Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re missing something. A float tube in many states is considered a boat. And CG regulations require you to have a personal flotation device handy on the boat. When float tubes go bad, they often dont’ just leak a little, they deflate quickly. Every year it seems, at least one person dies because his float tube deflates and he/she panics and gets stuck getting out of it or can not swim. Or back home in the southeast, float tubes are a favorite way to fish the tailwaters, and it is not difficult to get careless and upended on moving waters, especially during unscheduled releases.. As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface. Wayne Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it?

Wayne makes some additional good points r.w. George

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

You’re missing something.

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble.

Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Anyhow r.w. I bought a couple of those minature, under the vest life-vests and I don’t go wading in water over my head without one on.

        it’s statements like that one that make me question whether or not we could exist without you, george.         really, though, i thought you could simply walk on top of water over your head. wayno

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g

Won’t be necessary.  The little ball inside the whistle is made from cork. Given the well known crowding on Yellowstone waters, it should be obvious that a single toot on the whistle would cause everyone in the immediate area to hurl his or her own whistle at the poor unfortunate, thus providing enough little cork balls to float even the densest ROFFian until the appropriate rescue personnel arrive on the scene. Wolfgang ya gotta love that sense of selfless cooperation

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g Won’t be necessary.  The little ball inside the whistle is made from cork. Given the well known crowding on Yellowstone waters, it should be obvious that a single toot on the whistle would cause everyone in the immediate area to hurl his or her own whistle at the poor unfortunate, thus providing enough little cork balls to float even the densest ROFFian until the appropriate rescue personnel arrive on the scene. Wolfgang ya gotta love that sense of selfless cooperation

Some people have been known to drown, while others were wetting their whistles. TL MC

Response:

As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface.

…so your next of kin can claim the body before it gets all yucky.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g

Man, have you guys got the wrong theory on this…pull the cork, drink the wine, put the cork back in the bottle, and then toss him both. You’d not need anywhere near 100 – I’d bet that the cork AND the bottle offer more flotation than just the cork, and that way, everyone is happy…. TC, R

Response:

rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it?

I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk. I recommend one of the auto inflatable life vests as a back up…they have a little ‘panic’ cord that causes the vest to inflate immediatly from a CO2 cartridge.  I understand they have these in models that are basically like suspenders until you need them.  I’m not sure how bulky these are.  Personally, I use an auto inflatable that packs nicely into a pouch approx 10"x6"x2" that easily fits into one of the large storage pockets on my tube.  I would strongly recommend such a device to anyone, especially those who still use a donut style tube. Another word to the wise regarding donut tubes.  Have you ever figured out what you’d do if you fell over in shallow water as you are stepping out of your tube? It’s a good idea to think, in advance, about what you’d do in this situation.  I have heard that some people have drowned just this way. Personally, I use a U-boat that’s got a styrofoam block as a seat.  The latter will float me even if the tube completely deflates.  Given the fact that I wear neoprene waders, and I still keep my auto-inflatable vest in a storage pocket, I feel pretty unsinkable.  (By the way, I keep a whistle too) (Just my luck, I’ll still figure a way to drown myself even with all that back-up!) FiddleAway

Response:

Oh boy BJC.  If ever there was a river to have a Personal Floatation Device, I would think the Deschutes just about rates right up there.  The least someone should do is put a small bottle of Gehrke’s Fly Floatation Device in their vest.  At the last second, they can smear it on their face giving them a chance for a couple of last breaths and casts?

Oh man…if a whole bottle were to fall in a river…man…I shudder. That would have drastic consequences. Iimagine the whole river floating…higher and higher all the way to the jetstream where it flows ethereal and winds its way back to the dream. By the way?  Do you need a free hat B.C.?

Yes, I was thinking it should say…. "Get some Ginkee on your Fingee" Your pal, — The Halfordian Golfer The deceipt ends with the lure.

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk. I can swim. In fact, I can swim pretty well. If I couldn’t swim I probably wouldn’t use a float tube. Life in a series of tradeoffs. I think my chance of a catastrophic float-tube failure, leaving me somewhere from which I couldn’t swim to shore, is pretty remote. That chance doesn’t (in my opinion) merit me using a life vest. I’ll roll those dice, and if they come up snake eyes so be it.

Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes. I see your point, and I can respect your attitude.  In fact, if having backup weren’t so easy, low hassle, and inexpensive, I might even cop it myself. But, flotation backup is easy and cheap and death by drowning really gives me the creeps.  So as long as I can imagine realistic situations (and I can), though unlikely, where having backup would save my life (when not having them would not), I’ll take it. That is the point for me and I suspect that’s the point for most people (which, as I said, I think you knew already, right?) FiddleAway

Response:

Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes.

I didn’t mean to imply that someone who wears a life vest or a "backup floatation device" is stupid. I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that in my personal experience I haven’t felt the need for one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw wrote Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes. I didn’t mean to imply that someone who wears a life vest or a "backup floatation device" is stupid. I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that in my personal experience I haven’t felt the need for one.

Er, well, I didn’t mean to imply that you meant to imply that… Actually I thought your subtext was more along the lines of …the less you worry about unlikely things, the more you enjoy whatever it is you’re doing … or something like that. Which happens to be a sentiment I agree with … still, we all have our own comfort level. FiddleAway

Response:

You’re missing something. A float tube in many states is considered a boat. And CG regulations require you to have a personal flotation device handy on the boat. When float tubes go bad, they often dont’ just leak a little, they deflate quickly. Every year it seems, at least one person dies because his float tube deflates and he/she panics and gets stuck getting out of it or can not swim. Or back home in the southeast, float tubes are a favorite way to fish the tailwaters, and it is not difficult to get careless and upended on moving waters, especially during unscheduled releases.. As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Isn’t the backrest in your tube inflateable? Isn’t it in all of them? If so, then there is a floatation device right there. Ok, so it’s not CG approved, BFD. Darin

Response:

rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk.

I can swim. In fact, I can swim pretty well. If I couldn’t swim I probably wouldn’t use a float tube. Life in a series of tradeoffs. I think my chance of a catastrophic float-tube failure, leaving me somewhere from which I couldn’t swim to shore, is pretty remote. That chance doesn’t (in my opinion) merit me using a life vest. I’ll roll those dice, and if they come up snake eyes so be it. Maybe if I were float tubing in the middle of the Great Slave Lake I’d feel differently. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Maine now requires that you carry, not necessarily wear, a USCG approved floatation device when fishing from a tube as they do with any type of boat and/or personal watercraft. I’ve taken to dragging one of those cheapie orange wall mart vests behind my tube since wearing it would be a pain in the ass. I’ve looked at the inflatable SOS-penders and the like and will probably one day get one since I’m not the swimteam type anymore Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Not necessarily r.w.  Cold water temperatures lower the body tempertures which tends to make the blood want to congeal which could result in a heart attack.  One should always have a back up floatation device and it is also a good idea to take asprin the night before to help thin the blood.  Asprin for older folks, each day is a good idea anyhow, if your doctor okays it for you. Float tube do go flat in the middle of a lake for no good reason at all.  We should remember that tire tubes get punctured or spring leaks.  Most systems are two chambered R.W. and all you need is one side to go flat on you and you’re leaning sideways and over you go. Often, in float tubes of various models, the user may fall into the water or need to get out of the floatation tube for various reasons.  The worst thing anyone can do once in the water is to hold onto the fly rod.  Unless someone is close enough to let them reach your butt section to drag you out or towards them, let the damned thing go.  Fly rods are expendable but you’re not. Anyhow r.w. I bought a couple of those minature, under the vest life-vests and I don’t go wading in water over my head without one on.  I also don’t go tubing or floating anywhere without wearing one.  So the smart option is to always make a back up floatation device part of your main system.  Be a ground hog, have a back door escape route  planned or ready in case you may need it. Trying to swim with fly fishing thermo clothing, waders, flippers, vests, heavy coats, etc. on is not the same as trying to swim in a warm pool with just trunks on. (Or skinny dipping)  Another factor is does the tuber smoke?  Frailing around in ice cold lake water and worse yet, spring fed ponds with little or no good lung power doesn’t assure enough energy to reach shore.  I know of one gentleman who was paddled himself right into a sharp stick that was just an inch under the water.  Put a hole the size of a baseball into his tube and he sunk in seconds!  If I wasn’t there, he would have drowned. Get one of those little CO2 life vests r.w.  It’s wonderful life insurance. George Gehrke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

Last I heard, here in Washington a float tube was considered a swim toy, therefore no PFD required. Darin

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If you are in the deschutes in your pontoon boat you have to have a PFD,  a trip permit and a container for waste ( that more that just candy bar wrappers ).  I have heard from some people that it applies to float tubes also but have not had a chance to talk to the ODFG yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube

Response:

Oh boy BJC.  If ever there was a river to have a Personal Floatation Device, I would think the Deschutes just about rates right up there.  The least someone should do is put a small bottle of Gehrke’s Fly Floatation Device in their vest.  At the last second, they can smear it on their face giving them a chance for a couple of last breaths and casts?  By the way?  Do you need a free hat B.C.? ;  } – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are in the deschutes in your pontoon boat you have to have a PFD,  a trip permit and a container for waste ( that more that just candy bar wrappers ).  I have heard from some people that it applies to float tubes also but have not had a chance to talk to the ODFG yet. I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

I wouldn;t use a tube without a life vest system of some sort. I use a floater vest, made by mustang. It is inflatable, fits just like a fishing vest, is waterproof, and has a CO2 cartridge for inflation. Also has a mouth tube. Catsing is no problem, even when I weighed 250 lbs. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

Response:

I know that you did not like them, but I use the SOSpenders.  I weigh a little more than you so it can be done.  I find that in either the pontoon or tube I can cast while wearing them.  As I’m a lousy swimmer, I sometimes wear them if I fish alone on the Deschutes.  In Oregon, I think the law is to have one available in a floating device, but not specifically to be wearing it.  That allows those hip pack inflatables to be used if they are Coast Guard approved. On swimming, here is a link on swimming in waders.  It also shows the application of a hip pack inflatable. http://www.westernflyfisher.com/index.asp?i=0101p25v5&t=1 ra kane at gte dot net "BassCreel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

Response:

I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

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Question:

am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption)

I purchased a Pungo for fishing last spring, and spent quite a few summer evenings on small lakes in my area.  I am more than pleased with it.  It’s quite stable and easy to paddle.  It’s hull has hard chines, so you won’t be turning on a dime, but it tracks well. You have to be a bit careful where you position the rod holder.  That’s the one piece of equipment that could get in the way of your paddling.  E-mail me if you’d like more info. Chuck

Response:

Thanks for the reply, did you buy the your boat with the fishing package installed? I have never used a kayak and need to be able to also paddle upstream on slow flowing river, so you think this boat is still a good choice? thanks pjb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) I purchased a Pungo for fishing last spring, and spent quite a few summer evenings on small lakes in my area.  I am more than pleased with it. It’s quite stable and easy to paddle.  It’s hull has hard chines, so you won’t be turning on a dime, but it tracks well. You have to be a bit careful where you position the rod holder. That’s the one piece of equipment that could get in the way of your paddling.  E- mail me if you’d like more info. Chuck

Response:

Thanks for the reply, did you buy the your boat with the fishing package installed? I have never used a kayak and need to be able to also paddle upstream on slow flowing river, so you think this boat is still a good choice? thanks pjb

Paul: I installed the the package myself.  Nothing to it.  As far as paddling upstream on a slow flowing river, that should be no problem.   What kind of fishing do you have in mind?  Also, do you live anywhere near Wisconsin by any chance.  There’ll be some good deals on Pungos at a kayak show there in the near future (no I’m not selling). Chuck

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I HAVE THE PUNGO  WITH OUT THE FISHING OPTION I LOVE IT ITS STABLE AND IT HAS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR MY FLY FISHIG GEAR ITS A GOOD BOAT  EASY TO HANDLE AND CONTROLL AND YA GOTA LOVE THE LARGE OPENING IN IT I PERSONALY WOULD PICK THE COLOR YOU WANT AND ADD THE EXTRAS AS YOU SEE YOU NEED THEM BOU IF YOU WANT TO STAND UP TO CAST YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT WWW.TRIBALANCE.COM BUT I CAST A 8 FT FLY ROD SITTING DOW OUT OF MY PUNGO GOOD UCK SIK

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I am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) or the Pungo Angler.  First does anyone have a used one they would like to sell? Second, what do you think of either of these boats? Third, how stable are they and are they good to fish out of? Fourth, does the added fishing hardware get in they way of paddling? Last, How difficult is the Pamlico Excel to paddle solo? Any Help? Thanks

Response:

I am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) or the Pungo Angler.  First does anyone have a used one they would like to sell?

I have used them both before.  I used to sell these for a living. Second, what do you think of either of these boats?

I think you have made excellent choices in both boats.  The Pungo seems to have been the most popular with fisherman in my past seeling days. Third, how stable are they and are they good to fish out of?

Very stable and very good to fish out of.  They both have excellent initial and secondary stability. Fourth, does the added fishing hardware get in they way of paddling?

No.  Just don’t add it where you think it may get in the way.  You can add as much hardwear as you want to make the boat’s use exactly for what you want to use it for. Last, How difficult is the Pamlico Excel to paddle solo?

It’s not hard at all but turning it is a bit harder on your own just because of it’s length.  On top of that you can take another person or even a dog with you at anytime you want.  That’s the negative of the Pungo.  The positive is that it will turn easier than the Pamlico. Courtney

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Question:

There is a new website for people interested in countryside pursuits, including fly fishing.  Its undfer development and need input from fellow fly fishers.  Why not take a look and add your input http://www.countrysidepursuits.co.uk

Response:

Countryside pursuits is a web site dedicated for countryside pursuits in the UK. Its under development and need of interaction for fellow game shooters.  So why not take a look and add your input to the site. http://www.countrysidepursuits.co.uk

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Question:

/daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

Much?  Oh Lordy!  Let’s go for another walk on Upper!    :)

Response:

How about magazines for the younger folks here?

It took me a minute to get that one  There are some great articles in there: – Easy access ramps on wilderness rivers near you! – Geritol makes a great leader greaser – Clip-on flies: do they spook fish? – The "granny" knot – new research shows it’s not as weak as you thought – The new generation automatic reels – are they strong enough to reel in fish over 12" for you? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733

How about magazines for the younger folks here? /daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

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Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733

Response:

OK, got my bid in….one of the photos showed a walker with built in rod holder…..hot damn!! Frank (crip) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733 How about magazines for the younger folks here? /daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

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Question:

Anyone know of a source for flyfishing clip art?  thanks in Advance

Response:

Anyone know of a source for flyfishing clip art?  thanks in Advance

Check out the Fly & Field website at: http://www.flyfield.com/clipart.htm — Steve Vaughn

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Question:

Jess writes: Hello I am going to try flyfishing for stripers here in OK. this spring and I am wondering if I really need a reel with a 200 yd backing capacity ? It seems your tippet would break just from the resistance of the flyline in the water.

                                                                 Thanks                                                                    Jess Jess, you are correct.  ~~150 yards ought to do it…. I’ve had fish go " over the hill" of a rapid and take more than this, but don’t recall landing any of them.  In open water, chase ‘em, in a river, finesse is better. A common method is to let the line go completely slack, the fish will then swim upstream back to you…  Have fun… Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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Hello I am going to try flyfishing for stripers here in OK. this spring and I am wondering if I really need a reel with a 200 yd backing capacity ? It seems your tippet would break just from the resistance of the flyline in the water.                                                                  Thanks                                                                    Jess

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Question:

writes: Hi Jerome,  Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

I second that. I just received a complimentary copy and am favorably impressed. Not glossy. Published by Bob Auger (Dupuy’s). I was surprised to see an article by our roff/rofft friend and frequent poster Al Beatty. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

The mailing address is  P.O. Box 40429, San Francisco, CA  94105. You can pick one up at most SF fly shops, though they often sell out.

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I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great

-SNIP- Hi Jerome, You can get a subscription to the California Fly Fisher which is a large format magazine (about the size of Computer Currents with glossy cover and newsprint interior)  about fishing in California.  Lots of good info. It’s published by Rich Anderson, but I don’t have his address handy.  It’s a monthly publication and you can pick up a copy at the Orvis store in SF or any of the fly shops in town.  Subscrciption information is always found inside.                          Good Fishing,                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Hi Jerome,   Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

Also "California Fly Fisher" Don Burns

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Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.  

Hi Jerome,    Pick up a copy of California Flyfisher at your local flyshop or call (415) 284-0313 and order one. You’ll probably subscribe. Not a very wizzy rag but from time to time flyfishing needs a bit more unwizzyness. -Ralph —

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Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states. Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/That’s odd.  I,m about as far east in the US as you can get, and think

all the major mags spend too much time on western rivers!! Maybe they do have amiddle ground perspective if we both think they are slanted.   I subscribe to all the majors, but my favorite (and most useful) National Mag is Fly Fisherman, but it maybe because they have an eastern slant, but I have issues where the only eastern reference is the postmark!  There are several western mags, and I’m sure one of the left coast regulars can provide you with the details. jg

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I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

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Question:

Can anyone suggest a repellent for wasps and bees. On Monday I was stung twice while training. I will be competing in IMC and apparently the wasps can be a problem when cycling through the fruit orchards. I don’t want to go through the discomfort again and wouldn’t want my worst enemy to go through it either. I did a swim /bike workout yesterday. After putting on my wetsuit I was stung in the right heel. there was no significant swelling which is a plus in my favor. then an hour later on the bike I was stung on the back of my neck. I don’t know what it was but it must have been a wasp or bee. If there is a repellent I will put it on my body and also my bike. I found that the wasps seemed to be attracted to the gatorade that had splashed on the bike frame and bottle. they were landing on both and ’sniffing’ around. Any suggestions would ‘bee’ appreciated!! TriFiend

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The only thing I’ve found that actually works for wasps is lavender (the plant). The fishing clubs usually plant it along the river banks near where I live to keep the little bastards away. I don’t know whether there is a commerical product that does the same. Usually a  bit rubbed into the skin works ok, with the disadvantage that you smell like Joan Collins’ knickers for a while. Most bug repellants only seem to be directed toward mosquitos and midges and you sweat them off anyway. I had quite a lot of success with some tablets I got from a camping/climbing shop that made your sweat unattractive to them. Only problem was after a while I started turning yellow  (ha ha). I now find mosquitos and wasps the ideal motivation for impromptu fartlek sessions, in fact I did a 10K PB after being chased by a Horse fly last month…. really helps with the 5K kick ! tim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone suggest a repellent for wasps and bees. On Monday I was stung twice while training. I will be competing in IMC and apparently the wasps can be a problem when cycling through the fruit orchards. I don’t want to go through the discomfort again and wouldn’t want my worst enemy to go through it either. I did a swim /bike workout yesterday. After putting on my wetsuit I was stung in the right heel. there was no significant swelling which is a plus in my favor. then an hour later on the bike I was stung on the back of my neck. I don’t know what it was but it must have been a wasp or bee. If there is a repellent I will put it on my body and also my bike. I found that the wasps seemed to be attracted to the gatorade that had splashed on the bike frame and bottle. they were landing on both and ’sniffing’ around. Any suggestions would ‘bee’ appreciated!! TriFiend

As far as I know, there is no repellent for wasps or bees.  Chances are better of getting stung by a wasp then a bee.  A bee dies after it stings something, so will only sting when bothered, just riding by on a bike will not make it sting you.  As far as wasps, they are natures best terrorists. The best prevention from them is to wear light colored clothing.  They seem to attack dark colored moving objects more that light colored. The reason you see them around the gatorade is because they love sugar. If you want to keep them away from your bike, just use water in the bottles.                                                 Brian

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Question:

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

This item sparked my interest too, so I’ll start.   I recently tried a new product for saltwater tying.  It’s colored hot glue (pink, orange, amber, green and many others available) for tying Mother of Epoxy (Glue) type bonefish and permit flies.  It is really easy to use this stuff.  Just add bead chain eyes to a saltwater hook.  Drop on a wad of hot glue, dip in water for 3-5 seconds, and it’s cool enough to mold with your hands.  If you don’t like the way the head turned out, you can dip it in very hot water and remold.   This colored hot glue is available at the craft store for aboout a tenth of the price of the fly shop (as are doll eyes and lots of other good stuff for saltwater flies). I recently went to Belize and a hot glue fly (regular tan glue) with a tuft of tan bucktail was red hot for bonefish. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Hey John , great post last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself? 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the    stuff you are using? 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0?? 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -thanks?

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last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself?

That’s the beauty of hot glue, you don’t need a mold, you just mold it with your fingers.   For deceiver heads, I use epoxy.  It dries a lot clearer and harder.  You don’t need a mold, but you do need a slow rpm motor to turn these after you apply the epoxy (5 minutes) until it hardens. 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the

   stuff you are using? I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0??

For mother of glue flies for bonefish I use 4’s and 6’s 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers?

I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   < Sacramento, CA

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writes: 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   <

I’v had good luck with chartreuse patterns for clear water (like surf or fast moving tidal rivers) and yellow patterns for muddy water (like back bays). I noticed that blue and white also works in either environment, but I was using clousers, not deceivers. HighHooks-n-TightLines,       Jose

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Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the     stuff you are using?     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks.     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

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This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

I wrote a short piece for American Angler back in 1986 or so, about using hot glue guns for fly tying. I still use them occasionally, for big flies (like some salt water flies). But there are drawbacks. The faster the hot glue hardens (higher melting temps) the stronger the glue is, and the harder it is to use, becuase the stuff sets up so fast. Low temperature glues are easier to work with, but the damn flies melt right in you fly box on a hot day. The only practicle solution is to use high temp glues, and learn how to work very fast.   Good hardware stores (the ones that cater to tradesmen) carry a variety of hot glue sticks, with faster and slower, hotter and cooler melting temperatures. Steer clear of "clear-colored" sticks. Clear hot glue sticks were developed for florists, for obvious reasons, but clear hot glue sticks have the lowest bonding strength. —

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: Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly :     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the :     stuff you are using? :     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. :     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly :    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. : This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the : way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue : sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. So did I.   Bryan : Jim in Southern California

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Question:

The MERCHANT NAVY is the official name for the British merchant fleet in recognition of their losses in the World Wars. In fact there was a badge issued to mercant sailors that consists of the letters MN. — ship safety branch canadian coast guard-west vancouver

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                Union Flag in the upper left.        That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK        is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an        oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime? Sincerely worried, John.

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I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime?

I’m no sea lawyer, but I believe the only illegality would be to fly the ensign of the wrong country from the customary position (mainsail leech in the case of Dr. Who) in order to falsely claim the protection of that government ("false flagging"). I believe Dr. Who is "numbered", not "registered" ("documented") in California, as I don’t imagine she admeasures the minimum of 5 tons required for documentation.  (Is she in Lloyd’s Register of Yachts?) Furthermore, if she were documented, *you* would not be allowed to own her. If numbered in California, she is a U.S. vessel regardless of her ownership. I believe Miss Manners would require that you fly from the leech only the U.S. ensign (or the U.S. Yacht Ensign).  In addition, you might fly the Red Ensign from the "courtesy ensign" position (usually the starboard spreader.) As to your last question, I think it might depend on whether Britain were at war *with the United States*. Sincerely worried, John.

May you avoid Dinty Moore Beef Stew henceforth,                  Tom Murphy Standard Disclaimer.

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JOHN S DREWERY writes:

        I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger         red ensign.  I have always been a bit worried about whether I         have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.           I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but         thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net         wisdom.         So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red         ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British         government requisition the boat in wartime? You’re a bit light with caps, aren’t you old son. Try Red Ensign. Right? Might is Right. Fly it with pride. If I had a smaller one I’d fly it from the cross-trees of my GOBLIN as a Jolie Rougier – if you know what I mean.                                         Cap’n Fido, terror of the South Bay                                         GOBLIN

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And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s)

The Royal Fleet Auxilliaries fly the Blue Ensign.                      "In the long run, we’re all dead."                               -John Maynard Keynes

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The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

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:   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave — Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877              Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

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… the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. … Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

It’s not clear if you mean (currently) non-British or (ever) non-British.  In the former category is Jamaica.  Their martime flag is formed in a manner similar to New Zealand’s with a white cross and three red quarters and the Jamaican green/black civil flag in the top quarter nearest the (?)fly. Randolph Bentson

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Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. There are several other countries that have special marine flags. I do not have a list of them but at least U.S., Italy, Denmark and Finland have ones. In Finland each yacht club has it’s own symbol at the upper corner at the fly. The ensign is white, like the national flag, but has added to the blue cross another white cross on right onver the blue one. The ’sailor’ flag is actually older than the Finnish national flag, because when the first yacht clubs were born more than 130 years ago, Finland was a part of Russia and the sailors did not want to fly the Russian flag and they got the permission from the czar to fly a ‘club ensign’.  Anyway today this ‘club ensings’ are bona fide national flags, because all of them are approved by the parliament to be so. If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline. If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline. This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope? – Lauri Tarkkonen

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The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

Perhaps ‘not derived from British practice’ would be more accurate (see India, Ireland etc) The only ones which spring to mind are the swallow-tailed ensigns based on the national flag, as used in Scandinavian vessels. Also certain yacht clubs in Belgium and the Netherlands use defaced (technical term meaning ‘bearing a badge or symbol’) national flags as ensigns. At least one Dutch yacht club appears to have a version of the White Ensign. Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel. For the origin of the Red, White and Blue Ensigns see ‘Squadronal Colours’ in the Oxford Dictionary of Ships and the Sea. More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years? Brian Gay

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave

Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877             Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

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[much useful informatio non Ensigns deleted] More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years?

I think the operative word is ‘bastard’.  I agree with you.  The Ensign is to designate the country under whose authority (or protection) the vessel is placed. Give me the Red Duster (or defaced Blue/White/Red) any day! — Regards, Iain  snailmail: MLB G/53a, BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich. IP5 7RE

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Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. —

Can you explain the purpose/use of the Jack.  In the US navy it is called the Union Jack and is a square blue flag covered with white stars.  What does it mean and when is it flown?  Do only military vessels fly it? Every time I’ve seen it mentioned in a book it has piqued my interest so I read about it only to find the writer apparently knows no more about it than I do. Greg Cook

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel.

This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)? — Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass.   "Sir, you will either die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That, my lord, depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." John Wilkes to the Earl of Sandwich, Parliament, November 1763

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This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  

My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official registration* and therefore the British subject may fly the Red Ensign. What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?

There are two registers – the Official Register of British Ships and the Small Ships Register. Getting your ex-US ship onto the former would be difficult and costly but the latter is straightforward – apply to SSR, DVLA, Swansea, Wales.  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)?

Permits to fly other British ensigns are issued by the authorised clubs to members owning registered vessels. Brian Gay

Response:

There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself.

No. It is flown in the bows (at a jackstaff) on Royal Navy ships at anchor or moorings (when it is properly called the Union Jack). As the Union Flag it is the personal flag of an Admiral of the Fleet. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat.

If the boat is on a British register, this is correct. If not, then whatever ensign is  allowed by the law of the charterer’s country. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron.

The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club.

Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign. [Interesting historical stuff deleted] If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline.

Nice gesture, but see below If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline.

A long-time custom of the sea. Some countries require this by law. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline.

Yes, if registered (see above) This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope?

That’s the problem – to avoid international repercussions, all the national flags would have to be at the same height and of the same size. I hope to be in Finland next year or the year after, Lauri, so you can visit my boat to see that my flag etiquette is all it should be! Brian Gay

Response:

: My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official : registration*… However, I can cite a case where a boat was purchased in England and registered in Colorado.  It carried the CO number and annual sticker.  The only "paperwork" was the usual (approx) 3" x 3" card with a few (very few) details about the boat and the owner.  That was accepted by the customs of numerous countries around the Mediterranean, and in the Canary Islands, Cape Verde Islands and Martinique.  The only time it was no longer accepted as the *official registration* was when the boat was brought back to the States and permanently berthed in another state (not CO).  When I went to the customs in Martinique, there were several French boats that had all come in at the same time.  I was a bit nervous because they all had official-looking books registering their boats and all I had was this pathetic little bit of a card from Colorado (I wasn’t even named as the owner).  But the customs accepted it without any question.  You can’t get much more *official* than that The owner was American so the boat always flew the S & S.  We did fly the Red Duster as a courtesy flag in England. B.S!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign.

I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ? regards — Chris Cooper

Response:

Cooper) says: I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ?

Yep:  the Royal Solent Yacht Club in Yarmouth, IoW, for one. Regards, Alister

Response:

: HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole : at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what : flag goes where? Hm? HMY Britannia trivia: the ship’s name is not marked on any external part of the hull or superstructure. I don’t know if it is marked anywhere inside, not having been there myself. — Terry Steinford

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:    David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:            The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,            a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the            Union Flag in the upper left.    That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK    is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an    oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:    MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant    ships on the official registers of any one nation. It    embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger    liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small    coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in    fishing.

And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response:

Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons).

HMY Britannia is run by the Royal Navy and as such flies the White Ensign. I am fairly certain that the Blue Ensign is only flown by civilian vessels carrying ministers of the Crown, but I defer to your more expert knowledge on flag code concerning yachting. I certainly don’t see any particular reason why some clubs might not be granted permission to fly the Blue Ensign; many of their officers are reservists in the Royal Navy and as such would fly it anyway. It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag.

My point, at the ultimate beginning of this particular bit of vexillological discourse, was not that British fishing vessels had to fly the Red Ensign, but that they would be in the wrong (and most in violation of the law) to fly the White or Blue Ensign (or the RAF Ensign or the Trinity House Ensign or the Royal Northern Lights Commission Ensign, etc. etc.). They need not fly the flag, but if they do they are only permitted the Red Ensign. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what flag goes where? Hm?                           "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                   -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        Francis Muir says:                 Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common                 use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE                 SEA:                         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the                         merchant ships on the official registers of any                         one nation. It embraces  merchant ships of all                         varieties, from passenger liners and very large                         tankers and bulk carriers to small coasters, but                         does not normally include vessels used in fishing.         Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow. Okay, I was wrong to         some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed         to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine,         but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; … Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons). It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

Response:

Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow.     Okay, I was wrong to some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine, but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; my statement that the UK Merchant Marine fly the Red Ensign is still correct (not just the Merchant Navy as a subset of the Merchant Marine).                       "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                 The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                 a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                 Union Flag in the upper left.         That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK         is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an         oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant         ships on the official registers of any one nation. It         embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger         liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small         coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in         fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response: