Question:

Bruiser wrote… I forgot to thank Joe Fleischman for the great gifts.  The book went to Charlie who may venture to Northern NM once in a while, and the necks went to Warren, the other birthday guy and a prolific fly tier.

Speaking of which, I owe a thanks to Joe.  The funny thing is that I needed those for my fly swap flies so you will probably be seeing them again soon Joe, in a different form of course. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Of course, no offense to the Penn’s Clave.  Let me amend by saying: Henry’s Fork will be the mother of all Western Claves. We’re sending our DH to Penns bruce h

Response:

  Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices. Mu

…and there it is.  summed up nicely mu.  course, a few more and you’ll be hearing their footsteps too <g. jeff

Response:

Jeff,  I’m not sure what brand the Tequila was, but it was good, a Reposado. It came in a brown ceramic bottle with a white picket fence molded into the front.

You seem to have found one I don’t know of.  I’ll look for it on my trip west  I coudn’t read the label with double vision!  You should see the flies I tied though.

Oh, I’ve seen ‘em, and they’re too small to see.

Response:

Wayne Harrison wrote…    ah, the stuff of legends!  it reads wonderfully, and makes us all dream of the fabled henry’s fork, where i will plant the bonnie blue flag of the old north state, come this september.

Every couple of weeks I am going to repost this Wayno.  I am holding you to your pledge of attendance.  I would consider it both an honor and a privilege to fish with you and eagerly look forward to the day.  It would finally ease the disappointment I felt in Ennis. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Jeff,  I’m not sure what brand the Tequila was, but it was good, a Reposado. It came in a brown ceramic bottle with a white picket fence molded into the front.  I coudn’t read the label with double vision!  You should see the flies I tied though. Tripper,  Last night it started snowing and it’s let up a little but it hasn’t stopped.  We must have been living right because the storm held off for a couple of days. Wayne,  see you at the Henry’s Fork.  I better bring my Nuevo Mexico flag. bruce h I forgot to thank Joe Fleischman for the great gifts.  The book went to Charlie who may venture to Northern NM once in a while, and the necks went to Warren, the other birthday guy and a prolific fly tier. bruce h

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

        ah, the stuff of legends!  it reads wonderfully, and makes us all dream of the fabled henry’s fork, where i will plant the bonnie blue flag of the old north state, come this september. your friend in carolina wayno

Response:

 Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices.

Ah, now THAT captures it perfectly.  Perfectly. JR

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

It is indeed. Well, we’ll get some pictures posted somewhere soon.

Definitely! Maybe rw’s got some room? We think the Henry’s Fork will be the Mother of All Claves.

Well, maybe the daughter: I’d say the Penn’s shindig has some scary numbers behind it… Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast.

Very cool, thanks for the TR. It sounds like the water clarity wasn’t much of an issue. And you didn’t mention the weather – did George’s snowstorm give the valley a miss? /daytripper (Glad you all had a good trip!)

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

Yes, my friend, it surely is. Everyone has slow days, days when you are obviously catching fewer fish than your friends.

That only happens to me on the rare days that I go fishing. Thanks to everyone for the nice gifts.  Danl brought me a cool bottle of high quality tequila…

What kind was it?

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

No doubt about it (irrespective of Gwen Stefani’s anatomy) Hate to tell you, Mu and Bill, but Monday was the best day.

First time I ever heard *shoulda been here tomorrow* As if in a dream, that fish opened his mouth, the fly slid in, and amazingly was hooked.  In all my days there, that’s never happened for me like that before. Mu CAN throw the whole line with little or no effort.

<g What you might not have noticed from where you were watching is that half the time I was chucking a Teeny 130 – that’s why it looked so easy to make the long casts.  I don’t think I’ve ever thrown a whole floating line. Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast.

Sure was a blast.  I learned quite a bit.  I’ve never fished such small flies.  I saw fish being caught in some water that often I would have overlooked.  I overheard Bruiser talking to Charlie about looking for fish in some shallow spots and that help me pick up a very nice fish one morning while casting towards shore while everyone else near me was casting to the deep water.  Watching people’s individual fishing styles was pretty cool too.  Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices. Mu

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great? Everyone has slow days, days when you are obviously catching fewer fish than your friends.  Days like those are particularly noticeable at the San Juan, where the fish are everywhere and so are the fly fishers.  Everyone had at least one day of fewer fish, including me, the host.  Imagine that. There was one exception and anyone who reads ROFF knows who that person is. Willi’s unreal.  We keep wondering when he’ll just get blanked, and in the several days I’ve been lucky enough to fish with him it’s never even been close.  Different rivers, different bugs, different conditions, same result. Willi’s letting go of another fish in that familiar fashion – he leans over, quickly grabs the hook, and releases the fish without touching it.  It’s not really all that amazing that he can nimbly release a three pound fish from a size 24 hook in that manner.  Any one of us would be as good if we’d have practiced it 10,000 times  Steve and I were talking one evening after another mini party in an Abe’s room and when we started talking about all the fish we’ve seen Willi catch we started laughing and continued for quite some time.  His skill is uncanny.  Hopefully I’m not embarassing Willi – he’s a very modest guy. Thanks to everyone for the nice gifts.  Danl brought me a cool bottle of high quality tequila that lasted until my friend Arnie arrived.  He’s the western answer to Pamlico Jim.  Charlie gave me one of those cool Fishpond tippet dispensers, Bob another shirt to replace the one he gave me last year.  Mu brought me some French flies.  Yes, I typed that right.  RW paid for my  accomodations and we had a blast fishing together all over the river.  Warren brought a ton of flies for everyone and two tons of materials.  Sorry if anyone was left out, but I still feel like a zombie. We had two or three dinners at the Sportsman (big burgers).  They have dollar bills, decorated with patron’s grafitti, covering the walls.  Last year in December (actually December 2000) I gave the waitress a dollar with the inscription:  ROFF 2000.  In at least fifteen subsequent visits I’ve failed to spot the dollar on any of the walls – my guess was it got pocketed after the unfortunate situation with our tab last year (which we made good on).  On the first night there, we were waiting for a table, and there it was, on the wall, next to the front door.  Cool. The next morning, as we were leaving the breakfast table, a guy at another table asked me if I was Bruiser and if we were ROFF.  Turns out he’s a lurker from Colorado and that we’ve known each other vaguely for years. Wow.  They were in the room across from us at Abe’s and paid our party a visit later that night, contributing heavily to Warren and Arnie’s hangovers the next day.  Something about Martini’s not mixing well with whiskey, beer, and tequila but the details aren’t important.  They are nice guys and it was fun to meet up with them at the clave. The fishing was a little tougher than usual, especially on Saturday and Sunday, when there were more people and fewer risers.  Hate to tell you, Mu and Bill, but Monday was the best day.  Even on the worst days on that river you can sneak up on a big rainbow and watch it pick adult midges off the surface – deliberately, slowly, selectively.  Bob and I cast to one of these guys without a look.  The fish continued eating real bugs,  undeterred by our artificials.  At one point the fish took a midge from *between* the two dries that Bob drifted over him.  On sunday there was a fish feeding in a similar fashion and indulged me by continuing to feed as I drifted three dry patterns over his head.  First, a tiny griffith’s.  He looked at it, but only came to within an inch and didn’t open his mouth.  Next, I tried a single adult midge parachute pattern.  The fish examined it real close, but again, didn’t open it’s mouth.  Then I remembered a fly that I’d had success with before in a similar situation.  It’s a tiny Adams with no wing, just hackle, given to me by a guide a couple years ago.  As if in a dream, that fish opened his mouth, the fly slid in, and amazingly was hooked.  In all my days there, that’s never happened for me like that before. Everyone seemed to have the spot they really liked.  Charlie’s spot is the slack water at the bottom of the cable hole,  slow current and very selective risers.  That’s also RW’s favorite.   Bob and I like to fish emergers in the Upper Flats.  Willi fishes for risers near the dam with dry flies (or a two inch strip of chamois).  Warren liked the channels between the dam and cable hole.  Danl, as well as Mu and Bill, fished everywhere and with big smiles always.  I’ve never met Mu before and he’s very cool, energetic and friendly.  It’s been said about flyrods on ROFF before, but Mu CAN throw the whole line with little or no effort. Well, we’ll get some pictures posted somewhere soon. We think the Henry’s Fork will be the Mother of All Claves. Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast. bruce h

Response:

Question:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean.

I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.   — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Yes it does depend on the river.  The Chattahoochee in Atlanta would be fine but something that is more technical would not.  That’s why I said easy class I/II rapids.  People have the option of purchasing a skirt with these boats.  The companies make skirts that fit each one.  If a person tells me they want to run some easy class I/II as well as flat water, I tell them they may want to purchase a skirt with it to keep the water out.  On the other hand if they just want to do flat water, there’s no need for a skirt unless they want to get a mini-skirt for splash or paddle drip. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.

Response:

You can get into a Swifty and yes it will float but it will sit lower in the water and be sluggish.  The Delta would be a better boat for doing what you are wanting to do and be more in your weight range.  If you really liked it, go for it.  It’s a great boat and I’m sure you won’t be disappointed. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta. A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl

Response:

Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta.  A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Carl – Did you try also posting your message to the following newsgroup? rec.boats.paddle.touring You might reach more users who could help you out there. Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Sue

Response:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

paddled the Carolina in a Basic Sea Kayaking course and was pleased with it. It was my first time kayaking and I had no problems.  It is 25 1/4 inches wide so it will be more tippy than the Delta I believe.  I would be reluctant to paddle a kayak with out some instruction.  Oh, I almost forgot, I am 6′ 2" and found the Carolina a little too scrunched up for my legs.  I rented a Current Designs Storm (17′ l  24"w) today and the leg room was better and it was fast, but it was extremely heavy.  Hope this helps some.

Response:

I have had two Dagger white water boats and have had no complaints about their fit or finish. Are you pretty much decided on a day-tripping boat? There are a number of choices out there, in a number of lengths, and it is easy to get "analysis paralysis". Check out the paddling shops in your area and find out about rentals and demo days. Get hooked up with a paddling club or two and you can get exposure to a number of different boats and opinions. Many folks have more than one and might be willing to help you compare. Don’t worry about making the choice. You’re really just buying your *first* kayak, anyway . (ps- one of the boats I have is a Wilderness Systems Seacret, which is plenty wide (I’m 6′1" and weigh 205) and has lots of foot room, and was surprisingly maneuverable and quick… I bought it to serve as a fishing photo platform, but really like it generally. Check and see when the outfitters in your area are selling used equipment…worked for me, and I got it half price! Good luck! — paddlrat living proof that rats can swim! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone? congrats, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone?

Hey, back off Wolfie, Ernie’s mine.   GRRRRR.   ,      - Ken —

Response:

Well Wolfgang,    We could fight about where we are going to meet tonight. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone?

me think about this for a while.

Response:

The risk of Wheatley boxes (and their clones) is the dreaded Wheatley hatch. Flip one of the covers while you’re in the stream, and chances are that you loose half of the content. Just my 0.02 Euro worth..

LOL! "Wheatley Hatch" – I love it! I had one of those with a tiny Wheatley (Wheatlette?) box which was crammed with minutiae (24’s and smaller), while standing at the Cable Pool on the SJ. I still don’t know how many critters found their freedom that morning… I have two of those shirt-pocket size boxes – all the rest of my W’s use the foam strips. Lesson learned… /daytripper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Plastic with ripple foam or compartments. 6 of em = 1 Wheatly. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hi Mike

Hi Kevin, Suitable fly-boxes have always been a major problem, especially if you engage in several types of fly-fishing.( as I do ). I have found it impossible to find one fly-box suitable for all occasions, and I have tried every fly-boy available. The best ones (  apart from the Wheatleys ) are the ones I have made myself.  If the Wheatleys could be made in plastic ( Oh heresy !!!! ) and floated when dropped, and did not rot, and did not dent when  dropped on the only stone within half  a mile, they would be just about perfect. I started using the colour coded boxes fairly quickly, as the types and styles of fly I use increased beyond my capability of keeping track. There is nothing more annoying than trying to get a weighted nymph to float in the surface film !   I colour code my nymphs at the fly bench, depending on weight, but it is still a bloody nuisance picking them out of a full box, especially when the little red spot of varnish ( extra heavy, ten windings of lead  ! ) has worn off.  Colour coded boxes make the whole thing easier. I admit I am a fly freak, and carry anything up to ten thousand ( yes ! I mean it !!! ) flies on  any given trip, so I have a lot of experience. The magnetic solution is quite good, but still sometimes results in crushed hackles. The hooks are magnetised through contact with the magnets, and tend to spring into positions dependent on their intrinsic magnetic fields, which can be a nuisance, otherwise this method is about the best, especially for large flies. If you get the right shape of magnet, the flies are held securely without crushing. The display magnets I mentioned are very powerful, and will hold even large flies in a high wind. They will also hold tiny nymphs satisfactorily. You should have a look in a good stationary store ( artists supplies etc, ) they usually have wide selections of these magnets for pennies. Get the size and shape of magnets to suit your flies, you can glue several different magnets into one box if you wish, depending on how many types of flies you wish to carry. The reason I use the sandwich boxes is that the marabou and similar wings on large flies just will not fit in standard boxes without half the marabou or whatever, being trapped in the damn lid when you close the box. The sandwich boxes are much deeper.  One of the best boxes I have found is the "Curver" sandwich box. This is three inches deep, and carries pike and saltwater flies perfectly, without crushing, and without trapping stuff in the lid. I have several of these boxes ( they are cheap ) some lined with foam, and some with magnets, I have upwards of a thousand flies in each box. My "medium" size seatrout box contains over three thousand flies with ease. Have a good look round before you decide what to get. Half the fun is getting your gear together properly.  I have spent many a winter night "sorting" flies from one box to another, when I should have been tying. I enjoyed it just as much. I am sure you will get lots of advice on this theme here, and I am looking forward to hearing some of the replies myself. Fly containers are one of the biggest problems for the flyfisherman. TL MC

Response:

Line ??????  I think I just lost the drift ?    What the hell is the matter with you folks tonight ?  Or am I too many whiskies ahead ? Tight lines anyway, time for bed I think. MC

Response:

Nah! Nah! Nah! Nah Nah! Naaaaah! Well, maybe the nerve is the SECOND thing to go George! twitch twitch _______  I would not touch this line with a twenty foot fly rod. Self control George!  Self control! 1,2, 3 . . . pant, pant! I will not rise to this drift/troll.

– Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The risk of Wheatley boxes (and their clones) is the dreaded Wheatley hatch. Flip one of the covers while you’re in the stream, and chances are that you loose half of the content.  Just my 0.02 Euro worth.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest. Hi Kevin, A knockoff of the Wheatley box (about  1/3 of the price) is the Okuma. Here is the link for an Okuma from my site. Be warned, it is a good box but it is not the quality of a Wheatley. http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/okwinflybox.html For streamers, I like a saltwater style plastic compartmentalized boxes, they segregate the patterns well and it is easy to see what is in each box. an example: http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/corunflybox1.html if you have any questions, feel free to ask me… apologies to the group… "John’s" e-mail address is fake. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Response:

. . .  am trying to find the best overall flybox.

I use transparent plastic boxes (Myran? Myrant?, something like that), except for a Wheatley swing-leaf given me as a gift.  In one, about 4×6" I keep all the dries I might be using.  The Wheatley gets all the nymphs for the day.  In several other divided plastic boxes I separate flies by dry or nymph, big and little, but these are pretty much for storage, and stay in the duffle.  Big streamers, nymphs, etc., live in their own box. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil

Mine got rusty years and years ago, the hooks got rusty too.  Am I a lazy slut, or what? Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest. I was trying to see if there was just one box I could carry (being the minimalist that I am), but I think that  you’re right, keeping them stored in color coded boxes probably makes more sense. That way I can get boxes that match the size of the hooks too. Using magnetic fly holders is a darn fine idea!  Do you find the hooks stick OK even when they are jossled around a bit? Do you have any bother with your streamers hanging out the sides of the boxes? I use lots of marabou so the flies are quite bulky. One of the problems I’ve had is finding a box big enough to store them without having to carry a suitcase. Thanks. It’s very helpful to get your advice. Otherwise I’d end up using trial and error and buying a bunch of boxes that are no good. Kevin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks. For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Response:

In one, about 4×6" I keep all the dries I might be using.  

Hmm, I was wondering if drys are better in compartments rather than clipped on. I found it tricky putting them in the coil without crushing the hackle. The Wheatley gets all the nymphs for the day.  In several other divided plastic boxes I separate flies by dry or nymph, big and little, but these are pretty much for storage, and stay in the duffle.  Big streamers, nymphs, etc., live in their own box.

So you don’t use any sort of clipping system at all? Just compartments? Is this easier to find the flys? I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil Mine got rusty years and years ago, the hooks got rusty too.  Am I a lazy slut, or what?

Oh great! I just spent $26 on the damn thing! Said on the packaging that it won’t rust! Kevin Trout laugh at me, Women walk on me.

Response:

Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest.

Hi Kevin, A knockoff of the Wheatley box (about  1/3 of the price) is the Okuma. Here is the link for an Okuma from my site. Be warned, it is a good box but it is not the quality of a Wheatley. http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/okwinflybox.html For streamers, I like a saltwater style plastic compartmentalized boxes, they segregate the patterns well and it is easy to see what is in each box. an example: http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/corunflybox1.html if you have any questions, feel free to ask me… apologies to the group… "John’s" e-mail address is fake. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I just bought my 11 year old son a Cabela’s box with the nubby stuff instead of foam.  We got home and put some flies in it then pulled them out.  It works!  It holds well and lets them go when you pull.  I dropped it about 2 feet onto a table to see how many flies came loose and none did.  (I am pretty sure weighted streamers might pop out under those conditions.) I am thinking about picking some up for myself. (No association with Cabela’s other than as a paying customer.) — — Sherman Dunnam www.flyfishingjournal.com Stream Reports, Free Fishing Software & More

Response:

Whatever your name is AKA John Smith, I tried fooling around with different size boxes for sorting flys and it seemed like a damn fine idea.  What I discovered was the multiple boxes take up more room than a single larger box.  When I tried to create specialty boxes for different fishing situations (ie, small stream box) I always left out the flys I wanted when I got on stream.  I now carry two boxes, one for trout and one for smallmouth.  Bluegill and largemouth are fed from the smallmouth box.  The Millstream box with ripples on both sides worked better in the long run than the nubs in my Cortland box.  I’m going to drill a few holes to facilitate drying if I take a dunking (has happened a couple of times) as the boxes are not waterproof.  Most plastic boxes with ripple foam are manufactured by or knockoffs of the Millstream. Granddaddy always told me a man should be willing to sign his name to anything he writes.  If he’s not willing to sign his name then his word isn’t worth the paper its written on.  If you’re afraid of a little SPAM then get the hell off the internet.  You spend more time ducking it than deleting the crap. Wayne To fish is human…to release Divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Response:

_______  I would not touch this line with a twenty foot fly rod. Self control George!  Self control! 1,2, 3 . . . pant, pant! I will not rise to this drift/troll.

Response:

A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks.  For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Response:

Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison

Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

The cheapest and a very effective example is a plastic box lined with foam.  You can buy a Wheatley if you have the extra money to spend. Forrest Arakawa Forrest – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks.  For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the past ten years or so I have used Plano mini (or is it micro?) magnum boxes exclusively.  These boxes are about 3×4 inches and open on both top and bottom.  There are several sizes of compartments which will accommodate all sizes of flies with the exception of mammoth salt water or pike and musky patterns.  I know it is heresy to suggest that one keep one’s delicate dries in a loose jumble but it has never done mine any damage.  These boxes have the added advantage of being transparent allowing you to see what you’ve got without opening.  They are also VERY cheap; in the neighborhood of two to three bucks a piece. Good luck.

Response:

Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?

John; For the past ten years or so I have used Plano mini (or is it micro?) magnum boxes exclusively.  These boxes are about 3×4 inches and open on both top and bottom.  There are several sizes of compartments which will accommodate all sizes of flies with the exception of mammoth salt water or pike and musky patterns.  I know it is heresy to suggest that one keep one’s delicate dries in a loose jumble but it has never done mine any damage.  These boxes have the added advantage of being transparent allowing you to see what you’ve got without opening.  They are also VERY cheap; in the neighborhood of two to three bucks a piece. Good luck.

Response:

If there is any possibility of loss of flies due to spill or wind you must leave these on the mantel at home. They have no place astream. Your pal, – TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I’m afraid you’re too many whiskeys behind. Line ??????  I think I just lost the drift ?    What the hell is the matter with you folks tonight ?  Or am I too many whiskies ahead ? Tight lines anyway, time for bed I think. MC

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

I am looking for information about good place to fly fish in vermont, does

Response:

Mr. Brigham, Is there a particular fish you prefer and any particular area of the state? James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

Response:

I am looking for information about good place to fly fish in vermont, does

Go to  book store and purchase "Fishing Vermont’s Streams and Lakes" by Peter F. Cammann.

Response:

Question:

-Does anyone have any info on a new disease appearing in Irish frmed salmon called Nervous Mortality Syndrome? Has it spread to any wild stock? Wild Fish First Socety C Mckee

Response:

Actually, its a hangover.

Response:

. sfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.dire c

Question:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in the southeast corner of the state has been found to contain infected fish.

Response:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in the southeast corner of the state has been found to contain infected fish.

Hi This is certainly bad news.  Unfortunately this disease will probably take a lot longer to get rid of than it took to get it; if ever. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in the southeast corner of the state has been found to contain infected fish.

Does anyone know of any studies on the effects of WD on steelhead.  I fear the worst, but I would be interested in any facts anyone may have? Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

I was very interested in this message, given any potential of this awful discease coming to Canada.

Several years ago–when the news about whirling disease first hit the Montana newstands, I remember feeling angry, and somewhat depressed… "here we go again," I thought: hominid over-popuation-polution run amok. suggested that the low rainbow numbers in Montana’s Madison river were more due to poor fish & game regulations than whirling disease. medicago was particularly critical of Dick Vincent, who is a local fish and game hero, for pioneering our "manage for wild trout" policy. medicago ventured the real reason for such low rainbow numbers was over-fishing and redd trompling during the spawing months in March and April. He also predicted that other river systems–that experience less intense fishing pressure than the Madison–would exhibit more resilient rainbow populations. I thought he was a fool.    The jury is still out. But perhaps I (we) were the fools after all. Whirling disease has been found in many drainages in Montana now, and as far as I know, only the Madison has suffered such a catastrphic population loss. Perhaps the combination of over-fishing AND whirling disease is just too much for the rainbows to handle. Perhaps we all need to fish a little bit less. I’m not taking sides here, just raising a few questions….. —

Response:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in the southeast corner of the state has been found to contain infected fish.

I was very interested in this message, given any potential of this awful discease coming to Canada. Should anyone be aware of any accounts of this that can be substantiated (or along the border)I would like to know. Hopefully there will be no messages! Tight Lines Don Stokes Outdoor Columnist in Kingston Ont. area of CANADA

Response:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in the southeast corner of the state has been found to contain infected fish. This news really makes me sad.  Beautiful country and absolutely

wonderful river – my favorite in eastern Washington.  George is probably just as ticked, seeing as how this section of the G.R. is just a hop, skip and a jump from Asotin. Brett

Response:

I was very interested in this message, given any potential of this awful discease coming to Canada. Several years ago–when the news about whirling disease first hit the Montana newstands, I remember feeling angry, and somewhat depressed… "here we go again," I thought: hominid over-popuation-polution run amok.

Text Deleted…    The jury is still out. But perhaps I (we) were the fools after all. Whirling disease has been found in many drainages in Montana now, and as far as I know, only the Madison has suffered such a catastrphic population loss. Perhaps the combination of over-fishing AND whirling disease is just too much for the rainbows to handle. Perhaps we all need to fish a little bit less. I’m not taking sides here, just raising a few questions….. —

In California we have had WD for decades. The Truckee River was where it was first noticed, over 40 years ago. If you go to that river you will see a lot of trout – rainbows and browns. One of my favorite places to fish in the Sierra mtns. has had WD for 18 years. It’s got a lot of trout. WD is a serious disease, and I hope the people involved continue to work towards a cure, but WD is not the end of fishing for trout. It’s not the doomsday disease some people make it out to be. Perhaps there are less trout than there would be without WD, but I still have fun and catch fish in WD positive waters. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

A news item in Seattle this week — Whirling Disease has come to Washington waters.  The Grand Ronde River in Does anyone know of any studies on the effects of WD on steelhead.  I fear the worst, but I would be interested in any facts anyone may

Hmmm, I was just wondering the same thing.  The Grand Ronde has always had such a neat looking strain of steelhead, it would be sad to see them wiped out. -Burton

Response:

Question:

You want: Trout and Salmon Rivers and Lochs of Scotland Bruce Sandison Merlin Unwin Books.

Question:

I have always been interested in taking up fly fishing, but just haven’t done anything with my interest. I would like to take the plunge this summer. I am planning a camping a camoing trip in August in the Mammoth Lakes are(California) and would like to try fly fishing. I would appreciate advice on how to get started. Can you rent equipment, or should I buy? Are there classes or videos on the basics?              I appreciate any help I can get.                                                   Steve Schenkel

Response:

I have always been interested in taking up fly fishing, but just haven’t done anything with my interest. I would like to take the plunge this summer. I am planning a camping a camoing trip in August in the Mammoth Lakes are(California) and would like to try fly fishing. I would appreciate advice on how to get started. Can you rent equipment, or should I buy? Are there classes or videos on the basics?

Hi Steve, There are several things you can do to get started. First and probably most important locate a Pro Fly Shop in your area if possible. There you can get information, instruction, videos (buy or rent), and rent equipment. One word of advise: save yourself a lot of frustration and invest in a casting lesson or two. I’d rather see you spend a little money learning skills rather than jumping right in and buying a rod/reel etc.that you have no idea how to use. I also believe the best rod in the world does a poor job in the hands of someone who does not know how to use it. Another way to learn and get started if a shop is not available is a local fly fishing club. You can contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 1-800-618-0808 and ask for the information on an affiliate club close to you. There you may be able to get instruction and help you need. While talking with the FFF at the 800 number you might purchase a couple of their instructional booklet regarding fly fishing – Introduction to Fly Fishing and a book on beginning fly casting (I forget the name). They cost about $2.00 each and are a good way to get inexpensive information. Stay in touch with the group. As you learn and progress I’m sure you will have more questions. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (new 96 catalog)

Response:

I have always been interested in taking up fly fishing, but just haven’t done anything with my interest. I would like to take the plunge this summer.

Dear Folks; Fish with someone who knows how.  Learn how to be successful and catch some fish.  You need to learn what you are going to need to learn. Sound confusing?, its not.  Find-out what type of water you have available.  Your "mentor" should be able to fill you in.  What you DON’T want to do is be a generalist.  You cannot buy those fly kits with the "basic" flys for, say, all eastern streams: probably will be marginally successful.  The general, basic, elementary classics of flyfishing will come to you as you become more acquianted with the sport.  If there is no waters near you where you need to cast far, then don’t waste your time learning to double-haul cast.  See, its stuff like this that gives you a false impression as to what you need and what you will be doing. You do need to know how to cast and learn what you need and what it is called.  That general info. is good.   But don’t be watching flyfishing for Bass, then Pike, then Tarpon, then Western trout, then Eastern trout and think you need to do what the people you saw were doing.  It will not apply.  Conform your equipment and style to the kinds of water you will be fishing initially, and you will be on you way to successful and enjoyable fishing. Sincerely, Jason Beary

Response:

I have always been interested in taking up fly fishing, but just haven’t done anything with my interest. I would like to take the plunge this summer. I am planning a camping a camoing trip in August in the Mammoth Lakes are(California) and would like to try fly fishing. I would appreciate advice on how to get started. Can you rent equipment, or should I buy? Are there classes or videos on the basics?

Hi Norma, Classes are the way to go if you want to learn quickly.  Specifically I’d recommend classes that teach casting, knots, where trout live (reading the water), what they eat (entomology – bugs), all about tackle (entirely too easy to spend lots of bucks on great stuff and not get what you need), conservation, and etiquette.  In addition to this they should feature on-stream fishing as line control problems and "dead drift" tactics really need to be taught one on one in the water not in the classroom.   Just like the classes we offer (surprise!!).  E-mail me if you would like a schedule of classes. If  classes are out of the budget, the next best thing is to take a casting lesson and then hire a guide for the next day.  You can get the basics in a couple of hours and then get out on the stream and do some fishing with a guide who knows where the fish are and what it takes to catch them.  Be sure to tell the guide you want to learn about reading water and how to get a dead drift.  Usually the guide will have equipment available for you to rent or use.  This will get you a feel for it without making any big purchases ahead of time.  After you’ve had the casting lesson, even with those minimum skills, you will be able to cast different rods to see which one feels best.  Don’t buy a rod without casting it. After being in the water fishing, you will get a feel for what all this gear does and what is important (use *polarized* glasses for fishing, regular sunglasses are worthless for spotting fish or watching your fly). If you’re going to be in Mammoth Lakes stop at the Trout Fly (619) 934-2517.  They can arrange a guided trip on Hot Creek, the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, or other small streams in the area.  If you get a chance stay at the Arcularius Ranch on the Upper Owens a little north of Mammoth Lakes.  Definitely get a guide for the Arcularius Ranch.  It has lots of big fish in a small stream but they are very difficult to catch.  A stealthy approach is half of it, but If you don’t get a dead drift, it doesn’t matter what fly you’re using, you won’t catch fish. A couple of videos that will help are " Essence of Fly Casting" (not vol. 2) by Mel Krieger and The Skills of Fly Fishing by Gary Borger.  Mel

Question:

I would apperciate any info on stillwater flies and stillwater fishing.(the best flies and their artificial possibly??) I want to start fishing the mountain lakes up  in the cascades this summer in Oregon. THANKS-SO-MUCH!!!!!! Ron

Response:

I would apperciate any info on stillwater flies and stillwater fishing.(the best flies and their artificial possibly??) I want to start fishing the mountain lakes up  in the cascades this summer in Oregon.

Rex Gerlach, Fly Fishing the Lakes (Winchester 1972) —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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I would apperciate any info on stillwater flies and stillwater fishing.(the best flies and their artificial possibly??) I want to start fishing the mountain lakes up  in the cascades this summer in Oregon. THANKS-SO-MUCH!!!!!!

For this region you should read Brian Chan’s  Stillwater flyfishing strategies from Frank Amato pubs.  He describes the bugs and life and flies and retrieves for each. Here’s my contribution: A large part of the trout diet in the rich alkaline lakes of the eastern slopes is made up of scuds (gammarus) and midges (chironomids).  I tie small nymphs entirely of maribou – I think the maribou moves well in the water on very slow retrieves. I can fish them on a sink line near the bottom to imitate the scuds with a few quick strips then stop for a few seconds.  Or I can imitate the chironomids nymphs by using a floating line and long leader, letting the fly sink well down then using a very slow twitch retrieve so the fly is moving up towards the surface. Vinnie Fluffy: Tail – 5-10 maribou ends. Body – same 5-10 maribou fibers, twisted together then wrapped up the shank as you would wool or dubbing. The fibers should make a soft fuzzy tapered body. Hackle/collar – optional – collar of peacock herl or maribou tips tied in. Try olive, brown, orange, grey or black. Prince Nymphs, Pheasant tails, and hare’s ears in sizes 12-18 all work well for me in these waters. Leechs are also very effective in east side lakes, best fished SLOWLY on intermediate lines.  This is a whole ‘nother science that I don’t have time to expound on now.  If you have the money you would learn priceless knowledge and guarantee future success by hiring guides Jay Fair of Susanville CA or Denny Richards of Klamath Falls OR for their advanced stillwater flies and techniques. BTW, try to resist the temptation to use less than 5 lb.tippet; you’ll regret it.  Point the rod straight down the line so you can really feel it directly and keep your drag loose. Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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I’ve been looking at the drift boats kits online from Greg Boats and Ray’s Dories. Has anybody built one of these boats for fly fishing? How did the building go, any tips? Also, who did you buy the kit from? Any info would be appreciated.

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Check out Greg Tatman’s kits.  I built the 12′ river pram.  After all said and done it cost a little over a grand to build and fully outfit. While a 2 person boat, it fishes best as one person rig.  Stable as well as maneuverable.  It fishes the steelhead rivers here on the Olympic Peninsula and Snake River drainages just fine. I would select it again in a heartbeat.  It came with a good set of instructions and when I got stumped, Greg was glad to answer questions.  It took about 4 months of week ends, maybe 80 hours. I do not have the number at hand, but call information and ask for Tatman Boats in Springfield Oregon. Bart Phillips

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been looking at the drift boats kits online from Greg Boats and Ray’s Dories. Has anybody built one of these boats for fly fishing? How did the building go, any tips? Also, who did you buy the kit from? Any info would be appreciated.

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I built a Don Hill Drift Boat a 16 ft. Guide Boat, it is a great kit comes complete with video and instructions. The boat took about 120 hrs to build and Don has a 1- 800 Number if you have any questions. He and his staff aim to please the customer and if I was going to build another boat it would be his. Also Greg Tatman used to work for Don before going into business. Call Don Hill @ 1- 800878 – 5488 and tell him you heard about him from Kent Anderson in Nashville Tn. fly fishing

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I built a Don Hill Drift Boat a 16 ft. Guide Boat, it is a great kit comes complete with video and instructions.

Whadja pay ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Thanks for the info. I’ll give him a call. Where do you use your boat in Nashville. I’m in KY.

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I am interested in building a drift boat.  If anybody has any information or experiences with drift boat kits I would appreciate any input.

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be careful. i had a drift boat, and i sold it.  it was very hard to do.  i actually cried as it left the driveway and turned the corner into someone else’s flyfishing reality. the problem was..the driftboat haunted me.  i would be leaving for work and it would be in the driveway saying "tim..how can you go off to work and leave me all alone in the driveway…". or, i’d be heading off on a wading adventure or with the belly boat and it would cry…"tim…how could you ?". and then, of course i’d feel guilty and this in turn would lead to a fishless day (happened a lot, actually). approach this driftboat thing with care my friend… Tim Walker

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Strongly suggest that anyone thinking about building a drift boat contact the Wooden Boat Shop in Seattle, and purchase a set of Tracy O’brien’s plans.  This plan set tells how to build a stitch and glue hull, which has no frames to trip over or take up space, is far stronger, and has fiberglass/epoxy chines, which is where the damage gets done.  I have built both a Don Hill (which is a lovely boat, BTW) and an O’Brien, and the O’brien is much sweeter.   Stitch and glue is a technique where you sew the plywood panels together with iron wire, brace the panels into shape, and then treat the seams with first a fillet of epoxy soaked sawdust and then epoxy soaked fiberglass tape.  This creates an extremely strong hull, and uses no ribs.  This gives you an open floor, which means nothing to trip over, and no floorboards to catch your fly line.  BIG advantage. You can buy a finished boat of this style by contacting Creekside Outfitters in Issaquah, WA.  They have somebody selling the hulls for about $1700.  Better to build yourself and have the pleasure.  Also, much as in rod building, by doing it yourself, you can use neat woods and get the extra cosmetic pleasure for minimal costs. Take care with the woods that you use.  Suggest that you get Hoadley’s book on hardwoods and use that to drive your materials selection

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: be careful. : the problem was..the driftboat haunted me.  i would be leaving for : work and it would be in the driveway saying "tim..how can you go : off to work and leave me all alone in the driveway…". I guess Tim hears a lot of voices.  I think we are the ones who should be careful. Ignore the voices, Tim.  They are only in your head.  Really. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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: Strongly suggest that anyone thinking about building a drift boat contact : the Wooden Boat Shop in Seattle, and purchase a set of Tracy O’brien’s : plans.  This plan set tells how to build a stitch and glue hull, which : has no frames to trip over or take up space, is far stronger, and has : fiberglass/epoxy chines, which is where the damage gets done.  I have : built both a Don Hill (which is a lovely boat, BTW) and an O’Brien, and : the O’brien is much sweeter.   Andrew, just how difficult are the techniques and effort required to do a good job?  Special tools, techniques, etc…? Thanks. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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My fly fishing buddy just bought a new drift boat for fishing the Green River. Unfortunately we have not been able to find any information on how to navigate the river well.  We don’t have much trouble when rowing backwards but when the boat is turned around to go through the rapids it is difficult to steer. We haven’t been able to find books, instruction, or anything else to make this any easier.  Has anyone had experience doing this?  Can you suggest any publications to assist us. Thanks! Jeff Dinsdale

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Call 1-800-541-9498 (Frank Amato Publications) Ask for "Floating Whitewater Rivers". This book should get you on the right track.

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I have a rule which has served me well. Never go down a river unless:     a) you have gone down it with someone who knows the river         and     b) you specifically intended to learn the river from that person. Rule number 2:  Always put the plug in before launching. Have fun!

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