Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something; there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Evil, Karen, eeevill (snicker) — Cliologist, Philanthropologist, Prothonotary Wibbler, Paleoconservative, Surface Warrior Squid

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore.  Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Dear Miss Christina, We are the greebling experts!  You can trust us kitties.  You can’t trust your poor weak hoomin eyes.  Believe me, they can get anywhere. They change shape, and get flat, or long or whatever they need to do to hide from you.  But we can see ‘em, hear ‘em and smell ‘em.  Please don’t take any risks with those horrid greeblings just waiting around to take over the house– or fly down your throat when you’re sleeping! Eeeww!  I get all creepy just thinking about it.  Believe me, I know it’s not yours or my mommy’s faults that you can’t see them. You just have to relax and let us do our jobs.  We’ll take care of everything. Love, Stinky Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Boyfriend is right. We have rug greeblings in the kitchen and the family room.  Sometimes I have to move the entire rug back to get to them. Meowmy will come home and find the kitchen rug upside down and in the dining room, but she doesn’t find greeblings. That’s because I ate them all. Boyfriend is doing the right thing. Samuel R. Thunderpaws The Great Greebling Hunter

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep.

When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

<SNIP Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

OH MY!!!! I’d compleetly foregotten about newspaper greeblings.  But, from the state of the last newspaper I brought in the house & left on the couch when I went to work…. I think the furballs got them all. —

Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Isn’t it funny how cats will always groom themselves nonchalantly whenever they do something stupid, my dogs just used to look embarrassed,but a cat makes sure you ‘know’ he did it on purpose That was a funny story Yowie, Wilson always chased the mop when he was little, it was especially funny when he chased the polish mop, he would skid everywhere.   Jean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings.

Ah now I see!  They’d be under the floorboards in my place though, and anywhere in the house when the gat needs to go the toilet, he does a loud howl and runs around like a maniac then does his business, odd creature!

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the- kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore. Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

L O Nina & Francesca I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Boyfriend, You are the dearest little fellow.  I send you special skritches from across the sea. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  

Is there ever! They belong to the family of under-the-rug greeblings, and Mere has been showing me how lacking Frank and Nikki have been lately in hunting them. It seems that they have let the greeblings multiply enormously, though Nikki does hunt them half-heartedly every now and then. However, Mere is on their case, and is taking care that they (the greeblings) keep on their toes. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are greeblings? Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Yes, and that’s why Nina was making it virtually impossible to put clean sheets on my bed, yesterday. =o) She was having a grand Greebling hunt. Melissa

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

If I ever see one, I’ll let you know.  (Actually, only cats can see these mysterious creatures).   MLB

Response:

What are greeblings?

Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings. — CATherine

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. — Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Response:

Question:

During the height of "hummingbird season" I use 10-15 lbs of sugar a week to make the solution. Can I have your "recipe" please?

I’ve never measured sugar to water, but an approximation would be about 1/2 cup sugar to about 3/4 cup water.  Heat water, stirring, until sugar dissolved, add a drop or so of red food coloring, and cool in fridge.  Makes about a qt. Once the birds start lapping up the solution I make about 3 qts at a time. This solution has about 2 – 2.5x more sugar than the commercial powders, and so hummingbirds have to make the trip to the feeder a little less often (which was the point of revving up the sugar).  I had checked with an ornithologist where I work, who blessed the enriched solution.  It can be made even sweeter with no harm to the birds. Note of caution…..I don’t know if beet sugar is sold in the UK, but thru trial and error I discovered that the birds reject a solution of beet sugar (or did mine anyway); I use only cane sugar now. Mac

Response:

This is when a hawk or other predator approaches and smaller birds band together in a planned attack to drive off the intruder. I have seen hawks dive bombed this way by a bunch of starlings.

<nodding   A few years ago I heard loud, continuous bird screeches in back of the house and went to find out what was happening.  A number of birds were attacking an eagle, dive-bombing it and had driven the eagle to flying about 4 feet above the ground.  In a matter of minutes it  had flown off.  I was happy for the escape of any potential prey but I missed a great opportunity to photograph the scene. My hummingbirds have not arrived as yet here in Pa.

Not all the hummingbirds leave this area during the Winter….since it’s a cold "Northern" winter only a few days a season.  A few birds are back at the feeder; in a few weeks, there’ll be a clan gathering of multiple generations. During the height of "hummingbird season" I use 10-15 lbs of sugar a week to make the solution. Mac

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I think cats are the lords and ladies of the earth.  :-) So do the cats. (Hi, Mac … )

Good morning, Arjay.   Small point of order … Fossey worked with _mountain_ gorillas.

When I read over what I had typed, I thought there was something "off"  (blush, blush).  Thanks. Again, a number of species that form families or troops for survival  also develop within the "family" strong sibling and mother-dtr ties, hunting for one another, caring for one another’s offspring, looking out for orphans, protecting one another. That applies in many species.  Look into the behaviours of many social animals: African elephants may be the most striking example.

Yes. If the wolves’ territoriality were unique to the species Tacon’s conjecture would seem stronger.   Mac

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "DawnoftheForest" wrote … Mcc6050 wrote … Dogs rule Hmmmm….I think cats are the lords and ladies of the earth.  :-) So do the cats. (Hi, Mac … ) Interesting article…some comments: Tacon said modern man’s strong territorialism is not shared by other primates. I don’t think that’s all that accurate.  The work by Goodall and Fossey showed that troops/families of chimps and low-land gorillas are territorial. Their findings were, IIRC, mostly confirmations of things suggested by the earlier work of Konrad Lorenz. Even when developing the concept of "imprinting" Lorenz made some passing comments on the apparent territoriality of geese, and I seem to recall he expanded on those comments in _Das sogenannte B

Question:

They also caught a jurassic trout… here’s the web and mail address – http://www.carlsons.co.uk as i said, the flies are satisfactory, but not the quality ties that you can get from waldo. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s their web-address, those flies catch Upper class fish! — Op "Look, strange women lying around in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not from some  farcical aquatic ceremony.  I mean, if I went around saying I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away. -Dennis the (Bloody) peasant- All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well. Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity? some time ago, i posted about problems with some flies i bought from Carlson’s, a tackle shop in England.  the flies cost 45 cents, and were well worth the price…BUT, they were shipped by regular mail in an envelope.  In the crossing to my mailbox, the flies were damaged because of the packaging – or lack thereof.  i sent a copy of my post to Carlson’s.  soon afterward, the owner of Carlson’s sent me an e-mail apologizing for the problem. a few weeks later, i received replacements in a nice flybox – all in good condition, and with a nice note. heck…maybe you guys have some value after all. <G jeff

Response:

Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity?

Maybe I’m just being cynical, rw, but I wonder if you’re not overestimating the influence of ROFF? Related good service anecdote: I had one of Sci Anglers Mastery Series AST Lines that got worn out in a single season. I found this kind of frustrating since it was an expensive line… but in retrospect I probably could have taken better care of it (it wasn’t stored well and I used a bunch of DEET bug stuff while fishing the line on numerous occasions). I was looking in my local fly shop and the owner suggested rather than buy a new line, I might want to send the old one back to SA. I did. A couple of weeks later I got brand new one, no questions asked.  I’m loyal to both the Shop and SA now after such good support from both. And my line is still in good shape – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….

At work, if someone goofs and worries we might lose a customer, I remind them it’s actually a great opportunity.  You buy from company A and there’s nothing wrong with the product.  You buy from company B, but there’s something wrong with the product.  Company B falls all over themselves trying to make up for it, and goes "beyond the call of duty".  Which company do you buy from next time?  Not an easy one to answer, but lots of people would choose company B. Regards, Jeff

Response:

All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well.

Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Based on the couple experiences with orvis customer service this would be typical. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well. Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Based on the couple experiences with orvis customer service this would be typical.

—– I have NEVER regretted buying anything from Orvis.  Hard to beat their customer service.  Now, if only the phone company was like Orvis… —- Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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I received a call today from an Orvis company representative for the northeast inquiring about the problems I had with their Clearwater breathable waders.  Apparently, the owner of the Orvis shop I frequent called them to voice his displeasure over the matter and he told them about my experience with two brand new pairs leaking.  The rep. informed me of a problem they had with a vendor they had contracted with to produce the waders and how they identified the cause and remedied the situation.  He was very apologetic and assured me the problems were behind them (incidentally, the problems were even more prevelant in their stockingfoot models) For my troubles he is sending me a new pair of waders at no cost which I think is very fair and frankly unexpected since I had received a credit for the ones I returned.  Now I’ve got waders aplenty having just received new Dan Bailey breathables (and love them). All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well. Natty (wishing he had given me a 9′ nine weight for salmon fishing instead  :-)  ) Before you buy.

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What’s their web-address, those flies catch Upper class fish! — Op "Look, strange women lying around in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not from some  farcical aquatic ceremony.  I mean, if I went around saying I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away. -Dennis the (Bloody) peasant-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well. Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity? some time ago, i posted about problems with some flies i bought from Carlson’s, a tackle shop in England.  the flies cost 45 cents, and were well worth the price…BUT, they were shipped by regular mail in an envelope.  In the crossing to my mailbox, the flies were damaged because of the packaging – or lack thereof.  i sent a copy of my post to Carlson’s.  soon afterward, the owner of Carlson’s sent me an e-mail apologizing for the problem. a few weeks later, i received replacements in a nice flybox – all in good condition, and with a nice note. heck…maybe you guys have some value after all. <G jeff

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Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity?

I guess it’s possible RW…. the truth is I never gave that a thought. Given the fact that he called me at my home # AND left a message on my voice mail at the office I seriously doubt it was a ROFF induced action.  He told me that he got my #s from the owner of the Orvis shop who called him about the wader probs.  I wouldn’t for a second doubt the shop owner’s word and have no cause to doubt the reps either. Your point is well taken though…is ROFF really that well known in "the biz"? Maybe in the future I should not mention brand/company names?  I for one would like to know when someone else has had a problem with a product. Natty

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All Companies will have an incident now and then with one product or another but it’s the way they handle it and the extent to which they are willing to go to make amends that set the class acts apart from the rest….and that goes for the guy at the local shop as well. Maybe I’m just being cynical, Hawkeye, but I wonder whether the fact that you discussed this problem on ROFF had anything to do with Orvis’s extreme generousity?

some time ago, i posted about problems with some flies i bought from Carlson’s, a tackle shop in England.  the flies cost 45 cents, and were well worth the price…BUT, they were shipped by regular mail in an envelope.  In the crossing to my mailbox, the flies were damaged because of the packaging – or lack thereof.  i sent a copy of my post to Carlson’s.  soon afterward, the owner of Carlson’s sent me an e-mail apologizing for the problem. a few weeks later, i received replacements in a nice flybox – all in good condition, and with a nice note. heck…maybe you guys have some value after all. <G jeff

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Question:

anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

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I live in orange county and work in San Diego. I have not had much luck surf fly fishing in any so cal waters. Usually it is a matter of access. Most of the good stretches of beach are hard, if not impossible to get to. Any spots where you do have access to are WAY overcrowded by bait fisherman, A large percent looking for a family dinner. I have had great luck renting a skiff from seaforth. You can fish in mission bay, or Coronado island. Get out there with deceivers, let’em sink, then strip, strip, strip, like a mad man. Mackerel, rock fish, I even caught a baby barracuda once Seaforth also has a big boat to rent with GPS and all the goodies, so you can really get out there and hit the kelp beds. It is pricey though. Also there is a great salt fly fishing store in SD. If anyone knows, these guys do… San Diego Fly Shop. 619-283-3445. They have flys, lines, and all the stuff you need. Call them, they know the area. Note : you need a special sticker on your ca fishing license to do the salt thing. Good luck, Marc visit the Fly Fishing Zone at http://www.bookmarkzone.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

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Question:

Going to fish the Upper Kern River (between Kernville and Johnsondale) in California over Thanksgiving.  I have never fished this water before and would appreciate any suggestions regarding fly patterns and fishing locations. Thanks in advance, Kirk

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Kirk, Every Thanksgiving I go over the hill and through the woods to my Grandmother’s house in Lake Isabella.  And I always try to do a little fishing on the Kern while I’m there.  I find it to be pretty tough fishing at that time of year and I have yet to discover what pattern works and what the best place to fish is in the section of the river you’ll be fishing. There’s a fly shop in Kernville where the road crossing the river T’s into north/south route that parallels the river on its eastern side.  You might try dropping in there for info. Generally, I have had better luck by hiking in a couple miles above the Johnsondale bridge and working my way upstream from there.  You might try a dry they call the "Kern Special" in the store I mentioned above.  It’s basically a royal wulff but with a green waist instead of a red one. —                                                       -dnc- KIRK BANNERMAN wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Upper Kern River (between Kernville and Johnsondale) in California over Thanksgiving.  …

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what a co-inky-dink! California FlyFisher (Oct 98) has an article on this stretch of water! Might want to pick up a copy B4U go. Larry #:)#

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Question:

Thanks to all who’ve helped with getting me started in FF. I bought the Renzetti vise today and a starter kit of materials. I appreciate a finely crafted piece of equipment, and the renzetti is ~IT~!! I also had the good fortune to get a few FF books at a garage sale for 10 cents each. I’m on my way, and will probably get a sage starter set for my first rod/reel combo. I got a nice solid maple table and adjustable chair too, earlier this week. You guys are pretty cool, despite my rather rude first post. Tight lines to ya!!

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Pass some of that disposable income our way.                 Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who’ve helped with getting me started in FF. I bought the Renzetti vise today and a starter kit of materials. I appreciate a finely crafted piece of equipment, and the renzetti is ~IT~!! I also had the good fortune to get a few FF books at a garage sale for 10 cents each. I’m on my way, and will probably get a sage starter set for my first rod/reel combo. I got a nice solid maple table and adjustable chair too, earlier this week. You guys are pretty cool, despite my rather rude first post. Tight lines to ya!!

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Well….the table and chair were free, picked from someone’s trash. The legs on the table were all broken. and had to be pegged and epoxied, and the chair needed a rebuild. I have two teenagers. I have ~no~ disposable income. If I didn’t buy the Renzetti, the litttle pirhanas would have smelled the cash and come after me!! Thanks   Pass some of that disposable income our way.

Question:

Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

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"Fly Fishing Through the Midlife Crisis" I agree that it is an excellent read, and I’m not even at mid-life yet…Clint – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

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Question:

Question: while in Victoria, BC, I purchased an antique Wheatly box with about 50 wet flys (mostly Peter Ross and Montreal). Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

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Question: while in Victoria, BC, I purchased an antique Wheatly box with about 50 wet flys (mostly Peter Ross and Montreal). Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

I am still using wet flies (I live in Montana).  My favorite flies are Peter Ross, Grizzly King, Silver March Brown, Soft Hackles etc.  I ususally use them when I can’t see dry flies in late evening and when fish are taking something at subsurface (I use either emerger flies or wet flies in this case).  Wet flies work very well.  Therefore, I always carry dry, nimph, and wet fly boxes in my vest. NK

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Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

I tie and fish traditional winged wets and soft hackles all the time, and they still work on the Oregon coast streams.  –Roger

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 Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

Hi Doug, Fish the traditional wet fly is still one of my favorite fishing methods. The only real change I’ve made over the years is my wet flies are much smaller than they used to be.  In years past my average wet fly was a #8 or #10.  Today they are mostly #14 or #16.  I think they are more deadly today than years past especially when fished over "hard pressed" fish.   These fish have seen everything ten times a day and a wet fly is something different. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Do you fish a wet fly like a nymph? i.e. split shot 6-8" above the fly? I am new to this, have gotten pretty good at tying my own flys, and like to tie many of the wet fly patterns, but honestly don’t know how to fish them. Someone let me know please? DLowe

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Dear DLowe,     The traditional way of fishing wets was to cast across and downstream and let the line and leader swing around in a large, slow arc, take a step downstream, cast again, etc covering as much water as possible.  Flies were unweighted and usually fished two or three at a time.  Twitching the flies as they swung around and/or mending to slow the swing were common additions to the technique.  This method has been declared extinct several times over the last hundred years, first by the dry fly purists of the turn of the century, more recently by nymph specialists.  It still works, it is a very relaxing and pleasant way to fish, and it is a good way for a novice to learn to read water.      I highly recommend the book Wet Flies by Dave Hughes.  –  Roger

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(KilchsGray) writes: Dear DLowe,    The traditional way of fishing wets was to cast across and downstream and let the line and leader swing around in a large, slow arc, take a step downstream, cast again, etc covering as much water as possible.  Flies were unweighted and usually fished two or three at a time.  Twitching the flies as they swung around and/or mending to slow the swing were common additions to the technique.  This method has been declared extinct several times over the last hundred years, first by the dry fly purists of the turn of the century, more recently by nymph specialists.  It still works, it is a very relaxing and pleasant way to fish, and it is a good way for a novice to learn to read water.     I highly recommend the book Wet Flies by Dave Hughes. —  Roger

Ditto on the Dave Hughes book. Dave just did a presentation to our club on wet flies. Don Burns

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Question:

I’m relatively new both to fly fishing and the Seattle area. Would anyone out there have any suggestions on places to fish around here to fish, THAT ARE LEGAL.  I’m from Florida, and I’ve never seen so many closed and restricted areas in my life. Thanks, Bill Adams

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 I’m relatively new both to fly fishing and the Seattle area.  Would anyone out there have any suggestions on places to fish  around here to fish, THAT ARE LEGAL.  I’m from Florida, and  I’ve never seen so many closed and restricted areas in my life.

Get yourself a copy of _Washington_State_Fishing_Guide_by Stan Jones. It came out recently in it’s seventh edition.   Not only does it tell you how to get to every puddle or trickle in the state, it tells you what swims there as well.  As to what’s open when, if the regs don’t state otherwise, the lakes are open year round. The rivers all vary – you’ll need to check each river of interest in the regs.  There are a number of flyfishing only lakes and rivers and even more single barbless hook venues. Have fun!                       – Jewelee

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Question:

I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

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says… I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

I am leaving tomorrow morning (8-15-95) to go to the San Juan for a few days.  I was originally trying for September but to no avail.  The water level should be at between 500-800 cfm and should make for some good fishing.  If you want, I will make a post when I return advising the conditions and where you might want to stay.  I understand there have been some recent changes their lately regarding hotels, restaurants, etc.  I’ll let you know what I find out. Just let me know.  I’ll do my best not to leave some fish that aren’t completely tired (yeah right)!! Tom Cavitt

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I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

Give Gary Willmart a call.  He’s President of Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc. and operates a guiding business on the San Juan River and other rivers and lakes around Pagosa Springs, CO.  His phone is (719) 598-5787 and his address is Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc., 6421 Pulpit Rock Dr., Colorado Springs, CO  80918. Tell him Dave Baker referred you.  He’s good and really enjoys guiding folks. Abe’s Motel and Fly Shop (owned by Abe Chavez and family) is probably the most popular place right on the river.  I’ve stayed there and it’s nice, they are helpful, and the prices are in the right range.  I don’t have their phone number but check dir. asst. in the Farmington, Aztec, Navajo Reservoir areas. You can also find places in Farmington, NM; Durango, CO; Pagosa Springs, CO; Chama, NM; etc.   Check a map. Sept. conditions are usually excellent and there are lots of big fish. In fact, you probably won’t get many under 16".  Weather’s good, too. Air warm, water cold – bring heavy socks for wading (see below). The upper river, in the first mile or so below the dam, is for wading only – no boats.  That’s what we do and where Gary takes clients. River is wide with lots of places to fish.  Lots of people but you can find good places open because there are so many fish around all over. They are hard to get, though, if you don’t know the river and it’s kind of unique.  So get a guide for at least half a day to show you how to begin, what to look for. I’ve never taken a boat trip but below the wade fishing only area, they allow drift boats.  If that is your interest, talk to Tim Chavez (Abe’s son) who operates the Born ‘N Raised guide service with boats. Pay attention to some unique regulations designed to protect the fishery:  catch & release some places, one fish over 20" other places and you gotta quit fishing when you kill one, barbless hooks, no fishing directly downstream of yourself or someone else (often called the San Juan Shuffle because fish will congregate and pick up food in the trail of debris kicked up by someone wading), etc. Have fun!

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I’ve heard that they bite drys a lot better in September, instead of the usual disco midges and San Jan worms that they ususally fish

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