Question:

Sounds like a FANTASTIC day on the water,  great report jh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen. I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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(snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet

(snip)     that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno writes: (snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet (snip)    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

Save a day next may.  You can sleep in the rv.  I’ll let you use my 8 weight *with* the fighting butt.  I wanna see your scrawny ass runnin down the middle of this water.  <G Louie

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   that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Charles writes:    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter

He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it.  <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

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Peter He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it. <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

That small eh?  In that case, I would think a 0 weight would be more appropriate.  If he came, we’d probably need a bosun’s chair just to lower him out of the boat.  BTW, think he can even lift an 8 wt.?  If he ever hooked a salmon, he’d probably throw the rod overboard from sheer fright.    (how am I doin’?) Peter

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It’s late, I’m beat, the pirate is whacked – this TR is gonna be short. Up at 4:30 and, on the road at 5:15, arrived at the store at 6:00, on the water by 8:00 and home by 9:00pm.   Louie before the trip, "I’m gonna take my 6 wt."   Told the Pirate not to bother with his vest or the 6 wt.   Well, we’re at the put-in and John Valk (owner/guide) is going "Nyet" to the 6 wt.  Out comes the 8 wt.  Now I’m looking at Louie and the fighting butt on the 8 wt. is missing, "I took it off." he says.  Silly boy.  By the end of the day, there’s no vest, the 6 wt. never left its tube and he has a hole in his sternum where he had stuck the reel seat on repeated occasions. Best shot of the day – watching Louie’s face as his backing rapidly disappears.  Second best shot of the day, seeing Louie running 100 yds downstream trying to retrieve his backing – after vaulting out of the drift boat. Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Details at 6:00. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ? Remove "XX" from address

We saw a few but the real run hasn’t gone going yet.  We need colder temps and a *lot* more water. As John fussed with the boat and stuff, there were a bunch of salmon playing in the shallows.  I had a poke at them with the big stick but no joy.  With that experience, I put it away and took out a single hander. Dave got out a rarely used Orvis 8 wt. with a big sinktip that proved to be a difficult line to use in the low water conditions. Dave, by his own admission, was unsure what this fishing would be about and when we found a pod of about 20 salmon cavorting about, he had two silver dollars for eyeballs.   John has a particular way of doing a wet fly swing (he likes the fly oriented north-south – I tend to a broadside presentation) but we both used John’s technique.  We swim the fly in front of the pod and hope that a big, pissed-off male will charge out and nail it.  Frequently, we were not disappointed and Dave got a very lively fish out of this pod within a couple of minutes. Dave hooked up first (a fish probably in the low teens) which promptly peeled off all of his line and a good quantity of backing.  It was a great intro to Saugeen salmon fishing.  He eventually ended up about 100 yards downstream where the fish was netted. A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. The Saugeen was especially low and clear so the fish were always very obvious.  We drifted over a few steelhead, loads of huge smallies, some browns, red horse suckers, carp, and a few unidentified.  The colours were especially bright in the high sun, and with the warm day, it was a very pleasant trip all-round. Final results were something like four fish each landed and multiple hookups (including one double).  Most of the fish were in the teens but one of mine was over 20 lbs.  We saw and hooked a few bruisers that ran over 30.  All of them took off in long runs.  Some of the fish were quite aerobatic with jumps, lunges and tumbles that often resulted in them being wrapped up in line.  One of mine began to fight funny after a few minutes. On initial hookup, the fish stuck his head out of the water with an open mouthed head shake that told of a fair hook.  By the time we got him landed, the fly was still in his mouth but he had about five winds of line around one fin.  Dave had one where the fly started off in it’s mouth and ended up in it’s tail.  We figured it too got wrapped up in line and then the fly came loose only to reattach. I’ll have a trip on my site by next week with pics that will give some indication of the river and the fish.   It was fun as always having the Pirate up and Thanksgiving dinner will long be remembered for the gales of laughter and the sore sides we had in the morning. Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Don’t wait too long. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o)

At the Salmon River, Saugeen next week. Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile.

probably brighter than those bright blue Audi headlights. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.  

It was a memorable day fer sure.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold. If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G

You mean, like again! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes:

<great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks?

Nope, we were hoping for steelhead but the conditions were too warm and the water too low.  We saw lots of smallies but with the low, clear water, we saw them when we spooked them.   Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

I used the term ‘natural’ to mean naturally reproducing.  While these chinook exhibit superior characteristics as compared to their stocked cousins, I haven’t seem the same difference between natural and stocked browns on the Grand.  That may have something to do with how the Grand stocking program is managed. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I thought that Ontario had stopped stocking chinook altogether, but I guess not, eh ?   The strain of chinook used for stocking is one that does not move in until quite late.  I’ve read that what has happened in some cases where natural reproduction has been established is that over generations the salmon have tended to come into rivers earlier and earlier prior to spawning.  It sounds like the Saugeen is one of them.

I’ve always understood that Credit River chinook were stocked as the prospects for natural reproduction were poor.  John confirmed that they were stockers. I’ve not heard about earlier runs but with the Saugeen being farther north, an earlier run is to be expected.  There’s no question that they are much healthier fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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      Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one   piece (including the anglers).       Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ?     Remove "XX" from address       A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked   and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and   live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this   results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright   and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up   stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a   high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s   usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often   roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told   us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and   it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks? Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

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Question:

The big question is, Why use mono on pike?

        For one thing, a level mono leader is about as simple as you can get. Also, mono is somewhat less visible than wire, which may be advantageous under *some* conditions (though pike, as a rule, aren’t exactly leader shy). Some proponents of mono say that it allows the fly better action in the water than wire.  Mono also doesn’t kink like wire can.  Big pike can thrash and roll enough to render wire a kinked, weakened mess in short order.         On the other hand, wire has its advantages.  100% bite-proof, and cuts through weeds better than mono.  Short wire shockers can aleviate the kinking issue to a degree.         Each leader system has its merits, and the fishing situation is going to dictate which system is better at that time.  I’ve got nothing against wire, and am *not* wed to level hard mono leaders either.  I’ll rig up with whichever type of leader system I feel I need for the water, the size of fish expected, etc. P.S.  I can see that if all your fish are 12-20 inches long, 20# mono is probably a 90% reliable connection.  Why settle for 90% when 100% is easy?  Why just expect to loose that occasional big fish?

        Reynolds and Berryman in "Pike on the Fly" state that 25# *hard* mono level leaders served them in Canada to the tune of 400+ pike caught and released with ~4 bite-offs.  That would imply an overall failure rate of about 1%, and I rather suspect that out of 400+ Canadian fish there were more than a few bigger than 12-20" "hammer handles".         Yeah, the possibility exists to lose a big fish using a mono leader. Why would one use one then?  Perhaps the same reason one would rig up with a 7x or 8x tippet for trout — they won’t take on a more visible leader.  Are your odds of breaking off in that situation higher?  You bet! Gotta go with what works for the particular situation. Todd

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The big question is, Why use mono on pike?    For one thing, a level mono leader is about as simple as you can get. Also, mono is somewhat less visible than wire, which may be advantageous under *some* conditions (though pike, as a rule, aren’t exactly leader shy). Some proponents of mono say that it allows the fly better action in the water than wire.  Mono also doesn’t kink like wire can.  Big pike can thrash and roll enough to render wire a kinked, weakened mess in short order.

Solid wire doesn’t have any of the shortcomings except possibly visibility.  Do you have any experience with fish refusing a more visible leader and then taking the less visible leader?  I’ve heard of this and seen it with other fish, but not with pike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    On the other hand, wire has its advantages.  100% bite-proof, and cuts through weeds better than mono.  Short wire shockers can aleviate the kinking issue to a degree.    Each leader system has its merits, and the fishing situation is going to dictate which system is better at that time.  I’ve got nothing against wire, and am *not* wed to level hard mono leaders either.  I’ll rig up with whichever type of leader system I feel I need for the water, the size of fish expected, etc. P.S.  I can see that if all your fish are 12-20 inches long, 20# mono is probably a 90% reliable connection.  Why settle for 90% when 100% is easy?  Why just expect to loose that occasional big fish?    Reynolds and Berryman in "Pike on the Fly" state that 25# *hard* mono level leaders served them in Canada to the tune of 400+ pike caught and released with ~4 bite-offs.  That would imply an overall failure rate of about 1%, and I rather suspect that out of 400+ Canadian fish there were more than a few bigger than 12-20" "hammer handles".

Surely they caught some big ones on the mono.  It was after reading their book that I tried 30# hard mason on Great Slave Lake.  I found the material was OK for 3 to 5 fish before I needed to retie.  I caught a 24 1/2 pounder on that leader, though the leader was only about 5# strength after we released the fish.  I also had a 5# fish bite me off clean on a fresh leader.  After about 4 bite offs on about 40 fish I went back to wire.    Yeah, the possibility exists to lose a big fish using a mono leader. Why would one use one then?  Perhaps the same reason one would rig up with a 7x or 8x tippet for trout — they won’t take on a more visible leader.  Are your odds of breaking off in that situation higher?  You bet! Gotta go with what works for the particular situation.

Again, there’s a lot of experience out there that relates to selective and leader shy trout.  Do you know of any such behavior in pike?  I think the book on selective pike is as short as the one on German humor. Thanks, Chas

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So, how many fish have you landed on a 20-30# mono leader without retying between fish?  How big is the typical pike in the waters you fish?  What sort of flies do you use (hook size, fly length?) I ask because I’ve had no success at all with mono leaders.  I hear lots of people claim that mono is fine, so I’m looking for the difference that makes mono work for others.  I must be missing a trick here somewhere. Thanks Chas

Must agree. I have never had any luck with mono leaders. Just a lot of bite offs. On the few occasions they have worked, it was necessary to replace them after every fish. No big deal, as mono is cheap enough, but a nuisance, and they are still unreliable. I use kevlar leaders. ( Unfortunately I have not been able to obtain any for a while, but I have a good supply). The "Kevsteel" leaders ( which is kevlar either braided with, or over, multi-strand wire) are available here; http://www.anglersupplyhouse.com/moser.html More info here; http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/verhaar/pike/tippets.php http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/68_fils_pour_bas_de_ligne/e68_… materials.htm http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/67_bas_de_ligne/e67_leaders.htm A couple of guys I know are using this; http://www.anglinguk.net/hostV4/Swiftys/Swiftys_Line_36.html And reckon it is good. TL MC

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I believe that you carry Bad Mono Karma around with you, Chas.  I had three bite-offs in one afternoon when I fished with you, and I reluctantly tied on some wire.  That’s about as many bite-offs as I have had in the previous five years. Kevin

Dad Mono Karma?  Seems to me the mono leaders go nuclear for me, maybe it’s MonoNuclearPisces or some such disease? Chas

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…snip… I use kevlar leaders. ( Unfortunately I have not been able to obtain any for a while, but I have a good supply). The "Kevsteel" leaders ( which is kevlar either braided with, or over, multi-strand wire) are available here; http://www.anglersupplyhouse.com/moser.html

These would have the same kinking problems that other multi-strand wire has. More info here; http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/verhaar/pike/tippets.php

A great article.  He says the kevlar leaders kink, I presume he’s talking abput the steel/kevlar, not pure kevlar.  I’m 100% with him about the single strand wire.  I do like the haywire twist better than his loop because the haywire loop won’t collapse under tension. http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/68_fils_pour_bas_de_ligne/e68_… materials.htm

Has kevlar/steel, but no poure kevlar. http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/67_bas_de_ligne/e67_leaders.htm

pretied tapered kevlar/steel leaders, no pure kevlar. A couple of guys I know are using this; http://www.anglinguk.net/hostV4/Swiftys/Swiftys_Line_36.html And reckon it is good.

This is a spectra fiber.  The second fish I had hit on one of these leaders demolished it before he came back down to the water.  That was 6 strands of 20# spectra braided together to make 120# strength.  He sawed through it about two inches above the fly.  I retired the rest of the leaders I’d braided right then. Thanks Mike, Chas

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<SNIP A couple of guys I know are using this; http://www.anglinguk.net/hostV4/Swiftys/Swiftys_Line_36.html And reckon it is good. This is a spectra fiber.  The second fish I had hit on one of these leaders demolished it before he came back down to the water.  That was 6 strands of 20# spectra braided together to make 120# strength.  He sawed through it about two inches above the fly.  I retired the rest of the leaders I’d braided right then.

I have not yet tried it. I still have plenty of the kevlar leaders. I am keeping an eye out for alternatives though, as they will not last forever. As I said, I use the pure Kevlar leaders I was given quite a while ago. They don

Question:

And of course Marinaro, Sawyer, Skues, Falkus, to name but a few.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot. TL MC

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Mike Connor: <<One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. I had forgotten about him.  When reading about Halford a few years ago, someone told me about Skues, and you are correct in all aspects. Dave

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot.

I’ve always been perplexed by attempts to identify the greatest "______" of the century, millennium, all time, etc.  In the first place, I don’t see the point. Secondly, how to choose from among all the obvious candidates given the arbitrary nature of the endeavor.  Third, and most important I believe, is the fact that we really don’t know who should even be considered as candidates.  For example, I suspect there is a very good chance that the greatest baseball player of the century is someone no one ever heard of who resided in The Dominican Republic or Cuba.  The greatest fly fisherman of the century might well be a Hungarian who never rose to public attention and who died in WWI.  The smartest person in the world is a Chinese peasant woman who never attended school; at least that is my bet for statistical reasons.  After all, I have NO other criteria by which to judge.  Even when we narrow the criteria by which we judge the "greatest whatever" to the point where the vast majority are automatically eliminated we virtually never get any great degree of consensus.  Even something as simple as "the greatest single season home run hitter in American professional baseball" is open to endless debate because the conditions under which the individual candidates played are so varied.

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Well, even though compiling a list of the Century’s greatest flyfishers strikes me as being almost as silly as a flyfishing tournament — turning something which is essentially non-competitive into some sort of game with winners and losers — I’d have to say that any such list would be incomplete without Bill Schaadt (sp?) and Roderick Haig-Brown (okay, he’s a gimme). So, I guess I just struck myself silly . – sid

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. TL MC

Criterion is the key.  Arguements can, at least somewhat, be narrowed with their application.  Could we not say Lee Wulff for bringing fly fishing to the masses?  Like a fine steak or hardwood, it matters how you cut in relation to the grain. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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<SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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It occurred to me that all such deliberations are more or less arbitrary in any case. In the case of some sportsmen it is possible to base a decision on how many games they won, how many runs or hits ( or whatever ) they achieved. In many other cases this is not so. You are probably right that the whole thing is pointless, but then so is a great deal of human discussion and endeavour, so what the hell ! TL MC

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I think that we can rank the people that have contributed most to our sport, but not the "greatest" fly fishermen.  Most of a person’s ability to contribute to the sport depend on a number of factors other than skill in fly fishing.  Some of these are: the ability to write and get published, fame in areas other than fly fishing, an engaging personality, and of course money. Many of the most famous fly fishermen are not especially good anglers but are good at other things that make them famous. As Sid said, ours is not a competitive sport that is judged by results and statistics. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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I nominate Don Bastian of Lycoming County, PA for his incredible tenacity on the water, his unparalled tying skills, his ability to take one look at a pool and to know it’s ways and feeding lanes intimately and for his legendary prowess as a nymph fisherman…  But mostly I nominate him because if he sees this, he will surely send me $20.00

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Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.<

Guess I forgot the <g.  I was inspired by Ted Williams. <g

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Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat!

I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model.< Me too. <g

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Response:

After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Bob, We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Why ?

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career". on-topic: I nominate Mark Cathey to the Century’s Greatest Flyfishers list. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments.

I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot.

IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy. — Ken Fortenberry

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We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you

compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish?

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I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball

into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person.< Wake up alone with a hard-on this morning?

Response:

Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat! I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

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IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame.

Ken, I’m no fan of Rose. Afterall, he did "sully" the game (and worse yet, ended Fosse’s career in a home plate collision in a All Star game) as did Mays (who was on stage) and Steinbrenner (felony conviction) and countless others who have misstepped at times. However, Rose’s onfield accomplishments speak loudly for the man. How can you ignore the greatest hitter the game has ever seen? Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Shame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy.

My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^) Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Hm…..Bill Clinton is famous….Herbert Hoover was famous….Dwight Eisenhower was famous….Jimmy Carter is famous…….

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… My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^)

I’m proud to have provided you good old boys with such mirth and merriment and I must admit, as fishing pranks go, that was without a doubt one of the finest. I should have known there’d be a price to pay for being a yankee in Avery county. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career".

I never liked Pete Rose.   I don’t know exactly why, but he always just irritated me.   Fortunately for me, I was an American League fan, so I saw very little of him.   Screw that "Charlie Hustle" bs.   That glorified crap ended the career of another good ballplayer (Fosse) in a meaningless exhibition game. Having put those cards on the table, I agree with Walt.   That NBC reporter was a Grade-A jerk, and Rose handled the ambush as well as a man could. They may have been good questions, but it was the wrong place and the wrong time.   A complete lack of respect for the game. Joe F.

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Question:

There are a lot of great trout streams in the UP. I fish the streams around Iron county as that is where I live, these include S. Branch of the Paint, Cook’s Run, and The Iron River. One of the highest rated streams is the Fox River but I have never fished it. I lived in the PNW for a year, the rivers here are alot smaller but also seem to hold alot more trout. You will find Brook, Brown and a few Rainbows. There are also some Steelhead runs in the streams that flow into lake Superior. Depending on where in the UP you plan on going you will find alot of fishing of many different types. Let me know if you need more info. I am thinking about heading the UP of Michigan in the next few weeks for a little camping/fishing.  I am an avid fly fisherman, but all of my experience is in the Pacific Northwest and the

Montana/Wyoming region.  In other words, I am completely unfamiliar with that area of the country in terms of fishing other than a lot of people have told me it’s a great place to go.  Can anyone recommend some rivers, streams, or lakes that are good bets for fly fishing? Thanks, Tom

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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I am thinking about heading the UP of Michigan in the next few weeks for a little camping/fishing.  I am an avid fly fisherman, but all of my experience is in the Pacific Northwest and the Montana/Wyoming region.  In other words, I am completely unfamiliar with that area of the country in terms of fishing other than a lot of people have told me it’s a great place to go.  Can anyone recommend some rivers, streams, or lakes that are good bets for fly fishing? Thanks, Tom

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Question:

Http://www.miralex.com Price:                  Miralex Cream, 4 oz $120.00 US

Good grief!  And I just bought a 3.5-ounce tub of coal tar for US$10.77! – Dave W.

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For $120.00 per 4 oz this stuff better come with company stock too

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Not to mention my personal aide to apply it too LOLLOLOL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For $120.00 per 4 oz this stuff better come with company stock too

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David, David,   did someone do something terrible to you once.  Very negative.

I’m only negative about unproven therapies which have advertising that is purposefully vague about the active ingredients.  The term ’snake oil’ comes to mind. But, maybe you have some points there.  Are you sure it looks like poison ivy?

No, but that’s why I prefaced my remark with "I’m no botanist." And hemlock might not be bad, after all the poison in a bee sting is supposed to help "cure" arthritis.

Is it arthritis now?  Last I heard of bee sting therapy it was for MS.  And shortly after going to an MS bee sting fundraiser, I read that a controlled study had been done which said the stings didn’t do a thing except send some people into shock.  Maybe someone. okay maybe me should ask the miralex people what is in the stuff using the allergy thing a reason for asking. good idea David.  I’ll let you know what happens.

You shouldn’t need a reason.  If they’re at all ethical, they’ll tell you.  Don’t you have containers of the stuff? Aren’t the ingredients right on the labels?!?! – Dave W.

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I went to the website for this product,and let me tell you it AINT CHEAP,but then again,compared to some meds we’ve tried I suppose its Ok If yoy want to know more about it go here Http://www.miralex.com Heres the ingred:Doesnt really say,just says Plant substances Price:                  Miralex Cream, 4 oz $120.00 US                  Miralex Cream, 1/2 oz $29.99 US                  Miralex Shampoo, 4 oz $9.95 US                                                               * – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff. Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

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… The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238.   What do you think?  Let me know.

I’m no botanist, but why was my first reaction to the plant pictured on the web site’s home page "hey, that’s poison ivy!"? Anyway, since you actually have some of this stuff, what is listed on the containers as ingredients?  I couldn’t find anything but the vague "natural plant substance" remarks on the web site.  People have allergies and other conditions that preclude them from using certain substances, and should be able to find out prior to losing money to "shipping and handling charges" that aren’t covered in money-back guarantees. Not only that, but everything in hemlock is a "natural plant substance," but you won’t find me using it to clear my psoriasis. And Miralex has got to have the *worst* testimonials section I’ve ever seen.  They don’t even try to make them sound more real and personal by putting initials and towns afterwards (for example, "This is great!" – S.D. from Walla Walla, WA), not that doing so makes testimonials any more valid of a "proof" that the stuff works.  And this one in particular sounds like they took their own marketing slogans and put them inside double-quotes:  ["The positive effects of Miralex were visible within 48 hours of the initial use. 90% of all lesions had disappeared within 7 days with only one recurrence from that group. Its lack of smell and color makes it less embarrassing to use." Thank you !!!]  I find it interesting the ‘thank you’ part didn’t make it inside the quotes, too. – Dave W.

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The cream costs 29.95 US$  for a 1/2 oz jar and 120 US$ (i think) for a 4 oz jar.  The pamphlet is at home and I am leaving work to go to a fly fishing meeting, so thought I would message you now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff. Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

Response:

David, David,   did someone do something terrible to you once.  Very negative.  But, maybe you have some points there.  Are you sure it looks like poison ivy?  And hemlock might not be bad, after all the poison in a bee sting is supposed to help "cure" arthritis.   Maybe someone. okay maybe me should ask the miralex people what is in the stuff using the allergy thing a reason for asking. good idea David.  I’ll let you know what happens. Remember, "positive waves man, positive waves."  see ya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238. What do you think?  Let me know. pictured on the web site’s home page "hey, that’s poison ivy!"? listed on the containers as ingredients?  I couldn’t find

"natural plant substance" remarks on  People have allergies and other conditions that preclude them from using certain substances,

 but everything in hemlock is a "natural plant substance," but you won’t find me using it to clear my psoriasis.

Dave W.

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I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff.  

Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

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I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff.  Well, I was visiting a doctor, not a derm (don’t go to them anymore) and he noticed my p.  He said his brother in law had p and used this miralex cream and it cleared it up. Said he had a sample somewhere but could not find it.  He gave me some literature on it and said he would look for the sample. That it when I posted you.  About a week later he called and said he had found the sample.  I picked it up and started using it.  That was one week ago.  So far very good results.  Some of the smaller spots have disappeared. The largest area  extended from my ankle to my knee, completly encircled my leg.  It had several large scaly areas and the rest was red (as you all know) Well, after one week, no scales, no red. My leg has returned to white. Eureka!  The sample was a one ounce jar ( if you can call that small a sample a jar).  In the Vancouver Sun last week there was an add giving away free 1/2 ounce samples.  I immediately ordered one and had two friends order some for me also.  Naughty me!.  So, I how have 21/2 ounces of the stuff, except what I have used to date.  Also the patches on my elbows are gone. and the stubborn ones on my knuckles are going(three down and two to go)  The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238.   What do you think?  Let me know.  I will keep you posted (I’ll try for weekly) on how the treatment is going.  Can’t wait for summer. By the way, I have been reading about you guys that are emabarressed to go outside with your p.  That used to bother me to, it still does, but about 10 years ago, I said "the hell with it".  I wear shorts and t-shirts all summer, go to the beach in a bathing suit, and it fat guys like me can wear a bathing suit, then you should not be concerned about your P.  Anyway, get over the embarrassment and just do it.  The extra sunshine and fresh air can only help your P anyway. So Long for now and  Keep your stick on the ice. Bye

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing newsgroup: A guy went into the water in Elliott Bay as part of a [simulated rescue situation]. He was wearing a survival suit (the water *is* cold up here), and made the mistake of diving in head-first.  All the trapped air in the suit collected at the highest point once he was in the water, which was the feet.  He was not able to get himself rightside-up, and drowned before the boat could get back to him. I’ve never seen a survival suit except in pictures, but I understand it to be something like a dry suit with insulation and flotation built-in. I guess there *IS* a reason why I ritualisticly squeeze all the air out of my suit before each time I get into my boat.

Doesn’t sound like much of a problem for paddlers’ dry suits to me.  At least decked boaters are wearing a spray skirt which ought to be tight enough to keep air passing that quickly between upper body and legs. And everyone I’ve seen putting on dry suits burps as much air out as possible simply for the reason of making them more flexible.

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: Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing : newsgroup: I should have mentioned:  these survival suits (when I owned one) did not have neck gaskets; the only way I remember that air/water could get in our out was from around the neck.

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(KCKaddis) writes: sounds like an urban legend to me … you’d think that a suit designed to save

your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos Actually, this is a common problem with dry suits. SCUBA divers often wear additional weight on their ankles to prevent a feet up uncontrolled ascent. … by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders…

the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; ) More likely, it is a case of pulling your chest up toward your feet. Still, a dry suit has air stored up to the neck with a gasket that is intended to be leakproof. This is a whole lot different than a pair of waders which allow air to freely flow in/out. SCUBA suits have valves to allow air to escape at roughly chest level, but survival suits or the dry suits used when paddling do not. This should not be a life threatening situation with proper training, but few know of this risk and even fewer practice how to escape from this situation (the logical escape procedure would involve raising the body toward the surface in as flat a plane as possible, thus allowing the  the air to redistribute evenly in the suit – not having the opportunity to practice this, I’d imagine strong swimming/sculling skills and good breath control would come in handy). Whether or not this particular even is an urban legend is moot. There is a potential when wearing a dry suit for the air to redistribute in this fashion as the suit does nothing to prohibit the motion of air. Thus, bleeding the things before entering the water is important. Rick

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Actually, [air trapped in legs, floating you head down] is a common problem with dry suits. SCUBA divers often wear additional weight on their ankles to prevent a feet up uncontrolled ascent. This should not be a life threatening situation with proper training, but few know of this risk and even fewer practice how to escape from this situation (the logical escape procedure would involve raising the body toward the surface in as flat a plane as possible, thus allowing the  the air to redistribute evenly in the suit – not having the opportunity to practice this, I’d imagine strong swimming/sculling skills and good breath control would come in handy).

I’ll be helping to run a pool session this winter, and I plan to try it.  My dry suit has ankle gaskets, so the easiest escape for me probably will be to reach for my ankles and burp them.  Who knows, maybe the pressure inside the suit will be enough for it to happen without my help.  If that’s the case, then I’ll try to borrow a suit that has booties built in, or I’ll try taping my ankle seals to make them tighter.

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KCKaddis writes :: << sounds like an urban legend to me I remember when dry suits first appeared in the UK (early 70’s) – they were made out of latex rubber and actually worked pretty well while they lasted (which wasn’t long). They had a roll waist attachment and glued on booties. I would wear mine snorkeling and if I didn’t burp the suit my flippers would pop off my feet whenever I dove (my feet would turn into balloons). I don’t remember any problems getting stuck upside down though. The clear latex suits (mine was pink) were the worst looking things in the world – looked like they should have come out of a giant dispensing machine in the public toilets<g Mick Evans

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        I did run across one survival rescue suit in a catalog a coupla years ago that had rings embedded in the legs so that they wouldn’t expand if air rushed there in an upside down position.  Blurb suggested that indeed it had been a problem.   KCKaddis wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … you’d think that a suit designed to save your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos… by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders… the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; )

Response:

: Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing : newsgroup: … I owned one of these, though never tried it out in the water, when I fished in Bristol Bay.  I no longer remember the details about them except that the suits are like toddler’s pajamas, and are bulky and awkward to get in and out of.   I find the story to be quite credible.

Response:

Sportsmansguide actually has some surplus survival suits   for $200. They have huge airbladder on the back, apparently to prevent this sort of mishap. I once read of a similar fatal accident involving a fat woman with an inner tube around her waist.

Response:

sounds like an urban legend to me … you’d think that a suit designed to save your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos… by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders… the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; )

Response:

Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing newsgroup: A guy went into the water in Elliott Bay as part of a [simulated rescue situation]. He was wearing a survival suit (the water *is* cold up here), and made the mistake of diving in head-first.  All the trapped air in the suit collected at the highest point once he was in the water, which was the feet.  He was not able to get himself rightside-up, and drowned before the boat could get back to him.

I’ve never seen a survival suit except in pictures, but I understand it to be something like a dry suit with insulation and flotation built-in. I guess there *IS* a reason why I ritualisticly squeeze all the air out of my suit before each time I get into my boat.

Response:

Question:

I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

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I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

Randy – I have absolutely no idea, but I am very interested in seeing any replies – hope you get some.  Public transportation to flyfishin – real dedication.  What about packing up a float tube to take to the lake?  Might be doable. mark Faulkner

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Don’t know about public tranportation( probably railroad to neareat town and then taxi) However, I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. If you can’t find the office(dept of water?) call urban Anler , Capitol tackle oe or Orvis, someone wil have the info They may even know a way to get there with public transit. gerry

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I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. gerry

It is not true now. NYC watershed permits no longer require a photo and are good for five years.  As for public transportation to good fly fishing, it is definitely possible. I can think of two prime spots near train stations on Metro North’s Harlem line.

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I can think of the same places along the Metro North Hudson line. Better get Jim Capposella’s book, "Good Fishing Within 50 Miles of New York City" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

Response:

Kensico, like most of the Croton Watershed reservoirs, is not easily fishable from shore because of steep dropoffs. Also, belly boats and the like are forbidden. In fact, there are a number of restrictions, rules etc. for fishing this water because it’s owned by NYC. You will need a special watershed permit, as well. Having said that, why not consider the connecting streams? The West Branch of the Croton, the Amawalk and, especially, the East Branch of the Croton offer fine fishing easily accessible from Metro-North. The Croton TU chapter published a very fine guide to the area some years ago and some of the local shops still carry it.

Response:

If the Bedford Sportsman in Bedford, NY is still around , they may have those maps. gerry

Response:

Go talk to Edwin Valentin at the Urban Angler in NYC.  Though not so often now, in the past he used to take the Metro North train all the time up to the East Branch of the Croton.  He’d get let off in Brewster, then either hop a cab or walk to the stream.

Response:

Question:

I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different.   Thanks, Terry

Response:

I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.

        royal wulff, adams wulff (called a "thunderhead" in n.c.) and some dark bodied elk hair caddis.  all in size 12-16.  hare’s ear and squirrell tail nymphs, size 12.  that’s it.  now pretend you’re an otter hunting fish.  upstream, quietly and slowly.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different.   Thanks, Terry

– Hi Terry, Good luck with your adventure. For early spring dries you will need some: fly…                size Elk Hair Caddises    12-16 Blue-Wing Olives     16-18 Adams parachutes     12-16 March Brown          12-14 for nymphs: tellicos             12-14 bead head hares ear  12-14 pheasent tail        12-14 and for wets working downstream: wooly bugger         6-10 soft-hackled wets    12-14               you can use the soft-hackled wets as a dropper behind the other flies if you choose to. Also, the smaller the tippet you use the more success you will have with the dry flies. The fish should be actively feeding but they will scatter and hide at the smallest disturbance, including a leader splash. Be smooth and gentle with your presentation and you should do just fine. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different. Thanks, Terry — Hi Terry, Good luck with your adventure. For early spring dries you will need some: fly…                size Elk Hair Caddises    12-16 Blue-Wing Olives     16-18 Adams parachutes     12-16 March Brown          12-14 for nymphs: tellicos             12-14 bead head hares ear  12-14 pheasent tail        12-14 and for wets working downstream: wooly bugger         6-10 soft-hackled wets    12-14 you can use the soft-hackled wets as a dropper behind the other flies if you choose to. Also, the smaller the tippet you use the more success you will have with the dry flies. The fish should be actively feeding but they will scatter and hide at the smallest disturbance, including a leader splash. Be smooth and gentle with your presentation and you should do just fine. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

    Hi Walter        I saw by one of the other sites that the non-resident NC license went to $30.00, TRUE ?                                                        John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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   Hi Walter       I saw by one of the other sites that the non-resident NC license went to $30.00, TRUE ?                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

Hi John, I’m not sure what a day/3 day/or week license costs but a non-resident year license costs $40.00. –Walt — The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Brian, I have caught many suckers fishing for trout, almost always on nymphs.                                 Mark Faulkner

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Check the July/August issue of American Angler magazine for some tips on fly fishing for suckers. John Likakis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

much real help.  I have caught suckers a number of times (fair hooked) and on one occasion in the Kakisa River in the NWT, thought I had hooked up with a world record grayling. The fly was a Golden Stone but the kicker is that the water was quite turbid. Because suckers feed off the bottom it is unlikely in clear water with any velocity that you will have much chance. Small nymphs right on the bottom in rather slow moving water will fare better. Carp are another story altogether, they will take a moving fly.

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While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

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. . . And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little . . . Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer

Unlike carp, suckers appear to be exclusively bottom feeders.  Their underslung mouths do not encourage them to take anything not actually resting on the bottom: and their digestions probably absorb anything from algae to big insects e.g. stoneflies.  They seem especially fond of worms, which hints they may scent food. A northern species of sucker called the Northern Redhorse is a beautiful fish (red fins) that runs to 30 inches and could break most fly tippets. Because so unafraid of predators, they can be caught on big nymphs if you can manage a dead drift within one inch of the bottom.  Dead drift (no skidding sideways) is ultra difficult on tippets strong enough to land a big one. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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… snip stuff preliminary to trying to catch suckers … Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin

I am no expert, so have several grains of salt handy, but I believe that suckers determine what is food primarily by the smell of it, whereas bass and trout are sight hunters, determining what is food primarily by what it looks like (I think pike fall into this group as well).  Anyway, because a fly smells like a lump of feathers, fur, and steel, I would guess that you would have limited success with them.   Maybe if you smear that wet fly real well with extract of rotted fish… FWIW, etc. tq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Dear "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge": When I began fly fishing at the late old age of 24, I apprenticed under the tutelage of a fine old fly fishing gentleman who gave me the real inside skinny on fly fishing and fly selection. The only cast you will ever need is the roll cast and the only fly that will work in such a situation is a #4 Hair Wing Royal Coachman Streamer tied on a Mustad 9575. His reasoning: that the Limerick bend and exaggerated barb of that particular Mustad hook does a superior job of holding the bait. Bait: His enticement of choice was the lowly earth worm, but in your case I would heartlily recommend thin strips of calf’s liver which have aged several weeks or months until dark green (the back of the fridge is perfect for the aging process) and amazingly pungent. Tackle: I recommend a 8-9′, 6 wt., fiberglass, Garcia "Conolon" rod with a "sturdy" action. Line: 6-7 wt. level line. Terminal Tackle: 2-3′ of 0X leader material tied to the line with a double overhand knot. You will need weight to get it to the feeding depth (bottom), so about 1/4 oz. of split shot should do it (remember to use "non-lead" split shot-for the environment you know). Method: Using 6" forceps attach the liver to the aforementioned fly, impaling it twice over the point and barb, douse with a very generous squirt of "Easy Cheez" (my favorite is the "Swiss Flavor"). Simply "Chuck & Duck", quartering upstream, directly into the feeding lane. As the fly approaches the fish, should he not notice the fly (some suckers suffer from "Squirreling Disease" which affects their sight and smell), simply yank the rod 2-3′ upward in the "Field and Stream" position and drive the fly into it’s snout (this is referred to as the "induced take"). Landing the Fish: After a spectacular fight and amazing display of water acrobatics (hauling it in), I implore you to practice "catch and release" fishing, whereby you "release" the fish as far as you can into the woods (ALWAYS be sure to bring "flushable" baby wipes for removing the sucker’s protective slime from your hands and waders after a "catch and release"). This is the option of choice for the true sportsman. Unless of course there happen to be spectators nearby who have emmigrated from country whose vast culinary heritage has bestowed up them a deeper appreciation for such a delicacy. In these cases, I salute their superior senses of taste and smell and it is my practice to reward them with a gift of the fish. Cooking Methods (Once in a while ALL true sportsman will kill a fish to eat): Refer to Schweibert’s "Trout" as many good recipes. adaptable to the tasty sucker, therein can be found. This section of the book alone is makes the purchase of this fine work a justifiable expense. Other great fish cookbooks have been written by LaFontaine and Borger and can be found in better fly shops everywhere. Tight Lines!! Todd L. McCagg "Dry Fly… Schmy Fly!"

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Question:

I’ve got the good luck to have 4-days near Evergreen CO in early August and am looking for suggestions on streams to stalk, catch and release. Don’t mind walking in a bit and I don’t need big name water or 18" fish to have fun – although 18" fish are… Anything within a reasonable 2-hour drive?  Thanks and let me know how to reciprocate for Wisconsin, if I can.

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The local fly shop in Evergreen is the Blue Quill Angler.  Same folks that run the Orvis Colorado Fly Fishing school, Rick Rishell runs it and his number 800-235-9763.  They would give you a very good idea as to what is going on there.  Bear Creek right in town was aggressively cleaned up and improved by the local TU chapter.  Behind the Amoco gas station a few years ago I caught a 18" rainbow.  Clear Creek along I-70 is pretty good too at Georgetown, that’s just up the road a few miles.  Those are great after work areas.  The South Platte river at Deckers is close to for a serious session of lots of fish.  Stop in at the fly shop in Deckers (Motel, gas pump, cafe/bar and fly shop setup, it is the town) and get the info on the current flies.  You can go North to Hot Sulphur Springs and hit the Colorado, great time of year for the Colorado.  Evergreen is a great place to get to lots of the famous gold medal water but the little streams right around town are really fun.  LOTS of water this year. — Ken Rupkalvis, THE Republic of Texas

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got the good luck to have 4-days near Evergreen CO in early August and am looking for suggestions on streams to stalk, catch and release. Don’t mind walking in a bit and I don’t need big name water or 18" fish to have fun – although 18" fish are… Anything within a reasonable 2-hour drive?  Thanks and let me know how to reciprocate for Wisconsin, if I can.

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