Question:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband.

In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

In my case I paid for the setting and we used a stone she had (grandmothers, perhaps? I don’t recall and it doesn’t matter). I didn’t get the setting back; she never offered and I never asked because I didn’t want it. The setting was indeed a gift from me to her so I feel I have no claims on it. I would not have accepted it if she had offered it to me. My ring was a custom piece of jewelry we picked out together, though I paid for it so technically it wasn’t a gift from her. I gave it back to her without thinking twice about it. The fewer things I have in my life that remind me of her the better.

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..

EVERYTHING comes from da man, silly girl!    (If you don’t believe me, ask Andre or Ronnie44dd.   Whattas a matter with you, anyway)?    :-)

Response:

Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

If he is this bad, you can’t leave your children to his care, I know it is tempting to get revenge on him but think of your children, they will suffer more if you went to prison.  Get out, and get your children out.  There are organisations for abused wives, get one on your side and have them help you work this out. Mandy

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!! He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

The real abuse here is the abuse that you did to yourself by staying so long.  I hope you can learn to love yourself as much as you deserve. bogey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. – It may be a good idea to buy a cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the corner and when they come to the house, then go to the house. Tell the police you need them to watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the loan amount. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send them a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on the mortgage and ruin your credit. The Car ======= If you each have a car, take the one that you use the most. If you have one car between you, the working spouse will generally get the car. Should you buy a new one? Generally, no, unless you just purchased a brand new car in the past year. Calculate the net worth of the car will help you. Net worth=Value of the car (get it from Kelly Blue Book on the web) – any loan outstanding. Here’s an example. Car A: bought 2 years ago, valued at $15,000, loan left is $13,000, so net worth is $2000. Basically, you have $13,000 in loans to pay off. If you can’t afford it, get a used car worth less than $13,000, say around $7000. Try to make small payments. This will cause you to pay more interest over the life of the loan, but you really need the cash right now. Car B: bought 5 years ago, valued at $5000, no loan outstanding. Net worth is $5000. This is the best deal, since you have no car payment in this case. Car C: new car bought last year, valued at $24,000, loan left: $25,000, net worth=-$1000. Even though this has a net worth, you still have $25,000 left in loans to pay. This is a bad deal because if you sell the car you will still have to pay $1000 to cover the loan and you will not get any money back because it has a negative net worth. Your best bet is to get a $7000 car, pay the extra $1000. Insurance for the used car will be less than for the new car anyway. What will make you look good to the judge: – If you are fair to the other spouse. (Divide assets equally. Don’t take their favorite baseball card collection just to be mean.) – If you don’t hit them, threaten them or damage their property. – If you don’t show bizarre behavior (like damaging the other’s property) – If you keep the spouse informed, like when you cancel the credit cards. – Getting the kids out of a violent home. (You must have PROOF of this violence as a recording, or police report.) What will make you look bad: – Not going to counseling when the spouse does. – Being unfair. – Being angry in court. – If you have a serious illness, like cancer, it will really reduce your chances to get the kids. – If you have a serious illness, like depression, which is not being treated, you will have a lesser chance to get the kids. – Doing drugs. – Having a police record. – Being known as the "one who’s always screaming" by the neighbors. – Having boy/girlfriends before the divorce is final. – Trying to hide assets from the spouse. – Having an affair during the marriage. (Shows lack of commitment.) – Not being real involved with the kids. – If you don’t have a job. – If you have trouble holding a job. Abuse claims Filing a false abuse claim is now illegal in some states, and it is even enforced sometimes. Find out the status of false abuse claims, perhaps by calling the police department. — "Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST

ME!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Response:

"DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

IF your children want to stay in the house regardless of the fact that he is mean to you then something is wrong. IF you want to stay in the house regardless of what HE is doing to YOU then there is something VERY WRONG!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these! SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

Huh?  How can you even think this about the man you just previously described? I think *you* would be abusive by letting him near your kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe he is abusing his children by not being here

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

Response:

I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!!  He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

I can not understand why you take all that shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Once again, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "abuse": Main Entry: abuse      Pronunciation: &-’by

Question:

 I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the  ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all- around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal.

Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  

You could probably kill a tarpon with a 3wt, but I doubt you could lift it to the boat with a 3wt. Bigger fly rods have purpose other than delivering bigger files. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Bigger fly rods have purpose other than delivering bigger files. FWIW

Sounds like you may already own that ultimate rod RW was talking about. Does it deliver Chinese food and pizza as well? <g –Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the  ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all- around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

ehh? please allow me shuffle my feet and to clarify…. *if* I only had one rod available to me, *and* i wanted to fish many different situations, a 9′ 6wt would be my choice, lines down. that is the advise i received when i first started flyfishing down in FL and it, imo, was very good advise. it allowed me to fish in many different waters with very little monetary outlay. now that i own many different rods for different fishing situations, the 6wt is rarely used any more. however, it will be dusted-off very soon for chasin’ chromers. walt fellow expert in creating tailing loops and windknots otherwise up-to-my-knees-in-trout in God’s Country <g

Response:

8<…. if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  let me repeat that:  *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  of course, in the real world, that is a rare assumption. wayno

wayno, with all due respect, fighting a 100 pound tarpon "properly" would destroy a 3wt rod. i say "properly" in the context of releasing the fish unharmed in a timely manner so that the fish could live to return to his environment, "unchanged", or more aptly stated, "wild." the length of time it would take to land a 100 pound tarpon on a 3wt, imo, would kill the fish either by exhaustion or by shark attack. that said, if you had said "hook" vs "landed" i could have agreed with you….it would be possible to deliver a thinly-dressed streamer using a 3wt to a cruising tarpon. why anyone would choose to do so is dahlwhinnian…. to clarify, hitch a ride with zimbo tomorrow am and i’ll put you on a mountain-version "tarpon" with your 3wt. <g –kamloopy wataugan waldo — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight

and I have four (counting the mix & match East Branch) and it’s my most frequently used weight.  - diffferent folks, different strokes. (8′, 8′ 6", 9′ 6", & 10′6") Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks.  I’ve done several casting rods in the past, but this would be a first. Can anybody recommend a good blank to use – expense isn’t really a factor, so any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks.

Response:

I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use …

You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use … You’ll have to tell us more about yucks.

He is my evil twin.      :)

Response:

I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use … You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. He is my evil twin.      :)

Ah, so you want to build a rod capable of tossing a bottle of scotch 60 feet and landing a 185 lb twin. Definitely a 12wt. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

He is my evil twin.

Oh shit, not another one of those!   <g For a cheap intro to rod building, I’d still stay away from anything too crummy.   After all, when you’re done, you do want to be proud of it and fish with it.   My first few rods were built on higher end St. Croix blanks. Well below $100 each.   I also just started on one that’s a discontinued Loomis blank (IM6) I bought off Ebay for about 40 bucks.   There are also some dealers out there who have a supply of discontinued blanks.   D&E Rods (www.danderods.com) is one.   I have a nice 3 wt. Loomis IMX blank from them awaiting my attention (don’t remember that price, but it was cheap enough that I bought a blank I don’t need.) Either way you go, I recommend a decent blank.   The hardware cost and time invested are too much to put it into a practice stick.   Even if you screw it up cosmetically, it will still fish well (I have one or two that fit that category.) Joe F.

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The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks.  I’ve done several casting rods in the past, but this would be a first. Can anybody recommend a good blank to use – expense isn’t really a factor, so any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks.

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If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

See below.  I’ve already got a 3 pce Diamondback 6 wt. with a Hardy reel but who knows, I might need a spare some day. $10.00 ?  <g Peter

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Good for you. There are whores, and there are whores.  The main thing is to make sure you live happy, and if possible die in the same condition. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de Yes, I’m a whore. My first fly rod, a Martin 6wt with matching martin 6 wt

<SNIP

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You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod.

        i don’t know what the hell this has to do with anything, or whether it makes any difference to anyone who might read this sort of thing (what *are* we doing discussing fly rods on roff, anyway?), but in my damn near fifty years of fishing with a fly rod, i have never owned a 6 weight rod.  in fact, i have never cast a heavier line than a 5 for trout, even when we girded our loins for the fabled big water and high winds of montana.  i think the issue is almost completely controlled by the question of what the size and weight of the fly might be.  if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  let me repeat that:  *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  of course, in the real world, that is a rare assumption. wayno

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You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal.

Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod. I say buy two rods. A 7′6" 3wt for trout and (if you must) a 9′ 7wt for bass. If cost is an issue then buy two inexpensive rods. If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod. I say buy two rods. A 7′6" 3wt for trout and (if you must) a 9′ 7wt for bass. If cost is an issue then buy two inexpensive rods. If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

Yes, I’m a whore. My first fly rod, a Martin 6wt with matching martin 6 wt reel, was last used catching a steelie here in NC. It was first used catching bass on watermelon pond and it has also been used catching more species than any other rod in my inventory. Reminiscing, it has caught largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, suwanee bass, sunshine bass, peacock bass, many varieties of panfish, specs, redfish, black drum, snook, trout, stripers, weakfish, bonefish, gar, pickerel, barracuda, shad, tarpon, cobia (damn near lost it on that bad boy), mackeral, crevalles, ladyfish, and of course, that gorgeous chromer last winter in the company of that fine southern gentleman, Tom Brown. The butt of this rod  is still used daily as I use it as a reel "holder" when I manually load reels for sale. This rod is as much a part of me as my soul, as a matter of fact, blasphemously, one could say it is part and parcel of my soul. but i digress. my affliction spread like the plague. i acquired numerous rods and reels to fit certain needs, some psychological. although i suck at it, i even took up tying flies. i still was far from being satiated….. so, i opened a "flyshop". i now have more gawdang gear than any sane person should be allowed to possess. hundreds of reels and of rods, seemingly, enough line, leader & tippet to circumvent the earth. yet, be still, the fire burns hotter. my fervant desire now, as all invoices are paid, is to retire with all of this cool stuff. mine, all mine <g i, waldo, am a whore. ww — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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 I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either.

You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. –walt Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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[snip] All good advice and I’ll add just one little bit more.  You can get away with a 7 or 8 wt. for small fish if you can find a short, slow action version and build it with a standard trout handle.  I lucked into an old 8′ 6" Orvis Green Mountain with a slow – moderate action and a small handle (no fighting butt.)  I’d have no difficulty using it for anything.  I’ve caught smallies under a pound that put a decent bend in it yet it’ll toss a 2/0 streamer about 80′.  I’ve tried a Fenwick HMGF 8′6" 7 wt. that also impressed me as a good all-round rod. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ken wrote snip:Like I said, it’s a tough call, maybe some of the other warmwater guys in the group can recommend one and only one blank for both bluegill & bass but I’m afraid you have me stumped.

I think Ken is correct. I love my little 3 weight rods for bluegill and I take my fair share of bass on them, but they are all small bass. I don’t think I have landed a bass of over 3 pounds on one of them. There is no way in hell I can use a 3 weight to cast the flies that work best for large bass with a rod that small. I most often use  a 7 to 10 weight rod when I am fishing for sizable bass.  I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. Big Dale

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RE choose a rod blank for "pan fish to bass?" Sandy’s treatise on blank choosing with an angle: A 6-weight rod is generally considered the most versatile trout rod. With a 6-weight you can cast anything from an itty-bitty mayfly on a 7x tippet to a #2 woolly bugger on 0x tippet. But if you want to cast pike flies, bass worms or extra-bushy bass poppers, you will probably want a 7 or 8 weight rod. I like 9′ rods. But some people think they have more control over shorter (8′) rods. Once you have the size down, you still have to zero in on cost and action. Some guys (actually) like soft, slow action rods, like many built by Orvis, Winston or Powell. Slow action rods are easier to cast, more graceful to use. But they don’t handle heavy flies, wind or distance casting very well. Orvis, Winston and Powell make some moderately fast rods too. The fastest, most powerful casting canons I know of are made by Sage and Loomis. Someone told me Scott makes a powerful rod, but I never tried one. Cost? The most expensive rods are the best. But how much better are they? Not a whole lot, I don’t think. I have some fly rods that cost almost $600 bucks. They’re damn good rods. But I have a few (Sage, Loomis and Cabelas) that (for finished rods) cost $180 to $220. And they’re damned good rods too. Who makes Cabelas blanks anyway? It’s Loomis isn’t it? There are some really cheap graphite fly rods showing up now, like those made by Eagle Claw. Has anybody tried those? If you like soft, slow action rods, I can’t see any reason to buy an expensive one. What you get–with more money–is casting power. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh   –O0  * http://cns.montana.edu/~sandy/  */

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That’s a tough prescription to fill, Tom. I like a 3wt for bluegill and a 7wt for bass. Logically then a 5wt would be your blank of choice but I don’t think you’d be happy with it in either situation. Not that it wouldn’t work, I used an old 8′ Garcia Conolon 7/8wt for years as my one and only flyrod for bass & bluegill in the days before I knew any better and I caught a lot of fish and had great time with it. The other consideration besides rod weight is action. I like a slow action for most situations, my canoe bluegill rod is a 9′ Winston 3wt, but for tossin’ big, wind eatin’ bass bugs a faster action works better for me, something along the lines of the discontinued Sage RPL series. Like I said, it’s a tough call, maybe some of the other warmwater guys in the group can recommend one and only one blank for both bluegill & bass but I’m afraid you have me stumped. — Ken Fortenberry

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Yucks,  slang, corruption of middle English, German Jux. =For fun TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. — Ken Fortenberry

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The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance.

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In which case, I at least, am unable to help much. I have never fished for such species. Someone else will doubtless be able to help you with regard to weight length etc. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance.

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Question:

Happy 99 is an apparently harmless but annoying Trojan, similar to a virus but it doesn’t duplicate itself.  What it does do is duplicate itself every time you send an email or newsgroup message. Below are instructions to remove it. Check Windowssystem for the presence of these files. 1. SKA.EXE 2. SKA.DLL 3. WSOCK32.SKA If you find them you have been attacked by Happy 99.  To remove them manually.   1. Delete SKA.EXE,SKA.DLL and WSOCK32.DLL 2. Rename WSOCK32.SKA as WSOCK32.DLL Make sure WSOCK32.SKA is present before deleting WSOCK32.DLL You may need to restart in safe mode to gain access to WSOCK32.DLL.

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If we are going to vacation in Marbella, Spain and could land in Malaga or Gibraltar.  It is $200 less to fly into Gibraltar rather than Malaga and seems to be the same distance to Marbella from either airport.   Can you give me any other good reasons to chose one over the other. Rich Parker

 I would choose Malaga cos of the hold-ups in Gib.  However, if u dont hv a car in Gib, just walk over the border to La Linea, you can catch a bus, so you should not have the same Spanish customs border problems. Sue

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the train from the airport to Tormolenous (dont think that is spelt

right) Torremolinos,but the train continues to Fuengirola,better to change there.            L.P – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Happy99 is a virus! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                   Name: Happy99.exe    Happy99.exe    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)               Encoding: x-uuencode

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Thank you all for the great first hand input.  Just what I wanted.  I will have to search for the charter flights now between London and Malaga. Rich Parker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If we are going to vacation in Marbella, Spain and could land in Malaga or Gibraltar.  It is $200 less to fly into Gibraltar rather than Malaga and seems to be the same distance to Marbella from either airport.   Can you give me any other good reasons to chose one over the other. Rich Parker

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You may possibly be able to walk across and get transport the other side.

Only a few minutes walk through the border to La Linea where local buses can take you to Algeciras ,from where frequent buses depart for Marbella. A little trouble but possibly woth

Question:

Hi all, I may be taking a trip to Jamaica in the late winter and was wondering if there was any good flyshing there.  Anyone have any thoughts? laird v

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no body in jamaica knows it, but the island is surrounded by narrow flats seperatedf rom the ocean by reef not that far from the "beach". There are tons of rivers emptying into the ocean as well. I think its an undiscovered opportunity to check out and i know there are tarpon around. of course, it depends on where you’re going

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Question:

I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?       i live in greensboro, stephen; give me a call when you will, and i will supply the necessary information about trout locations.       a. wayne harrison       336-275-1231

Hi Wayne, I though this posting would get you moving:-) Give him a welcome with some choice Welsh phrases try Croeso (Croyso)- it means Welcome. Keep the other phrases in reserve for emergencies. Regards, — Bill

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says… I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

– Stephen, Contrary to popular belief, thar’s no trout in NC. Nada, zippo, nonewhatsoever…. ok, now that I’ve told my fib, give Wayne (previous msg.) a call and maybe drag his butt up here also. Plenty of streams with trout, even some over 6" (ref: s. cooper). I’ll be happy to share some info with you, just e-mail when you’re settled in. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

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I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

        i live in greensboro, stephen; give me a call when you will, and i will supply the necessary information about trout locations.         a. wayne harrison         336-275-1231

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Question:

it was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave.

But Ralph….. If you leave, haven’t they just accomplished what they set out to do? I know that discretion is the better part of valour and he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day, but dammit there are times when you just gotta say "I was here first" (it works for the natives) With one above and one below I think I’d just camp there for a while. If they really are fishing buddies, its gonna cramp their style to have me in between them and that’s just what I’d do! Tough Sh*t if they don’t like it

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200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ?

Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

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P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.

Right. I grew up fishing small streams, and I’ve never gotten over the notion that "real" fly fishing is conducted in the quiet ofwilderness and the company of one or two like-minded friends. I also believe that the best fishing is usually found right between your ears and not in some exotic, faraway place on a map. Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

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It is annoying when you are on a lake as big as Yellowstone and some guy driving by sees you catch a fish and the next thing you know you are standing in a crowd of fishermen. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

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t was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave.

Sometimes I wonder, when I’m in this situation. Maybe if I were to just be a clumsy, noisy fisherman for a while, put all the fish down, then *they* would leave. It might take a while for the pool to settle out again, but it might be worth it. FlyFisherRay

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t was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave. Sometimes I wonder, when I’m in this situation. Maybe if I were to just be a clumsy, noisy fisherman for a while, put all the fish down, then *they* would leave. It might take a while for the pool to settle out again, but it might be worth it. FlyFisherRay

now I like that! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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First, there is no such thing as Western etiquette… The South prety much controls the market on regional etiquette (although there it’s known as "hospitality"). Second, if there was such a thing as Western etiquette, the first rule would be: If you’re in a float tube, and you’re (justly or unjustly) rebuffed by a bank fisherman, politely smile and quickly move on. You’ve no idea what he’s got back in his pickup, and you’re worse than a sitting duck, so you don’t want to escalate the conflict. Glad to see you followed rule #1. -chuck o. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

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Pretty hard to say where this etiquette originated.  This time of year you won’t find many locals fishing the popular tourist places.  In August on Yellowstone Lake, the fisherman in question could have been from damn near any place on the planet. Da? Parochially Yours, Don Kelly Butte, MT

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And of course you assumed he was a "Westerner" ???? A true Westerner would not have called you a bad name – he might just have pulled out his gun and let you have it . A transplanted Pennsyltuckian. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

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Hell – at that distance you would have trouble figuring out which one of my "Western" fingers I was showing you. My rule of thumb – I assume you got a heavy surf rod and 3 ounces of lead. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

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How about boaters/rafters giving a wide berth to waders? I think that is fairly common Western etiquette. It comes to mind because last year I was wading downstream while nymphing on the Big Hole. A guy and his girl float down right next to me, then pull in not 100 ft. below. I was incensed. I said: "can’t you see I’m heading downstream." They call *me* an asshole and then move on. -CB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First, there is no such thing as Western etiquette… The South prety much controls the market on regional etiquette (although there it’s known as "hospitality"). Second, if there was such a thing as Western etiquette, the first rule would be: If you’re in a float tube, and you’re (justly or unjustly) rebuffed by a bank fisherman, politely smile and quickly move on. You’ve no idea what he’s got back in his pickup, and you’re worse than a sitting duck, so you don’t want to escalate the conflict.

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Hey I’m from Wyoming, and the last place you’ll find me is where all them damn tourists who drive 2000 miles to fish some of the published waters in the state. Seems to me that since they drove all that way, they own the water, Well, I’ll just let them have it. I’ll go where the good fishing is and avoid the crowds, the hassel and the small fish.  And yes, my friend avoid the big waters too, makes more since to go for big fish, Don’t ask, I’m not telling

Response:

I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.   The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.  

Response:

Given that Yellowstone is the "magnet" that it is for fishermen, it may be an incorrect assumption that these were "Westerners" you were fishing with/against  =) ….. after all, you were from the "East", right???? 8^) It seems that the "bigger" the water) in name and reputation, the bigger the head of the people fishing it… it’s sort of the "Well, dammit…I came x hundred/thousand miles to fish this water and I’m gonna do as I DAMN WELL PLEASE" so, in the middle of the summer…you can expect some of this. As for the scenery to size ratio….personally, I’d take Wyoming over Pennsylvania ANY DAY!! Now, if you wanna REALLY experience some Western Streamside lack of hospitality…try gettin into a Steelhead or Salmon run in California when the bait and metal fishers are out……say on the American or Feather Rivers….maybe the Lower Sacramento or Klamath…..your choice!! Larry #:)#

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette. Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.   The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?    - Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat, I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.   </PRE</HTML

The guys 100′ up and 100′ down were a little close.  Given the crowded condition of Yellowstone, this time of year, you just have to put up with it. Personally I would enter 200-250 yards up or down from another fellow fisher.  The guy that called you an asshole on the lake was the asshole.  200′ away – what was he using for a fishing rig – a cannon? If you want a great Yellowstone experiance – plan to go 2 weeks after Labor Day.  The crowds are reduced by more than half. The fishing pressure is greatly reduced. The traveling around is twice as fast.  You might run into some rough weather but the fishing, in the park,  is great in bad weather. Joel Axelrad

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I knew a Steelhead fisherman that painted an X on a rock and would get so mad when he found someone standing on it that he started taking it home. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given that Yellowstone is the "magnet" that it is for fishermen, it may be an incorrect assumption that these were "Westerners" you were fishing with/against  =) ….. after all, you were from the "East", right???? 8^) It seems that the "bigger" the water) in name and reputation, the bigger the head of the people fishing it… it’s sort of the "Well, dammit…I came x hundred/thousand miles to fish this water and I’m gonna do as I DAMN WELL PLEASE" so, in the middle of the summer…you can expect some of this. As for the scenery to size ratio….personally, I’d take Wyoming over Pennsylvania ANY DAY!! Now, if you wanna REALLY experience some Western Streamside lack of hospitality…try gettin into a Steelhead or Salmon run in California when the bait and metal fishers are out……say on the American or Feather Rivers….maybe the Lower Sacramento or Klamath…..your choice!! Larry #:)#

Response:

I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?

 Very ignorant, but then he probably felt safe at this distance! — Bill

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When fishing any of the popularcrowdedfamous waters in the West, you’re sure to run into A**H****.  Fly fishing is not a social or team sport and there are no rules or "etiquette" (whatever that is). Ob these pubilicized waters, it often more like going to a Mall on dollar day and trying to fight the crowds for a "bargain." This is ONE of the reasons I personally avoid these waters. The West has alot of lesser known rivers and streams that provide some great fishing away from the crowds. However, these waters are getting harder and harder to find and most are kept "secret."  (See post about To Tell Or Not To Tell) These are very hard to find when travelling unless you do some homework before you go. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

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I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this? Very ignorant, but then he probably felt safe at this distance!

Very good point Bill… offensiveness is so often directly proportional to distance or percieved invulnerability.  Witness the sad characters who use terms such as ‘pig-headed twit’, ‘eat sh.. and die’ etc in what is supposed to be a sociable forum such as this.  One wonders if they would use the same school-yard insults face to face?  Probably not, as a hearty smack in the mouth can be pretty offensive too, in its own way. We can be nasty little characters, safely closeted away with our computers, or at the other side of a raging river.  Schoolboys even make faces at gigantic ’silverback’ male gorillas – from the other side of the bars, of course. Just the opinion of this birtish ninny. — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘warboyz’ to reply by e-mail)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very good point Bill… offensiveness is so often directly proportional to distance or percieved invulnerability.  Witness the sad characters who use terms such as ‘pig-headed twit’, ‘eat sh.. and die’ etc in what is supposed to be a sociable forum such as this.  One wonders if they would use the same school-yard insults face to face?  Probably not, as a hearty smack in the mouth can be pretty offensive too, in its own way. We can be nasty little characters, safely closeted away with our computers, or at the other side of a raging river.  Schoolboys even make faces at gigantic ’silverback’ male gorillas – from the other side of the bars, of course. Just the opinion of this birtish ninny. — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘warboyz’ to reply by e-mail)

Thanks for some back-up Stuart. Hey, us birtish ninnies have to stick together! No, seriously though, it just isn’t worth the effort. Ever fish Bewl? Aye, Tony

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Here in New York State, we have some of the most reprehensible streamside behavior there is on the Salmon River.  Enormous crowds will snag fish, litter, blare radios, cut in on spots or even individual fish, pick fistfights or even exchange gunfire.  It is a world class fishery swarmed by bottom class humanity. Let the occasional insult just roll right off you.  It could be far worse. Pete C

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I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette. Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.

it was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?

the accepted protocol is don’t come  any closer than 2 maximum cast lengths or about 150 feet (give or take) – so the fella’ in question was likely suffering from a mild case of caffine poisoning. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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[deleted] The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.

[deleted] 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Was it clear ? You probably *did* spook his fishing to some degree….was it necessary to pass that close ?  Why ?  Remember, this guy was on vacation too man. But, you asked…is there a western ettiquette ? If there is one, it would have to be that we haven’t quite given in to the notion of fishing in a crowd. What seems like a lot of room to you is ‘butt-buddy’ close out here.  Like I said…Lake Yellowstone is HUGE (how many miles of shoreline…? How many anglers on the shore ?) You come flippin through within a couple of hundred feet and it ‘feels’ like you’re crawling up ‘em. And then there *is* the current politics.  Many bait and lure anglers out here feel (VERY JUSTIFIED IMO) that the flyfishing/float tubing/Orvis Wearing/Jeep Driving/Catch and Release Angling contingent is the bassmaster ruination of the sport (Western Flyfishing).  These guys just took it out on you. There it is.  Unabashed support for the shore angler and a Western etiquette. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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I knew a Steelhead fisherman that painted an X on a rock and would get so mad when he found someone standing on it that he started taking it home.

at least he knew what mattered most to him … or perhaps he wanted to cook up a good "Stone Soup"? Is there a bridge here between the endless c&r c&k dialectic? Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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My rule of thumb: if possible, Two of my casts plus one of his casts distance between me and him. Using this rule, you would both have to cast 60 – 70 feet. Not likely. FlyFisherRay

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Question:

I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different.   Thanks, Terry

Response:

I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.

        royal wulff, adams wulff (called a "thunderhead" in n.c.) and some dark bodied elk hair caddis.  all in size 12-16.  hare’s ear and squirrell tail nymphs, size 12.  that’s it.  now pretend you’re an otter hunting fish.  upstream, quietly and slowly.         a. wayne harrison

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I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different.   Thanks, Terry

– Hi Terry, Good luck with your adventure. For early spring dries you will need some: fly…                size Elk Hair Caddises    12-16 Blue-Wing Olives     16-18 Adams parachutes     12-16 March Brown          12-14 for nymphs: tellicos             12-14 bead head hares ear  12-14 pheasent tail        12-14 and for wets working downstream: wooly bugger         6-10 soft-hackled wets    12-14               you can use the soft-hackled wets as a dropper behind the other flies if you choose to. Also, the smaller the tippet you use the more success you will have with the dry flies. The fish should be actively feeding but they will scatter and hide at the smallest disturbance, including a leader splash. Be smooth and gentle with your presentation and you should do just fine. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve rented a cabin on the back of Hiwassee river near Murphy for the first week in April, and would like to know what kind of flies are recommended for that area that time of year.  I’ve only fly fished saltwater in Florida, so I’m really looking forward to something new and different. Thanks, Terry — Hi Terry, Good luck with your adventure. For early spring dries you will need some: fly…                size Elk Hair Caddises    12-16 Blue-Wing Olives     16-18 Adams parachutes     12-16 March Brown          12-14 for nymphs: tellicos             12-14 bead head hares ear  12-14 pheasent tail        12-14 and for wets working downstream: wooly bugger         6-10 soft-hackled wets    12-14 you can use the soft-hackled wets as a dropper behind the other flies if you choose to. Also, the smaller the tippet you use the more success you will have with the dry flies. The fish should be actively feeding but they will scatter and hide at the smallest disturbance, including a leader splash. Be smooth and gentle with your presentation and you should do just fine. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

    Hi Walter        I saw by one of the other sites that the non-resident NC license went to $30.00, TRUE ?                                                        John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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   Hi Walter       I saw by one of the other sites that the non-resident NC license went to $30.00, TRUE ?                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

Hi John, I’m not sure what a day/3 day/or week license costs but a non-resident year license costs $40.00. –Walt — The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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Question:

Does anyone know of any newsgroups relating to Oregon’s fly fishing?

Response:

Hi Leif:  Iive in Clackamas and read this newsgroup pretty regularily and occaisionally post a note here.  What,s wrong with this group?

Response:

Does anyone know of any newsgroups relating to Oregon’s fly fishing?

Don’t know of any specifically for Oregon but recently joined an International news group called "The Fly Fishing List". It is excellent. Some folks from The West on it. There are lots of sites on the Net from Oregon that offer loads of info such as The Virtual Flyshop at www.flyshop.com They even have a chat room. Many others also. I’m sure a search would turn up more web sites than you’d ever want to peruse. The Gorge Fly Shop has a site I recall also. Anyone can start a news group I understand, but apparently it is quite a *chore*. Good Luck!

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Question:

I am spending a week in the Jackson Tenn. area.  Anyone know of any good flyfishing to be had within an hours drive? Thanks for your reply.   Dee

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I don’t really know of anything near Jackson, however if you are willing to drive about 6 hours you can fish some of the finest fly fishing waters in the world in NorthEast Tennessee.   The tailwaters of the S. Holston has been rated in the top ten trout streams in the nation, and if you are looking for the mountain stream experience the Doe Creek which runs through Roan Mountain State Park is great.  Also Laurel Fork, etc.  There are also some great spots in the Smoky’s, but I have never fished them. If you want to come up here, I can guide you or I can recommend a guide. Joe Byrd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am spending a week in the Jackson Tenn. area.  Anyone know of any good flyfishing to be had within an hours drive? Thanks for your reply.   Dee

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You are closer to the White River area of Arkansas than East Tenessee. Call Gaston’s near Mountain Home Ark. or Ozark Anglers in Heber Springs, Ark.If you want to fish for small mouth try Buffalo River near Flatwoods Tn. Its about 1 hour southeast of Jackson. Try and find a book, Home Waters, written by the Mid -South Flyfishers of Memphis, Tn. It gives you good advice about the Ark. area and also about Buffalo River in Tn. Best wishes. Jack.

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One hour east of Nashville is the Caney Fork River.  It has fished excellent this year.  The Caney is a tailwater.  One to two hours south of Nashville are the Elk and the Duck rivers.  They are both excellent tailwaters.  Closer to you is the Little Buffallo River.  It has a section of trout water, but I have not fished it.  Lots of smallmouth and largemouth water all over middle Tennessee.   Some of the colder smallmouth streams are stocked with trout in the spring.  Maybe some summer survivors. Maybe this will help. If you decide on a tailwater in Tennessee, please-please, call the TVA generation schedule for that particular dam.  1-800-238-2264 and follow their instructions.  The generation schedules have been pretty good for the three tailwaters I listed.  Sometimes. Michael

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Question:

I received a catalog in the mail from Angler’s Covey today…(since I’m VERY new to FFing, I’m not able to evaluate it…) The humorous part of it is, they had a note attached that said something to the effect of "Due to the overwhelming response for our 1995 catalog, we can only supply you with a prior year catalog…call for updated prices." It was a 1993 catalog…I wonder if the info on this group had anything to do with it?  :) Fish on!, JC Angler’s Covey, Inc. 917 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado, Springs, CO. 80905 719-471-2984 800-753-4746 mail order Full service shop with anything you might need, including; gear, tackle, advice, guides, classes, etc.  Nice, knowledgable folks.  Mention my name.  It shouldn’t run the prices up too much. Bryan

<snipped tag

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No One mentioned my favorites in Denver The Complete Angler – Arapahoe Road & I-25 in Englewood Co (Denver Sub) Pricey but knowledge is abundant. Only First Class Stuff. All Pro Fish N’ Sport 6221 S. Sante Fe Littleton Co. 80120 Bigger selection harder to find Mike Peters —- Fishing, Camping, MWC, Home office, Colorado, Micrographics, Computers, Electronics, TV/VCR/Audio repair.

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try the Front Range Angler in Boulder-great shop with great selection of flies/ equipment

: I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens

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I’ve had great luck with the St. Vrain Angler in Longmont (303) 776-5228.   There’s another posting I just saw that gave the number a CO angling info line and for the Estes Angler (303) 586-2110, owned by the same guy. Both truly full service shops, guides are good teachers.  

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You asked I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in

Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dale Owens ****** Two good shops Front Range Angler — Boulder [303] 494-1375 Angler’s All — Littleton [303] 794-1104 Joe Lhotka Colorado USA

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I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dale Owens

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I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Saint Peter’s Fly in Fort Collins (303-498-8968) are a professional and friendly, congenial bunch of folks.  Another good one is in Longmont on 4th street, but I forget the name. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens Angler’s Covey, Inc. 917 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado, Springs, CO. 80905 719-471-2984 800-753-4746 mail order Full service shop with anything you might need, including; gear, tackle, advice, guides, classes, etc.  Nice, knowledgable folks.  Mention my name.  It shouldn’t run the prices up too much. Bryan Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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try the Front Range Angler in Boulder-great shop with great selection of flies/ equipment : I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens

ANGLER’S COVEY ON WEST COLORADO STREET (what else?) IN COLORADO SPRINGS. GOOD PEOPLE.  KNOWLEDGEABLE.  FRIENDLY.  COOPERATIVE.  (Orvis Shop, so it can be pricey, but what the heck – you can’t have everything). This flatland furriner stops there everytime I make my annual pilgrimage to the South Platte. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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