Question:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary

For a real challenge, try that with an 8 weight… /daytripper (Not sure if waving goodbye is all that fun, though

Response:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

Response:

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

I wish I could say Belize was the worst I have seen. But then I didn’t spend much time on the mainland there, where conditions are much worse than where I was. — Charlie…

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But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world.

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

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The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime.

…now why am I not surprised that you would do that Bill? I always knew you wuz one of the good guys. Good on ya. Frank Church

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But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Hmm . . . this was certainly true in Thailand.  Went there 6 times from 94-98. ( northern part of the country) (always stayed at the rear of the hotel where I stayed most. . . wanted it quieter)  Behind the hotel was a small field and a series of "small" wood buildings.  Some of the employees "lived" in these.   Would see them starting fires in the morning to cook breakfast and at night for dinner.  There was one shower for all the families, outside, with a cloth curtain. . . no hot water . . . and one outhouse.   These are the folks that did all aspects of the hotel functions. The owners live in suites at the top of the hotel. . . think they took a whole floor . . . or even two.  (quite a few fancy houses around the hotel from the other side of the economy,  with people catering to all resident needs) But with many of the hotel employees, and "most" other people I worked with in Thailand, they were selfless.  (I wasn’t at one of the higher end hotels) I got invited to a number of family events and functions of the less fortunate in terms of money.  I was overwhelmed by the generosity of them to share whatever they had to share.  Interesting reflection, at least to me, saving "face" is important over in that area of the world.  Even if I wanted to say something to an employee, I have to be careful about the presentation, and who was present.  (maybe we, in other parts of the world, can learn a bit from that concept) Neat thing to get into if you get a chance to work, and share experiences, with the people in the country you visit. (Naturally, not something that can generally happen with a whirlwind trip. . . nor something to consider . . . in some countries. . . but you can certainly develop friendships.) Most profound thing I’ve seen in my small part in world travel is absolute affluency and poverty right next to each other.  (Hmm. . . seem to have that part between me and my rich neighbors also . . . wonder if I can borrow a Sage rod or a cup of sugar or something?  . . . something to check out . . . and I think those are cute doggies . . . big teeth . . probably just smiling alot ) Thanks for helping me reflect on the international part. . . and my ramblings. BestWishes, DaveMohnsen Denver ( have a soft part in my heart for most of the Thailand folks. . .but there are always a few in the other category . . . but YMMV)

Response:

Hi DT, You are very correct. I have fished from the tip of the MX Yucatan all the way to the end of Belize in about 20 trips and that is a very sad fact. Actually, the fishing guides are some of the most affluent people in the Caribbean. The smart ones buy property and build rentals that their wife runs while they guide tourists. Most of them actually just drink and smoke a lot more. I was on a small cay for a week out of Dangriga, Belize fishing at the Blue Horizon Lodge it’s first season. On the back side of the cay in the mangroves was a little shack and a little skinny family of  four and their skinny dog. They had an old boat that they were using to haul sacks of sand, coral and shells to backfill the new fishing camp for ~25 cents a sack. While we fished, they loaded sacks, stacked them on their old boat to almost sinking and brought them back to the camp where they poured them around the new cottages on stilts to bring up the new cleared land above sea level a bit. You can imagine the heat, humidity and bugs they endured, let along the idea of that hard of work. They were all very skinny and made me feel very sad. The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime. This kind of life is common in many 3rd world countries. Be glad you and yours are here in America. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

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But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

Response:

Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

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Question:

I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

Response:

I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc )

I *really* like the Cortland uniform sink lines in the "super-sink" rates. Excellent for dredging while maintaining some semblance of contact with the fly. 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish.

Whatever floats your boat. I have full sinkers for my 5 weight rods, 7 weight rods, and 9 weight rods. I rarely use anything larger than the 5 for fresh water, the heavier ones are mostly for the salt, and the occasional pike trip… /daytripper

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Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines.

George? Is dat you?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

Craig, I’ve had two full sink Cortlands and an SA.  They both perfomed as expected. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc )

depends on which sink-rate you are looking for.  fast sink or intermediate or somewhere in between.  besides the 2 companies you mention, if you have a local shop with rio lines give them a look, imo their selection of sinking lines blows away sa or cortland. 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish.

if most of your fishing is in lakes, i’d get the lines for the 5 wt. for lake fishing, look at one of the clear intermediate lines if a lot of your fishing is around the shallow margins of lakes. cb

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Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. —

Thanks all , for your help, even you rw — Craig Montreal, Quebec Canada

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Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. — Thanks all , for your help, even you rw — Craig Montreal, Quebec Canada

MrG. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html (shop site)   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

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I use Scientific Angler but the Cortland should be just as good.  I would suggest you use the larger rod.  Most of the fishing with weighted line is for trolling large streamers or for casting out large nymphs into deep lake waters…more suited to the larger rod.         Dan in Quebec

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

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Question:

Mike Connor writes: "Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands".

ROFL.  Woke up the dog!  Best esoterica and it immediately goes into the roff hall of shame.  Thanks, Mike. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waldo writes: Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

Yeah, and HE was immune from all the flying biters too.  Of course, this explains a lot about Peter’s truck… Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Blackflies are part of the northwoods experience and an indicator of the right time to go fishing: i.e., the thicker the flies (usually) the better the fishing. Deep-Woods Off (40 percent DEET) will keep them more or less at bay and do so about as well as the 100-percent DEET products like Repel or Ben’s, with less damage to you and your equipment. Here in Maine we pretty much slather it on all day in fly season, which for us lasts from around the last of May until mid-July in the Penobscot drainage. As you can see, avoiding fly season means avoiding fishing season. By time the flies are gone, so is the runoff water and many of the trout, at least the accessible ones. Some folks wear bug jackets with gloves, and these work pretty well with some restriction in mobility and vision; you can’t really follow your fly very well through a headnet. The better bug jackets are those made of tightly woven cotton with mesh panels at the front of the hood and under the arms for ventilation. The all-mesh jackets tear up pretty quickly in the puckerbrush and they don’t even slow mosquitoes down, as they can drill right through the mesh wherever it touches you. The secret to dealing with blackflies is not in eliminating the pain of their bites but in not minding the pain of their bites. After a while you get used to it. If you smoke, keep a cheap cigar or reeky pipe tobacco going as a smudge pot; after a while you’ll hardly notice the little buggers. JRB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

Works on moose apparently. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.

What’s a black fly? Peter (snicker) email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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"Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands". TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter

damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

Response:

I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits. The blackflies will usually be out that time of year in the earlier dusk, then it’s the mosquitos. The last couple of years they haven’t been all that bad. Good luck up there. Any questions on where to go in the area between Watertown and Lake Placid, let me know. I may even be able to set you up with a free guide of the area, or I may be in the area then myself. Just drop a line. Gordo The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

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 deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.

    why not demonstrate your altruistic nature and send a few patches to petah charles for application to his crotch somewhere around the third day out… wayno

Response:

I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits.

I am the pate de foie gras of the biting insect world, the lobster thermidor, the hollandaise sauce.  There is nothing in this world which will dissuade them from sampling me if the opportunity presents itself.  Black flies, mosquitos, deer flies, chiggers, horse flies, no-see-ums, and ticks will drink a pool of DEET if they think I am at the bottom of the pool.  Sadly, it seems to be a matter of individual body chemistry.  It makes no difference whether I am sterilized or wallowing in eight days of filth.  Copious clouds of cigarette smoke annoy them but will not keep them from biting. Thus far, deer flies are the only biting insects for which I have found an effective deterrent, and this is so bizarre that most people will probably not believe it.  I didn’t myself until I actually tried it.  Tred-Not deerfly patches are pieces of fly paper with a sticky side that is attached to the back of your hat, and a VERY sticky side that traps flies when they land on it.  For reasons unknown to me, deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.  These things are made by a company called Detex in Michigan.  I know they have a web site but I’ve lost the address.  However they are available at the following URL: http://www.biconet.com/traps/deerflyPatch.html

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Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken

the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

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I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

I spent a month one day in northern NH because of the black flies.  I have found that they peak early, usually in late May, early June.  There may be some around in late June, but if you use deet, they will stay away.  Puffing on a cigar will help, just puff away like your Clinton.  <g When I say "deet", I mean the 100% stuff.  It is baaaaad stuff, but it will keep them away.  Use in on your clothes, especially your hat, and use normal bug juice with a high concentrate of deet on exposed areas.  Do not expose your fly line or your fly rod to deet. I fish Labrador the 1st week in July each year, and black flies and mosquitos are as bad as anywhere.  Dress with long sleeves (a sweat shirt is good), or, a cotton turtle neck jersey is even better — it will protect your arms AND neck.  Wear fingerless gloves, and put them on after you have used the bug juice. Wear a hat and spray it well with deet.  I have found that bug jackets are inaffective with black flies.  They pile up on the front and after awhile, you can not see.  <g  But you *are* water proof.  d;0) Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

Last week in June is well into the decline of blackflies in the Adirondacks–in a normal year.  For the last couple summers it’s been harder to predict them, but everybody I know said they were not as bad as usual.  In 1997 I hiked across the whole park in late June, and the blackflies were barely around.  That was almost a bummer, because after a dozen mosquito bites, one gets nostalgic for a neckfull of blackfly welts. DS

Response:

Couple of things no one has mentioned black flies tend to bit more around areas that have a pulse wrists behind the ears ankles If you get Deet on nylon it’s shot it turns into sticky mess that doesn’t dry Rub dirt on your hands after putting on your bug spray Pick up some afterbite to take the sting away they come in containers a little bigger than a pen. Bring lots of friends they might find them more delicious

Response:

It keeps your sleeve ends closed !  Works on trousers too. Strip of Velcro is better, does not cut off the circulation. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

Response:

I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

The worst day I ever had with black flies was in 1975 in Franklin Landing were Great Bear River flows out of Great Bear Lake. There was no breeze to keep the flies down. Everywhere you looked you saw little black dots the white walls of the ship were black with flies one of the deckhands had to be taken by the hand to his room as his eyes had swollen shut from black fly bites. I put two sweaters on to try and add more distance between me and the flies they would burrow through the wool and still bite. I think I went through two or three cans of bug spray.I’ve been all over the North and that was hellish day. If it’s a dead calm day I would think twice about a hike through the bush.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: don’t wear anything blue. don’t use anything scented (soaps, etc) rubber bands around wrists. Where abouts are you planning on fishing. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists.

Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.

Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

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Dave writes-re: Blackflies I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered?

Yes. Prepare yourself with a pure-DEET type repellant, plus cigars and cigarettes keep them back a few feet. Despite all efforts, if out for a days fishing, expect to be bitten heavily. It’s worth noting, some of my best fishing for trout, both in PA and New England have been when blackflies were fierce….they are aquatic hatches as well.                           Tom Littleton

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Question:

Joe Fleischman sent it.  Joe sent the Fall Ball a little CARE package for the raffle.   I hope I get the "trio", and I will do my best to make sure the other one goes to the "appropriate" Clavester.  This is gonna be hysterical.   Thanks, Joe. Ya know, it just dawned on me, Joe:  I bet he *likes* it!! BWWWaaaaaahahahahahaha Dave L.

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Joe Fleischman sent it.  Joe sent the Fall Ball a little CARE package for the raffle.   I hope I get the "trio", and I will do my best to make sure the other one goes to the "appropriate" Clavester.  This is gonna be hysterical.   Thanks, Joe. Ya know, it just dawned on me, Joe:  I bet he *likes* it!! BWWWaaaaaahahahahahaha

Now that you posted it, it’s too late to make it a "duet".  <g   And I want pictures. TL, Joe

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Is there a pool for how many inches of rain will fall in the Smokies next week? — Charlie…

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Joe F: <<Now that you posted it, it’s too late to make it a "duet".  <g   And I want pictures. Shhhhhhhoooot!  Duet!  Why didn’t *I* think of that. Devious Dave

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Charlie Choc: <<Is there a pool for how many inches of rain will fall in the Smokies next week? No, but I will take the number 9. Dave

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Charlie Choc: <<Is there a pool for how many inches of rain will fall in the Smokies next week? No, but I will take the number 9.

I was going to pick 4 (for Forty<g). As long as there’s no lightning either Thursday or Friday so I can get across the lake to Hazel I’ll be happy. — Charlie…

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Can I get in on the Raffle, as a non attendee Tim Apple — The fishing is always good, It’s the catching that’s sometimes bad"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Fleischman sent it.  Joe sent the Fall Ball a little CARE package for the raffle.   I hope I get the "trio", and I will do my best to make sure the other one goes to the "appropriate" Clavester.  This is gonna be hysterical.   Thanks, Joe. Ya know, it just dawned on me, Joe:  I bet he *likes* it!! BWWWaaaaaahahahahahaha Dave L.

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How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. ; )  gol   (giggling out loud) basb (blowing a snot bubble)  gmak! (give me a kleenex!) : )))))))))))))   dme  (dabbing my eyes) Mr. G.

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How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. ; )  gol   (giggling out loud) basb (blowing a snot bubble)  gmak! (give me a kleenex!) : )))))))))))))   dme  (dabbing my eyes) Mr. G.

no need to donate george, thar will be plenty of scrap bamboo present waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gehrke writes: <<How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. You wouldn’t want to do that, George.  What the hell would you make your  bamboo rods out of.  I’ve seen a couple of them — they looked like they were made from scrap bamboo.  d;0)   Remember, George, you should not re-use numbers 6, 11, and 12.  Those were terrible.  Plus the others that have been returned.  What was your failure rate, George — 20%?     I sure am glad you aren’t building airplanes, George.   d;0)  ( < my hat on backwards, George.)  LOL LaCourse

LaCourse.  They would just prove how , biased, unthinking, wrong opinionated, ex-Navy, burnt out old foggie you really are. Those fly rods were beautiful   fly rods.  Just because you say they weren’t doesn’t make it so pal.  So go make a monkey out of yourself somewhere else.  I’m not your piece of meat.  I don’t think you will ever change, no matter what proof might reveal itself one day regarding your exaggerations.   Get a life LaCourse. Mr. G. http://www.gink.com/chat

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I have some of Mike’s Flies and they are the finest I have ever seen.  The person who gets them will have flies tied by a real master. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yet another truck stopped at my residence — this one a little white and blue one, stamped with U.S. Mail. There is going to be one joyful roffer at the Fall Ball.  Mike Connor’s package arrived safely.  It is a fly box with seventy (70!) flies.  I haven’t opened it – it has shrink-wrap-like material around it -, but I can see what looks like some Partridge and Orange and either a  Roayal Coachman or Royal Wulff.  Whoever wins this also gets a letter from Mike, with an appropriate poem, and it *is* suitable for framing. Mike has out-done himself again.  He is doing well and gives his warm regards to all of us. Dave L.

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Mike has out-done himself again.  He is doing well and gives his warm regards to all of us.

That sure beats the hell out of what I sent you.  :-)   Make sure my name is in the hat for that one! TL, Joe

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Yet another truck stopped at my residence — this one a little white and blue one, stamped with U.S. Mail.   There is going to be one joyful roffer at the Fall Ball.  Mike Connor’s package arrived safely.  It is a fly box with seventy (70!) flies.  I haven’t opened it – it has shrink-wrap-like material around it -, but I can see what looks like some Partridge and Orange and either a  Roayal Coachman or Royal Wulff.  Whoever wins this also gets a letter from Mike, with an appropriate poem, and it *is* suitable for framing. Mike has out-done himself again.  He is doing well and gives his warm regards to all of us. Dave L.

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Ernie Harrison: Ernie, I can’t filter anyone out.  My isp will allow it and provides for it, but *I* won’t do it.  I’ve never turned my back on anything, and I won’t now.  If George lies, I will reply.  If he shuts up, so will I.  I have asked him to take it to e-mail, but he will not. Believe me, I am not answering most of his posts.  Be well….. Dave L.

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George: <<No thank you LaCourse.  I would receive the same thing I did last year. nothing. That’s because you didn’t want it.  Waldo still has it.  He could easily send it to you.  Why don’t you ask him to?  d;0) LaCourse

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George: pieces.  You make much to do about nothing, as usual daytripper.  You really need to relax a little more. George, we were at peace.  Everything was going well, and then you start another fight.  When Tripper and I respond, you become incensed.  Change your underwear, Georgie.  I am sure the purple stains from eating so many sour grapes are now visible. LaCourse

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hold on now, ya’ll…us southern folks are quite fond of bamboo tomato stakes, and i’d be happy to receive the scrap bamboo.  BTW, i’m quite happy with my Happy Hooker Bastard rod, with whatever defects or flaws it might have…and, i’m planning on using it on Hazel Creek, and maybe even for whippin one of those damn horse’s into shape for the ride up the road to nowhere… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. You’re probably right: neither Dave nor I would bid one red cent, while others would be ASKING for money to toss the works in the dumpster… /daytripper

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Dave,    What you say is true,  but when you respond to his crap it comes through my filter and then I have a choice of filtering the subject or your name, neither of which I want to do.  I already have so many subjects filtered out my hard drive is filling up.  Why not just filter him out and we can both have some peace. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -George: pieces.  You make much to do about nothing, as usual daytripper.  You really need to relax a little more. George, we were at peace.  Everything was going well, and then you start another fight.  When Tripper and I respond, you become incensed.  Change your underwear, Georgie.  I am sure the purple stains from eating so many sour grapes are now visible. LaCourse

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Forgetfull Tim Apple writes:

<<Can I get in on the Raffle, as a non attendee <g  You already are, Tim.  d;0) Dave

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Gehrke writes:

<<How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. You wouldn’t want to do that, George.  What the hell would you make your  bamboo rods out of.  I’ve seen a couple of them — they looked like they were made from scrap bamboo.  d;0)   Remember, George, you should not re-use numbers 6, 11, and 12.  Those were terrible.  Plus the others that have been returned.  What was your failure rate, George — 20%?     I sure am glad you aren’t building airplanes, George.   d;0)  ( < my hat on backwards, George.)  LOL LaCourse

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Oh, forgot to add, George: It is a free raffle, no bidding.  Just a bunch of guys who wanna get together and fish and have a good time.  We all bring a little something and throw it in the pot and then Waldo draws names out of a hat.  We had a blast last May — oh, that’s right, you weren’t there, were you?  Hey, but you did win something in the "non- attendee" raffle.  You want I should add your name again this year, George.   d;0) LaCourse

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no need to donate george, thar will be plenty of scrap bamboo present waldo

; )

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How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders.

You’re probably right: neither Dave nor I would bid one red cent, while others would be ASKING for money to toss the works in the dumpster… /daytripper

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How about if I donate a 55 gallon drum of scrap Bamboo to the Clave’s raffle?  I’m sure daytripper and lacourse would be the highest bidders. You’re probably right: neither Dave nor I would bid one red cent, while others would be ASKING for money to toss the works in the dumpster… /daytripper

pieces.  You make much to do about nothing, as usual daytripper.  You really need to relax a little more. Mr. G.

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Oh, forgot to add, George: It is a free raffle, no bidding.  Just a bunch of guys who wanna get together and fish and have a good time.  We all bring a little something and throw it in the pot and then Waldo draws names out of a hat.  We had a blast last May — oh, that’s right, you weren’t there, were you?  Hey, but you did win something in the "non- attendee" raffle.  You want I should add your name again this year, George.   d;0) LaCourse

_______  No thank you LaCourse.  I would receive the same thing I did last year. nothing. Mr.G.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

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I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

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My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

Response:

I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

Response:

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

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What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-)

Like minds I guess, but I resisted.  Abacus.com has an add-on for MS Flight Simulator that follows her route.    It wasn’t/isn’t an easy flight. John J. Miller

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Question:

Joel, you are a man after my own heart.  About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies.   Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real

difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,

sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka

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 Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.

Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka  Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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<Bulk of excellent reply snipped  Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers.  Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? Tight lines, Steve Hering

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I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake.  A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post.  Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future.  Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time.  My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically.  (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet.  It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay.  (And getting that vise for free is cheating!).  If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.).  The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  ….  [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping? Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg

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– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom  Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

Response:

How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Initially, I thought that I would save some money.  And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies).  My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high.           I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing.  Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it.  Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly.  The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it.  It makes for some great conversation.   All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson

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Good point.  Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier.  Me too.  Gosh.  I guess I don’t feel so bad now! —                                                            -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!

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Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

Response:

I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive.  My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment.  I still have much of it today and still use it.  Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons

Response:

How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc-

Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Response:

In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.

You are the man, Ernie!  Do you give classes?

Response:

How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul

< 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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Question:

I am looking for information about good place to fly fish in vermont, does

Response:

Mr. Brigham, Is there a particular fish you prefer and any particular area of the state? James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

Response:

I am looking for information about good place to fly fish in vermont, does

Go to  book store and purchase "Fishing Vermont’s Streams and Lakes" by Peter F. Cammann.

Response:

Question:

Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John        John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Response:

Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hell in GA I’d skip the neoprene and go for the Gortex.  I would think that the heat would be more of a problem than the cold.  5mm are very very warm, Xmas of 95, I was in a river with 6" of ice and was comfortable.  They’d probably cook you in Dixie!!! jg

Response:

Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)?

I’ve been using 3mm Simms neoprenes for several years now.  They have remained warm and flexible.  Whatever brand you buy, spend a little more than you can afford. Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other?

Pinholes don’t seem to be the main problem, rather leaks at seams, especially when you do a lot of tubing in them. What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor.

3mm keep me good and warm, but early in the season I do wear some Thermax bibs.  During warm season a pair of light thermal pants or silks will help keep you from getting too clammy from sweat.  I got the thinner neoprenes because I figure I can always add extra insulation when it’s cold, but you can’t reduce the insulation of a 5mm wader when it’s hot. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Even in high summer tubing gets cold, because all the heat eventually gets leeched away, no matter what you’re wearing.  I find that I can last about 3-4 hours at a stretch in 50 degree water before I have to get out and warm up and take a leak.  Only problem I’ve had with neoprenes in my tube is some slight leaking as the seams stretch because I sit in the tube, and the slight chaffing on the upper thigh where the neoprene rubs against the material of the tube. Anglerboy

Response:

This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hi John, The 3 mil waders will do everything you want them to down to water temperatures of ~42.  Usually below 42 degrees I have to put some mid weight synthetic longs on underneath them.  Above that I use the lightweight synthetic longs to keep any moisture off my skin and keep it between my longs and the waders.  The 3 mil neoprenes will give you the flexibility  you want and the comfort while float tubing.  Take a llok at the Orvis Hi-back 3mil neoprenes ($225) or the bare bones version the Clearwater neoprenes ($98). If it is usually hot most of the time you are fishing, you should check out the breathable waders.  Orvis makes two models.  The No-Sweat wader for $305 which feature a brushed micro-fiber outer fabric, knee pads, and a floating heel (easier to fit various shoe sizes)on the neoprene foot.  They just came out this year with the Clearwater No-Sweat waders for $165.  They are made out of a tightly woven nylon outer fabric, have the standard type of neoprene foot and no knee pads.  Not quite as durable as the premium No-Sweats, but covered with the same guarantee (4 years) and about 1/2 the price of other breathable waders.  Keep in mind that the breathable waders offer no insulation of their own and they don’t stretch.  As long as you layer accordingly underneath for colder weather they are fine, and nothing is more comfortable on a hot day.                          Hope this helps,                                  Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John       John Carney         Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Hi John, The 3mm neoprene is the standard in the industry with 5mm being more durable, warmer and less flexible. For serious float-tubers, 5mm will hold up longer. Gor-Tex is coming on very strong, as this will be the year of the breathable Gor-Tex wader. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I have been fishing with Orvis Clearwater Gortex waders this year in Minnesota.  Yesterday I went out and it was 15 degrees.  I wore my waders with fleece pants and long underwear.  It was toasty.  In the summer I know they will be a thosand times more comfortable than the 2mm neoprenes I had before. Mike H

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To this thread specifically. I have used Body Glove 5mm’s for the last 8 years. Got some cheap Hodgman 3mm’s for Christmas.   Wished I’d of had the 5mm’s on saturday.  Toes got cold for the first time in 8 years.  They were dry, but cold. Summer heat, the 3s’ll be a godsend. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike

Hi Mike, I’m glad to see you get this club going again. You wouldn’t consider a tall, skinny old duffers who falls in the water a lot as a candidate for membership? Just kidding, Good luck. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Do the adjectives "short" and "fat" modify "cigar," or "flyfishers"? vince norris

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Al, Until your post, I was wondering what was supposed to be "short and fat" — the cigar or the flyfisher. DaveB

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Missed the beginning of this thread. Where do I go to sign up? Bob

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Hi: Well it could be both or either I guess. The intent is for us anglers that are short and fat in stature to gain recognition in the fly fishing market. The Cigar Smoking is just an added pleasure for those of us who partake in it. MMT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike Hi Mike, I’m glad to see you get this club going again. You wouldn’t consider a tall, skinny old duffers who falls in the water a lot as a candidate for membership? Just kidding, Good luck. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Your club is greta, though I’ll skip the cigars.  It is frustrating to try to find waders for someone 5′6" and 240 lbs.  However, you might considerthe fact that we are the final result of millions of years of evolution and that so-called "thin"people are merely, unlike us, "famine resistance challenged"!  Bill

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Not trying to be a smart a**, but try finding waders for 6′-6" 170# size 10 foot.  Most mfgs think that if you are 6-6, you should be 320 or so! One of these days I’ll find something in my size Steve Stillabower Indianapolis, IN

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Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). We have made contacts with various manufacturers that are willing to make extended sized clothing and equipment available to all us guys and GALS who have a short stature and look like a sparkplug. We even have a deal for preferred seating on two airlines so we and other passengers can feel more comfort on the flights. small, the advantages are great and heck lets get some recognition in this ever expanding market. Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike

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Question:

RE: Attractor patterns. We here in the east fish such great waters as the east branch of the croton river ( New York Suburbs) and the west branch of the delaware ( pennsylvania). These waters are so heavily fished that the trout usually will ignore everything you can throw at them that matches the hatch. When we see this happening, we usually tie on something like a parmachene belle, which is a gaudy silver, blue and red. Ive seen alot of wary rainbows fall for it when nothing else produces. Neil Ferri – New York — Neil Ferri New York

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello from Iowa-        Has anyone had experience, successful I may add, with attractor patterns such as Humpies, Trudes, any of the Wulffs, Woolly Buggers, Hare’s Ears, and the like, on trout found in such heavily hit waters as the Madison and especially the Henrys’ Fork of the Snake.  I’ve had limited success with ants and Royal Wulff’s (impressionistic of beetles I presume) on the Last Chance run on the Henrys’ and regular success with Montana Stones and the ubiquitous Elk Hair Caddis on the Madison.  Does this mirror others’ experiences on these waters or other waters of similar nature?  Are these trout truly as demanding as the mag writers make them out to be (spring creek trout notwithstanding)?        Second, it seems that while attractor patterns, especially dries and the Woolly Bugger, were in vogue several years ago (probably before my start), they have lost favor again to the small and prescise school of flies. Is this true and are my wishes to fish them going against some yuppy’s notion of true dry fly fishing?  I do love the take on an attractor pattern.                                                Tight Lines,                                                Ryan Maas P.S. Anyone passing through the Des Moines, Ames area in late spring…and willing to stoop to tackling bass? — Ryan Maas

I would agree that the Madison requires hatch matching more than any stream I know.  However, I have had luck on both the South Fork of the Snake and the Yellowstone River using a Royal Wulff during prehatch, and on days when nothing else seemed to work.  I love the Royal Wulff, and find that it is just what Lee Wulff said it was, a trout’s strawberry shortcake.  As far as other attactors, the South Fork had a spell (three or four years ago) when Double Renegades and variations on the Double R worked wonders during June. Several years ago, a video on the South Fork showed anglers slaying cuts on trudes.  I have never tried one there.  Hare’s ears work well on all of these waters, especially during the spring, and mostly for white fish.  But heh, when the trout wont hit, tight lines are tight lines. Finally, I know that creeks and smaller streams are not what you’re talking about, but attactors work incredibly well on the smaller streams, and if anyone sticks up his or her nose at your throwing a Royal Wulff on a famous river, just smile to yourself when that big brown slams it like there’s no tomorrow. GOOD LUCK!!

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Hello from Iowa-         Has anyone had experience, successful I may add, with attractor patterns such as Humpies, Trudes, any of the Wulffs, Woolly Buggers, Hare’s Ears, and the like, on trout found in such heavily hit waters as the Madison and especially the Henrys’ Fork of the Snake.  I’ve had limited success with ants and Royal Wulff’s (impressionistic of beetles I presume) on the Last Chance run on the Henrys’ and regular success with Montana Stones and the ubiquitous Elk Hair Caddis on the Madison.  Does this mirror others’ experiences on these waters or other waters of similar nature?  Are these trout truly as demanding as the mag writers make them out to be (spring creek trout notwithstanding)?         Second, it seems that while attractor patterns, especially dries and the Woolly Bugger, were in vogue several years ago (probably before my start), they have lost favor again to the small and prescise school of flies. Is this true and are my wishes to fish them going against some yuppy’s notion of true dry fly fishing?  I do love the take on an attractor pattern.                                                 Tight Lines,                                                 Ryan Maas P.S. Anyone passing through the Des Moines, Ames area in late spring…and willing to stoop to tackling bass? — Ryan Maas

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Sheeeoot yeah, attractors work on the rivers you mention.  Wulffs and trudes work great on the Madison, esp. in thhhe area between Hebgen and Quake Lakes (in my experience).  As a guide, working in and around Yellowstone Park, I use all those flies regularly. The hugest fish I hooked (and lost) last summer was on Nelson’s Spring Creek, and I hooked it on a (GASP!) Wooly Bugger dead-drifted past some weeds.  One day on the Lamar, my client caught 24 cutts on Grey and Royal Wulffs. . .in 2 hours. So don’t let any Nancy-Boy purists put down attractors.  While it’s true that hatch-matching works best when there is a hatch going on (f’rinstance, during the PMD hatches on the Lamar, no self-respecting cutt would look at a Wulff), there have been many times where some- thing big and ugly has turned a crappy day into something good. I’d rather fish a dry fly any day of the week, and I’ll often fish dry when others have given up.  However, when all else fails, buggerize them. Phil

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The three you inquire about are on my short list. The Royal Trude is perhaps my favorite dry fly,

I agree 100%, it is my #1 producer especially during caddis hatches!!! It’s only drawback is that it gets destroyed pretty easily after a few bruisers get their teeth into it.  Tie ‘em from #12 to #18.   Happy Trails,                                                Steve Jackson

                                         Quint McDonald                                          Hewlett Packard                                          Corvallis Oregon

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello from Iowa-         Has anyone had experience, successful I may add, with attractor patterns such as Humpies, Trudes, any of the Wulffs, Woolly Buggers, Hare’s Ears, and the like, on trout found in such heavily hit waters as the Madison and especially the Henrys’ Fork of the Snake.  I’ve had limited success with ants and Royal Wulff’s (impressionistic of beetles I presume) on the Last Chance run on the Henrys’ and regular success with Montana Stones and the ubiquitous Elk Hair Caddis on the Madison.  Does this mirror others’ experiences on these waters or other waters of similar nature?  Are these trout truly as demanding as the mag writers make them out to be (spring creek trout notwithstanding)?         Second, it seems that while attractor patterns, especially dries and the Woolly Bugger, were in vogue several years ago (probably before my start), they have lost favor again to the small and prescise school of flies. Is this true and are my wishes to fish them going against some yuppy’s notion of true dry fly fishing?  I do love the take on an attractor pattern.                                                 Tight Lines,                                                 Ryan Maas

Can’t speak for the Henrys’ Fork of the Snake, but trudes, humpies and wooly buggers are as productive and popular as ever here in Montana. Royal Trudes, yellow or red Humpies, and black, brown, or olive Wooly Buggers are on my don’t leave home without list.  These patterns work for most of the summer season but the attractors are especially effective during the hopper season from the end of July through August. Wooly Buggers are best fished as streamers (of-course) and early spring is best for rainbow and fall is best for browns. I fish the Madison, Yellowstone, and Gallatin most of the year (yes, even winter) and have come to count on a short list of proven patterns. The three you inquire about are on my short list. The Royal Trude is perhaps my favorite dry fly, right up there with a modified Adams that I tie with a bright shiny blue body. As for the trout IQ level of the big three streams above…  Depends on who you talk to. Certain areas of each river get alot of fishing pressure and there are days when nothing much is happening.  It is doublely satisfying when I can rise to the challenge and land a beautiful 17" brown from beneath a bridge that gets a daily mix of dogs, kids, winch and cable fishermen, and rafters.                                                 Happy Trails,                                                 Steve Jackson

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