Question:

<snip Nice report, Roger. I watched a UK fishing show about a guy who rented and floated a large river in Sweden on a raft. He fished for whitefish and trout. Ever heard of this? — Gary M

Response:

Nice report, Roger. Keep catching those big, fat grayling, and keep the reports coming. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

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Hi! Had planned to stop working 2 pm. As usual something came up and I wasn’t on my way until 4 pm. Driving the 85 km to my intended fishing spot downstream the Village of Myrheden, I passed a local thunderstorm headed for the coast. However, on arrival at the river the weather was sunny and approx 23 degrees Celsius. River Byske is one of Swedens most famous salmon rivers, but also hold grayling and trout. Earlier in the history of the river it was used to float timber to the coast. As a consequence there were long arms of stone built to concentrate the flow of water to a smaller area and as such deepening the river. Listening to my grandfather talk about the fishing in these days it is obvious that fish benefitted from the timber floating. A huge amount of timber in the first half of the summer meant an enormous food supply for the fish as a variety of insects fell into the water with the timber. Grayling up to lb 4 were caught every summer and brown trout up to lb 10. Today the care takers of this fishing area has started to restore the river to its "natural" state by digging these stone arms back into the river using excavators. Fish biologists have pointed out that this work must be done so that alternating deeper and shallower parts of the river are created (obvious) but the care takers look at money first and as a consequence the cheapest contractor gets the job. What happens? Well, this contractor often knows nothing about restoring the river bed and the result is just as often dissapointing. The tragic part of all this is that the restorations are made with the salmon’s best interest in mind. So in failing improvements for salmon, which after all are migratory fish, the care takers have failed catastrophically with the stationary fish which is only a remnant of what it once was. Enough of this crap, back to the report. Since this was the first trip, this year, to this area, I went straight for the hot spots that have emerged during 26 years of fly fishing in this river. There’s a square meter of the river that every year gets my first attention and this year was no different. Kind of silly isn’t it? to go to the exact same spot year after year, especially since the river is something like 150 km long. But to me it’s like visiting an old friend and being there makes me content if nothing else. The first thing I noticed was that the river was low, more so than usual this time of year. The second was that, probably due to a surprisingly early summer with above average temperatures for over three weeks in a row, the insect life was in full activity. There were two different mayflies swarming and also a number of caddis flies with a medium sized grey variant in majority. One of the mayfly species (don’t know its latin name) was a bright yellow and fairly large mayfly, these mayflies, with the grace of a butterfly, are beautiful to watch. To reach the spot I had to do some wading and whilst doing so I saw a rise just where I had expected it to be. It looked like a fairly large grayling. The spot is located on the neck of a stream with an underwater rock just upstream. By this time my expectations were high and my first cast a bit short in the eager to reach the fish. The second cast I hooked a 15.5 inch grayling weighing slightly below lb1.5 . I usually catch one fish for eating, but this one was too big so I released it. All in all I caught 18 grayling and kept two for breakfast, one for me and one for my 80 year old grandfather who still fly fish but due to a bad knee mostly in lakes. I fished until 4 am with a short break for cooking coffee at midnight. As always this time of the year the presence of the sun was visible as a redish light in the horizon even at 1 am. End of story. P.S. I just got off the phone as a friend of mine called to tell me about a visit to a small river "Mal

Question:

Wow, I just had a great time fishing in front of the school on the Lielupe River! Thanks to you guys here on ROFF (whatever that is..). I was headed home after work, glanced over at the usually rather full fishing spot, and not one local was there, probably because of the overcast skies and promise of rain. The space with the clear zone for a backcast was wide open, and as I stood there thinking about it, 2 big old rises appeared <right there.  Easy decision: tossed the briefcase in the car, peeled off the shoes and socks, stepped into my mudboots, and assembled the 4-weight. Strolled over to the bank and watched for a minute. The skeeters were there, but so were these tiny little black flying things and the perch were rising for them all over. Not the big thrashing rises from the other day, but some respectable rises nontheless. And lots of them. I tied on a 6x tippet, gave myself about 1 meter of lead, and looked at my flycase. I recently bought a nice old Soviet cigarette case at a junk shop and lined it with foam as a nymph case for my 4-wt, and saw a fly that looked interesting. Its a type of caterpillar, I think, with a palmered hackle around a yellow-orange body on a #12(?) hook. Looks like a wolly bugger without a tail. I was thinking about what Mike said about colors, and how Perch nip at the tails and to use a wolly with a short tail, so I tied this on. Also, the water is getting shallow, and this fly can float if you lay it out gently, so I figured it would work for presentation practice, too. First cast was short and easy, as someone suggested here. Then I gradually stretched out my false casts farther and farther, thinking ‘back and UP’, and as someone else suggested, watching over my shoulder for the line to straighten. It was a LONG wait…the line would do a sort of ‘double tug’ at the end of my backcast: once when the tailing loop of the backcast would hit the far end, then again when the entire line was laid out up there. Dunno how the line can defy gravity for so long waiting to stretch out taut, but it does. Then, I swept it forward firmly and sharply, pointing it like a sword (as someone else suggested), and was amazed at how my casts were straight, long, and perfectly presented. First cast, fish on! Of course, it was some little 6-inch thing, but hey!, it was just what I wanted. I brought it in with the line, not bothering to spool up the reel, and let it go with my heartfelt thanks. Then I cast out again, watching the line behind me and waiting forever for the backcast to load up. The forward cast and watching the fly stay ‘above the line’ as Jarmo suggested made total sense, and it felt just right. Second cast, fish on! Too cool! This guy was a bit bigger (6.1 inches, probably), but I got that feeling that it was working just like it was supposed to! All those tiny details were making sense, and it was great. Then the skies opened up and it started to rain. I remembered the thread about how fish seem to bite better at one time or another, and figured the Perch seemed to like to hit just before the skies open up. A few minutes later, when the rain stopped and the sun broke through, there were no rises. As the clouds covered up again, the rises came more and more regularly until just before it rained again. At some point, I decided to experiment with flies as the caterpillar was getting soaked and starting to snag on the muck at the bottom. I took it off and tied on a very tiny yellow thing I have; I think its a #18 yellow Comparadun. Anyway, I was laying it out there exactly where the big rises were and letting it lie there, but no takes. Finally, I decided to head home and started retrieving it slowly. Wham! it got hit and spit out. Wham! it got hit again. Ahhh, so THATS the secret! So I spent the next half hour casting and gently retrieving it, hauling in fish with almost every cast. Great. Of course, these were no great monsters, and I realize that perch are pathetically easy to catch, but at least now I have a baseline to experiment with, and grow from. I know there are some BIG perch in this stretch of water, so I’m ready to start learning how to aim for them. All in all, it was a great way to spend an hour after work, and I was thinking of all the tidbits of advice from folks here about everything, from how to cast, to the effect of cloud cover, to what color and type of fly to use, to knots, to everything. Thanks, guys!! riverman (happy boy)

Response:

Wow, I just had a great time fishing in front of the school on the Lielupe River! Thanks to you guys here on ROFF (whatever that is..).

Congratulations!    Just one point though, catching small perch may seem "pathetically easy" sometimes. The larger ones can be quite a challenge. Even a medium sized perch will give you a good run for your money on a #4 wt. If you only seem to be catching small ones, try fishing a streamer anyway, occasionally, a large perch will be hanging around waiting for one of his smaller brethren to make a mistake. TL MC

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Question:

"Walt Winter" wrote… Are you planning on stopping by Penns?

Probably; I figure my casting "technique" will give the guys something to laugh at. Timothy Juvenal For years my fly-casting technique was compared … to an old lady fighting off a bee with a broom handle.     -Patrick F. McManus

Response:

ok, ya got me stumped. which book has all the cool flyfishing quotes in it? –walt…. whose own casting style will have them guffawing uncontrollably…. "Walt Winter" wrote… Are you planning on stopping by Penns? Probably; I figure my casting "technique" will give the guys something to laugh at. Timothy Juvenal For years my fly-casting technique was compared … to an old lady fighting off a bee with a broom handle.     -Patrick F. McManus

– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

Response:

"Walt Winter" wrote… ok, ya got me stumped. which book has all the cool flyfishing quotes

in it? Gotta bunch of ‘em from various female acquaintances.  "Quotable Fisherman" by Nick Lyons, "Gone Fishin’" by Marc Anello, "Gone Fishing!" by Anna Nicholas, etc.  Not sure why I’m always getting these.  But then, I’m not sure of anything regarding females. Timothy Juvenal I know the joy of fishes In the river Through my own joy As I go walking Along the river     -Chuang Tzu

Response:

thankee tim…. -ww – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Walt Winter" wrote… ok, ya got me stumped. which book has all the cool flyfishing quotes in it? Gotta bunch of ‘em from various female acquaintances.  "Quotable Fisherman" by Nick Lyons, "Gone Fishin’" by Marc Anello, "Gone Fishing!" by Anna Nicholas, etc.  Not sure why I’m always getting these.  But then, I’m not sure of anything regarding females. Timothy Juvenal I know the joy of fishes In the river Through my own joy As I go walking Along the river     -Chuang Tzu

– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

Response:

"Walt Winter" wrote… Are you planning on stopping by Penns? Probably; I figure my casting "technique" will give the guys something to laugh at. Timothy Juvenal For years my fly-casting technique was compared … to an old lady fighting off a bee with a broom handle.     -Patrick F. McManus

Some act and talk as though casting were the entire art of Fly-fishing, and grade an angler solely by the distance he can cover with his flies. This is a great mistake and pernicious in it’s influence. Casting is but a method of placing a fly before the trout without alarming it, and within its reach. It is merely placing food before a guest. The selection of such food as will suit, and so serving it as to please a fastidious and fickle taste, still remain indispensably necessary to induce its acceptance.    - Henry P. Wells, "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle", 1885 — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

…    - Henry P. Wells, "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle", 1885

While there’s much truth in the quote posted, how fitting that it was posted by an inept, ham-handed, yuppie-come-lately Sandra Bernhardt look-alike who ain’t ever learned to cast a lick. — Ken Fortenberry- no leeches, but thanks anyway

Response:

Some act and talk as though casting were the entire art of Fly-fishing, and grade an angler solely by the distance he can cover with his flies. This is a great mistake and pernicious in it’s influence. Casting is but a method of placing a fly before the trout without alarming it, and within its reach. It is merely placing food before a guest. The selection of such food as will suit, and so serving it as to please a fastidious and fickle taste, still remain indispensably necessary to induce its acceptance.   – Henry P. Wells, "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle", 1885 visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

HEAR! HEAR! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

"rw" wrote… Some act and talk as though casting were the entire art of Fly-fishing, and grade an angler solely by the distance he can cover with his flies. This is a great mistake and pernicious in it’s influence.    - Henry P. Wells, "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle", 1885

I think I’m going to need to memorize this quote. 8^) My buddy is really a fine fly-caster: I’ll show him some old rod, and he’ll take it out to parking lot, strip line off the reel and coil it into his hand, and with two strokes of the rod have 50 or 60 feet out, just as pretty as you please.  For the life of me I can’t figure out how he does it.  I’d have to have Joan Wulff blindfold me and call me "Grasshopper" before I’d even get close. Timothy Juvenal And when white moths were on the wing, And moth-like stars were flickering out, I dropped the berry in a stream And caught a little silver trout.     -William Butler Yeats

Response:

"rw" quotes some guy from long ago: "Casting is but a method of placing a fly before the trout without alarming it, and within its reach. It is merely placing food before a guest."

Casting is a lot more to me than simply placing food before a fish. The beauty of a tight, smooth, effortless cast is a pleasure unto itself. It’s no secret that I aspire to be a better caster–but little of that aspiration is based on a desire to catch more fish. –Steve

Response:

…    - Henry P. Wells, "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle", 1885 While there’s much truth in the quote posted, how fitting that it was posted by an inept, ham-handed, yuppie-come-lately Sandra Bernhardt look-alike who ain’t ever learned to cast a lick.

You’ve seen me catch two fish, Ken. In two different states. You even got a photo of one, but I never saw it. I suspect you forgot to take the lens cap off. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

While there’s much truth in the quote posted, how fitting that it was posted by an inept, ham-handed, yuppie-come-lately Sandra Bernhardt look-alike who ain’t ever learned to cast a lick. Ken Fortenberry- no leeches, but thanks anyway

Naw, he looks more like Merril Streep when he’s in drag! Wayne (wondering if the NC cabin at the Clave has room for a chiffon gown with off-the-shoulder sleeves) to fish is human….to release Divine!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Wayne (wondering if the NC cabin at the Clave has room for a chiffon gown with off-the-shoulder sleeves)

I propose that we temporarily suspend the usenet injunction against posting binaries……I GOTTA see this! Wolfgang um…….what would that be, about a 26 slim?      

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but little of that aspiration is based on a desire to catch more fish.

I thought that was a bonus to the adventure. Drew

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Wayne (wondering if the NC cabin at the Clave has room for a chiffon gown with off-the-shoulder sleeves)

……tell Tom that I will stop by for the banner,well, sometime….                    suffering scary visual,                        your Clavemeister

Response:

Walt, I’ve seen you cast – it’s not funny….(snicker) john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, ya got me stumped. which book has all the cool flyfishing quotes in it? –walt…. whose own casting style will have them guffawing uncontrollably…. "Walt Winter" wrote… Are you planning on stopping by Penns? Probably; I figure my casting "technique" will give the guys something to laugh at. Timothy Juvenal For years my fly-casting technique was compared … to an old lady fighting off a bee with a broom handle.     -Patrick F. McManus — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

Response:

Walt, I’ve seen you cast – it’s not funny….(snicker)

I’ve seen him catch fish.  That wasn’t funny either.     Wolfgang funny how some people have the uncanny ability to steer a guy to every dead hole in a river

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Walt, I’ve seen you cast – it’s not funny….(snicker) I’ve seen him catch fish.  That wasn’t funny either.     Wolfgang funny how some people have the uncanny ability to steer a guy to every dead hole in a river

or the ones full of suckers <BSEG BTW, I have some of the photos back – want a few scans? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Walt, I’ve seen you cast – it’s not funny….(snicker) I’ve seen him catch fish.  That wasn’t funny either.     Wolfgang funny how some people have the uncanny ability to steer a guy to every dead hole in a river or the ones full of suckers <BSEG

Ah yes.  Well, there’s the suckers hiding under the banks, and there’s them what stands on ‘em.    :) BTW, I have some of the photos back – want a few scans?

Hell yes, send all of them! Wolfgang

Response:

Some act and talk as though casting were the entire art of Fly-fishing, and grade an angler solely by the distance he can cover with his flies. This is a great mistake and pernicious in it’s influence.

That’s right.  How many different types of casts you know is important too.

Response:

And when white moths were on the wing, And moth-like stars were flickering out, I dropped the berry in a stream And caught a little silver trout.

Yeah, right, you dropped a Power Bait, more like it….

Response:

wanna see a picture of Wolf naked? john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Walt, I’ve seen you cast – it’s not funny….(snicker) I’ve seen him catch fish.  That wasn’t funny either.     Wolfgang funny how some people have the uncanny ability to steer a guy to every dead hole in a river or the ones full of suckers <BSEG BTW, I have some of the photos back – want a few scans? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

wanna see a picture of Wolf naked? john

John, its strange you would offer a photo like that here, stranger still, you have a photo like that! To head off the questions which are sure to follow your post, is it electronically ENHANCED??!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

"Jeff Connelly" wrote … Yeah, right, you dropped a Power Bait, more like it….

Oh, it’s O.K.; I stuck a feather in it first.  8^) Timothy Juvenal Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.     -Henry David Thoreau

Response:

Tim, Are you planning on stopping by Penns? –Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Light Cahills were hatching on the Neshaminy Creek in Southeastern PA on Monday evening.  It was a decent hatch, and fish were rising actively to it.  The water temperature was 65 degrees, air temp was 55 on the ride home.  The air and water temps have been all over the place this year; it was hot, with air temps in the 90’s and water temps around 75 degrees last week.  So the timing of hatches may be a little off this year. Caught numerous rock bass, including some of the bigger ones I’ve seen lately, and a couple of redbreast sunfish using a sulphur with a 5x tippet and #6 line on an old 9′ bamboo rod.  Saw a monster leap completely out of the water, between the branches of a blow-down over an undercut bank.  Fished that fly over under and around that blowdown until the owls said it was time to go; never saw another sign of that fish.  Not positive what it was, but it’s belly was more of a goldish color, not silver like a smallmouth, so I’m thinking a stocked brown. There were still some tan caddis about, and also saw a small dark brown mayfly, but wasn’t able to identify it. At any rate, folks heading to Penn’s creek next week might want to bring some light colored sulphur & cahill imitations in #12 and #14. Timothy Juvenal Yet fish there be, that neither hook nor line Nor snare, nor net, nor engine can make thine.     -John Bunyan

– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

Response:

Light Cahills were hatching on the Neshaminy Creek in Southeastern PA on Monday evening.  It was a decent hatch, and fish were rising actively to it.  The water temperature was 65 degrees, air temp was 55 on the ride home.  The air and water temps have been all over the place this year; it was hot, with air temps in the 90’s and water temps around 75 degrees last week.  So the timing of hatches may be a little off this year. Caught numerous rock bass, including some of the bigger ones I’ve seen lately, and a couple of redbreast sunfish using a sulphur with a 5x tippet and #6 line on an old 9′ bamboo rod.  Saw a monster leap completely out of the water, between the branches of a blow-down over an undercut bank.  Fished that fly over under and around that blowdown until the owls said it was time to go; never saw another sign of that fish.  Not positive what it was, but it’s belly was more of a goldish color, not silver like a smallmouth, so I’m thinking a stocked brown. There were still some tan caddis about, and also saw a small dark brown mayfly, but wasn’t able to identify it. At any rate, folks heading to Penn’s creek next week might want to bring some light colored sulphur & cahill imitations in #12 and #14. Timothy Juvenal Yet fish there be, that neither hook nor line Nor snare, nor net, nor engine can make thine.     -John Bunyan

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him. Dave L. An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife. Personally, in situations such as those, I distance myself from the individual in question, sashay up to the bar, delicately look at my watch while tsk tsking…….and say to the first person that asks, "Well, you can buy me a drink, but only one!"….john

ROFL.  The good counselor for the great North State will have something to say, I am sure.  Especially since it happened in his great NS.  (still laughing) Dave      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  

I don’t know that I’d go so far. It is telling the robber about to walk in the door who he should shoot first, though. Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife.

It was 21 feet, when Sgt. Tueller first demonstrated it. According to my arrest-control instructors, it might have become even more since then. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

Response:

Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him. Dave L.

An obviously poorly trained individual.  A visible piece is no protection and is akin to the braggart boasting of things he has never done with no witnesses to back it up.  Additionally, at ranges up to fifteen feet, a holstered weapon is no defense against an already drawn knife. Personally, in situations such as those, I distance myself from the individual in question, sashay up to the bar, delicately look at my watch while tsk tsking…….and say to the first person that asks, "Well, you can buy me a drink, but only one!"….john

Response:

It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington. Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

______-  They had tube steaks? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington.

You are baaaad.  But typical USMC – never thinking about normal heterosexual sex.  Actually, IJ’s restaurant was pretty good.  Good martinis and fairly good food.  Only trouble, one of the two instructors with me was carrying a piece and you could see it.  He didn’t like the restaurant or its clientele.  d:0(  Although he was licensed, it did not make us very comfortable being with him.   Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

[entreaties snipped] This year we will insure that Indian Joe does not win all of them like he has in the past. This I got to see. Nobody has yet demonstrated an immunity to IJ’s croc’ tears ;^) The caving of the RaffleMeister is inevitable. /daytripper (It’s not "if" – it’s "when" ;^)

No, I have found new resolve.  IJ will be lucky if he wins *any* flies. It’s his turn for an obscene hat or tie.  It is pay-off time for when IJ sent my buddies and me to the gay restaurant in Wilmington.  He can cry all he wants; I will not give in this year.  New resolve.  Yes sir. Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Question:

Hi All, I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene

My Dad always told me that wading in cold water in tennis shoes makes ya tough, and waders were for wimpy old men.  My guess is the real reason is what Bill said, they’re expensive, you would have to buy a new pair every year, and if a kid fell down wearing them, he could drown. Levi

Response:

You can buy wadders for kids now at Cabella’s, Orvis or Madison River Flyshop/Outfitters. We got a pair made by BARE at MRF only because local shops didn’t carry them and the national catalog houses were out of stock at that time.Expect to pay like 75-$125. We got ours from Mike at MRFC e-mail Bill is so right about out growing wadders and boots. We couldn’t locate a men’s pair of boots to fit so we went to the smaller ladies sizes instead. (anybody need a good pair of ladies size 5 Hogman’s?) Mike suggested NOT buying boots for kids. Just get cheap over size tennis/sports shoes. We also let the child play in water when fishing slows down. Just be careful about water quality and your fellow fisherman who won’t appreciate that. I usually don’t fish when my son is in the water. Kids need supervision on water even if they don’t actually need help casting. -kyle- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Response:

rb 9 year old boys grow so fast it may be best to buy inexpensive rubber hip boots or flyweight hip waders like those made by Cabelas (he could wear them with an old pair of sneakers).  Not extrememly durable but they will probably still be in good shape when he grows out of them. They come in a wide range of sizes. dward

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Hi All, I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own.

Cabela’s has some in their catalog. — Charlie…

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Cabela’s has some in their catalog. — Charlie…

Thanks,  I overlooked the easy answer.   Since I’ll be lucky if he fits in them for a whole year at the rate he’s growing, I wouldn’t want to go premium name brand stuff anyway. Thanks, Joe

Response:

Orvis and LL Bean both sell kid sized waders, but they’re expensive. I got my son some Cabela’s lightweight stocking foot waders in size S when he was 10 (he’s a big kid).  They were too long for him, but otherwise fine. About half the price of the above. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Response:

Sounds like a fair trade,  I’ll need an XL [Red Ball ST's or better]…do the kids need to be housebroken ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Question:

This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.  

The areas I fish are usually less than 40ft across, so I rarely have out more than 30ft of line out.  When trying to reach a section just off the opposite bank and up/downstream a bit I’ll have maybe 50ft out.  I find that presentation is FAR more important than distance, so I use lightweight slow action rods most of the time. It’s fine by me if everyone wants the extra-fast actions, it makes those the high-end/high-priced models and I can get a slow/moderate action rod for cheaper.  To each his own. Later,      - Ken — "To listen to some devout people, one would imagine that God never laughs."         – Ghose Aurobindo

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<<G  Been there.  Done that.  Possible exception being the Chatooga. Dave

True, but even there most of my casts are pretty short (sometimes just due to other fishermen<g). The only times I’ve really _had_ to cast a long ways have been in saltwater. Like you said, presentation (and line control) are more important to the way I normally fish than distance. — Charlie…

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I got started in fly fishing in a tournament casting club.  I really enjoyed the competition and it greatly enhanced my fishing skills. The advantage of distance casting, I find really depends on the type of fishing your involved in.  As you say, with trout I probably catch most my fish within 50 feet.  However, in the Salt for bonito the longer the cast the longer the retrieve and more water covered.  Sometimes lake fishing I see fish rising at quite a distance and the long cast allows me to catch the fish. I love to fish for Bluegill,  those little buggers are always located way back behind the reeds and I’m fishing from shore.  The long cast with my 4 wt is critical for this type of fishing. The long cast is not always necessary, but it sure is a handy tool.  So I’ll give you my answer to those trying to find a better casting rod.  The better casting rod is found in your closet, the trick is to force it to practice, practice, and then practice it some more.  This method for creating a better casting rod is so good that the rod will even teach the other rods in your closet how to cast better!! Good Luck, Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt, but I fail to see why *distance* is the primary concern when casting.  Double haulting a 3 or 4 weight?  Presentation is more important than distance (imho) when fishing with light tackle to trout and salmon, yet here stands a guy double hauling a 3 weight and doing his utmost to get to the end of the casting pool, instead of seeing how lightly he can place the casting yarn on the water, how easily he can turn over the leader. This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.   When nymphing, my casts are typically only 20 feet, the less line on the water the better, but I may cast farther simply to let the fly sink to the correct zone. I would appreciate your comments.  Why the macho distance crap with light tackle? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Now saltwater, there’s a place you need to cast distance.  Because the thing is, even if you don’t need to throw your whole line, you ned the technique that enables you to.  Why?  Wind.  In the salt, you’re quite often casting into very stiff breezes, where throwing forty or fifty feet of line requires the same mechanics that throwing 80 – 100 feet does.

Response:

At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt,

There is a difference between "fishing" and "casting".   Are you sure those guys were not just "feeling" the new rod out? A lot of the competition casters would push a new rod to find its limits and get a "feel" for the rod. Whenever I go to a casting pond, I’d work on certain aspects of casting stroke, be it timeing or power snap etc. I’d double haul a 3 wt if I feel I need to work on the timing aspects of the haul etc.. A 3 wt will not tire me out as much as a 5wt or 8 wt, and I get more out of a practice session when I am not tired and fighting the rod all the time. In other words, I practice "casting", not "fishing" at the casting pond. I fish Deschutes all the time, and I rarely think about loop control, timing or any other aspects of casting when I am on the river; it’s all automatic. I also rarely use more than  20 feet of line when I am fishing. In other words, I just fish whenever I am on the river.

Response:

Mr. G. —

Question:

ugliest bearing remnant or piston rod (or maybe the alarm buzzer?) on the little display shelf that I call "The Chamber of Horrors."  It includes

At my house I call it the  "Hall of Shame" Iam gonna have it rebuildt. My first adventure will be  the trip back up river. I hope.. What kind of warrenty do you get on a rebuild? d mac

Response:

Yes, a humorous (to us!) post about a sad time, and we’ve all had them, but there is usually a valuable lesson-learned in any marine mishap, even on a small boat, and I found a good one buried in this one:  insure that critial alarms are audible or install remotes that will be.  Not to mention the other L RE-learned, that could’ve been more tragic in a river current: ground tackle is safety equipment!  Always know the water depths you’ll be traversing in advance (er, read a chart), and have sufficient scope (5 – 7 x depth) aboard & at the ready. Motor bearings, etc. are likely fried.  I’d fix it anyway, and put the ugliest bearing remnant or piston rod (or maybe the alarm buzzer?) on the little display shelf that I call "The Chamber of Horrors."  It includes such conversational items as a badly broken motorcycle helmet that came off my own head, a bolt fragment from inside a low suction valve bonnet that kept a chemical tanker in drydock for 3 extra days at a charter loss of millions, a stellite steam turbine blade that not only made it through the casing but pierced a forced-draft blower housing several stories higher, a peephole fitting that got buried in my fireman’s forehead (didn’t purge the furnace B4 lighting off after 38 years in the fireroom), the ring from my first marriage, and the empty envelope from the personal Christmas card Larry River$ painted for me that I accidently threw into the stove.

Response:

Fix the engine, and do the trip again to proof your wife wrong.  Just joking, but I will do the trip over myself.

Ha good point, I will finish it someday. d mac

Response:

I have no idea whats wrong but enjoyed reading your story….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few nights and sat morning had planned for me wife 2 kids to go 50 miles to Toms creek on Tenn river to meet friends and there kids and stay  there 2 days and come back SUN…. Wife told me dont do it lets drive we know we will get there ..yang, yang, yang ect ect…… Nope Iam ready for a TRIP family time.. BOAT is a 86 28′Harris Pontoon  w/86 115 Johnson, OIL INJECTED  2nd owner, I have had 3 years nver gone anywere serviced once a year only used it once this year as in go for day. BOAT is slip kept.. 8AM SAt we take off have extra battery, cable, chart maps my 2 12 gallon tanks 20 more gallons of gas, oil reservier is FULL.. food, suit cases lots of cold beer for when I get there with my pardner , wives are good friends me and RON will kick back…. Off we go. Iam thinking hell Iam MANLY kinda guy looking for ADVENTURE!! Iam figurein  about a 3 hr trip running from 20 to 25mph.. ran my first tank out abouit a hour, was following bouys running red up river,things going good had a neat chart maps by TVA showe my marking ect.. I ran out of 1st tank of gas after about a hour changed to full tank 10 min later let son drive, he does fine 10 min later there is a CLANKing knocking nose, could tell motor was missing I started driving Talk about your a STUBBORN asshole  I TOLD YOU SO look from my wife….. I didn’t hear beeping nose(oiler beeps when not working)… no smoke , steam , smell… I cut off motor took off cover. I saw a cracked small hose that outlet that pumps water from engine to side of motor that lets you know water pump is working. I cut off bad hose pout back, this had nothing to do with problem. Engin was hot to touch.. well here I was with family floating Tenn River nobody around. what should I do? Just passed a god I know 3 wide 10 deep barge heading my way a few miles ago water dept is 40 feet in channel. My anchor ropw is 25..  I started motor back up, it was clanging more I could go forward just went slow. Fisherman came by I flagged him down he stopped, He asked me about oil told him it was 1/2 full. I cranked again he said its fixing to LOCK UP.. i shut if off.. let it cool cranked it again it just bumped didnt turn over.. HMmmm not good… we talked then I asked him the big one how far is closest mechinac.."About 5 miles that way,, I had a phone called info got marina "NOPE no one here  or gonna be here today but me" talk about being in  JAM… I told fisherman ID sure pay ya if you can tow me in… he had a RANGER 150  he said, "Ive been in your shoes before, you gotta rope?"  There is a GOD!! these fellow could have said see ya dont wanna be ya..  These  2 guys towed us a few miles told us  they had to stop saw fish in finder. They started fishing got into a mess of stripes, they cought 10 stripes it was great, wife and kids got a kick out of that… called folks we were on they were hour away they were on their way. When we got to dock and in slip I had $50 in my  hand and asked how much and the guy said "nothing the man didnt charge me anything and you just pass it on" I said please take this let me buy your lunch, take these 20 gallons of gas its not gonna do me any good. NOPE he didnt want nothing.. Well friends came picked us up (he to told me it was dumb to make the trip, so I HAD to listen to his remarks and rightfully so, I had screwed up his day driveing. We left boat over night, called had a friend pick up my trailor meet me there on SUN we picked it up now its in back yard.. END of story I had OIL in reseror tank, my water pump impeller replaced last year with cover off I can turn fly wheel about 4 turns and will turn  when starting but will come to stop and then will only bump unless your turn with had but will again come to stop and go no futher… Gonna have checked out, what ya think it is. Do I fix this motor or is it to OLD (86 Johnson 115) what could it be. d mac Tennessee

Response:

Sorry to hear your story.  Really sad, but at least you are ok. Fix the engine, and do the trip again to proof your wife wrong.  Just joking, but I will do the trip over myself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few

Response:

Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few nights and sat morning had planned for me wife 2 kids to go 50 miles to Toms creek on Tenn river to meet friends and there kids and stay  there 2 days and come back SUN…. Wife told me dont do it lets drive we know we will get there ..yang, yang, yang ect ect…… Nope Iam ready for a TRIP family time.. BOAT is a 86 28′Harris Pontoon  w/86 115 Johnson, OIL INJECTED  2nd owner, I have had 3 years nver gone anywere serviced once a year only used it once this year as in go for day. BOAT is slip kept.. 8AM SAt we take off have extra battery, cable, chart maps my 2 12 gallon tanks 20 more gallons of gas, oil reservier is FULL.. food, suit cases lots of cold beer for when I get there with my pardner , wives are good friends me and RON will kick back…. Off we go. Iam thinking hell Iam MANLY kinda guy looking for ADVENTURE!! Iam figurein  about a 3 hr trip running from 20 to 25mph.. ran my first tank out abouit a hour, was following bouys running red up river,things going good had a neat chart maps by TVA showe my marking ect.. I ran out of 1st tank of gas after about a hour changed to full tank 10 min later let son drive, he does fine 10 min later there is a CLANKing knocking nose, could tell motor was missing I started driving Talk about your a STUBBORN asshole  I TOLD YOU SO look from my wife….. I didn’t hear beeping nose(oiler beeps when not working)… no smoke , steam , smell… I cut off motor took off cover. I saw a cracked small hose that outlet that pumps water from engine to side of motor that lets you know water pump is working. I cut off bad hose pout back, this had nothing to do with problem. Engin was hot to touch.. well here I was with family floating Tenn River nobody around. what should I do? Just passed a god I know 3 wide 10 deep barge heading my way a few miles ago water dept is 40 feet in channel. My anchor ropw is 25..  I started motor back up, it was clanging more I could go forward just went slow. Fisherman came by I flagged him down he stopped, He asked me about oil told him it was 1/2 full. I cranked again he said its fixing to LOCK UP.. i shut if off.. let it cool cranked it again it just bumped didnt turn over.. HMmmm not good… we talked then I asked him the big one how far is closest mechinac.."About 5 miles that way,, I had a phone called info got marina "NOPE no one here  or gonna be here today but me" talk about being in  JAM… I told fisherman ID sure pay ya if you can tow me in… he had a RANGER 150  he said, "Ive been in your shoes before, you gotta rope?"  There is a GOD!! these fellow could have said see ya dont wanna be ya..  These  2 guys towed us a few miles told us  they had to stop saw fish in finder. They started fishing got into a mess of stripes, they cought 10 stripes it was great, wife and kids got a kick out of that… called folks we were on they were hour away they were on their way. When we got to dock and in slip I had $50 in my  hand and asked how much and the guy said "nothing the man didnt charge me anything and you just pass it on" I said please take this let me buy your lunch, take these 20 gallons of gas its not gonna do me any good. NOPE he didnt want nothing.. Well friends came picked us up (he to told me it was dumb to make the trip, so I HAD to listen to his remarks and rightfully so, I had screwed up his day driveing. We left boat over night, called had a friend pick up my trailor meet me there on SUN we picked it up now its in back yard.. END of story I had OIL in reseror tank, my water pump impeller replaced last year with cover off I can turn fly wheel about 4 turns and will turn  when starting but will come to stop and then will only bump unless your turn with had but will again come to stop and go no futher… Gonna have checked out, what ya think it is. Do I fix this motor or is it to OLD (86 Johnson 115) what could it be. d mac Tennessee

Response:

Question:

Just so you know, seminar fees are only $385; fishing and hunting portions of the trip are not deductible. With outfitters,lodges,speakers, materials to be paid, it is no more profitable than than any other legitimate business. Basically, it’s the same kind of deduction any business or profession can take for business-related expenses and available to just about anyone in any profession or business who qualifies. Requirements are tight -nobody is being taken advantage of.

Response:

: Just so you know, seminar fees are only $385; fishing and hunting portions : of the trip are not deductible. With outfitters,lodges,speakers, : materials to be paid, it is no more profitable than than any other : legitimate business. Basically, it’s the same kind of deduction any : business or profession can take for business-related expenses and : available to just about anyone in any profession or business who : qualifies. Requirements are tight -nobody is being taken advantage of. Don’t try and doubletalk the good folks.  Travel and accomodations are tax deductible.  Fishing and hunting guide fees are probably not deductible.   (At least that is what a tax professional told me when I asked about some work related deducaitons.)  You didn’t address the objections raised about posting here.  Many of us would prefer blatant commercial posts with no content not be posted here. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Don’t try and doubletalk the good folks.  Travel and accomodations are tax deductible.  Fishing and hunting guide fees are probably not deductible. (At least that is what a tax professional told me when I asked about some work related deducaitons.)  You didn’t address the objections raised about posting here.  Many of us would prefer blatant commercial posts with no content not be posted here. –Rick

I agree with you regarding the posting of this sort of commercial add.   Regarding travel and accomodations:  these expenses are deductable only if the primary purpose for which they were incurred relates to the educational seminar.  In other words, one cannot take a one day seminar in Montana, followed by 4 days of fly fishing and then write off the all of the travel and expenses.  I believe most of this topic is covered in 26 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Sec. 1.162-5 Expenses for education. A few examples from 26 CFR Sec 1.162-5 are set forth below, enjoy:     "Example (1). A, a self-employed tax practitioner, decides to take     a 1-week course in new developments in taxation, which is offered     in City X, 500 miles away from his home.  His primary purpose in     going to X is to take the course, but he also takes a side trip to     City Y (50 miles from X) for 1 day, takes a sightseeing trip while     in X, and entertains some personal friends.  A’s transportation     expenses to City X and return to his home are deductible but his     transportation expenses to City Y are not deductible.  A’s expenses     for meals and lodging while away from home will be allocated     between his educational pursuits and his personal activities.     Those expenses which are entirely personal, such as sightseeing and     entertaining friends, are not deductible to any extent.       Example (2). The facts are the same as in example (1) except that     A’s primary purpose in going to City X is to take a vacation.  This     purpose is indicated by several factors, one of which is the fact     that he spends only 1 week attending the tax course and devotes 5     weeks entirely to personal activities.  None of A’s transportation     expenses are deductible and his expenses for meals and lodging     while away from home are not deductible to the extent attributable     to personal activities.  His expenses for meals and lodging     allocable to the week attending the tax course are, however,     deductible.       Example (3). B, a high school mathematics teacher in New York     City, in the summertime travels to a university in California in     order to take a mathematics course the expense of which is     deductible under this section.  B pursues only one-fourth of a full     course of study and the remainder of her time is devoted to     personal activities the expense of which is not deductible.  Absent     a showing by B of a substantial nonpersonal reason for taking the     course in the university in California, the trip is considered     taken primarily for personal reasons and the cost of traveling from     New York City to California and return would not be deductible.     However, one-fourth of the cost of B’s meals and lodging while     attending the university in California may be considered properly     allocable to deductible educational pursuits and, therefore, is     deductible." If you realy want to see the rest of this code section, let me know. Andy

Response:

Andy What if you "attend" a meeting for 30 minutes each day and have the rest of the day off? Each day would be a training day! DB

Caveat;  I’m no tax attorney, but I’ll give my two cents. The regs require that the primary purpose of the travel, lodging, etc. be for the educational seminar before the costs can be deducted.  Were I the IRS agent (not an enviable position), I would have to conclude that the primary purpose of a trip composed of 30 mins of educational seminar per day, followed by as many hours as one can fit in the rest of the day for fishing, would be fishing not professional education. Accordingly, travel, lodging, etc. expenses would not be deductible.  Maybe you would be allowed to prorate the expense, however.  That is, deduct expense in proportion to time spent on legit pursuits.  Well, legit according to the IRS, anyway. Exactly how much time you must spend in seminars per dya to make all expenses deductible, I don’t know.  I imagine that would be evalauted on a case-by-case basis. Andy

Response:

Question:

keen english fly fisher visiting san francisco third week febuary enjoy both fresh and salt water need advice      please re — |                                          |

Response:

A countryman of yours runs a shop on Geary St. out around 10th Avenue, I think its called SF Flyfishers Exchange.  Very nice guy, and I’m sure he’d be of great assistance.  The Flyfishing stretch of Putah Creek is open, just below the Lake Berryessa Dam, about 1 hour north of SF.  Steelhead may be good in the north coast streams, Russian River, Smith, Gualala, Eel, but that will really depend on the weather.  Call shop when you get here, and check out the No Cal Report on this news group.–Crashjibe

Shop in question is SF Flyfishers Supply, located on Clement St. between 25th and 26th Ave. (1 Block north (?) of Geary St). Stephen Haggard/Doug Matteo owners (Haggard is the one from England) you can call them at (415) 668-3597

Response:

Question:

I’m planning a FF trip to Montana and Idaho in August. What flies should I start buying for the Bozeman and Henry’s Fork areas? — Regards, Robert Webmaster of "Author Author!," "The Defoe Page," and Sayville Middle School’s web site Author Author! is a  recipient of the Point Survey top 5% of the Internet award Visit Author Author! http://www.li.net/~scharf/author.html Visit The Defoe Page http://www.li.net/~scharf/defoe.html Visit Sayville Middle School http://www.li.net/~scharf/sayville.html

Response:

Hi, August in Montana is usually hopper time.  Depending on weather and water conditions, the hopper fishing on the Yellowstone, Madison, and Gallatin can be awsome!  Other good flies are any of the Bead Head nymphs, Royal Wulffs, Humpies, Trudes, Wooly Buggers.  For the spring creeks you’ll need midges, batis, pmd and of course hoppers. For the rivers in North Idaho, you’ll need the flies mentioned above but be sure to add Renegades and H&L Variants. For the Henry’s Fork I’ll defer to someone else on the newsgroup.  I only get over there two or three times a year which is not enough to give advise on what flies to bring on a trip.  There are several fly shops in the Island Park Area you could call for local conditions.  Also the shops in West Yellowstone are up to date on the Henry’s Fork. Good Luck. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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