Question:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."

What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.) OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO. Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, ___that he wore on the video___, robbing the store, and his

counsel’s failure to object was "i.c." What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.)

One of my points, in general. OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO.

Pretty unlucky find, I’d say:  A guy who looks exactly like the accused dumping off the shirt, and our hapless accused being unlucky enough to buy/find it.  From what I’ve heard, this is one of those, "I’m not saying I didn’t do it, I did it, I’m just saying it wasn’t ‘fair’." Plus, the police didn’t find it, he produced it.  What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob.

No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie. As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again. Mark Faulkner

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie… I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie.

OK, so that part is simple reflex, but… As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again.

What?  Do you truly believe this?  Why is it encumbering to the people of Texas to defend such a person?   While I believe in the 5th Amendment, what possible defense is there against a guilty person’s own stupidity?  The goal of the system is (or at least should be) the truth, and we have it, and the defendant willingly and openly provided evidence.  The adversarial system wasn’t compromised, no abuse took place, there is nothing to correct.  What exactly wasn’t "fair"?   CDAs argue when the accused is in jailwear, so he got to wear his own stuff. Seemingly, under this theory, testimony regarding the fact the gun was found at his home should be disallowed because his counsel was too ineffective to tell him to get rid of it. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mark Faulkner

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here…… Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

You misspelled "laywayers"… <G R

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers

waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember.

I’m not sure what you mean by red herring, but if you mean it is simply a guilty man’s way of taking another bite, I agree.  To me, it is like someone who confesses (uncoerced), and then tries to "legal" their way out of it.  Further, I think the rights of the accused are important, but this isn’t protecting his rights against or in an adversarial system, perfect or imperfect.  It isn’t even "self-incrimination" in the 5th Amendment sense.  This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. Peter

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud.

fro? <g — Charlie…

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. fro? <g — Charlie…

For the "stuck in the seventies" lwayers… <G R

Response:

[snip] This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure you can carry ‘presumed innocence’ too far. Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

Response:

Peter Charles: I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Response:

What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him?

LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…)

Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

True, it is very annoying to think of the wasted dollars and time involved but given the number of high profile cases being overturned by DNA evidence, (especially north of the border) where the quality of counsel was at best questionable, I think this is the price we have to pay to enshrine the concept in law. I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Response:

Question:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks. Memories of my last fall in this spot on a day trip the previous  year, when I crashed heavily onto a rock with my right knee, and had to more or less crawl to the car being unable to walk, came to mind, and made me even more careful than usual.  Without the cushioning of the 5mm neoprene my kneecap would surely have been badly damaged, as it was it brought tears to my eyes, and my knee was swollen and all the colours of the rainbow for weeks. Digging my ski pole in carefully at every step I kept moving, staying at the waters edge, and only wading when absolutely necessary, to negotiate large boulders and the like. falling into this water would likely prove fatal very quickly, should I be stupid or careless enough to do so. The wind had dropped somewhat, to about a howling gale, and the rapidly swirling snow flakes stuck to my clothing and covered my head and shoulders, freezing to my spectacles and forcing me to shake my head occasionally to stop too large a build-up. Clammy cold damp reached through my neoprenes and made me shiver occasionally.  Very heavy overcast coupled with the snowstorm had turned the day very dark. I had started to fish just before  dawn, and had made my way slowly along three miles or so of the rocky coastline stopping to cast every ten feet or so, using main force to try and reach out as far as possible into the murk, lingering a little longer at some places which had proved successful in the past. Result ? nothing. Checking the watch on the lanyard in my top pocket, told me it was eleven thirty, and I had told my wife I would probably be back to the chalet for lunch, she had declined to accompany me, and decided to stay in the chalet with a good book instead.  Sensible person my wife. Just another hundred meters or so I thought, and then I will turn for home,  the group of large rocks at the headland is usually the best place anyway, as the sea-bed dips away into a deep channel quite close to shore. Takes come as the fly comes up over the lip of the channel where a large band of weed lines the shore, mostly cod, but occasionally a good seatrout, the lip of the channel is only about sixty feet from shore, and a good flat powerful cast should reach it, even in this wind.  Overwintering seatrout are often large, in excellent condition, and sometimes fight like fury, many maintain they taste better than any other fish bar none. Largish cod are not to be sniffed at either though, they fight much more doggedly than a seatrout, but are still exciting, and a five or even ten pounder on light gear is an experience not soon forgotten. Several such fish had fallen to my rod at this spot the previous year under similar conditions. Conventional gear was useless, and I had long since taken the fly reel and line off the rod, in fact within the first twenty minutes, and was using a casting float and fixed spool reel. Even with this rig it was hardly possible to cast more than fifty feet or so into the teeth of the wind. A slow sinking sliding float of thirty grams, a nine foot leader, and a shrimp fly had brought nothing as yet, not as much as a nibble.  I decided to change flies, and put on a much darker version of the shrimp fly, with a touch of red in the tail. The normally peaceful Baltic was crashing into the shore with unusual force, white horses whirling and dancing on the wave tops as far as it was possible to see, and although the water cleared quickly after every breaker, allowing one to see the bottom fairly well close in, I fancied something with a darker silhouette might do the trick, although my hopes of catching anything at all had diminished considerably. As usual I dangled the fly in the water in front of me, waiting for a break in the surf, allowing the float to settle slowly and then moving it to check the action of the fly more or less at my feet.  A small crab appeared as if from nowhere on the blank patch of sand,and seemed to want to grab the fly, scuttling after it and attempting to settle on it, and fascinated by this, I pulled the fly along slowly, just to see if the crab would be able to grab it.  Intent on this, I failed to notice the next breaker coming in and temporarily lost sight of the crab and fly, as the breaker stirred up sand colouring the water. A sudden jerk and my float shooting away along the shore at a rate of knots very nearly frightened me to death, the rod was almost jerked from my hand, and the drag on my reel started to whine unpleasantly, and I was absolutely flabbergasted. I did not strike or anything at all, in fact for quite a while I just stood there with the rod pointing straight along the shore, while the line cut into my index finger almost to the bone and the drag continued to whine. After what seemed like an age I finally had enough presence of mind to take my finger away from the line, and hit the fighting drag lever on the reel, the drag which was giving off what I hoped was just steam, slowed to a rather more leisurely rate, and eventually stopped. Everything went slack, and rather annoyed with myself. but still more surprised than anything else, I started to reel in.  Must have been one hell of a fish that, I thought, reeling in at moderate speed, you bloody idiot, fancy losing a fish like that, I cursed myself, and then everything went tight again ! Bloody hell, hung up as well !   Then the "snag" started moving again. After about ten minutes of pumping, a few peculiarly powerful long, and some short dogged runs, which were most unlike any fight I had experienced before, and during which all sorts of ideas of monster seatrout and salmon went through my mind, and more pumping, I finally saw the fish, a large cod foul hooked in the dorsal fin !  Too large to risk beaching it, I unslung my net and landed it knee deep in the surf, in considerable danger of being swept off my feet by the breakers. I despatched the fish, which coughed up a fair number of small crabs, and after weighing it laid it on a large rock behind me. Just over eleven pounds showed on my scale which is fairly accurate.  Oh well, I thought, not exactly the fine English art of fly angling, but a nice fish anyway, and inspected my leader and fly for signs of chafing or other damage.  Getting ready for another Herculean cast into the teeth of the wind, I suddenly thought better of it, and just swung the float and fly about ten feet from shore, letting the fly be pulled along by the float and tumbling in the surf.  Bang !  it had not gone three yards when the float shot away again, and after a much shorter battle a nice plump six pound cod  joined its mate on the rock behind me.  Six casts and six fish followed in fairly quick succession. Sweating now, all thoughts of cold forgotten, I decided on "just one more cast" before packing up.  I had over forty pounds of fish to clean and pack back to the chalet, and that was more than enough for our freezer requirements for this year. The sky had lightened up somewhat, and the snow had stopped falling, visibility was steadily increasing, and although the wind had dropped somewhat the spray was still lashing in with force, occasionally giving me a good soaking, my face was numb, and all attempts to dry my hands on the towel from my bag failed miserably as it was already soaking wet.  Plunging my hands into the icy water one more time, and hoping for the best, I changed my chafed leader with no little difficulty, tied on a new fly of the same type and size, a rather brown "Baltic woolly", with a touch of red in the tail, a type of woolly bugger which is a very good shrimp imitation, and might just conceivably be mistaken for a crab, and decided to try reaching the lip of the channel. A forceful whirling side cast using all the power of the thirteen foot one and a half pound test carp rod, keeping the trajectory as flat as possible, ended abruptly, as the float struck the water about thirty feet out, my numb fingers had caused me to mistimed the release.  Relatively slight tangles formed as the wind caught the line and blew it off the reel spool.  This was soon sorted and I took up tension on the line prior to retrieving fairly fast for another try.  Wham !  an almighty jerk on the end of the line bent the rod well over, and the drag started whining immediately as the fish headed straight for the deep water channel.  Just as well, if it dived for the weeds  it would be gone.  This was no foul hooked cod, but obviously a decent seatrout, and as if to confirm my observations it leapt from the water about a hundred  feet away, coming down with a large splash which could be heard even over the sound of wind and waves.  A very nice fish indeed, which must be kept out of the weeds at all costs. I loosened the drag lever somewhat, seatrout often come off if forced too hard, and  settled down to the fight. Several long screaming runs followed by spectacular leaps followed, with the fish coming ever closer to the weed bank lining the shore. The trick at this location is to tire the fish out as much as possible in the clear water beyond the weed banks, before bringing it in. This is however often much easier said than done. This was a very powerful fish, and was still showing little sign of tiring, I loosened the drag a little more, hoping that the hookhold would not fail due to the prolonged fight, and awaited developments. Several more runs and leaps followed.and then head shaking and short deep bursts of speed toward the bottom … read more »

Response:

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt…

Stop it, you’re making me hungry! I knew that cod tasted good. I knew that the flesh was white and flaky. I just thought that they were a little ugly and lived in deep and really cold water. (I mean, you have to admit that they don’t have the sleek predatory good looks of a spotted bass, or the colors of a spawning rainbow, and I didn’t think fish were supposed to have beards…) Besides, the inland US doesn’t have much cod, but have you ever hooked into a bigmouth bass? That’s a ride you won’t soon forget. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

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Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman

I’ll stand you and Mike Connor a lunch Herman, but sadly I don’t think it will be cod. My car is only a little one and I fear my other passengers might object if I came over loaded up with cod, potatoes and deep fryer, etc.! By a strange coincidence, they were talking about cod on BBC Radio 4 today. The price has rocketed as stocks have declined. There was even an interview with Mark Kurlansky (who wrote the book) over in New York. We are very lucky as we have an excellent fish n’ chip shop in Tunbridge Wells, our nearest big town. It regularly wins the prize for the best in the south east of England. My wife just e-mailed to ask: ‘What’s for dinner tonight?’ Problem solved! I’m looking forward to Fly Fair. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen.

It’s related to the scorpionfishes and rock cod.  Like the rock cod, the ling is not a cod. If I remember correctly it doesn’t suffer from decompression as you haul it up from the depths of the ocean.  It fights you all the way.  Cab grow to 5 feet. http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_lingcod_fact.html Mu

Response:

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something.

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

[snipped excellent report] … Brrrr … Thanks, Steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/SIEACCIDENTALLYSPLATTEREDBACKONEDAY

Response:

Mike, I’ll call/mail you as soon as I can arrange some days off! And, judging from your post, I’ll pack my old carp rod as well.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Correct.  In the Baltic and some other places ( English North sea and similar), these fish come in close to forage, especially on crustaceans and herring. Fairly large fish may be caught in relatively shallow water. They will even "rise" to flies fished on the surface,especially at twilight, at night , or on heavily overcast days.  My best fish to date from the shore was thirty one pounds, but I got that one on a pirk, not on a fly. My best fly caught fish was about twenty pounds, but I don’t know exactly as it was not weighed.  These fish are game fighters, excellent to eat, (especially smoked with my secret recipe ! ), and although completely unlike trout can be very attractive indeed. Their markings and behaviour depend to a considerable extent on the areas they frequent. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Looking forward to hearing from you Herman. You can stay at my place no problem.  Definitely bring the carp rod. I have enough other gear for you to use if you need anything else. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it.

Flaky white flesh, pretty durned good smoked? That’s the very one. Cod are definitely yummy. If only there were enough that they weren’t a special order here. The closest that we have in the inland US are Burbot, and they’re just not the same. Of course, we do have the various black basses, so we’re all happy "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks.

(great report snipped)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

Response:

An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or not (possibly true, the weather description was familiar!), thanks Mike! I’m quite sure the temperature dropped five degress while I was reading this report. Next time when you go, could you make some room for a Dutchman? I can take my own rum.. Cheers, Herman (great report snipped, indeed!)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

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Question:

Dear Steve, I read your inquiry regarding the CMR-Reel and I’m sure you’ll be very pleased with it, should you decide to purchase one. You can get all the technical information about all Marryat products including the CMR reel on the Web page at: www.marryat.com Regards, Roger Ritter, Marryat staff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

Response:

When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

Response:

Question:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

Response:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

I would be interested to see one, just for the heck of it.  I don’t know if I’d ever actually use it.  That would just depend on the top speed.

Response:

yes!!   One difference, tho-   i use 2 ea  5′ peices of 15" lo-head irrigation pipe for pontoons and the frame allows me to be down in the water just over my legs.  the rear of the "system" has a mount for a small elec motor and a place for a big deep cycle battery.  Im close to 300# and belly boats are not made for guys my size!!!    However motorizing a "U" tube or regular floater has been done and a catalogue was available some 3 years ago.  Check with one of the local fly shops, or inquire to guides-  they have the exposure to things like that…..  if they are not too busy fishing!!! .

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Question:

______DEAR MARTIN:  Someone else is going to have to verify this, but I think I remember hearing someone mention that the U-Tube has an unseen dangerous aspect to it . . . but I don’t remember what it was. Possibly, someone else knows what that dangerous design feature is or if it groundless. George — MZ

Hi George As I recall there was a magazine article in Fly Fisherman in the late 1980’s in which tests were done in a swimming pool with various float tubes. The U Tube seems to be easier to tip over as I remember what I read. Those of you on this group with a better memory than me may know exactly which magazine and when. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At one time, I did some product testing for the Creek Company before they moved to their present location.  I’ve used their tubes and others….and am currently using one that was designed by the Wood River Company in Chico, CA.  I would recommend the Wood River products highly. Barry Brown Hello out there! Is there anyone in this newsgroup, who has experience, or know anything, about a belly boat from Creek Company. The type is an U-form (U-shape, I’m not quite sure about the right word). If you have any information on this boat, I would be happy to hear your opinion. — Martin B. Hedegaard V

Question:

An option to try is if you have some strike putty, make a new fly right on the spot. Just put the putty on a small nymph and see what happens. Good luck, Don Pisinski

Response:

An option to try is if you have some strike putty, make a new fly right on the spot. Just put the putty on a small nymph and see what happens.

Especially good if you have some "Dr. Juice Phish Pheromone Trout In Heat" flavored strike putty on hand. TimW (just typing that got me excited…)

Response:

Kinda makes me think I’m going to way too much trouble tying flies.   I was reading something a few weeks ago about a study done underwater in which some percent of "nymphs" were expelled by the fish because they were sticks, rocks, etc. Why not use a small popper instead of a strike indicator? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation?

Tony Route suggested tying up a small bomber pattern in the same colors as the strike indicator, and using that.  Bomber is a spun deer hair piece of work, nothing fancy.  I tied some up, but never used them yet.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Yes Pete, I’ve had it happen recently.  I was fishing a nymph on a local stocked stream in Central Massachusetts.  What was hitting mine was small brookies, not the quarry dujour, but trout none the less.  My indicator was yellow, so I switched over to a yellow dry fly.  I had a few hits, but the only yellow fly I had was too big for the 4" brookie’s mouth is only so big.  

Try using strike indicator putty.  Then if they start hitting your strike indicator, you can cover the nymph with the strike putty and away you go Carl carl

Response:

Why not use a small popper instead of a strike indicator? Or a 12 bore shotgun.  Such idiotic fish need eliminating before they

stagnate the gene pool. Bruce

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  <snip Pete It happens alot, especially on stocked streams and in ponds where fish are used to getting fed. However, I have also seen it on wild trout streams. The bobbing action of cork or foam on the surface can sometimes be a deadly attractor. In fact, there are some "flies" that are made from cork alone (no other dressing!) … they work, even on sophisticated wild trout. Why? I wish I knew. Bob Elliott (snip)

Hi, I have seen wild rainbows take some pretty large and gaudy strike indicators on spawning runs. It’s also quite common practice here to fish for browns with a dry fly as an indicator above a nymph. It’s sometimes an even bet as to which one gets taken by the fish. Ken Sims New Zealand

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? I’ve had tis happen also, and here are my guesses at what is happening. Everyone tells me that drag, and it could be micro drag that you can’t see, accounts for most refusals of dry flies. When you have a sunken nymph below a strike indicator, the line and nymph act like an anchor in the water column, making the strike indicator drift absolutely drag free. The fish go for it. You see that, and tie on a dry fly, with no anchoring nymph and line, so you get micro drag, and the fish don’t strike. Try using a largish dry fly as a strike indicator. Something bushy like a stimulator or large Elk Hair Caddis. Darryl Hayashida

Or a parachute adams with a pink post.  Works great for me Regards, Dick Hubbard

Response:

drag, and the fish don’t strike. Try using a largish dry fly as a strike indicator. Something bushy like a stimulator or large Elk Hair Caddis. Darryl Hayashida Or a parachute adams with a pink post.  Works great for me Regards, Dick Hubbard

Or just thread a hook thru the strike indicator. Not "pure", but effective. Jerry — Jerry Brown Web: http://rampages.onramp.net/~jbrown "When the Huns are at the gate, they ain’t gonna knock…"

Response:

I sometimes have success with a fly called the Serendipity.  It’s   midge pattern with a red or orange thorax.  I like to use Peacock herl for the body with fine silver or copper wire rib.  Drift it in the film or just under the surface. Your milage may vary. Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete It happens alot, especially on stocked streams and in ponds where fish are used to getting fed. However, I have also seen it on wild trout streams. The bobbing action of cork or foam on the surface can sometimes be a deadly attractor. In fact, there are some "flies" that are made from cork alone (no other dressing!) … they work, even on sophisticated wild trout. Why? I wish I knew. Bob Elliott

Instead of strike indicators, I use those braided (Chinese finger vice) line connector devices.  Fishing flats recently on Florida’s Nature Coast, I had redfish hit the connector, It is chartreuse.  I can see it, so I guess fish can too.  It must look like a worm of some type to fish. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Response:

I am not one to use strike indicators, largely because it reminds me too much of fishing for catfish as a child. However, I may suggest that you use a floating line and a sinking leader (or leader to which you have applied some sinkant). A combination of sinkant on one and of the line and a clean, floatant-treated line on the other end has worked for me in situations where others might have used strike indicators. Of course, I am also prone to overuse of shims when building, so my solutions are not always the most sound… W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete It happens alot, especially on stocked streams and in ponds where fish are used to getting fed. However, I have also seen it on wild trout streams. The bobbing action of cork or foam on the surface can sometimes be a deadly attractor. In fact, there are some "flies" that are made from cork alone (no other dressing!) … they work, even on sophisticated wild trout. Why? I wish I knew. Bob Elliott Instead of strike indicators, I use those braided (Chinese finger vice) line connector devices.  Fishing flats recently on Florida’s Nature Coast, I had redfish hit the connector, It is chartreuse.  I can see it, so I guess fish can too.  It must look like a worm of some type to fish. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete

Yes Pete, I’ve had it happen recently.  I was fishing a nymph on a local stocked stream in Central Massachusetts.  What was hitting mine was small brookies, not the quarry dujour, but trout none the less.  My indicator was yellow, so I switched over to a yellow dry fly.  I had a few hits, but the only yellow fly I had was too big for the 4" brookie’s mouth is only so big.   Maybe the indicators look like the pellets from the hatchery (although I doubt they stocked 4" fish). Isn’t it annoying?   Tight lines, Mark Cahill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation SNIPPED TO FIT: Isn’t it annoying? Tight lines, Mark Cahil I’ve also had ‘em go ater the knots in my leader when fishing drys in preference to the piece of work I was offering at the end of my tippet. (Usually a hint to go down to something a lot smaller.) zeno

I could jump into this discussion but think I best not as my views are miles apart  here.  However, I agree with ‘the hint,’ zeno. George Gehrke Mr. Gink

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation?

I’ve had tis happen also, and here are my guesses at what is happening. Everyone tells me that drag, and it could be micro drag that you can’t see, accounts for most refusals of dry flies. When you have a sunken nymph below a strike indicator, the line and nymph act like an anchor in the water column, making the strike indicator drift absolutely drag free. The fish go for it. You see that, and tie on a dry fly, with no anchoring nymph and line, so you get micro drag, and the fish don’t strike. Try using a largish dry fly as a strike indicator. Something bushy like a stimulator or large Elk Hair Caddis. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

Completely understand.  The notorious Indicator Hatch.   The recommended approach is to go home and tie up some strike indicator imitations and fish them on a dead drift.

I did this, and I’ll be goddamned if it didn’t work! After having a few "selective trout" break out of their feeding patterns to chase my styrofoam orange strike indicator, I went home to the vice, clamped in a number ten hook and wrapped an adhesive backed strike indicator around it. I probably could of stopped right there but, purist that I am, I wrapped a grizzly hackle around the head and tied it off. Vince Marinaro was probably convulsing in his grave as I trotted back to my (then) home water, leering like the Grinch on his sleighride to Whoville. Needless to say, it worked. Not on every fish (thank god) but it worked. It’s all in the orange. Next time you’re tying an Adams, substitute an orange floss body for the usual muskrat. You didn’t hear it from me. Spinolio

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  <snip Pete It happens alot, especially on stocked streams and in ponds where fish are used to getting fed. However, I have also seen it on wild trout streams. The bobbing action of cork or foam on the surface can sometimes be a deadly attractor. In fact, there are some "flies" that are made from cork alone (no other dressing!) … they work, even on sophisticated wild trout. Why? I wish I knew. Bob Elliott

In North Georgia most streams are stocked and trophy streams are fed. Although I have had the same experience on streams with natural production which are not fed and the 6" to 10" fish likely are generations away from any fish that was. One particular stream was exclusively browns. I attribute it to the fact that trout are opportunists, curious about there surroundings and lacking hands, they put it in their mouth to find out what it is. Could be a meal and they may be few and far between. When I first began fishing I took a few fish for consumption. One such fish upon examining the stomach contents was full of some type of hard green seeds that had been floating downstream. Not only did the fish not find it offnesive, it continued to gulp the seeds which were also further along in the intestine in much the same condition as those in the stomach. I suppose the fish ‘felt’ full whether it was nutritious or not. The past weekend I was fishing worm imitation, floating it along the bottom in a clear tail out and watched a fish ‘take’ it, or so I thought. I missed, but as the the leaves are falling here, the fish grabbed a leaf and held it in its mouth a little longer than you would expect before realizing what it had. Almost as much fun to observe as to catch! regards, Joe Webb Atlanta Mac User Group (AMUG)

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete

It happens alot, especially on stocked streams and in ponds where fish are used to getting fed. However, I have also seen it on wild trout streams. The bobbing action of cork or foam on the surface can sometimes be a deadly attractor. In fact, there are some "flies" that are made from cork alone (no other dressing!) … they work, even on sophisticated wild trout. Why? I wish I knew. Bob Elliott

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete

Put a hook on it!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete Yes Pete, I’ve had it happen recently.  I was fishing a nymph on a local stocked stream in Central Massachusetts.  What was hitting mine was small brookies, not the quarry dujour, but trout none the less.  My indicator was yellow, so I switched over to a yellow dry fly.  I had a few hits, but the only yellow fly I had was too big for the 4" brookie’s mouth is only so big. Maybe the indicators look like the pellets from the hatchery (although I doubt they stocked 4" fish). Isn’t it annoying? Tight lines, Mark Cahil I’ve also had ‘em go ater the knots in my leader when fishing drys in preference to the piece of work I was offering at the end of my tippet. (Usually a hint to go down to something a lot smaller.) zeno

I have had it happen with a yellow strike indicator during hopper season.  Switch to a hopper usually works then. YMMV. Dan — Daniel J. Gaspar                        Department of Chemistry (773) 702-7209                          University of Chicago

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation?

   I don’t know the entomology of this, but it is common experience. I always carry an orange humpy or two for this situation. They even make pretty good strike indicators. Joel A. Tobias 2941 Doctors Park Dr. Medford, OR 97504

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete Yes Pete, I’ve had it happen recently.  I was fishing a nymph on a local stocked stream in Central Massachusetts.  What was hitting mine was small brookies, not the quarry dujour, but trout none the less.  My indicator was yellow, so I switched over to a yellow dry fly.  I had a few hits, but the only yellow fly I had was too big for the 4" brookie’s mouth is only so big. Maybe the indicators look like the pellets from the hatchery (although I doubt they stocked 4" fish). Isn’t it annoying? Tight lines, Mark Cahil

I’ve also had ‘em go ater the knots in my leader when fishing drys in preference to the piece of work I was offering at the end of my tippet. (Usually a hint to go down to something a lot smaller.) zeno

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete

In line with Tim’s comment I often use an orange Bug (deer hair clipped sinker shaped with a hackle wound through) as an indicator, and it has landed fish. Paul

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation?

Completely understand.  The notorious Indicator Hatch.   The recommended approach is to go home and tie up some strike indicator imitations and fish them on a dead drift. TimW

Response:

I’m certain that I’m not the only one to have this happen: I was fishing a nymph on a floating line with a small orange strike indicator.  As I drifted the flies through a likely looking spot, a nice trout came up and hammered the cork indicator.  After a couple more "takes" I switched to a dry fly. Nothing.  I switched to an egg pattern in  a similar color. Nothing.  I put the indicator back on. WHaM!  What have others done in this situation? Pete

Response:

Question:

Hello all!         I was hoping to try out Piru Creek sometime in September. I have never fished it and have no idea what it is like, but as it is only a few hours from my home, I thought it would be neat to try. Has anybody out there fished this creek? If so, can you give me some tips on what parts of the creek are most productive and what patterns and sizes to use? Any help would be greatly appreciated.                                 Thanks,                                         Jeff

Response:

Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

Response:

Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

I have found that it is better to go to the Mammoth area and take a whole weekend or go to the Kern above the lake.  I have fished a lot on Piru–it is not bad EARLY in the morning (reprodicible hatch–take 18-22 gnat imitations and small Adams along with small gold rib hares ears) abd youll miss the gill net/picnic/trash producing crowd and see  mainly  anglers (fly fishers at that).  There are usually  fish allover the place (small 8-12 max) but I have had the most luck downstream about 2-4 miles or so as well as upstream in the "catch-and-release"  (also known as the "gill-net-as-much-as-you-can-and-bait-dunk-for-the-rest" section to some of the anglers). If you do go up there plan on leaving early (ie 10 or 11 AM), bring lots of water and avoid the heat. Good Luck and tight lines– Aaron

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I fish Piru all the time.  The key to survival is the sacrifice car and 2lbs kevlar fishing vest.  I was there last in june and the water flow was down to a trickle.  Small fish only.  Does anyone know if there is a minimum flow for this tailwater?

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again. Contrary to what you must be thinking, I am sympathetic with the plight of this creek and the anglers who care about it.  It seems that the fundamental problem has been simply one of a resource that can not handle the incredible urban demand for it.  Or, maybe it has handled it beautifully.  If it is a put and take, C&K fishery completely, then I would call it a ’sacrificial watershed’.   I call Lake Powell a ’sacrificial watershed’.  That is, think of just how intenseley it is used.  Now consider, all of these motorhead boaters would be *somewhere else* (if not for Powell), would they not ?   All of these C&K gang members on Piru would be somewhere else, would they not ? So, make it C&R…pure C&R, protect those little stockers and what have you got ? Well, a crowd, still, albeit a more civilized crowd ? And what about those displaced C&K Gang members ?  Where would they be ?  Somewhere else, to be sure, maybe they’d be poaching at pyramid ?  Education ? Eradication ? Considered…but no…people as a whole are just too fucked up.  Get enough of them together and you have problems irregardless of regulations. How many gang bangers read the 1996 California Fishing Regs ? The answer lies in neither C&R nor C&K regulations, but in the acceptance of the fact that there are just too many damned people. Now, what are we going to do about that ?   TimW C&K Gangbanger

Trouble is Tim that this stream’s C&R section has a strain of native rainbows that has not been diluted with stocker blood. They are above a waterfall and thus isolated from the stocker filled section below. I agree that the fishing pressure is to much, but only because the gill net crews sweep the stream when ever the fish grow to larger than 8". The state’s solution of C&R on the upper section means that on most days only one or two people are fishing this section. But it is only 1.5 miles long. So when 300 fish are removed with gills nets, years worth of restoration efforts are destroyed. Solution to me is to remove some "nuts" to reduce gene-pool dilution. Hanging a few poachers from nearby trees and not removing them until their bones fall away also might work. If I could, I would have their pubic hair turned transformed into treblehooks. Or if one isn’t bloodthirsty, how about 40 hours a week for 6 months working on restoration work on the very stream they "f" up. Don B. PS – Yes, there’s too many people, have you called Dr. Death? Or are you looking for volunteers? Not me, I learn not to volunteer in the military.

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The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again.

Contrary to what you must be thinking, I am sympathetic with the plight of this creek and the anglers who care about it.  It seems that the fundamental problem has been simply one of a resource that can not handle the incredible urban demand for it.  Or, maybe it has handled it beautifully.  If it is a put and take, C&K fishery completely, then I would call it a ’sacrificial watershed’.   I call Lake Powell a ’sacrificial watershed’.  That is, think of just how intenseley it is used.  Now consider, all of these motorhead boaters would be *somewhere else* (if not for Powell), would they not ?   All of these C&K gang members on Piru would be somewhere else, would they not ? So, make it C&R…pure C&R, protect those little stockers and what have you got ? Well, a crowd, still, albeit a more civilized crowd ? And what about those displaced C&K Gang members ?  Where would they be ?  Somewhere else, to be sure, maybe they’d be poaching at pyramid ?  Education ? Eradication ? Considered…but no…people as a whole are just too fucked up.  Get enough of them together and you have problems irregardless of regulations. How many gang bangers read the 1996 California Fishing Regs ? The answer lies in neither C&R nor C&K regulations, but in the acceptance of the fact that there are just too many damned people. Now, what are we going to do about that ?   TimW C&K Gangbanger

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

George, The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again. Also didn’t I tell you to wear your Kevlar Gore-Tex waders? The bullet-proof yet breathable models. <g Also, drive a sacrifical car if LA’s boy scouts are around and about. But do try to fish with a friend. Don’t challenge a bait fishermen in the single barbless hook C&R section unless you’re packing "iron". Just move on. Normally not a problem during peak fishing weekend times. Biggest problem today (9-4-96) is the Castaic fire has burned 25,00 acres near this stream. Since the fire was burning all weekend and I-5 was closed several times, I haven’t got up to see if the creek is still there.  So fishing might be for pre-cooked fish or for small fish only (fish fry). <g The Sierra Pacific Fly Fishers (SPFF) should be commended for trying to keep the stream up but without money from the state for a game warden the poaching will be an on-going problem. If anyone that still  goes there, try some Royal Wulff’s or other attractor flies. Bead-head’s also work well. It’s a shame because this could be a nice little trout stream. Don Burns

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Question:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Thread – tan Tail – pheasant tail tips Body – pheasant tail fibers wrapped like herl Ribbing – thin copper wire Thorax – copper wire (for bulk and added weight) over-wrapped with peacock               herl Wing case – pheasant tail with fibers divided at the head and turned back on               either side as "legs" (trimmed to 2/3 body length) – can be tied as bead head or with variations (flashback, mylar ribbing, etc.) Good fishing!  J. Rice

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materials: cock ring-neck pheasant tail, peacock herl, fine copper wire, black thread, 1X nymph hooks (pretty fancy, huh?) tie thread base, tie tail using 4-8 barbules from tails feather depending on size equal to 1/2 length of hook shank (no longer) with 3-4 wraps of thread; tie in copper wire, wrap tail fibres forward to midpoint; counter wrap copper wire rib, tie off and trim (your thread is now just forweard of the midpoint of the shank); fold back fibres over top of fly and tie down with a couple of wraps; tie in peacock herl and wrap a full thorax; fold fibers forward over the herl forming the case, tie down with 3-4 wraps of thread; divide fibres and fold back along the sides to form legs, tie down and whip finish. I don’t think I left anything out. A little practice and you should be able to tie 16-20 flies per hour with a rotary vice. Personal variations permitted. Hope this helps. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I’m not sure what a book might say, but I’ve tied thousands with the following: cooper wire Pheasant Tail Fibers Peacock Herl Lead underbody (if allowed) Tie in tail of 3-6 tail fibers, Tie in a length of pheasant tail fibers 1/8′ or so wide and 1 1/2 times the length of hook shank and wrap fibers forward to 2/3 point of shank (do not cut butts)  rib with wire forward tie down with thread wrap peacock in for thorax and bring pheasant over top of hook for wing case tie down pull a few fiber out to side as legs tie off your done. Good luck, Great Nymph

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Pheasant tails, peacock hurl, fine copper, hook and thread. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

The original English tie by Frank Sawyer uses only PT herl and fine copper wire (i.e. no thread.)  If your wire is fine enough, it’s all you need. (A cheap source is transformers from broken electrical gadgets.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Hi Johnny Here is the dressing as written by Frank Sawyer in the 1950s.  Sawyer was a river keeper and is the man credited with the invention of the PTN. This dressing may not be what you were expecting as it uses fine copper wire rather than thread.  Although that sounds difficult, I have dressed some of these myself and it wasn’t that hard.  They were also VERY effective.  Good luck. Russ         Now as to the dressings.  The materials used are quite easy for         most, who are interested, to obtain.  To represent the several         olive nymphs my pattern of the pheasant tail can be constructed         on three different hook sizes, No 00, No 0 and No 1*, and I         make no claim that the use of pheasant tail fibres for the body         of nymphs or flies is original.  But what I do claim is the         manner of the base building, ballasting, and the tying in of         the pheasant tail fibres with fine copper wire, of a colouring         to suit and tone in which the general dressing.  Artificial         nymphs tied in my way are not difficult to make, and the simple         instruction I am able to give should be sufficient for anyone         with nimble fingers to follow.         First grip the selected hook firmly in the vice and then give         the hook an even covering from bend to eye with fine         red-coloured copper wire.  The wire we use is little thicker         than a human hair and this one can obtain at little cost from         various sources.  It is used for the windings in small         transformers, dynamos, or electric motors.  After the hook has         been covered and the wire locked so that it cannot spin around         the hook shank, wind the wire in even turns to the point where         the thorax of the nymph is to be constructed, and there build         up a hump.  Then wind the wire back to the hook bend and let it         dangle.  Wire is much easier to use than silk as it will not         spin off or loosen if the tension is relaxed.         The wire with its red colour forms the base for the dressing         and at the same time gives additional weight to the hook.  I         dispense entirely with the use of silk and use the fine wire to         tie in the dressing.  The wire is now dangling from the hook         bend.  Take the four centre fibres of the browny-red cock         pheasant tail feather.  Hold the fibres by the tips and then         tie them on the with the wire so that the fine ends stand out         about one eighth of an inch from the hook bend.  They form the         tails, or the set of the nymph.  Then spin the four fibres of         the pheasant tail on to the wire so that they are reinforced,         and then lap fibres and wire evenly to the hook eye.  Hold the         wire firmly, separate the fibres from it and then wind the wire         to the point behind which the thorax is to be made.  Bend the         fibres back and fasten for the first lap of the thorax, then         forward to the eye of the hook again.  Fasten here securely         with half a dozen turns of wire and then cut away spare         fibres.         Our finished effort should have a very pronounced thorax which         suggests the bulging wing cases, and a body which tapers neatly         to the tail.  With the tail fibres spread, all is complete.         It will be noted by those who follow these instructions that         the upper part of the thorax which imitates the wing cases is         much darker than the rest of the body.  This is brought about         by the lapping back and forth of the butt ends of the pheasant         tail fibres.  If wire and fibres are wound evenly on the hook,         the spare ends should have the dark tone which is a feature in         the butts of these fibres.  This gives a very natural         appearance to the thorax.  The fibres of pheasant tail vary in         length, and indeed texture, from the butt of the feather to the         tip, so when dressing a nymph one can select lengths most         suitable for the size of the hook, bearing in mind that when         the body is made the dark part is ready to use for lapping.         When wet this pattern has a translucent effect and one can see         the red of the wire showing through the pheasant tail fibres.         The artificial, so constructed, has a very good entry to water         and will sink deeply when required.  The hook point is not         muffled or guarded in any way by hackles or by the dressing,         and a slight lift of the rod will drive it home. * Modern sizes 14, 15 and 16

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

The nymph is tied with copper wire as thread.  Leaving a long tag, wrap to the bend.  Tie in about 6 pheasant tail fibers, leaving the tips for the tail.  Wrap the wire to the start of the thorax (2/3 up the shank), then create a body by wrapping the butts of the pheasant tail.  Tie them off with the wire, then use the long tag to rib the body.  Tie off the copper ribbing with the copper "thread" then trim everything.  Tie in a larger bunch of pheasant tail fibers, with the tip length about hook shank length, then some peacock herl (2-3).  Wrap the wire almost to the eye, then back to the herl, then forward again.  This weights the nymph, so wrap according to what you want.  Wrap the herl to create a plump thorax, tie it off, and trim it.  Pull the fibers over the herl to create a wing case, then pull about three to each side and create legs.  Wrap a copper head, and finish. BTW, this nymph REALLY works if fished deep.

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

This is just funny enough that I’ve got to share it with ya’ll. I’ve long been a collector of road kills, much to the chagrin of both my wife and my oldest son, Michael.  Well, last month, while riding my bicycle to work…. you guessed it– I found a road kill. Well, sort of.  It was a coil that some technician had probably set on top of his car before pulling out of the parking lot.  And, it had been run over a few times.  It was definitely dead! Then, along comes this whole discussion of the original PT pattern. Lo and behold, the coil is just the thing for the wire component of the original PT pattern.  To make it even better, a hunter friend gave me two pheasant hides this year.  I’m tying nymphs for the price of the hook! So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^) Tight pants^h^h^h^hlines! Charley

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Speaking of personal variations: For the thorax, I like to dub.  I use a dubbing loop, and stuff a couple of small bunches of selected fur in.  I keep the guard hairs in with the soft underfur.  Then I twist up the loop and wrap.  Then pull the butt ends of the PT over top as a wing case and tie off.  The guard hairs in the dub look like legs/assorted appendages and give the fly a bit more life. Another variation: Don’t put a wing case on.  I.E., tie it "in the round".  This is a philosophical thing.  In the vise, we’re always thinking of the top and bottom of the fly, but this may not be how it will behave in the water.  There is a philosophy that suggests that an upside down nymph is as upsetting to a trout as any other "error" when tying, for example some type of pure "match the hatch" dry fly. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

Hi Johnny, The Pheasant Tail is included in my fly tying web site. If you’d like, it can be found at… WWW Fly Tyer:    http://www.ns.net/~barnard (this is a non-commercial site)  :-) Look in the category "modern nymph". You will find both a recipe and step-by-step instructions. I hope this helps,    Alan.

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So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^)

That’s the way it should be; it’s out of hand when it’s the other way around ! One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

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One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Well, Russ, it just so happens I know the answer to this because I found it today while researching an article for my fly fishing club newsletter. American Angler ran a five part series of articles called "Modern Dyes and Dyeing for Fly Tiers", by Wm. T. Roubal, from May, ‘94 through Jan, ‘95.  The one on bleaching was the last one, Jan. ‘95. Charley

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might even try that with flashabou wing casing.  Whatever way you tie it, the PT just never stops producin!!! g

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One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might

PT inventor Frank Sawyer also made a similar nymph using grey goose herls (improvised on the spot in N. Sweden, if I remember right). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I am a member of the Canadian team to the World Fly Fishing Championships in Galway, Ireland.  They will be held in September of this year.  The venue lakes are Lough Mask and Lough Corrib.   I am looking for information about patterns and feed organisms. If anyone has fished this area and can help me, I would be very grateful.

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i just posted an article on those lakes   email me direct if you need more info. I have fished mask on numerous occasions. what a great venue. –

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Question:

hmmmmm an angleworm… does that work better that a dry fly !!!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,

I would be inclined to agree too, except that I like to catch fish :^) Surf fishing is the most aesthetic way to catch surf species, but the pier has it beat all to hell for results.  Plus, I always get leery of the us vs them attitude implicit in the excerpt abobe; as though one kind of fishing is better than another, or one kind of fisherman is better than another.    The line beginning with "There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on it’s followers." discounts too easily the fly fisherman on his stream chasing the mighty salmon or trout,  or the river smallmouth wader casting his jigs and plugs for that one bronzeback of a lifetime, or any of the other scenarios that we pick up over a lifetime of fishing.   I have glided across a remote canadian lake at sunset, trolling for lake trout against a background of tall pines and the calls of loons.   Is that any ‘better’ than battling your first big pike, or straining against a slammer blue in the Carolina surf, or seeing an irridescent dolphin (mahi-mahi) leap out of an azure ocean as it tries to shake your hook?     Don’t get too hung up on that beach,  you can miss a lot of great fishing, and miss meeting some good people too. I can agree with the premise though, it is exhilirating to be standing on a beach on a crisp fall morning, with a rising tide, and casting plugs or bucktails for speckled trout in the trough.  Or wading the trough in the summer, casting a strip of squid for a fat summer flounder.  Or casting spoons, bucktails, or even bare hooks with a strip of cloth for rampaging bluefish as they churn the water to a bloody froth.   The only problem is the dry periods between bites, the inability to get to the fish that are beyond the next bar, and having to haul all your stuff onto the beach. Terry —    DoD# 541                           |  no matter how good it looks."                                         |         ‘Poison’ Ivy Rorschach  

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     In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,      Mark Rosen

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