Question:

Try building an order entry system for a large telco with a unionized work force. The union threatens to sue the company over the fonts and says the system is too easy to use, thereby threatening the jobs of the current call center workers because they "could" "conceivalby" be replaced by lower paid workers who don’t require the *13 weeks* of training that the old sytem required. This was a few jobs ago

Sheesh… you came just in time.  I was about to crack open a roll of foil On a positive note, I get back-to-back to business trips to San Diego and Las Vegas. So hopefully I can break out of the Northern VA winter doldrums and get in five or six rounds of golf.

Oh, man, then what do you have to complain about?  You have it pretty darn good, if you ask me.

Response:

Try building an order entry system for a large telco with a unionized work force. The union threatens to sue the company over the fonts and says the system is too easy to use, thereby threatening the jobs of the current call center workers because they "could" "conceivalby" be replaced by lower paid workers who don’t require the *13 weeks* of training that the old sytem required. This was a few jobs ago On a positive note, I get back-to-back to business trips to San Diego and Las Vegas. So hopefully I can break out of the Northern VA winter doldrums and get in five or six rounds of golf. Tim T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. "I had a better time fly fishing in Montana for 10 days than I had all year programming." — Jeff Connelly Try developing intranet portals for HR/Payroll departments in corporations all year.  They complain about the type and the color of fonts you used.  Oh, and "the background color for the menus is not pleasing to the eye".  I’d have a better time chewing on aluminum foil while staring at a wall for a week.  And at least you "program".  I feel more like a glorified website designer.

Response:

Maybe he should stop using the Momentus Training Club….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval.

Response:

– "

— "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. How much money did he earn snowboarding? Given his bank account, how much did he _need_ to earn? The statement was about having fun, not earning money.

I imagine most people would say they have more fun at play rather than work. I just don’t have much sympathy for him.  He’s playing golf for a living for God’s sake.  How much better can it get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                   Bruce E. Newman  *  Fredericton, NB, Canada               http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=newmanb      info at benewman dot bizland dot com   *   http://go.to/bruce_newman

Response:

Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. "I had a better time fly fishing in Montana for 10 days than I had all year programming." — Jeff Connelly

Try developing intranet portals for HR/Payroll departments in corporations all year.  They complain about the type and the color of fonts you used.  Oh, and "the background color for the menus is not pleasing to the eye".  I’d have a better time chewing on aluminum foil while staring at a wall for a week.  And at least you "program".  I feel more like a glorified website designer.

Response:

"I had a better time fly fishing in Montana for 10 days than I had all year programming." — Jeff Connelly

Sorry Jeff, but now heaven will be a let down. Cheers, Mike

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The trick is to have fun _and_ earn money.  At the GHO last summer, I followed Duval’s group for a while.  He was laboring his way through the round, looking like he was having a miserable time out there on his way to missing the cut.  It was a depressing sight.  Contrast that with Fred Funk, who was seen several times on TV last season, having fun, playing well, and making plenty of money.  That’s the way to go. Does good play lead to a positive attitude, or vice versa?  That conundrum is one of the things that makes golf such a great game. I agree – but Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods don’t appear to be at the top of the "having fun" scale while playing.

Appearances can be deceiving… Both Jack and Tiger really enjoy what they’re doing… The fact that they’re quieter or more reserved than other competitors doesn’t mean aren’t having fun. — Cheers- Jeff Setaro http://people.mags.net/jasetaro/ PGP Key IDs DH/DSS: 0×5D41429D RSA: 0×599D2A99 New RSA: 0xA19EBD34

Response:

I agree – but Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods don’t appear to be at the top of the "having fun" scale while playing. Appearances can be deceiving… Both Jack and Tiger really enjoy what they’re doing… The fact that they’re quieter or more reserved than other competitors doesn’t mean aren’t having fun.

Although Jack has admitted to not enjoying the game as much as his competitors back in his younger days. Still, as a spectator, I enjoy watching performers who seem to be enjoying themselves.  This applies at all levels, ages; in sports, and other show biz.

Response:

The trick is to have fun _and_ earn money.  At the GHO last summer, I followed Duval’s group for a while.  He was laboring his way through the round, looking like he was having a miserable time out there on his way to missing the cut.  It was a depressing sight.  Contrast that with Fred Funk, who was seen several times on TV last season, having fun, playing well, and making plenty of money.  That’s the way to go. Does good play lead to a positive attitude, or vice versa?  That conundrum is one of the things that makes golf such a great game.

I agree – but Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods don’t appear to be at the top of the "having fun" scale while playing.

Response:

— "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. How much money did he earn snowboarding? Given his bank account, how much did he _need_ to earn? The statement was about having fun, not earning money.

The trick is to have fun _and_ earn money.  At the GHO last summer, I followed Duval’s group for a while.  He was laboring his way through the round, looking like he was having a miserable time out there on his way to missing the cut.  It was a depressing sight.  Contrast that with Fred Funk, who was seen several times on TV last season, having fun, playing well, and making plenty of money.  That’s the way to go. Does good play lead to a positive attitude, or vice versa?  That conundrum is one of the things that makes golf such a great game.   – cja

Response:

Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. "I had a better time fly fishing in Montana for 10 days than I had all year programming." — Jeff Connelly

Ah, but what if they paid your to fly fish? You might loose your enthusiasm for it.  (p.s. I don’t know who *they* are or I’d have that job already)

Response:

Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval.

"I had a better time fly fishing in Montana for 10 days than I had all year programming." — Jeff Connelly

Response:

Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval.

Response:

Final word "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval.

I think he said pretty much the same thing last year. Probably explains his season. — Dan Driscoll Charter Member Super Secret Sinister Golf Society (SSSGS)

Response:

–   "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval.

How much money did he earn snowboarding?

Response:

— "I had a better time snowboarding in two weeks than I had all year playing golf." — David Duval. How much money did he earn snowboarding?

Given his bank account, how much did he _need_ to earn? The statement was about having fun, not earning money. Bruce                   Bruce E. Newman  *  Fredericton, NB, Canada                                 http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=newmanb      info at benewman dot bizland dot com   *   http://go.to/bruce_newman

Response:

Question:

The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Frank, Since I don’t see much advice – I can offer my 2cents – the area you’ll be in is a tough one to come up with "non salt" unless you want to drive a long distance. If your interested I’ll post a map of the area and a few suggestions on possible light saltwater flyfishing. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Thanks Gary, but that being the case I’ll just drop my load and hustle on home. I’ll work on my dispatcher to get me a run to Florida instead. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, Since I don’t see much advice – I can offer my 2cents – the area you’ll be in is a tough one to come up with "non salt" unless you want to drive a long distance. If your interested I’ll post a map of the area and a few suggestions on possible light saltwater flyfishing. Gary The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Question:

Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there.

Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

Response:

Not my wife (Gaelle), lest she kill me. Just a co-presenter (Taryn McCann) who catches bigger fish. My curse? Having to fire her pretty ass before she catches more! I ain’t caught no mullet. Sudesh Pursad has (I think) www.bamba.co.za. Ari Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Mike, I love casting a silk line, they really bring old bamboo rods to life. they need fussing with but it’s worth it when using the older rods with small line guides. and it floats well when fresh. when it gets waterlogged around lunch time just spread it out between a couple trees to air dry, finish lunch and retreat with Mucilin Red Label- don’t use the Green Label, it has silicone which is BAD for silk. or you can do what i do and buy two half lines – Thebault makes them – and switch lines when one gets waterlogged. you can find Phoenix and Thebault lines at www.wagnerrods.com at a good price. the Phoenix is a more polished line right out of the box, the Thebault will take a little breaking in. both are beautiful to look at and hit the water so softly and quietly….try it , you’ll like it cheers, Bob please visit my site at http://www.bluecollarcane.com

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same?

I use a Phoenix silk DT5 on an old bamboo rod. They’re a match made in flyfishing heaven. Have never tried it on a modern rod. The only place I know of to get a NEW silk line is to mail order from Phoenix in France. http://www.phoenixlines.com/ You can find used silk in the US, but be careful, and make sure you’re getting silk and not nylon. Reed Curry has an excellent article on his web site about purchasing and cleaning old silk lines. http://www.overmywaders.com/articles/cleaningsilk.html HTH — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Ari I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Response:

Question:

My provider has warned me that my account will be suspended, due to my sending off-topic posts, and insults. This is a direct result of Gehrkes lies. A copy of the first post is appended. I can not afford to lose my Usenet access at this time, I need it for my work.  As a consequence, I have no choice but to unsubscribe from ROFF. If you wish to contact me,.please use e-mail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:53 AM Hallo Herr Connor, bitte den "Privatkrieg" beenden, hier kommen Beschwerden

Question:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I love Mad River boats BUT one might get a little argument about the Explorer being the best all rounder from Swift Kipawa fans. who would suggest that the Kipawa is more stable more speedy (and faster too) more capacious more maneuverable more white water capable more seaworthy and more perttier. — Lyle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file.

If you want one boat that will do everything, I agree (though I haven’t tried the Swift).  If you want a boat for primarily or exclusively flatwater, then there are better choices out there in composite/fiberglass/kevlar — Andrew

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

I’ve been a kayaker for a while now, but just recently my new girlfriend wanted a canoe for us.  Have been looking for a used Royalite, or Royalex canoe for a couple months — just today we found it! I consulted with other canoe-types in the club, and this Mohawk Nova 16 (or other similar brands/models) seemed to do it all.  It is Royalex.  This is the exact one we got today, used for $500 with four float bags.  Boats like this are sort of "Do It All" dealies. Each time some new person asks "Which Canoe should i get?" i always say ‘Buy a used, decent brand’ and this is the first time i’ve had to try it out. We like this boat!

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. I own both an Old Town Discovery and the Explorer, and find the Old Town is too heavy to carry any distance (not to mention lift). The Explorer is lighter, handles better, and yes, it’s easier on the eyes. The Discovery might plow through rocks better, but takes on water in the slightest chops. I used to own a Coleman, I’m glad it died an ugly rocky death long ago. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5189/index.htm Reach out and touch a rock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while

With a dang, clanging Coleman, the lake’s not going to stay quiet for long. It’s practically a percussion instrument Eddy "Colemans are for keeping beer cool" Rapid.

Response:

It sounds like you’ve been doing your research.  I agree with all your points. About three years ago, I faced the same question.  Like you, I wanted the best for the least.  I purchased a OT Disco158.  I like it fine but if I had the opportunity to make that decision again, I would save a little more money and by the lighter boat with a more efficient hull.  I use it mostly for day paddling with my wife or fishing with my children.  I’ve run a class III in it but don’t suggest it.  I’ve paddled it 32 miles through the Okeefenokee swamp and camped out of it.  I am not interested in getting rid of it but, would not buy another. I understand the Disco169 has a more efficient hull but, it weighs in at a hefty 85lbs. You will find that weight makes more of a difference than you think.  I can car-top my 80lb canoe by myself but "it ain’t pretty."  The yolk makes it easier to carry but it still weighs 80lbs.  A lighter canoe will respond better to corrections/steering and may even be a little faster. If you can stand to wait, I’d recommend it.  You’ll just end up wanting to buy different one in a few years.  I would have by now but I am discovering both sea and whitewater kayaks! Oh yeah, one other thing.  If you really think you’re going to enjoy the sport, don’t give the Coleman too much thought.  You really DO get what you pay for in a canoe. Eric da Grate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death…    

                        ~* s n i p *~ If you don’t mind the $65 or so shipping charge, try calling one of the companies someone mentioned else mentioned earlier: Rutabaga in Madison, Wisconsin sells LOTS of boats.  They always have new Old Town blems on hand at a greatly reduced rate.  Not a bad deal for a first boat.   They will be getting lots of used boats in another month after their annual "Canoecopia" show; many people will be trading in their boats for something new. Give them a call at 800-472-3353 (800-I-PADDLE) or check out their website:  www.paddlers.com Tell Darren I sent ya. Good luck. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

Response:

Thank you all for the replies & advice. I realize that researching a purchase like this, then even trying out different boats would be the best of all worlds, but hearing from folks that have been there is also a definite help. Thanks again!

Response:

If the Coleman is the only way you are going to get on the water, do it!  If you want a boat, get one of the others.  Go demo some boats. The newsgroups cannot tell you how you will feel in a boat.  you need to try them.  Borrow a Coleman and then you can feel the pain in your lower back as you haul it to the water.  Then you will be informed. Try a lake boat with a keel in a moving river and learn why a keel is not too swell in moving water.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

Response:

Hello!

Well hello to you! I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe.

Actually, they aren’t.  Not compared to Old Town, Mad RIver, Mohawk, etc.  I wouldn’t want to hit too many rocks with a coleman.  Aluminum canoes are extremely durable, but, and this is a BIG BUTT, it’s hard to keep the suckers quiet.  Each and every time you place your paddle in the boat, you and every fish within 300 feet will hear the ‘thud’. I hear the Boy Scouts using them all the time at Upper Priest lake in Idaho…very noisy. already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

You live around here in Spokane?  You join the Spokane Canoe and Kayak Club yet?  I’m the newsletter editor.  We’re having our largest meeting/auction/potluck of the year come February 26th — next friday. If you wanna see a LOT of activity, come see it.  Email me if you want more info.

Response:

For the money you’re looking to spend, I would suggest you test paddle an OT Penobscot 17.  I’ve used mine quite a bit on lakes in minneapolis and in the BWCA.  It’s got moderate initial stability, fantastic secondary stability.  It has no rocker so it tracks like a arrow, but turns like a pig.  Leaning into a turn can give you a good bit of effective rocker.  Its a great tripping boat.

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Tom, I was in your position a few years ago, let me tell you what I bought. I found that the best tradeoff for weight, durability, and cost, for lake and occasional class I/II rivers is fiberglass.  Not the cheap chopper gun variety, but a canoe made up of decent sheet materials.  I chose a Wenonah, largely because I have a great local dealer who sells them (as well as Mad River). Fiberglass advantages are hull stiffness without bulk which = paddling efficiency, no flex while paddling, easily repairable if it does become damaged, etc.  Fiberglass slips across rocks in a low water condition much better than aluminum – avoid that material at all costs if you plan on running low water.  About the only disadvantage is that the gel coat looks beautiful when new, and quickly gets scraped up pretty bad – but that means you’re actually USING the boat, doesn’t it? Your ideal boat in a plastic would be royalex – much lighter than the Old Town crosslink.  It’s well worth the upgrade cost.  I see tons of the Discovery boats for sale – and no royalex boats for sale!! You don’t find many (good) canoes for sale, because most people have no reason to sell them! They’re not that expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care. Good luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe.

Yes, it has been done a lot, infact I bet a search on dejanews (www.dejanews.com) would answer most if not all your questions. The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while, or for giving to a scout troop to learn in (cheap and nigh on industructible).  I have an old town discovery 164 which is about the same as the penobscott, just weighs more… a lot more on a long portage. Personally I’d look around for a used good boat, and stay away from the colemans. Hope this helps Rich Johnson Enfield Nova Scotia Canada

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For flatwater, class I and Class II a good quality fiberglass (cloth, not spray in chopper gun) canoe would be the best bet.  I’d look for a used one, some places (like Rutabaga in Madison, WI and Piragis in ELY, MN) sell a number of used boats like that.  A new We-No-Nah in Tufweave (fiberglass like) can be had for $8-900.  Western Canoeing has similar boats.  Used Kevlar could be in the same range, used fiberglass less. These would work for Class I, not good for Class III, Class II depends on skill level.  For mostly whitewater, Royalex is a better choice, but maybe you can borrow a canoe for those infrequent forays?  It will be heavier and harder to paddle.  Coleman’s are a poor design, Discovery’s are (in the 16′ 9" and 17′ 4" versions) an okay design, but overy heavy and don’t have the long term durability of Royalex. Aluminum is a fine material for flatwater, as good or better than plastic, but can be dangerous in whitewater and a pain in shallow rivers as it tends to stick to rocks, so it’s easy to get stuck and broach. I’d rather (actually I do) have a 17′ Grumman than a Coleman or Discovery. I’d look for a quality fiberglass or used Kevlar boat from We-No-Nah, Mad River, Western, Sawyer. — Andrew Gooding

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Question:

Fished the Cellar on 6/15 & 6/17 between 18:30 and  22:00 and they were taking spinners (looked like mayfly 14-18). I started with tan & rust caddis and after several refusals I switched to small elk hair cahills and got a small brown and a chubber. Noticed several carcasses on my line and began peering at the water it was loaded with spinners in and below the film. I changed to a lame kind of trico/frankenstien spinner that I tied with a clump of CDC and BANG ! a nice fat, very active brown destroyed it. Picked fish thereafter at an acceptable rate. As an aside, I went Salt water catching for stripers earlier in the day on 6/17 and my first hour of casts on the Hous were a PANIC ! I threw that fly out there so fast that fish in the Sand hole were put down ! No shortage of fish at any of the other places I stopped (One car, Two car). What great nights. Lets go Alders !!! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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Well, it was not a bad weekend at the Housie. Got there on Thursday and stayed until Monday.  Here is a brief synopsis of events. Water temps were excellent.  Morning temps were about 64 and evening temps were about 70-72.  Dam is doing pond & release (up by 1 pm and going down at about 5-6pm.  Have no idea how lack of water will affect this.  There was no rain the previous week but it poured Friday Night. Everything was hatching for this time of the year (cahill, isonychia (sp?), sulfur, caddis, etc.), EXCEPT the Alder.  As of Monday morning at Push ‘Em Up, no Alders in sight, although I did get Phil’s (Orvis Fly Shop) guarantee that it was going to hatch that Sunday night!  Oh well. Morning fishing was from lousy to non-existent.  Fished Push ‘Em Up, Cellar Hole, Long Pool, & Campground to little or no avail.  HFFA members left over from the previous camping weekend said that morning fishing had been difficult all week. Evening fishing, on the other hand, was very good.  Cahill hatches by the truck load just before dark.  All holes seemed to be good, especially in front of the campground (like my last report).  The fish started after emergers at about 7-7:30 and were fully rising by dark. Sunday night they were hitting extremely strange at Carse.  Only caught one out of over a dozen hits and about 5 drops!  The only reason I caught him was that he rolled over the fly and I fouled him behind the pectoral! That’s it for now.  Don’t know about my next trip.  I am trying to get my Dad back down to the Beaverkill again, but I don’t know.  Cannot plan for the Housatonic Quill (White Fly) hatch in August as the "80 degree" river shut down rule may be in effect!  They have already changed the restricted dates on the tributaries.  That went into effect on 15 June. – Mike (Please remove the "NOSPAM." from my address and domain before responding) P.S. – Asking a favor!  For anyone who camps at the Housie, conditions are MISERABLE.  Things are not getting repaired (backed up toilet, sink, shut off water pump, grass not cut, felled trees not cut up, etc.)  If you have time, PLEASE write a letter to the DEP and complain.  I have been going to this place for 25 years, and I am getting really disgusted.  If anyone feels the same way, please write.  Thanx.

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Question:

Hello,   How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

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Hello,  How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Hi Kevin You will probably get an answer from someone on this newgroup.  However if you do not don’t dispair, call the Federation of Fly Fishers and ask about a club in your area.  Get the contact info from the FFF and call the club contact person (usually the president).  From there you can get information, join the club, make new fishing friends, etc. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I will be in Hamilton, Ontario at the end of June. I was wondering if there is any good fly-fishing (doesn’t have to be trout) nearby? cheers, Richard

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I will be in Hamilton, Ontario at the end of June. I was wondering if there is any good fly-fishing (doesn’t have to be trout) nearby?

Good trout in upstream sections of Grand, Credit, and several other SWO rivers, e.g. Saugeen, depending how far you want to travel;  smallmouth bass nearly everywhere.  Make contact if you can with the Izaak Walton FFC, pool of abundant knowledge. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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The Grand River is nearby and has trophy size brown trout in it. It runs by the towns of Fergus and Elora. It was written up in Fly Fisherman last year (September 1995). Neil Houlding is a good guide for the area (519-740-3442). Tell him I sent you. There is a section on the Grand River at the Virtual Fly Shop web site (www.flyshop.com) under their "Riverkeepers" section. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

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The closest good trout stream to you is Whitemans Creek, just outside of Brantford.  Approx.  20 min. away.  Things are coming off and it is a good place to be right now.  And yes the Grand and credit are great as well, just not as close, and not as intimate. Cheers, gp  Donald Phillipson

: I will be in Hamilton, Ontario at the end of June. I was wondering : if there is any good fly-fishing (doesn’t have to be trout) nearby? : Good trout in upstream sections of Grand, Credit, and several other SWO : rivers, e.g. Saugeen, depending how far you want to travel;  smallmouth : bass nearly everywhere.  Make contact if you can with the Izaak Walton : FFC, pool of abundant knowledge. : — : |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | : |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         | — gp

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Thanks to everyone for the information about fly-fishing near Hamilton. I really appreciate it! This is a great group! cheers, Richard

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Question:

Man, you guys over there in the good ole US of A don’t know what you’re missin’ out on!! Seriously though some excellent fly-fishing is to be had in Tassie. My favourite moments are those when the fish is poking around in 4 inchs of water, spotted back and dorsals breaking the surface. The fish’s window of vision is so small the fly needs to land right in the fish’s path. Too close and the fish is spooked, too far and the fish won’t even notice the fly. I’ve spent up to two hours on a single fish until finally setting the hook. If you fancy a bit of polaroiding then Tassie’s sandy bottom lakes will make you happy (although their not all sandy bottomed!!!!). Large fish up to around 8 pounds cruise around in these crystal clear waters, some tarns are not bigger than an average family’s block of land. If you don’t mind inching your way around on your stomach trying to fool a brown, then Tassie is place for your next visit. Just remember Got any questions about Tassie then read a book! or ask ME..I live in Melbourne which just across bass strait for those of you not familiar. Tassie’s nice but I wouldn’t live there. By the way I am looking for female fly-fishing penfriends….leave a message and I’ll get back. Mark

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Man, you guys over there in the good ole US of A don’t know what you’re missin’ out on!! Seriously though some excellent fly-fishing is to be had in Tassie. Got any questions about Tassie then read a book! or ask ME..I live in Melbourne which just across bass strait for those of you not familiar. Mark

Or you con contact me. I live in the US but my Father in Law is in Tazzie and is Currently the President of Fly Fish Australia. Malcom (his name) and I are in the planning stage of arranging holiday packages for the fly fisherman who would like to try some of the BEST fishing in the world, Anyone interested should contact me, as he is not yet on the net, but we’re working on it. Thanks.

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Question:

Looking for any information on fly fishing for trout in the Phoenix, Arizona area, radius 250 miles.  Streams, rivers, lakes, etc..

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Sedona, is w/in your 250 miles, boasts art galleries, shops, and great fishing. There is a small stream, Oak Creek Canyon, that holds Browns and stocked Bows. Fish above slide rock for the browns.  Tan Caddis larva was working well this month.  The White Mountains, about 200 miles east of Phoenix has a wide variety of streams and lakes, almost all of which are full of browns, bows, brookies, and the native Apache golden trout. (602)902-0881.

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