Question:

You’re actually going to fish with them. I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

You’re actually going to fish with them.

yup! hell, i can’t tie anywhere as nice as you guys….. hell, they’re meant to catch fish! I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune.

well, your (and others) have gone up in value, as there will soon be one less set on the market. –waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks fro everything Frank!  Draive safely. Op

Response:

<<  "Frank Church"   << I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator   Thank you so much. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

God it’s got to be the first clave ever!!  See Wayno on the right.  Go to www.csse.monsah.edu.au/~steve/clave.jpg

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

Question:

That’s a pretty little fish from a lovely looking stream!   Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

…..Valley Creek…….flows through Valley Forge National Park…….a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis……

Damn!  I looked at that creek one time, about six or seven years ago. My sister’s back yard borders the park.  When I went to visit her I looked at the stream rather closely and thought that it might be an adequate habitat but…..nah, WAY too urban.  Damn! Wolfgang who hadn’t bothered to bring any fishing gear      :(

Response:

Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Yes, this is all true. The creek from what I was told is extremly hard to fish. I felt very lucky to catch one on my second visit there. I am actually moving in the summer about 15 min. from Tuplehocken, I have not fished there yet but have heard some great things about it. Valley Creek and French Creek are currently my home waters until June. Are there any tips about Tuplehocken that I can use, especially since it will be my new home waters.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

nice’un matt… my first was discovered in lost cove creek.  i continue to this day to be the recipient of the meager crumbs offered by ol pj, who for some misguided reason carted my ass along on one of his wayno-less forays into lost cove creek in 1979 or 1980. on our way through morganton, i bought a fenwick fiberglass rod and a martin reel.  back then you could drive the goat trail to the creek…if you didn’t care about the underbody.  as i recall, jim showed me a knot, gave me 2 yellow humpies, and said – "there’s the stream, the fish are in it, good luck"… leaving me to flog about in lonely but uncriticized desperation, he then went way upstream to the sassafrass area.  i waded, slid into the water with my rubber-sole hip boots (yeah, he thought that was funny too – jim’s got a dangerous sense of funny – i soon discovered the humor, painfully so).  but, i caught a trout in a riffle right in front of me.    don’t have any idea what it was, but it hooked me and i’ve been wigglin happy on the hook ever since. to this day, i consider pj’s gift of the stream second only to the grace of marriage to my wife rachel. jeff (who’s formal education in trout streams didn’t begin until i matriculated with wally and some of this crowd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind

Good story Matt. Willi

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh?

BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a *monster*. Just another of those tricks I learned from a fellow ROFFian. ‘Course seeing as you are the one who *taught* me that trick I guess you already know it. –Steve

Response:

Yeah – I ’bout died of exhaustion. Must have had to fight the monster for 30 seconds, but time went by so slow it seemed like a whole minute or two. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh? BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a

*monster*. alright, alright….

Response:

Congratulations! My first fish on a fly was a chub.  I hated chub.  This stupid chub, which was sitting in a pool with a few brook trout, took my wooley bugger that I was told would catch me lots of brook trout.  The chub dang near devoured the whole fly.   I really dislike fish that make squeaking noises when you’re trying to dislodge a hook from it’s mouth.  I can never get over that. Spooks me too much to hear this ugly looking thing make noises while I’ve got the forceps in its mouth.  Gives me the shivers. I almost gave up on fly fishing after that.  I was about 15 years old, and had the impression that the only fish I could catch on a fly were beautiful trout.   Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s not true.  I still can’t deal with the freakin squeeks of a chub though. Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/

Response:

nice story matt…… i crossed winkler’s yesterday on a trip into boone. the ice has melted and i thought about the times when we used to fish that lil ole feeder stream that flows into winklers….. mebbe i’ll go back there this year. we’re getting rain today…. unbelievable, maybe 6 inches of snow this season total. i’m gonna head out somewhere today if the rains let up…. thinkin’ about high up on the watauga. see ya in pa, –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. The really neat thing was that I caught it on a dry fly and got to see the fish rise and take the fly. I don’t know why I picked Snowbird instead of a more convenient stream, but that was it. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod and fishing for steelhead (lake run rainbows?) at the time…… Things have improved a little since. It was a pretty fish though, and it remains the only brookie I have ever caught on a fly. Vaughan

Response:

I started fly-fishing with a two-handed European-style salmon rod. (Most of the guys in our unofficial fishing club prefer salmon fishing nowadays.) The first catch was a 4" salmon parr from river Gaula in Norway. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel.

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod…

Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

Lissen here – that was an epic battle. Me and my stick versus the cunning slimy carnivorous predator! — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod… Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

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    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

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Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike…

Yeah, I hear dat….

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   Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career.

        boys, i have fished for thirty years in the blue ridge, and i have seen exactly three folks who can do it as well as this guy. thanks for pulling back the veil on your first time, mccrayfish.         the down side is, it will get much tougher the older you get. the blue ridge is not a gentle partner. your friend in the old north state wayno

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I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

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 With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

        well, with deepest regret i must admit that your story is far more heroic than mine.         i signed up to work for a law firm in greensboro, nc, in the fall of 1969.  one of the partners was a guy who is still one of my best friends, a yankee from uptstate new york, around the roscoe area. i had fished with a fly rod since i was 9 or 10, but only for warm water fish.  he suggested a trip to the catskills, and there we were: the beaverkill, the willowemoc, harry darby, walt dette, all that yankee folklore…and it was really neat.  but the first fish i caught was a 6 inch brown, hauled in on the end of a muddler minnow, on the east branch of the delaware, a long way from the crystal waters that would become my home, just a year or so from then.  but that’s another story, with another friend. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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"Carlos Figueroa" wrote… I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Your story is better than mine.  The first fish I caught on a fly was a 3" Bluegill 23 years ago.  But I can safely say it’s been all up hill from there. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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    My first was a ten inch brook trout on a size 8 hopper. I was lucky enough to spend my younger years in a town with many good trout streams within biking distance, and caught this one on a little spring creek that ran behind the IGA.     It was great growing up with 3 trout streams within 15min bike ride of my house, and once I got the hang of the fly rod, there were some dandy Bull trout to be had. With the ban on bulls in Alberta, I’d bet some of my old fishin’ grounds have some dandy bulls (Although I once found a dead 34" bull under the bridge, so even then there were some hogs).     Robbie

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Question:

Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting.

One of the hardest situations, for me, is when the fish want just a bit of vibration or a twitch. It is easy to give a fly significant movement but I find it hard to give just that little shift in position that can indicate life to the fish and bring them to the fly. There are many situations, I feel, where this tiniest amount of movement will trigger a strike, while significant movement or drag will put down the fish. The movement, on slow water, is merely a twitch that makes the fly quiver. This quiver is tough to do but it is one of things I try on tough fish. If you get it right, you frequently get the fish.  Do it wrong and the fish is down. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis…. I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  I have often fished with a partner.  We move up the stream together, taking turns fishing.  It’s a good method for critiquing one anther’s technique, in addition to providing company astream.  Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious choices.

If you analyze this and do it in a more purposeful manner, you’d hook even more. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream. Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging?

That’s interesting as there’s a section of the West Branch of the upper Credit that is composed of cascades and pocket water that has never produced much for me on wets.  I’ve never fished it in the manner you described as I’ve always attempted to dead drift all my presentations, dry or wet.  Most of the time, I’ve use heavily dressed dries such as Henryville Specials and only broke out the wets when I’m on the verge of a skunking.  I’ll have to try your more aggressive approach this coming season. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging?

I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action. I came across this technique through a fortunate accident. Some years ago, I was fishing some pocket water and wasn’t have much luck. As I remember, I was fishing a sizable nymph and decided to change flies. As I began dragging in the fly, it skimmed along the surface and was taken by a nice fish. I figured the fish wanted a dry and fished one in a traditional no drag manner with no results. Then it dawned on me to add some action. Although I’ll frequently twitch caddis dries, the action I give the flies when fishing this technique is much greater. On many of the casts, there is no drag free part of the drift. The fly is dragged across the current and skipped through small pockets and hopped upstream. Not all insects float in a sedate manner like a Mayfly. Many Caddis hop across the surface laying eggs. Stoneflies will "swim" across the surface leaving a wake. Craneflies are very active on the surface. I sometimes try to imitate these but mainly I try to give the fish a vision of something alive and eatable. I have a sense of when this technique will be effective but I’m not aware of all the variables. It is a very aggressive technique that works in summer on hot sunny days. I believe that the pocket water and rapids where I use this technique, although they are often excellent feeding areas for trout, become even more desirable when water temps start rising. The heavily aerated water makes the fish comfortable enough to feed even during the heat of the day. Good fish will move into these shallow aerated areas at these times. I use it most during the hottest part of the summer and usually in the middle of the day but will use it at other times. I use it when I have a sense that the fish are "sulking" or resting, or reluctant to feed. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,    Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ Reed Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH

Peter, If at all possible, can you bring a two-handed or spey rod to the PA clave with you? Yesterday, I was involved in a situation where I couldn’t get my line across the river to a mighty large fish stationed against a cliff wall. I finally realized that short of a boat, the only way I could present a fly due to the trees behind me was with a big ole roll cast of some type. Unfortunately, I can’t roll cast a 4wt 70-80 feet. Than it dawned on me that a spey might be the answer. Anyway, I’ll trade ya some devlish bow&arrow techniques for a basic spey/2-hand lesson at the PA clave<g Yesterday, I enjoyed swingin wets to some cooperative ‘bows. Jeff and I probably caught about 20-30 each…. finally, a day astream in the frozen mountains. We’re headed back out this am once he shows up… Walt

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The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis….

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  I have often fished with a partner.  We move up the stream together, taking turns fishing.  It’s a good method for critiquing one anther’s technique, in addition to providing company astream.  Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious choices. Wolfgang

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I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  …… Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious

choices. I’ve mentioned this before as well, but I caught a decent little brown trailing a royal wulff downstream while untangling my line at the reel. Felt lucky, but didn’t feel smart. Joe F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting. and Steve… that was a fine trout you caught on boone’s that monday afternoon… a nice wild brown. Steve Z., now known as USCG "icebreaker" Zimmerman, caught some fish nymphing today on the Watauga. I caught a bunch of ice and one trout using a yella wooly buggah. –Walt

The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis.  If there’s a good breeze blowing downstream, I’ll let a mayfly pattern blow in the breeze above a rising fish. Drives ‘em nuts and I’ve had small bows leap out to take it. About the USCG Zimmerman.  Can he be loaned out for some northern ice breaking? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action. I’m gonna have to try this more often. Skittering a dry fly worked pretty well in North Carolina last spring, and was recommended to me by Walt Winter. It makes me think of all those time I’ve picked up my dry fly for a cast and pulled it away from a fish. —

Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting. and Steve… that was a fine trout you caught on boone’s that monday afternoon… a nice wild brown. Steve Z., now known as USCG "icebreaker" Zimmerman, caught some fish nymphing today on the Watauga. I caught a bunch of ice and one trout using a yella wooly buggah. –Walt

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If at all possible, can you bring a two-handed or spey rod to the PA clave with you? Yesterday, I was involved in a situation where I couldn’t get my line across the river to a mighty large fish stationed against a cliff wall. I finally realized that short of a boat, the only way I could present a fly due to the trees behind me was with a big ole roll cast of some type. Unfortunately, I can’t roll cast a 4wt 70-80 feet. Than it dawned on me that a spey might be the answer. Anyway, I’ll trade ya some devlish bow&arrow techniques for a basic spey/2-hand lesson at the PA clave<g Yesterday, I enjoyed swingin wets to some cooperative ‘bows. Jeff and I probably caught about 20-30 each…. finally, a day astream in the frozen mountains. We’re headed back out this am once he shows up… Walt

Sounds like you had an awesome day – that many fish during the winter takes some doing.  Magic fly" Sure, I can bring my 8/9 Lamiglass with me.  Though only a 10′ 6" rod, it has a classic spey action and will spey cast the distance you need. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter,     Thank you. That agrees with my experience. I use a 10′  Chubb 6wt. for much of my wetfly fishing, for all the reasons that you describe. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action.

I’m gonna have to try this more often. Skittering a dry fly worked pretty well in North Carolina last spring, and was recommended to me by Walt Winter. It makes me think of all those time I’ve picked up my dry fly for a cast and pulled it away from a fish. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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You’d be downgrading that "calibre" part if you ever see me nymph. When dredging, I need all the help I can get.

Oh, if i live long enough I’m sure I will see it, because I’d like to fish with you at least once. And I’m sure you are exaggerating your difficulties. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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Peter,     Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ It’s quite true that the tippet size isn’t a big deal on the swing as the fish tend to charge the fly.  However, on the dead drift part of the cast, the fish do get a good look at it.  In clear water fishing to "educated" trout, I downsize my tippet.  With the long, slow rods I use, the odds of a break-off are reduced. Peter

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Peter,    Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/

Reed Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods fail. Wet fly fishing essentially mimics the emerger stage and normally the flies are fished quite shallow.  Many of us resort to emerger nymphs when we see typical emerger riseforms however, wets were traditionally used years ago under the same conditions and there is no reason why they won’t be effective today. Wet flys come in two basic categories, winged wets such as the Lead Wing Coachman and soft hackle wets typified by the Partridge & Orange. Wet flies can be fished in a variety of ways: dead drifted or swung, as a dry with floatant, in the surface film, just under the surface, or deep like a nymph.  The presentation seeks to mimic a number of insect behaviours; emerging insect migration to the surface or shoreline, female egg laying dives, swimming nymphs, drowned spinners, emerger struggling through the surface tension, and the actual emergence of adult from the pupal/nymphal shuck. Considering this range of behaviours, any motion imparted to the fly should be at slow speed in keeping with the behaviour of the insect. The normal down and across swing first presents the fly with a dead drift, followed by an acceleration during the swing to a stop at the end of the swing.  The angle of the the cast with respect to the current should be dependent on current speed.  In a slow moving flat, the cast should be made at about 90 degrees to the current.  In fast water, the angle should be as little as 30 degrees.  By modifying the angle of the presentation, we can keep the speed of the fly within realistic proportions despite fast or slow current conditions.  In very slow current conditions, a downstream mend can be made to pull the fly along and prevent it from sinking to the bottom.  In still water, use a very slow , hesitating retrieve. In typical moderate currents, I favour an upstream cast at about 45 degrees followed by a highstick dead drift, followed in turn by the normal swing and ended with a Leisering lift.  Strikes can occur at any point and can be particularly difficult to detect in the upstream dead drift section.  If you think you are missing strikes, place a very small indicator a few feet above the fly. Good mending contributes to getting the fly down, keeping a straight line to enhance strike detection and prolonging the dead drift portion.  After the initial upstream cast, I make a series of small mends to prevent a belly from forming.  I’m also raising the rod tip to take up the slack line that accumulates as the fly approaches.  As the fly drifts by me, I prolong the dead drift by dropping the rod tip and continuing to mend.  Once the the line is fully extended and the rod tip is low, I allow the fly to swing in the current, continuing to mend ot keep the line straight.  Once I’ve completed the lift at the end of the drift, I make an upstream lob cast to start the next drift. I try to avoid false-casting as I want the fly to remain wet so it will sink immediately.  False casting will dry it out.  I will false cast though if I’m using a wet to simulate a drowned spinner. Normally I use a long, slow four to six weight rod, a double taper floating line for good mending, long 10′ to 14′ leaders, fine tippet 5X and smaller, and no splitshot.  If I want the wet to sink deep, I use fluorocarbon tippet and a series of upstream mends to get it down. Wets can be employed as a searching pattern or fished to specific fish holding target zones.  During the swing phase, if the fly is deep and passing a good "fishy" spot, gently lift the rod tip so that the fly will swing up like and emerging insect.  If there’s a fish holding there, this behaviour will likely provoke a strike. Wets are a gentle, peaceful, traditional way of fishing and I often resort to it whenever I’m just out fishing to relax.  It lacks the activity of streamer retrieves, the concentration of dries and the indicator watching of nymphing.  Most strikes on the swing are felt rather than seen so intense watching isn’t needed as much.  Tradironal wets, IMHO are the most attractive of trout flys and I enjoy tying them more than any other kind.  If you haven’t tried wet flies before, tie up a bunch and get swinging. Peter

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Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods fail. (good info. snipped Peter

Peter, I will be heading up to the trout streams in the next few days and nymphing or wets will be the rule. Typically, on small streams I resist soft hackle flys because they just don’t get down without weight in the short drifts.  I use an AirFlo leader system. In using soft hackle and streamers should I go to a slow sink or hover leader? — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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<interesting stuff on wet flies snipped Agree entirely with your thoughts on wet fly fishing.  It’s still used extensively for brownies around where I live in Scotland, on both rivers and on lochs. I find wets tied in the spider style satisfying in their simplicity and aesthetic appeal (i.e. I can tie them) and very effective. One of the things I like is that you can fish the same rig  - I usually only use a single fly  or at most two – upstream or down as the situation demands and you can also cast to rising fish as though you were fishing dries. traprain

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Peter, I will be heading up to the trout streams in the next few days and nymphing or wets will be the rule. Typically, on small streams I resist soft hackle flys because they just don’t get down without weight in the short drifts.  I use an AirFlo leader system. In using soft hackle and streamers should I go to a slow sink or hover leader? — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

As I fish soft hackles as a drowned spinner or emerger, I don’t worry about getting it down too deep.  Most of my stikes have come within the top six inches of the water column.  Soft hackles tied on a traditionalheavy wire wet fly hook like a Mustad 3906 or 3906B will have a pretty good sink rate.  I’ve seen factory wets tied on light wire hooks and these won’t get down much.  I actually prefer to have both with me so I can fish shallow or deep. As far as the Airflo leaders go, a clear intermediate would be my choice.   Peter

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Wet fly fishing essentially mimics the emerger stage and normally the flies are fished quite shallow.

Good wet fly fishing synopsis deleted. As I’ve become more and more disgruntled with using weight, I’ve found myself fishing wet flies, usually soft hackles, more often. My favorite technique, mainly because it is so fun, is one I use in pocket water or rapids. I generally use a cast of two flies.  Sometimes I use two wets, but more often I use a fairly large, bushy dry caddis with a smaller, soft hackle on a dropper of about two feet. I tend to use this technique in the heat of the day or during other times when there’s little surface activity. The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream. This technique results in many missed strikes because of the moving fly. It will also results in many bulges, refusals, flashes etc. For every fish hooked, there will be about half a dozen fish that will move toward the flies and show you their lies. On these fish, I general cover the area surrounding the place where the fish showed with a series of dead drifts.  About half the time, I’ll hook the fish. Most of them will take the wet. The ability of this technique to bring fish up to the surface during periods of no surface activity and the viciousness of the strikes, makes this technique alot of fun. On my home water, there is a sizable Brown that sits in some shallow pocket water. I’ve moved it a number of times with this technique and hooked once but never landed it. I’ve been unable to interest this fish in any "normally" presented fly. Maybe next year. Willi

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Wets are a gentle, peaceful, traditional way of fishing and I often resort to it whenever I’m just out fishing to relax.  [snip] Most

strikes on the swing are felt rather than seen so intense watching isn’t needed as much.  Tradironal wets, IMHO are the most attractive of trout flys and I enjoy tying them more than any other kind.  If you haven’t tried wet flies before, tie up a bunch and get swinging.

I had never even considered fishing a wet fly until I met up with Joel Axelrad in Wisconsin a couple of years ago, I caught a couple of fish but Joel was killing them in almost every pool fishing a traditional wet fly. I used his technique a later on the Manistee during a bright June day where nothing was hatching and caught brookie after brookie. Since then whenever nothing is happening I go to a wet before I go to a nymph. I fish straight accross regardless of the current, mend at least once after the cast and high stick on down and around, almost all of the strikes I have detected have been on the upstream drift. It lacks [snip] the indicator watching of nymphing

Why would a fisherman of your caliber even think of using a bobber on a nymph, the Juan with a size 28 fly maybe, but Ontario? <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

Response:

The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream.

Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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0] : Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an : under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods : fail. …. : Normally I use a long, slow four to six weight rod, a double taper : floating line for good mending, long 10′ to 14′ leaders, fine tippet : 5X and smaller, and no splitshot.  If I want the wet to sink deep, I : use fluorocarbon tippet and a series of upstream mends to get it down. …. : Peter Peter, nice esssay, covers the water well. A couple of comments — I find that even with fairly fussy spring creek trout I can go fairly heavy on tippet–4x, even 3x–and still catch lots of fish with soft hackles on the swing. With this I usually tie the fly into a loop so that the stiffer tippet doesn’t affect its action as much. This lack of tippet shyness is not my original observation. Sylvester Nemes remarks on it in his series of books on soft hackles. Also if I want to get down with a wet fly, I prefer to go to a sink tip rather than put weight on the tippet, and of course use the upstream mends. Nice to be talking about fishing here rather than politics and other distractions. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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[snip] Why would a fisherman of your caliber even think of using a bobber on a nymph, the Juan with a size 28 fly maybe, but Ontario? <g — Wayne Knight

You’d be downgrading that "calibre" part if you ever see me nymph. When dredging, I need all the help I can get. Peter

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Peter Peter, nice esssay, covers the water well. A couple of comments — I find that even with fairly fussy spring creek trout I can go fairly heavy on tippet–4x, even 3x–and still catch lots of fish with soft hackles on the swing. With this I usually tie the fly into a loop so that the stiffer tippet doesn’t affect its action as much. This lack of tippet shyness is not my original observation. Sylvester Nemes remarks on it in his series of books on soft hackles. Also if I want to get down with a wet fly, I prefer to go to a sink tip rather than put weight on the tippet, and of course use the upstream mends. Nice to be talking about fishing here rather than politics and other distractions. Mike

It’s quite true that the tippet size isn’t a big deal on the swing as the fish tend to charge the fly.  However, on the dead drift part of the cast, the fish do get a good look at it.  In clear water fishing to "educated" trout, I downsize my tippet.  With the long, slow rods I use, the odds of a break-off are reduced. Peter

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Question:

FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve

Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus? —                                                       -dnc-

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FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus?

It’s a water bladder.  Basically an extremely tough plastic bag with a tube and a valve that you bite down on to drink the water.  As you can’t tell from my horrible description, they are a pretty cool invention.  They are nearly indestructable, insulated, and can carry a relatively large amount of water conveniently.  I use one (actually a generic equivalent) while fishing, hiking, biking, boarding, etc. Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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Here is my top ten Excluding Rod,Reel and Line 1    Flask of Coffee 2    Cheese Sandwiches 3    Cigars 4    Lighter 5    Bow Net 6    Sportsclip Tool 7    Solarshield Glasses 8    Gink 9    Floating Fly Box (inc flies) 10  Waders

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I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Get an average sized fanny pack or a vest with only a few pockets, and then only take what you can fit in it.  Limited carry capacity is great aid to self-discipline.  Besides, you’ll look real neat and tidy to the daddy-in-law. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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I’ll assume you’re talking about fly fishing in a river/stream and about EQUIPMENT, not supplies. So here’s my list in order of importance: 1)Rod/Reel, 2)Vest, 3)Glasses or flip-focals(for seeing), 4)Waders, 5)Polarized sun glasses, 6)Hat. 7)Fanny Pack. Any other item I consider a supply and should fit into #2 or #7 above.

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Just thought of a take-off on the saying Lee Wulff coined regarding C & R. "Limit what you carry. Don’t carry your limit!" What do you think?

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8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

This has to be the least entrant for the top ten. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing.

man, you’re slippin. you forgot GINK. you know, why go on the river with those lesser quality floatants when you can have the best. thats GINK, the best damn floatant your hard-earned money can buy. here, i’ll spell it out for you, G-I-N-K. i’ll share a little known roff secret with ya pal. the inventor of GINK is a once-in-a-blue-moon poster here at roff. if you ask him nicely, i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle of GINK. waldo the omnipotent flytier and man about stream

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i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle …

I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ? The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

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8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). This has to be the least entrant for the top ten.

Oops, that makes no sense. I meant to write the "least likely entrant." — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt: 1. Polarized shades. 2.  Bill hat with flip down magnifiers. 3.  Fly box with "hatches" in dries and nymphs. 4.  Extra leader and 3 sizes of tippet depending on what kind of fishing. 5.  Nippers. 6.  Rain gear, preferably Goretex. 7.  Wading staff.  (Goes along with the flip down mags – I’m old) and water bottle. 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). 9.  Hemostats. 10.  Landing net. There has to be room also for a can of V-eye-eeeeena Sausages. Of course my list is like going through the express line at the super market — 10 items or less.  And the woman behind me swears under her breath because I have 15.  <G Dave LaCourse

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License.  Nothing worse than haveing to try some place to buy a license earl in the am for some dufuss that forgot to get one the night before. Drying crystals?  Those neat blue and highly absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing. Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt:

snip 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

snip Dave LaCourse

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle … I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ?

        there’s another bet you’d lose, forty.  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

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  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks.

A most generous spammer is still a spammer. Your thing with the rocks is tiresome. Surely a wisecracking wiseacre of your prodigious abilities can do better than to repeat yourself to the point of self parody. — Ken Fortenberry

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1. rod, reel & line (duh..) 2. flybox. 1 wheatley(model) should do if you know the water 3. sunglasses 4. pliers 5. some float & sink stuff 6. leaders & extra tippet material 7. hat 8. net 9. raincoat 10. basic first aid And now it’s time to take my own advice.. Cheers, Herman I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Be sure to have a couple of the Holdzit Tool Saver holsters and a gink holder dangling from your vest.  The Tool Saver will keep your hook file and forcepts rust free and your gink handy.  Check the Holdzit Fishing Products site out at http://www.holdzit.com Sharp Hooks, Pat I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I am a beliver in keeping things simple and light. Here is what I pack: 1.  One fly box with drys and nymphs combined.  If I loose that many flys then I should proceed back to camp and have a beer to forget about the crappy day fishing. 2.  Leader/tippet material. 3.  Fishing hat-  it’s tradition. 4.  First aid kit/ thermal blanket 5.  Rod/reel 6.  Snack for emergency situations. 7.  clippers.

Response:

What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

1) Camera 2) A book 3) Some Flies 4) Rod -n- reel 5) Tippet -n- leader 6) Nailclippers 7) Water Munchies 9) T.P. 10) Polarized sunglasses!!! Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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1. Consolidated fly box 2. polarized sunglasses 3. tippet material 4. various sized split shot 5. rod 6. reel 7. fly floatant 10. waders if you really want to travel light, these are all you need (I didn’t include "vest", because everything fits inside it.).  items 9, and 10 might be: 9. camera 10. strike indicators Pete C

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I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

 Required-rod reel line leader/tippet flies. Extras-spare tippet material, swiss army knife (in belt sheath), spare leaders, camera, net, vest, soap, towel, pliers(needle nosed). Of coarse variations due to water fished and locale are to be considered, for instance in some of the areas I frequent I carry a side arm due to the over abundance of cotton mouths. I probably carry an over abundance of flies unless I’ve been there the day before and conditions haven’t changed. Bear in mind That I fish Florida waters from the bank where snags are a given and fish for bream and bass so there are times when rod/reel selection changes.                                                            John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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I feel I show up a little light, I have desired but have never needed more stuff.  My vest is packed with the following: 1) 4 fly boxes, each holds 90 flys 2) 3 tippet spools 3) # 6 split shot 4) 4 spare tapered leaders varying length and weight 5) Hemostats 6) Nippers, keeps the dentist off my back 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Toilet paper, keeps skid marks to a minimum 9) Gink, keeps George happy 10) Bug net Plus the required stuff wide brim hat, waders, boots, Rod/Reel and a good attitude Al Simpson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

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I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water.

I suggest you just cut down on the number of soon to be father in laws. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

        don’t know that i would take that many items, but i’ll just start listing:         1. small box of flies, about a dozen dries, maybe six or eight nymphs.  patterns would vary, depending upon weather, time of year, stream chosen.         2.  fingernail clippers         3.  couple extra leaders         4.  couple spools of tippet material         5.  gink         6.  hook forcepts, or whatever you call them         7.  strike indicators         8.  lightweight knife         9.  can of tuna and some mustard, plastic utensils         10.  olympus compact 35mm camera         well, i’ll be damned.  there were ten items. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

Don’t hold back Chris, what do you really think?  :-) It’s probably a troll, take it easy, laugh at all the ignorant statements, it’s Friday by joe, time to fish tomorrow.  I think I’ll fish with some of them thar computer designed flies…so I too can catch fish like a pro, I’m still chuckling.  :-) Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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(snipped) <<Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? What is this?  A rehearsal for Loony Tunes.   Dave LaCourse

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on…

…and by all means, help him with technique, if he is struggling. Shoot, I’ll give him a few flies, although I have no clue where to get those computer made ones. Probably have to check on Gerkhes website for those.                                    Tom Littleton

Response:

You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

        by this post, you show yourself to be hopelessly dense.  tim walker has honored your positions at the expense of his cyberpopularity for years, you pig headed twit.  re-read his post, fool. wayno

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie.

Where I fish, it is almost impossible to bring in and unhook a little native brook trout before some dirty-faced, rag-wearing, famine-stricken, third-world youngster sinks a fork into its side.  It’s really starting to piss me off. First, I used pepper spray.  Now, I’m carrying the Combat Commander. Bob Scott

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(snip) I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population.

        no, buster, what you really want is to be "liberal", "different", "confrontational"; and, more than anything else, possesed of a feeling of superiority over the unwashed masses of fishermen. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

        wayno

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  

[snip] This post must be a troll. It’s hard to believe that anyone could be so wrong about so many things.

Response:

I think the operative word here is AMATEUR!  I promise you I could write you a page of anti-fishing nonsense which would make you want to sell your house and send me all your money to save the planet.  A single web site,  a single appeal, a single slant on any environmental problem is sure to incite some individuals to post messages, send donations, and even in some cases take anti-social behavior (tree spiking, etc.) as a mission.  Perhaps this discussion belongs better with Greenpeace, and PETA where a wider audience of people looking for a life will eagerly join in to support.  If you’re looking to talk multi-use management, I am not an AMATEUR.  Send me your donations today Jim, I will save your personal piece of this planet. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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<<[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. Yeah, I too wondered about that.  "Food off a hungry child’s plate?" Dave LaCourse

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Jim Andrews writes <massively uniformed drivel snipped James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

You got that part right, Jim. Amateur to the point of near ignorance, from your writing here. Do you have the slightest clue about fly fishing or conservations efforts of fishermen? I expect this reply to join a veritable flame barrage(especially at this, the cabin-fever time of year).                                 Tom Littleton

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks!

Bingo. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.

Well….once people realize that what you say is true then flyfishing shall return to the subsistence intentions of its roots and our heritage.  This yuppie trend is just noise Jim. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

Yup. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

Damned good questions. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

You have many friends here. Thank you for your time,

And for yours. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

– TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick. If you’re trolling, I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless* Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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you know, just this am as i was reading gg’s post and enjoying my coffee, i thought what we need is a good ole c&k vs c&r debate to liven things up around here. looks like this just may fit the bill. ahhhh, the good ole days. have at it boys. –Wataugan "hopefully, my one and only reply to this thread" Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

–          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

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[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie…

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[deleted] desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

[deleted] You mis-spelled elevate. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

Did you even read the webpage that you posted? or is this just a troll?  The page rightfully places the blame of overfishing on the supertrawlers and sights trouble spots mostly out in the open ocean. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

   #              ##   ###               #    #                 #          #####       #    #                 #   ###               #    #              ## Okay, that solves the mystery, you are trolling…… "…computer-designed flies…possible…to catch fish like the pros…" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Best laugh I’ve had all day, thanks,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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You have many friends here.

Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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Are you naked right now ? OBROFF:  Nude flyfishing is extremely hazardous, please practice it with utmost caution. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

this website says nothing of flyfishing or even sportfishing for that matter.  maybe you should read it.  it’s about the worldwide fishing fleets (commercial you idiot) are devestating fish populations worldwide especially species such as tuna.  i’d think if you were going to post URL’s they ought to support your wacko beliefs.  please show where flyfishing has caused "the devestating effect… on overall fish population statistics."  c’mon, i dare you, you PETA twit.  you are a liar, plain and simple. I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

have you tried to flyfish?  and how do computer generated hooks make newcomers fish as well as seasoned flyfishing veterans?  you again don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

how does flyfishing take food off a hungry child’s plate?  maybe somebodies casting flies in third world countries snagging food off poor childen’s plates.  get over it.  if we eat a fish we catch, we are in fact leaving more food for your poor starving children campaign.  btw, you are probably against medical research using animals, so how dare you try to use children as a weapon against us.  your policies result in many dead children dying because researchers cannot cure diseases.  fuck you. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

maybe you can get a friggin’ brain, you twit.  stop basing natural resource management on emotion, and use facts.  sportfishermen and hunters provide much more money to save and restore animals, fish, and ecosystems than you or your animal rights wacko buddies. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

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I looked at your map on that site, and it would seem to me that the areas that are shaded look lie areas of commercial fishing? I understand your worries, for I have them too. Keep hope in that the yuppie fad with fly fishing will die down and the true naturalists will prevail. I have many generations in my family that were avid field sportsmen, including hunters, but while I don’t condone the killing of animals for sport you must realize that people must be fed, and systems such as aqua culture will not provide enough product to feed the masses, what we need is control of the population and not the animals. Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? Andrew

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You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

except timbo’s allready in your camp, until he realizes that you wackos actually want to ban all fishing, all hunting, and all use of animals in any regard… regardless of whether a fishing releases or keeps his catch or does a little bit of both (that selective harvest thing). james allen andrews (professional idiot, amateur naturalist) wants all fishing to be banned… to hell with all that sportfishermen and the groups they join (TU, FFF, WA Trout, CA Trout, etc.) do to protect and restore fish populations worldwide. he is an enemy to restoring fish populations in the united states and the rest of the world.  he thinks that if we don’t kill a few fish everything will be allright. hey james, the real problems facing our fisheries are habitat destruction and commercial overharvest.  switch to facing those issues and your professional idiot title may disappear, and you might just make some sense. so long wacko, go eat some tofu, chris

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If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

Well, OK, but it seems civil so far.  Has this been a problem around here before?  And if you don’t mind, what’s C&R? If you’re trolling,

An ironic use of terms in this newsgroup!  No, I’m not trolling. I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about.

I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless*

James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

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Jim, I looked at the site you indicated. Where does it say anything about flyfishing? Not much thought in your weenieassed post.  Just because you mean well doesn’t mean you know anything. Show me any study, published anywhere, in any language, by anyone, that says flyfishing is responsible for the imminent extinction of any fish species and I will read it and discuss it with you. Until you can come up with even one lameassed bit of evidence, you are masterbating in public. Im sorry but as you mature you will run into many mean people like me who have limited patience with fools. Unless you are willing to put some learning effort into your interests, you may want to look for a more suitable avocation than "naturtalist" as an outlet for your need to share your ideas with others. Perhaps some areas where opinions are perfered over facts. A few suggestions are religion, politics, corrections, educational policy, folk dancing, Now the other part. If you post more of this crap in a fishing site I care about I will kill every third fish I catch in your name. I catch many fish in a year. You personally will be responsible for their deaths because you pestered me. Get it? Dave Snedeker I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.

SNIPPED REST OF DRIVEL

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Question:

Hi– On my way to Schroon Lake/Schroon River in upstate NY from Erie, PA.  Although I’ve lived there on and off for over 35 years, I am new to flyfishing.  Will trout still be active in the river? Should I head for the dam near Chestertown? Or, is the season finished?  Thanks for any assistance! P.S. Time won’t permit a side trip to the Ausable…although I plan on it in the spring. Regards, Brian

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Hi– On my way to Schroon Lake/Schroon River in upstate NY from Erie, PA. Although I’ve lived there on and off for over 35 years, I am new to flyfishing.  Will trout still be active in the river? Should I head for the dam near Chestertown? Or, is the season finished?  Thanks for any assistance! P.S. Time won’t permit a side trip to the Ausable…although I plan on it in the spring. Regards, Brian

   Although the Schroon is heavily stocked by both the State and Warren County it is a put and take river with virtually no holdover. Come back in the spring after mid may and the water levels will be down to where you can wade the river.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB: thanks for the new (to me ) idea… I had just posted my favorite way (fast  nail knot of a piece of mono, then blood knots) when I read this.  It looks  more like an ‘at home’ method, vs. on stream, I think, but has clear  advantages for ease of going through the guides.  I’m gonna do it on my next  connection. thanks, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Has anyone tried this method: A guy I know claims to do the same (melt w/acetone) and then pushes the outer part back. He then loops the inner part; ties it off with a nail knot, etc. Here is the part I’ve had no luck with: he then claims to push the outer part back over the knot and therefore this should make a pretty neat sleeve. He then coats it with Aquaseal. I can’t seem to push it over the knot!!!

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I’m new to fly fishing. I’ve read the instructions on connecting the leader to the fly line using a nail knot or a Duncan loop(same as uni-knot right?). I had a knotless tapered leader with a 3X tippet. Connecting the stiff butt to the line was harder than I thought. I was able to do it but ended up with a kink in the connection. Is this okay? I’m still learning to cast so I’m not sure if it affects proper casting. I finally just connected 30lb mono, which was easier to work with, to the fly line and spliced the mono to the leader butt with 2 surgeon’s loops. Is this better than a kinked connection. TIA for any info.

Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB

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Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot.

JB: thanks for the new (to me ) idea… I had just posted my favorite way (fast  nail knot of a piece of mono, then blood knots) when I read this.  It looks  more like an ‘at home’ method, vs. on stream, I think, but has clear  advantages for ease of going through the guides.  I’m gonna do it on my next  connection. thanks, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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I’ve been reading this thread since it started, trying to work up the courage to make an embarassing confession. After tying nail knots and loops for many years I’ve reverted to my origional method of tying a simple overhand knot in the end of my line,cinching it down tight, passing the end of the flyline through the loop in my leader and tying another overhand knot.

Jim; The nail-knot was one of the more enigmatic facets of flyfishing for several years: trout are midging?: no problem, hiting emergers and not duns?, not problem, nail-knot?: problem! Lefty showed me a simpler way to tie it without any kind of fancy tubes,and all the nail did was to help add support and to allow the line something *stiff* to wrap around. Borger, though, has, by far, the easiest method to tie nail-knots.  Try this with a rope kit first, though.  All he does is make an over-hand knot with loose wraps, and then twists the line as he tightens it.  The line spirals around itself and makes those great, perfect coils of a nail knot.  Also, he keeps the loops somewhat separated to allow fly line to pinch or squeeze-up through the loops and make a more integral connection. I know probably none of this has helped solve your problems, but maybe it gets you on the right track. Jason Beary.

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Jason, I was hoping someone would come upon Lefty’s method of tying a nail knot….  aka "a fast nail knot’  see also his two books on knots..  I use a large paper  clip, kept in my leader wallet for this purpose.   and have more than once  helped a friend or other on stream in the middle of the water tie a nail knot  onto a fly line.   I prefer to use a piece of heavy mono, the blood knot the  leader to this…. but either will work.   And with heavy fish the nail knot  slides in and out of the tip top and guides without hang ups… at home to  enhance this feature add a bit of nail polish or head cement to round the  edges…. The use of "orvis" loops on the end is ok,  just not as completely satisfactory  as the nail knot system IMHO. There clearly are more than one solution to this… but if folks ever learned  the fast nail knot system, they might not want to do anything else. cheers, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing. I’ve read the instructions on connecting the leader to the fly line using a nail knot or a Duncan loop(same as uni-knot right?). I had a knotless tapered leader with a 3X tippet. Connecting the stiff butt to the line was harder than I thought. I was able to do it but ended up with a kink in the connection. Is this okay? I’m still learning to cast so I’m not sure if it affects proper casting. I finally just connected 30lb mono, which was easier to work with, to the fly line and spliced the mono to the leader butt with 2 surgeon’s loops. Is this better than a kinked connection. TIA for any info. Just melt the last inch or so of the coating of your line with nail polish remover; open the core of the line with a needle; poke the butt end of your leader into the core; and apply some Crazy Glue.  It will never let go.  The only leader knot you need to know is a blood knot. JB

You got that right JB, my Krazy Glue connection has held up now for 3 years on my 6 wt, tussled with some feisty smallmouth and looks as good as ever. I will add to the blood knot, the double surgeon’s loop knot  ’cause I can’t tie a blood knot in the smaller diameter tippets. Frank Church Hi Frank.  I didn’t know how that message would go over with the LL Bean crowd that seems to populate the group.  But, I’ve fished with the Krazy Glue method since my buddy in Florida told me about it three years ago.  He fishes sea trout and tarpon.  I’ve caught several 15 – 25 lb Atlantic salmon with it.   I always "put the wood" to fish, and the glue has never let go. JB

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Quoting what I said …  As you do it over the years, other ideas will make more sense and you will switch, but in general it makes fair sense to trust your own judgment as to whether something is reasonable or not…. Jim Robinson wrote as follows: I’ve been reading this thread since it started, trying to work up the courage to make an embarassing confession. After tying nail knots and loops for many years I’ve reverted to my origional method of tying a simple overhand knot in the end of my line,cinching it down tight, passing the end of the flyline through the loop in my leader and tying another overhand knot. I guess I don’t have to tell you it’s not elegant but it’s held a couple of huge carp, a few nice bass and skads of decent pan fish without a failure….

Jim:         Nice to see that one’s words seem to have a certain validity. I am a devotee of the "using a slip-on loop out of braided stuff" on the end of my flyline, but what you do rings a bell because I got to securing the loop with a bit of flexible goopish cement. Well, one time it was really thick on there and I noticed my casts seemed to go out lots nicer. Figured it was the extra weight right there at the end

Question:

I went camping at Lake Granby.  It rained every day I was there.  It did not rain that long but it did rain long enough to make it miserable.  The flyrod was not working real well for me.  I had no strikes on the fly.  I changed to bait casting.  I used a Mepp’s spinner with salmon eggs and caught five fish.  I am looking forward to returning to Lake Granby next year.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went camping at Lake Granby.  It rained every day I was there.  It did not rain that long but it did rain long enough to make it miserable. The flyrod was not working real well for me.  I had no strikes on the fly.  I changed to bait casting.  I used a Mepp’s spinner with salmon eggs and caught five fish.  I am looking forward to returning to Lake Granby next year.

this area.  Better wishes next time.  Do not move from this site. Mr. G.

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Question:

I am interested in beginnging to use shooting head lines as it seems they would give me a great deal more versatility without having to buy multiple additional spools to hold different types of lines. Can anyone give me a good source for this type of line or is it as I suspect from not seeing them advertised much that I need to build them myself. If this is the case, can you point me in the right direction to learn how to build them? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I am interested in beginnging to use shooting head lines as it seems they would give me a great deal more versatility without having to buy multiple additional spools to hold different types of lines. Can anyone give me a good source for this type of line or is it as I suspect from not seeing them advertised much that I need to build them myself. If this is the case, can you point me in the right direction to learn how to build them? Thanks in advance.

Malcolm, Shooting heads are great for some applications where you want long distance casts to be performed easily. They are less adequate for other applications where you want for instance line control (mending long lines). Meaning shooting heads are mostly used for stillwater and saltwater where distance is essential. To get the most of your outfit, using a stripping basket helps managing the loose line, but takes some time to learn using. I guess you will use it for overhead casting with a single handed rod (shooting heads and two handed rods is something quite different). You can build your shooting heads out of a DT line. If you have, say, a #6-7 rod, the optimum is likely to be about 11 meters shooting head #7. The important thing is to load the rod with the optimum *weight*. It means you will need perhaps more, perhaps less than those 11 meters, depending on the actual weight of the line (there are tolerances in the manufacturing) and the actual rod class. Some people use a higher line class, shortening the head to perhaps 9 meters which gives even longer casts but sacrificing line control even more. Running line: Buy the best running line you can afford (cheap in comparison to WF line). There are 3 basic kind of running lines. -Dacron with a coating similar to floating lines. Actually a level floating line. Nicest to hold. -Braided nylon. Compromise. -Flat monofil. Longer casts, won’t tangle but not so nice to hold. DO NOT use regular monofil! It will tangle. Splice a loop on the end of the runninging line. Fill the reel with as much as you expect to be able to cast. 20 meters running line will do it. 30 meters if you are a very skilled caster. Shooting head: You don’t have to buy the best DT line available, as much of the casting performance is due to the running line properties. To find out the optimum weight for your rod, some testing is needed. 1. Cut the DT into two. Gives you two shooting heads, one spare or as a gift to a friend. 2. Attach the running line and the shooting head temporarily, e.g. with loop connectors. 3. Try the outfit in the backyard or on a lawn. Cut down the shooting head gradually until you get optimum performance. (When casting a shooting head, you don’t really shoot line as with a WF, instead you only have the shooting head and a few inches of shooting line outside the rod tip when letting the line go. 4. When you have found out the optimum weight, splice a loop on the shooting head. 5. Go fishing and check it works OK in practical situations. 6. Use a scale to determine the exact weight of the shooting head, this is useful information when you design your next shooting head (for the same rod). NOTE: Make sure the loops that connect the running line and shooting head run smooth trough the rod guides! The smoothest connection is to sew the lines together, in which case you either need one spool per line or to make the loop connection at the backing. NOTE: To gain distance and be able to turn over larger flies, you may consider shortening the tip of the shooting head. The price is sacrificing presentation, but for windy conditions, this is worth considering. Contact me if you need more info. Good Luck Tord

Response:

I am interested in beginnging to use shooting head lines as it seems they would give me a great deal more versatility without having to buy multiple additional spools to hold different types of lines. Can anyone give me a good source for this type of line or is it as I suspect from not seeing them advertised much that I need to build them myself. If this is the case, can you point me in the right direction to learn how to build them? Thanks in advance.

Scientific Anglers used to ( and likely still do) make a selection of shooting heads that should meet your needs. Buying the heads will be cheaper than making your own. If you are looking for versatility try these trick. Cut the front 10 feet off a WF floating line. Serve a braided mono loop in the end of line. Use 5 to 10 foot sections of sinking line of varying sink rates that match the weight of the main line. Serve loops into the ends of these. Do the same with the floating section removed from the line so you can also switch back to a floating tip. You’ve now got a mutliple tip line that allows quick changes of sink rate. It won’t cast as far as a ST line but you didn’t indcate that was the problem. I’ve been using one of these ‘exchangable’ sink tips lately and am pleased with the casting performance. Some fly shops will set the line up for you and provide a selection of sink tips. Make some enquiries. Ralph H

Response:

I think this guy really did all his home work. Very interesting and accurate info. Thanks for sharing this with all on the group.

….and "thank you" from me, also!  Very helpful info. Wayne — Gallery W http://www.magiccarpet.com/~waynem/G_Over.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip (When casting a shooting head, you don’t really shoot line as with a WF, instead you only have the shooting head and a few inches of shooting line outside the rod tip when letting the line go. <snip It’s interesting how things can go full circle.  I’ve seen advertisements in the non-Fly Fishing world for short, 2-3 feet lengths of "weighted casting line" (read  Shooting Head)  which allow spin fishermen to "cast" flies.  When you think of it, a spool would beat the heck out of a stripping basket for holding "running" line. Just some thoughts. Rick

I guess the "weighted casting line" must have a pretty high density. Must be lead core to have 2-3 feet heavy enough to be cast with a spinning rod… Your suggestion using a spool would imply a pretty large reel, since the shooting head (some 11 meters long) must fit too on the spool. Still, you need to learn to cast a fly line, although this is theoretically feasible with a large capacity spinning reel attached to your fly rod. (I guess you are not thinking about using a casting reel for this purpose…). The point in using a stripping basket is managing 20 meters or more of running line while wading in non-calm water (breaking waves, current) that will drag the line or tangle it. Or, fishing from a boat, to avoid the line tangling in the numerous items that usually are found on deck. Or to prevent the line from getting caught by strong winds… /Tord

Response:

<snip (When casting a shooting head, you don’t really shoot line as with a WF, instead you only have the shooting head and a few inches of shooting line outside the rod tip when letting the line go.

<snip It’s interesting how things can go full circle.  I’ve seen advertisements in the non-Fly Fishing world for short, 2-3 feet lengths of "weighted casting line" (read  Shooting Head)  which allow spin fishermen to "cast" flies.  When you think of it, a spool would beat the heck out of a stripping basket for holding "running" line. Just some thoughts. Rick

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in beginnging to use shooting head lines as it seems they would give me a great deal more versatility without having to buy multiple additional spools to hold different types of lines. Can anyone give me a good source for this type of line or is it as I suspect from not seeing them advertised much that I need to build them myself. If this is the case, can you point me in the right direction to learn how to build them? Thanks in advance. Malcolm, Shooting heads are great for some applications where you want long distance casts to be performed easily. They are less adequate for other applications where you want for instance line control (mending long lines). Meaning shooting heads are mostly used for stillwater and saltwater where distance is essential. To get the most of your outfit, using a stripping basket helps managing the loose line, but takes some time to learn using. I guess you will use it for overhead casting with a single handed rod (shooting heads and two handed rods is something quite different). You can build your shooting heads out of a DT line. If you have, say, a #6-7 rod, the optimum is likely to be about 11 meters shooting head #7. The important thing is to load the rod with the optimum *weight*. It means you will need perhaps more, perhaps less than those 11 meters, depending on the actual weight of the line (there are tolerances in the manufacturing) and the actual rod class. Some people use a higher line class, shortening the head to perhaps 9 meters which gives even longer casts but sacrificing line control even more. Running line: Buy the best running line you can afford (cheap in comparison to WF line). There are 3 basic kind of running lines. -Dacron with a coating similar to floating lines. Actually a level floating line. Nicest to hold. -Braided nylon. Compromise. -Flat monofil. Longer casts, won’t tangle but not so nice to hold. DO NOT use regular monofil! It will tangle. Splice a loop on the end of the runninging line. Fill the reel with as much as you expect to be able to cast. 20 meters running line will do it. 30 meters if you are a very skilled caster. Shooting head: You don’t have to buy the best DT line available, as much of the casting performance is due to the running line properties. To find out the optimum weight for your rod, some testing is needed. 1. Cut the DT into two. Gives you two shooting heads, one spare or as a gift to a friend. 2. Attach the running line and the shooting head temporarily, e.g. with loop connectors. 3. Try the outfit in the backyard or on a lawn. Cut down the shooting head gradually until you get optimum performance. (When casting a shooting head, you don’t really shoot line as with a WF, instead you only have the shooting head and a few inches of shooting line outside the rod tip when letting the line go. 4. When you have found out the optimum weight, splice a loop on the shooting head. 5. Go fishing and check it works OK in practical situations. 6. Use a scale to determine the exact weight of the shooting head, this is useful information when you design your next shooting head (for the same rod). NOTE: Make sure the loops that connect the running line and shooting head run smooth trough the rod guides! The smoothest connection is to sew the lines together, in which case you either need one spool per line or to make the loop connection at the backing. NOTE: To gain distance and be able to turn over larger flies, you may consider shortening the tip of the shooting head. The price is sacrificing presentation, but for windy conditions, this is worth considering. Contact me if you need more info. Good Luck Tord

I think this guy really did all his home work. Very interesting and accurate info. Thanks for sharing this with all on the group. It sounds like you are somewhere in Europe? I agree that shooting heads are great in the right situation, but not all the time. I’m saving this one. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

| PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. | It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old | issues. | | There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, | if your library has copies of that paper.   | | I got the correct publishing town, wrong paper.  Correct reference for a | nice article by David Profumo (presumably the famous David Profumo?) is | the (London) Weekend Telegraph, February 13, 93, Outdoors section, page III. | | Denbigh How do you mean the famous David Profumo? This one is the son of John, the Minister of war who resigned in the great scamndal of 1963, and the author of two novels (the first good the second reportedly very pretentious). He also edited a couple of anthologies of fishing literature, one called "the magic wheel". — Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682 | London, England                 | I’m not paid to have opinions |

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | etc. I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues.

There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  I’ll see if I can still find a reference somehow, and post if I do.  There is a book on the making of the film, but it isn’t helpful on this. I recommend that you see the film – it reinforced my feelings for the book, and didn’t give any inconsistent interpretations.  I read the book again after seeing the film, and still loved the book.  Redford really did very well. Denbigh

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Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. —

The story takes place around Missoula and the film shot around Bozeman. The word around Missoula is that an unnamed taxidermist in the Bitteroot Valley made a large rainbow model to be used in the movie. If this is true, than that slab you’re referring to may have been just that; a slab. Maybe someday we’ll all go to Universal studios and this trout in the water next to the Jaws model! David Prager                                    (W)206-487-5837 Motorola                                        (H)206-485-4397 Mobile Data Division 19807 Northcreek Parkway                

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | etc. I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  I’ll see if I can still find a reference somehow, and post if I do.  There is a book on the making of the film, but it isn’t helpful on this. I recommend that you see the film – it reinforced my feelings for the book, and didn’t give any inconsistent interpretations.  I read the book again after seeing the film, and still loved the book.  Redford really did very well.

Before we start getting too down on Redford I heard that a large portion of the proceeds from the movie went towards a restoration project for a river in Montana.  Anyone that has concern for maintaining our trout streams, and backs it up with cash, is OK in my book. — John Fereira

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  

I’ve heard about these rods elsewhere and actually asked about them here once before.  I’ve seen articles for them in fly fishing magazine so apparently they are for sale to the general public.  Has anyone ever tried one?  Powell is actually reasonably close to me.  If I get a chance, I’m going to try to stop by there manufacturing facility on my next trip to the Tahoe area.  I’ve heard nothing but good about the Powell rods. — John Fereira

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The movie is beautiful and no fish are eaten during the film.  Redford did do a lot of work I think to keep the animal rights people happy.  It is a wonderfully filmed movie, great scenery and alot of fly fishing.  Enjoy.

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… Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods … … apparently they are for sale to the general public …

Shops that carry Powell rods seem to have the bamboo-like versions in stock also.  I last touched one at the HomeWaters Fly Shop in Eugene Oregon. The appearance is impressive, but I didn’t bother to cast it outside.  Seemed a bit heavy (expected), and certainly slower action than a SAGE III (no surprise). BTW – My brother Tim lucked out while working for the Forest Service in Bozeman last year – he was working at the same site where the fishing scenes were filmed.   I forget all the details he mentioned, but I do recall him saying that the actors wore waders underneath their regular clothes. Thomas Gilg

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Before we start getting too down on Redford I heard that a large portion of the proceeds from the movie went towards a restoration project for a river in Montana.

In fact, I think the proceeds were directed toward restoration of the Big Blackfoot River itself, which was the river the Mclean’s considered their "family river" in the story… Fred —         Fred L. Templin

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Practice selective harvest, don’t eat the breeders.

How do you define "breeder?" — -Wayne Trzyna

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Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery.

Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. — -Wayne Trzyna

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. Mark Myers                               | phone : 703 758-2725

Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery. It is unclear to me whether the humane society were there by demand or at Redford’s request. Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  The filming of some of the casts, particularly the one long roll cast across the Gallatin, certainly deserved the Oscar that was won for cinematography. I’m probably biased by my love for the local rivers and scenery that became such an important part of the film, but I highly recommend it, particularly for those who fly fish or for those who wonder why others fly fish. Meanwhile, the Mother’s Day caddis hatch was better this year on the Yellowstone River than I’ve ever seen.  It is intimidating to see a large river with trout rising everywhere.  I had one of the best two dry fly fishing evenings that I have ever had (I once caught the peak of the stone- fly hatch on the Gardner).  Heavy rains have screwed up our rivers for the last couple of weeks, and the Gallatin is expected to flood tonight. The early runoff means that the rivers should be in good shape for the stonefly hatch this year. Denbigh

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Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. -Wayne Trzyna

I think Wayne has  a good point and I think you only need to look as far back as the 80’s to see the damage done by greed and yuppies.   We have seen the damage from overdevelopment and marketing of our natural resources and yet the developers keep on coming to the "new" sites.  They will infiltrate your vast meadows and peaceful land because people have nowhere else to go.  They are also driven by the fact that you can buy some peaceful property, build on it, save taxes on your vacation home, and sell it for a decent profit in the future.  I think this will continue in the future because it is those people who made the money in the 80’s that can afford such moves to the "wilderness." I think there is little optimism for preserving our natural resources when every lake near a major urban area becomes privatized or rotten with stench from powerboaters and water rats.   Conservation is not pushed and is not observed by the mainstream, I just thank God that there are some out there who are champions for nature.  Without them, we would end up like Brazil. Kevin "lost in Illinois"

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I would have to agree that the movie is one of the better book-to-screen adaptations I have seen. Sure, it’s a bit sloppy on the sentimentality in parts were the book was just poetical, but…well, it’s a pretty good film. I have re-read the book twice since seeing the film with no ill effects. BlackBearBrownBear        San Francisco, California Typesetting, Writing, Design, & Computer Graphics

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Actually, his didn’t happen because of the film; in fact, it’s been going on at least 10 or 15 years.  And I wouldn’t consider some of those millionaire estates as the vacation spots of a simple yuppy (Whatever the heck a yuppy is).  Land prices on the Rt 93 corridor north and south of Missoula are phenomenal compared to those of a huge urban center such as Denver… how do local people afford it?

I can tell you from personal experience that they simply don’t do it. You move away for however long it takes to go back home and start over.                                         an expatriate David Prager                                    (W)206-487-5837 Motorola                                        (H)206-485-4397 Mobile Data Division 19807 Northcreek Parkway                

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PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  

I got the correct publishing town, wrong paper.  Correct reference for a nice article by David Profumo (presumably the famous David Profumo?) is the (London) Weekend Telegraph, February 13, 93, Outdoors section, page III. Denbigh

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                                        …collections of 20 to 40 arce lots, fortified with buck or barbed wire fences, posted, and each with a tinker-toy factory log cabin in the center.

You’ve just seen the future – and it sucks. And does anyone think these people are really concerned with protecting the river and it’s surrounds, or just their petty little chunk? The practice of "fencing out" (vs "fencing in") is rapidly destroying what was once the primary allure of the west- wide open spaces. Even fence haters have been forced to close off their property by litigation paranoia – it’s just too risky from a liability standpoint to let people roam freely over your property. I was asked recently to leave a farm pond I’ve been fishing off an on for over 30 years. The owner was pressured by his insurance carrier into closing it off. We need major reform in the fencing laws. Barbred wire is for keeping cattle in – not for keeping people out.

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Wayne Trzyna writes: Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood.

Actually, his didn’t happen because of the film; in fact, it’s been going on at least 10 or 15 years.  And I wouldn’t consider some of those millionaire estates as the vacation spots of a simple yuppy (Whatever the heck a yuppy is).  Land prices on the Rt 93 corridor north and south of Missoula are phenomenal compared to those of a huge urban center such as Denver… how do local people afford it?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery. Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. -Wayne Trzyna

Sorry, I see it differently.  I believe that the more people who learn to fly fish only increases the pool of people who will join the battle to protect the waters and land through which they flow.  I don’t share your cynicism.  Perhaps I’m just an optimist (a naive cynic).  As for houses, I don’t automatically think it is a bad idea.  Given the pervasive "not in my backyard" mentality, perhaps people will pay attention to what happens to our dwindling frontiers.  If people had vacation homes near Yucca Mtn, do you think that there would be proposals for nuclear storage there?  I doubt it.  I know if I bought a house in Montana (whether it is my primary residence or a vacation home) I sure as hell would pay more attention to planning boards and zoning restrictions that would adversely affect the area near my home.  I would work to protect and improve the quality of the area that made it such a beautiful movie to watch. I am not saying that all development is good and all new fishers are going to protect trout quality water but I think your assertions are a tad on the pessimistic side     + Steve — Steve Hammond                            * ^ // * /     Scientific Computing Division             /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ____

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Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood.

I returned to the Big Hole region of Montana last year and was horrified at the number of new vacation homes built in the last 4 years.  Ditto several other areas in Montana. Trying to reach several creeks I knew of, I ran into various locked gates and "keep out" signs.   Many places I went, collections of 20 to 40 arce lots, fortified with buck or barbed wire fences, posted, and each with a tinker-toy factory log cabin in the center.   In many cases, negotiating the maze of ownership to reach public land was difficult. To make matters worse, some seek to "improve" their holdings.  Though not as bad in Montana, here in Oregon, people aren’t content to have just an immaculate house, but they have to sanitize the surrounding environment, plant lawns that run into the riverside, etc.  The McKenzie and North Santiam Rivers are good examples – float by house after house, looking at massive living room windows, often catching the glare of landowners who feel like you’re invading their world. Thomas Gilg

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"A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on Wednesday May 19. A representative from Blockbuster Video said that it will be available for rental or purchase when the outlets open for business on Wednesday May 19. The purchase price will start at somewhere close to $100.00.  They explained that after 4 to 6 months, the retail purchase price will drop to a standard $29.95 or less.   Frank

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on Wednesday May 19. I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the making of the film. I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography is supposed to be quite beautiful. — /  Academic Computing Services      / VOICE:    (403)220-7937 /  University of Calgary            / MESSAGE:  (403)220-6201 /  Calgary, Alberta CANADA  T2N 1N4 / FAX:      (403)282-9199

It is likely that the sensitivity was not to animal rights types but to fly fisherfolk, many of whom practice C&R, not in deference to animal rights but to resource conservation.   Practice selective harvest, don’t eat the breeders. Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that! Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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| | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. | | — | /  Academic Computing Services      / VOICE:    (403)220-7937 | /  University of Calgary            / MESSAGE:  (403)220-6201 | /  Calgary, Alberta CANADA  T2N 1N4 / FAX:      (403)282-9199 Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. — Mark Myers                               | phone : 703 758-2725 Visix Software Inc.                   | fax   : 703 758 0233 Reston, VA  22091                    |

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Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward

the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a

far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight

out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why

didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do

it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table.

Someone might correct me on this, but I think I heard/read that they used a mechanical trout for the shots where they wanted a moving fish. They must have done a good job if they could deceive us fishermen?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. | Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. —

Mark, I’m pretty sure that if this trout didn’t look alive, it was because it never was.  There was some discussion of the making of this movie in a TU publication I believe.  The AR folks (of which Redfield may be one) didn’t want any live fish in the movie, so there they made a mechanical one ala "Jaws" and faked it.   I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. — Brent J. Danielson                                  Iowa State University                                                       Ames, IA 50011-3221                                                              515-294-5248

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