Question:

Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^)

Timothy Juvenal

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^) Timothy Juvenal

Great book. G.Cleveland

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request.

….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 8^) Timothy Juvenal

Response:

Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.

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Count a second here.  Severe adversion of midnight dips.  2 for 3!!! Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.

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"Chris Richer"  wrote… Count a second here.  Severe adversion of midnight dips.  2 for 3!!!

I really must object to this implication that the fair sex is not clever enough to put the seat down when neccasary.  I always leave the seat up, and have yet to fail to put it down when I’ve needed it in that postion.  I refuse to believe that the ladies are incapable of making the same judgement call. No, gentlemen, it’s not really about women being prone to falling into the toilet.  They’re no more likely to fall in than you or I, and in fact, are probably less likely.  No, this is nothing more than a convienient opportunity to tell you what to do, and one of the few instances when a woman is actually successful at that endeavor. We must be strong, men!  We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women!  We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up!   For the dignity of all mankind! Timothy Juvenal

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"Valkyrie"  wrote … ….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?

Yes, I admit it would be hard to be strong under circumstances as extreme as those.  Especially if she isn’t always asking silly questions like "What’s *wrong* with you?!", and she can supply a good answer to a simple question like"What’s the big deal?", and she doesn’t decide that she doesn’t want to date men anymore after just a few dates, and all that other silly stuff women can be prone to. Timothy Juvenal

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We must be strong, men!  We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women!  We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up!   For the dignity of all mankind!

I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better.  It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it. Also negates the argument over falling in.  You can beat them at their own game.  :-)      - Ken

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….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?

And a masseuse. Don’t forget that. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better.  It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it.

I use the same argument in reverse. What if the dogs get thirsty? It works for me, and it works for them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Stand at the greeting card rack checking out all the romance cards.  Buy one and let her see you pay for it.  When you’re alone, throw it away. George Gehrke

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….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? And a masseuse. Don’t forget that.

   Shoot, I only got two out of the four.               Charlie,               who ties her flies AND leaves the seat down

Response:

"rw"  wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty?

So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday!  Do I get a free drink?"  And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!" Timothy Juvenal

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"rw"  wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty? So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday!  Do I get a free drink?"  And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!"

T’ain’t nothin’ til ya hear about how RW’s dog mistook a nude sun-worshipper for a walking sausage factory. Mu

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Glad to see that this appetizing (if OT) title has had so many bites . . . Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

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Question:

Some of the fly shops in MA offer casting classes/lessons directly, or offer arrangements with private concerns (Orvis being one). But this late in the season might make for slim pickings. I’d start working through the list of local fly shops and ask if they have anything available. Try American Angler in Salem, The Lower Forty in Worcester, Stoddards in Boston, etc. /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone know of any Fly Fishing Training schools or whatever in the Massachusetts area? Where in MA do you live? You might be better off to join a club and take advantage of their resources. I don’t know of any "schools" in MA, but there are private instructors. Orvis runs schools in Manchester, VT. see www.orvis.com George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Anyone know of any Fly Fishing Training schools or whatever in the Massachusetts area? Been doing a lot of other fishing but am eager to learn fly fishing… Any guidance would be appreciated. I know its coming to the end of the season, but I’ll have all winter to practice. But thats my opinion, I may be wrong.              -dennis miller

Response:

Anyone know of any Fly Fishing Training schools or whatever in the Massachusetts area?

Where in MA do you live? You might be better off to join a club and take advantage of their resources. I don’t know of any "schools" in MA, but there are private instructors. Orvis runs schools in Manchester, VT. see www.orvis.com George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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There is an excellent fly-tying course at http://www.flyanglersonline.com TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are sub-par….but you have to have decided you want to tie and be getting ‘into’ it before you have the knowledge that the things ‘are’ sub par. there are different grades of kits, and you usually get a vidoe or book or two to help you get started….. To a person who knows they want to tie…..piecemeal…..to the curious or don’t forget the local groups like the one you missed…..there are usually more than just Trout Unlimited….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey. If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie. gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

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If it is a full coat of a reasonable ( light) colour, consider cutting it up and dyeing it. Mink makes excellent dubbing, and the guard hairs ( these are the longer hairs )  may be used for hair-wings etc.  Cut into strips they make excellent zonker patterns etc. It might however be a good idea to try selling the coat as it is, you may find that the proceeds will keep you in fly-dressing materials for a long time. By the way, mink skins are cheap and easy to come by, any furrier will give you a bundle of them for next to nothing, mink coats seldom are ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC

I printed your tool list and will take it shopping.  Makes sense to buy the correct amount of the right material.  Now I have to decide what to do with this full length mink coat.  I have had it for years and my new bride doesn’t want it.  She has already released it for tying material.  Maybe eel or leach patterns with mink strips?  Maybe I can make up a couple of mink reel pouches! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Decide what you want to tie, look up the materials necessary. Buy these. Buy a Thompson pro vice, a good pair of scissors, a ceramic bobbin holder and a pair of medium hackle pliers.  A needle glued into a piece of dowel with epoxy, makes a good dubbing needle, and is also used for applying varnish ( head cement) to flies.  Start with simple flies. There are some very good kits on the market, but these are invariably quite expensive, and will contain stuff you do not need. Also the amount of certain materials is usually less than you need for a couple of dozen flies. Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

The Art of Fly Tying CD-ROM is only $20 these days (www.feather-craft.com).  You don’t need a kit.  Thompson Pro is a good beginner’s vise and will last a long time.  Many experienced tiers still use theirs.  You have fished for a year now so should have a good idea of what flies you commonly use.  Buy the materials you need for those flies and you will be in good shape.  Start with simple flies like wooly buggers or hare’s ear nymphs.  Do you trust the guys at the local fly shop?  They should be able to get you pointed in the right direction. Mu Mu

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 Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name.

Cabela’s has them, as well as most fly shops. — Charlie…

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Oh BTW I’ve found it very handy to also have a pair with a serrated edged for tougher stuff.  Mine are cheaper than my "fine" ones and work fine. YMMV — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.

Joe, I’m getting lots of good advice here and am leaning toward buying a kit just because I really don’t have anyplace closeby to buy it peice by peice and I can order one from somewhere like Orvis or Cabela’s. What would you consider to be a good kit and not a "cheapo" kit? I also really like the idea of the CD and am going to see if I can find it somewhere. Tim

Response:

At least one pair of fine top quality scissors is more or  less essential for fine work on the flies themselves.  For everything else normal scissors will do. Keep your fine scissors only for fine work, and do not cut any rough materials or wire with them, and they will last a long time. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have a couple pair of Wiss scissors, a larger one I use for sewing projects and a small one I’ve used for fly tying for many years.  Very high quality at a reasonable price.

Response:

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

You find those at medical supply/pharmacy houses, fly tying material shops, hardware stores, or fabric shops?  Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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A pharmaceutical fly shop?…..bet he’s got leaves from bushes to chew on to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F. I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

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We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job?

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself. Regards, Jeff

Response:

….What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there…..

I have no idea of what is offered with kits Wayne, and I suppose that there is a wide variety of types and quality sold in fly shops.  What really matters is that they have fine points, are well made of quality material, and that they fit your fingers.  The most convenient place to look for scissors that will meet these criteria is a fabric shop.  Sewers use a variety of scissors and they come in all sizes.  If you’re looking for something more specialized, your local veterinarian or a friend who works at a hospital can turn you on to a bewildering array.

Response:

Tim,      I have recently taught myself to tie.  I bought a kit, and I’m not upset that I did.  It gave me a vise, scissors, bobbin, threader, hooks and some materials.  Granted, this stuff isn’t the greatest quality but it got me started.  The next thing I did was purchase a book by Skip Morris, Fly Tying made Clear and Simple.  This book is great.  It can teach anyone to tie.  Now that I am better I am ready to upgrade my vise, but the one from the kit has done just fine.  When you catch your first fish on a fly you tied yourself, it is all worth it! I highly recommend the Skip Morris book, it has very thorough step by step instructions and great pictures for each step.  It is also spiral bound, so that it stays open easily.  What I did was bought the book, picked the first few patterns, went to my fly shop and bought the things I needed to tie those. Came home and worked on those few patterns, when I got them down, I  went on to the next few patterns, went to the shop for the materials  etc…That way I didn’t have to drop hundreds of dollars at once.  I have really enjoyed it and am sure you will too. Have fun with your new hobby, J. Day

Response:

My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

I received a Christmas gift last year of a computer CD "The Art of Fly Tying" that has a lot of video clips and audio instruction on various techniques.   It’s actually pretty cool.   I’m a beginner myself, and I did take a short course from a local shop the year before, but I thought the CD showed a lot of the same stuff (more, actually) just as well, and in some cases better (close up shots).   There is no substitute for in-person instruction for feedback, evaluation, and troubleshooting; but if you have no other option, I’d recommend the CD. Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.   My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

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I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are (snip)

Due to a happy turn of events my wife and I have recently begun to look at fly tying.  We will be picking up some basic beginner books and canvassing some local tiers for "hands on" assistance.  At least one local fly shop offers "custom kits" made to suit your skill level and the type of fly you wish to tie.  They even offer "specialty kits" to tie specific flys.  I think we will read and watch and try a few basic flys.  This winter we will attend one of the many fly tieing classes being offered. We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Tim, I bought a kit when I first started to learn to tie, that was a mistake. Go down to your local shop and buy a vice, scissors, and a bobbin. You can add to your tools as you see fit. Then ask the guy behind the counter what materials you need to tie the types of flies that you use most, and buy the materials to tie them. Also ask him to recommend a book. I taught myself how to tie and while I’m not the greatest, I do catch fish (occasionally) on my flies. When you buy a kit, you get materials that you may never use. I still have some stuff from my kit and I’ve been tying for about 8 years now. HTH, Darin

Response:

There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey.  If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

My uncle gave me his 1950 Herters fly set-up a couple a years ago.  I have been learnin’ ever since.  But a starter kit, a few books on the subject, and just start tryin’. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

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Question:

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies to my original post. Just thought I’d let you know that my wife and I went to Rifle again this past weekend and I was allowed 1 hour to fish (she needs her climbing partner, after all). This time I found that my casting had already improved a lot and I kept my fly on the water (and out of the bushes) much more of the time. I got two small browns this time, and a LOT of missed strikes. Conclusion: my casting and presentation have improved somewhat, and I need to figure out how to convert those strikes into caught fish! By the way, I guess I didn’t make it clear that I grew up in Texas, but no longer live there. Now I live in Colorado — if anyone has recommendations for small streams to fish near Boulder, please let me know. I’ve fished the Boulder and St. Vrain creeks (S & N), but not with my fly rod. bock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations!  But watch out, this has all the stuff that addictions are made of.  I vividly remember my first trout on the fly, and as the metaphor states__hook, line and sinker..I was a gonner.  Living in Texas you must have many bass waters.  Don’t be afraid to challenge them with your fly rod.  A whole lot of fun.  As far as the things like tangled line, too much slack line, or being snagged in the trees goes, don’t worry. These things are all common, and their rate of occurrence will decrease as you level of skill increases.  Have fun! Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Congratulations!  But watch out, this has all the stuff that addictions are made of.  I vividly remember my first trout on the fly, and as the metaphor states__hook, line and sinker..I was a gonner.  Living in Texas you must have many bass waters.  Don’t be afraid to challenge them with your fly rod.  A whole lot of fun.  As far as the things like tangled line, too much slack line, or being snagged in the trees goes, don’t worry. These things are all common, and their rate of occurrence will decrease as you level of skill increases.  Have fun! Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Response:

Heed the warnings and stay at rock climbing or whatever – the addiction cannot be overcome. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark B,   I understand the joy of flyfishing.  I recently started (this past Jan) and I finaly caught my first fish on a fly.  After spending time on the South Platte river trying to understand how and where I need to present my fly I had to deploy overseas for an extended period of time.  When I got back all I could think about was going fishing.  My friend, and flyfishing mentor, and I took off early one morning to a local lake to get some flies wet.  After watching the surface for a little while I tied on a #20 misqutoe and within seconds of hitting the water WHAM!  I caught a 16 rainbow.  I will never go back to a spinning rig ever. Rik This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly.

(snip)

Response:

Mark B,   I understand the joy of flyfishing.  I recently started (this past Jan) and I finaly caught my first fish on a fly.  After spending time on the South Platte river trying to understand how and where I need to present my fly I had to deploy overseas for an extended period of time.  When I got back all I could think about was going fishing.  My friend, and flyfishing mentor, and I took off early one morning to a local lake to get some flies wet.  After watching the surface for a little while I tied on a #20 misqutoe and within seconds of hitting the water WHAM!  I caught a 16 rainbow.  I will never go back to a spinning rig ever. Rik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day.

I snipped all but this of this wonderful post because it rang true with me. I think half of flyfishing success is learning to negotiate the intricacies of dangling line, leader, and fly in the midst of thousands of prickly little sticks and stems. The general rule I live by is that if it’s possible to get snagged you will get snagged. After a great deal of pain and aggravation you learn to anticipate any remotely possible snagging hazard. Then you find yourself with your fly on the water for the majority of the time, instead of unraveling impossible snags for the majority of the time. As you’ve discovered, markb, there are about a million ways you can screw up when flyfishing. That just makes getting it right so much sweeter.

Response:

congrats–bass are real kick on a fly.  there is lots of stream fishing for them in the hill country and lots of good lakes.  if you are on the coast you have chances at really good fish.   wait til you get your first red. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Couldn’t agree more with this, or the sentiment expressed in that long, previou s post. Having successfully stalked and caught myriad skittish wild rainbows in a tiny gin clear creek did a world of wonders for me psychologically…talk about stress reduction (understatement). And of course, the bug spread like ebola on the loose. I now desperately hope any work related conferences are within a decent time’s drive of some good trout water. Next summer, weather permitting, hope to take more advantage of the gems of the catskills and adirondacks, as well as VT. I’ll keep up with my practising during the year ahead but will misssssssssss those little wild trout. Alex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. I snipped all but this of this wonderful post because it rang true with me. I think half of flyfishing success is learning to negotiate the intricacies of dangling line, leader, and fly in the midst of thousands of prickly little sticks and stems. The general rule I live by is that if it’s possible to get snagged you will get snagged. After a great deal of pain and aggravation you learn to anticipate any remotely possible snagging hazard. Then you find yourself with your fly on the water for the majority of the time, instead of unraveling impossible snags for the majority of the time. As you’ve discovered, markb, there are about a million ways you can screw up when flyfishing. That just makes getting it right so much sweeter.

Response:

Question:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

then what has it become to you ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I hope you eat what you catch!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

"Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line." I’ve watched you do just this Mark, and wondered when I’d be able to with the same level of calm.  I wouldn’t say I flog in desperation, because I’m quite certain that the next cast will be the one.  But I am in full agreement that if it becomes anything less than joyous, taking in a distant thunderstorm or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine. JE

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer OK, you got me……. JE

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

While I know of a few who have suffered the symptoms you describe I am not one of them; for the problem is: "Flyfishing can’t get out!" Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I think if I ever get burned out on fishing I will just lay down and go to sleep for there will be no reason to get up. — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Yes, I’ve had that.  That happens when I don’t have the gas money to go!

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

This may help.  After catching a few fish and experiencing that burnt out feeling, cut your hook from the fly and fish hookless.  It will be impossible to bring a fish in, but the challenge will be in the strike.  I often do this this with poppers in salt water fly fishing.  Who cares if the fish is fought and eventually conquered, the challenge is in the deception and the strike.

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

        Yes! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

Last year I fished Yellowstone (twice), the Kenai, Oregon, and Idaho.   As I was packing my gear after a pleasant day fishing in Idaho in late October, all of a sudden it hit me that the season was over and that there would be no more fishing.  What surprised me was the feeling of relief.  I guess you could call it a burnout. All that has changed now. <g -AR

Response:

Jeez I wish I fished often enough to even come close to burn out Roger

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time.

I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to burn out on Fly Fishing! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

Tony: We need a little more background here… Do you fish every day? How many hours? How long have you been flyfishing? Do you catch a fish (the SPECIFIC fish you’re after) every cast? Do you fish the same water every day? Are your casting/presentation/retreive/playing/releasing skills perfect? Do you work? I’ve been at this for close to 40 years and have never felt even the beginning stages of "burnout".  But then again, this work thing cuts seriously into my fishing time. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Yeah , that’s the way I feel when the fishing is too easy. It becomes routine. I do a lot of saltwater flyfishing and when we run into large schools of stripers or blues and you catch a fish on almost every cast it gets boring. Go figure. –tony

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck,

other than thumping those you find dislikable this was a nice post Tim. If you’d cut out the 1st paragraph it would have been a truly admirable bit of musing. Keep trying you old blood sucking buzzer! 8^) Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Response:

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult.

Fishing burnout shouldn’t keep one from venturing out to a stream or hiking to a pond.  These are the most beautiful places in the world and there is much more enjoyment to be had than just catching fish.  Burnout and depression is a common thread among many of the posts here lately, and I think that we all need to broaden our horizons to ensure a true enjoyment of the sport.  Why sulk because of no fish when you could take some photos, draw a sketch, hike to a vantage point or identify plants, rocks, birds, and animal tracks. Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line. mark vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering    from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman    in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.    –tony SURE.  Just quit for a while and recharge.  You will enjoy the sport all the more when you inevitably return. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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Question:

I have been tying flys for a couple of years and reciently decided to get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? Their necks cost about $20 less than the Metz. Are the Metz micro-barb saddles any good? Will I get e decient selection of 14-16 hackle. I don’t plan on tying anything smaller than a 20, for now. Also, I am married so that makes it kind of hard to justify 70 dollars for "a bunch of feathers".0     Thanx,         Pat

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I would strongly consider that you check out Hoffmann’s super saddles in grade 2 or 3. I just sized all of the feathers on a Grade two and they range from 12 up to 18 with a concentration in the 14-16 size. The feathers are incredible, you can tie 5-6 flies with one feather! You can tie hundreds of dozens of flies with one of these saddles. If you figure it on a flies/money basis this is a good deal. If you E-mail Dennis out of each Hoffmann super saddle, and what sizes. You really only need a neck if you are going to tie a lot of very small dries.

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I have been tying flys for a couple of years and reciently decided to get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? Their necks cost about $20 less than the Metz. Are the Metz micro-barb saddles any good? Will I get e decient selection of 14-16 hackle. I don’t plan on tying anything smaller than a 20, for now. Also, I am married so that makes it kind of hard to justify 70 dollars for "a bunch of feathers".0     Thanx,         Pat

Hi Pat Yes those darned feathers cost a bunch but think about Hoffman saddles. You can buy a 1/2 saddle for $18.00 and tie a heck of a lot of flies. If you are interestd I sell them OR check out you local fly shop. Hoffman saddles usually have a feather size range from #12 – #18 with most feathers in the size most tiers use, #14 & #16. My wife and I make a major portion of our living tying flies and we use Hoffman saddles almost exclusively. They are really great. I do carry some other alternatives in my stock, just email for further details or a catalog. You can keep the cost of hackle down also by purchasing with a friend and dividing the neck or saddle — just an idea. Good tying & … — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I have been tying flys for a couple of years and reciently decided to get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? Their necks cost about $20 less than the Metz. Are the Metz micro-barb saddles any good? Will I get e decient selection of 14-16 hackle. I don’t plan on tying anything smaller than a 20, for now. Also, I am married so that makes it kind of hard to justify 70 dollars for "a bunch of feathers".0     Thanx,         Pat

Spencers are quite good, I have several.  I really like their hen necks as well. I think the best approach is to go for Hoffman saddles. The Metz saddles don’t go as small in range as the Hoffmans.  Splitting a number 2 saddle with a buddy will get you outfitted for a long time.  Go to the store – do not do this mail order, and use your hackle sizer to check out the various saddles.  They will run all of a size on each saddle, make sure you get one that is right for what you want to use it for.  Then you are fixed for that fly for years.

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 I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? T

Patrick; The best (most economical and best feathers) way to do this is to get Hoffman Grade #3 necks.  The feathers are the same, but the density is less.  I bought a Hoffman saddle and should have bought a neck.  Saddles are great if you are tying a lot of 12-16 flies.  I needed 16-18. Saddles are superior hackle, but the size is limited. JB

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I always get #1…1.  There is a difference, and 2.  One of my ff buddies came over to the house, flipped the neck over and saw the #2 stamp and called me girlyman for being a tightwad.

for a couple of years and reciently decided to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1?

Response:

get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? Their necks cost about $20 less than the Metz. Are the Metz micro-barb saddles any good? Will I get e decient selection of 14-16 hackle. I don’t plan on tying anything smaller than a 20, for now. Also, I am married so that makes it kind of hard to justify 70 dollars for "a bunch of feathers".0     Thanx,         Pat /

Years ago, in the 60s and 70s, we got our chicken hackle from India and China. We graded them in AAAA, AAA, AA, A, B and C, if I remember right. We would buy them by the hundred and would grade them ourselves. Hal Janssen, a northern California fly fishing and tying expert, once showed me how to grade them. He first put them into stacks by color. Then you would check the stiffness by bending a hackle and putting it up against his upper lip. Then he would check for the size range. This was the big killer as many of them would not have a feather smaller than a #12. This was not so bad years ago as the fish were more plentiful and would eat a #12. We would look for feathers that had some length to them so you didn’t have to tie on 3 to 5 hackle to get enough turns to make a good fly.  We would have many different colors. White, creme, ginger, red game(brown) and coachman brown(very dark) along with combos like badger, flame, cree, cocubony(sp) and grizzly. We would die creme necks to a blue dun. My friend, Bob Quigley, could really get some good looking blue dun and light olive die jobs. I would die saddles hot orange for steelhead hackle as we could not get any. I say that today we are all spoiled with the genetic necks from Hoffman and Metz. Years ago, if you had a neck that looked like a #3 Metz you wouldn’t tie with it. You would just pull it out and show it off to your friends. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I have been tying flys for a couple of years and reciently decided to get in to dry flys. I started pricing the various necks, ouch! My question is, is it really that big of a deal to use grade 2 necks over grade 1? Also, are Spencer necks any good? Their necks cost about $20 less than the Metz. Are the Metz micro-barb saddles any good? Will I get e decient selection of 14-16 hackle. I don’t plan on tying anything smaller than a 20, for now. Also, I am married so that makes it kind of hard to justify 70 dollars for "a bunch of feathers".0     Thanx,         Pat

Hi Pat, Usually the biggest difference between #1 and #2 necks is the amount of small sizes of hackle.  Unless you are going to tie a lot of #22 – #26 flies, the #2 is all you need and may actually be preferable to the #1.  I have an old  #1 Metz brown cape that I can’t use for size 10 or 12 flies because the stems are too thick to wind well in those sizes. The Hoffman saddle split between friends (as suggested by Al Beatty) is a great idea presuming you can find them.  I have a #3 Hoffman grizzly saddle (looks as good as most #2’s Ive seen since) that has primarily #16 & #18 feathers that are 7" to 9" long.  They are a fly tiers dream as that is the size of most of the dry flies that I tie.  Be warned however that the Hoffman saddles usually have 2 sizes in abundance and other sizes are scarce by comparison.  They are there, but not nearly in the numbers as the 2 primary sizes.  These primary sizes vary from saddle to saddle so be sure to check them out so you get the sizes you use most often. The normal Metz saddles are *not* in this league.  Their feathers are long but more commonly run in 8’s and 6’s with a few 10’s and 12’s if you’re lucky.  I haven’t seen their "micro barb" saddles yet. If you can’t check them out yourself, order them from Al or someone that you have confidence will give you what you request and take it back if it is not satisfactory.  Be sure to specify the preferred sizes you want to use it for.                                   Good Luck,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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I always get #1…1.  There is a difference, and 2.  One of my ff buddies came over to the house, flipped the neck over and saw the #2 stamp and called me girlyman for being a tightwad.

GET A NEW FRIEND! Sounds like a guy that buys everything based on brand and price, not on need and functionality. Most commercial tyers or moderately high-volume tyers buy #3 and #2 saddles and capes unless they’re looking for a large volume of SMALL hackles (and by small, I mean size 24-28 stuff!!) By going to a well stocked shop and selecting your own hackle, you’ll find that many of Hoffman’s graders will downgrade a cape/saddle due to broken tips and "less than even" coloring across a cape/saddle.  Personally, when I can get 6 or 7 flies out of one saddle, I don’t get too bent about the tips being broken!!  As for the less than even color, well…hao many times do you think a fly is refused because the dun is medium instead of light on one turn of the hackle??   If your fish refuse flies like this, send em to your pal that says you’re a wuss for buying #2s!!  Bet he’s got a teal vest and uses a rod with a dampening action in the handle! I’ve tyed flies for over 30 years, and over the past 15 years I’ve bought ONE #1 cape…a grizzly that I still have.  I’ve purchased an average of 6 capes and saddles per year since then, mostly Hoffmans, mostly #3s and some #2s. Larry #:)#

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Question:

John- My experience in the Yellowstone area is that any time after mid-September you’d better be prepared for any weather extremes including snow (potentially heavy-a foot or more wouldn’t be unusual.)  So, unless your group are hardy campers, you could really be caught short by the weather. ( It can also be very warm, so bring clothes for all possibilities.)  As for rivers, everything I have heard from several sources this year is that fishing has been below par all around the area.  Madison in the park is never too hot, the firehole might be getting better as the weather cools, forget the Gibbon.  Try the Gallatin inside the park – it can be very good – or not!  Check with Bob Jacklin’s shop or Blue Ribbon Flies for the best info on current conditions. Motels are all around, none too fancy but I like the Lazy G Motel on Hayden street.  Phone 406 646-7586- owners Bob & (Sharon?-I think) are real nice folks.  They have at least one unit with a kitchenette.  Have a great trip – drop me an e-mail when you get back & tell me how you did!

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We are planning on fishing out of the West Yellowstone area the first week in Oct.  We would appreciate any inputs on that plan, specifically: Camping out?  Is the weather apt to be too cold to enjoy tenting at Madison Junction? What streams are good that week?  We probably won’t want to travel too far so we don’t cut into our fishing time too much.  Looks like the Firehole, Madison in the Park, Gibbon.  Any other suggestions? Any recommendations on reasonable motels in W. Yellowstone if we decide not to tent? Thanx John Bjostad Columbia Heights, MN Retired avionics engineer – full time fly fishing addict

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We are planning on fishing out of the West Yellowstone area the first week in Oct.  We would appreciate any inputs on that plan, specifically:

I’ll let someone more familiar comment on the relative merits of the rivers in Yellowstone.  Do be aware that the road in Yellowstone south of Madison Junction for about 5 miles is only open from 6a-10a and 6p-10p weekdays.  When it is open, expect delays as the construction doesn’t detour you around but rather thru where they’re working.  This is also true for east entrance from Cody. — Steve & Tish Harder Ames, IA http://www.netins.net/showcase/wwwisc

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Question:

I will be in the Marathon area over the Thanksgiving Holidays and would like information on access to flats that I can wade. I will not have a boat, but could possibly rent a canoe. Any info to flats that I could drive to and wade would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance…release ‘em Tom Steele

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Here are a few suggestions: Long Key Park, Bahia Honda Park, the east side of the road west of Islamorada at the utility pole #913, the flats behind the high school at Marathon, the oceanside flats between milemarker 52 & T. Chittums (both are flyfishing shops in Islamorada) and the folks at Tournament Bait & Tackle. During this time of year, I think you’d have your best chances at most of these places during an incoming tide in early morning, right after a cooling rain, or near sunset. Best wishes, Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY

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: the flats behind : the high school at Marathon, Do any of the students go to class?  Sheesh… I think I live in the wrong part of the world… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Hi David, Yes most streams here in Montana are high and dirty with spring run off. One area you might check is Libby, Montana. The first 4 miles of the Kootenai River below the dam remains fairly clean during runoff and may very well be your only shot. 4 miles down stream from the dam the Fisher River will probably be pouring a lot of dirty water into the system. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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The problem you have is that you talked to the fellow at Kalispell last week, and you’re coming next week.  At this time of year, that is an eternity!  In the spring, conditions are volatile.  After 10 days of cold weather, most everything is down again.  If it warms up, it will come back up. If it stays cool, the rivers stay down. You have a couple of options on how you go to Kalispell from Helena.  If you go north from Helena, the Missouri below Holter Dam has come down and is offering some good midge dry fly fishing(if the wind isn’t blowing).  You can wade that stretch of the river, and there are several fly shops in Wolf Creek and Craig, Montana.  If you go west to Missoula and then up to Kalispell you could fish Rock Creek or maybe the Bitteroot south of Missoula.  I’d recommend you talk to the fellows at Grizzly Hackle in Missoula about that fishing.   Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

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I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

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I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Rock Creek is fishing pretty good…has is the Bitterroot..but it is pretty high.

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Question:

My fishing buddy and I will be in Idaho Falls and Yellowstone the first of June.  Any suggestions on patterns and sizes will be greatly appreciated as this is our first visit to the area. Also, any information on small steams in the area and the outlook for that time of the year. Steve D.

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My fishing buddy and I will be in Idaho Falls and Yellowstone the first of June.  Any suggestions on patterns and sizes will be greatly appreciated as this is our first visit to the area. Also, any information on small steams in the area and the outlook for that time of the year. Steve D.

Hi Steve,         A friend of mine named Jim Mengle is a guide at Last Chance Lodge in Last Chance ID.  It’s right in the middle of the best rainbow fishing in the lower 48.  Big strong wild rainbows on the Henry’s Fork River!!!  The lodge is run by a great guy named Lynn Sessions & Family.  It’s about an hour northeast of Idaho Falls on route 20. It’s right on the banks of the Henry’s Fork River on the way to Yellowstone Park.  I would be up in that area if I were you…  As a matter of fact that is where I’ll be!  THE hatch  (Western Green Drake) will probably be happening about then.  Also PMDs size 16 and Caddis with green egg sacs about size 14-16.  Fishing Bead Head Nymphs size 14-16 and Black Rubber Legs size 6-10 are a good bet in the Box Canyon.  You can wade in the Box,  but it’s best fished by drift boat. I highly recommend getting a guide (Jim is one of the best).  The fishing up here can be beyond excellent but you have to pay your dues one way or another.  For more info you can call Jim at  home 208-652-7508 or Last Chance Lodge’s # is 1-800-428-8338.  You can also get a nice inexpensive room there, plus they have an excellent fly shop.  There is also a great fly shop in Idaho Falls called Jimmy’s All Season Angler which is run by Jimmy Gabettas & Family.  Their # is 208-524-7160.   All of the above will be happy to help you guys.                                 Have Fun! | Bruce Braunstein C.C.P. | 208-524-7001

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