Question:

What is a clave?

Response:

What is a clave?

It is where a bunch of people get together and discuss/practice a common interest, in the case of ROFFians, fly fishing. Supposedly. Havening never been to a ROFF clave I cannot attest to what goes on there, but there are rumors . . . Clave is short for conclave. HTH, Russell

Response:

Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

A clave, by any other name . . . john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions.

Response:

What is a clave?

You will need to buy the September issue of American Angler to find out.

Response:

Question:

You are not going to want to hear this but . . . . . . you are going to have to become a better fisher if you want to catch larger fish in a Westside river within reach of the Seattle metro. Specifically, you will have to learn to work with the seasonal movements of the fish, the seasonal scouring of the rivers, etc. And you will need to learn to fish the Salt for Silvers and Cutts. If you want it easier or to learn faster, hire a guide and fish the Yak, or the Coast with Chris Bellows if he will have you. You will also do better if you walk in more, avoid the most populat places on weekends, become better with the map, stalk and hunt rather than plop and wait. Move. etc. And then there is always going very light and enjoying the small fish. They are mostly natives by the way. In terms of river tactics, focus more on improving your presentation, than acquiring every pattern imaginable. Dave

Response:

The problem you are facing is that the majority of the fish in those west side rivers are sea run and what you are most likely catching is steelhead or salmon smolts.  What you want to do is find them on their way back in. The Wynoochee river used to have a pretty good summer steelhead run as well as the Kalama.  The North Fork of the Stilliguamish is FF only and has summer runs as well, but it wasn’t much good when I lived over there. Starting in July you can catch sea run cutthroat in the lower section of the Stilly.  When I lived there the South Fork of the Stilly was stocked every summer, but I don’t know if they still do that.  The pink salmon come up the rivers every other year starting in August and those are a lot of fun on a fly rod.  This is the off year I think though.  If you have your heart set on trout, you might think about getting a float tube and fishing the lakes. There are some guys who can catch those sea-runs on dry flies (I was never one of them), but for the most part it’s below the surface.  Nothing like the eager cutts on dry flies that you are used to. I too grew up in North Idaho/Eastern Washington.  Moved to the Seattle area for fifteen years.  Got absolutely sick and tired of all the people, so I moved back.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brief description of situation: I grew up in Northern Idaho, used to fly fish with the folks. We’d go up to the Lochsa, Marble Creek, the St. Maries, etc… We’d fish for native cutthroat, barbless, catch & release. I now live in Seattle. Recently I’ve found myself with lots of free-time (read laid ff  ) and a desire to get out in the woods a little. Here’s my problem: A friend and I have gone out fly fishing a number of times and have been nothing but skunked. Not quite completely, I pulled in a lot of 3-4 inchers at the Skookumchuck but other than that we’ve had no luck on Skate creek, the Clear & Muddy forks of the Cowlitz, the Green, Snoqualmie MF and SF… We haven’t seen any surfacing or fish at any of these places other than the Skookumchuck. Now listen, we’re beginners and we know this and do not expect miracles… We also know that the waters of many rivers/streams/creeks are very high right now. But, what we’d really like to do is go somewhere where we stand a decent chance of catching (and releasing) a few nice trout, hell anything over 6 inches will seem gargantuan to us. Can anyone help us? I used to be a native trout snob… It seems they’re a little scarcer here than in Idaho… I know no good fishery needs more pressure here in Western Washington, and I know everyone likes to keep favorites secret… But it’d do my buddy and I world of good to get some positive reinforcement by just catching a few. Are there any currently fishable trout streams in Western Washington? Thanks a million to anyone who responds.

Response:

Brief description of situation: I grew up in Northern Idaho, used to fly fish with the folks. We’d go up to the Lochsa, Marble Creek, the St. Maries, etc… We’d fish for native cutthroat, barbless, catch & release. I now live in Seattle. Recently I’ve found myself with lots of free-time (read laid ff  ) and a desire to get out in the woods a little. Here’s my problem: A friend and I have gone out fly fishing a number of times and have been nothing but skunked. Not quite completely, I pulled in a lot of 3-4 inchers at the Skookumchuck but other than that we’ve had no luck on Skate creek, the Clear & Muddy forks of the Cowlitz, the Green, Snoqualmie MF and SF… We haven’t seen any surfacing or fish at any of these places other than the Skookumchuck. Now listen, we’re beginners and we know this and do not expect miracles… We also know that the waters of many rivers/streams/creeks are very high right now. But, what we’d really like to do is go somewhere where we stand a decent chance of catching (and releasing) a few nice trout, hell anything over 6 inches will seem gargantuan to us. Can anyone help us? I used to be a native trout snob… It seems they’re a little scarcer here than in Idaho… I know no good fishery needs more pressure here in Western Washington, and I know everyone likes to keep favorites secret… But it’d do my buddy and I world of good to get some positive reinforcement by just catching a few. Are there any currently fishable trout streams in Western Washington? Thanks a million to anyone who responds. begin 666 wink.gif M^00%/ “`"P““`#P`/`($“`#__P#W[_````".(0]F<0`%B(UIY:GA2 M#[0)0C6(I!.*HSINY%C&L=L]BJ?17<1=_NY$"UWH?HVS1ZG4;“"’Y 3;W5T(&UO<F4N`5534U!#350`.P“ ` end

Response:

Question:

<SNIP Good for you. Here’s a bit more. Don’t call a perfectly reasonable post by a valued contributor "horse crap" and don’t try to justify a clueless and moronic scold of same by citing every friggin’ fish you’ve ever hooked as your bona fides.

<SNIP Thanks for the support, it is most appreciated. Some things are indeed not worth wasting time on though, and I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! TL MC

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account!

Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

I don’t understand why this is even being discussed. With Ken’s mild-mannered approach to other’s feelings, I can’t imagine anyone contemplating even a slight flame. Tim (yeah, I know, I’m a fuckin’ moron)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP So I guess there’s more than one view  around here. Gary Oh there are lots of views around here. Big game fishing sounds very attractive, but it is unlikely that I will ever do any. Like some other things, bonefishing, or stalking flats or mangroves for various exciting fish. My back would in any case almost certainly not be up to it. I have enjoyed reading about it, or hearing various reports from time to time though. I fear dry-fly fishing is a much more sedate affair. Just as exciting and interesting in its own way though. I hope you get the opportunity to do some.

Hi Mike, you are right about dryfly fishing being just as exciting as saltwater flyfishing.  I remember my first trip saltwater flyfishing: 3 weeks in Grand Cayman and a lot of small tarpon to 25lbs.  As the trip was drawing in, I started cringing as to how I would be able to get back on terms with the 1lb wild brownies in my local stream.  Lo and behold,  after 20 mins on the stream I had completely forgotten the saltwater battles, as I was totally immersed in fishing the dryfly.

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

That

Question:

Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

Response:

shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck. — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

"Nick C"

asks: Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

I like Plano.  You can get them in sizes big enough to carry the contents of a one bedroom apartment. But, I do like two or three smaller boxes.  I fish for different species of fish, and bringing along a ton of bass stuff to fish for trout is just too much.  Now, I may keep the bass box in the car or RV, just in case, but hauling everything you own to go catch a few bluegills doesn’t work for me. I even like the little ones about as big as two packs of cigs to carry when I go for a short hike.  Big enough to carry some extra hooks, sinkers, lures, flies, etc, and go in a pocket. But I do like Plano, and for a couple of bucks, send in the deal and get your name on a real brass plate for the top.  Makes you look like Like Roland Martin.  And to really look like Roland, bang your shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

"Steve Huber"

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck.

I’ll bet that Roland has done it at least once.  Maybe not on camera. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

This doesnt relate much to what youre talking about, but If you take advice from the guys on TV and have like 5 small boxes for each kind of fish, you will end up going fishing and sure enough there will be people catching 20lb cats all around you when you only have your bass equipment with you.  or you take a bunch of topwater stuff and the bass are biting on the bottom……man that pisses me off so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod with a huge spinning reel just in case the huge carp happen to be biting.

Response:

so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod

One of those shopping carts works good to haul all the stuff. Be sure to remove the market’s name. Steve  ;-) Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Response:

Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Response:

Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

I mostly freshwater fish, so I have two tackle boxes, one for fresh and a smaller one for salt. When I get too much freshwater gear and outgrow my box, I transfer all my saltwater stuff into it and give the smallest one to Goodwill. I’ve gone through about 4, and my freshwater box is now at the largest size Plano you can get without having dual side opening trays. I think I’m going to be keeping my current one for awhile Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Mega Man fans visit alt.games.megaman Quint’s page of Rockman manga scans: http://www.crosswinds.net/~sakugarne

Response:

Question:

I was in Orlando on business a couple of months ago. I looked in the Yellow Pages for fishing guides and was just overwhelmed. There were so many that I just couldn’t pick one. Orlando is such a tourist trap that I felt my chances of picking a loser at random were too great. My only other trip to Orlando was about 45 years ago when I was a child. I recall it as a sleepy little place, but it’s sure changed, and much for the worse. If there’s anything in Orlando that isn’t a Disney-like fake I never found it. Their convention center is so big you’d better take a bicycle or roller skates. What’s happened to much of Florida is sad. Do we really need umpteen billion people on the planet? All the good places are being trashed, one after the other. Pretty soon you’ll have to be a billionare to enjoy anything decent. Rant mode off. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Florida has many sites on the net.  Check out Florida in the Unitred States section at http://www.davisbrown.com/ffgeo.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to Orlando, Florida the 30 of January and I am going to stay there for 6 weeks. I am considering to bring my flyrod, if the flyfishing are good. I’m also looking for a good flyshop with a wide range. If you can help me, I would appreciate it. Tight lines. Jon Arne

Response:

Stick with the Fly Fisherman.  That is unless your in the market for expensive clothing, then by all means Downeast. Regards, David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By all means bring the rods, there are some great places to FF within an hour or two of orlando.Both fresh and saltwater.Try these: The Fly Fisherman Inc. 1213 N. Orange Avenue Orlando, FL 32804 (407) 898 1989 and Downeast 538 Park Avenue South Orlando-Winter Park, FL 32789 (407) 645 5100 — Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish, goes home through the alley. Anonymous http://fish-n-net.com/

Response:

I am going to Orlando, Florida the 30 of January and I am going to stay there for 6 weeks. I am considering to bring my flyrod, if the flyfishing are good. I’m also looking for a good flyshop with a wide range. If you can help me, I would appreciate it. Tight lines. Jon Arne

Response:

By all means bring the rods, there are some great places to FF within an hour or two of orlando.Both fresh and saltwater.Try these: The Fly Fisherman Inc. 1213 N. Orange Avenue Orlando, FL 32804 (407) 898 1989 and Downeast 538 Park Avenue South Orlando-Winter Park, FL 32789 (407) 645 5100 — Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish, goes home through the alley. Anonymous http://fish-n-net.com/

Response:

I am going to Orlando, Florida the 30 of January and I am going to stay there for 6 weeks. I am considering to bring my flyrod, if the flyfishing are good. I’m also looking for a good flyshop with a wide range. If you can help me, I would appreciate it. Tight lines. Jon Arne

   !’st off, the Orlando area is comprised of other towns nestled together. Being north of Orlando proper 2 shops come to mind, an Orvis (small shop) in Winter Park, there is a larger shop just north of the junction of 434 and 17/92 and I also believe there is a shop in one of the Disney villages. Have no idea from your post as to the type fishing you are interested in. From Orlando you have the choice of the space coast flats on the east coast to bass and panfish in the St.Johns to the north to the Gulf coast to the west. Orlando also has an extensive group of lakes in it’s area ranging from small 1 acre to 20 or more acres, lake info is available from the Fl. game and fish commision on thier site under the heading "fish orlando". Also lake Okachoby (headwaters of the glades(biiiig bass) isn’t all that far. That time span is rather early in the season for fresh but you never know. Good luck.                                                            John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

I’ll be in southern Alabama in July–Eastern Mobile Bay/Gulf Shores area–and in addition to surf fishing hope to do some flyfishing as well. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any locations to recommend? I’ve noted a Weeks Bay wildlife area, as well as some other bays and lagoons…what’s running in July and what flys will call up the fish? Any info is appreciated, and thanks.         JK/Newport, KY

Response:

I’ll be in southern Alabama in July–Eastern Mobile Bay/Gulf Shores area–and in addition to surf fishing hope to do some flyfishing as well. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any locations to recommend? I’ve noted a Weeks Bay wildlife area, as well as some other bays and lagoons…what’s running in July and what flys will call up the fish? Any info is appreciated, and thanks.

I have fished Fort Morgan & Gulf Shores area for many years.  A few years ago I began Saltwater Fly fishing with decent success.  If you fish early in the morning and late in the afternoon you stand a chance of catching Bluefish, Skipjack (ladyfish), occasional redfish, and speckled trout.  Mostly fish clouser minnows, and basically any minnow pattern in white or yellow base color.  We have had much luck attaching a popper to the line about 18 to 24 inches above the fly.  If you happen to catch a school of feeding fish close to the beach, you are in for much excitement.  Plan on using a shooting taper line or a floating line with a sink tip.  The wind can be tough at times and casting is a bear.  Best of Luck,  BCC

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for some new patterns to try on the huge mass of stripers that very reliable sources say are headed towards capecod. If any one has any interesting stuff that has a good history of working please let me know.

Response:

I’m looking for some new patterns to try on the huge mass of stripers that very reliable sources say are headed towards capecod. If any one has any interesting stuff that has a good history of working please let me know.

I’m a big fan of the Ray’s Fly and the Bonderew Bucktail.  Killed them at Chatham the last two Junes. Bob Scott

Response:

TR…Before I started guiding I started using my own brand of yellow clouser. First of all I tied it upside down. In other words hook up, eyes on the lower side. I started flyfishing in the salt in Rhode Island up in Narragansett Bay. Lots of rocks to grab flies. Having the hook up avoids loss to rocky bottoms. Stripers tend to hug the bottom more often than not and I found I spent more time releasing them then tying on new flies. My clousers are also tied like tarpon flies, tied in at the tail which avoids the ugly recurring problem of the material wrapping around the hook shank. My pattern uses four yellow hackle three inches long, six or eight  pieces of silver crystal flash  and a small amount of yellow fish hair. Turn it over and tie in the eyes. I use flaming pink floss to tie the fly. It allows you to really tie the materials securely without worrying about breaking the thread. Believe me it works. My clients have been using it and it out performs many other patterns I’ve tried. Good luck this season…Capt. Ted Bobetsky (http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for some new patterns to try on the huge mass of stripers that very reliable sources say are headed towards capecod. If any one has any interesting stuff that has a good history of working please let me know.

Response:

Question:

As with anything having to do with this sport, get the best you can afford. Metz, Spencer, and a half-dozen other growers often sell half capes for about the same price as the next grade down. Unless you are tying up to professional prodution a good #2 grade half will last through several seasons. Everyone resents the initial outlay of $$$ for a good cape, but the payoff is you don’t purchase them very often. Cabela’s and other supply houses also sell decent genetic necks that are quite useful, if limited in size and color.

Response:

how bout finding some fishin’ buddies to split some necks with….that how I started out. some times stores will sell you split necks, if you take classes from them…they can always use the other half in class or for production tying. i agree with the other respondent, however, buy the best you can..you’ll be disappointed with the #3’s for drys size 14 and smaller. happy tying,….and DON"T GIVE UP!! there aren’t enuff of us out there! #:)#  Larry Medina

Response:

Hoffman Super Saddle. Tons of real long feathers 10 down to 18 or so. Can tie two or three flies per feather.

Response:

I need some new hackle, I’m getting better at tieing, and the hackle from the kit sucks.  I would like to hear some opinions on which Hackle to buy.   I am leaning towards Metz grade #3 in Grizzly from Orvis (29 bucks), anyone know of a better deal let me know.  Thanks. Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS! The factors that determine a hackle grade are numerous.  A neck or saddle are graded on the number of usable hackles, length of hackle, color, webbiness, stem diameter and uniformity of barbule lengtht. Now the problem arises when you compare hackles from two different companies.  A #2 Hoffman  may be better than a #1Metz metz.  Will a #3 be "softer"?  Well yes it may have a little, or a lot, more web depending on the company.  A #3 Hoffman will tie a good dry fly, but some of the other companies it may not.   The best thing to do is to inspect it carefully before you buy it.  Generally it can be said that you will get what you pay for. About 7 years ago I bought my first Hoffman saddle and now I am hooked.  I have currently 5 Hoffman saddles and 3 necks.  They are the only ones I use for my dries.  I know they are kinda expensive and I have a tight budget, but they are worth it.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to tie a good fly with a shitty feather.   Good Luck, Marty

Hi Marty, I agree. Hoffman is only company that has saddle hackle that is small and stiff for trout dries. In the old days, we always used rooster saddles for wets and rooster necks for dries. Henry Hoffman changed that. Metz saddles are better for wet flies as they don’t seem to be stiff enough for dries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

  <big snip   Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.

  Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10. Charlie

Response:

writes: Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10.

I’m not yet as old as grandpa, but a size 16 would be the smallest you could find on a neck, they would be less than an inch long, and you would need to use at 3 or 4 feathers to tie one fly.  Thought I’d died and gone to heaven when I got my first Metz #2 brown neck.  I still have it but there are no feathers left smaller than #10.                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

writes:    Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!

Hi Dolph, As others have said here, none of the growers grade on the same standards.  But within a particular brand, there is a big difference between a #1 and a #3. Historically (this is all subject to change), the #1 necks had higher feather counts, smaller sizes, less webbing, longer length feathers (more useable feather), more flexible stems,  rounder stems, and denser barb counts on the feather (more barbs per inch).  Usually the biggest difference between 1 and 2’s is the quantity of small sizes – more of the 20 through 24 sizes on the #1’s.  Often the #1’s don’t have useable size 10 or 12 feathers because the stems are too thick.  #3 necks often have more webbing than 1’s or 2’s but not always.  Most often the biggest difference between 2’s and 3’s is that the stems on the 3’s are stiffer, and sometimes oblong instead of round.  This makes them very tough to wind. The grading system is hardly perfect and you can often look through a batch of #2’s and find some that are as good as the #1’s and #’3s that are as good as 2’s.   Nothing compares to the Hoffman’s necks.  Their #2’s are comparable to just about anyone elses #1’s.  The saddles make great dry fly tying feathers but primarily have only 2 sizes on them.  The necks have a wide assortment of sizes.  Haven’t seen any saddles that will compare with the Hoffman’s for dry flys. For wet flies I still use hen neck feathers.  They are shorter and have more rounded tips.  These are always webby and fold easily for that swept back look on wets.  Used to be able to find them easily and they were cheap.  Haven’t seen many in recent years.  Get them if you can find them, they are a far better choice for wet flies than rooster necks. We are spoiled today with the necks available.  I remember when indian capes were all that you could get.  I would take a trip over to Tigard, OR once in a while just to paw through Kaufmann’s capes.  Lance and Randall would go over to India each year, select their own stock, and bring it back.  Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.                          Good Tying,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.   Mr. G.

Good post.   I’m curious about your left/right suggestion.  I never make any effort to use feathers from opposite sides of the cape when double wrapping. Could you elaborate more on why this is useful? Regards, Joe.  

Response:

        Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR BUZZARD:  You happen to ask a question that I must rise too.  It is an excellent question.  May I add a few thoughts to get this discussion going? The observation is keen that different hackle manufacturers are indeed grading their hackles differently.  In fact, I doubt the lot of them ever got together and came up with a standard that rates necks from different companies to the same matching-game.  Everyone should give this some thought. Frankly Buzzard, you’re going to have to become a good judge of hackle/necks yourself.  There are certain things you must always pay attention too and I’m not about to cover them all here and now.  But each tier has certain patterns that require different advantages from feathers.  They can be softness, hardness, webbing, lack of webbing, short feathers, long feathers, narrow and wide, the combinations are endless and all feathers have a use in fly tying in one fly or another. Remembe this.  Never throw them away. Besides colors (any color) A feather for DRY FLY FISHING is different in desired aspects than hen feathers for wet flies, nymphs, streamers, etc. BUT!  A hen feather doesn’t necessarily mean it is a feather of less worth. I (personally) won’t settle for a number two neck when for a few dollars more I will be happier with a number one (1)!  The difference between a two and a one can be miles apart even though the numbers are next to each other.  Numbers mean different values to different people.  In grading feathers (Cock necks) throw the number system out the window. Waste it.  It means nothing between manufacturers, BUT with a specific manufacturer such as Hoffman necks, it can be a very reliable numbering system because of one factor.  Hoffman Products (now raised in Grand Junction Colorado) are CONSISTANT and TIGHT in quality.  Whereas; Metz Necks vary with the wind and each chicken season.  Quality always suffers when production increases beyond supervisory abilities.  Hate to say it, but its true. A DRY FLY FEATHER must have certain factors for each tier.  Length, evenly wide hackles, very little webbing, barbel stiffness, sharp tips (not curled on the ends, etc.) flexiable (not brittle) stems, maturity, (in look and feel)  and when you inspect a neck, make sure the skin isn’t brittle so it will crack when bent a little.  (Use some gink on the skin back to keep it from drying out.  Excellent for this, incidently.  And please everyone, don’t slam me for offering a friendly fact) So, basically, today . . .  because of neck retail prices, the trend is splitting a Hoffman neck.  When you buy a split, you are getting only right handed or left  handed bends in feathers.  When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.  So, what I’m saying, is . . . if at all possible, always buy the complete neck if its financially comfortable or possible. I’ll let everyone take it from here. Mr. G.         Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Mr. G. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:          vcard fn:             Mr. G. n:              ;Mr. G. org:            Gehrke’s Fly Fishing Products title:          President note:           Do something, even if it’s right x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end:            vcard

Response:

Question:

I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas?

Response:

I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas?

I don’t follow what you’re saying…Rock Creek..the one I know…is only 20 miles east of Missoula..the madison is 200 miles southeast…so are you saying you want to fish Rock Creek and then head down to the Madison and then on to Seattle?  If you fish Rock Creek stay with Doug at the Rock Creek Mercantile…down on the Madison the West Fork cabins are an excellent place to stay..between the Madison and Seattle i think you’ll find that it’s difficult to get there from there…have fun trying though…you’ll drive by some pretty good fishing in Idaho while you figure out the easiest way to cross that state from east to west.

Response:

: I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am : looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in : between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the : madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas? : I don’t follow what you’re saying…Rock Creek..the one I know…is only : 20 miles east of Missoula..the madison is 200 miles southeast…so are : you saying you want to fish Rock Creek and then head down to the Madison : and then on to Seattle?   I think he is saying he wants to fish Rock Creek then head west.  Two options… stay on I-90 past Kellogg-Wallace, then head south down a bad road to the St. Joe.  Lots of tunnels blasted through rock and wonderful to drive, except when it washes out, which is often.  Look closely at a map and you will see the road I suggest.  There are some cabins down at the St. Joe Inn, but don’t expect a palace.   The easier (and I think you will find better fishing than Rock Creek) is to go through Missoula down to Lolo and head over into Idaho on Highway 12. This will run you along the Lochsa, which joins the Selway to form the Middle Clearwater which joins the South Fork, then the North Fork to form the Clearwater, which joins the Snake, which joins the Columbia which fills the entire Pacific Ocean.  As you might imagine, great fishing is found all along the road but it changes from a small stream to a fairly large stream (g) the farther you go. As for accomodations, I suggest you spend a day or two at Three Rivers Lodge, located at the bottom of the Lochsa at the confluence with the Selway.  This lodge is located about 90 miles from Missoula and has budget cabins or less modest cabins.  It is right on the Lochsa river, but you can also follow the Selway with a road that continues for 20 miles until it reaches the wilderness boundary.  There is also camping available all along the rivers.  The fishing tends to be better for cutthroat and ‘bows the higher you go on any of these rivers.  I should also mention there is the largest steelhead hatchery in the US on the Clearwater near Orofino and there is also a salmon hatchery near Kooskia on the same river.  (Salmon are extremely rare to find, though, but steelhead are a major trophy during the right time of the year.  The Clearwater is fairly large, and a drift boat is recommended.)  Both the Lochsa and the Selway are among the best whitewater rivers in the US.   To get back on the route to Seattle, you can take the long way along the Columbia river, or when you get to Lewiston take highway 195 to Pullman and then continue back up to I-90 in Spokane.  (Or take Highway 26 out of Colfax.)  Look at a map… but the fishing is great in N. Idaho. There you have it… better than a travel agent or and "adventure guide." — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

To get back on the route to Seattle, you can take the long way along the Columbia river, or when you get to Lewiston take highway 195 to Pullman and then continue back up to I-90 in Spokane.  (Or take Highway 26 out of Colfax.)  Look at a map… but the fishing is great in N. Idaho. There you have it… better than a travel agent or and "adventure guide." — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

There ya go! And you never mentioned fishing in my favorite M*nt*n* stream the B** *ol* !!

Response:

Question:

Thomas and Thomas makes an 11′ 6/7 wt with an in between length handle.

Response:

I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. SNIP About that $560 – I think the blank is only about $250 for a build it yourself cost around $325.

Thanks for the info Mark.  Sounds like you enjoy the rod, and would… ahem… one day will.  Where I would use it there are simultaneous runs of Half Pounders and Adults to 9 lbs, the half pounders outnumbering the big boys about 12 to 1 (in my fishing log anyway).  I’ve tried building rods.  They come out fine, but the cost is always way more than what you stated (Okay!  I confess, I bought the components in my fly shop, not from a catalogue!), and took so much time for me to get it the way I wanted that it just wasn’t worth it to me.  Plus on a super light spey rod I’d be concerned about Warranty.  I agree that Car Door warranties are going too far, but if in the middle of a big single spey (within the limits of performance), if the Mid Section implodes for no reason other than the cast, I want a replacement! Phil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon. Depends on the spey rod…  For some applications, like I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. I haven’t caught 8-10 pounders on it but a 12 and a 20 lber both took all it had to move them.  The long rod goves a big advantage in the end game as you can turn the fish back and forth and the rod will absorb any abrupt actions, but I would say that this rod overpowers them any more than another 8 weight. To me any eight weight overpowers trout under 20". This 7/8 wt.is just light enough for me to cast one handed with great

I my book anything over 4 wt. is too much for trout under 20"! Just my 0.02 cents, -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Dr. Corvallis, OR

Response:

I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.   Depends on the spey rod…  For some applications, like half-pounders though that 7/8 would be a ton of fun!  Would love one for summer and fall steelhead, and fall browns, but at $560 bucks it ain’t gonna’ happen…

I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. I haven’t caught 8-10 pounders on it but a 12 and a 20 lber both took all it had to move them.  The long rod goves a big advantage in the end game as you can turn the fish back and forth and the rod will absorb any abrupt actions, but I would say that this rod overpowers them any more than another 8 weight. To me any eight weight overpowers trout under 20". This 7/8 wt.is just light enough for me to cast one handed with great effort.   I would be curious to find a six weight, not necessarily with the big two handed handle but longer than 10′ and tapered for spey casting. Something you could use two or one handed but mostly for spey casting. The rhythm and grace and line control and the easier two hand motion would be desireable in a lighter rod too. Once you know spey casts you’ll want better spey abilities in a trout rod, but I don’t think this is compatible with delicate casting action. That would really be a hoot for the juvenile delinquent half pounders. I’ll try some experiments with just the upper three sections and see how it works. If any rod builders want to build one I’d test it very well for you. About that $560 – I think the blank is only about $250 for a build it yourself cost around $325.   Mark VInsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  Yet I know it is best to play and release quickly….so it seem the question is between having a little fun by having to really play the fish, or getting them in in a hurry and thereby helping the fish.  I guess I don’t really see an answer to this "problem."  Any help? Fred Rickson

A good spey rod is *really* soft, and they used to say you should have time to light up and smoke a pipe while you were making the cast. In these terms, most modern sticks that call themselves spey rods are too stiff and these do cut down playing times on fish weighing less than ten pounds. I guess it is like the difference between landing a salmon on a Sage RPL and on a 4 weight bamboo – you’ll get the fish in eventually with the bamboo, but you’ll bank it in five minutes with the Sage. I have about thirty rods, because I have no sense of self-control, and I use them all! I tend to use spey rods on rivers where I can’t make a long backcast because of banks or trees or whatever, or on big rivers where I would have to double-haul into the future. I am not the world’s best distance caster with a shooting head, although I am working on it. I also find that the longer rod gives greater line control, letting me mend a double taper almost down to the fly at thirty yards. I guess it boils down to what your aims are in fishing. I have caught (and released) two big steelhead, one on the Bulckley (hope I spelled that OK) and the other on the Kispiox. The Kispiox fish I hooked on a nine foot Sage, and took me twenty five minutes. The Bulckely fish I hooked, after a double spey in a tight corner, on a fifteen foot rod, and I banked it in fifteen minutes. Both the fish were pretty fit afterwards, although I wasn’t too keen to catch another one too soon after the Kispiox fish! I got talking to one of the guides, and we used a spring balance to check the maximum pull the rods could exert on a fish. The fifteen foot rod actually pulled half a pound less than the Sage with the rods vertical, near as we could judge. So why did the long rod bank a fish faster? Probably because you have more line out of the water and can pull the fish’s head *up* more of the time – I don’t know. Of course, this doesn’t apply to salt water, where using a long rod on a big fish would be pretty stupid! So, if it is any help, I’d use a long rod where you can’t use a short one, or where it would help to be able to mend the line on a larger river, or when you just feel it would be a pleasant thing to do. The other thing you have to watch in some places is the politics! There is something about spey rods which gives some fishermen a problem, why I have no idea. I once got pursued by a guy for three days who had his head up his ass about catching fish with a rod longer than nine feet. In the end I pulled out my midge rod and fished that for the remainder of the week – all the while wingeing about grown men like him using rods twice as long as mine to catch salmon (man, you should have seen me generating line speed with that one.) Rods are just rods, they aren’t worth losing sleep over! Andrew (-:

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

OK, we know that. If you have more experience than that tell us all about it. (if you like even by email). Just got my first Spey rod and am eager to hear more. Thomas — Thomas Urbig

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes!

I guess you mean two-handed rods when saying Spey rod. (Spey rod are two handed rods specially designed for Spey casts) Two-handed rods are certainly superior to single handed rods in many situations. But I wouldn’t count 1-handed out… It’s a matter of how large the river is, how heavy flies you are casting, if regular overhead casts are possible or not etc… I fish with both, depending on the situation and I’m happy with that.  - Tord

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes!

I sometimes fish 6 ft wide, fast running freestone streams, targeting wild trout of about 8 inches.  I fish with a 7.6 2#.  I will admit that I have never tried it, but I think that a spey rod may just not be the optimal rod for this situation. Bruce….

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! I sometimes fish 6 ft wide, fast running freestone streams, targeting wild trout of about 8 inches.  I fish with a 7.6 2#.  I will admit that I have never tried it, but I think that a spey rod may just not be the optimal rod for this situation. Bruce….

you’re little trout would be transformed into might flying fish when you set up… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

I have to say that over the years I have discovered that my fifteen foot double-hander, while great fun for salmon, is not quite the optimal weapon for dry fly fishing on our local beck. Andrew

Response:

I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  Yet I know it is best to play and release quickly….so it seem the question is between having a little fun by having to really play the fish, or getting them in in a hurry and thereby helping the fish.  I guess I don’t really see an answer to this "problem."  Any help? Fred Rickson

Response:

I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  

Depends on the spey rod.  I have the Sage 14 foot four piece for 9/10. It only weighs seven ounces, and one look at the grip tells you it ain’t the telephone pole you might expect it to be.  Very light, very sensitive.  I can cast it one handed up to 45 feet (I’m 6′ 4", 250), and can feel when I pick up a small leaf on my fly on the swing.  Picked up a seven pound (29" by 14.5") steelhead last wednesday and it was great fun.   Sage now makes a 15 foot four piece 8/9 (that sounds like it would be a hoot!) to go along with their 13.5 foot 7/8 model (also softer than you’d think).  Personally, I wouldn’t trade my 9140-4 for the 7/8 model, because my ability to throw a line with interchangeable heads (up to a type six 10 wt!  No not Rio),  is why I catch winter steelhead while others practice casting.  For some applications, like half-pounders though that 7/8 would be a ton of fun!  Would love one for summer and fall steelhead, and fall browns, but at $560 bucks it ain’t gonna’ happen while I still own my 8 year old 10 foot seven one hander. Haven’t seen or tried the new 15 foot 8/9 yet.  The moral of the story is No two companies spey rods are alike, and you have to find one that is designed for the size and type of fish you want to catch.  I can’t recommend the Sage 4 piece rods highly enough.  Wouldn’t touch the three piecers if you paid me. Phil

Response: