Question:

[...] PULEAZE cease with the html. Text only, thanks very much.

Response:

[snipped] <yawn how about yawning us an answer, eh mr. grey matter?

OK, if you promise not to top post any longer? There is no "answer", as anyone with a collection of more than a couple of flyrods (or over two dozen, in my case) will attest. We often allow ourselves "current favorites", and on occasion may even profess to a single "favorite" rod. But within a week we’re loving another just as much. We’re fickle. Sue us But, fwiw, I’ve got nothing better to do during rehab this morning, so I’ll play along: the finest five piece nine foot eight weight rod ever made is *my* Winston BL5 9/8. It has the sweetest action of any 8 or 9 weight in my stable (6 or 7 rods in that range) and you never notice the ferrules. It *is* the Holy Grail – if that happens to describe a highly portable bonefish and striper machine with no equal, period. OK? /daytripper (tune in later when I wax eloquent over my 7/2, or one of my 9/5s, or ….)

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain. The Leonard used by G.E.M. Skues.  It was more than a little responsible for some of his excellent writings and musings.

For me, there isn’t _one_ particular rod as there are too many that would fit the above description, and like most things involving tackle, no one would agree – one person’s "Holy Grail" is another’s flea-market, carnival glass candy dish.   For example, in no particular order, the above mentioned rod, rods used by Bergman, Ed Payne’s first rod (or a Payne-ferruled Leonard), Hemingway-owned rods, various Garrison rods (for example, very early rods, such as John Alden Knight’s or Miller’s "Wyandach" rod, or even the first of certain tapers) or even the borrowed Payne that started Garrison off.   Heck, even the rod(s) used in "the movie," or just the first split-bamboo, fiberglass, or graphite, etc. might qualify to one or more people. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain. The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price).

I suppose in very general terms, assuming a middle and general range of size, either the early Payne (the later Paynes are not, IMO, the rods the early rods were) or Garrison rods, given the "pinnacle of the rod building craft" condition.  But they have the disadvantage of needing a certain level of care.   That said, I don’t think there is a specific "Rolls-Royce of flyrods." A 6 1/2′ foot Payne to a saltwater fisher is little more than kindling, and a big Garrison with a large Fin-Nor to a small-stream trouter is a tentpole.  As to pure workmanship, I have a Payne-made multipart/multirod "set," thought to be a "one-off," that is probably the finest overall workmanship I’ve ever seen (and others have agreed), but as a true fishing "masterpiece," IMO, it’s marginal, given it’s bulk and as a whole, its overall lack of practicality.  But I also have what was a very inexpensive very light St. Croix glass, completely redone, that is as good at its purpose any I’ve used, and the finish is, again, IMO, as good as it comes. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke I know some of the rods from Bruce and Walker were pretty awful, in fact I cast a few.  This I feel was due to many of them having the wrong design characteristics. I did  not handle them all, and none of the salmon rods, so my comments are rather general in nature, and should not be construed as a general condemnation of the B&W rods.

I fish for salmon either with a 9 foot hardy – the first rod I bought – 6/7 weight, on which I’ve also caught most of my salmon, or on a B&W ‘Silver Stream’ 12 foot, which was never highly regarded but which I love, or a lovely rod (to my hand) – a very gentle 15 foot B&W ‘grilse’ – only 6 or 7 weight, but terrific for covering bouldery streams – quite big – like the upper reaches of the Finn, in Donegal, or the Mourne, in Tyrone, which are my favourite salmon rivers. These two rods are  quite slow, but they don’t get all nervous in the big winds of the West of Ireland, and you can keep control of the line and, if you’re lucky, the fish, in amongst all those boulders. So I like B&W a lot. SNIP As I have also said before, these rods are "fishing" tools, not "casting" tools. If you want a cannon, then get a super fast Sage or Loomis etc.  If you want pleasurable tireless fishing on rivers and streams, get either a good cane, ( not my preference, too much trouble,, and too expensive anyway), or a Hexagraph.

I agree with this distinction. Especially with salmon, you have to enjoy casting, rather than worry about it, since you may end up doing an awful lot of it for any fish you may hook. So I’m all for an easy, pleasant action rather than something that shoots the line a bit further. And few of the trout I catch are hooked more than (at the most) fifteen yards away. Occasionally, for fun, I’ll  cast a trout line further, but it’s only for the fun. i know that at that sort of distance the fly will be dragging enough for the fish to see, even if I can’t. That said, I’m very fond of a couple of rods I built myself from Sage reject blanks at fifty bucks apiece. L — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

<snip Deal with it, luser… /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

I dunno, Dave. I think you showed amazing restraint. I thought his indignant reply to your post would *really* set you off!  :) Tim

Response:

Oh, blow it out your ample arse, newbie. Someone posts an obvious troll ("duckin’ and runnin’", wasn’t it?) and you expect RESPECT for that act? /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

Well, at least he didn’t ask what everyone’s favorite "social lubricant" was…under the name of "Trixie ‘Biguns’ LaBoom"…from Dripping Springs, Texas… TC, R "standing tall and taunting…."

Response:

The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price).

fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

I know some of the rods from Bruce and Walker were pretty awful, in fact I cast a few.  This I feel was due to many of them having the wrong design characteristics. I did  not handle them all, and none of the salmon rods, so my comments are rather general in nature, and should not be construed as a general condemnation of the B&W rods. The first carbon fibre rods I handled, were also pretty lousy, as they were obvious attempts to duplicate cane actions. Carbon fibre does not possess many of the limitations of cane, and it seems pretty pointless to duplicate cane rods in this manner. It is in any case impossible to even duplicate cane accurately, unless you also consider the weight, which contributes to the action.  Saying that an ultra-light carbon fibre rod has the same "action" as cane is absolute nonsense, it can not have the same action, it simply does not possess sufficient mass. Notwithstanding its limitations, cane also has advantages. One of these is the "solid" construction. This contributes weight of course, but also gives the rod capabilities which an ultra-light tubular carbon fibre rod simply does not have. You may need to apply so much power to an ultra-light rod, to get it to perform at all, that it becomes infinitely more tiring to use, than a rod which is heavier to start with. One reason why many are now using fibreglass rods again. If these are relatively short, there is no noticeable disadvantage due to excess weight, in fact it is a positive advantage when casting. They are not as troublesome to care for as cane, and they are not as easily damaged either. Also, the "transition" point of a solid rod, the point before which a rod is capable of loading itself, because of its own mass, is much more pronounced, and much more useful for close range work with light lines. Some tubular rods are impossible to cast properly at short range, because one can not move them fast enough to load them. This also considerably reduces the delicacy with which one is able to cast. This, which I consider to be probably the single most important characteristic of a cane rod, can be not only duplicated, but enhanced, using the solid "hexagraph" construction. The resulting blank is perfectly straight, can not warp, is extremely robust, and more or less invulnerable to weather or any other similar damage. It will not take a set, it will cast in a perfectly straight line, without "wobbling", it has no pronounced "spine", ( it has none at all), the deformation common in tubular rods under stress does not take place, it will cast a wide range of weights easily,  etc etc etc. For a long time, it was my ambition to build such a rod, and make the materials and processes available to the home builder. Unfortunately I never realised it. The closest I ever got was building a hexagonal rod tip using fibre glass.  It took me a long time to make it, and the results, although encouraging, did not really warrant the amount of time involved. I am sure that if I could have used carbon fibre, that they would have been much better. I have read a great deal about the hexagraphs, and I have handled quite a few. For quite a while I snapped up all the second hand ones I could get hold of, as far as I could afford them, and I even bought three new ones. Incidentally the only "new" rods I have ever bought in my entire life, which were not either damaged, or heavily discounted in the first place. If I ever have the wherewithal, I would throw all the rods I own away, ( even the "good" ones), and buy myself a range of the new Hexagraphs. I think they are just about the ultimate fishing tool, at this particular point in time. As I have also said before, these rods are "fishing" tools, not "casting" tools. If you want a cannon, then get a super fast Sage or Loomis etc.  If you want pleasurable tireless fishing on rivers and streams, get either a good cane, ( not my preference, too much trouble,, and too expensive anyway), or a Hexagraph. TL MC

Response:

<yawn So sorry my posts don’t amuse you, oh great and powerful Caesar. Please don’t feed me to the lions!  I’ll try harder to please you next time, I promise. Do you treat all strangers with such disrespect?  I guess it’s pretty easy when you have a screen name to hide behind. Pete Greenwood

Oh, blow it out your ample arse, newbie. Someone posts an obvious troll ("duckin’ and runnin’", wasn’t it?) and you expect RESPECT for that act? Here’s what you earned so far: one FOAD on your permanent record. My "screen name" has been here for years and years, and the person behind it is known to far more of the denizens than yours shall ever be. Deal with it, luser… /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain. Ducking and covering… Pete Greenwood

Response:

[snipped] <yawn

Response:

how about yawning us an answer, eh mr. grey matter?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] <yawn

Response:

<yawn

So sorry my posts don’t amuse you, oh great and powerful Caesar. Please don’t feed me to the lions!  I’ll try harder to please you next time, I promise. Do you treat all strangers with such disrespect?  I guess it’s pretty easy when you have a screen name to hide behind. Pete Greenwood

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain.

The Leonard used by G.E.M. Skues.  It was more than a little responsible for some of his excellent writings and musings. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain.

The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). Ducking and covering… Pete Greenwood

Casting and mending…. TL MC

Response:

Question:

All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection.

  Thanks for the info.  Let us know the date of next year’s event. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

  Oh, no.  They moved Laramie?  I really liked the old location:)   Boy, that sounds like a good time.  If I wasn’t all traveled out, I’d go. Also, the ice is going off.  Time to do some local fishing, finally. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

i think you mean west of cheyenne….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

Response:

  Oh, no.  They moved Laramie?  I really liked the old location:)   Boy, that sounds like a good time.

    Drag your sorry ass down; me and Willi are going.

Response:

    Drag your sorry ass down; me and Willi are going.

  Well, that’s just not fair.  The two guys I know who least need any education in the fly fishing field get to go and the guy who could really benefit has a severe case of jet lag and there’s no way I could have made it to Laramie.   Man, I’m beat.  On March 6th & 7th, I was on the Bighorn.  On the 8th, I drove home to Buffalo, changed gear and drove to Denver so I could be airborne to Orlando on Sat. am.  I went with my retired pilot friends to the EAA fly in at Lakeland.  I got to fly first class both ways and got to drink some first class gin & tonics.  (I’m back on the wagon, now.)  I went from 10 degrees on the ‘horn to 85 degrees with big time humidity in Fla.  How the heck to folks live down there?   The fishing on the Bighorn was really slow.  Everyone caught some fish on Wed. when we floated from mile 3 to Bighorn.  No surface action and the fly rod guides didn’t stay thawed out to about 2:00 pm.  We stayed at Cottonwood and noticed the place was packed.  We decided to float the lower river, Bighorn to Mallard, in the hopes there wouldn’t be a crowd.  That panned out.  But, there were no fish caught by the 5 in our group.  We’d never fished that stretch so it was interesting to see some new country.  There was a lot of "fishy" looking water and the water was pretty clear.  There are some pretty good fishermen in our group so I was very surprised that there were no fish caught.  I guess the buys did pretty good on Friday when they fished from afterbay to mile 3 but the river was very crowded.   Has anyone heard of any talk about a pretty heavy fish kill on the ‘horn?  A couple of months ago, we saw a large number of dead fish on the bottom.  There’s been some talk of last years low flows impacting the fish population.   The stream in town is ice free and I’m going out this afternoon to see if any local lakes have opened up.  Life is good:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

~^beancounter~^ added: i think you mean west of cheyenne…..

the wind can blow pretty hard up here…. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

  So tell us about the seminar. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

What is the TITLE of this tape and who is selling it I wonder? Does anyone know? George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb. This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb. What is the TITLE of this tape and who is selling it I wonder? Does anyone know?

It’s something of his own that Jack had, and as much as he’d like to incorporate it into a complete video, one of the key people involved in making it is hard to locate. Until he can get this person’s permission to borrow the footage for a new video (on streamer fishing), there won’t be one. I wouldn’t say never, but I would say to be patient and watch for it. Until then, if you’re at any sports show where Jack is doing a seminar on streamer fishing, go to it and you’ll probably see the footage. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies), we arrived at the UW campus just as some famous people were breaking for lunch. The afternoon was spent at a symposium where more famous people talked about progressive water right laws like we’ll NEVER see in Colorado, but before you knew it, it was about beer-thirty, so Willi and I headed downtown and killed a little time before the banquet. The banquet was very nice, the food was excellent and Rusty’s chapter even threw in a host bar (my chapter would be in the red if they ever did anything as foolhardy), I spent an hour juggling free booze while trying not to look too interested in the silent auction painting I was determined to take home. After dinner Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson gave a very touching slide show, which dedicated the Gary Lafontaine library collection. I won a bunch of cool junk I have no use for at the raffle, so I’ll probably send some of it with Willi to the Penn’s Clave. Enjoyed a great Fuente on the drive home.

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies)

That’s Charlie’s joke, not mine! Willi

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies),

jeff can’t play da ‘jo worth sheet. only din tom picks iz heez nose. no worry willi, afta a few swigs of the mountain brew, ya ain’t gonna hear the music…. gusto..

Response:

Clave. Enjoyed a great Fuente on the drive home.

Just took delivery from London of a dozen Opus X’s, and a box of Romeo and Julietta’s. Came right through customs marked "cigars". Now if I just had a damn trip to a stream to smoke a few.

Response:

Just took delivery from London of a dozen Opus X’s, and a box of Romeo and Julietta’s. Came right through customs marked "cigars". Now if I just had a damn trip to a stream to smoke a few.

  I’ll bet Charlie and I could fix you up with more streams than you could imagine.  That is, of course, as long as you bring along your latest shipment:) What about it Charlie?  Wanna split some X’s and R&J’s? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  I’ll bet Charlie and I could fix you up with more streams than you could imagine.  That is, of course, as long as you bring along your latest shipment:)

Perhaps you might better explain "fix you up". Where I come from it means you are either about to have a blind date with the ugliest girl in the county or you had better not bend over without looking back first. But ifin I can get out of a fundraising committment I have this weekend by just writing a check instead, then some of them ceegars should be parked on the South Platte this weekend. I think I might make the Penns thingie for a couple of days at least and I need a little practice, if only I can make sure I can get the fly onto the water. Wayne

Response:

Perhaps you might better explain "fix you up". Where I come from it means you are either about to have a blind date with the ugliest girl in the county or you had better not bend over without looking back first.

  She wouldn’t be that ugly.  Trust us. But ifin I can get out of a fundraising committment I have this weekend by just writing a check instead, then some of them ceegars should be parked on the South Platte this weekend. I think I might make the Penns thingie for a couple of days at least and I need a little practice, if only I can make sure I can get the fly onto the water.

  Ummm.  South Platte is a long way for me to go to fish or smoke a cigar.  I guess I’ll just have to stay home and smoke one or two of my maduro Double Chateau Fuente’s:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop

Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne). There will be tying and casting demos, along with other presentations on both fishing and conservation issues. There is a banquet and raffle on Saturday night ($20 per person); everything else is free. Things get started at 9AM both days, and all events will take place in the Wyoming Student Union, except for a reception on Friday at the Toppan Angling Books Collection, which will take place at the American Heritage Center. For further information call the Wyoming Union Ticket Office at 307-766-3160, or contact me by email (after de-munging the addy. This event is sponsored by the University Flycasters and the Wyoming Student Chapter of the American Fisheries Society. This is the seventh one of these we’ve done, and they’re always a good time. Make it if you can. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

So Charlie, I’d be making that H&H, you need the length for mending and for keeping the fly out of the crap behind you, on the backcast.

Thanks, I’ll get the parts ordered. — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie Choc: I’d need a 6wt (looking for an excuse to build a rod, actually<g). —

Build.  Build.  Build.  Tell the OWMBO that I said so. Dave Dave LaCourse

Response:

Uh, I hit send before I was finished.  More to follow. All of the fish I caught were on a 9 foot four weight with WF4F line.  A  6 weight would be ideal for lobbing streamers (help me here, Peter C.), but a 5 should work just as well.  And bring a four for nymphing and dry fly work.  Salmon Fly was using his own boo rod — prettiest damn thing you ever saw, and he was giving it a work-out.  I believe it was a 4 weight Dave LaCourse

Dave n’ Charlie Just fired up the laptop in North Bay before I start with their NT conversion (3 people branch – won’t take long) and I caught your plea for help.  <g I’m taking a 9 1/2′ 6 wt. for slinging big streamers into second current, off that big rock at the end of the island.  I’ll also be bringing a short 6 wt. and a 9′ 4 wt. and perhaps one other 4 wt. So Charlie, I’d be making that H&H, you need the length for mending and for keeping the fly out of the crap behind you, on the backcast. Peter

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[snip report] Nice report Dave. Makes me think I need to start building a rod to use there in September. I’m thinking about a 9 1/2′ 6wt from an H&H blank. Think that’ll be useful for streamer fishing? (I’ll be bringing along 3, 4 and 5wt rods as well). Will that be enough firepower or will I need something heavier? — Charlie…

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Nice report Dave. Makes me think I need to start building a rod to use there in September. I’m thinking about a 9 1/2′ 6wt from an H&H blank. Think that’ll be useful for streamer fishing? (I’ll be bringing along 3, 4 and 5wt rods as well). Will that be enough firepower or will I need something heavier? — Charlie…

Uh, I hit send before I was finished.  More to follow. All of the fish I caught were on a 9 foot four weight with WF4F line.  A  6 weight would be ideal for lobbing streamers (help me here, Peter C.), but a 5 should work just as well.  And bring a four for nymphing and dry fly work.  Salmon Fly was using his own boo rod — prettiest damn thing you ever saw, and he was giving it a work-out.  I believe it was a 4 weight Dave LaCourse

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All of the fish I caught were on a 9 foot four weight with WF4F line.  A  6 weight would be ideal for lobbing streamers (help me here, Peter C.), but a 5 should work just as well.  And bring a four for nymphing and dry fly work.  

OK, like I said I’ll have 3, 4 and 5wt rods along, just wondered if I’d need a 6wt (looking for an excuse to build a rod, actually<g). — Charlie…

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Jo, Henry and I arrived at Lakewood just in time for lunch on Monday.  I was a bit alarmed to hear that there were 15 people at the "island", but even more alarmed when told there were 35 there the day before!!!!!  I opted for the dam. Big mistake.  The dam should be easy to fish at 1300 cfs, but the new dam keeper just can’t get it right.  I had the place all to myself, but fishing was very difficult.  No rises.  Water temp at 51.  No hatches.  So, nymphs (or if Peter Charles streamers) were the order of the day.  I went through every nymph pattern I had and never got a strike.  Nothing!  I tied on a Prince as a dropper from a GRW and finally started to catch fish.  No brookies — only salmon 15 – 17 inches — and I ended the day with 3 fish. Tuesday found me at the "island" bright and early.  Two locals in a canoe lobbing big streamers in the 1st and 2nd currents.  I walked up to the wing dam pool and looked around for a few minutes.  No surface activity, but there were a few Henricksons coming off, but no fish rising to them.  I prefer fishing dries on this river, so I tied on a #16 Adams parachute.  Second cast into the riffles coming out of the wing dam and WHAM, a big brookie hit it.  I managed to land the 18 inch fish without a net, something I am not very good at. Beautiful color and it fought like hell.   I figured this was my day.  Wrong!  I fished for 4 more hours and never caught a thing.  But I was not alone.  I returned after lunch and the six or so people that were there had left, probably in disgust. I continued fishing the wing dam pool and managed another brookie about 15 inches, and a couple of salmon about 12 inches, all on prince nymphs. Wednesday, back to the "island" bright and early.  No one there.  I fished the wing dam pool again with limited results.  One of the guests at Lakewood walked his canoe up the rapids of the 2nd current and anchored in the fast water at the head of the pool.  In less that 10 minutes, he was into a helluva big fish.  When it broke off, he turned to me and put his hands about two feet apart.  "Honest", he said.  <g  Ten minutes later he was into another big one and managed to net all 23 inche of it.  It was the biggest brookie I had seen come out of those waters – not so much in length, but in girth too — it measured 16 inches in front of the dorsal.  I have forgotten the formula, but looking at that fish it must have weighed in at 6 pounds.  The irony of it all — that was his first and *only* fish of the day.    I landed (with help from my net!) a 20 inch brookie taken on a BWO emerger. The big brookies were not at the wingdam riffles like they normally are, but farther out in the pool.  They were porpoising, eating at what seemed a leisurely pace.  Every once in awhile, one would come straight up like he was trying to stand on his tail.  But there was very little splashing or noise — you wouldn’t know they were feeding unless you saw them.  And no one saw them except me.  Well, at least for awhile, anyway.  I threw every imaginable caddis emerger I could find in my fly box and they ignored everying.  I finally saw a flying insect and thought it to bea BWO.  Hmmmm. Not caddis.  Mayflies.  I tied on a BWO emerger that I bought several years ago on the advice of some "knowing" friend.  I bought a dozen and never used them — I *think* they are called RS2 or something like that.  Not being much of a mayfly fisher, I had completely forgotten them until now.  Well, I cast the damn thing out there and couldn’t see it in the moving water.  There was a rise where my fly *should* have been, but when  I set the hook, I had nothing.  So, I tied on a #14 Goddard Caddis and used the emerger as a dropper.  Second cast and the Goddard disappeared three seconds after it hit the water.  I set the hook Dave LaCourse

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Question:

Anyone who has had experience with the Dagger Venture 17, Dagger Passage, or Grumman 17′ Falcon double ender canoes, I would be greatly interested in function, reliability, and overall strengths of each.

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  I have owned a Venture 17 for about a year and a half and have been very satisfied with it.  We use it mainly for canoe camping, fishing and general relaxation rather than whitewater(we have other boats for that).   It paddles easily and can carries a large load.     I think I paddled a Passage while shopping for a canoe.  If it is the boat I am thinking of, (fairly long and made of some new light weight material) I didn’t like it.  The hull flexed enough that it seemed to absorb a lot of the power from each paddle stroke.  It also did not turn easily.  On the plus side it is light for its length, which makes getting it from the car to the water easier.         My first boat was a Grumman and I would not recommend an aluminum boat in this day and age with all of the other boats to choose from. I see that someone has posted a message about the drawbacks of aluminum.  You shoul look at it.    

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Looking to buy a canoe. What do I need to keep in mind? Who are some manufacturers? How much? Thanks.

I’m shopping also. I think you will get better help if you say a bit more about who you are and how you expect you expect to use the canoe.  The people who post here seem to vary widely — there are lots of whitewater folks, but not all.  Just be yourself. Then go get a Bell.  The lighter the better.  

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Although Marathon boats are indeed well made, reasonably priced and are durable, they are not well-suited for moving water with rocks; aluminum has a rather pronounced ‘rock grabbing’ property in that it does not glance off of obstructions, but instead tends to form around them and hold on. Hence, I figure Aluminum boats are ’specialty boats’, better suited for lake use. Grummans are not specialty canoes.  They are low cost, durable, general purpose canoes that used to be the workhorses of Canada’s north. They are noisy, always too cold or hot, ugly, tough, not affected by weather or UV, practical.

Well, in the sense that they are not highly-engineered, high tech material, computer designed to be the best at a narrow range of useages specialty boats, I agree. But they are definately not competitive as ‘all purpose’ boats for the reason you gave: they aren’t that good for running rivers. They were Canada’s workhorses because Aircraft aluminum was the first best option to wood strips or canvas: both of which were too fragile for the everyday user. When Grumman opened the door to general purpose canoeing, they offered durability, low maintenance and low cost. But now, all those things are in ABS boats, with less hull memory, less noise, and better hull shape. I would offer that ‘flatwater tripping canoes’ and your kevlar Clipper are specialty boats also; highly designed for a special purpose. I think an OT Kennebec or Discovery, MR Explorer (OK, its pricey), BH OCA or a host of other ABS boats are better suited for general purpose than a Grumman. Don’t get me wrong: if I had a camp in the boonies with a lake at the door, I’d probably want a Grumman with a motormount tied up at the dock, for the ambiance if nothing else. But to keep in my backyard, in town, to toss on the car for weekend river trips, to take on various lakes, for the occasional ocean paddle, to have as my all-purpose haul around boat…I don’t think its best suited for that. But YMMV, especially as I know your own tripping experience qualifies your opinions as being ‘well informed’. riverman

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I’ve been to the Swift  factory store, and saw their full line of canoes, swift canoes are truly beautiful. Give them a first look. their great to deal with. Looking to buy a canoe. What do I need to keep in mind? Who are some manufacturers? How much? Thanks. — Val Girolamo Design Engineer ASMAT Precision Mold Builders A Foster Group Company P: (716) 247-3556 xt. 217 F: (716) 247-7892

– Perry Chamberlain Liv’n on de Edge n de Desert Everyone has someone in their family who is crazy, if you don’t know who it is, its you!

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on the keyboard and ended up with: I think you will get better help if you say a bit more about who you are and how you expect you expect to use the canoe.  The people who post here seem to vary widely — there are lots of whitewater folks, but not all.  Just be yourself.

Well Harry, for the touring folks, there also is "Rec.Boats.Paddle.Touring", although a bunch of the touring people have hung around ever since the original RBP received its two subgroups (RBP.WhiteWater is the second one). Then go get a Bell.  The lighter the better.  

<puzzled look Wilko — Eindhoven            The Netherlands            Europe             "Look Mum: No Sense!"      

Question:

______  Is active and getting repaired. We are having wonderful discussions around the camp site.  Some are snoring away in their tents. — Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/   http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

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Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

Yea.  A St. Croix 9 ft. 8 wt., Lamson Model 3, Dacron backing (20#), and a WF8F line.  Use tough leader material. So.. what do you have against Orvis?  I think a lot of their stuff is has a good price/performance ratio and the local salesguys have been very helpful even though I don’t spend big bucks there. Andy Schreckenghost

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Paul Ruff writes: Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly

fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

Paul, Look for a so called fast action  (more tip than whole rod bend)… as you will need to be able to cast 80 feet plus to do well in salt water.  It is true you can get some casts in under 50 feet by stalking….. and have, but tarpon, bonefish and especially permit are spooky on the flats and require extra long casts to reach.  A fast tip action will help this.  In addition, practice 5 to 10 minutes a day for 3 to 4 weeks to strengthen the specific shoulder and arm muscles you will use….. makes a big difference after fishing…Also use the very best salt water line you can afford….. more important than the rod.   I have not used other than Orvis, Sage and Scott and all are not

inexpensive…. so I will pass on a specific recommendation of a rod…. I have seen and cast in a yard the St. Croix series and they look promising…. but have not fished them. have fun Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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Question:

Howdy everyone!  I am in the planning stages of a trip to South-West Alaska.  I have this brochure from Alaska Fish and Game that tells of the fishing conditions on Prince of Wales Island.  From the description I read it sounds like a cross between the Henry’s Fork and New Zealand, ie pristine streams packed with rainbows and grayling.  Then I talked to my friend who was there two years ago and he said Prince of Wales Island is a clear-cut eyesore with only small trout.  What gives?  Can anyone confirm or deny this situation? -John —      Its not that flyfishing is everything, it is just that everything      else in my life is less important.                                                      -Moi

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Howdy everyone!  I am in the planning stages of a trip to South-West Alaska.  I have this brochure from Alaska Fish and Game that tells of the fishing conditions on Prince of Wales Island.  From the description I read it sounds like a cross between the Henry’s Fork and New Zealand, ie pristine streams packed with rainbows and grayling.  Then I talked to my friend who was there two years ago and he said Prince of Wales Island is a clear-cut eyesore with only small trout.  What gives?  Can anyone confirm or deny this situation? -John —     Its not that flyfishing is everything, it is just that everything     else in my life is less important.                                                     -Moi

It depends on where you are.  It is possible to be a quarter mile from a clear-cut area and think you are in a pristine forest.  The only way to get a good look at these ugly scars is from the air.  The lumber industry keeps telling everyone that they can harvest at a renewable sustained yield.  Then they come to Alaska and chop down old growth forests with Uncle Sam underwriting the cost.  The main players are Japanese firms that turn the trees into pulp, I guess they use it for VCR instruction books. BTW if you go to southwest Alaska you’ll be about 1,000 miles from POW Island. R. Wood in Alaska

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Question:

: When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. : Then it’s too cold to fly fish. I submit it is too cold to fly fish, when the wings on those buggers start to ice up.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. : Then it’s too cold to fly fish. I submit it is too cold to fly fish, when the wings on those buggers start to ice up.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

You wouldn’t be much good for steedheading in the Northeast then.  There are several "tricks of the trade," to try to eliminate ice.

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must do wonders for the guides and the rod…

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That stuff is mostly isopropanol, toxic to fish, not good to be spilling in a stream. In fact, probably illegal in some states with stringent regulations (like California.) If you must use stuff like that onstream, be sure to filter it through a loaf of bread first. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice.

Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated.

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Ghillies prefer Scotch, though.

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When the thought of tying flies near a fireplace sounds better’n flying ties in an ice storm.

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice. Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated.

IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS THE TEMPERATURE GETS DOWN TO -20/30 C IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY AND MOST FLY FISHERMEN COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO CHISEL OUT A 40′X 1′ TRENCH THROUGH THE ICE IN ORDER TO LAY OUT A FLY NICELY.

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When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. Then it’s too cold to fly fish.

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depends on how pissed off the old lady is…

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice. Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated. IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS THE TEMPERATURE GETS DOWN TO -20/30 C IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY AND MOST FLY FISHERMEN COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO CHISEL OUT A 40′X 1′ TRENCH THROUGH THE ICE IN ORDER TO LAY OUT A FLY NICELY.

Haw! you think that’s bad,come down here to Texas for a week. 80 degree lows will make you shiver from head to toe!(well,maybe a little colder)                 Aaron Zee

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice.

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Question:

Does Orvis recommend snagging?<

I don’t think so, unless the object of the snagging is customers…..

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In the September-October 1995 Orvis News, Orvis recommends a new method of weighting a wet fly (in this case, Orvis egg clusters) so that there is nothing between the fly and the strike putty but line.  The theory is that putting a weight between the fly and the strike indicator will mask a strike, because action at the end of the line will be delayed on its way past the weight.   To avoid this, Orvis recommends clinch-knotting another length of line to the bend of the hook and attaching Orvis’s weighted putty to the other end of this line.  According to Michigan fishing regulations, I believe that is snagging (or at least an illegal method for taking trout and salmon).  Is it legal elsewhere?  Does Orvis realize it is giving bad advice?

Response:

To avoid this, Orvis recommends clinch-knotting another length of line to the bend of the hook and attaching Orvis’s weighted putty to the other end of this line.  According to Michigan fishing regulations, I believe that is snagging (or at least an illegal method for taking trout and salmon).  Is it legal elsewhere?  Does Orvis realize it is giving bad advice?

Sounds like bad advice in terms of drift too.  One advantage to putting the weight above the fly is that it leaves the fly free to drift about as the weight bounces along the bottom.  With the alleged Orvis system, the fly is suspended between the weight dragging along the bottom and the line or strike indicator dragging in the current.  It sounds like it would make it tougher to keep the fly drifting naturally. But Orvis’s point about the weight interfering with sensing the strike is a good one. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Question:

Maybe these fly fishing yuppies everybody likes to harangue are good for the sport. Although the Bureau of Reclamation, Army Corps of Engineers and state and local irrigation agencies aren’t building dams like they used to, there’s still lots of opportunity to ruin good streams, right? Who do you suppose is better positioned to fight a project that will ruin a particular stream: some misanthropic, authority-detesting fly fishing zealot who wields no power outside of his Sage 5-wt?; or an Orvis jeep-driving lawyer who’s been fly fishing since she saw A River Runs Through It? I’ll take the lawyer, thank you. I doubt the misanthrope knows much about how to organize and file for an injunction protecting the river. Maybe we should help these yuppies get *into* the club and with the program. Building a powerful, moneyed constituency for preserving our streams and rivers makes common sense.–Just my 2 cents. –Eric Robinson

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Make that .04  I think this yuppie-bashing is ludricrous.  Does the sport belong to the impoverished?  Anyone who is interested in flyfishing and all that it entails gets my nod, no matter what his/her economic bracket.  The rest is simple jealousy. — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "To protect your rivers, protect your mountains"       Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 B.C.

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Who do you suppose is better positioned to fight a project that will ruin a particular stream: some misanthropic, authority-detesting fly fishing zealot who wields no power outside of his Sage 5-wt?; or an Orvis jeep-driving lawyer who’s been fly fishing since she saw A River Runs Through It? I’ll take the lawyer, thank you. I doubt the misanthrope knows much about how to organize and file for an injunction protecting the river.

You should get to know more of the people you mistakenly term "misanthropes."  The backbone of any fight to save a particular stream and watershed  is always comprised of local plumbers, electricians, telephone repairmen and the like.  These blue-collar workers usually come to appeals board and conservation commission meetings well-prepared to quote the regs from memory when appropriate, and to work around the regs when necessary. They call in scientific consultants and legal advisors when needed, but they do the real work, for one simple, overriding reason: They need local waters on which to fish, and on which to take their kids fishing.  If local waters are ruined, the yuppie can always take a long vacation to an exotic fishery; the blue-collar worker doesn’t always have that option.  When an environmental struggle deals with large regions, international boundaries or anadromous fisheries, then wealthy professionals are indeed the leaders of such struggles: the fight to save the Atlantic salmon is a good example.  We need to work side by side with both types of people, but don’t sell short the people who’ll never own an Orvis Jeep. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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IF WE DON’T HANG TOGETHER, WE ALL HANG-TOGETHER! REGARDS MK

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