Question:

Yeah right… somebody’s in my way, so kill him. Land of the free, hey?

Well to be serious for a moment, I do not carry a handgun. I do, however, carry a size 6 weighted wooly bugger and I would feel no remorse whatsoever if I ripped some GDA’s nose off with it. I have not done this to date, but not for lack of trying. You all Europeans can become one with universe, hum mantras and tsk, tsk at the uncivilized North Americans if you wish, but <assume John Wayne accent sometimes a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 Hollow points tend not to pass through and kill an innocent bystander. Especially if you are using subsonic rounds. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I try to hold my temper and sense of proportion in check. But necessary or overkill?

Response:

You have no idea how impressive a size 6/0 pikestreamer can be when adequately stripped.. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm <ad infinitum Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah right… somebody’s in my way, so kill him. Land of the free, hey? Well to be serious for a moment, I do not carry a handgun. I do, however, carry a size 6 weighted wooly bugger and I would feel no remorse whatsoever if I ripped some GDA’s nose off with it. I have not done this to date, but not for lack of trying. You all Europeans can become one with universe, hum mantras and tsk, tsk at the uncivilized North Americans if you wish, but <assume John Wayne accent sometimes a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. — Ken Fortenberry

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

It was not malicious.  I must admit that I prefer to know the correct names of the people with whom I am communicating, and see no particularly good reasons for aliases here normally .  But it is like many things, purely a matter of personal choice. I never for a moment thought it was malicious.  As for the name..I’ve been using it for about 7 years now and use it for everything online. Just what I started with  so it’s a habit.

Using an alias online is an excellent idea that I recommend to everyone. I’m speaking from a truly harrowing personal experience that I’ve related in this newsgroup. I don’t mind most people knowing my real name, which is Stephen Barnard, but I don’t want it continually plastered all over Usenet. So I compromise. I use an alias, but I reveal my name occasionally so at least the regulars know whom they’re talking to. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mike Connor  AKA Upstream Spider

How do we know that your name is really Mike Connor? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

snip their own sense of etiquette. Bad temper, and bad manners can end up in a feedback loop that only makes things worse. And it seems more likely the more of us there are sharing the water. I try to hold my temper and sense of proportion in check. But or overkill?

My math isn’t very good but I come up with: more fishermen * same streams = more fishermen per stream (and most of them pissed off) The only variable I see there is the fishermen. They must change in either attitude or numbers. Nothing else will. Please advise where, when & if you plan to thin the standing crop of anglers. Thanks Kiyu

Response:

My math isn’t very good but I come up with: more fishermen * same streams = more fishermen per stream (and most of them pissed off) Kiyu

You’re right, it isn’t.  That should be Fisherman / streams = fishermen per stream Kevin  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip their own sense of etiquette. Bad temper, and bad manners can end up in a feedback loop that only makes things worse. And it seems more likely the more of us there are sharing the water. I try to hold my temper and sense of proportion in check. But or overkill? My math isn’t very good but I come up with: more fishermen * same streams = more fishermen per stream (and most of them pissed off) The only variable I see there is the fishermen. They must change in either attitude or numbers. Nothing else will. Please advise where, when & if you plan to thin the standing crop of anglers.

The situation is actually somewhat more complicated than what you describe.  In nearly fifty years on this planet I have met thousands of divorced persons, male and female.  Surprisingly, and in apparent defiance of immutable natural laws, in each case I have met the aggrieved party; NEVER the asshole.  The same sort of peculiarity marks my contacts with fishermen.  I never meet (in a social setting) the ill bred yuppie prick or the inbred bubba dipshit; only the well mannered and considerate gentlemen.  Anyone who doubts the possibility of something like this occurring need only read these pages for a few weeks.  All any of us asks is that we be allowed unlimited time in our favorite fishing spots unencumbered by the presence of any other human being within 12,000 miles or so.  What could be more reasonable and selfless?  Now, since we are ALL entirely void of the deplorable characteristics displayed by the lummoxen of whom we complain, it stands to reason that fishing assholes, like divorced assholes, are the residents of a parallel universe who somehow manage to cross over at odd intervals just to wreak havoc on our own blameless lives.  And since we have no reason to believe that the laws of nature behave differently in parallel universes it follows that simply shooting the bastards will never solve the problem because there are in all likelihood just as many of them as there are of us and from what I here they breed like rats anyway.  As well attack the tides with wooden lance! Wolfgang Oh WHY can’t everyone just be more like me?!

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snip one brookie but it was loads of fun on that lovely little rod.  Definitely a keeper.

I wouldn’t sell your stock in Sage just yet. I haven’t tossed a line with an RPL+ but from what I have read here they are nice rods and it is good to switch back and forth from time to time to appreciate what each rod can do for your fishing as your fishing & casting style will change over time. On another note and to revisit the GD I just will never get used to dealing with such incredibly inconsiderate, self consumed jerks.

As our streams become more crowded we will encounter and endure more "self consumed jerks" ….. and beginners who get mistaken for them. Sure streamside courtesy needs to be understood by all but I would doubt that hostile displays do much more than make the other angler think the messenger is a jerk.<G Beginners are usually (if they attended a class) taught in flocks and their early streamside habits often reflect this. Time & observation usually cures their crowding tendencies. A lot of seemingly inconsiderate behavior by experienced fishermen is because different streams develop their own codes of behavior and this gets carried over from stream to stream. I can almost guarantee that someone who regularly fishes a no-holds-barred, fight-for-your-space stream will seem to be a real jerk on a stream that has plenty of angling space and a different stream culture until he gets in sync with his surroundings. I have been on both ends of this. Most people don’t want to interfere with another’s fishing. If I feel someone has encroached upon what I deem to be my fishing space and I want to make a statement about it I quickly reel in without a word & leave for another spot. It is an obvious gesture, is very clear and often gets an apology (unless the person actually is a jerk in which case he will probably not understand any gesture except the single fingered one – and that could get dangerous for all parites). As well, I have sought out anglers to apologize to who have responded similarly to my own chowderheaded but inadvertent encroachments. Works for me – may not work for you. Kiyu

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah right… somebody’s in my way, so kill him. Land of the free, hey? Herman Ah, well, there is something to be said about etiquette. … Within 5 minutes, here he is, right in front of me. So I move downstream. This little game goes on for the next hour.  … Well, nobody owns the stream, we must learn to cope with whomever else shares it with us. Phooey, this is why god invented handguns. — Ken Fortenberry — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

sharing at all.  One doesn’t share reverie or tranquility.  It is a selfish thing we all need.  Some people need to  get away from even looking or seeing another human being.  Fly fishing is one place where that is possible.  Disturbing a man’s reverie is about the biggest sin anyone can do to another fly fisherman.  Reverie is so precious to some that to disturb it is to replace it with rage, which is reverie’s opposite.   Normally, there are other humans about fishing but it then comes down to a zone of several hundred yards or just a hundred yards but no less than that. It can mean, don’t dog my trail and don’t follow me around. Fly fishing is more a state of mind as anything else.  It doesnot need to be catching anything at all.  It can just be a place not to be shared or seen by others.  It can be just the knowledge that someone walks well around and away who is smart enough not to even say "hello."  One doesn’t go fly fishing to hear ‘hello’ from others, believe it or not.  All this sounds cruel, but ’some individuals’ need a piece of heaven on earth that is undisturbed.  This is a feature in the outdoors that is becoming rarer as each year goes by. As Mel Levin said one time, "Don’t say hello to that guy!  Before you know it, you’ll be exchanging flies, business cards and when you get home you will either get a telephone call or a love letter!  NEVER, say hello astream!" Finally, there is that burning question we all get, or at least the ones that are catching trout.  Suddenly!  From behind comes this rude invasion of privacy.  "What fly are you using?" I always answer, "The one found in "Matching the Hatch!"  Why do you ask? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote…  … Well, nobody owns the stream, we must learn to cope with whomever else shares it with us. Phooey, this is why god invented handguns.

Ok, I’m relatively new to the sport of fly fishing. I mean, I’ve fished about 100 days in the last year, but almost always by myself on a private pond. So although I try to be a good sport and show etiquette, I can envision that somebody might infringe on someone else out of naivete rather than ill-will. I hope that if I were to–out of a lack of knowledge–infringe on what someone else considered to be their fishing "space" that the other party would be willing correct me politely and only shoot if I did it a second time. I’m assuming as well that we’re talking about infringement by strangers and not necessarily situations where you’re fishing with someone you know, right? –Steve (so call me an idiot, at least I’m trying to learn)

Response:

Last year, I was fishing Mt. Vernon creek, a small popular spot not too far from Madison, WI. My buddy and I were treated to a streamside invective (a litany, really) directed by a fellow fisherman at the injustice of having arrived to find the stream full of other fisherman when he had been fishing that water for 20 years. Didn’t get a lot of sympathy from me, as I’ve been fishing it a good 5 years longer. But I *could* understand the frustration he must have felt as he watched the crowds grow over the years. For ourselves, we had already begun to leave work early in order to beat others to the stream. I suspect this guy has learned the same trick, or begun driving further. I wonder if some of the increased inconsiderate behavior we’ve had to bear over the years resulted from bad tempers caused by other, usually thoughtful people who had experienced boorishness just one too many times, and lost their own sense of etiquette. Bad temper, and bad manners can end up in a feedback loop that only makes things worse. And it seems more likely the more of us there are sharing the water. I try to hold my temper and sense of proportion in check. But or overkill?

Response:

Yeah right… somebody’s in my way, so kill him. Land of the free, hey? Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, well, there is something to be said about etiquette. … Within 5 minutes, here he is, right in front of me. So I move downstream. This little game goes on for the next hour.  … Well, nobody owns the stream, we must learn to cope with whomever else shares it with us. Phooey, this is why god invented handguns. — Ken Fortenberry

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Set out this morning in a fine, misty rain eager to fish a new 2 wt. I picked up yesterday afternoon (Orvis, Silver Label 792) to determine if it was a keeper or not.  Suffice is to say, I love the new rod.  I had used a Sage RPL+ in the past and didn’t like it at all…..it was very fast, felt like a darn pool cue.  After 15 minutes or so getting used to casting the full flex action rod it was turning over a size 18 furry black ant beautifully, laying it down on the water as though it had fallen from an overhanging tree limb (actually did manage to snag a tree).  Unfortunately, the weather took a turn for the worse and the light mist turned into a steady rain within the hour.  During that time I managed only one brookie but it was loads of fun on that lovely little rod.  Definitely a keeper. On another note and to revisit the GD Ahole thread…….I had been on the stream for about 30 minutes and was working my way upstream when this jerk comes tromping into the water about 20 yards upstream from me and begins dead drifting some sort of wet fly downstream in my direction all the while chatting with his buddy who was sitting up on the bank, obviously perturbed that I had the nerve to get there before them!  Good thing I didn’t have a gun, I may have just been pissed enough to use it . Anyway, I fished (more like just spent the time false casting the new 2 wt as close to him as I could) a little while longer and since the weather wasn’t great I just tromped and splashed as loudly and clumsily as I could upstream, right past him  and exited about 30 yards past the two interlopers. I just will never get used to dealing with such incredibly inconsiderate, self consumed jerks.  My 4 year old son has the brains and common sense consideration to know better than to do what they did.  When I was leaving I noticed their truck had out of state tags…I guess they figured since they traveled to get there they weren’t going to let anything stop them from wetting a line. Natty

Response:

My 4 year old son has the brains and common sense consideration to know better than to do what they did.

Well that’s probably because your son has a better father than those 2 guys. Don’t get angry with them – feel sorry for them. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Two wrongs don

Question:

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  

This is one time where a thicker or stiffer tippet would be better. Willi

Response:

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  It seems to be that even though you’ve increased your tippet strength, you still have to match the tippet to the size fly you are casting.  In essence you still need to match DIAMETER with you fly size.  I’ve seen it alot where people insist on matching the BREAKING STRENGTH to the fly size which results in the aforementioned twisting.

Really?  That’s nutty.  Absolutely – diameter (translating into a certain stiffness and/or a certain mass of line) is what matters because that’s what determines how the fly will be cast and presented. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  It seems to be that even though you’ve increased your tippet strength, you still have to match the tippet to the size fly you are casting.  In essence you still need to match DIAMETER with you fly size.  I’ve seen it alot where people insist on matching the BREAKING STRENGTH to the fly size which results in the aforementioned twisting. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

Response:

Small diameter is not always desirable.

Why not?  By "small diameter", what we really mean is "small diameter relative to its strength".  So if you want a bigger diameter, you could still use "small diameter for its strength", and then a bigger diameter in that brand, and you’ll have the diameter you want but stronger than the other brand. In my experience, Maxima tippet consistently runs about one mil larger than marked.

More like .002 in my experience! Nevertheless, it is an excellent tippet material because it handles abuse much better than some with better specs.

Orvis Super Strong is damn strong, though.  Or damn thin, depending on how you look at it eh? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

If it is stiffer it might interfere with fly presentation. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

Hello,    As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets?

There is a lot of development of monofilament going on with things like copolymers etc. The main effect is that of getting more breaking strength for the same diameter. In addition, the stiffness and abrasion reisitance and knot strength may be affected. Nevertheless, there is no law to prevent you from using any material you want. Small diameter is not always desirable. In my experience, Maxima tippet tconsistently runs about one mil larger than marked. Even so, the strength for a given marked diameter runs less than on other tippet such as Dai-Riki. Nevertheless, it is an excellent tippet material because it handles abuse much better than some with better specs. Bill

Response:

Leader and tippet material is just the same as ordinary Nylon monofilament fishing line.  Some prefer certain types of Nylon, "soft or hard" for instance which makes the leader/tippet, "stiff or limp".    Basically any fishing line will do however. Many people buy spools of the line they like and make up their own leaders and tippets from it.    If you are just starting out, I would recommend buying knotless tapered leaders from your local tackle shop, and a couple of spools of tippet material ( ordinary line ) in the diameters you require. You can of course learn to tie up your own leaders immediately, it is not hard to do. Have a look at   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2/ and   http://globalflyfisher.com Both of these sites have good info on  leaders . TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

   As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets?

You can use it.  It should just be a good match with the end of the leader you’re using and match your fly.  The stiffnes of the line is also a factor. The only problem is that the diameter listed might not be correct.  Even with "official" tippet material where the diameter is usually more important than the breaking strength, it is often off.  But probably not so much that it will make a huge difference.  .010 is also called 1X, which is a bit on the heavy side for a lot of trout flies – I was wondering what fly you’re using. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Bonjour, You can use regular fishing line of the correct diameter. The most important in leader and tippet is to tye good knots as a bad knot will brake really easily. The most important in Nylon is to avoid using an too old one. Then remember that from a "regular" fishing line to another one you have differences in coating and other chemical treatements wich make a Nylon softer or not from another one. You have to know what you are searching for, considering lenght of your tippet, size of the fly, wet or dry… Philippe Pacific Angling on Line http://fishing.ifrance.com * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent I no expert, but I don’t see any reason not to use it. Hell, if you’ve got a big spool of it, I’d say that’s a really good reason to use it. Welcome to the sport and as a newcomer, stick around this group. There’s info here amongst the BS.

I’ve started making my own leaders this year.  In doing so I have looked at different companies for my leader material.  I have found the diameter and strength not the same with each company.  I’ve then found that most tippet material, though the same diameter as regular monofilament, is much stronger.  With this in mind, I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use regular monofilament as long as you understand that it might not be as strong as tippet material for the same diameter. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Hello,     As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent

I no expert, but I don’t see any reason not to use it. Hell, if you’ve got a big spool of it, I’d say that’s a really good reason to use it. Welcome to the sport and as a newcomer, stick around this group. There’s info here amongst the BS.

Response:

Hello,     As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent

Response:

Question:

: Stephen, : Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria : way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I : drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. : How far from there do you fish? Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried … King Parrot produced my second trout I used to get there regularly, but the Breakaway is a lot further upstream on the Goulburn, and this is where I spend most of my time up that way now.   By Seymour, the Goulburn becomes a bit too cloudy for fly-fishing but its still good at the King Parrot … and even if not the Parrot is/was a lot of fun. IMO Better fishing is to be had in the Kiewa, King, Ovens Rivers … but its a little far – even for a weekend. BTW: I look forward to seeing more about your Sunday mornings Steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

SNIPPED Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried …

I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). Damn good fishing weather ! JK

Response:

: I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen : (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). : Damn good fishing weather ! *laugh* Pretty standard summer fair steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.

Oh yes!  I know that feeling. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory.

Having shoveled snow once again this morning, yours was a welcome story. Mu, in the northern hemisphere.

Response:

Stephen, Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. How far from there do you fish? Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders. The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say. The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close. We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders.   The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say.   The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close.   We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him.   I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Question:

Daytripper writes: Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids… …showing you did not follow the thread…. Tim wondered about the fate of the Lake Trout(salmonids last I checked) amongst the 30 or so fish reported released.

Actually, I think I followed that thread just fine, thank you. But as long as your digging for worms: your response above shows you’re the one that is reading-impaired: – Jim claimed he caught and released around 30 lakers and walleye. – TBone claimed "With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom." (fwiw, clearly TBone’s unsubstantiable claim pertains to Walleye – not lakers, but I’ll let your error slide). – You chimed in with: " Well, Tim, if one uses the [blah blah blah], we can assume a 70% mortality. That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30" If you’re still missing your mistake: note that Jim’s 30 fish was a MIX of lakers AND walleye. Thus "21 deceased salmonids out of 30" is another example of your comprehension deficits. Respectfully, /daytripper

Response:

Nit2: I have caught many large pike and in my experience they are among the most fragile fish I have ever caught. They have absolutely no stamina, and once beaten, readily go belly up. It takes great effort to revive them, and I have found that they need the most careful handling of any species I have wanted to release.

Exactly my experience. The toothy things have one and only one good run in them and then display all the fighting power and fishing fun of a water soaked log. I caught a 52" pike on a 5wt while fishing for smallmouth bass from a canoe. Damn thing took me into the backing but by the time I hauled his carcass up to the boat he was 99% dead. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Jim writes:Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush) are members of the Char family.

…yes, and as such, like brook trout, are considered salmonids. However, my basic point is not semantics. I wanted to actually point out a study of effects upon released fish. The study dealt with salmonids, but I have a feeling that the hypoxia effects of removing a fish from water for even minute amounts of time is pretty consistent for most fishes. FWIW, if you use a technique whereby the fish is released without lifting from the water, your survival rate should have been much higher. My position on C&R has always been responsible practice,combining good release technique and restraint from overfishing.                           Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Daytripper feels obliged to add: your response above shows you’re the one that is reading-impaired:

let’s see now…Tim commented re:walleye, wondered about Macks(i.e. Lakers to the western types). Then, I responded about salmonid data(i.e Lakers). Where am I reading impaired? It seems some of you folks need to sling mud just to free your heads from your derrieres….. to wit: If you’re still missing your mistake: note that Jim’s 30 fish was a MIX of lakers AND walleye. Thus "21 deceased salmonids out of 30" is another example of your comprehension deficits.

Since I know nothing of the mix on any given day, I speculated on a pure catch, knowing full well that was not the case….thought I made that clear. finally: Respectfully,

sure, Daytripper, respectfully, my ass!                             T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

J Powlesland replies: Who, exactly, the hell do you think you are questioning J. Cook’s assertion that he fished with Tim? Everytime he is asked to prove the claim, he quietly disappears from the thread.

Yes, and your point is?                                    T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Nit1: Char are in the salmonid family. Lake trout are salmonids.

Thanks, Jon,  I was starting to think they had changed things since I got out of grad school, listening to these other folks jumping on me……                          T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Since I know nothing of the mix on any given day, I speculated on a pure catch, knowing full well that was not the case….thought I made that clear.

No, you clearly did not. But I see you tread water with the best of them ;^) Still respectfully (and I know nothing about your ass) /daytripper

Response:

Daytripper writes: Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids…

…showing you did not follow the thread…. Tim wondered about the fate of the Lake Trout(salmonids last I checked) amongst the 30 or so fish reported released.

Response:

Jim writes: However I see little reason why I should make it easy for AR-loons to search my posts.

correct….look how easily you pull up Tim’s somewhat out-of-context AR post. You consistently fail to include the part of the post where he leads up to "That said". BTW, I have had more than one difference of opinion with Tim, yet have generally learned something from most debates with him. That is because he tends to cite factual data, which while open to interpretations different from his, offer a jumping-off point for intelligent discourse. The alternative, of course, is to limit the discussion to the kind of personal assault crap into which you, Jim, have jumped with both feet. Who, exactly, the hell do you think you are questioning J. Cook’s assertion that he fished with Tim? Geez!                                Tom Littleton

Response:

Jim writes: However I see little reason why I should make it easy for AR-loons to search my posts. correct….look how easily you pull up Tim’s somewhat out-of-context AR post. You consistently fail to include the part of the post where he leads up to "That said".

I promised myself that I’d stay out of this but just can’t quite restrain myself.  As much as I tried to fool myself into believing that Tim didn’t actually mean exactly what he wrote, he’s made his position clear many times since then.  He believes that fish have rights and has stated that he would vote for legislative ballots that would establish those rights. Given the situation with AR-loons and fishermen in Germany it should be blatantly obvious the foolishness that results. Whether or not Tim fishes or how he justifies the morality/immorality of the act of fishing matters not to me.  Any purported fisherman who would support AR activists in their campaign to grant fish rights is quite frankly a danger to the future of fishing and I have to question their motives. You’ve got my $0.02 and now I’m outta here,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? Blackwater Lodge – Ireland’s premier salmon fishing lodge – has a vacancy for a chef from July 9th. 5 days per week – evenings only and Sunday lunch. The job is a permanent position as the restaurant is open in the winter season.   Anyone interested please contact Ian Powell – Proprietor Blackwater Lodge Upper Ballyduff Co. Waterford Ireland     Tel: 058 60235    Fax: 058 60162 Website:  http://www.blackwaterlodge.net

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing?

[snip] But of course… Menu Du Peche Breakfast 7:30 in the rod room Bier d’Ice Jerky a Louis Lunch 12:00 Streamside Bier Dinner 30 minutes after blackness du noir Bier d’Ice Jerky a Louis Pattie Du Weinees (or #11 Hamburger with two franks on top) Chips la Bag Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? [snip] But of course…

What is really needed here is someone with an appreciation of fine food, guest care, and staff management.  I could possibly be persuaded to take over the kitchen with the right inducement.  First, a trial. Two weeks at your lodge, you pay airfare from Washington D.C.  You provide the fly rods and flys for off hours entertainment.  I get to hire the Sous Chef from Sweden.  I just must have a tall blond Scandinavian woman under me.  What do the upstairs maids look like? Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I love salmon fishing and I can cook fishing fanatics anyway you want! "Mr" DB Jones ‘Is a fate worse than death better than dying?’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? Blackwater Lodge – Ireland’s premier salmon fishing lodge – has a vacancy for a chef from July 9th. 5 days per week – evenings only and Sunday lunch. The job is a permanent position as the restaurant is open in the winter season. Anyone interested please contact Ian Powell – Proprietor Blackwater Lodge Upper Ballyduff Co. Waterford Ireland     Tel: 058 60235    Fax: 058 60162 Website:  http://www.blackwaterlodge.net

Response:

Speaking of dinner, last night was trout burritos, thanks to Jon Ernst for the idea.

This sounded so good, I looked it up w/ Deja News to get the recipe.   It was originally posted before I began reading ROFF, so I’m glad you mentioned it again.   Thanks Jon & Jon! Joe F. (There’s no such thing as too much garlic.)

Response:

[deleted] Caught around 30 a day. Released the vast majority. Brought back 3 lakers and 3 walleye though. All about 24 inches in length.

With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom.  What depth were you trolling ?  How about with the Macks ? Wake up, idiot. Timbo doesn’t catch fish, let alone eat them. He is an AR-loon with an anti-fishing agenda

I just love it when you get all pouty !  Are you wearing that Teddy I sent you ? XXXOOO’s — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Tim W writes( in response to Jim Powlesland’s claim of 30 lakers and walleyes a day released): With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom.  What depth were you trolling ?  How about with the Macks ?

Well, Tim, if one uses the anoxia studies of Drs. Tufts and Ferguson, published in 1995 in the Nova Scotia Salmon Assn newsletter, as well as a couple of professional Biology Journals, we can assume a 70% mortality. That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30, unless ‘ol Jim managed to get them out of the boat and back to the water in under 30 seconds, which they cite as the onset point of severe hypoxia in larger salmonids. A letter citing this study appeared in this months Flyfishing Guide(for you Easterners). The letter was a call to enlightened fishing by Andrew Gennaro, a veteran and well-regarded New Jersey angler. The letter in its entirety would be well worth many of the more ardent C&R advocate’s reading.                                 Tom Littleton

Response:

[snip] That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30

Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids…

Response:

Well part of his deluded online support group anyway.<

Hmmm.  Back yard dogs, maybe?  As oppossed to junk yard dogs, that is.  <g

Response:

 How about with the Macks ? What the heck are "Macks"?

It appears that Americans west of the Mississipi refer to lake trout as mackinaws.  Tim’s upset cuz he’s the Mack Daddy. Mu

Response:

Question:

I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

Me too- only the other way around. After having fished with the high-falootin LLs and RPls for a couple of years, a buddy of mine who mfgs IM6 kits gave me two of his 99 dollar wonder rods. Now I wonder why the hell I spent all that loot for the Sage sticks.   Just shows to go ya.

Response:

If you can still find one, a Fenwick Eagle or one of Cabela’s lessor priced rods might be a good by to start with.  Or be a MAN and get an Eagle Claw 4 piece fiberglass Spin/Fly rod for 7 wt. line.  This thing weighs in the pounds, not ounces, and if you use one all day your arm will simply fall off!  This rod will make you appreciate any dedicated graphite fly rod.  I have found that as I acquired better technique, I could truly tell the difference in rods.  As in all hobbies, you will find among fly fishers a certain group of "reverse" snobs who seem to feel that the only way to be a true disciple is to disdain anything top quality as being "too expensive" and "not worth it" and "a Dildofly Deluxe form K-Marts is just as good as a Thomas & Thomas" or "Orvis makes junk". etc.  They use crap and then belittle everything else in order to justify their choice.  I have all kinds of rods and the best feeling and casting rods are also the most expensive, a Sage SP 9′ 6 wt and a R.L. Winston LT 9′ 5 wt.  My other stuff is good but these are the cream of the crop.  Save your money and buy what you want. Don’t let some yo-yo tell you what a dumbass you are for buying quality.  I’m sure this will infuriate some folks but as my ol’ daddy once said, "Po’ folks have Po’ ways." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties, 1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights. 1997 Rokon Trail Breaker 1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

Response:

try HI_TECh tackle at 414/268-9665, very favorably review in FR&R, March 1996, for (can you guess?) 40.00 to 54.99, I have 3 from 4 to 6 wt.  great back up or beginners rods.  Made in Korea

Response:

So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Thanks in advance, Jason Schwartz

Response:

So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod.

Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

Response:

I’ll second that. I started out with a $30.00 rod. It worked just fine for my first year of fly fishing. When I first started out, I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine

Response:

Question:

I’ve only gone fishing a few times in my life and I’m currently in the Pittsburgh area.  Since all I have is a fishing rod, what I need is some starting points.  If anyone knows of fishing sites in the Pittsburgh area along with the appropriate season for fishing there, I would appreciate Thanks.

Response:

I’ve only gone fishing a few times in my life and I’m currently in the Pittsburgh area.  Since all I have is a fishing rod, what I need is some starting points.  If anyone knows of fishing sites in the Pittsburgh area along with the appropriate season for fishing there, I would appreciate Thanks.

Serene Fly-Fishing Adventures fishing all of Pa top waters from Erie tribs to W.B.Delaware for wild trout.  Cent Pa limestone contact Pete for mor info.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only gone fishing a few times in my life and I’m currently in the Pittsburgh area.  Since all I have is a fishing rod, what I need is some starting points.  If anyone knows of fishing sites in the Pittsburgh area along with the appropriate season for fishing there, I would appreciate Thanks. Serene Fly-Fishing Adventures fishing all of Pa top waters from Erie tribs to W.B.Delaware for wild trout.  Cent Pa limestone contact Pete for mor info.

There’s 2 or more books out for streams in PA. Don B. Wishful collector of Gillums and Dickersons – owner of Montague, H-I and Heddons

Response:

Question:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.

The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.

Response:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans        |

Response:

8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.

Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod.  My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights.  They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube.  Flip a coin.  Better yet, cast ‘em both.  Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary

Response:

I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA

Response:

Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington.  I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt.  My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt.  I like my Redington a lot better.  It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy.  I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer.                               Jamie. Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans  |

– Jamie Farrell Interests:   -fly fishing   -fly tying   -camping   -hiking

Response:

Question:

The Madison River is open from Hebgen to Quake Lakem, year around.   It’s closed from Quake to Macatee till the 3rd Saturday in May.  It’s open from Macatee to Ennis Bridge, year around, and it is closed from Ennis Bridge to Ennis Lake from December 1 through the 3rd Saturday in May. Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

Hi Dave, Thanks for the information, it’s right on. I enjoy your posts, keep them up. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Does anyone know if the special closure on the Madison between Lyons and Pallisades is in effect for 1996?

From what I have heard it is open. Take Care,

Response:

   Here’s the deal on the upper Madison.  Quake to Lyons will open on the 3rd Saturday in May and will close at the end of November.  Lyons to Squaw creek is open the same way.  Squaw to Windy Point is permanently closed as a study/control section.  Windy Point to Macatee is closed right now, but it will reopen on the 3rd Saturday in May.  Macatee to Ennis Bridge is open right now, and will remain open year around.  Ennis Bridge to the Ennis Lake is closed(critical goose nesting habitat by the lake), and it will reopen the 3rd Saturday in May.  If you can keep track of all of that, you pass the bar exam! http://www.gomontana.com/Business/Trout/trout.html

Response:

Does anyone know if the special closure on the Madison between Lyons and Pallisades is in effect for 1996?

as far as I know the river is currently closed from quake lake to ennis until the 3rd saturday in may….

Response:

I think its open in the upper stretch because my nephew was fishing around the Raynolds Pass bridge during spring break.

Response:

I think its open in the upper stretch because my nephew was fishing around the Raynolds Pass bridge during spring break.

Probably illegally…as I understand it the rive ris closed from Quake Lake to below Ennis until sometime in May..

Response:

The Madison River is open from Hebgen to Quake Lakem, year around.   It’s closed from Quake to Macatee till the 3rd Saturday in May.  It’s open from Macatee to Ennis Bridge, year around, and it is closed from Ennis Bridge to Ennis Lake from December 1 through the 3rd Saturday in May. Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

Response:

Does anyone know if the special closure on the Madison between Lyons and Pallisades is in effect for 1996?

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Does anyone know if the special closure on the Madison between Lyons and Pallisades is in effect for 1996?

Looks like it will be open.  See http://www.cyberport.net/flyfish/cent_reg.html for regs.  A phone call may be in order. — "If the facts do not conform to the theory, they must be disposed of."      Maier’s Law

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Question:

I pretreat as I tie to avoid the gumming up problem Ralph refers too.  I use any paste floatant on my fingers as an example when spinning fur on thread to dub a body, or run a dry fly hackle thru thumb and forefinger after having dipped thumb in floatant. Works better for me than soaking in liqids(water seal, scotchguard or whatever)                        Mike in PDX               "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                           Tom McGuane

Hi Michael-    Cool idea. I’ll give it a try. Thanks!    -Ralph —

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Can anyone, particularly those of you who tie large quantities of flies, tell me what I can use to coat my dry flies.  I have tied several hundred dry flies this winter and want to apply that initial coat.  I know I can buy dry fly silicone mucilin at my fly shop, but I would like more than just a small bottle.  I have been told that Thompsons Water Seal can be used, as well as the silicon spray used to water treat clothes.  Is Thompson ok to use?  What else is out there? What do you mass tyier use?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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I soak my dry flies in liquid silicone. It’s avialable from large automotive supply houses, etc. It’s less expensive than the stuff from the fly shop. Good luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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   I used to pretreat my flies but finally made the decision to stop. Silicone products leave a tackiness on the flies. This tackiness gets transferred to the fly box. Once a fly is used, algae and other bits of grime adhere to it and get carried into the flybox. In the coarse of a season this grime builds up and pretty soon the whole box has a sticky dirt coating its interior walls and the flies float worse than they would if they hadn’t been treated in the first place.    Many excellent anglers *do* pretreat their patterns, I found it wasn’t worth it to me.    Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

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Question:

I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291

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Whether something is worth the cost is pretty subjective.  I bought a float tube for about $150 a couple of years ago.  It works just fine.   I’ve never been tempted by U-boats, kick boats, pontoon boats or whatever "this year’s greatest invention of the century" the manufacturers can think of.

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I stepped up to a pontoon boat (the Leigh) after wearing float tubes since the 70s.  I don’t plan to wear a float tube again.  Except for the weight, there’s no comparison in ease,etc.  Also on price.  The basic boat I have runs $325 — not much more than some tubes.  ’Course you can run that up considerably with oars and accessories.  I got the oars but seldom use them on stillwater unless I expect considerable wind. Dick Hubbard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost? I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291 Hi I have fished with boats, they both have their advantages.U-BOATS are great for backbacking and small lakes.Were a kick boat is great with oars on large lakes but costs double the price of a u-boat

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Can’t beat the price and portability of a U-boat for small lakes. If going to fish large windy lakes or reservoirs-get a pontoon boat.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost? I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291 Hi I have fished with boats, they both have their advantages.U-BOATS are great for

backbacking and small lakes.Were a kick boat is great with oars on la I have a tube, a U-boat, and a pontoon boat.  After using the U-boat and pontoon, I think the tube is very awkward and can be dangerous in some situations.  The additional price for the U shape is absolutly worth the additinoal price.  Do not get a regular tube! The difference between a U-boat and a pontoon boat is less imporant, but significant.  The pontoon sits you up higher so you can cast farther and see more fish.  The pontoon is easier to manouver, except in a side-wind.  The pontoon is more stable and more comfortable, and many can accomodate a rowing frame. I have a Caddis tube, a Creek Company U-Boat, and a Super Cat pontoon boat. Tight lines. -Doug (Olympia WA)

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Bruce, I use a SuperCat 60 produced in the Seattle area after having used a float tube for several years.  I love the pontoon boat.  I stay warmer, its easier on my knees, and I have a rowing frame for windy or when-I’m-in-a-hurry conditions.  The only drawback I’ve seen other than slightly increased weight for packing in somewhere is the cost.  If you can afford it, I’d go pontoon boat.  If not, tubes are wonderful anyway.

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Hello, Due to a nice gift certificate I now can comment on two low-end pontoon boats. I have a JW Outfitters Osprey ($300 two years ago) and a new Bucks Bag Colt ($200 now). I highly recommend either the Uboat design or pontoon boats, simply because of the ease of entry/exit.  I consider it a matter both of convenience and Valuable Fishing Time.  It matters because we always seem to wait too long before heading for shore for those necessary short breaks; at these times every second counts (removing smells from waders was another thread). I have been using the JW Osprey for two full seasons and really like it. I have only used the Bucks Colt once but have a few comments on both.  I think both are excellent fishing platforms and well worth the price if you can afford them. The Osprey is bigger and higher, a true pontoon boat as only your legs touch the water.  The Bucks Colt is shorter, stubbier and lower; functionally not much different than a Uboat. The JW Osprey (their lowest cost model) seat is well above the water; it is feasible to go without waders in warm weather, though your butt will get wet from splash.  With the seat out of the water it is possible to go much faster because of less water resistance.  For the same reason it is blown around by the wind more.  It is also more difficult to kick without surface disturbance, which can be very important in the shallows. The seat on the JW is of mesh supported by an aluminum tube framework. Your thighs rest on the forward crosstube and this is uncomfortable at first; I got sore the first few times but have built up muscles there. You have to keep the straps very tight to keep the seat from sagging. Cramps and soreness are pretty common complaints from beginners with any float tube until you get the right muscles developed. Over about 80 – 100 days of use, the seat supports are wearing out and I have had to reinforce the seatback.  The seat doesn’t offer great back support. New models seem to have a more rugged seat but I’m not sure how well it supports. To really enjoy the Osprey it is important to really blow up the tubes and pull the straps tight. The JW Osprey can be taken down completely to the aluminum tube pieces, the seat web and the pontoons, so it can be more compact and individual pieces can be stashed wherever they fit so it is pretty packable in a duffle or suitcase. To assemble it from this stage takes about fifteen minutes including blowing it up. The Bucks has a molded plastic seat that is comfortable for me.  You sit just below the water level so you push a little surface when you paddle, so it’s top speed is more like a Vboat or Uboat. You’d be wet from the waist down without waders.  The rigid seat makes it less compact but it folds into about a 2′ square. It has more support in the lower back area and is very comfortable, even for a beginner, as long as your butt fits the molded seat. The Bucks has hypalon or some covering on the underside of the pontoon tubes, the JW outfitters shows a little abrasion wear on the nylon fabric (more expensive models of JW have hypalon coverings). The Bucks has more pocket space, though stuff in the big pocket in the seat gets wet. It can fold up compact with the tubes together after inflating and with add-on strappsd can be packed.  Both are of similar weight – around 10-15 lbs. The same straps can be used to carry the JW, but it is still about five feet wide  (JW has a "backpacker" model better for this). The only nuisance I found with the Bucks Colt was a lack of velcro tiedowns to secure the rod while changing flies, smoking etc.  I can easily add some.  And no stable deck on which to rest a beer – I set it in a pocket and the zipper holds it. If budget is your main concern, get any float tube and get started as it is an enjoyable way to fish, but if you can afford to get a pontoon boat. Mark Vinsel couch potato no, floating tuber yes Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

I have had a kick boat called a Waterwagon for about 15 years, and consider it ideal for flyfishing in lakes and ponds.  It is higher off the water than a float tube, and although I haven’t used any of the inflatable pontoon style kick boats, this seems like a superior design because of its rigidity, portability, and so on.  I don’t know if the WaterWagon company is still in business, but there are similar styles out there.  One was shown in a photo in this year’s magazine, FFing for Bass and Panfish. The waterwagon is a flat styrofoam "boat" about, 3×5′ and 6" thick, shaped like this:                           —        –                                            |  |      |  |                                            |  |      |  |        It is reinforced with aluminum pipe |    —–   | and the pipe reinforcing     is exposed in |      x     | front at the open end of the "U".  You sit |            | at the "x" with your flippered feet hanging       |            | in the water from about mid-shin  down.  Since only your|            | feet are in don’t wear waders in water down to about 55.  It weighs about 20 lbs., and is easy to carry over your shoulder, leaving the other hand free for rod and flippers.  It easily carries a small cooler, a second rod, etc., fits in the back of a pick up or is easy to car-top.      It is highly maneuverable, leaves both hands free to handle line and rod, keeps you up high out of the water so drooping backcasts are not a problem, and has nothing to catch your loose line on.  With good fins it is reasonably fast (a slow walking speed), and it is very stable.  I commonly cross a 300 yard arm of a local lake on it, and in an afternoon will often fish about a mile of shoreline, cross over and fish a mile or so back.      Any bass over about 3 lbs. will tow you around a bit.  Overall, I think it’s the best of all possible boats for lake and pond fishing!  It’s better that a bass boat with a trolling motor, because it leaves your hands completely free and still doesn’t put a bunch of stuff on the floor to tangle your line on.  It’s even better that having a partner paddle you in a canoe, because you are in complete control of how far or close to the bank you want to be. Mine cost around $200 10-12 years ago, and I wouldn’t bat hesitate spending 2 or 3 times that amount to replace it, since there is nothing that I know that compares to it for fishing convenience. The only drawbacks are that you move backwards and a right handed FFer will normally be most comfortable moving parallel to a shoreline fishing the left hand bank.  I spent a very frustating 10 minutes going in circles when I started using it, but got accustomed to manuvering it with my feet on the first trip and never thought about it since.   — University of Illinois at Springfield

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: I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for : Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. : I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the : additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with : the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the : cost? I have been using a kick boat for a few years now and I really like it.   They are better in a few ways.  You can go in shallower water.  You get less cold because you are not IN the water as much.  The casting platform is higher off the water so casting is a bit easier. I’d love to have one of the new commercial kick boats, they look REALLY nice! — Bruce Conner

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I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

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