting down to the takeout in front of their place. Fortunately, they served dinner up until midnight or so so that I was able to eat after enjoying the late evening caddis hatch. I’m not an expert kayaker or oarsman, but I am reasonably competent.  I had no problems except one time when I anchored in fast water to fight what turned out to be a 20" rainbow, and then had to raise the anchor because he had most of my line downstream and wasn’t coming back.  I had to go to him.  Its not too hard maintaining a good course with an occasional push or pull of an oar, sometimes with just my knee.  It helped a lot that I had floated this same area a couple of times with a guide the year before, but the river was really quite different since the water flow in early July ‘95 (9,000 cfs or more) was a lot more than in July ‘94 (3,000 cfs). I had a large boat– set up for commercial guiding with an oarsman and two fishermen.  A smaller, lighter boat would have been better. Also, I don’t think I’d want to do it on a very narrow or very fast river.  Trying to fish by oneself from a drift boat on the Big Blackfoot would be pretty hard. Try it; you’ll like it. Phil Holt

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There is a big difference between kayaking, canoeing, and driftboating. Kayak and canoe are paddled forward and you approach whitewater quite differently than in a drift boat.

   True…but _reading_ water is identical in both cases: knowing how to recognize chutes, tongues, shallow water, holes, pillows, eddy lines, boils, side currents, etc. In a driftboat you row backwards into whitewater so the rapid approaches slower, and aim the ass end in the direction you want to go.

Okay, now I’m a bit confused.  I’ve seen photos (I think maybe in the Hyde brochure) of drift boats running big drops and punching holes with the bow of the boat pointing downstream, which makes sense, since this is how the boat will ride most effectively over waves. And whether you’re in a drift boat or a raft, you don’t want to be going too slow if there are any big holes to punch!  : ) A raft that you row handles similarly to a driftboat however, so you might wan’t to practice on a raft, which will bounce off if a mistake is made, before trying a drift boat.

Good idea…I might look into this. Maybe the rapids aren’t that big in your area in which case I should just shut up.

Well, the Potomac River gorge at this very moment is running at over 40,000 c.f.s. — far bigger than many western rivers!  (It averages around 10,000 c.f.s., no small potatoes.) I don’t say this in an argumentative way, but just to offer a slight nudge to western folks who think all the big whitewater is out there! We’ve got piles of gargantuan whitewater within 3 hours of Washington, DC: the Cheat River, the Gauley, the New, the Potomac, the Youghiogheny, etc. etc.   : ) —Scott W.

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Just remember to always keep the stern downstream and take the waves as Head- on as possible. The most common reason for capsizing a hard boat comes when the boat gets sideways in the current and one side dips bellow the water (highsiding) , where the current can push the boat into a rock or even the bank, the obsticle becoming the fulcrum and the boat acting as a lever. Don’t underestimate the power of moving water, use the rocker of the driftboat to push you up and over the waves, always keeping a close eye on what’s ahead long before you get there, the last thing you want are suprises. Hard boats are very capable of taking heavy water, but they row a lot differently than rafts and are much less forgiving. Play it safe and have fun!  PRAM JAMMER

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Question:

Would someone mind sending me or posting their recipe for Dave’s red fox squirrel nymph.  A few freinds of mine are having a lively discussion on the true pattern. Thanks — gp

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Why rely on second-hand responses when you can go right to the source?   Go to http://www.flyfield.com on the web to the Fly and Field fly tying site.  The Red Fox Squirrel Nymph is this month’s featured pattern from Dave Whitlock.

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writes: Would someone mind sending me or posting their recipe for Dave’s red fox squirrel nymph.  A few freinds of mine are having a lively discussion on the true pattern. Thanks — gp

Taken from "Masters On the Nymph", edited by Migel & Wright, 1979 Lyons & Burford Pub. Dave’s Red Fox Squirrel Nymph – taken verbatim from Dave Whitlock, p.135. Hook:           Mustad 9671, sizes 4-18 Body Weight:    6 to 10 wraps lead at thorax Thread:         Black Tail:           Sparse tuft of red-fox squirrel back hair, including                   both guard and underfur 1/2 length of hook shank Rib:            Small oval tinsel Abdomen:        Red-fox squirrel belly fur Thorax:         Red-fox squirrel back fur (with guard and underfur                     included) Wingcase:       Dark brown swiss straw or turkey tail Legs:           Either guard hairs of red-fox squirrel back or one turn                 of dark partridge hackle     The commercial version of this fly is typically tied with partridge hackle, synthetic dubbing and no wingcase – without a bit of red-fox squirrel in the entire fly! Good Tying,             Alan Barnard                         Kiene’s Fly Shop                         Sacramento, Ca.

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Would someone mind sending me or posting their recipe for Dave’s red fox squirrel nymph.  A few freinds of mine are having a lively discussion on the true pattern.

I’ve kept a copy of the original 5 page Dave Whitlock article from a "Fly Fisherman" magazine of many years ago, so here’s a word-for-word recital of same. Dave doth spake unto us, and he said: "Dave Whitlock’s *Standard* Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymph Hook:    Mustad 9671 or Tiemco Nymph Hook, #2 to #18 Thread:  Black or dark brown nylon Cement:  Dave’s Flexament [of course! ;^)] Weight:  Lead or copper wire Abdomen: Belly fur from red fox squirrel skin, may be blended with synthetic            sparkle dubbing. Abdomen should be 1/2 to 2/3 of overall body length. Thorax:  Back fur from red fox squirrel skin, may be blended with synthetic            sparkle dubbing. Thorax should be 1/2 to 1/3 of overall body length. Rib:     Gold wire or oval tinsel Tail:    Small tuft of back fur from red fox squirrel skin. Tail is          approximately 1/2 of hook shank length. Note: Squirrel tail hair is completely unsatisfactory for this nymph’s body or tail! Hair from the animal’s body, not the tail, must be used. That is why [he insists] on calling it the Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymph. Many tyers have confused this nymph with one of the many squirrel-tail patterns." If the argument is about the dubbing mix, Dave suggested the following: Thorax blend: Cut or shave the back hair off the skin and mix thoroughly in a small coffee-grinder-type blender. Cut yarn or synthetic dubbing into 3/8 to 1/2 inch lengths. Place the synthetic in the blender and mix it thoroughly. Now take a proper 70/30 portion of fur and synthetic and blend those together. Abdomen blend: Cut or shave the belly hair off the skin and repeat the procedure outlined above, except for the belly fur synthetic color and the 60:40 fur to synthetic ratio. Notes: – no wing case is necessary. – nymph should be tied "in the round". – thorax should be enlarged compared to the abdomen and losely wound so the     guard-hair tips will radiate to simulate legs, wing cases, antenna, and       gills in a fuzzy "halo" (fwiw: I use a small strip of the Velcro "hook"       material glued to a popsicle stick to tease the thorax on this and similar     hair nymphs). – tail has 4 or 5 guard hairs and a small bunch of underfur. Try to leave only   the tan base exposed (tie down and dub over the gray base hair). – Antron sparkle yarn is great for the synthetic part of the dubbing mixes.     I use their Amber Stone for the belly (abdomen) mix, and a mixture of Black,   Gray, and Brown for the back (thorax) mix. Hope this settles the argument! Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Would someone mind sending me or posting their recipe for Dave’s red fox squirrel nymph.  A few freinds of mine are having a lively discussion on the true pattern. Thanks

Try the Fly and Field web site http://www.flyfield.com/ Last time I looked there were detailed tying instructions and photographs. Simon Simon Lusk Fly Fishing New Zealand on the WWW http://www-aghort.massey.ac.nz/flyfish/intro Department of Consumer Technology Massey University Palmerston North New Zealand

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