Question:

   wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

Give me a sec. gotta pull up a cushion and pour a wee dram . . . there OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.  Your second set of strips triggers the "it’s not dead and it’s escaping" response – the fly is nailed for sure on the second hit.  Executed properly, I seldom fail to get a solid hookup on the second strike. I lost two nice browns at the Blue Rock Hole – both were probably lightly hooked on the original strike as I had forgotten my own advice and did the old, "let’s fling it in the bush" strike.  If these fish had executed a stun strike, I would’ve hooked them on the outside of the mouth and lost them on the turn.  A slip strike usually doesn’t result in such a hookup – it’s slower, lighter, and moves the fly only a few inches.  If the fly is on the outside of the fish’s mouth, the odds of an external hookup are very low.  The fish isn’t spooked by the strike, rather, it’s aggression is probably heightened by the "struggles" of its "prey." Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.

        good lord.  this requires far too much patience than i have to give. yfitons wayno  (somebody hand me that royal wulff…)

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[a high and dirty snip] About high water and fish behaviour, my favourite high water story comes from one of the local fly shop owners.  When the Grand blew out a few years ago, he went up to check it out and found a flooded intersection with trout rising in the middle of it. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish.

I was using a type 6 line.  When I make the cross-current cast, I follow the line with the rod tip as far as I can to keep tension off the line.  During that portion of the drift, the line has the opportunity to sink.  In really fast water, I’ll add an upstream mend as the line hits the water.  Even a type 6 won’t get down if you have tension on the line right away. About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.   Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

Keep at it, sounds like you’re doing great as is. BTW, keep up the TRs as, thanks to my move and the kids, I probably won’t hit the water again till mid-late August.  Gotta live vicariously. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.

I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

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if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way.

Boy do I know what you are talking about! I have been trying to get used to using a slip strike off and on for about 10 years now with only occasional success. I most often just raise the rod tip when fishing for trout or bluegills and try to use the slip strike for bass.The problem is that I catch a hell of a lot more trout and bluegill than I do bass and I love to see those small fish put a bend in the rod. Old habits are sure hard to break! Big Dale

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

I also use flies with the same proportions as you described – a mid wing shank.  The nice brown hooked at Blue Rock Hole, was on a middie. They are a good compromise if the short shank flies prove to be too short.  You’re right though, the short shank flies do have better action.   The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE! The long shanked hooks are mainly used for very large species, chinook, steelhead, pike, bass, but they can work for larger resident trout.  These fish tend to engulf a fly of that size and the longer shank will usually place the tippet outside of the fish’s mouth, thereby protecting it.  I’ve kept a Rangley hook fly (rainbow smelt 1/0 8X) that was bent into a pretzel by a big buck chinook. BTW, the weamer idea seems to be working real well.  I had only one small, brown trout weamer at Penns that I lost on a rock while fooling around with the spey rod.  Moments earlier, it had hooked a very nice fish (lost, of course.)  I’ve also hooked a number of steelies with them and there’s no reason not to believe that residents won’t take a shine to them either. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE!

        wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

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Although it is the season of runoff with it’s very high muddy water, this season it has been runoff – runon. With the irrigation demands and the low snowpack, even during the highest flows, there has been enough clarity to catch fish. Water levels have been fluctuating from day to day and within a day, from somewhat high water to very high water. Generally, we have at least a month of unfishable water. This year although the high water makes for tough fishing, the river is fishable. In fact, the fishing has been pretty decent. The catching has been as varied as the flows. Some days, I’ll catch alot of small fish with nothing sizable. Other days, all the fish are good sized. One day I’ll throw streamers on a sinking line, the next day dries skittered across the surface and what’s working doesn’t seem to correlate with the flows. The best dry fly day I’ve had was during the highest flows. There has been a large yellow Mayfly coming off that I’ve never seen before probably because it usually comes off during unfishable runoff. I’ve been fishing an oversized yellow dry with a large florescent (for visibility) yellow soft hackle as a dropper. This has brought up the biggest fish I’ve been taking, bigger even than on streamers. I’ve been fishing it by casting to the edges of the fast water, letting it drift downstream and then dragging the pair across the current back to me with the dry bouncing on the surface. Virtually all of the fish have taken the dragging flies. Most have taken the soft hackle but I’ve gotten a number of savage takes on the dry. I usually miss the hookup but several of them took the emerger on the next few casts. What has been surprising to me is that the fish are coming up through several feet of strong current and heavily stained water for the flies. I think the motion may be an aid to them in seeing the flies. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish. Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

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Question:

I’m gonna avoid the rush and start hating you now! I Love the north country and wish I could get back there. Any room in your luggage for me?? Enjoy! Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay guys — I’m all tricked out with Bob R2’s Secret Weapons and am headed to the great white north to slug it out with the toothy critters.  Am also packing a fly rod and hope to get in a few rounds with Arctic Grayling.  As I’ve never caught a Grayling, I really have no idea what size to expect.  My goal for Northern Pike seven pound lake trout is a baby compared to some of the ones caught from these waters (Northern Alberta and Southern NWT), so maybe I’ll hook into a 30 pounder. Hope all you guys catch a bunch of bass while I’m away and I get to read all about it when I return.  See you in late July! —– Family, Friends, Fishing Rob Storm http://www.stormsrestaurants.com

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Hey Rob, On your way north, stop and pick me up…ok?  Go gettum tiger and remember, those aren’t bass you’re catching so don’t try to lip them.  :) —

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Good luck, Rob. We are with you in spirit at least. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay guys — I’m all tricked out with Bob R2’s Secret Weapons and am headed to the great white north to slug it out with the toothy critters.  Am also packing a fly rod and hope to get in a few rounds with Arctic Grayling.  As I’ve never caught a Grayling, I really have no idea what size to expect.  My goal for Northern Pike seven pound lake trout is a baby compared to some of the ones caught from these waters (Northern Alberta and Southern NWT), so maybe I’ll hook into a 30 pounder. Hope all you guys catch a bunch of bass while I’m away and I get to read all about it when I return.  See you in late July! —– Family, Friends, Fishing Rob Storm http://www.stormsrestaurants.com

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Okay guys — I’m all tricked out with Bob R2’s Secret Weapons and am headed to the great white north to slug it out with the toothy critters.  Am also packing a fly rod and hope to get in a few rounds with Arctic Grayling.  As I’ve never caught a Grayling, I really have no idea what size to expect.  My goal for Northern Pike pound lake trout is a baby compared to some of the ones caught from these waters (Northern Alberta and Southern NWT), so maybe I’ll hook into a 30 pounder.   Hope all you guys catch a bunch of bass while I’m away and I get to read all about it when I return.  See you in late July! —– Family, Friends, Fishing Rob Storm http://www.stormsrestaurants.com

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Have a great trip Rob.  If your wife packed your clothes, check your tackle box for your underwear. — Consider Him

| Okay guys — | I’m all tricked out with Bob R2’s Secret Weapons and am headed to the great | white north to slug it out with the toothy critters.  Am also packing a fly rod | and hope to get in a few rounds with Arctic Grayling.  As I’ve never caught a | Grayling, I really have no idea what size to expect.  My goal for Northern Pike seven | pound lake trout is a baby compared to some of the ones caught from these | waters (Northern Alberta and Southern NWT), so maybe I’ll hook into a 30 | pounder. | | Hope all you guys catch a bunch of bass while I’m away and I get to read all | about it when I return.  See you in late July! | —– | Family, Friends, Fishing | Rob Storm | http://www.stormsrestaurants.com

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Question:

Remember to blow and not suck.   Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like to give them a little enema with a SuperStraw as well…

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You have never tried a black pudding sausage fried in bacon fat then…….it is delicious although basically a blood sausage and as Yorkshire as Mike Connor, although I know which I’d prefer to eat!!! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got into fishing years ago, spinning and baitcasting, until I discovered the True Faith. But getting back to when, I started fishing because I like cooking and eating the stuff. Now, there is much more to it for me, and I have become very socially correct about it and C&R minded, although I will smartly bop a fish on the head, here and there, for lunch or dinner. I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments? Comments on what?  The fish dies, the blood get pumped out of the body.  Don’t know if the fish is better tasting though.  As to whether it is right or wrong to do this, it’s up to you and your personal sense of morality. Later,      - Ken it’s very common for people to cut the gills out or just slice the gills to bleed the fish out, especially with white-meated fish.  it absolutely improves the flavor and fileting the fish is considerably less messy. if you ever go bottomfishing in the northwest, you’ll see how common this is, especially with rockfish, lingcod, and halibut.  no different than bleeding out pigs, cows, etc.  blood doesn’t taste good, the meat does <G as for the morality of it, i’ll let people decide that on their own… but you can kill it quickly and still bleed it.  a fish’s heart usually keeps beating after it dies, so it will still bleed out the fish.  as well as letting it bleed to death alive, i don’t know. chris

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Mike you brought back memories.  Mum used to always save the dripping from the roast and after it had congealed, I’d spread it on bread. Had lots of suet pudding during the winter, usually served up with dollops of jam.  Wonder I have any functioning arteries left.

That reminds me of my first of many trips to Germany: the first restaurant I was taken to by my business hosts provided a basket of bread along with a small crock filled with an opaque solid that vaguely resembled butter. Not knowing any better I spread a goodly amount of the stuff onto a piece of the bread, popped it into my mouth and… Ugh! Turned out to be rendered pork fat, which coated everything it contacted from stem to stern. For the sake of diplomacy and avoiding an international incident ;^) I gagged it down without alarming my hosts. I love a good piece of pork as well as the next guy, but it took me a few days and a whole lot of wine and beer to get that coating and the taste thereof out of my system… /daytripper (I left there just a tad more wiser than I arrived)

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[snipped my own post] /daytripper (I left there just a tad more wiser than I arrived)

Ooops! Before rw and the Roffian Grammar Police take me to task – I’ll flagellate myself over the "more wiser" construct. Bad engineer! (whack!)  Bad BAD engineer! (whack! whack!) /daytripper (we now return you to a thread run amuck! ;^)

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Our complimentary breakfast in London often included eggs fried "sunny side up" in mutton fat.  It must have been an acquired taste, which I never did acquire. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have never tried a black pudding sausage fried in bacon fat then…….it is delicious although basically a blood sausage and as Yorkshire as Mike Connor, although I know which I’d prefer to eat!!! David

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I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments?

Sounds like "Hellraiser Goes Fishing".  There is no fish easier to clean than a trout.  Catch it, rap it on the head (if you do it rights, the little rascal just sort of vibrates), stick your knife in its anus (butthole), zip up to the gills and then cut through above them, put your index finger through the opening between the cut and above the gills and pull.  If you do it right, the gills, fins, and guts zip right out.  Fling this up into the woods and NOT BACK IN THE STREAM.  You will throw it where you have been releasing the suckers.  Now clean out all of the blood in the sack running along the backbone and put it into the wet Arctic Creel with some grass and you have a nice fish to eat later (or save it for a PETA rally). I always practice C&R unless I eat the fish. I wonder if Ms.Birkholm pulls the wings off of flies? DP aka Big Chief

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From whatever point of view, it is better to stun a fish with a sharp blow to the head before subjecting it to any further operations. The blow may kill it outright, and usually does when done properly, but at least the fish will at the worst asphyxiate while unconscious, and not be subjected to unnecessary stress. The way to remove blood from a fish is to clean it as quickly as possible after capture, and not let it bleed to death after ripping its gills out. I do not agree with the method advocated by Ms. Birkholm in her article.  I find it unnecessarily brutal, and superfluous. The reason given that the flesh then tastes better is unlikely to be the case.  The reason for many freshly caught fish not tasting so good immediately is not because of blood tainting, but because of the build-up of muscle poisons induced by the stress of the fight.  Cleaning the fish correctly and storing it in a cool place for a while before preparation will reduce the amount of poison build up, especially in salmonids. I can see no good reason for mutilating living fish unnecessarily, and many for not doing so. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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it’s very common for people to cut the gills out or just slice the gills to bleed the fish out, especially with white-meated fish.  it absolutely improves the flavor and fileting the fish is considerably less messy. if you ever go bottomfishing in the northwest, you’ll see how common this is, especially with rockfish, lingcod, and halibut.  no different than bleeding out pigs, cows, etc.  blood doesn’t taste good, the meat does <G

Completely aside.  I actually went bottomfishing a few months back (it was a X-mas present from last year).  They didn’t cut the gills or bleed the fish.  All they did was once you reeled it up, the guide snipped it off and tossed it in a laundry basket.  I have a feeling that they would get quite a kick out of all this worrying about the fish’s feelings stuff. They still tasted quite good FWIW.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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I used to work on a salmon farm off the coast of Maine.  The way the fish were slaughtered was to net them and fill a vat that was a bout four feet cubed in size, with the netted fish.  When the level of squirming, thrashing fish would reach the top of the vat, a hose was put in the tank that pumped CO2 gas in.  That made the fish pass out and become more manageable.  From there they were sent down a chute where a guy would cut their gills and put them on ice. So now you all know how humanely fish killing is done commercially. BTW, the seals that swam too close to the floating fish cages were simply dispatched with a rifle shot to the head. Pete C

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You could always put a 45 to the head.    Boom!    :-)

Overkill Vern.  .22 short should do nicely for most trout.  The occasional behemoth might require .38 special, but the truly large bore and magnum loads should be reserved for the more dangerous and hard to kill species like pike or musky.        :)

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I like to give them a little enema with a SuperStraw as well… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it.

Iron is good for you (within limits).  I’ve never had problems with taste though I too have heard that bleeding the fish helps.  Dumping fish guts in the woods or water in Michigan is illegal so as much as I would like to clean the fish right away, I just stick a knife in the head and try to get the fish on ice as soon as possible.  Meanwhile I just keep the dead fish in the river if I am far away from my vehicle.  The rock cod I caught from a party boat off the California coast were just dumped in a burlap sack (no laundry baskets). Many hours later I ate some of them raw and they tasted great.  No blood letting required.  YMMV. Mu

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: yeh, those large party boats would laugh their asses off over "fish : feelings"… man, i can just picture it…lol.  if the anti-c&r, harvest : based fly guys who worry about shit like that actually saw what happens : in saltwater, i think it would actually make them cry….lol.  you mean Sorry Chris, but if you look at who’s posted in this thread about the "feelings" of a fish, it’s not us "anti-c&r" guys. I’ve often said that I’ll stringer fish and drag ‘em around live to keep them fresher, and I wouldn’t be able to count the number of walleye and salmon I’ve thrown on ice alive and kickin’. But remember, this is done for food, for harvest.

you don’t cut the gills and release them, how barbaric <G.  btw, mike conner who doesn’t believe c&r is right, although not a vocal as you and t-bone was posting on this thread about how brutal the practice of slicing the gills was.  my apologies to you for not adding that you were not included in my humorous picture.  and i guess many of the c&r guys would be offended too, and you probably wouldn’t buy anything from orvis <G… although i hear their 24K priests really knock fish out, and for only $250 no less, worth every penny <G  the orvis fish boxes use solar technology to keep fish cool, and come with a with a surgical device you attach to the fish’s gills that pumps all the blood out overboard <G. at only $2500, it should be on everyone’s boat <G chris

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I got into fishing years ago, spinning and baitcasting, until I discovered the True Faith. But getting back to when, I started fishing because I like cooking and eating the stuff. Now, there is much more to it for me, and I have become very socially correct about it and C&R minded, although I will smartly bop a fish on the head, here and there, for lunch or dinner. I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments?

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Sounds like a very humane humane way to kill a fish,  just like having your lungs ripped out while you bleed to death. Personally I would prefer a rap on the head. Ernie Lawrence Rottersman wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgeable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments?

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Would you rather be killed by having your skull crushed or having your lungs ripped out?

If your brain was the size of a fish’s would you care? This thread is going to go silly in a hurry. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I got into fishing years ago, spinning and baitcasting, until I discovered the True Faith. But getting back to when, I started fishing because I like cooking and eating the stuff. Now, there is much more to it for me, and I have become very socially correct about it and C&R minded, although I will smartly bop a fish on the head, here and there, for lunch or dinner. I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments?

Comments on what?  The fish dies, the blood get pumped out of the body.  Don’t know if the fish is better tasting though.  As to whether it is right or wrong to do this, it’s up to you and your personal sense of morality. Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got into fishing years ago, spinning and baitcasting, until I discovered the True Faith. But getting back to when, I started fishing because I like cooking and eating the stuff. Now, there is much more to it for me, and I have become very socially correct about it and C&R minded, although I will smartly bop a fish on the head, here and there, for lunch or dinner. I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments?

Would you rather be killed by having your skull crushed or having your lungs ripped out? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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You could always put a 45 to the head.    Boom!    :-) Vern

actually legal to do for halibut fishing <G chris

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You could always put a 45 to the head.    Boom!    :-) Vern

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got into fishing years ago, spinning and baitcasting, until I discovered the True Faith. But getting back to when, I started fishing because I like cooking and eating the stuff. Now, there is much more to it for me, and I have become very socially correct about it and C&R minded, although I will smartly bop a fish on the head, here and there, for lunch or dinner. I have always thought this was the only way to humanely kill a fish until this morning when I read a piece by Deanna Birkholm, co-founder of a very enjoyable website, Fly Anglers Online. She advises removing the gills of the fish. The fish dies, she writes, but it’s heart keeps pumping, so the blood is evacuated from the body and the fish is better tasting because of it. I’m not challenging Ms. Birkholm; she sounds very knowledgable; but I never heard this one before. Any comments? Comments on what?  The fish dies, the blood get pumped out of the body.  Don’t know if the fish is better tasting though.  As to whether it is right or wrong to do this, it’s up to you and your personal sense of morality. Later,      - Ken

it’s very common for people to cut the gills out or just slice the gills to bleed the fish out, especially with white-meated fish.  it absolutely improves the flavor and fileting the fish is considerably less messy. if you ever go bottomfishing in the northwest, you’ll see how common this is, especially with rockfish, lingcod, and halibut.  no different than bleeding out pigs, cows, etc.  blood doesn’t taste good, the meat does <G as for the morality of it, i’ll let people decide that on their own… but you can kill it quickly and still bleed it.  a fish’s heart usually keeps beating after it dies, so it will still bleed out the fish.  as well as letting it bleed to death alive, i don’t know. chris

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you don’t cut the gills and release them, how barbaric <G.  btw, mike conner who doesn’t believe c&r is right, although not a vocal as you and t-bone was posting on this thread about how brutal the practice of slicing the gills was.

Not strictly true, I do not like it and I do not do it as I think it is not right for me.  I do not presume to tell anybody else how he or she should fish, this is a matter of personal ethics, I will offer my opinion if asked, that is all. Damaging a living animal unnecessarily also does not seem right to me. Quoting the barbarous practices common in commercial fishing and other enterprises in no way justifies anybody else doing it. TL MC

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God knows where this tread is going? Because I don’t, and I was the one who started it. I was not going after the commercial fishing industry, although I think it and the rest of the food industry, along with the companies that make sugared water, grow tobacco, and dispense useless, sometimes harmful drugs have a lot to be ashamed of. I was just speaking personally; I’m not squimish when it comes to killing and preparing food, although I just as soon not hear a lobster scratching the sides of the pot as he’s steamed/boiled to death. Or watch a fish choke to death. Something wrong about that? Not he-man enough for some of you in this newsgroup? And lucky Vern who did not suggest putting the gun to my head because I have already laughed it off reading his and Wolfgang’s posts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could always put a 45 to the head.    Boom!    :-) Overkill Vern.  .22 short should do nicely for most trout.  The occasional behemoth might require .38 special, but the truly large bore and magnum loads should be reserved for the more dangerous and hard to kill species like pike or musky.        :)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s very common for people to cut the gills out or just slice the gills to bleed the fish out, especially with white-meated fish.  it absolutely improves the flavor and fileting the fish is considerably less messy. if you ever go bottomfishing in the northwest, you’ll see how common this is, especially with rockfish, lingcod, and halibut.  no different than bleeding out pigs, cows, etc.  blood doesn’t taste good, the meat does <G Completely aside.  I actually went bottomfishing a few months back (it was a X-mas present from last year).  They didn’t cut the gills or bleed the fish.  All they did was once you reeled it up, the guide snipped it off and tossed it in a laundry basket.  I have a feeling that they would get quite a kick out of all this worrying about the fish’s feelings stuff. They still tasted quite good FWIW.      - Ken

yeh, those large party boats would laugh their asses off over "fish feelings"… man, i can just picture it…lol.  if the anti-c&r, harvest based fly guys who worry about shit like that actually saw what happens in saltwater, i think it would actually make them cry….lol.  you mean you let those poor fish just die in a laundry basket?  you must kill them with a $30 orvis priest, in an orvis laundry basket no less…lol glad you had a good time fishing bottomfish, one of my favorite fisheries, especially on the fly. i’m actually surprised they didn’t bleed your fish.  but they are great eating, no question. chris

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Question:

Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

I agree with the gentleman previous toi this thread. When you cast heavy line of any kind (above 7) the idea is to false cast NEVER, well maybe once if you have to. On the Roannoke in NC casting for those monster sex crazed stripers, I cast a seven wt with a fast sinker to get it down in the seams that would whip a weighted fly all over. The technique is to find  a pocket cast to the side, draw the line to the suface with a slow backcast, then just before the fly reaches the suface, load the rod by the surface tension of the water. even with this powerful back cast-not by the speed of it, but by loading the rod, you get the line in the air. Make your foreward cast count-and place your fly. If you back cast here, your line will drop,it s just too heavy. If you muff the cast, Start from the begining or suffer frustration. Good luck and tight lines! Thanks to Lefty for this tip, he deserves the credit. Steve

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Leader length of 3 or 4 feet work well for me. Weight the nymph as you see appropriate. Most cases an unweighted nymph is best. Some flies seem to benefit from weight of some sort. Casting sink tips requires a more carefull, slower stroke, don’t hold too much line in the air and keep false casting to a minimum. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

Response:

Jean, Try the AirFlo Fast Sink or Intermediate Sink leaders.  They cast extremely well and the Fast Sink really takes the fly down.  I have been using one this week to cast small Clousers to shad in the Rappahannock and it is working beautifully.  I use a heavier, stiffer (regular monofilament) tippet and keep it to under 3 feet.  The AirFlo leader comes in a 10 foot length for Fast Sink.  If they have the 5 foot model out now it might be a good bet depending on where and what you are fishing.  Another handy thing is they handshake to a line loop and a surgeon’s knot on one end of the tippet. Makes swapping between floating and sinking a matter of seconds and changing tippets the same. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

Response:

Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

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Question:

Watched the temp go up to 50 degrees today.  Out to the back porch and cleaned my fly line, new leader, a couple of casts into the snow in my yard, and smoked an LGC Corona Gorda.  Sunday on to the Malad River for some march(spring) fishing!!  God, it’s great to see the sun shine and the snow start to melt.  And yes it was a good cigar! Doug

        well, ol doug, it was just about the same temp here in the old north state, several degrees in latitude to your south; but the feelings were just the same.  the phoenix.  here we go again, by god.         wayne harrison

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Watched the temp go up to 50 degrees today.  Out to the back porch and cleaned my fly line, new leader, a couple of casts into the snow in my yard, and smoked an LGC Corona Gorda.  Sunday on to the Malad River for some march(spring) fishing!!  God, it’s great to see the sun shine and the snow start to melt.  And yes it was a good cigar! Doug — Doug & Tammy Stephens Bear Lake Valley, Idaho

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Question:

 3.  I have always presumed that the two air bladders which provide a back support on my floatube are ample to at least keep me afloat.   Is this a naive assumption.

It is more likely you will flip upside down and drown than lose all three air bladders. Ernie Harrison

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3.  I have always presumed that the two air bladders which provide a back support on my floatube are ample to at least keep me afloat.  Is this a naive assumption.

I think that the assumption is correct BUT: These tubes are not attached to your body.  That is you have to make sure you can hold on to them one way or another. Maybe more critical is hypo thermia.  If your main flotation fails, the chances are that you are going to get wet.  Depending on conditions and time immersed, this can lead to great trouble. William Buchman

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I already posted this once, but got no responses.  So I’m going to try once more to see if I can get some answers.  If you remember responding to my first post, let me know by e-mail.  This will let me know that for some reason, I am not seeing all of the messages posted to this board.  Thanks                                                            -dnc- Some of the recent posts on float tube and wader safety have really opened my eyes to the issue.  Thanks to all for the fair warning.  But now I have more questions. 1.  The ‘Sea Hunt’ solution:  Remember when scuba diver Mike (Lloyd Bridges) used to save the day with one of those little, autoinflatable ‘balloons’ he kept handy?  Do those devices still exist.  Seems like the perfect solution; non bulky, yet there when you really need it.  Anyone have any knowledge on such devices and how well they work, etc. 2.  If I were to tip over backwards in my floatube as I was exiting the water, it seems like the right thing to do would be to (a) disengage the quick release on the strap that connects the seat to the tube (b) reach up and push the tube away as I slide my feet out of the tube. i.e. I come out of the tube the same way I usually do (except for the fact that I’m upside down).  This seems like the common sense way to do it, but is it the optimal solution when you are in very shallow water (say, just deep enough so you can’t use your arms to push your head above water).   3.  I have always presumed that the two air bladders which provide a back support on my floatube are ample to at least keep me afloat.  Is this a naive assumption. 4.  I forgot, if you do fall into a strong current, you try to keep your feet pointed downstream: correct?  Seems like you have the double problem of keeping your head away from rocks and also trying to keep water out of your waders.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I already posted this once, but got no responses.  So I’m going to try once more to see if I can get some answers.  If you remember responding to my first post, let me know by e-mail.  This will let me know that for some reason, I am not seeing all of the messages posted to this board.  Thanks                                                            -dnc- Some of the recent posts on float tube and wader safety have really opened my eyes to the issue.  Thanks to all for the fair warning.  But now I have more questions. 1.  The ‘Sea Hunt’ solution:  Remember when scuba diver Mike (Lloyd Bridges) used to save the day with one of those little, autoinflatable ‘balloons’ he kept handy?  Do those devices still exist.  Seems like the perfect solution; non bulky, yet there when you really need it.  Anyone have any knowledge on such devices and how well they work, etc. 2.  If I were to tip over backwards in my floatube as I was exiting the water, it seems like the right thing to do would be to (a) disengage the quick release on the strap that connects the seat to the tube (b) reach up and push the tube away as I slide my feet out of the tube. i.e. I come out of the tube the same way I usually do (except for the fact that I’m upside down).  This seems like the common sense way to do it, but is it the optimal solution when you are in very shallow water (say, just deep enough

You can now get CG approved inflatable PFD’s. You should always wear a PFD in your tube. (some places it’s the law) You should ALWAYS wear a belt around the ouside of your waders high enough to prevent water from spilling into them & regulate the amount you take in. Be Safe!! Bill D.  so you can’t use your arms to push your head above water). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3.  I have always presumed that the two air bladders which provide a back support on my floatube are ample to at least keep me afloat.  Is this a naive assumption. 4.  I forgot, if you do fall into a strong current, you try to keep your feet pointed downstream: correct?  Seems like you have the double problem of keeping your head away from rocks and also trying to keep water out of your waders.

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Question:

Asa rule, the weather there is really crummy during that time of year. The crystal clear waters and warm weather that all of us are sold on is about three months away. This period is right during their Winter-Spring transition. If you are lucky, though, you might be able to pick up a small black marlin. I was there last august specifically for that, but we got blown out. For more info on that fishing, contact Capt. Craig "Sparrow" Denham at 079 453 217 which is his phone and fax. For more information on General fishing, contact Carol North at Cairns Reef Charter Services at 070 31 4742 ph. or 070 31 4610 fax. Let me know if you need anymore information. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  The Iast week in August my wife and I are going to Austrailia  and we will be spending 5 days cruising around the Great Barrier Reef and I will be doing a lot of fly fishing. I would like to know if anyone could give me some info on the type of fish I can expect to catch and what patterns will be good for this area. Thanks Bill.

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 The Iast week in August my wife and I are going to Austrailia  and we will be spending 5 days cruising around the Great Barrier Reef and I will be doing a lot of fly fishing. I would like to know if anyone could give me some info on the type of fish I can expect to catch and what patterns will be good for this area. Thanks Bill.

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Question:

Hey all you whaco thread spinners, listen up.  Tired of all the crap floating around in this news group? Well so am I!   Lets begin the FlyTiers Corner.  It will be dedicated to those of us who are equally as enthused, maybe more, about our tying as our fishing.   It appears that a Fly Tying NG is not the answer at this time.  There should be enough interest to make FTC a success. One really great thing about the angling aspect of this sport is the willingness of most participants to share their knowledge and skills.  I find that to be more so in the tying end. Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE. Hi-Vis Wing Material, Manufacturer – L&L Products – I first saw this stuff in National Feather Craft catalog several years and sent for a few bags. It is available in just about every imaginable color but I find that most of my work is with white, light dun and med. dun.  I tie hundreds of dz of parachutes and mayfly spinners per year and this material wonderful.  It is very light in weight, holds its color, has just the right stiffness, and is very visible.  Try it on a Adams Para and you will never go back to cafl body. Yippi tie one on, AuSable1

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Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE.

OK. I have created a website for flytyers entitled "WWW Fly Tyer". It is not fully finished, but I feel there is enough content there to at least warrant a look. Check back as it will continue to improve from here. http://www.ns.net/~barnard Enjoy…Alan. PS – Don’t forget to sign the guestbook!   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer:   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all you whaco thread spinners, listen up.  Tired of all the crap floating around in this news group? Well so am I!   Lets begin the FlyTiers Corner.  It will be dedicated to those of us who are equally as enthused, maybe more, about our tying as our fishing.   It appears that a Fly Tying NG is not the answer at this time.  There should be enough interest to make FTC a success. One really great thing about the angling aspect of this sport is the willingness of most participants to share their knowledge and skills.  I find that to be more so in the tying end. Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE. Hi-Vis Wing Material, Manufacturer – L&L Products – I first saw this stuff in National Feather Craft catalog several years and sent for a few bags. It is available in just about every imaginable color but I find that most of my work is with white, light dun and med. dun.  I tie hundreds of dz of parachutes and mayfly spinners per year and this material wonderful.  It is very light in weight, holds its color, has just the right stiffness, and is very visible.  Try it on a Adams Para and you will never go back to cafl body. Yippi tie one on, AuSable1

Shut-up, form your new group & get out Life’s a fish, then you fry…..                      …     .—.     _…                  (  _. _.-’                   ____          ~~’                       …-’

Question:

I’m sure Jason will remember you and that fish for the rest of his life. After all the "political" discussions on this group, your post came through loud and clear. Thanks for sharing it with us. Bob

Response:

John, Thanks for the story.  We can all take lessons from it.

Response:

It was damned quiet off Kennebunkport yesterday morning. Rain fell steadily and large banks of fog rolled off Mount Agamenticus to the SW, as well as off Cape Porpoise to the North. The VHF was silent. No boats in sight anywhere. 2 miles out my 17′ Invader drifted slowly as I sent cast after cast out in search of the blues. They weren’t there either. I motored in towards Walker’s Point, casting towards the rocks, hoping for that big migratating cow striper. She wasn’t there either. Mid morning the sun broke through, the boats came out and I knew it was time to leave. I can never stop fishing, so after docking I started making roll casts off the swim platform. On the first of these I saw a striper come out from under the dock opposite me and take the small deceiver. It was a small one, but fun for sure. I caught a motion from the corner of my eye and turned to see Jason, the 8 year old from the slip next door. Jason, like me, is possessed by fish. Every time I go to the marina he’s there, looking into the depths for a glimpse of a striper or catching sand eels or crabs. The kid loves fish. One arm was in a cast, one of those accidents we all have. The other held a sandwich. Another roll casts produced another fish, this one felt considerably larger, and I passed the rod to Jason. He fought the fish well for a kid with a cast and a sandwich, but a last minute head shake gave the first round to the stripers. It was enough,though, to make him an instant addict. "Finish your sandwich, then pick out the fly that will get your first striper" I told him. He picked a 2/0 white and blue deceiver and held it out to me confidently. It didn’t take many casts before his fly hooked into a good schoolie. I reeled quickly to get the fish on the reel, then jammed the fighting butt between the buckles on his life vets, propped his encasted hand on the rod blank and put his good hand on the reel. A small crowd formed to cheer him on as the schoolie darted and dove. Finally we saw leader, and I grabbed it and pulled his prize out. He held it briefly, then we released it and it swam back under the dock as the crowd cheered. We didn’t catch any more fish, as the water dropped below 2′, but the kid was airborne all day. He sorted my flies into two piles, good ones and bad ones. An instant fly connoisseur, he placed most of my creations in the bad pile :- "I bet this one would work on mackeral" he said, picking out a tiny #4 blonde type pattern. We spent the afternoon talking of fish and fishing, and after washing the boat down and heading for my truck I realized that I’d finally found something more fun that fishing. As I headed toward the driveway Dan, the dockmaster, called out to me. He too is a fly fisherman, and watched the day’s events. "That was fun wasn’t it ?" he asked, and I told him yeah it was great. "Could it be that he reminds you of someone you know ?" he winked. I went home and dug up my lighter 8 weight, looking forward to the casting lessons soon to come.                                                 jc

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Question:

It’s Friday at 3+ pm on th ewest coast and I just finished reading all my mail and catching up my newsgroups. I’m submitting this post because of an alarming trend I’ve noticed lately….you know, these 3 groups (alt.fishing, rec.outdoors.fishing, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly) seem to get POSTED TO MORE ON THE WEEKENDS than any of the others I’m involved with! I remember my Dad telling me when I was a kid "the reason you don’t catch any fish is your’re too busy fartin’ around instead of fishin’" Well ladies and gents, the same applies to the rest of you out there..fish at least for a coupla’ hours this weekend or teach some kid how to cast or tie a fly, tie a clinch, blood or surgeon’s knot or cast with a bait casting reel….BUT STAY OFF THE NET….the holes are too big, and the fish SLIPP rihght through…. My thoughts, I’m going to the Delta tonight for cats..wish me luck! Larry  #:)#

Response:

I had a boss once who was fond of saying you don’t catch any fish unless you have a line in the water.  The older I get, the wiser he sounds.

Response:

Larry!  I  thought you were coming up to Chico to catch some shad this weekend!  I’ve went out to the river Thursday  and  Friday nights to look for you — no Larry. Oh well.  Nothing lost.  Mike only caught 20 something shad on Thursday night, while I only caught in the teens… Friday was slower — I only caught 4 shad in the 45 minutes before darkness fell.  Some damned striper fisherman was hogging my hotspot fishing for them dumb critters, so I didn’t get as many  shad as I could have. He managed to catch a  13 inch rainbow on a striper hook with a piece of anchovy.  But no stripers.  Weirdest thing I ever saw.  (Well, not quite.) — Jim McElroy Calif. State Univ., Chico

Response:

I had a boss once who was fond of saying you don’t catch any fish unless you have a line in the water.  The older I get, the wiser he sounds.

He sounds pretty stupid to me.  You better have a lure or a hook and bait out there too.   Been plenty of times when all I had was a line in  the water and I never got a fish, not once. — Jim McElroy Calif. State Univ., Chico

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