Question:

"Greg Pavlov" wrote  The consolation is that you can then get next  year’s model: it will come with headlights, two  cup holders, and a reverse hydration system.

I assume that’s the women’s version? Bob

Response:

   Well Uncle Wally i guess i will have to have a talk with the big cheese at Simms i thought you was to get the G3"s last month ahead of everyone else.    Well did the rep at least leave the one’s you were prancing around the shop in?                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

   Well Uncle Wally i guess i will have to have a talk with the big cheese at Simms i thought you was to get the G3"s last month ahead of everyone else.

shoot mike, that would be unethical <g    Well did the rep at least leave the one’s you were prancing around the shop in?

i tried…. but it was the only pair he had with him on his sales rounds. besides, they were a bit small fer me. he did leave me with some sage stuff to play with. have ya been down to penns lately? i have a buddy that wants to fish it in the spring and we’re planning on a long weekend in march or april. –wally

Response:

Hi everyone! I was planning on buying a pair of Simms guide weight waders when I’m visiting Canada next month. When I contacted a local shop about the waders, they told me that Simms had a new 2003 model of the guide weight waders coming out (the old model will be called ‘Classic Guide’ from now on). Has anyone seen the new model or heard of them? What are the differences?

No, but I figure the *real* difference is about a year. Op  –seriously– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Jarmo Hurri

Response:

Guyz-N-Flyz No, but I figure the *real* difference is about a year. Not *only* that, but also 100CAD. But I’d still be interested to find out. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Guyz-N-Flyz No, but I figure the *real* difference is about a year. Not *only* that, but also 100CAD. But I’d still be interested to find out. — Jarmo Hurri

Try to PING Uncle Wally at ezflyfish.com.  I be he has a new pair in stock, and would know if the differences are worth the extra cost. Op

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Guyz-N-Flyz Try to PING Uncle Wally at ezflyfish.com.  I be he has a Guyz-N-Flyz new pair in stock, and would know if the differences are Guyz-N-Flyz worth the extra cost. Heck, he’s got it *all* http://www.ezflyfish.com/simmsg3waders.html — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

No, but I figure the *real* difference is about a year. Op  –seriously–

And a lot of dollars   /Roger

Response:

Hi everyone! I was planning on buying a pair of Simms guide weight waders when I’m visiting Canada next month. When I contacted a local shop about the waders, they told me that Simms had a new 2003 model of the guide weight waders coming out (the old model will be called ‘Classic Guide’ from now on). Has anyone seen the new model or heard of them? What are the differences?

hey Jarmo, I’ve seen and tried a pair on about a month ago when the Simms sales rep was in the shop. It has new features and is more breathable according to Simms. I’ve just yesterday loaded the image and Simms press release at my site: http://www.ezflyfish.com/simmsg3waders.html I haven’t field tested a pair yet so I can’t give you any advise concerning it’s functionality etc. but the pair I wore around the store was very comfortable and seemed to be built very well. Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

differences…. a few that I liked…. 1) Built in gravel guards. 2) the hand warmer will be ideal for holding bottled water or other beverages of choice…. easy access ;^) 3) the ass portion is more durable. i slide on my butt down boulders and hills quite a bit when i fish nc streams. i do this for safety because i’m not very stable walking downhill or downstream. 4) the knees are also more durable which is important here also…. low stealthy profile when fishing. 5) the little built-in chest pack will allow minimalist (no vest) fishing. — wally

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Walt differences…. a few that I liked…. Walt 1) Built in gravel guards. Walt 3) the ass portion is more durable. i slide on my butt down Walt    boulders and hills quite a bit when i fish nc streams. i do Walt    this for safety because i’m not very stable walking downhill Walt    or downstream. Walt 4) the knees are also more durable which is important here Walt    also…. low Walt    stealthy profile when fishing. I think these three are pretty important. But… a bit of bad luck. I’m coming over there in December, and the product will be available in January. Sigh… — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

And a lot of dollars  

Indian Joe replies–and for the big dollars they did not include a zippered fly for those us who had too much beer last night or too much coffee this morning. or a back supporting belt with a water bottle holder. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Sound to me like Uncle Wally has some Jarmo. He could proberly hook you up with a set.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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Sound to me like Uncle Wally has some Jarmo. He could proberly hook you up with a set.                    Handyman Mike         Standing in a river waving a stick

nahhh Mike, I won’t be receiving any until they ship them in January to all the dealers. I think I have 15 or so pair due in. –wally

Response:

Greg  The consolation is that you can then get next year’s model: it Greg  will come with headlights, two cup holders, and a reverse Greg  hydration system. I don’t think that reinforced parts in the posterior area and knees qualify in the same class as cup holders. It’s not an imagined need. On the other hand, I do admit that I don’t know how strong these reinforced parts are when compared with the ‘classic’ ones. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

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I think these three are pretty important. But… a bit of bad luck. I’m coming over there in December, and the product will be available in January. Sigh… – The consolation is that you can then get next year’s model: it will come with headlights, two cup holders, and a reverse hydration system.

And tail fins!

Response:

Hi everyone! I was planning on buying a pair of Simms guide weight waders when I’m visiting Canada next month. When I contacted a local shop about the waders, they told me that Simms had a new 2003 model of the guide weight waders coming out (the old model will be called ‘Classic Guide’ from now on). Has anyone seen the new model or heard of them? What are the differences? — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

Response:

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

Response:

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

Response:

Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

Response:

There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

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Question:

Hi. My fihing friends and I have been using car batteries for 15 to 25 pound trolling motors.  They’ll last most of the day if you don’t fight against the wind all day. Will a "deep cycle trolling" battery hold a charge a lot longer during use? How much longer? Is it worth the extra money? I’ve been researching deep cycle batteries and there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on the types and what brands are true deep cycle batteries. I.E. Gold Carts use them too. Can anyone recommned a particular brand or company in general "In their humble opinion"? Thanks. Please email too if possible. Fred the Fisherman.

Response:

Car batteries, die after a few deep discharges and recharges.  You can get a Deep Cycle at Costco or Wal-mart for less than $50.  Will survive longer than the car batter and give you more trolling. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My fihing friends and I have been using car batteries for 15 to 25 pound trolling motors.  They’ll last most of the day if you don’t fight against the wind all day. Will a "deep cycle trolling" battery hold a charge a lot longer during use? How much longer? Is it worth the extra money? I’ve been researching deep cycle batteries and there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on the types and what brands are true deep cycle batteries. I.E. Gold Carts use them too. Can anyone recommned a particular brand or company in general "In their humble opinion"? Thanks. Please email too if possible. Fred the Fisherman.

Response:

Hi Fred, You can buy deep cycle batteries from Sam’s Club, Costco or Wal-Mart for ~$50US. I have bought some Trojan deep cycle batteries for ~$75. I heard that Interstate and Sears Diehards are good. I just bought a Rolls deep cycle for ~$125 Be sure to charge them with an automatic 10 amp charger as soon after you are done fishing as possible. Also try to charge them once a month if they are sitting for long periods of time. It can take 12 hours to fully charge a battery. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.cim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My fihing friends and I have been using car batteries for 15 to 25 pound trolling motors.  They’ll last most of the day if you don’t fight against the wind all day. Will a "deep cycle trolling" battery hold a charge a lot longer during use? How much longer? Is it worth the extra money? I’ve been researching deep cycle batteries and there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on the types and what brands are true deep cycle batteries. I.E. Gold Carts use them too. Can anyone recommned a particular brand or company in general "In their humble opinion"? Thanks. Please email too if possible. Fred the Fisherman.

Response:

Autozone carries marine & trolling motor batteries near me in Ma. I’ll be picking 2 up this week…  My new rt65ap just arrived, gloat….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My fihing friends and I have been using car batteries for 15 to 25 pound trolling motors.  They’ll last most of the day if you don’t fight against the wind all day. Will a "deep cycle trolling" battery hold a charge a lot longer during use? How much longer? Is it worth the extra money? I’ve been researching deep cycle batteries and there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on the types and what brands are true deep cycle batteries. I.E. Gold Carts use them too. Can anyone recommned a particular brand or company in general "In their humble opinion"? Thanks. Please email too if possible. Fred the Fisherman.

Response:

Question:

Great story snipped. I am not quite sure if he is really serious, but it is a nice story anyway. TL MC

My wife understands that when I say that I’m going down to the pond for an hour of fishing after work, to not expect me till after dark.  Then again, when she is sewing on a quilt and she tells me "just one last thread," then I know not to expect her in bed till dawn. The local pond that I fish is near a church.  The carillon rings on the half hour.  I’ve often wondered while fishing if the thing is broken ’cause that damn thing just rang "five minutes ago."  Especially true when the fish are seriously biting.         Frank

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I’m surprised you didn’t know the scientific fact that all areas around fishing ponds are time warps, the amount of warp in direct proportion to the size, number and hunger factor of the fish. If all the above are negative the time line elongates, if positive it shortens. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great story snipped. I am not quite sure if he is really serious, but it is a nice story anyway. TL MC My wife understands that when I say that I’m going down to the pond for an hour of fishing after work, to not expect me till after dark.  Then again, when she is sewing on a quilt and she tells me "just one last thread," then I know not to expect her in bed till dawn. The local pond that I fish is near a church.  The carillon rings on the half hour.  I’ve often wondered while fishing if the thing is broken ’cause that damn thing just rang "five minutes ago."  Especially true when the fish are seriously biting.         Frank

Response:

Angelic poetry snipped.    Thank you again Mike, you continue to touch our souls with a common truth.  Where surfers may have the "Endless Summer," fisherman will always have that "one last cast."        Frank

Response:

Angelic poetry snipped.    Thank you again Mike, you continue to touch our souls with a common truth.  Where surfers may have the "Endless Summer," fisherman will always have that "one last cast."        Frank

There are indeed several casts in any anglers armoury, irrespective of his skill, knowledge or experience,  which have a very special magic. One is the first cast, and then there are also the innumerable "last casts" !:) Four years ago, I visited Denmark with my wife, fairly early in the year. We had a small house almost directly on the beach. These are very cheap indeed in the off season, and we have done this a few times. My wife fishes a little, and indeed possesses all the relevant certificates, ( she often explains to people that she only took the exams so she could understand what the hell  I was jabbering on about more than half the time). On this particular occasion, it was bitter cold and snowing rather heavily. Due to heavy cloud cover, the night started to darken early as well, and I hoped this would bring some fish closer in. After a couple of hours of braving the vicious wind, and viewing the unusual spectacle of heavy surf on the Baltic, my wife decided she would rather pack in, go to the house and read for a while instead. Intimating these sentiments to me was rather difficult, as I was standing in the surf almost up to my chest, quite a way away,  fighting to avoid  being bowled over, and having just hooked my first fish of the day. Unusually again, there were a couple of anglers in the immediate vicinity, ( some idiots will go out in even the most disgusting weather), and as our conversation consisted of screaming at each other over the wind and waves, they were perforce party to the exchange, which went like this; "I

Question:

In the case of overseas contributions there would obviously be some exceptions. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

my two cents worth Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40__yes___ 20 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___yes___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__yes____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap. As a reader of only 4 months standing of this newsgroup (or any newsgroup for that matter) I have enjoyed immeasurably the opportunity to tie so many flies.  I am not a production machine and cannot tie 100+ flies at one sitting (in fact I feel rather pleased if I do about 6 in an hour).  However it has given a focus for my tying and I have really enjoyed the anticipation of receiving the work of so many fellow tiers.  I for one never want to tie another Iron Blue Dun, but if I do I know a. it will take less time than before, b. I will not have to look up the pattern, and c. I’m likely to end up with a  tidier looking fly than before. My Reply to your survey Frank: Q1.    25. See above comment. Also the fewer the numbers, the lower the drop out rate, as people are more likely to meet this commitment. Q2.    21 Days is more than enough. Even for someone who is regularly away, I can usually get to a computer to download messages, and hence sign up for the swap in this time. Q3.    45 Days. To allow postage time from all over the globe. My penny’s worth. Again thanks for the experience. — Alex Bromham

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap.

Thanks for the kind words Alex, you guys need to realize I’m getting more fun out of this than ya’ll are.  Your input on the survey is also appreciated, and I will keep all the replies in mind, then do it how I dang well please. (that’s my dark side coming out) <g At some point in the near future, like after the swap is completed, I will post a "lessons learned" missive for the enlightenment of all concerned. Frank Church

Response:

Hi Frank Decision as to size show be up to swiepmeister. How much work is he willing to do. A short signup time – 7 days is enough. Bigger the swap – the longer is needed. 60 days for 40 flies seems about right! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank: I had to throw my 2 cents in also. Anxiously awaiting in Wyoming Bob | 1. How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* | consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) | 25____ | 30___X__ | 35_____ | 40_____ | more than 40_____ | | 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? | 14__X____ | 21______ | 30______ | | 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to | me? | 30_____ | 45__X____ | 60______ |

Response:

Frank Wrote seeking our opinions on future fly swaps. I would go for 25 fliews to tie and 30 days to tie the flies after a week to sign up. Big Dale

Response:

Although I haven’t yet participated in a ROFF swap yet, I would like to, time dependant.  Here are my answers to the survey: I have no preference as to the number of tyers, but a good "completion time" period seems to be a ratio, rather than a fixed number – around 1.5 days per tyer, with minimums.  If there are, say 30 tyers, 45 days would seem to be about right and if say, 40 tyers, 60 days.  It would seem if international tyers are in the swap, 45 days would also seem about the minimum to allow for arrival, if all the tyers are in one country, 30 days would seem a minimum, even if just 12-18 tyers.  As to the number of sign-up days, I’m not sure why there needs to be a set period other than as proposed by the swapmeister, and so, therefore, I proxy my vote to the swapmeister.

Response:

Based on the replies I have seen so far, and trying to average out the results, it would seem that lowering the number of tyers is in order, and the time for signup dependant upon the number of participants sought.  Even at 40 tyers this year, I had to turn away several more.  Today, whilst awaiting the remaining 2 yet to arrive (and you know who you are!)   Yes, footdraggers extraordinaire.  I began addressing, labeling and otherwise trying to put things in order before the grand event, ie: sorting all these flies and trying not to get stuck. Another trip to the PO tomorrow as I still am short about 10 mailing boxes.  Because of the weather on the east coast, I was to be on the road today to Evington, VA. but am delayed leaving until Tuesday.  Which means I will be back home by late Wed. 7 March. Consequently, all parcels will be mailed not later than Thursday 8 March. Here is what I am leaning towards in subsequent swaps: Maximum 30 tyers 14 day signup, or 30 tyers, whichever comes first 45 days to deadline, as calculated from the end of signup For those that don’t make the cut in January, someone else can host a swap later in the year…be my guest! :-0 Frank Church

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40__X___ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45___X___ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

who’s doing a great job, by the way! Thanks Frank, Herman —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_X_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30____X__ 45______ 60______

I found there was no reward for my diligence in getting my flies in early! Frank, if you could put in a couple for the clave and send the rest back to me, I’d apprecate it.  I know of a few steelhead I want to show my Pinl Ladies to. Peter Collin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25__XX___ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_XX_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45__XX____ 60______ 4. Should nymphomaniac female fly fishers get extra flys in the swap since

they are "just learning"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -yes_____ no______ let’s see their offerings first___XX__ only if Stan posts photos______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____

20 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

Aside from concern for the swapmeister, quantity wasn’t a big deal for me. Because I’m still honing what few skills I have, being forced to tie a LOT of flies was actually a good thing for me this time.   Just for sheer time & quantites of material, however, more than 40 would be quite a burden for some, I’d expect.   30 seems like a nice number. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.   Anybody who can’t make up their mind in two weeks is going to have a tough time getting their flies tied on time <g. 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

That would depend on question #1 wouldn’t it?   60 days was comfortable for me to tie 40 flies; but I was done early so I’ll say 45 days. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30___X__ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45____X__ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people…..

The more the merrier 2.  How many days…..

Swapmeisters discretion 3.  How many days…..

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

30 works for me. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.  Hell, it took less time than that to get 40 tiers this time, didn’t it? 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

45 Keith

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30__X___ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40___X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ 45______ 60______

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25____Y 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____   2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_____Y 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45_____Y 60______

Steve

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. 25__X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X___ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ I think the major problem we have is too long a lag from signup to delivery and thus the 5-6 dropouts we’ve seen in the last two swaps.  I would suggest a 30 day window for tying and mailing but suggest that nobody mail them in until the last week.  At that time we should ask again who’s in and out and we can adjust the final count before mailing in so many extras.  I don’t mind tying extras, when I’m in production mode, I tie a dozen or so extras for my fly box anyways.  I like the idea of making a set or two for handing out as a clave donation, but 5-6 is pushing it. –Stan

Response:

Question:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

Response:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them?

Um……U.S Post Office?

Response:

I have a first day issue of these stamps.  They were released on May 31, 1991 by the US post office. If you live in the US, look in your local phone book for a stamp collector store.  They will probably have it.  I first day issue will probably cost about $10, a strip about $5.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

Response:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I can get them?

I don’t know if they are still available in the Post Office or not — occasionally I see someone offer a booklet of them on eBay at auction. Fleetwood is still selling First Day Covers and Postcards so you can get a description of the stamps by going to their web site and searching for "fishing flies" http://www.unicover.com/unisearch.htm? At the time of issue the Post Office also put out a framed print of a fly fisherman with all five stamps included.  I have one around here somewhere but couldn’t find it to provide a better description. I’m not a stamp collector myself but am trying to round up copies of all the first day stuff for the Largemouth Bass stamp. Have a great weekend, — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://members.aol.com/BassBks/index.html

Response:

Question:

A few years ago, Cabela’s had hip length stocking foot, in neoprene, and in lighter material.  You might try them. Kent in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Red Ball and Hogman make about 90% of all the waders…..  so its a good chance they make those according to the Specs dan BAiley wants see if he has a waranty…. heck since you like the price try em… if you hate em tell the NG and dan bailey.. let everyone know I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing.  I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok.  Are these any good? durable? crap?  Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper.

One thing to look at when comparing brands is the foot.  The type with the foot included as a single cut of material is more durable (and more expensive) than the type with the leg and foot cut as seperate pieces and then welded on. The first type has a single seam running down the front of the wader, around the foot and up the back (like a J split in half lengthwise).  The second type has a double seam (like a crossed "t") at the front of the ankle and again at the back of the ankle where the feet and legs are joined, and are prone to leak at those junctures.  They can make a lot more waders out of the same amount of material by cutting the foot and the leg as seperate pieces though, so they are cheaper. Orvis has a set of stocking foot supplex-nylon hippers (called the World’s Coolest) with the single seam for $54.  They are significantly more expensive than the Dan Bailey ones you inquired about, but the seams may be the reason. I’m not familiar with Dan Bailey’s version so I’m can’t say for sure.  Take a look at the seams of all those you’re considering, and check out the warranties that back them up.                                     Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing.  I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok.  Are these any good? durable? crap?  Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. One thing to look at when comparing brands is the foot.  The type with the foot included as a single cut of material is more durable (and more expensive) than the type with the leg and foot cut as seperate pieces and then welded on. The first type has a single seam running down the front of the wader, around the foot and up the back (like a J split in half lengthwise).  The second type has a double seam (like a crossed "t") at the front of the ankle and again at the back of the ankle where the feet and legs are joined, and are prone to leak at those junctures.  They can make a lot more waders out of the same amount of material by cutting the foot and the leg as seperate pieces though, so they are cheaper. Orvis has a set of stocking foot supplex-nylon hippers (called the World’s Coolest) with the single seam for $54.  They are significantly more expensive than the Dan Bailey ones you inquired about, but the seams may be the reason. I’m not familiar with Dan Bailey’s version so I’m can’t say for sure.  Take a look at the seams of all those you’re considering, and check out the warranties that back them up.                                     Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Howdy, Thanks all very much for responding. I thought what the heck and ended up purchasing the Flyweight Hippers. To respond to Dan, the foot on the waders is part of a single cut of material – with the single seam running down the front. The nylon isn’t that thick so I’ll have to be careful not to run into anything to sharp etc. Didn’t check the warranty or other products for that matter since I’m going embarking down to Southern Hemisphere for some ’summer’ fishing next week and just wanted to get something. You can be sure I’ll let you know if they turn out to be unsatisfactory. Cheers, Dean

Response:

Dean, It sounds like the hippers you chose have a foot construction similar to the Supplex Orvis hippers I own.  To prvent the boots from bunching around my feet, I taped them snug around my feet and ankles prior to putting my feet into neoprene booties and then wading shoes.  Don’t go anywhere without a roll of athletic tape. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy, Thanks all very much for responding. I thought what the heck and ended up purchasing the Flyweight Hippers. To respond to Dan, the foot on the waders is part of a single cut of material – with the single seam running down the front. The nylon isn’t that thick so I’ll have to be careful not to run into anything to sharp etc. Didn’t check the warranty or other products for that matter since I’m going embarking down to Southern Hemisphere for some ’summer’ fishing next week and just wanted to get something. You can be sure I’ll let you know if they turn out to be unsatisfactory. Cheers, Dean

Response:

Look at the Hook & Hackle catalog on the net.  They have stocking foot hippers by Red Ball and Hodgman.  I used a pair of Red Ball for years, and just sent for a pair of Hodgman’s to see if they were as good. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. Dean

Response:

        Dean, I bought a pair of neoprene stockingfoot hippers from LL Bean a couple of years back, and I’ve been happy with them. I’d used the old Red Ball Flyweights in years past and found them a bit lacking in the area of durability. True, the neoprene is a tad warmer, and a little more expensive, but I’m happy with them just the same. They have the advantage of being more comfortable in early season (cold water) than the flyweights, too.

Response:

I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

Red Ball and Hogman make about 90% of all the waders…..  so its a good chance they make those according to the Specs dan BAiley wants see if he has a waranty…. heck since you like the price try em… if you hate em tell the NG and dan bailey.. let everyone know – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

Question:

Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris

Response:

Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun.

        Boy, I THINK it was in this newsgroup, but it was possibly in the GPS NG (sci.geo.satellite-nav) or the rec.backcountry newsgroup where I just responded to a very similar question about the Boundary Waters in August. Thus you might want to go to Dejanews and do a search there for same for my (tiny) pearls of wisdom. (And, beyond that, in the rec.backcountry newsgroup if not this flyfishing one if you go back even a little way you’ll find tons of stuff addressing your question. I tried to summarize in the post I referred to above, and damned if I can remember what NG it was in. I seem to recall trying to talk quite a bit about flyfishing so I suspect it was in this NG, but I can’t be sure.)         Basically though, my point was that you should start thinking about smallmouth early in the morning and evenings off rocky shelves in the shallows, and pike in the weeds. There’s lots of ways to check to see if the lakes you are going to are primarily smallmouth or walleye, though the bigger lakes will have both. As to walleye, I don’t know about you but trying to flyfish any further than about 3-4 feet down just ain’t my idea of fun. To each his own though….         Good luck. Tom Burczyk

Response:

I use deerhair poppers for smallmouth morning and evening. White gartside streamer weighed during day,also black woolyburger with a little red tinsel down the back. Try lead eyed woolyburgers with about 4 bass type hackles tied on as a tail fish it with long leader that has silicone on it you can detect the soft takes of walleye. have fun .. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris

Response:

<<<<<I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris Hi.  I’ll be there, too, and if I see you I’ll wave. I usually have excellent luck catching bass and northerns in that area with a huge orange shrimp pattern that is actually a steelhead fly. Leeches or deer hair mice twitched through the reed beds are dynamite for large northerns, but don’t try that on a 5 weight. On the Seine River near there, I’ve caught blue gills and gigantic lake whitefish on caddis and Adams towards evening. I always see lots of dragonfly nymph shucks around and inch-long brownish mayflies with white wings on the cabin screens each morning. Walleyes are usually down too deep, but you might pick the odd one up in the shallows. I usually paddle into back bays and cast tight to the bank, around brush, next to weeds. P.S. I’ll be doing a reading at the Atikokan Public Library on July 8, so drop in if you’re in the neighbourhood.

Response:

Ditto the last post–also– Keep your attention focused on points, especially ones near deep water. To catch walleyes or northerns in the summer heat you will have to fish like a spin guy.  I like a shooting head line with a "float tip" (if this gets famous then I get credit).  Take your nymph line and rig a loop-to-loop with about six feet of the head section of an old floating line.  Alternative:  fish a floating fly on a sinking line.  Go to leader (a flat butt of 40 and then 30/20 and maybe a 12 pound tippet; it’s a tossup:  catch more walleyes or get cut off by northerns.)  If you have a depth sounder you’re more likely to score.  Pick the windiest point you can find near big water, or near the flow where one lake has necked down into another.  Make your cast down wind and drift with your sinking line then strip back across the wind or with it.  Use clousers or strip leeches–color may matter, and it may vary from chartreuse to black.  A black strip leech with a fluorescent orange head is my favorite.  To move walleyes you will probably have to be at least 12′ deep, and maybe as deep as 18′.  A rocky or gravelly flat that extends in deep water will almost always hold fish.  Move shallower on the same structure for smallies; move out over deep water but near the dropoff for big northerns. In the evening, stake out a likely flat near camp.  Get about a gallon of pure DEET.  As the light falls, make casts across the flat parallel to the deep water or across the wind and scrape the bottom in the same fashion. In the early morning (early:  first light) do the same.  In low-light conditions (or rain or fog) you may find walleyes in 6 to 10 feet of water; you will collide with all three species in that zone.  Also–in bays, especially if it’s warm and especially if the water is clear, make some casts with large topwaters such as hair bugs, bob’s bangers or other poppers, and large dahlbergs.  This may bring on smallies and northerns. If you tie, make up a few really huge dahlberg divers (6 to 8" range) as these are the best bet for big northerns. I’ll be on Basswood lake this year–no time for a really deep penetration of the parks.  Good luck! Dave

Response:

Question:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Try a recipe for the Giant Bunker fly described in any saltwater fly patterns book. Alewifes look remarkably close to Menhaden (Bunker). Herring immitations should also be good. Hint: use Bozo hair from Elite. Jose

Response:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Well, having fished for Northern and Muskie this last summer up in Lake Of The Woods, I no longer thing of a 3" streamer as a ‘big’ fly. Kinda small, actually! <grin Anyway, go with "old reliable" – a Clouser Minnow, with a grey back and white belly. 3" is only about a #4-4XL hook. Use either bucktail or, if you want something REALLY flashy, silver and white Flashabou _dubbing_. They’ll do the job! — Joe Ellis       o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()X  Darwin (;       Now on the Web at      | Fairfield, OH 45018 //~~~LL~~~~LL~ http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at US$25 hr/2 hr min.

Response:

Try a traditional little brown trout or something like a Silver Doctor. Okay, I’m out of date. — — Louis Bignami Visit http://www.finefishing.com Over 400 articles! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

Try a Gray Ghost.  It’s deadly. MZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

I don’t know about where you live but a big brown egg sucking leech (heavily weighted) with some yellow maribou mixed in with the brown/black maribou for the tail is my FAVORITE spring-time brown trout fly. I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns

– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

Response:

Agree about grey ghosts. Also, try a "beer-belly" zonker in white.

Response:

Question:

I haven’t been really following this thread and there may have been some email responses as well.  Could someone summarize?  I too would like to get some polarized Rx glasses. — John Fereira, posting from historic Pleasanton, Ca. Viacom Cable "More Of What You’re Looking For"

Response:

I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.

        Yes… There’s a company called Cabela’s that has perscription polarized sunglasses for as low as $149 (and as high as $199).  They’re by "Specialized eyewear".  I’ve never heard of it, but you may have.  They look fairly nice.  Order their catalog… The number is 1-800-237-4444 (24 hours, 7 days a week, US and Canada). -Steve —      Duke Systems BBS/Info System – 216/587-4474 (10PM-7AM EST) 14.4k v.32

Response:

I have a pair of bifocal Rx polaroids I mail-ordered fro the Cabella’s catalog several years ago. They work great. I use them all the time. Price was in the $220 neighborhood, I think, which is not bad…

Response:

I have two pair of polarized prescription sunglasses.  The construction is a sandwich with the polarizing material in between.  One is plastic and very light, the other is photogray glass and doesn’t seem to be much (if any) thicker than the standard glass lenses. don’t go totally clear inside.  I doubt if I would get them again unless that aspect changed, but they do a very good job outdoors.  The plastic ones were about $160 and are extremely comfortable and effective. Enjoy, Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stonick) says: says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic. I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist). I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate. John,   If I’m wrong on this one then I’m stuck with a pair of glasses that are heavier than need be.  When I purchased these lenses there really wasn’t any question about whether they were glass of plastic…no choice.  After looking at my sunglasses (which I just did) I cannot really tell if they are glass or plastic.  They are abou the same thickness as my regular lenses (plastic).  I suppose the important point was that they said they were not scratch resistant. Again…if they can be made scratch resistant…I missed the boat. One other important item not to be overlooked.  When you purchase the frames, assuming you buy something like a Ray Ban or other regular sunglass, buy the version with regular sunglass lenses rather than polarized, non-prescription lenses which will cost you a lot more.  I think the difference between buying my sunglasses with regular vs polarized non-script lenses was 85. vs 130. Don’t let them sucker you into the non-script polarized unless you may need them later (eg if you buy contacts and might switch lenses). Sorry for all the long-windedness of this..the end result is that I really like the glasses I have and would recommend getting prescription polarized.                                Scott

— — — Steve Bunis,  Sun Microsystems  ***DoD #0795***        93-ST1100   —               Itasca, IL       ***AMA #682049***         —                               ***HRCA #HM125617** —                                  *** N9VLP ***

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic.   I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist).   I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate.

The laminate the polaarizing plastic over your lense (plastic or glass). — Richard Park    

Response:

Stonick) says: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic. I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist). I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate.

John,   If I’m wrong on this one then I’m stuck with a pair of glasses that are heavier than need be.  When I purchased these lenses there really wasn’t any question about whether they were glass of plastic…no choice.  After looking at my sunglasses (which I just did) I cannot really tell if they are glass or plastic.  They are abou the same thickness as my regular lenses (plastic).  I suppose the important point was that they said they were not scratch resistant. Again…if they can be made scratch resistant…I missed the boat. One other important item not to be overlooked.  When you purchase the frames, assuming you buy something like a Ray Ban or other regular sunglass, buy the version with regular sunglass lenses rather than polarized, non-prescription lenses which will cost you a lot more.  I think the difference between buying my sunglasses with regular vs polarized non-script lenses was 85. vs 130. Don’t let them sucker you into the non-script polarized unless you may need them later (eg if you buy contacts and might switch lenses). Sorry for all the long-windedness of this..the end result is that I really like the glasses I have and would recommend getting prescription polarized.                                Scott

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Path: zcias2.ziff.com!noc.near.net!news.bu.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston .ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!sbm1 Organization: Penn State University Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Lines: 44

USA Sport makes a plastic polarized lens that allows for a prescription insert. I’ve got two pairs of the frames, one in gold smoke and one a gray/green polarized which lets me move the insert into the appropriate frame. They run about $250 for the first set with prescription insert, then about $80 for just the polarized frame and lense combo. If you have a Price Club/Costco near you, they handle these in their optical departments. If you buy there you can cut the price in half. David< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says:        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.        Thanx, — — Mike…… I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc and was always slightly dissatisfied.  Also went to route of wearing contacts and then purchasing polarized non-prescriptions but I gave up on the contacts. My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these things can really let me see all the details. Some suggestions:  I believe Cabelas (and others) do carry frames and will allow you to order prescription lenses but I don’t know if I like this idea. Any decent optical shop can order polarized lenses for you but they don’t come cheap.  MAJOR CONCERN:  keep in mind that you can use any "optical quality" frame to hold your lenses.  This means they must have screws that open the frame to allow the lense placement.  YOU CANNOT use frames that "pop" lenses into a nylon frame. I mention this because I had a pair of Ray Ban Cats (nylon frame) and they could not put polarized lenses into them…the polarizing filter is laminated or sandwiched within the rest of the lense and the fear is that by popping the lense into the frame you will de-laminate the lense. I purchase a pair of Ray Ban frames (outdoorsmen, pilot-style) of optical quality and then ordered polarized lenses in my Rx.  I went through Pearle Express but any decent optical place should be able to help you.  If you can find frames cheaper elsewhere…do so, but make sure they are optical quality! Pearle just had a so-called "deal" of 50% off all frames…but even with this, they weren’t cheap.  My bottom line on this…I debated for years before making this decision but I think it was worth the extra money. MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.                         Scott Maitland E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

David Chernicoff — Any opinion expressed is mine….     unless I’ve been kidnapped by aliens..     in which case, it’s ours…… <—

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The answer is YES, I’ve been wearing polorized bifocals for years.  See your optomitrist<sp? and he should be able to order them.  They do cost some but make all the difference on the water. Aloha – bob    ooo_

: I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? : — Mike……

away.  Can you get prescription bifocals in polorized glasses, plain lense on top and mags down low?  That would be perfect for my applications. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone.

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says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.

I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic.   I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist).   I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate. — John "fish tremble when they hear my name" Stonick

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        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.         Thanx, — — Mike…… Process Automation Dept. M.C. 2-467  | UUCP:…!UUNET!Inland!Tichenor Inland Steel Co.                     | Prodigy: WBFC49A 3210 Watling St.                     | Voice: (219)399-5777 E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

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says:        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.        Thanx, — — Mike……

 I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc and was always slightly dissatisfied.  Also went to route of wearing contacts and then purchasing polarized non-prescriptions but I gave up on the contacts. My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these things can really let me see all the details. Some suggestions:  I believe Cabelas (and others) do carry frames and will allow you to order prescription lenses but I don’t know if I like this idea. Any decent optical shop can order polarized lenses for you but they don’t come cheap.  MAJOR CONCERN:  keep in mind that you can use any "optical quality" frame to hold your lenses.  This means they must have screws that open the frame to allow the lense placement.  YOU CANNOT use frames that "pop" lenses into a nylon frame. I mention this because I had a pair of Ray Ban Cats (nylon frame) and they could not put polarized lenses into them…the polarizing filter is laminated or sandwiched within the rest of the lense and the fear is that by popping the lense into the frame you will de-laminate the lense. I purchase a pair of Ray Ban frames (outdoorsmen, pilot-style) of optical quality and then ordered polarized lenses in my Rx.  I went through Pearle Express but any decent optical place should be able to help you.  If you can find frames cheaper elsewhere…do so, but make sure they are optical quality! Pearle just had a so-called "deal" of 50% off all frames…but even with this, they weren’t cheap.  My bottom line on this…I debated for years before making this decision but I think it was worth the extra money. MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.                          Scott Maitland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

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: says: : :        Hi all, : I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? : I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses : types are too cumbersome. :        Thanx, : — : — Mike…… :  I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc : My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions : and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these : things can really let me see all the details. I don’t wear prescrition glasses but do take magnifiers with me on the water.  As I get older, I find that focusing up close (tying flys and tying the darn #24s on a 7X tipit) has become a problem.  The magnifiers solve the problem but prevent you from seeing anything beyond a foot away.  Can you get prescription bifocals in polorized glasses, plain lense on top and mags down low?  That would be perfect for my applications. Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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