Question:

I’m probably breaking some copywright law, but from the Lewiston ID Tribune but.. George Eugene (Billis) Gehrke, an avid fly fisherman, inventor and writer, passed away Sunday Dec. 8, 2002, at his Asotin home. He was 68. He was born July 28, 1934, in Toledo, Ohio. Graduating from Anthony Wayne High School in 1954, he was the first in his class to go directly into the Air Force Cadet Program. After his tour with the Air Force, he married the love of his life, Gladys Gray, Sept. 6, 1958, in Toledo. He often told others how lucky he was to have her in his life and how much he loved her. George owned a fly fishing company and manufactured its products since 1973. He is survived by his wife, Gladys, at the Asotin home; three sons, Robert of Panama City, Fla., Stuart of Trout Creek, Colo., and Gregory of Asotin; three daughters, Rosemary Tafoya of Asotin, Tracy Castaneda of Houston and Georgia Gehrke of Kapaa, Hawaii. He is also survived by a sister, Karol Ann of Archie, Mo.; brothers, Ernest Gehrke and John Billis of Ohio; uncle C.M. Kurczak of Baton Rouge, La.; several nieces and nephews; 11 grandchildren; and many, many friends. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Thursday at the family home at Asotin. Vassar-Rawls Funeral Home of Lewiston is in charge of arrangements.

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Thanks Wayne, for passing that along. Rest in Peace, George. bruce h

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Question:

All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right. Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Response:

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Because it had angular momentum. (Watch out for Wayno’s nausea spasm!) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way. Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective? Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

Yes that’s strange and doesn’t fit in with the initial rotating disc theory at all.  Do you think that Mars aquired them in later life?  If they are orbiting that fast then they are probably smaller than our moon.  Do they interfere with each other in a gravitational sense?  I assume that they are in ecliptic plane too, so if they are orbiting at different heights from the planet’s surface they will pass close to each other now and then.  Could they possibly be 2 halves (or parts) of a small moon that was hit by a passing asteroid?

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why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

    god is ambidextrious, i reckon. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun. Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

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Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Angular momentum. TL MC

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    god is ambidextrious, i reckon.

Nahh, assuming the existence of such a creature, devious at best. TL MC

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Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun.

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

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Do you think it will make the fish bite better?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~

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Slarty Bartfast made them that way, It’s all in the book.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does. My Psion 5MX has a program called Solun and predicts the positions  of the celestial bodies to an impressive display.  I find out that all planets (except pluto), the sun  & our moon form a plane called the "ecliptic".  I can understand why the moon orbits the earth keeping in between the gravitational pulls of the earth & sun  (I imagine that Jupiter’s moons do likewise), but I wonder why all of the other planets (except Pluto) do as well.  I know that the planets all orbit in the same direction (anticlockwise from my NH perspective), but why in the same plane?  I wonder about the directions all being the same being the key to the formation of the ecliptic plane.  Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Sigh . . . . . . . I just wanted to go fly fishing on my planet . . . now I learn my universe has issues . . . who would of thunk it?  (as you are aware from my post, certainly not me) Going to the Arkansas River in central Colorado next week to get involved in the infamous "Mother’s Day Caddis Hatch". We eat them saut

Question:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive.

Hey Mark, help me out here.  Why are you choosing the Bravo 3 outdrive for a twin engine application?  What advantage is there as compared to any of the less expensive alternatives? Who builds that engine?  It sounds like a great engine for that application. Regards, Tom Brown

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                        *** big snip *** Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/ You’re getting a really cool boat…I love its looks. — Harry Krause

Thanks Harry.  I’m not too sure about the looks.  I kinda like the looks of a boat with a well appointed fly bridge better.  However, the boat *should* be really functional and they *are* extremely stable fishing platforms and that means a lot more to me than looks.  (besides the fact that they are "hell-built" for stout!) Still having trouble deciding on colors and a name for her.  The wife and I have decided (with a little coaching from the builder) to paint the cabin the same grey as the pictures show and we are going to go with a black back deck.  I thought something lighter, but Andy says that the black deck is a lot easier to maintain.  I personally think that when the sun shines on it the back deck is going to get awful warm!  Whatever we decide … No White in the work area!!  Makes my tired old eyes hurt!  ;) -mArk-  (who finds naming a boat harder than naming kids!  ;))

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Andy will set them up with almost any type of power that you want.  The one he just finished building (basicly the same boat I’m getting) had twin Cummins with jet pumps type outdrives.  I don’t know if he has build one that is a true inboard yet, but he has been talking about it.  It’s just a matter of what the customer wants.  He’s *very* flexible. I looked at several different engines before I picked the merCruisers.  I had originally picked the Volvo 6cyl. diesel, but Andy told me that there had been quite a few warranty issues (new engines that needed work) and that Volvo had not been real good about honoring the warranty.  He said that having your new boat have to go in right away for engine work kind of soured the whole boat buying process and suggested that I go with the merCruiser for dependability sake. Andy worked out a deal with the merCruiser dealer to get the engines at the same price as those from Volvo.  They usually cost about $2000 an issue more. The Cummins engines are like $10k more.  Kinda outa my price range! -mArk-                          (not speaking for the company) Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/

You’re getting a really cool boat…I love its looks. — Harry Krause I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family. -GW Bush

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Wow-Cooool Cat ! What’s the power ? Do they offer inboards in a catamaran ? Doug Miller

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it. I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits. He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Response:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Hey Mark, help me out here.  Why are you choosing the Bravo 3 outdrive for a twin engine application?  What advantage is there as compared to any of the less expensive alternatives? Who builds that engine?  It sounds like a great engine for that application. Regards, Tom Brown

Hi Tom.  It’s another one of those hell-built-for-stout things that I’m so hung up on.  I want equiptment that won’t fail (or at least has less chance of failure) when I’m a hundred miles from shore.  There is also the fact that the twin props give you a little more umph.  Besides, Andy catagoricly refuses to use "cheap" stuff on his boats.  He only wants to use the best he can get in any given class.  The Bravo 3 is much stouter than any of the Alpha drives and actually has quite a few design improvements over the Bravo 1 & 2 outdrives. I believe Andy told me that the engine blocks actually come from Isuzu (sp?). All the bolt on stuff is Mercury specific.  I just hope these engines are as bullet proof (idiot proof??  ;)) as I’ve been led to believe.  I spent a lot of time researching both the merCruiser and the Volvo diesel offerings and they seemed pretty close.  Part of the decision was based on the builders recommondation (and I trust Andy a lot … known him for a lot of years!). -mArk-   (who beleives that down fishing time means lost revenue)

Response:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Andy will set them up with almost any type of power that you want.  The one he just finished building (basicly the same boat I’m getting) had twin Cummins with jet pumps type outdrives.  I don’t know if he has build one that is a true inboard yet, but he has been talking about it.  It’s just a matter of what the customer wants.  He’s *very* flexible. I looked at several different engines before I picked the merCruisers.  I had originally picked the Volvo 6cyl. diesel, but Andy told me that there had been quite a few warranty issues (new engines that needed work) and that Volvo had not been real good about honoring the warranty.  He said that having your new boat have to go in right away for engine work kind of soured the whole boat buying process and suggested that I go with the merCruiser for dependability sake. Andy worked out a deal with the merCruiser dealer to get the engines at the same price as those from Volvo.  They usually cost about $2000 an issue more. The Cummins engines are like $10k more.  Kinda outa my price range! -mArk-                          (not speaking for the company) Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow-Cooool Cat ! What’s the power ? Do they offer inboards in a catamaran ? Doug Miller Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it. I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits. He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk- Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause Naw … we’ve talked about this one a little before … it’s an aluminum Catamaran style hull with twin merCrusier 6cyl. diesels.  Pictures at: http://www.maxweldboats.com The picture on the first page is a 27′ version of what my boat is going to be.  You looked at this one once before and told me that you’d feel safe about going out to sea in a boat like that … -mArk-

You are correct. When you started discussing bulkheads and frame, I immediately thought of wood. — Harry Krause The students at Yale came from all different backgrounds and all parts of the country. Within months, I knew many of them. -GW Bush

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk- Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause

Naw … we’ve talked about this one a little before … it’s an aluminum Catamaran style hull with twin merCrusier 6cyl. diesels.  Pictures at: http://www.maxweldboats.com The picture on the first page is a 27′ version of what my boat is going to be.  You looked at this one once before and told me that you’d feel safe about going out to sea in a boat like that … -mArk-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause This case has had full analyzation and has been looked at a lot. I understand the emotionality of death penalty cases. Dubya Dense

Response:

Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

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Question:

  Michael, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          First off, where exacty are you presently residing.       Clagary as you know,is a booming-better than the 70’s.With one of the lowest unemployment numbers in the Nation.       The weather is finally warming up.The Bow River has been opened all year round and this weekend all of the smaller rivers and creeks around Southern Alberta open up for the season–Can wait!!       I’ve got all my gear ready and taking the Day off work to hit the Elbow at about 8am.The rivers arerunning a little high due to the spring run off but ha,that fishing. Take Care For Now. PAUL Before you buy.

Hi Paul, I am now living in South Jersey. I work in Philadelphia. I used to live in the NW of Calgary in Around the Country Hills Area. Before I came to South Jersey I only knew how to spin fish. I learned how to cast and fish in Atco Lake on Route 30. Just small blue gills and pumpkin seeds but it was a hoot! My first fly rod was a Diawa and it was an eight weight! If you can imagine chasing blue gill on an eight weight! Still it was a blast. As I became instantly infatuated with Fly Fishing I began researching it and that was when I stumbed onto r.o.f.f. last year. I was quite active posting but lifes "other" demands get in the way. I still fish like crazy but I haven’t been "speaking" in the ng too much. Just now I am starting to beak off again. I was watching fishing Canada last night and they were doing a segment on the old man river up by Crows Nest Pass. That looked FANTASTIC! Just like I remembered it. I used to fish a spot on the Bow that is by a golf course just out of town (south west I think) and we used to get some BIG rainbows out of there! Next time I visit I warned my wife that she would not be seeing a lot of me! I plan on calling on all of the people I have been corresponding with to get some time out with them and also to do some of my own exploring! I’d like to get over to Sam Livingston’s fish hatchery and work that stretch after the spill way! Also along a small bend close to south Costco! Thanks for the interest! — Michael Era

Question:

Hi Possibly head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil

Bad idea, mosquito city. go to the west coast orthe keys. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

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"The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

        um, well, of course, all such activities involved the same lady, of course, like when we go on family trips to the smokys and i have to call the office.         ken, will you give me a call tomorrow, please? wayno

Response:

Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

They also have a location in Titusville, FWIW, but I’ve never been there.  I suspect Rick and the guys there know pretty much the whole area, however. R PS  John, Was over on Cedar Key last week and things where decent over there, plus it’s still cool (-ish, better than Orlando area, anyway), the rates at the inns are low this time of year and the crowds are light – us and a flyfishing! Virginia couple in a big trailered Whaler at the hotel marina.  Even got some of the last Stone claws at Charlie’s in Crystal River – yeee-uuumm!!  Kinda sorry to be back in Texas and hot as hell….<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

Will be going to Boulder in May and June for some training.  Any suggestions for fly fishing in the area.  (Hopefully, I will be able to get away from the class room long enough to go fishing) Thanks, T. Bell

Response:

Lots of fishing around Boulder, however, May and June are generally runoff months and the local streams could be running mud. There are numerous small alpine lakes within a fairly short drive. Some you can drive to, the better ones require a hike. E-mail me before you arrive and I can get you some current info. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be going to Boulder in May and June for some training.  Any suggestions for fly fishing in the area.  (Hopefully, I will be able to get away from the class room long enough to go fishing) Thanks, T. Bell

Response:

Depending on runoff conditions, you could just walk over to Boulder Creek right in town. For famous tailwaters the South Platte, Blue and Frying Pan are only 2-3 hours driving from Boulder. If you are here at peak runoff (which will be short this year unless we get some more snow) try higher streams in and around Rocky Mountain National Park, about an hour away if you don’t drive the canyon roads like I do.  ;-) Feel free to drop me a note when you get closer to fishing time for more current conditions. In May and June spring runoff is perhaps the greatest factor in choosing a place to fish, and conditions can change from day to day. Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be going to Boulder in May and June for some training.  Any suggestions for fly fishing in the area.  (Hopefully, I will be able to get away from the class room long enough to go fishing) Thanks, T. Bell

Response:

Will be going to Boulder in May and June for some training.  Any suggestions for fly fishing in the area.  (Hopefully, I will be able to get away from the class room long enough to go fishing)

    South Boulder Creek, below Gross Reservoir.  Get a map – hike down the hill. You’ll be glad you did,  it’s worth finding. JE

Response:

Question:

I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Practical Fishing Knots II is the 2nd edition of Practical Fishing Knots. It’s an excellent book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated. Dave

Response:

No offense to Lefty and Mark, they are tops. However, their books on knots, while best sellers are sort of twisted. Just try tying a Bimini twist for the first time with one knee as stated in their instructions. You can get better basic info for the majority of knots for free by writing Ande Monofilament, 1310 53rd St. West Palm Beach, FL 33407…. Much better instructions. Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY (no connection to Ande) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

 Knots on the Web (Peter Suber) is a great site with eveything you could ever want to know about all kinds of knots.  It’s one of those pages that makes you say "WOW, I had no idea THIS many people were fascinated by KNOTS!"   From there, you can find specific pages that meet your needs and interests.  Try using your browser to search the page for the word "fish" if you don’t feel like scan the page manually for fishing-related knot pages.  There are several that are fly fishing-specific. In case your news reader doesn’t support html, the URL is: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm Hope it helps, Joe Bollinger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB: thanks for the new (to me ) idea… I had just posted my favorite way (fast  nail knot of a piece of mono, then blood knots) when I read this.  It looks  more like an ‘at home’ method, vs. on stream, I think, but has clear  advantages for ease of going through the guides.  I’m gonna do it on my next  connection. thanks, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Has anyone tried this method: A guy I know claims to do the same (melt w/acetone) and then pushes the outer part back. He then loops the inner part; ties it off with a nail knot, etc. Here is the part I’ve had no luck with: he then claims to push the outer part back over the knot and therefore this should make a pretty neat sleeve. He then coats it with Aquaseal. I can’t seem to push it over the knot!!!

Response:

I’m new to fly fishing. I’ve read the instructions on connecting the leader to the fly line using a nail knot or a Duncan loop(same as uni-knot right?). I had a knotless tapered leader with a 3X tippet. Connecting the stiff butt to the line was harder than I thought. I was able to do it but ended up with a kink in the connection. Is this okay? I’m still learning to cast so I’m not sure if it affects proper casting. I finally just connected 30lb mono, which was easier to work with, to the fly line and spliced the mono to the leader butt with 2 surgeon’s loops. Is this better than a kinked connection. TIA for any info.

Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB

Response:

Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot.

JB: thanks for the new (to me ) idea… I had just posted my favorite way (fast  nail knot of a piece of mono, then blood knots) when I read this.  It looks  more like an ‘at home’ method, vs. on stream, I think, but has clear  advantages for ease of going through the guides.  I’m gonna do it on my next  connection. thanks, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

I’ve been reading this thread since it started, trying to work up the courage to make an embarassing confession. After tying nail knots and loops for many years I’ve reverted to my origional method of tying a simple overhand knot in the end of my line,cinching it down tight, passing the end of the flyline through the loop in my leader and tying another overhand knot.

Jim; The nail-knot was one of the more enigmatic facets of flyfishing for several years: trout are midging?: no problem, hiting emergers and not duns?, not problem, nail-knot?: problem! Lefty showed me a simpler way to tie it without any kind of fancy tubes,and all the nail did was to help add support and to allow the line something *stiff* to wrap around. Borger, though, has, by far, the easiest method to tie nail-knots.  Try this with a rope kit first, though.  All he does is make an over-hand knot with loose wraps, and then twists the line as he tightens it.  The line spirals around itself and makes those great, perfect coils of a nail knot.  Also, he keeps the loops somewhat separated to allow fly line to pinch or squeeze-up through the loops and make a more integral connection. I know probably none of this has helped solve your problems, but maybe it gets you on the right track. Jason Beary.

Response:

Jason, I was hoping someone would come upon Lefty’s method of tying a nail knot….  aka "a fast nail knot’  see also his two books on knots..  I use a large paper  clip, kept in my leader wallet for this purpose.   and have more than once  helped a friend or other on stream in the middle of the water tie a nail knot  onto a fly line.   I prefer to use a piece of heavy mono, the blood knot the  leader to this…. but either will work.   And with heavy fish the nail knot  slides in and out of the tip top and guides without hang ups… at home to  enhance this feature add a bit of nail polish or head cement to round the  edges…. The use of "orvis" loops on the end is ok,  just not as completely satisfactory  as the nail knot system IMHO. There clearly are more than one solution to this… but if folks ever learned  the fast nail knot system, they might not want to do anything else. cheers, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing. I’ve read the instructions on connecting the leader to the fly line using a nail knot or a Duncan loop(same as uni-knot right?). I had a knotless tapered leader with a 3X tippet. Connecting the stiff butt to the line was harder than I thought. I was able to do it but ended up with a kink in the connection. Is this okay? I’m still learning to cast so I’m not sure if it affects proper casting. I finally just connected 30lb mono, which was easier to work with, to the fly line and spliced the mono to the leader butt with 2 surgeon’s loops. Is this better than a kinked connection. TIA for any info. Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB

You got that right JB, my Krazy Glue connection has held up now for 3 years on my 6 wt, tussled with some feisty smallmouth and looks as good as ever. I will add to the blood knot, the double surgeon’s loop knot  ’cause I can’t tie a blood knot in the smaller diameter tippets. Frank Church Hi Frank.  I didn’t know how that message would go over with the LL Bean crowd that seems to populate the group.  But, I’ve fished with the Krazy Glue method since my buddy in Florida told me about it three years ago.  He fishes sea trout and tarpon.  I’ve caught several 15 – 25 lb Atlantic salmon with it.   I always "put the wood" to fish, and the glue has never let go. JB

Response:

Quoting what I said …  As you do it over the years, other ideas will make more sense and you will switch, but in general it makes fair sense to trust your own judgment as to whether something is reasonable or not…. Jim Robinson wrote as follows: I’ve been reading this thread since it started, trying to work up the courage to make an embarassing confession. After tying nail knots and loops for many years I’ve reverted to my origional method of tying a simple overhand knot in the end of my line,cinching it down tight, passing the end of the flyline through the loop in my leader and tying another overhand knot. I guess I don’t have to tell you it’s not elegant but it’s held a couple of huge carp, a few nice bass and skads of decent pan fish without a failure….

Jim:         Nice to see that one’s words seem to have a certain validity. I am a devotee of the "using a slip-on loop out of braided stuff" on the end of my flyline, but what you do rings a bell because I got to securing the loop with a bit of flexible goopish cement. Well, one time it was really thick on there and I noticed my casts seemed to go out lots nicer. Figured it was the extra weight right there at the end

Question:

: Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG approved PFD here in : California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other states.   I would have to disagree with you on this one, Pat.  If you could point me at some written source of this, I would greatly appreciate it, because it certainly is too bizarre to be true.   I could believe that it is illegal to water ski without an approved life jacket being worn.  But it CANT be illegal to simply wear a PDF that is not approved while boating.   First off, what is the definition of a PFD?  ( I know, it is a personal floatation device).  My bathing suit is not an approved PDF, does that make it illegal to wear?   OK, that was a smart ass answer.  How about a wet suit?  It floats, but is not approved.  Am I breaking your law by wearing my wetsuit while sitting in the ski boat?   How about my SOS suspenders?  Do I really break a law when I put these on?  Does your law really prefer me to wear nothing at all over a non approved floatation device?   I don’t think so.   There are situations that may require a life jacket to be worn. Water skiing may be one of them, but I am not sure.  But there is no requirement for an adult to wear a life jacket in a boat.  There has to be an approved life jacket for him, it doesn’t need to be worn. And putting on a wet suit, or an inflatable device, or even a ski belt shouldn’t be any legal problem.   You might be confusing a rule that was enacted rather recently.  I forget the actual wording, but I believe that it required *children* under a certain age (I think it was 12) to wear an approved life jacket whenever the boat was underway *unless* any of a whole bunch of exceptions.  The exceptions included being in an enclosed cabin or being tethered.   Rod McInnis

Response:

i live on a lake and use skibelts for just swimming around.  i don’t, and don’t allow visitors to swim unless they wear some type of floatation.  since we don’t jump or play any water sports here, the skibelts are nice to just float in the water off of the dock.  i really dislike having vests riding up under my armpits. so i like to keep skibelts around.  but i’m having difficult times finding them too and i suspect soon i won’t be able to find any.  last i looked, E&B Marine still carried some inexpensive ones.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them. Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any

non-USCG approved PFD here in California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other

states.  You know, Rev. its not a good idea to split hairs on safety devices, particularily one as

dangerous as this one.  You see these belts hold a person face down it the water making them useless on

an unconsciencious or disoriented person.  I could not recommend to anyone where to buy one

nor allow anyone to wear one on my boat.  My comments to the original poster was about these ski

belts only, no other device was mentioned.

<snippers Pat Registered Nurse former Aviation Life Support Equipment maintainance supervisor U.S. Army Reserve — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

I’m afraid that I still have to stand by my original statement regarding the legality/illegality of wearing non-USCG approved PFD’s, including ski belts. There are two "sets" of law in California which deal with the wearing of life jackets: the first is the Charter Boat Safety Act, which empowers (and requires) the Captain of commercial vessels to order passengers into life jackets under particular conditions; the second, which is the one with which we are concerned at the moment, is the Harbours and Navigation Code, Section 658.3: "658.3.  (a) No person shall operate a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel that is 26 feet or less in length unless every person on board who is six years of age or less is wearing a type I, II, or III Coast Guard-approved personal flotation device while that motorboat, sailboat, or vessel is underway.    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person operating a sailboat on which a person who is six years of age or less is restrained by a harness tethered to the vessel, or to a person operating a vessel on which a person who is six years of age or less is in an enclosed cabin.    (c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person operating a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel if the operator is reacting to an emergency rescue situation.    (d) The following definitions govern the construction of this section:    (1) "Enclosed cabin" means a space on board a vessel that is surrounded by bulkheads and covered by a roof.    (2) "Operate a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel" means to be in control or in charge of a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel while it is underway.    (3) "Underway" means all times except when the motorboat, sailboat, or vessel is anchored, moored, or aground.    (e) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 668." Nothing in this section can be construed as to forbid the wearing of non-approved floatation devices, as requiring a person to wear an approved device is not the same as forbidding the wearing of an unapproved one, nor is the wearing of PFD’s by anyone over the age of six addressed in any way. An exhaustive search of all current California State Law failed to turn up any other section which would forbid persons aged 21 or under from wearing  non-approved PFD’s. So while these ski belts may, indeed, be dangerous in some situations, it is not illegal for anyone to wear them. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

Response:

:Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG :approved PFD here in :California while boating or watersking Must be some interesting wording to that legislation. Lets see, my wetsuit offers a little boyancy, is it illegal to wear because its not an approved PFD? I guess its illegal to wear something which isn’t a PFD but *sombody* might think *is* a PFD? — george  

Response:

:To live is to risk harm – some people enjoy taking risks and derive a :great deal of pleasure from putting themselves into harms way. Whether or :not I agree with the wisdom of such risk-taking is irrelevant – to impose :society’s will upon them and declare that they have a duty to avoid all :risk is highly immoral and violates the right of self-determination to :which all people are entitled. you know I agree completely, and I’ve said as much on many ocasions. I dont know what came over me to propose such a thing.. — george  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippers : If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should : be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, : fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming.   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, etc.     Rod McInnis

But my comment was not directed at the wisdom of wearing PFD’s during any particular activity, rather whether or not such wearing of PFD’s should be a matter of legislation. Is it smart to wear a PFD anytime you go into the water? Of course – you never knows when you might slip and fall, particularly when dealing with slippery wet rocks such as one finds in trout streams. Does this then mean that you should be *forced at gunpoint* (for such is the actual implication of such legisation) to wear a PFD during this activity? The risk of drowning is every bit as real as it is during boating, and possibly even greater than the risk of drowning while waterskiing, since while waterskiing rescue is readily available and one actually expects to fall down from time to time. To live is to risk harm – some people enjoy taking risks and derive a great deal of pleasure from putting themselves into harms way. Whether or not I agree with the wisdom of such risk-taking is irrelevant – to impose society’s will upon them and declare that they have a duty to avoid all risk is highly immoral and violates the right of self-determination to which all people are entitled. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

Response:

Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them.

Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG approved PFD here in California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other states.  You know, Rev. its not a good idea to split hairs on safety devices, particularily one as dangerous as this one.  You see these belts hold a person face down it the water making them useless on an unconsciencious or disoriented person.  I could not recommend to anyone where to buy one nor allow anyone to wear one on my boat.  My comments to the original poster was about these ski belts only, no other device was mentioned.      We know that USCG until recently had not approved the automatic inflatable type one life vest, but that was due to an argument over how to inspect them for functionality.  These vests are arguably the safest available because they are relatively comfortable and provide the most bouyancy of any vest sold in most stores. If I have two adults on my boat, I must carry two adult size Coast Guard Approved PFD’s (type I, II, or III), plus one type IV. Whatever *else* I carry, whether Coast Guard Approved or not, is entirely up to my discretion. My husband and I both have SOSpenders which are our primary personal flotation devices. While our SOSpenders are superiour to other PFD’s in every respect, they do not count toward fulfilling our requirement. Therefore we have two adult type I PFD’s to cover our personal requirement, four adult type III’s, two small type I’s, and several type IV’s, which brings us up to and beyond the requirements for our boat as we will not sail with an out-of-balance PFD-to-person ratio.

Pat Registered Nurse former Aviation Life Support Equipment maintainance supervisor U.S. Army Reserve — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

Response:

 I have been trying to find a source for these types of laws, because I have several questions regarding what is "legal" and what is just strongly recommended.  For example, does the law really say that a life jacket MUST he *worn* while skiing?  If so, I would sure like to see how that is worded.

As best as I can find it is legislated at the state level.  In NC you must wear a CG approved flotation device while skiing, etc only if there is not a designated spotter other than the boat driver.  If you’ve got a spotter then nothing or a belt is ok.  I have both and many of the adults prefer the belt but I tell the kids they have to wear the jacket. As to a source, the discount catalogs have them.  Around here Walmart has them and Boaters Discount World, a boat store chain also have them. They’re $7-$9. Lawrence…….

Response:

|   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in | regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to | any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped | violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, | etc.   … or riding in a boat.  You never know what you’ll run into, or what will run into you.  Many folks where seatbelts in their car, for the same reason. — Bob Wood                                                       ascom Nexion                                                        phone:  508-266-2350

Response:

: : :They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in : :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and : :should never be used on a human. : : we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, : which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, : but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. : I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t : be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably : by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills : and slipping right out of the belts. : : : — : george   : : : If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should : be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, : fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming.   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, etc.     Rod McInnis

Response:

: Does anyone know of a source for used (or new) ski belt life : preservers?…I’ve heard that they are no longer "legal?" :   : Don Land   Why on Earth do you want one?   I always enjoyed giving the girls the ski belt because of the increased likelyhood that they would lose their bathing suit top.  :-)   But they are just not a good idea.  I doubt that they would be Coast Guard approved as a life jacket, since they have no tendency to right an unconccious wearer.  In fact, I remember taking a fall wearing one of those and having it slip down to my knees!  Definately not a perferred position!   Rod McInnis

Response:

They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and should never be used on a human. Pat — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them. If I have two adults on my boat, I must carry two adult size Coast Guard Approved PFD’s (type I, II, or III), plus one type IV. Whatever *else* I carry, whether Coast Guard Approved or not, is entirely up to my discretion. My husband and I both have SOSpenders which are our primary personal flotation devices. While our SOSpenders are superiour to other PFD’s in every respect, they do not count toward fulfilling our requirement. Therefore we have two adult type I PFD’s to cover our personal requirement, four adult type III’s, two small type I’s, and several type IV’s, which brings us up to and beyond the requirements for our boat as we will not sail with an out-of-balance PFD-to-person ratio.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and :should never be used on a human. we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills and slipping right out of the belts. — george    

If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming. Don’t get me wrong – I think that life vests are extremely useful items and I wouldn’t dream of going sailing without them. But this nanny-state attitude has *really* got to stop. I do not defer responsibility for my own life to the State, nor will I allow that responsibility to be taken from me by force by meddling do-gooders. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

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:They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and :should never be used on a human. we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills and slipping right out of the belts. — george  

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: They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in : most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and : should never be used on a human. : Pat   Are you sure that they are "illegal"?   I am pretty sure that they no longer qualify as a type three life saving device.  But that doesn’t make them illegal, they just don’t count.   I have been trying to find a source for these types of laws, because I have several questions regarding what is "legal" and what is just strongly recommended.   For example, does the law really say that a life jacket MUST he *worn* while skiing?   If so, I would sure like to see how that is worded.   Barefoot water skiiers tend to *not* wear the Coast Guard approved life jackets.  Instead, a wet suit is worn (even in warm water).   The reason is simple, taking a fall barefooting will rip most jackets right off your body.  And I can tell you that it doesn’t feel too good to have a life jacket ripped off.   If you wear a wet suit, and keep your body lines smooth, you will skim across the surface of the water.  The special "barefoot" suits have extra padding on the seat (what you try to fall on) and chest (which is what hits when you "trip").   They provide plenty of floatation, but are not an approved life jacket.   Another place where life jackets are rarely worn are trick skiers. The jacket impedes thier motion, and the competition seems to be as much on swim suit fashion as anything else.   Rod McInnis

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They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and should never be used on a human. Pat — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

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Does anyone know of a source for used (or new) ski belt life preservers?…I’ve heard that they are no longer "legal?" Don Land

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So now you know you must either dress the hook with thread, or you must not.  Hmmmmm.  Well, I guess that eventually becomes a matter of personal preference.  I prefer to have a thread base whether I’m spinning the hair (as with a Muddler head) or not (as with a Try-It or Caddis).  It has been my experience that I get a bit more control. If the problem you are having is with the spinning of the hair to distribute around the hook shank, then practice is the best answer.  Use a small clump of hair, warp the thread arond the hair and hook, all the way.  Then continue over the top and down the far side.  On your way down, tighten down on the thread, and release the hair from your (usually left) hand.  This USUALLY will draw the hair around the hook. An important part of making a Muddler head is to pack the hair backwards – away from the eye of the hook, and build it up a little bunch at a time.  It is generally sufficient to push it with your thunmbnail and index finger.  Then you can trim it as you see fit after the head is all roughed in and the thread is tied off. G’Luck Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

I think we’ve all been there. It really helps to watch someone who’s good at it. If you don’t know anyone, try getting a video. I have heard people suggest the Jimmy Nix bass bug video  but I have not watched it. The Jack Dennis video, "Tying Western Trout Flys" has some good Information on different types of hair and what they are good for. Make sure you clean out all of the fuzz and any short hairs with a comb or your scissor points. I use larger bunches of hair than most people suggest. I also leave the hook shank bare under the head area. Good luck, Jay Whitworth

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

Hi Jonathan-    A cool trick is to wet the deer hair the let it get *almost* dry. It will spin and flair with ease. OK, well almost. Trick #2 is to trim with a razor blade rather than scissors. Trick #3 is to hit the head with a butane lighter or propane torch (lightly). It will burn all the stray hair even with the base head. Trick #4, have your wife tie it.    Tight heads, Ralph —

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

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The hair you select is important.  Choose hair that is not brittle, such as coastal hair.  Spin it with a soft loop, then a tighter loop and finally a tight loop.  The last loop should spin the hair.  Pack it tight and start again until you get the head you are looking for.  Spinning hair is not easy to learn. I suggest you rent a good video or take a leson. Good luck!

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Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

Might also show up under the moniker of "mustache comb".  I use one (for fly tying) and am able to report it works quite well! Charley

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

Static electricity is also a problem when working with any animal hair.   I use Static Guard to remove that problem.  You can find it in most super markets in the detergent/soap area. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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Recently viewed two videos by Chris Helm (Hooked on Fly Tying series). Chris answers most questions one could have about stacking and spinning deer hair.  Also, Dave Whitlock’s video on bass flies is quite a work. Between them, a tyer should have no trouble tying deer hair patterns for trout or bass.   VA Angler

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I’ve enjoyed reading about various  techniques to improve spinning deer hair.  Has anyone tried STACKING deer hair?    I prefer this method over spinning. It allows me to segment the color of the bass bug I’m tying (white underneath, green on top).   You can create a very realistic fly.  Comments?

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writes: Has anyone tried STACKING deer hair?    I prefer this method over spinning. It allows me to segment the color of the bass bug I’m tying (white underneath, green on top).   You can create a very realistic fly.  Comments?

As the saying goes,"You Betcha!"  You can see some good examples of the technique on Jimmy Nix’s Tying Bass Flies or Dave Whitlock’s 2 tape set. If you get a chance to see Mark Hoesner (sp?) at any of the shows, stop and watch as he is amazing.                                          Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Just as a side note… Deer hair isn’t really hollow, its more a function of the number of air pockets that are in the hair. The hair on the back of the animal is less "hollow" than on the belly due to this feature of air pockets. I find that the belly hair is better for bass bug bodies and the back hair is better for collars. I really stay away from deer hair for caddis and use elk hair because even the worst deer hair still flares too much for my taste. Charles (Chuck) Abbott      The MITRE Corporation "There is not a single blackfly in the Adirondacks. All are married and have large families." Henry Wells

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Both of the other posters have given excellent advise. If however, you still have trouble, get this video- "Tying Bass flies with Jimmy Nix". The man REALLY knows how to teach it. Good luck. — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss,so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!) OK, first pay close attention to the deer hair you’re using. The deer hair must be hollow, that crucial. You can try your deer hair when you push with your finger nail onto some deer hairs. If they spread very well -use it, if not- use it for deer hair caddis. BTW, the best hair for spinning is Caribou, try it (especially if you start tying Irresistibles). Another problem might be the thread – If you change from 8/0 to 6/0 you will less likely break the tread. I usually wind a base of thread before I spin the deer hair (before you start spinning the deer hair make one half hitch just in case you brake the tread). Take a small (!) bunch of deer hair, hold it onto the hook and make one tread turn and then pull it tight and make another turn exactly on top of the first- the deer hair will spread around the hook. Push the hair bach to the shank and make one half hitch (just in case you break the tread) and tie in the next bunch of Caribou. After you spinned enough deer hair whip finish (or make two half hitches- you can do the latter faster and it is equaly stable). Trim the hair with a razor blade. I don’t use a hair stacker for the deer hair (for the first bunch of deer hair you can if you like). I usually take a bunch and take out very long hairs, then I hold the bunch at the tip and pull out very short hairs and underfur. That is simply faster and it looks more natural to me. If you tie in the deer hair close to the base it spinns easier! Hope that helps               Thomas

Forgot to mention two things: The best introduction how to work with deer hair is probably in the WESTERN FLY TYING MANUAL VOL. II b= y Jack Dennis (revised edition!). One tip of Jack is: tie at least on dozen of each fly, with tying only two or three you won’t get = it- don’t be frustrated (I can confirm by myself, it works only this way: tie at least one or two dozen- the only way to get real go= od flies and to improve speed).                   Thomas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ——                                         /                       Harvard University                                                / Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology                     / 16 Divinity Ave.                                                / Cambridge, MA 02138                                            / Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716                                       / Fax:  (USA)  617 495 9300                                 O  /                                                          |_/o                                                        / | _______

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I had the same hangup when I started.  I found that the thread and packer were key to success with deer hair.  First, a good strong thread (kevlar if you can afford the bulk) was critical for me as a beginner.  A descent packer helped, too – especially when using the heavier threads.  Lastly, try trimming with a razor if you’re not doing so already.  I’ve found the razor yeilds a much better shape when all is said and done. — Ray Anderson Fall River MA  USA "Imagination is more important than knowledge." –  Albert Einstein

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

OK, first pay close attention to the deer hair you’re using. The deer hair must be hollow, that crucial. You can try your deer hair when you push with your finger nail onto some deer hairs. If they spread very well -use it, if not- use it for deer hair caddis. BTW, the best hair for spinning is Caribou, try it (especially if you start tying Irresistibles). Another problem might be the thread – If you change from 8/0 to 6/0 you will less likely break the tread. I usually wind a base of thread before I spin the deer hair (before you start spinning the deer hair make one half hitch just in case you brake the tread). Take a small (!) bunch of deer hair, hold it onto the hook and make one tread turn and then pull it tight and make another turn exactly on top of the first- the deer hair will spread around the hook. Push the hair bach to the shank and make one half hitch (just in case you break the tread) and tie in the next bunch of Caribou. After you spinned enough deer hair whip finish (or make two half hitches- you can do the latter faster and it is equaly stable). Trim the hair with a razor blade. I don’t use a hair stacker for the deer hair (for the first bunch of deer hair you can if you like). I usually take a bunch and take out very long hairs, then I hold the bunch at the tip and pull out very short hairs and underfur. That is simply faster and it looks more natural to me. If you tie in the deer hair close to the base it spinns easier! Hope that helps                Thomas ——                                          /                       Harvard University                                                / Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology                     / 16 Divinity Ave.                                                / Cambridge, MA 02138                                            / Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716                                       / Fax:  (USA)  617 495 9300                                 O  /                                                           |_/o                                                         / | _______

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

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Try Fly & Field at http://www.flyfield.com. e-mail them and ask about Chris Helm’s deer hair products. He sorts the various hair from various species to get you just the stuff you need for the particular job. Todd

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions?

Practice if necessary with thread strong enough never to break; and be sure to comb out all fluff from hair butts first. Place a pinch (no more than will fit in a .22 shell case) of aligned hair across the naked hook shank (i.e. no thread base at all) and secure with two loose turns of thread.  Then pull gradually but quite hard, to spin thread around the hook while you tighten. If OK, keep tension on thread while you shove everything rearward with thumbnail(s) — not too much — and then spin on some more.  Only experience will indicate how much hair to use.  Sparse heads sink better, massive heads float better. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Hi, I see another person steered you toward Chris Helm — he did you a real favour.  Chris has some great hair and you can reach him at 419-474-2348. His business is called White Tail Supplies or something like that. Just tell Chris what you need the hair for and he will make sure you get the right stuff. A tip: If you decide to go to a fly shop instead of calling Chris be sure to look for hair (in the packages, of course) that is basically light grey rather than dark grey.  The light grey hair will spin into a very nice muddler head BUT the dark grey hair will NOT. Good Luck! Al Beatty

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donald thanks for the advise as I am haveing the same problem. I am new to fly tying, and fishing, I just started flyfishing here in northern alberta, some very good streams, just have to learn how to catch some fish keith wyman

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