Question:

Vern, You may want to check out a Loomis GL4.  I am told that it is has a very similar action to the top of the line GLX (my rod), but at half the price ($250?).  I just somehow broke the tip on mine (a 5wt), and after inspection Loomis supplied a new tip section absolutely free.  I love this rod–very light, fast, with plenty of backbone.   Good shopping (Christmas is fast approaching), Pat K

Response:

Surely driving over it the same side a few more times would have allowed him to shoot round corners?!! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cousin an I were jump shooting ducks in some ponds down by the ocean. After we left I noticed my cousin’s old single shot 12 gauge wasn’t in the jeep.  We went back and it lay in the sand with tire tracks over the barrel. The barrel had a slight bend in it so I told my cousin to drive the jeep over it again while held it with the bent side up.  It worked and he hunted with that old gun for several years after that. Ernie Harrison Want to make tapered leaders?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?"

Response:

If it were me, I would contact the manufacturer. I have found most rod companies to be very sympathetic to accidents, especially if you tell them the truth about how it was broken. Usually not on a fish. Good luck.

Response:

buddies. I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?"   Big Dale

Response:

<snipped Ugh, I remember doing that… Waaaaaay back when I got my first fly rod I tried to learn it all by my self and I had a Diawa Cherrywood Series rod. It was fairly light (About a 4-5 if I had to guess now) and I sure did not know how to use the thing. I ended up shutting the door on the tip and snapping it off. That was the end of that rod for me. Now I think I probably would try to re-tip it. That story also sends shudders through me as I am taking my five year old daughter out fishing once in a while and I will certainly keep that story in mind to make me more cautious! Hope it works out! Michael Era

Question:

<SNIPPED.  They are always very good and very quick reponses.  Do you sit at your computer all day just waiting for ROFF posts?:) Tim

No, but I do log in about twice daily usually, and at times when most posters elsewhere have long since gone to bed, so it may appear that my responses are pretty quick.  I sometimes spend quite a while doing other work on the computer, and log in even more often though. TL MC

Response:

[snip] So give em a brake or just keep on driving that jeep util you find a suitable wall..

Metaphorically speaking, of course… /daytripper ("I Brake For Newbies")

Response:

Lighten up, have a cool one and relax a bit.  It is not about gear or ego’s fellas. Mike

Thanks Mom…..errrr Mike….I almost forgot what it was "all about"….now as soon as I get done doin’ the dishes, startin another load of clothes and takin out the garbage.. if I have your permission, I’ll suck down that cold one before I kick another cat down the driveway….. Jeez….I’m sure glad we have our Jiminy Cricket around today!! Larry #:)#

Response:

Tim Look Tim, if you don’t ask your learning curve will be slower, so ask. However Grumpy some of us are, if the truth be known most here really like to share what we think we know. And newbies are the future of our sport so you are valued. As to diplomacy, or what some might prefer to think of as courtesy, well that itself is a matter of debate. I for one have a bad attitude toward what I consider pussy footing around, and a fairly sharp tongue. However, I think I can assure you though that even the most ragged and long standing feuds here wash away in the field and when it comes down to support for wise use of our country’s natural resources. If its any comfort there is also a long standing tradition for cussidness among the flyfishing fraternity. I offer Sparse Grey Hackle’s story "the Lotus Eaters" in his book "Fishless Days, Angling Nights" as exhibit 1, wherein he describes the Fly Fishers Club of Brooklyn, ensconced on the Beaverkill after their move from the the Brodhead’s in the last century. As exhibit 2 and 3  I offer the personality of our patron saint, Theodore Gordon himself, and Hewitt, fairly opinionated buggers I think you will agree. Having survived your initial dunking you’ve earned the right to ask anything you please and you will mostly get reasonable responses. Presumptuous, but I remain your humble servant, Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to agree with you mike. I am very much a "rookie" at this FF game and admittedly don’t post much because I don’t feel I know enough about this wonderful sport to be of help to anybody. I have asked some "newbie" questions and pretty much have received very polite and helpful replies (other than my initial post about an experience I had at a club that had fish feeders installed along the stream, which caused quite a backlash, well deserved though in retrospect). However, I have noticed a decided souring of tempers as of late. I lurk, mainly because I can and have gained many useful tidbits just from reading the posts, but also because I don’t want to be a bother to the regulars by asking a ton of "newbie" questions. After reading some of the recent posts I probably will be even more hesitant in the future. Tim

Response:

The current heat wave must be getting to people.  Of the two posts I read by newbies looking for advice, one guy got his head bit off by somebody on their soapbox about quality vs. price and the other question deteriorated into a thread taking personal jabs at each other and contradicting the previous post. This is not a way to encourage new people to stick around. Lighten up, have a cool one and relax a bit.  It is not about gear or ego’s fellas. Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The current heat wave must be getting to people.  Of the two posts I read by newbies looking for advice, one guy got his head bit off by somebody on their soapbox about quality vs. price and the other question deteriorated into a thread taking personal jabs at each other and contradicting the previous post. This is not a way to encourage new people to stick around. Lighten up, have a cool one and relax a bit.  It is not about gear or ego’s fellas. Mike

I have to agree with you mike. I am very much a "rookie" at this FF game and admittedly don’t post much because I don’t feel I know enough about this wonderful sport to be of help to anybody. I have asked some "newbie" questions and pretty much have received very polite and helpful replies (other than my initial post about an experience I had at a club that had fish feeders installed along the stream, which caused quite a backlash, well deserved though in retrospect). However, I have noticed a decided souring of tempers as of late. I lurk, mainly because I can and have gained many useful tidbits just from reading the posts, but also because I don’t want to be a bother to the regulars by asking a ton of "newbie" questions. After reading some of the recent posts I probably will be even more hesitant in the future. Tim

Response:

<SNIPPED However, I have noticed a decided souring of tempers as of late. I lurk, mainly because I can and have gained many useful tidbits just from reading the posts, but also because I don’t want to be a bother to the regulars by asking a ton of "newbie" questions. After reading some of the recent posts I probably will be even more hesitant in the future. Tim

Hi Tim, that is extremely unfortunate and was not my intention with my post. I just got a bit ratty at somebody insulting a lot of people for no good reason.  As you  know by now, and indeed mentioned in your post,  just about all questions are answered promptly and politely otherwise, by quite a few people. It would be a shame if we frightened people off, but by the same token, some things are unfortunately worded, and beg all sorts of cutting replies, which are then inevitably forthcoming. Glad to see you hung around anyway. TL MC

Response:

Oh yeah? Well fuck you! My rod is bigger than your rod and costs more, too. Tongue firmly in cheek… WESH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The current heat wave must be getting to people.  Of the two posts I read by newbies looking for advice, one guy got his head bit off by somebody on their soapbox about quality vs. price and the other question deteriorated into a thread taking personal jabs at each other and contradicting the previous post. This is not a way to encourage new people to stick around. Lighten up, have a cool one and relax a bit.  It is not about gear or ego’s fellas. Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have asked some "newbie" questions and pretty much have received very polite and helpful replies (other than my initial post about an experience I had at a club that had fish feeders installed along the stream, which caused quite a backlash, well deserved though in retrospect). However, I have noticed a decided souring of tempers as of late. I lurk, mainly because I can and have gained many useful tidbits just from reading the posts, but also because I don’t want to be a bother to the regulars by asking a ton of "newbie" questions. After reading some of the recent posts I probably will be even more hesitant in the future. Tim

Tim, I am a newbie to this NG so if the old timers are getting cranky you can ask me stuff.  I am not bothered by "newbie" questions and enjoy passing on what I know about fishin. Just don’t listen to anyone after I said my peace! Just jokin’.  There is a ton of resources here to use, don’t feel timid in asking questions.  If you still have questions that need to be answered and don’t want the backlash, feel free to email me.  I am available most of the time and will send you a reply just as soon as I can. Warren

Response:

No…not the heat…. (In the memory Sam Kinisson) "It’s not the heat, it’s the stupid fucking questions posted by stupid fucking newbies. What’s the best fucking floatant ? Who gives a flying fuck, how many kinds of fucking floatant are there ? Are these fucking idiots too fucking stupid just to go to the store and ask ‘em what the best fucking floatant is ? What’s next, what finger should I fucking use to put it on my fucking fly ? The heat ? The heat never wanted to make me drive my jeep into A FUCKING WALL". http://www.rodney.com/gallery/kinn.htm Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

<equivocating post snipped Um……come on Tim, why don’t you just tell us how you really feel?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Tim, that is extremely unfortunate and was not my intention with my post. I just got a bit ratty at somebody insulting a lot of people for no good reason.  As you  know by now, and indeed mentioned in your post,  just about all questions are answered promptly and politely otherwise, by quite a few people. It would be a shame if we frightened people off, but by the same token, some things are unfortunately worded, and beg all sorts of cutting replies, which are then inevitably forthcoming. Glad to see you hung around anyway. TL MC

Hi Mike: yea, I figure I’ll hang around…most of the posts by regulars are pretty comical, even if I don’t know what the hell they’re talking about with all the "inside jokes" around here. BTW, I do appreciate all of your helpful responses to my questions in the past.  They are always very good and very quick reponses.  Do you sit at your computer all day just waiting for ROFF posts?:) Tim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim Look Tim, if you don’t ask your learning curve will be slower, so ask. However Grumpy some of us are, if the truth be known most here really like to share what we think we know. And newbies are the future of our sport so you are valued. As to diplomacy, or what some might prefer to think of as courtesy, well that itself is a matter of debate. I for one have a bad attitude toward what I consider pussy footing around, and a fairly sharp tongue. However, I think I can assure you though that even the most ragged and long standing feuds here wash away in the field and when it comes down to support for wise use of our country’s natural resources. If its any comfort there is also a long standing tradition for cussidness among the flyfishing fraternity. I offer Sparse Grey Hackle’s story "the Lotus Eaters" in his book "Fishless Days, Angling Nights" as exhibit 1, wherein he describes the Fly Fishers Club of Brooklyn, ensconced on the Beaverkill after their move from the the Brodhead’s in the last century. As exhibit 2 and 3  I offer the personality of our patron saint, Theodore Gordon himself, and Hewitt, fairly opinionated buggers I think you will agree. Having survived your initial dunking you’ve earned the right to ask anything you please and you will mostly get reasonable responses. Presumptuous, but I remain your humble servant, Dave

Thanks Dave, I already feel better about this NG! Now could you please tell me: What is the best floatant?  <Just Kidding Tim

Response:

It ain’t the heat — natural cussedness. Of course, heat and violent weather do tend to put the trout down, yielding more frustration. Watch it, or I’ll discorse on "Global Warming" again…. r.m.bies

Response:

<equivocating post snipped Um……come on Tim, why don’t you just tell us how you really feel?

How can you possibly complain about such a linguistically sophisticated post ? TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim, I am a newbie to this NG so if the old timers are getting cranky you can ask me stuff.  I am not bothered by "newbie" questions and enjoy passing on what I know about fishin. Just don’t listen to anyone after I said my peace! Just jokin’.  There is a ton of resources here to use, don’t feel timid in asking questions.  If you still have questions that need to be answered and don’t want the backlash, feel free to email me.  I am available most of the time and will send you a reply just as soon as I can. Warren

Thanks for the generous offer Warren! Tim

Response:

Oh, I suppose you have never had a stupid question.  I guess you were born knowing exactly what is the best floatant.  You know some people don’t have a flyfishing shop right next door and asking here is a great way for people to learn.  So give em a brake or just keep on driving that jeep util you find a suitable wall..

Response:

Question:

<<  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?   I think former President Jimmy Carter had something like that happen while fishing too far from Secret Service agents from providing details. William Buchman

Response:

"No good deed goes unpunished."

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

No Al, not Wayno, that’s the OTHER Wayne! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne

is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

doggone this grouse….let me go find my sm, memory is slippin…. –Wataugan Waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

 Winter is a lousy time for fishing here in New England. there’s something about that slight two-foot film of ice that inhibits the trout and salmon  rising to your exquisitely presented dry fly; perhaps that slight tap on the head as they slam into the solid wall of ice.  If it’s bad for fishing, though, it’s a great time for contemplating fishing trips of the past. One of my all time favorite days on the water ended without a single fish.  It was one of those perfect fall days when the air is dry and crystal clear, not the best weather for catching but perfect for fishing, if you know what I mean. I was supposed to be at work, but the day was too nice and the feeling of freedom I got from playing hooky from work just added to the enjoyment of the day.  About three miles from the dock I saw something swimming in the water. Stopping to check it out, I found a gray squirrel. He was almost a mile from land and the water was cold. the poor thing swam up to my boat and I could hear it’s claws scraping on the aluminum side as the near-frozen animal tried desperately to get out of the water.  Now I enjoy eating a fish now and then but otherwise consider myself a kindly soul so up picked up my landing net and hoisted the half-frozen rodent out of the water. When I laid it on the seat of my boat it was so cold it just layed there.  Being somewhat foolhardy as well as kindly, I took off my coat, an old Vietnam-era Army jacket, built a nest and placed the cold-cold squirrel inside.  I continued on to my favorite fishing hole and proceeded to cast for smallmouth bass. The sun was getting warmer and the squirrel in my coat would, once in a while let out a little sneeze but was otherwise silent.  After two or three hours of casting, I had totally forgotten about my guest, now comfortably asleep in my coat. I put my rod down and turned to start the motor.  As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.  Now I know I was at least 10 miles from the dock but when I returned a couple of the guys there swore they heard me scream.  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Joe Mitko writes:

(good story mostly snipped) As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.

Joe:  great story, but you missed out on some great tying material. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

The fishing inside the park was great when was there.  I saw two others fishing in a week. Lots of little Brookies. Crystal clear feeder brooks. Didn’t crawl way up into the high country so can’t say about that, and the only water of any size is paralleled by the main park road. Lots of easy access but you are kind of in a fish bowl as half of New Jersey drives by. But again the fishing was great.  Seem to remember some interesting water back in off the Cade’s Cove area. Don’t know why you would need a guide, just decent maps. The town itself and "Dollywood" could use a good cleaning out with a flame thrower. A real indictment of private sector greed and Babbitry. Or on the positive thinking side, it "offers many entertaining and shopping adventures" for the non-fishers in your party.  The park itself is magnificent. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up. Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

        there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

Response:

Question:

        Can anyone offer any suggestions of fly-in camping-fishing-hunting-etc. locations?  Looking for get-away weekend stuff for my son and I  to try.   NC, SC, VA areas most appealing, but any would be of interest. Gene

Response:

Ocracoke NC and Cherry Springs state park PA are two of our favorites. – Rod Farlee

Response:

Question:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am an M.D., but I doubt that the Rx that you request would carry much organization tha will arrange fly fishing trips that WILL satisfy all parties involved..It’s called CLASSIC SPORTS INTERNATIONAL at 1 800 375-5692…I’ve used them and they do what they claim. Moe Skeeter Hi All… I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing to cure my illness(es)…if you can make it believable and FAX it to me on your letterhead, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks ! — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Best wishes. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type:

Response:

        I am an M.D., but I doubt that the Rx that you request would carry much weight with your spouse, boss or IRS….HOWEVER there is a small organization called CLASSIC SPORTS INTERNATIONAL at 1-800-375-5692 that can help you. I’ve tried them and they really do what they promise. Best wishes.

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii    I am an M.D., but I doubt that the Rx that you request would carry much weight with your spouse, boss or IRS….HOWEVER there is a small organization called CLASSIC SPORTS INTERNATIONAL at 1-800-375-5692 that can help you. I’ve tried them and they really do what they promise. Best wishes.

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type:

Response:

What’s your fax number?

I wonder if I can have the flyshop bill the insurance company directly ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Hi All… I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing to cure my illness(es)…if you can make it believable and FAX it to me on your letterhead, I’d really appreciate it.

Actually, you need a psychiatrist for that.   John Fereira

Response:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing Actually, you need a psychiatrist for that.

You mean. . . proctologist. anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML<BODY

<BR<I</I <BR<I&gt;I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime</I <BR<I&gt;of flyfishing</I <BR <BRActually, you need a psychiatrist for that. </BLOCKQUOTE You mean. . . proctologist. <BR <BRanglerboy <BR&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR <BR– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. </BODY </HTML

Response:

Is this covered by an HMO ?

Response:

     I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime      of flyfishing      Actually, you need a psychiatrist for that. You mean. . . proctologist.

…yes, there is a fine line between the fish and the asshole on the bank… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

What’s your fax number?

Steve’s one doc who understands the gravity of this ailment.

Response:

I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing Actually, you need a psychiatrist for that. You mean. . . proctologist.

When they told me that my new flyrod came with it own handy carrying case, that’s not quite what I had in mind. You wouldn’t be able to tell whether I was coming or going. John Fereira

Response:

Hi All… I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing to cure my illness(es)…if you can make it believable and FAX it to me on your letterhead, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks ! — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

What’s your fax number?

Response:

Moe….Yeah…me too !!  I’d like mine to say that it’s specifically for "job stress".  All we need is an MD whose willing to cooperate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All… I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing to cure my illness(es)…if you can make it believable and FAX it to me on your letterhead, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks ! — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I am in need of a physician willing to prescribe a lifetime of flyfishing to cure my illness(es)…if you can make it believable and FAX it to me on your letterhead, I’d really appreciate it.

…Go to your favorite stream; Catch and eat 2 Brookies, then call me in the morning…..No wait! Tommorow’s Saturday..I’ll be playing Golf…. Dr. K

Response:

I am an M.D., but I doubt that the Rx that you request would carry much organization tha will arrange fly fishing trips that WILL satisfy all parties involved..It’s called CLASSIC SPORTS INTERNATIONAL at 1 800 375-5692…I’ve used them and they do what they claim. Best wishes.

Response:

Question:

Sounds like fun!  Where do I order supplies? Thanks!

Response:

Good idea Judy— I "haunt" office supplies places like Staples and Office Depot to look for clear or transluscent envelopes which are probably similar to what you are describing. Makes it so easy to find what you are working on and looks very neat stored. Since I bought my see through vinyl bag, I want to buy more! It looks so neat storing my current project and because I never work on one thing at a time—I can use a few more clear vinyl bags to store other ongoing projects as well as stash I need right away. I shall be looking at the July summer sales so I can buy more clear vinyl tote bags! I’ve noticed clear vinyl zipper cosmetic bags in different sizes too but the ones I wanted to buy had shampoos and lotions in them I didn’t want—does anyone know a source to buy these bags…empty? — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design I only like WORK when it’s attached to a NEEDLE…. http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday].

Response:

Hi Judy I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer and new to AOL.  I have been on Compuserve.  I am thinking of cancelling Compuserve. EdithNYC  

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

You are soooo right about the fishing department.  I got a great little box that fits in my tote bag at KMart’s department – 2 sides with compartments – now holding my sissors, needles (in small wooden cases), pen, pencil….. the modern "chatalaine"!  I also got a set of small cases that screw together for a better price than the craft "megastore" nearby.  Also, if you or DH or someone else fly fishes and ties flys – my DH is always eying my stash – he loves the many different fibers – especially some of the flashy ones.  Now, I always go along when he wants fishing stuff and he likes to come along when I go to the XS or needlepoint store… Kandy June

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store.

        SNIP  I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

Okay, Chris, the case I bought is called a Spinner Wrap, brand name TackleLogic, manufactured by AmSport. There are also two larger wrap cases with different names, but the same basic design. I found mine at Oshman’s here in Houston. June

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday]. Judy  

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In that case, how ’bout the new bags by Ziploc?  I’m talking about the plastic bags sold specifically for veggie storage.  They’re riddled w/ holes, to allow the veggies to breathe. pj I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k.

… — WCU Computer Center          | Western Carolina University  |  "Now, if I had a brain and it wasn’t Cullowhee, N.C. 28723        |   in my head, where would I keep it?" 704-227-7282                 |                          -Ryan Steele

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I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer

Edith: What is a short time and what is a long time?   I use Ziploc bags for my works-in-progress.  I stitch my way through meetings and dropping a Ziploc into my tote is easy.   Also, the Ziplocs keep things separated in the basket at home.   I estimate a needlepoint (with wool) project is in progress for 6-8 months (depending on my enthusiasm and the number of meetings I have). Speaking of plastic, I keep all my Paternayan in Rubbermaid plastic storage boxes.  I have for about 10 years.  To my eye and nose the yarn is as fresh as it would be had it continued to live in the copier-paper boxes it had inhabited before.  (Rubbermaid is translucent, copier paper boxes aren’t, hence the change.)    Last year, temporarily, my sewing room was in the basement.   Neither yarn nor floss nor fabric (I am a quilter) suffered.    [Basement is finished and a dehumidifier runs all summer. -- I'm able to be up- stairs now and appreciate the sunlight.] Nann

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?   Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park If training has not made a horse more beautiful, nobler in carriage, more attentive in his behavior, revealing pleasure in his own accomplishment…then he has not truly been schooled in dressage.                                 -Col. Handler

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Hi Tara– Since you’re in MD — take a ride to Laurel and the big open shopping center on RT 1 — it’s a shop named Gallo a few doors from the Woolworths—this is the first time I went there–it’a place full of inexpensive clothing and accessories. There were some bigger clear vinly tote bags there too with a black quilted bottom and trim—leopard bottom and trim and gold vinyl trim one. Also other vinyl totes in see through bright colors. All the different sized bags were all priced at $10 Nice and fun way to tote around and show off the needlework you’re working on!!! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag? Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park

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 Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I  found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today!  A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the  plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on  top–and two long handles. TAnd are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?  Hmmmm????  ;)   Well I don’t know about any one elses bags but I made mine. I was looking for a specific piece of fabric in my stash when I ran across a piece I had stitched a while back and had put back into the box of fabrics when done pending money for framing. Well I set the piece aside on the sewing table to get the the fabric I needed and when I went to pick up the stitched dragon I noticed to my amazement that the fabric I had been working a quilt with matched the color of the dragon I went out and bought another yard of that fabric and used the dragon for the front of a "tote bag" to haul my stitching projects with  Made it about 20 inches tall and about 15 inches wide with long carry straps that would allow to go over the shoulder. Used some scraps of batting and muslin to line it with for strength and added a few pockets for things like pencils (for pattern marking) and scissors and extra needles.  No pattern used just sat at the table and played with the fabric and it came out great. Scroll frame fits in well with loads of room for a small tackle box (to hold floss bobbins and scissors and extra needles) as well as a clip board with the pattern which allows me to lean it up against something to see the pattern while I stitch. Roseanne Brown Please do not add my name to any mail list unless I ask for it. —  * QMPro 1.51 * Work is for people who don’t know how to stitch.

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This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri

: Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles. : I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and : threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to : be working on! : Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my : travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and : kept out of the sun. : — : Lula from Wooly Dreams Design : http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Hi Sherri– I posted a follow up post to Tara S on where I found my see through vinyl needlework tote bag. However, I see you are in PA so where I bought mine won’t be applicable to you. Some the best places to find different and useful odds and ends are those boutique stores one finds in many malls—-places like Claire’s Accessories. Very often you’ll find inexpensive neat little plastic cases and zippered bags that can be used for holding needlework accessories. Or go look in beach wear or accessory departments to find more see through bags in different materials. Like the almost transparent nylon mesh used for nice looking tote style bags too. I bought a black zippered tote bag of nylon mesh that I carry and show off my bigger pieces of working needlepoint—and that only cost $7. on sale! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri : Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles.

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For people in Canada,  Mountain Equipment Co-op (a wilderness outfitters type shop) sells bags like this.  They are see through. Since they are constructed for heavy duty work, they may be a little much for some.  If I remember correctly, they come in various sizes. Cheers, Nancy Lorraine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. June

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

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Question:

A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

Since 1990, two bodies have been found on the Roaring Fork, foul play invovled in both incidents. So, when I’m fishing for whities in one of the Fork’s deeeper holes and smell something rotting near the heap of driftwood at the back of the pool, I just call it an unfortunate beaver and head for the next hole. Mitch

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A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

damned, I wish you would stick to the important issues or point. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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Fereira) writes: attempted to gut and butcher her catch at streamside, a clear violation of urban fishing etiquette.  Let this be an example to all you potential poachers, jack-lighters and trespass fishermen in NYC.  There is zero tolerance for straying off the straight and narrow path here. It was yet another example of mutilation due to the result of C&R.

I’ve been told it’s bad form to gut and butcher prior to a release.             Jim

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Was she using a wet or a dry, and what pattern? Lolo Mt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

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A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

Response:

A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

The body was determined to be a female and so the angler was immediately arrested as she was not in possession of a valid doe permit and she attempted to gut and butcher her catch at streamside, a clear violation of urban fishing etiquette.  Let this be an example to all you potential poachers, jack-lighters and trespass fishermen in NYC.  There is zero tolerance for straying off the straight and narrow path here. Stan

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: A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post :                                     Harlem angler snags body :    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed : body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. : near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police : said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. : It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. *(sigh)*  It has become an almost regular thing here in Ohio for a fisherman to discover a body. :-O Jon Porter

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What kind of fly was she using? mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Monday, Sept. 30, 1996 article from The New York Post                                     Harlem angler snags body    A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River snagged a badly decomposed body last night.  The woman was fishing at the water’s edge at E. 135th St. near Metro-North railroad bridge in Manhattan at about 7:15 p.m.  Police said the body was so badly decomposed that its sex couldn’t be determined. It was taken to the medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. Tight Lines Bob Hill The body was determined to be a female and so the angler was immediately arrested as she was not in possession of a valid doe permit and she attempted to gut and butcher her catch at streamside, a clear violation of urban fishing etiquette.  Let this be an example to all you potential poachers, jack-lighters and trespass fishermen in NYC.  There is zero tolerance for straying off the straight and narrow path here.

It was yet another example of mutilation due to the result of C&R. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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   A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River…

Pshew…and I complain about fishing with the crowds on the pan… Perspective, man. TimW

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   A homeless woman fishing in the Harlem River …

God this image is haunting me. This woman is an angler, my friends.  Better than the lot of us lashed together.  Let’s get together and buy her a bus ticket to Ennis or something, Jesus. TimW

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: This woman is an angler, my friends.  Better than the lot of us : lashed together.  Let’s get together and buy her a bus ticket to : Ennis or something, Jesus. Vail.  I hear she can catch big ones right in the middle of town. — Rick "still punchin’" Fletcher T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help. breckwm

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I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help.

Be sure to check out some of the following locations: Idaho – St Joe River, Coeur d’Alene River Montana – Madison, Gallatin, Yellowstone River and Yellowstone Park Flies – Hoppers, Bead Head Nymphs, attractors, caddis Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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: Be sure to check out some of the following locations: : Idaho – St Joe River, Coeur d’Alene River Mr. Beatty is reminding you of the spots along the freeway.  You might want to keep looking at the map. : Flies – Hoppers, Bead Head Nymphs, attractors, caddis I agree. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Central Washington: try the Yakima River from above the Roza dam pool to Lake Easton. Water levels drop after Labor day as irrigation needs fall off. good floating in upper canyon, above Ellensburg and below Cle Elum. Cle Elum lodging-Timber Lodge (509) 674-5966;  good flyshop in E’burg on south Main (but I don’t remember name). Fishing is catch and release, barbless hooks.  I try to get in a day or three every Sept-Oct. Tight lines! John Dodge

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try the tributaruies of the skykomish along highway 2.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in the north-west at the end of august and beginning of september. where are the best fly fishing spots? i have a car and i am willing to drive around. thank you so much for your help. breckwm

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Question:

I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright

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I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright

 Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?

   I use netscape on the internet and I’ve noticed many articles are delayed a week or more (the posting date is usually included on the original post).   If you are responding to a post and want the original poster to see it in a timely manner, then you might consider mailing a copy to the poster.    I knew Tim W. gave it long before I read his post because I got everybodies response to it.  (Tim, you’re taking this group too seriously.) Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

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writes: I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help?

I use the same system to flash mail and newsgroups and sometimes the replies show up before the original post.  That’s usually no big deal as many of the replies copy the original part of the message.  This happens on all systems (I also have a netcom account) so don’t worry about it. You’re not doing anything wrong.                                         Welcome to the neighborhood,                                                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?   I use netscape on the internet and I’ve noticed many articles are delayed a week or more (the posting date is usually included on the original post).   If you are responding to a post and want the original poster to see it in a timely manner, then you might consider mailing a copy to the poster.

The newsreader that you use has nothing to do with the amount of propogation delay encountered on your system.  Actually, you’re talking about two different things here.  The propogation delay an article has from the time it is posted until the time it appears on your system is the result of the number of systems it has to pass through, the bandwidth of the networks they are on, and how each system is configured to pass on article onto the system it is feeding.  Some system will queue articles and send as a batch.  If any intermediate system between the posting host and the system on which you’re running your newsreader is experience problems (such as a disc space shortage) the propogation delay might be high. The other issue is related to expire times.  Each news site can be configure to "expire" articles after a certain time.  If a site has a disc space shortage that time might be real short (like 2 days).  If the article isn’t read from the time that it appears on your system until it’s expire time you won’t see it (except maybe as part of a response). I know this has nothing to do with fishing but I thought some might appreciate an explanation about how the articles you post and read make their way around the Internet. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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