Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing

Need info Gallitin MT flyfishing

admin — Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

.. how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

None of the NF campgrounds have power, period. — Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/RV

Response:

Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn please send email to

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest (july3 to 16 aprox) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn please send email to

Response:

there who is familiar with the area. Just click on the URL above, it’ll take you there directly without having to "subscribe" to the newsgroup.

Response:

Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest

When? (I’d ask why, since I wouldn’t bother any more) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge

Yes will be takeing a 30 foot class A is a dingy necessary ?

Where are you planning to stay? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

The only place I am recalling with power is the KOA at Bozeman Hotsprings (which also gives you access to the springs pools) —

Response:

OT: News groups/usenet

admin — Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Depends on if you’re japanese…

then it would be: fry frishing steveb – who is so happy elle is more cheerful

Response:

Depends on if you’re japanese… then it would be: fry frishing steveb – who is so happy elle is more cheerful

Thank you. I’m happy about it, too Thankfully my low points lately are fairly fleeting. hugs, elle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Depends on if you’re japanese… then it would be: fry frishing steveb – who is so happy elle is more cheerful Thank you. I’m happy about it, too Thankfully my low points lately are fairly fleeting. hugs, elle

Me too Frampy (just wantng to join in the discussion)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you fly fish? Getting a little personal arent we.

LOL Okay, to get serious again(?) for a second, the reason I asked is that Dave saw this posted earlier today at a fly fishing (or is it flyfishing?) forum he frequents and e-mailed it to me. So I thought I would ask hugs, elle

Response:

Hey, Murray – Do you fly fish? hugs, elle (I know, it seems unrelated, but I have my reasons

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb?

Response:

Do you fly fish?

actually elle…isn’t that one word?

Response:

Do you fly fish? actually elle…isn’t that one word?

Depends on if you’re japanese… bada- bing! Sorry, couldn’t resist. Actually, it may very well be one word. If it is, it’s two words combined. Sort of like website vs. web site. I still haven’t sorted out whether there is a clear opinion as to which is the correct form. Don’t care, either, since both convey the correct information My days of worrying about form over function are (thankfully) long behind me. hugs, elle

Response:

Do you fly fish?

Getting a little personal arent we.

I knew this was going to happen. Actually, it may very well be one word.

This could get ugly. hugs, elle

Murray

Response:

How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the light bulb and 1 to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 53 to flame the spell checkers 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it’s "lightbulb" or "light bulb" … another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct 156 to email the participant’s ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy" 109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum 203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped 111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty 27 to post URL’s where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URL’s were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL’s 3 to post about links they found from the URL’s that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too" 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 19 to quote the "Me too’s" to say "Me three" 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 4 to say "didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?" 143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs" 1 new forum member to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again

Response:

Hey, Murray – Do you fly fish? hugs, elle (I know, it seems unrelated, but I have my reasons

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb?

Response:

Do you fly fish?

actually elle…isn’t that one word?

Response:

Do you fly fish? actually elle…isn’t that one word?

Response:

Do you fly fish?

Getting a little personal arent we.

I knew this was going to happen. Actually, it may very well be one word.

This could get ugly. hugs, elle

Murray

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you fly fish? Getting a little personal arent we.

Response:

Depends on if you’re japanese…

then it would be: fry frishing steveb – who is so happy elle is more cheerful

Response:

Depends on if you’re japanese… then it would be: fry frishing steveb – who is so happy elle is more cheerful

Thank you. I’m happy about it, too Thankfully my low points lately are fairly fleeting. hugs, elle

Response:

Me too Frampy (just wantng to join in the discussion)

Response:

Does anyone here read these posts?

admin — Sat, 25 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cross posting is never OK. Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. Thanks for letting me vent… Douglas- As a long time fence sitter I see Chaka and Tom Beno and Muskie as the only ones willing to counter an anti-environmental attack in They are all the same fuck-nut. Do you think posting crap anonymously and not even reading the follow ups is countering something? You must be fuck-nut number 4. I sleep well knowing that such shut-ins and agoraphobes have no bearing on the real world. —

Agoraphobes … interesting. I’d been thinking xenophobes. Thanks.

Response:

This is pretty funny Wolf, considering you like to prop yourself up on the lifeguard chair and look down on it all from above. You think you’re "above it all", yet in reality you are still in between the fences at the community pool. What a fool. You can blow the whistle, but your still a part of the routine.

On the contrary, my dear Bottom. Nothing could be further from my mind than staying "above it all". As a matter of fact, I dare say that a few over here in r.o.f.f. will recognize my name from my occasional participation in spirited discussions. Moreover, I’m the only person I know of who has gone on record as being a big fan of these cross posted threads for their entertainment value. That I don’t engage the gaggle of twits, gits, poltroons, and buffoons who so selflessly and gleefully and expose their appalling deficiencies more frequently should not be seen as a mark of disapproval, but rather a testament to my inability to add anything substantive to what is already a three ring circus of vacuousness, stunningly inappropriate vanity, and ignorance on a biblical scale. On the other hand, the tenor of the above quoted material and its significance will hardly be lost on the keen student, eh? :) Wolfgang oh, and it warn’t no dream.

Response:

In Outlook Express, Click on Message, then "Block Sender" Works a treat. — Peter Stockfeld Phone 0417 937 962 Fax 03 9682 0070

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found a neat program that attaches itself to Outlook Express and allows you to block all emails and news group posts from any individual. You never know that they still exist. Wish I could find it to share with the rest of you. Muskie, Bitterroot and Rosco no longer exist!!! This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a

Response:

POLITICS AGAIN - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - \ This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ\ The guy who wrote the article is a staunch Republican. Get your head out of your ass moron. Even conservative outdoors mags are coming down on the Bush administration. Wake the fuck up idiot.

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Does anyone here read these posts? I do. I don't agree with all the cross-posting. But most of the posts are relevant to rec.backcountry at least. People complain about the large volume of this person's posts. But each post covers a different action taken by the Bush administration to further degrade our backcountry and environment. So the large volume of posts is only a reflection of the large volume of Bush's anti-backcountry actions That in itself should be troubling to any backcountry recreationist. Anyone who supports Bush couldn't possibly care about the backcountry or the environment. It's just plain old NIMBYism. As long as Bush is trying to stick oil wells, increase logging, allow more pollution or roll back environmental protections in someone else's favorite backcountry area it's OK. Why don't you LEARN how to NOT crosspost. This asinine crossposting has screwed up alt.great-lakes. idiots -- WaIIy -- reply to: eIvez

Agreed, if everyone trimmed the headers to only post back to the group they are in, the threads would die out fast except in groups that are interested. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Response:

"\ POLITICS AGAIN\ No dipshit. It's a fishing article. Get your head out of your ass.

Response:

\ Nope. In the first place, routinely cross posting to half a dozen or more news groups inhabited mainly by fools who are convinced (for no apparent reason) that they have something to say assures that he will never be ignored. Secondly, Muskie is the sort of pathetic sociopath who simply doesn't go away. Wolfgang oh, and think of the consequences if he ever DID.......ya'll would have no one but each other to play with! :)\

This is pretty funny Wolf, considering you like to prop yourself up on the lifeguard chair and look down on it all from above. You think you're "above it all", yet in reality you are still in between the fences at the community pool. What a fool. You can blow the whistle, but your still a part of the routine.

Response:

I found a neat program that attaches itself to Outlook Express and allows you to block all emails and news group posts from any individual. You never know that they still exist. Wish I could find it to share with the rest of you. Muskie, Bitterroot and Rosco no longer exist!!!

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado's Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave

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You are the "DipShit" ya hypocrite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "\ POLITICS AGAIN\ No dipshit. It’s a fishing article. Get your head out of your ass.

Response:

GYRO, why crosspost a meaningless reply to everyone? Especially including the entire original. It’s as bad as the original poster you seem to be complaining about.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – POLITICS AGAIN!

Response:

Cross posting is never OK. Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. Thanks for letting me vent…

Douglas- As a long time fence sitter I see Chaka and Tom Beno and Muskie as the only ones willing to counter an anti-environmental attack in newsgroups that beagan in the late 1990’s… Posts from the likes of Vikki Eggers (a paid employees of the "Share the Trails" pro access group) and the worst of the bunch: mel-anie "sharethewoods" who you can do a quick search on and see what s/he is about. ..these two single handedly invaded the NP, backcountry and numerous other NG’s with the single intention of disirupting any positive or constructive comments and to drive away the borderline poster… If you hate the weed of troll, dig around and include the root, it’s twice as deep and three times as nasty… Elvis

Response:

\ This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ\

The guy who wrote the article is a staunch Republican. Get your head out of your ass moron. Even conservative outdoors mags are coming down on the Bush administration. Wake the fuck up idiot.

Response:

Cross posting is never OK. The OK method is to post seperately to every relevant group. He is a troll who will keep trolling as long as people keep replying to his trash. I keep the troll killfiled, and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t quote his bullshit everytime. (Not you Chaka, everyone in general) His posts accomplish nothing and are the root cause of many arguments, ignore him, and he will go away.

This is the root of the problem. There are specific groups this pertains to, such as rec.backcountry, and should be kept to the environmental groups. If, for example, Chaka wants to post something specifically relating to the Great Lakes area (i.e., the Bush administration OKs power boats in the Boundary Waters), that’s on-topic and OK by me (not picking on you in any way, Chaka, BTW). But when that troll Bob Smith/Richard Dent/Esox/whothehellever posts his stuff about drilling in Alaska, or threats to streams in the Appalachians, it’s over the line and needs to be kept in the appropriate groups. I have absolutely no problem with environmental posts. Hell, I’m an environmental scientist working in CWA stuff, have been for the last eight years. But when his posts are about Alaska, or Bush’s approval ratings, all I see is a spammer. And make no mistake: any guy who jumps from free email account to free email account, not responding to anything, using a fake name, is a spammer. No different than the crap about penis enlargement and new credit cards that are overfilling my inbox every single day. I dare say that a number of people subscribing to alt.great-lakes and the flyfishing groups that were sitting on the fence as far as Bush and the environment go are now slanted against environmental protection. Why? Because they’re so pissed off with having it shoved down their throats. I know where the environmental NGs are, and I subscribe to some of them. I DON’T need to see it in alt.great-lakes every day. And I have to say it makes me unhappy that so many environmentalists seem to support this crossposting carpetbombing campaign. On several occasions, people from these satellite groups (for lack of a better term) posted politely to request the crossposting cease, only to be rudely rebuffed by apparent "environmentalists". Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. I’d like as much as anyone else to have an environmentally friendly president in the White House. But to be honest, at this point, I’m as frustrated with the environmental movement as I am with, say, the pro-life movement. I’m just sick of all the in-your-face stuff, and I feel pretty alienated by it all. There are better ways to make a point. Thanks for letting me vent…

Response:

The posts are just DNC bulletins under the environmental smokescreen.

Protecting our backcountry should not be a partisan issue. The greatest conservationist president was undoubtedly Teddy Roosevelt, a republican. I’m an independent. The reason I criticize Bush so much is not because he’s a republican, but because of his total indifference to our wilderness, Parks, Monuments, Forests, wildlife and all things environmental. Fly Rod and Reel is just the latest outdoors magazine that has had enough of Bush’s bullshit. Field and Stream criticized him and Outdoor magazine called Norton Bush’s "stealth weapon" against the backcountry and environment. If Bush got his way the whole country would be a polluted, treeless hellhole like Texas. That’s what he thinks of as the backcountry. Mile after mile after mile of barbed wire fences and oilwells. Yahooo!!!

Response:

This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave trout stranded. But the park had a good attitude and let all hands know it would be happy to work out the kinks. It let the downstream town of Delta know it didn’t want to flood the buildings that had mushroomed in the floodplain since Blue Mesa Dam started holding back spring runoff in 1965. It let upstream hay growers, about half of whom have water rights junior to, and therefore subordinate to, the park’s, know that it had no wish to cut into their profits. After all, the feds had not claimed any of the water that was legally theirs since FDR established the monument in 1933. They expressed a willingness to work with irrigators and to spare them economic hardship. It wouldn’t have been difficult. Still, the state, irrigators and developers threw a hissy

Response:

POLITICS AGAIN!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave trout stranded. But the park had a good attitude and let all hands know it would be happy to work out the kinks. It let the downstream town of Delta know it didn’t want to flood the buildings that had mushroomed in the floodplain since

Response:

The posts are just DNC bulletins under the environmental smokescreen. Strictly for gullible morons who haven’t paid attention to the issues. LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone here read these posts? I do. I don’t agree with all the cross-posting. But most of the posts are relevant to rec.backcountry at least. People complain about the large volume of this person’s posts. But each post covers a different action taken by the Bush administration to further degrade our backcountry and environment. So the large volume of posts is only a reflection of the large volume of Bush’s anti-backcountry actions That in itself should be troubling to any backcountry recreationist. Anyone who supports Bush couldn’t possibly care about the backcountry or the environment. It’s just plain old NIMBYism. As long as Bush is trying to stick oil wells, increase logging, allow more pollution or roll back environmental protections in someone else’s favorite backcountry area it’s OK.

Response:

Thoughts on Karl Snyder

admin — Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You’re better than this Mike. I pray that you find your peace. — TBone Prayers? Humbug. Superstitious mumbo-jumbo, merely a prop for inadequacy, or an excuse to go out and murder or damage somebody with impunity, and all by the "grace", or indeed on the purported "orders", of some mythical being. Which, if it existed at all, would long since have wiped the whole nasty

sordid mess of humanity from the slate, and started again. Or given up

altogether, disgusted by it

Top and stripping guide

admin — Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

All, I have a stripping guide and a top guide where the inner ring is made of the mineral Agate. I had planned to use these with a split cane blank, but on closer inspection i found the top guide damaged. There’s a small piece missing in the Agate ring. My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today? — Any help appreciated. / Roger Daytime engineer Lifetime flyfisherman If you feel like it, visit http://home.bip.net/angler/ for info on flyfishing in Sweden

Response:

All, I have a stripping guide and a top guide where the inner ring is made of the mineral Agate. My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today?

If You master japanese, http://www.bluedun.net/RodBuilding-Guides.htm ( http://babelfish.altavista.com/ for translation) http://www.snakeguides.com/ , maybe more comprehensible. Always a start! Stefan

Response:

I get all my rodbuilding stugff from www.AnglersWarehouse.com They definitely have what you want. Be prepared to pay a lot for agates! Pete Collin

Response:

My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today?

I know of several sources for the agate stripper guides, but I haven’t seen new agate tiptops around. After reading your post, I went down and looked through my own stash of rod parts, and every agate tiptop I have is cracked and unusable, so unless you’re working on a restoration, you might not want to use one. Agate strippers otoh can last a very long time if properly cared for; they are available at Angler’s Workshop, among other places. I recently spent an afternoon pawing through the parts bins at Rick’s Rods in Denver, and I think they’d have used or nos agate tiptops.

Response:

I'll say it now, while he's still alive

admin — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Recent tirades accusing folks of severe mushiness in their reminiscing about the dearly departed have led me to assess my feelings toward Mr. Connor now, lest I be so accused of a similar affront to the group’s common sensibilities at a later date. Thus the following: I enjoy Mikes poetry, even though it is often rather acerbic. It is still quite witty, and even sounds like I think poetry ought to sound, that is it rhymes and has a certain meter to it. I appreciate Mike’s technical knowledge of the pastime we all enjoy so much. I have no idea where Mike learned all the stuff he professes (his technical discussions of flylines come to mind), but in general, it seems that he knows what he is talking about, and adds my general knowledge of flyfishing. I think I would enjoy fishing with him some day, although I doubt that would ever happen as it is unlikely I will travel to his neck of the woods at a time when a flyrod should accompany me (plus, there are just so many great places to fish on this side of the great pond). I think I would learn things from him, and I believe I would enjoy his wit and humor. Hopefully, he would enjoy fishing with me as well, although I doubt that there is much he would learn from me, other than how to execute a rather amateurish "Full Reid" from a drift boat. I do not enjoy Mike’s eloquent tirades accusing an increasingly large part of the flyfishing community of being assholes, etc. Frankly, I don’t enjoy the rejoinders from those accused much either. That sort of name calling and language really doesn’t impress me much. I have always thought the English language rich enough that concentration on just a few four letter adjectives misses a wealth of opportunity. I am reminded of that great scene in Roxanne where Steve Martin replies to his tormentor’s "Hey big nose" greeting with a rapid fire list of 20 eloquent alternatives. So there, I’ve said it. No one can accuse me of sentimental mushery after the fact. Jim Ray

Response:

Careful Jim, somebody might accuse you of sentimental mushery before the fact. Just as well for you that I did not die in the meantime! I fear you would have been in deep doo-doo!!! )) TL MC

Response:

Just as well for you that I did not die in the meantime! I fear you would have been in deep doo-doo!!! ))

Not really.. it seems the only person opposing such mushing would have been gone at that point…

Response:

East Coast Fly Fishing Symposium

admin — Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m. (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you). Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930. First time on the NJ Turnpike. If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder. Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32. Sheesh!! I’m a West Coast kinda guy. We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie). I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand. We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more. Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too. Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen. His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing. I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show. By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up. Where were you, you whimps!? If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South. $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes. I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool! Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32. Sheesh!! I’m a West Coast kinda guy. We ain’t used to these toll roads. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Thanks! "Eugene Cottrell" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South. $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes. I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

Response:

Overall, a very worthwhile show. By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up. Where were you, you whimps!?

(Un)fortunately, I get to play host for Thanksgiving this year so I have to rearrange the house to get a dining room back. Also got signed up for a software project on Friday, so my schedule is way too tight. I really wanted to go this year. Did you by any chance get to see Marla Blair tying? She usually shares a table with Dick Talleur and I know they were traveling down together. She ties some amazing (unfishable) realistic grasshoppers and crickets. –Stan (I *will* be at the Somerset flyfishing show in January)

Response:

Stan, I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her. Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter?? Tom

Response:

I would LOVE to have made it up to this event! Couldn’t get away this time around though. Right now I’m in pretty good shape in all departments except hooks and a tyer can NEVER have enough chicken feathers! What I missed most was the techniques to be learned from the real experts. I have an interest in the Catskill style and would really like to improve myself in that area. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m. (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you). Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930. First time on the NJ Turnpike. If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder. Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32. Sheesh!! I’m a West Coast kinda guy. We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie). I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand. We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more. Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too. Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen. His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing. I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show. By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up. Where were you, you whimps!? If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Stan, I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her. Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter?? Tom

The Danbury show is January 3-5. I’ve never been to that one, but it’s pretty close by and I know a couple of people I could talk into going. All they have listed on their site is a bunch of tying classes (and a rod building class). What else do you know about that show? We already have a room booked for the Somerset show in January – I think at the Holiday Inn (better bar than the DoubleTree). I love that show.

Response:

Howdy All Would have liked to have made the show myself but with the recent rains i am behind on my yard cleanings with snow a possibility this week had to get as much done as we could this weekend. Maybe in Jan. who knows the weather will dictate that also. Handyman Mike Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

There are some new people there too. Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen. His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing. I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening.

The lion fish fly pic is on a.b.p.f. Frank

Response:

butt leaks

admin — Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Why bright orange ? Hunters ?

Obviously, you don’t read InStyle magazine. Get with the program. Mu

Response:

Every time I see the title of this thread I shudder, and I think, no . . . there’s no way I can comment at all on someone’s butt leak. I’m still shuddering. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been through several pairs of various breathable waders too damn quickly …. they all developed leaks in the rear I’m sure this is because I fish from a kickboat a lot and the kicking while sitting on a fairly hard surface stresses the membrane under my rear and causes it to fail before I rush out to spend the big bucks on Sims …. will they stand up to this use? I’ve heard enough " the very best" reports about them to believe they are the best and tough in "normal" use … but I’m not sure my lard ass kickin round the pond is normal Anyone used Sim guides for a LONG time with LOTS of kickboat time …. or should I just stick with my old neoprenes for that use? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I fish around 60 days a year, and that will be going up ( assuming enough snow to make water to fish in) to around 100, as I am now semi-retired I am getting Sims, waiting for the G3’s. I will use them for all wade fishing, where my kickboat isn’t a factor. But the real reason for my post was to see if the "seat crunching, material sliding on itself under pressure" deal of kickboat use ( both kicking and rowing cause this sliding) is simply beyond "breathable" technology. If breathables can be made to last, they are ideal. Since most of your body is out of the water, rowing or kicking, breathable is literally "cool" but when you stop to wade fish, leaks are far too cool. FWIW, I just this minute called Simms and the nice lady told me that "guide input" was a a reason the G3’s will have a greatly tougher "rear" and, implied that they have had problems with the membrane breaking down under lots of "kickboat" use ( rowing a drift boat would be the same, btw ) and felt the new design would solve the problem …but "Nothing is infallible." I have good 5mm neoprenes, but roast in them, maybe I’ll try some 3mm, or a second pair of cheaper breathables for when I drift rivers in the watermaster or fish still waters using it Then again, maybe I’ll just use the Simms and end up with a sad tale, or great product testimonial —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

hehe …sorry most of the outdoorsmen I know aren’t that sensitive. I’ll be more careful in the future …. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

If you have to hike long distances to get to your spots and you wear your waders, you’ll eventually blow out the seams or the neoprene in the feet. More and more, I find myself packing my waders and a pair of lightweight boots until I get there. That’s where most of my wear comes from. You can go through lots of felts that way. I also wear out the insides of the legs of my waders. Like you pointed out to me, I sound like a kid with new corduroys when I walk in my waders. I think I’ll continue to wear them out this way because I don’t like to fish with a pack on my back and I’m either too absent minded or get too preoccupied when fishing to remember picking up a pack when I put it down. Willi

Response:

FWIW, I just this minute called Simms and the nice lady told me that "guide input" was a a reason the G3’s will have a greatly tougher "rear" and, implied that they have had problems with the membrane breaking down under lots of "kickboat" use ( rowing a drift boat would be the same, btw ) and felt the new design would solve the problem …but "Nothing is infallible."

Blaze orange neoprene butt pads ought to be integral to every pair of waders – that is if you don;t mind looking like an orangutan in heat. Mu

Response:

This one’s easy, never eat olestra while flyfishing. Your pal, — TBone

Response:

Why bright orange ? Hunters ? Not a bad idea. A camper got shot on the AT here in Georgia the other day. I was surprised to learn that it is even legal to shoot *from* the trail. — Charlie…

Much of the Appalachian Trail is on private property and exists there only by the grace of individual land owners. Where this is the case, I suspect that by and large it’s use is not governed by any official regulation beyond that which applies to private land use in general. Where one may or may not discharge a firearm legally probably varies somewhat from state to state, but here in Wisconsin hiking trails on private property are not subject to the same restrictions as say, improved roads, where one may not shoot from the road surface itself or anywhere within a certain distance from it. I’m guessing that most states are similar in this regard. Wolfgang

Response:

I’m sure you are correct. I said I was surprised, not shocked, simply because I hadn’t thought it through. I often fish close to the trail and had a misguided sense that I was safer there than away from it. It makes perfect sense, though, that hunters would also use the trail for access, etc. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve heard gunshots the last two times I was out fishing. Made me wish that I had put some orange reflective tape on the back of my wading jacket, as I’ve been meaning to, for the past year

Same thing happened here last week. I forgot it was the first day of firearms season for deer. Heard three gunshots during while on the stream, and also wished I had a blaze orange hat or jacket. To top it off, this was the first time in about three years that I had fished this particular stretch of water, and I hoped the fishing had improved. It hadn’t. Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same thing happened here last week. I forgot it was the first day of firearms season for deer. Heard three gunshots during while on the stream, and also wished I had a blaze orange hat or jacket. To top it off, this was the first time in about three years that I had fished this particular stretch of water, and I hoped the fishing had improved. It hadn’t. Bob The stretch of water Scott and I were on, according to various and sundry Highly Reliable Witnesses we ran into, was great fishing two weeks before, one week before, the previous Tuesday, the previous Thursday and hell, even the day before, and … you know the punchline. Remove "XYZ" from email address

But we did hear gunshots!!! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

I read this and thought "Who nicked the duck?"

Response:

Hi All, Another story: I had a custom is this fall who was going to Montana and wanted new waders for the trip. He said he had bought 3 different under $200 brands of imported waders (which I won’t mention) over the past few years and had problems with them all because he was a very active stream fly fisher. He said some of the ffing guides he has met and some of his friends bragged about the Simms Guide model Gore-Tex waders so he was going to finally move up to them ($330US for 2003). If you actually fish a lot and are young and/or strong, you will good through most entry level products. Many ffers don’t actually get out much, so the less expensive gear works for them. Actually, you can now buy a "made in USA" breathable wader from Simms that is leak tested at their plant in Montana for $149US. This should out sell most all the sub-$200 imports. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Another story: I had a custom is this fall who was going to Montana and wanted new waders for the trip. He said he had bought 3 different under $200 brands of imported waders (which I won’t mention) over the past few years and had problems with them all because he was a very active stream fly fisher. He said some of the ffing guides he has met and some of his friends bragged about the Simms Guide model Gore-Tex waders so he was going to finally move up to them ($330US for 2003). If you actually fish a lot and are young and/or strong, you will good through most entry level products. Many ffers don’t actually get out much, so the less expensive gear works for them.

I find that what’s hell on waders isn’t wading — it’s hiking through lots of prickly stuff, like wild roses and blackberries, and falling on your ass (no "butt leaks" yet, however). I look for pinhole leaks about every half dozen times I fish on my homewaters. If you have to hike long distances to get to your spots and you wear your waders, you’ll eventually blow out the seams or the neoprene in the feet. More and more, I find myself packing my waders and a pair of lightweight boots until I get there.

Response:

I’ve been through several pairs of various breathable waders too damn quickly …. they all developed leaks in the rear I’m sure this is because I fish from a kickboat a lot and the kicking while sitting on a fairly hard surface stresses the membrane under my rear and causes it to fail before I rush out to spend the big bucks on Sims …. will they stand up to this use? I’ve heard enough " the very best" reports about them to believe they are the best and tough in "normal" use … but I’m not sure my lard ass kickin round the pond is normal Anyone used Sim guides for a LONG time with LOTS of kickboat time …. or should I just stick with my old neoprenes for that use? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I have a pair of Simms Guide Weights that I’ve used a fair amount in my float tube without any leak problems in the butt area. However, because I thought that that might be a problem for any breathables, I always wear an old worn out pair of neoprenes from which I’ve cut off most of the legs and left only enough of the top portion for the suspenders (looks like a pair of lederhosen) over the breathables. Bob Weinberger

Response:

I’ve never had a "butt leak" (an unfelicitous phrase, if ever I’ve heard one) in my Simm’s breathable waders, and I do quite a bit of float tubing. But then, I only get a about two years of use from a pair. I think my hard use trashes them before "butt leaks" ever have a chance to develop.

Response:

When you sit are they tight? You might be putting udo stress on the fabric.. john

Response:

please help me choose a vise

admin — Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

Ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto.

Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel. — Charlie…

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel.

For an economical, non-rotary vise, I started with the Griffin 2A. A nice vise for not much money. It’s worth mentioning in light of Charlie’s post that the clamp base for the Griffin and the pedestal base for the Renzetti are interchangeable between the two vises. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

I have the heavy-duty version of the Renzetti Traveler. I think it’s called the "Saltwater" model, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it gives me the flexibility to tie big steelhead flies, but it still works OK for small flies. I recommend the pedestal version. You can always fix it to your table with a small C-clamp.

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

FWIW (for the Western New England contingent), I just got back from BG Sporting Goods in Westfield, MA and all of their vises are 20% off, which makes their price on the Traveler with cam and pedestal base about $125.00. They also had some nice STH reels at 50% off. — TL, Tim

Response:

Joe F. writes: I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Joe F.

Ditto Dave

Response:

I would recommend the Orvis rotary.

Second that George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." —- J.W Muller

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Another vote here for the Traveler Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range.

WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

Response:

So what vise guys.

Oh, vise guys, is it? Listen kiddo ve vas fly fishin ven your mama vas feedin you on prechewed gefilte fish! HAH! Wolfgang i’ll give ya vise guys! :(

Response:

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

and in what era was that? The Pleistocene? Peter (who paid more for his in deflated Northern Pesos)

Response:

My folks gave me a Regal for Christmas about 15 years ago. Have never had a problem, still using it today. Mine is a little different than this newer model, (no swivel head) but the jaws are pretty much the same. Great vise! http://www.worleybuggerflyco.com/flytyingtools/Regal_Vises.htm Good luck, JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Response:

(I can be pretty abusive).

Though, from what I’ve read here, you are mostly self-abusive. Kevin Wait, that doesn’t sound right…

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. Paul

Response:

I would choose flyfishing over drinking, doing drugs, cheating on your spouse, or collecting beanie babies . . . but that’s just my opinion. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

But still three times more than his highest-priced choice. Just slightly above your price range is the Thompson A Vise, at around $35- $40 at many fly shops. The advantage over all the vises Cabelas has on that page is a stellar reputation for being a very functional utilitarian vise that will last for years and years. If anything on it breaks, its easily and cheaply replaceable, without buying a whole new vise. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

http://www.mossycreek.com/orvis_rotary.htm I would recommend the Orvis rotary. I got the original of this, made by Danica while over in the UK. Its not as pretty as a Renzetti, but its a vise that will be passed down and used by your great grand kids even after the most abusive use you can think of (I can be pretty abusive). All this for only $80. I’ve even gotten a couple of professional tiers to switch (Mike Martinek for one). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 …2 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Believe it or not, I just selected the whole deal in Xnews, right clicked and selected "Edit URL", hit OK, and it took me right to the page. Xnews rocks! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink.

Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Response:

http://www.nor-vise.com/norviseinfo.html Best ever. Mr.G.

Response:

[posted and mailed] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Gee, that link was easy to put back together! Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg

Gee, that link was easy to put back together! Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9& i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2 F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc

That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Response:

I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

white river, arkansas

admin — Wed, 30 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? — Stay connected, Carl D. Sgro

Response:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river?

Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep. I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip. Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep. I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river?

Norfork River Resort in Salesville, AR. Very nice, new cabins. Actually on the Norfork River, a tributary of the White, approximately 1 mile from the confluence. http://www.arkansas.com/attractions/attr_detail/r/Ozarks/id/90359/lr/…

Response:

Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip. Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep. I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Excuses excuses. How can you become a flyfishing hermit when you are attentive to the needs of your loved ones? Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip. Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep. I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

I understand . . . LOL . . . It looks like the first Sat I will be able to get away is going to be the 23rd. . . . . wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuses excuses. How can you become a flyfishing hermit when you are attentive to the needs of your loved ones? Memphis Jim Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip. Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep. I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one: http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Check out http://www.mtnhome.net/brf/ Dale Fulton owns a fine fly shop in Mountain Home, AR, has access to guides, and has cabins on the river. Also see http://www.mtnhome.net/fultons/ I have no direct relationship with Dale, other than I’ve shopped there, stayed in his lodge, and generally endorse him as a fine guy. Best, John. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river. can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? — Stay connected, Carl D. Sgro