Question:

Two of us are planning a ten-twelve day canoe trip in La Verendrye reserve in Quebec, late August to early September. Any advice on routes? We have the route maps put out by the reserve, but they’re a bit short on detail. Some specific questions: Are motor boats allowed anywhere in the area? We definitely don’t want to share the trip with them. The portages look pretty short and straightforward – are there any you’d avoid? Same thing with the river sections connecting the lakes – are any of them to stay clear of? (We also paddle Class 2 whitewater but are not taking a whitewater boat along, don’t want to run rapids on this trip.) The campsite density near Le Domaine looks very high – is it really very crowded there? Will the area be crowded over Labor Day weekend? Can you leave your car safely for a couple weeks at any of the other access points? Would you recommend bringing an emergency phone/locator system, or is that overkill? We’ve done a 12-day trip in Algonquin Park (from the northern access) and are looking for something similar, but a bit wilder with fewer other people. Any comments and recommnedations gratefully received!

Response:

Two of us are planning a ten-twelve day canoe trip in La Verendrye reserve in Quebec, late August to early September. Any advice on routes? We have the route maps put out by the reserve, but they’re a bit short on detail. Some specific questions: Are motor boats allowed anywhere in the area? We definitely don’t want to share the trip with them.

Hunting and fishing are the primary activities in La Verendrye and fisherman can drive/fly into the lake they have purchased a license to fish in.  This means you are likely to encounter motorboats on any good sized lake along your route. The portages look pretty short and straightforward – are there any you’d avoid? Same thing with the river sections connecting the lakes – are any of them to stay clear of? (We also paddle Class 2 whitewater but are not taking a whitewater boat along, don’t want to run rapids on this trip.) The campsite density near Le Domaine looks very high – is it really very crowded there? Will the area be crowded over Labor Day weekend?

You can only count on the portages within the Le Domaine area being well maintained so it is hard to say what you will encounter elsewhere.   Can you leave your car safely for a couple weeks at any of the other access points?

This seems to be a problem.  One of our canoe club members suggests leaving your car empty and unlocked. Would you recommend bringing an emergency phone/locator system, or is that overkill?

That would be overkill considering the interior road network and the likelihood of encountering fisherman who have driven in. We’ve done a 12-day trip in Algonquin Park (from the northern access) and are looking for something similar, but a bit wilder with fewer other people.

La Verendrye has the advantage that you can select routes that are long but with relatively little portaging.  It is impossible to do a route of significant length in Algonquin without a considerable amount of portaging. — John Stewart — Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University "you are incompetent bloodlusting idiot pirates. — CCS student feedback"

Response:

Question:

"John Beowulf" wrote… Well, I don’t know about that but last Sunday this kid was fishing in San Francisco Bay and caught, well uh, (gross alert) a human skull. Maby its the old bad boy of the teamsters!

What did he catch it on? –Steve

Response:

I think he was just dead weight, at the end of the line. PatK I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Joe Fleischman writes: I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed.

Uhuh.  He  was found under Tammy Fay Baker’s make-up! Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave LaCourse wrote Joe Fleischman writes: I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed. Uhuh.  He  was found under Tammy Fay Baker’s make-up!

The worst part is…he was buried alive! —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Peter Charles wrote I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased** but I’m sure he ended up as chum.

Ironic.  He started out as king.  I knew a morphological change occurred in the life cycle, but I didn’t think a species change was part of the deal. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Nope.. concrete waders. That’s where Orvis got the idea for their ‘Bulletproof’ wader series. Herman  Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975. wet wading? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Well, I don’t know about that but last Sunday this kid was fishing in San Francisco Bay and caught, well uh, (gross alert) a human skull.  Maby its the old bad boy of the teamsters! -John

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Response:

Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

No. Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975. — Charlie…

Response:

No. Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975.

I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed. Joe F.

Response:

 Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975.

wet wading? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

Response:

I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

Response:

I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased**

but I’m sure he ended up as chum. Peter

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Was that the movie starring Jack Nicholson as Jimmy Hoffa? Excellent. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

Thanks for the info.  I’ll have to try the "Prissy".  I figure even with the 5wt it ought to be fun just trying.

Response:

…  I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt …

Poppers, the bigger the better but whatever you can cast. I like deer hair poppers but they’re real wind eaters. The weedless ones are best, they have a loop of heavy mono tied in to surround the hook point. Use a short & heavy leader, ie less than 7′ and tapered from .021 (~ 50 lb test) or so down to about a 3X or even 2X. Some folks don’t even worry about taper when tossing big bass poppers and just use 6 or 7 foot of moderately heavy (30-40 lb test) mono. You can catch big bass on a 5wt but you’d be better off with a heavier rig, especially if you need to horse ‘em out of the weeds. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

<<I’ll be down in Tx early in April and have the opportunity to fish lake fork.  Bass should be in the shallows and i’ve been told it’s a good opportunity to do some sight fishing.   I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt so I suspect I can’t throw the monster bugs. You will be here at a very good time. From the first of April until tmid June is the best time for fly fishing Laker Fork. If you are using a 5 wt rod I would advise taking an extra. This is also a very good time for blue gill and crappie. They are huge and will be just right for your 5 wt. . I usually use 17 lb. leader at Lake Fork. No taper. These fish aren’t leader shy. Even the big bass will hit small poppers. A favorite of mine is called "Miss Prissy". You can buy them at WalMart for less than you can make them. It may still be a little early for poppers. If so, try something like chartruese or white wooly buggers or zonkers. The fish that you see are probably bedding fish. Cast to them but if they ignore it leave them alone to spawn. You will see people torment them until they are able to snag them. There are a couple of good fly fishing guides on the lake if you need one.

Response:

I’ll be down in Tx early in April and have the opportunity to fish lake fork.  Bass should be in the shallows and i’ve been told it’s a good opportunity to do some sight fishing.   I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt so I suspect I can’t throw the monster bugs. thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing newsgroup: A guy went into the water in Elliott Bay as part of a [simulated rescue situation]. He was wearing a survival suit (the water *is* cold up here), and made the mistake of diving in head-first.  All the trapped air in the suit collected at the highest point once he was in the water, which was the feet.  He was not able to get himself rightside-up, and drowned before the boat could get back to him. I’ve never seen a survival suit except in pictures, but I understand it to be something like a dry suit with insulation and flotation built-in. I guess there *IS* a reason why I ritualisticly squeeze all the air out of my suit before each time I get into my boat.

Doesn’t sound like much of a problem for paddlers’ dry suits to me.  At least decked boaters are wearing a spray skirt which ought to be tight enough to keep air passing that quickly between upper body and legs. And everyone I’ve seen putting on dry suits burps as much air out as possible simply for the reason of making them more flexible.

Response:

: Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing : newsgroup: I should have mentioned:  these survival suits (when I owned one) did not have neck gaskets; the only way I remember that air/water could get in our out was from around the neck.

Response:

(KCKaddis) writes: sounds like an urban legend to me … you’d think that a suit designed to save

your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos Actually, this is a common problem with dry suits. SCUBA divers often wear additional weight on their ankles to prevent a feet up uncontrolled ascent. … by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders…

the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; ) More likely, it is a case of pulling your chest up toward your feet. Still, a dry suit has air stored up to the neck with a gasket that is intended to be leakproof. This is a whole lot different than a pair of waders which allow air to freely flow in/out. SCUBA suits have valves to allow air to escape at roughly chest level, but survival suits or the dry suits used when paddling do not. This should not be a life threatening situation with proper training, but few know of this risk and even fewer practice how to escape from this situation (the logical escape procedure would involve raising the body toward the surface in as flat a plane as possible, thus allowing the  the air to redistribute evenly in the suit – not having the opportunity to practice this, I’d imagine strong swimming/sculling skills and good breath control would come in handy). Whether or not this particular even is an urban legend is moot. There is a potential when wearing a dry suit for the air to redistribute in this fashion as the suit does nothing to prohibit the motion of air. Thus, bleeding the things before entering the water is important. Rick

Response:

Actually, [air trapped in legs, floating you head down] is a common problem with dry suits. SCUBA divers often wear additional weight on their ankles to prevent a feet up uncontrolled ascent. This should not be a life threatening situation with proper training, but few know of this risk and even fewer practice how to escape from this situation (the logical escape procedure would involve raising the body toward the surface in as flat a plane as possible, thus allowing the  the air to redistribute evenly in the suit – not having the opportunity to practice this, I’d imagine strong swimming/sculling skills and good breath control would come in handy).

I’ll be helping to run a pool session this winter, and I plan to try it.  My dry suit has ankle gaskets, so the easiest escape for me probably will be to reach for my ankles and burp them.  Who knows, maybe the pressure inside the suit will be enough for it to happen without my help.  If that’s the case, then I’ll try to borrow a suit that has booties built in, or I’ll try taping my ankle seals to make them tighter.

Response:

KCKaddis writes :: << sounds like an urban legend to me I remember when dry suits first appeared in the UK (early 70’s) – they were made out of latex rubber and actually worked pretty well while they lasted (which wasn’t long). They had a roll waist attachment and glued on booties. I would wear mine snorkeling and if I didn’t burp the suit my flippers would pop off my feet whenever I dove (my feet would turn into balloons). I don’t remember any problems getting stuck upside down though. The clear latex suits (mine was pink) were the worst looking things in the world – looked like they should have come out of a giant dispensing machine in the public toilets<g Mick Evans

Response:

        I did run across one survival rescue suit in a catalog a coupla years ago that had rings embedded in the legs so that they wouldn’t expand if air rushed there in an upside down position.  Blurb suggested that indeed it had been a problem.   KCKaddis wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … you’d think that a suit designed to save your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos… by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders… the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; )

Response:

: Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing : newsgroup: … I owned one of these, though never tried it out in the water, when I fished in Bristol Bay.  I no longer remember the details about them except that the suits are like toddler’s pajamas, and are bulky and awkward to get in and out of.   I find the story to be quite credible.

Response:

Sportsmansguide actually has some surplus survival suits   for $200. They have huge airbladder on the back, apparently to prevent this sort of mishap. I once read of a similar fatal accident involving a fat woman with an inner tube around her waist.

Response:

sounds like an urban legend to me … you’d think that a suit designed to save your life would have floatation in the right spot to float you head up if unconciuos… by the by , while fly fishing , I learned of the same prob with waders… the solution , if you find yerself in this fix , is to pull your knees to your chest & burp the air out… or stay dry  ; )

Response:

Here’s something to think about.  I saw this message on a sailing newsgroup: A guy went into the water in Elliott Bay as part of a [simulated rescue situation]. He was wearing a survival suit (the water *is* cold up here), and made the mistake of diving in head-first.  All the trapped air in the suit collected at the highest point once he was in the water, which was the feet.  He was not able to get himself rightside-up, and drowned before the boat could get back to him.

I’ve never seen a survival suit except in pictures, but I understand it to be something like a dry suit with insulation and flotation built-in. I guess there *IS* a reason why I ritualisticly squeeze all the air out of my suit before each time I get into my boat.

Response:

Question:

Greetings. I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post…. Someone responed (I need to go see whom)…"What about Thomas McGuane ?" Well, I wasn’t really sure and hadn’t read any T. McGuane recently, so I read "The Longest Silence" yesterday. I must say that what I read really got me in a lather, it was difficult for me to even get off page one and I recalled my previous feeling for the man. It was not GREAT writing, far from it. The problem was that he made reference to meat hunters and their gunnysack full mentality and how if he hears one more person ask him "is they good to et ?" he would go nuts (which is fine and dandy, he is allowed to have an opinion) but then he went on to (discussing the pursuit of permit) say that "if you have one mounted….", (what you could expect), etc. So I read (in no uncertain terms)… 1) Hunting for meat is beyond reproach. 2) Hunting for a trophy is acceptible. And, as far as I’m concerned….McGuane can pound sand… But that was just the tip…I felt like he was bragging the whole time…about his fearless hauling ass in his overpowered skiff and ricking life and limb in the process. Actually "Bragging" describes his writing farily accurately to me (kind of the way I feel when I read Wulff). Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this sort of thing, IMO, however popular with his constituents.  It simply is never necessary in the telling of any story by a GREAT writer. I immediately reread Chathams "No Wind in the Willows" (both short stories are in Sports Afield "A Flyfishers Reader") and was brought back to a semblance of calm. Not unlike the transient calmness brought on by the writings in "Waterlog" In fact, if you want me to mellow out entirely, pool together and buy me a subscription to this, the best fishing periodical in the world (Gray’s Sporting News excepted). I guess if asked to surmise… Chatham took me fishing. McGuane took me with him while he fished. Chatham had ’soul’. McGuane only spouted. What can I say, I loved the former but loathed the latter. I’d hate to formulate an opinion on one short story…thus my question…. Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Or maybe they meant Thomas Macintyre ? — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim??? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings. Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this

Response:

And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim???

But, uh…with all due respect… We were discussing GREAT fishing author’s and not… "The Efficacy of Beligerance in an Internet Flyfishing Newsgroup…". But if you wanna start that thread….go for it ! — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

Response:

It’s supposed to be funny!  I think he’s as cynical as they come and I tend to like that sort of thing.  Have you read the Sporting Club?  It makes a lot of fun of the "sports" and they (we) deserve it– in a good way.

Response:

I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

Response:

It’s a bit harsh to pull someone up for a spelling mistake. Not using the spell checker yes, fair enough but not for a spelling mistake! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

Response:

I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post….

Wait a minute, I seem to recall a post not so long ago where you maintained a certain writer (whose name I won’t mention) couldn’t possibly be a GREAT fly fishing writer because eighth graders wouldn’t ever be required to read his work (creating a situation where there might only be five "great" writers in all the history of man). Is Chatham required reading in junior high? Tight lines, TC

Response:

Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

if there is one thing I hate it’s people using Hemingway as an example of a great FF writer. A great writer he was, perhaps the best of a great lot the US of A produced this century. But as a fisherman and a writer about FF he was just a duffer; a mere pedestrian. Most who fished with him ( and lived to regret the experience) – remarked he wasn’t much of a fisherman.Much of his reputation was thanks to his talent for bragging and fabrication (he was a writer of fiction after all!) Hemmingway publically admitted to admiring Haig-Brown – enough said. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Read McGuane’s short story "Molly" in an Outside Chance. If you have ever owned a bird dog you will laugh your ass off.

Response:

Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance. Cheers, Ivan

Response:

Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance.

I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to read. — Charlie…

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: I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was : actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to : read. Beautiful stuff indeed.  So good, I can’t bring myself to read Duncan’s other work in case it doesn’t match up.  I guess I’m losing my optimistic side… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Question:

The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are.

        that was taken from Ernie’s Post and somehow i dont read PUBLIC land into that snip. I read private land.  if you read it you will find 100′ strip  on ALL streams.  Im taking the post as its said. and im aware of BLM leasing to ranches. and yes i feel that the those public streams need help but Ernie states ALL streams.         I can get into seizure of private land but this isnt a place for that discussion.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ernie was referring to PUBLIC lands. Out West large tracts of public lands are leased to ranches for very small fees.  I also think that these leasees should be be required to care for OUR land.  On a number of these leases that I’m personally aware of, these leasees try to illegally keep the public off these public lands by posting No Trespassing signs. Some leasees routinely place many more animals on the leased land than the lease allows. Imposing & enforcing regulations on this group is very difficult.  In many areas of the West, they are a large group with alot of political clout. There have been articles in Audubon Magazine about these abuses. I also agree with you concerning land owners rights. Many of our rights as land owners are being threatened. The vast majority of land owners care for the own land far better than the public does for our public land. I’m in favor of tax incentives, grants etc. given to landowners to encourage good conservation practices, like you suggested. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, and others…. I am not a member of the game commission, but do know the policies of the DGIF of Virginia on these matters …. am past president of one of the chapters of Trout Unlimited and have had discussions with the DGIF and some of their board members on this topic…. So it is the policy of DGIF to discontinue stocking on sections of streams as they become posted…..   Will still stock above and below if not posted. The right of peaceful passage on any stream that will support boat traffic (canoes) is always available.   In case of land owner ship, but state stocked waters and the land owner owns both pieces… especially if a Land Grant dating from 1759 from King George you may not fish, anchor, step on the stream bottom or do anything but pass.   In cases where the land is owned but not a land grant you may stay in the stream and fish, but not get on the bank…  We have just had a big case resolved here in Virginia over this issue…..   so if someone tells you this is land grant property….. don’t argue… just say excuse me and move on… Best case is to take a gift to the land owner and ask permission…. works everytime. I don’t have any problem with any landowner posting property that had been stocked in the past and the state then discontinuing stocking… Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*I haven’t heard for a while, but it used to be in Pennsylvania that to be

allowed to wade legally, the waterway had to be classified as a "navigatible waterway". This meaning that the body of water was open to larger boat traffic, such as tugs, barges, etc.  This also included legally passing over on any type of boat as well as wading. These smaller waterways are owned to the middle of the river or creek, unless both sides are owned by the same person. I have never heard of this being changed.                                       Jim

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<snipAll streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.

Where would the cattle and sheep drink? <snip Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.

My experience has been that the gate would be left open frequently, allowing the livestock to enter anyway. <snip It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are.

True, but we need to remember that there are more issues than fish. Unless we all forsake meat forever, livestock must be raised somewhere. The American west is a source of a rich heritage to many of us. I was born a cowboy, but I chose to become a fly fisher. There are many facets to the issues being discussed here, and the commments that you have made here overlooks most of them. Jeff Runner

Response:

Canoe access would probably be fine on streams and rivers.  The question usually arises on lakes and ponds, which Maine is full of, including hundreds which support only trout.  Many of these are wild populations, but many with silty bottoms require stocking.  The public is guaranteed access to a "great pond" over 10 acres in size, but that doesn’t mean you can even walk down a road to get there.  The whole issue has never been seriously challenged in court.  I believe any pond with vehicular access which is not granted to the public would not be stocked under the present policy.  I’ve strayed off the subject a bit, but access is sure to become a hot issue in Maine in the coming decades. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well does access mean total public access or does canoe/boat put in count? just curious In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed.

Response:

Where would the cattle and sheep drink?

Access to water would be provided at controlled points. My experience has been that the gate would be left open frequently, allowing the livestock to enter anyway.

There is animal proof access such as turnstiles. Unless we all forsake meat forever, livestock must be raised somewhere. The American west is a source of a rich heritage to many of us. I was born a cowboy, but I chose to become a fly fisher. There are many facets to the issues being discussed here, and the commments that you have made here overlooks most of them. Jeff Runner

I am not suggesting that we don’t raise cattle, only suggesting that we don’t let them continue to destroy the environment.   – Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison

Response:

you should just post it (poem) and who cares about rhyming and for the hisroty lesson on Kings Land Grants thanks it was interesting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you want my poem on the subject, called "King’s Grant," e-mail back.  It doesn’t rhyme. Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF, I’m glad we don’t have the same problem here, as You have in the US, accessing our favorite lakes and streams. In Norway people have had for ages the right to peaceful passage over land and water, whoever owns it. There is a set of laws which regulates this right. But in general everybody can walk, ski, paddle and camp wherever they want in the nature (not fields and gardens). In summer -96, my wife and I, took a trip to Montana to fish in the legendary rivers there. It was a little different for us, driving around looking for spots marked with small fishes (=fishing access) on the roadmaps. Back home we’re used to park the car, then walk straight to where we want to fish …. But don’t get me wrong, we loved the place, despite all the "No Trespassing" signs. Great fishing and the scenery was awesome. We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can. regards, ON

Hi, Same with us here in Nova Scotia, we are allowed "on or across" any property with the intent to fish. Now, if everyone would shut the cattle gates after they get in, we’d all be happy ! Bill

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… We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can.

Welcome (back) if and when you come to Idaho! Very little land here is posted as private, and we have what many states dream of: Wild Trout! Why all the fuss over lack of access to "stocked" trout? I find this utterly puzzling. Stocked trout are not Wild Trout! "Stocking" trout points to misplaced priorities, especially with regards to riparian zone and habitat. But that’s just my opinion. Now, stocking ducks that can’t fly (with notches in their wings); that’s okay, because I’m not a hunter…  ;-)                            - jqt –

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part II: Well why dont you start convincing land owners about a conservation easement… thats better than a mandatory fencing… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My 2 cents on this subject is stop stocking those poor lazy, diseased hatchery trout with their fins chewed off and start using the money to protect and restore habitat.  All streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.  I had not realized the damage done by allowing animals to graze up to and in the streams until I saw what fencing did for Yellow Creek in Northern California.  The stream changed from a barren shallow overgrazed area to one where the grass and flowers were waist high and the stream became a deep trout laden joy to fish.  I think the fees paid by people who rent this grazing land should be used to construct these fences and failure to maintain them by the people who rent the land should result in termination of their contract and removal of their animals.  Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.  This would improve habitat, reduce erosion and improve water quality.  The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

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Hi fellow FF, I’m glad we don’t have the same problem here, as You have in the US, accessing our favorite lakes and streams. In Norway people have had for ages the right to peaceful passage over land and water, whoever owns it. There is a set of laws which regulates this right. But in general everybody can walk, ski, paddle and camp wherever they want in the nature (not fields and gardens). In summer -96, my wife and I, took a trip to Montana to fish in the legendary rivers there. It was a little different for us, driving around looking for spots marked with small fishes (=fishing access) on the roadmaps. Back home we’re used to park the car, then walk straight to where we want to fish …. But don’t get me wrong, we loved the place, despite all the "No Trespassing" signs. Great fishing and the scenery was awesome. We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can. regards, ON

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Well i’ll have to disagree with you there. Private owner ship is what made america I dont want some King owning MY land.  and as for dumping.  I see more people dumping on public water/land than I do private. I know more private land owners who respect the property than dont respect their land . They pay the bank and pay taxes on THEIR land.  I see more citizens abusing Public land. Id be more worried about your local company than some farmer sick and tired of people trespassing on HIS land.

Ernie was referring to PUBLIC lands. Out West large tracts of public lands are leased to ranches for very small fees.  I also think that these leasees should be be required to care for OUR land.  On a number of these leases that I’m personally aware of, these leasees try to illegally keep the public off these public lands by posting No Trespassing signs. Some leasees routinely place many more animals on the leased land than the lease allows. Imposing & enforcing regulations on this group is very difficult.  In many areas of the West, they are a large group with alot of political clout. There have been articles in Audubon Magazine about these abuses. I also agree with you concerning land owners rights. Many of our rights as land owners are being threatened. The vast majority of land owners care for the own land far better than the public does for our public land. I’m in favor of tax incentives, grants etc. given to landowners to encourage good conservation practices, like you suggested. Willi

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My opinion: They probably have a politician in their pocket. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

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I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained.

We often find (1) property and trespass laws vary between states, (2) they may be affected differently in each state when private water is stocked by the taxpayer.  I’ve been told, in New York State, posted water may be waded or boated if stocked by the state, so long as the visitor enters from public access or across private land where he has permission for access. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.

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well does access mean total public access or does canoe/boat put in count? just curious – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed. back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.

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Private property. Just the sound of those two words conjures up day dreams of monster fish that have never seen a fly.  While I may not get too many invitations to fish on private property, I am sure thankful when I do. If all the private property were made public than these dreams would disappear forever. That is how I view it than.    Private property is simply where the caretakers of my dreams live.

My only concern with this is that the ‘private property’ may continue to grow so that unless you do know someone, you just read about fishing here and watch it on the cable stations(while this can be interesting, it does not compare). I have seen some waters along Forest Service roads bought and now posted. It used to be stocked regularly and was a great place to take kids from the youth organization I worked at. We often find (1) property and trespass laws vary between states, (2) they may be affected differently in each state when private water is stocked by the taxpayer.  I’ve been told, in New York State, posted water may be waded or boated if stocked by the state, so long as the visitor enters from public access or across private land where he has permission for access.

I neglected to add that those are the rules for Georgia. I try to remember that this is read over the whole planet. I am sure there are some vast differences in the laws. As I said, those are the laws in Georgia. It is not that it is a real problem but I guess it caught my attention due to seeing some fisheries long available become posted. It is certainly a dilemma. I might add that the reasoning for some individuals posting property was discovered to have nothing to do with creating or preserving a fishery nor even animal rights issues. The stream I mentioned was closed due to the exposure to liability if someone were to be injured on the owner’s property. This likely means that they would not push the issue in most cases but you would be fishing illegaly. Not a good idea to get into this situation. I am not sure how other areas are growing, but at least in N. Georgia growth has not brought larger numbers of trout anglers. Good and bad. Though there is no crowding(save opening day) more support would provide the impetus for Ga. DNR to do more in maintaining the populations. Though good streams exist, many are just put and take. Great responses to the original posters questions. Thanks for the input. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

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Dan, and others…. I am not a member of the game commission, but do know the policies of the DGIF of Virginia on these matters …. am past president of one of the chapters of Trout Unlimited and have had discussions with the DGIF and some of their board members on this topic…. So it is the policy of DGIF to discontinue stocking on sections of streams as they become posted…..   Will still stock above and below if not posted. The right of peaceful passage on any stream that will support boat traffic (canoes) is always available.   In case of land owner ship, but state stocked waters and the land owner owns both pieces… especially if a Land Grant dating from 1759 from King George you may not fish, anchor, step on the stream bottom or do anything but pass.   In cases where the land is owned but not a land grant you may stay in the stream and fish, but not get on the bank…  We have just had a big case resolved here in Virginia over this issue…..   so if someone tells you this is land grant property….. don’t argue… just say excuse me and move on… Best case is to take a gift to the land owner and ask permission…. works everytime. I don’t have any problem with any landowner posting property that had been stocked in the past and the state then discontinuing stocking… Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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My 2 cents on this subject is stop stocking those poor lazy, diseased hatchery trout with their fins chewed off and start using the money to protect and restore habitat.  All streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.  I had not realized the damage done by allowing animals to graze up to and in the streams until I saw what fencing did for Yellow Creek in Northern California.  The stream changed from a barren shallow overgrazed area to one where the grass and flowers were waist high and the stream became a deep trout laden joy to fish.  I think the fees paid by people who rent this grazing land should be used to construct these fences and failure to maintain them by the people who rent the land should result in termination of their contract and removal of their animals.  Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.  This would improve habitat, reduce erosion and improve water quality.  The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

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Well i’ll have to disagree with you there. Private owner ship is what made america I dont want some King owning MY land.  and as for dumping.  I see more people dumping on public water/land than I do private.   I know more private land owners who respect the property than dont respect their land . They pay the bank and pay taxes on THEIR land.  I see more citizens abusing Public land. Id be more worried about your local company than some farmer sick and tired of people trespassing on HIS land. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

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Hello all:         I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

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Well the land owner can restrict people on his/her property. After all they own it, they pay taxes on the land.  Im sure if you were to float through and not get out of the canoe/jon boat youd be fine. Just because a state stocks a river doesnt mean every tom dick harry and jane can trespass on private land.   Or you could go to the county courthouse/county tax record find out who owns the land and ask permission.   My guess is the landowner got sick and tired of haing people tromping over his land, liter his property he payes taxes on, and finally decided to post.   Wildlife is owned by the "state" but the land may not be. My suggestion get a canoe, cover lots more ground. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all:    I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

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I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated.

As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

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Well if parts of the river are controlled by state/federal entities, the river might be flowing out of the NP, stocking would filter down to the landowners.  Somehow i doubt they drive down this chap’s land and stock the fish right there.   Also they might be stocked since access points along the river might be a govt operation. that way one couldfloat down the river catching stocked fish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

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Private property. Just the sound of those two words conjures up day dreams of monster fish that have never seen a fly.  While I may not get too many invitations to fish on private property, I am sure thankful when I do. If all the private property were made public than these dreams would disappear forever. That is how I view it than.    Private property is simply where the caretakers of my dreams live. Than, of course, there is "wilderness".   The word "wilderness" conjures up as much mystery and daydreaming as do the words "private property". And therein lies the secret, I believe, if you are willing to sort it all out. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Unfortunately there are people who have no respect for someone’s property. They litter, break down fences, open gates and don’t close them, shoot holes in signs, even shoot livestock.  These are the reasons why land owners post their property.  This trend is increasing, all you have to do is look at the  stuff scattered along our highways.   — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all:    I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

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Question:

OK Tim.  Your punishment is to suffer 30 lashes with a #1 fly line, then stand naked in the sun and recite the following: This is my rod I called it a pole I ask god’s forgiveness to save my poor soul. —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I have to invest in another pole. Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska Timothy, the word is "rod", not pole.  You use garden hackle when you fish with a pole, you know those wiggly things. Ernie Harrison

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Tim, See what I mean? —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie Harrison writes: Timothy, the word is "rod", not pole.  You use garden hackle when you fish with a pole, you know those wiggly things. Ernie Harrison The difference between a "rod" and a "pole" is about $350. Dave L.

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Hey, never mind. The silicon jelly I have works fine on dry flies. My wife and I went fishing on a pond just near the house, which is stocked with trout. Not bad for my second time. I even learned a few things, and what’s more, I think I retained the knowledge of  said lessons!  Even my wife tried it out(she’s not much for fishing), and she really likes fly fishing now, so I guess I have to invest in another pole. By the way, there’s some lakes here with pike in them. They behave differently (a little) from river pike. Would they hit flies, and what kind? Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska

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I guess I have to invest in another pole. Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska

Timothy, the word is "rod", not pole.  You use garden hackle when you fish with a pole, you know those wiggly things. Ernie Harrison

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Ernie Harrison writes:

I guess I have to invest in another pole. Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska

Timothy, the word is "rod", not pole.  You use garden hackle when you fish with a pole, you know those wiggly things. Ernie Harrison The difference between a "rod" and a "pole" is about $350. Dave L.

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Question:

Anyone been to the MacKenzie Trail Lodge in B.C…… we saw the owner at the sportsman show in denver and are thinking about going next summer….would like some feedback on the place if anyone has been there.

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Anyone been to the MacKenzie Trail Lodge in B.C…… we saw the owner at the sportsman show in denver and are thinking about going next summer….would like some feedback on the place if anyone has been there.

I have visited Tsasha Lake and stayed with Bill the last 4 years. The dry fly fishing on the Blackwater is excellent. I fished in June, July, and August and found the fishing good any month but I prefer June. The weather is cooler and it has a better chance of rain but the fishing makes up for it. Lots of fish-a 50 fish day on the Blackwater is probably below average if you spend any time and effort. I only counted fish one day (my first) and easily topped 100 fish. The real trick on the Blackwater is getting into larger fish 16". There are fly outs available and some of the lakes offer larger fish. Bill will steer you to the spot that will meet your needs. There are a few walk in lakes that offer good fishing. One has very nice fish but it is possible to get skunked. I always give it a shot and catch fish about 1/2 the time. I tie flies for Bill and give seminars after the feasts they call dinner. So factor in my biasis. Perhaps others will have more to say. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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Question:

I am closing in on spending about $1,000 on a kick boat – a very sobering prospect since i can’t try it before i buy it.  Am pretty close to picking the OUTCAST 800 – any comments on this or other kick boats would be appreciated – particularly interested in hearing from owners – goods points, bad points, gotcha’s – you know, the stuff you wish you had known before you spent YOUR money.

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I am closing in on spending about $1,000 on a kick boat – a very sobering prospect since i can’t try it before i buy it.  Am pretty close to picking the OUTCAST 800 – any comments on this or other kick boats would be appreciated – particularly interested in hearing from owners – goods points, bad points, gotcha’s – you know, the stuff you wish you had known before you spent YOUR money.

I bought one recently and absolutely love it (as do my friends, who have various other contraptions).  My experience so far has been limited to fishing in Puget Sound (not what it was intended for, but works great for fishing for coho along the beaches).   Some specific observations:   – Very fast.  I can *easily* out-row someone walking on the beach. For short periods can probably overtake even a typical jogger.  Fast enough for running down cruising coho in any case.  As an indication of it’s low drag, it will glide (coast) for a long time (maybe a minute), if you have your feet on the rests.  I have found it necessary to brake with the oars on occasion to avoid overshooting.   The 6 1/2" Carlisle oars are perfect, but be sure to get the open oarlocks.   – Kicking.  In spite of the high seating position, it kicks comfortably and efficiently.  Once again, very fast.  I can kick faster than some other 1-person craft can row (eg. Float and Tote’s or Water Master’s).  Way faster and more comfortable than float tubes.   – Very manueverable.  In spite of its 8′ length, it turns on a dime.   – Adequately portable.  I taped a piece of pipe insulation to the rear (foot rest end) cross member.  I can comfortably carry it on my shoulders, grasping the foot rests with my hands to balance and stabilize it, even up and down fairly steep banks.  Is at the high end of the comfortable weight range though (probably about 50-55# with anchor and gear).  Of course it breaks down beautifully (four pins breaks it down into 3 pieces – very quick) and inflates and deflates very fast.   – Casting.  Excellent position;  high enough to get extra reach. Casting apron holds the line very well, with upturned edges.  Seat is very comfortable, as is the foot rest system (seat position is adjustable).   – Anchor system.  Great.  Very easy to operate and requires very little weight to anchor (I use a 5# ball).   In general, very well thought out and constructed, and seems to be well backed.   A couple of caveats:   – Is directionally somewhat unstable and has a tendency to turn when gliding.  This isn’t a major problem, as long as the boat is properly trimmed (keep frame well back on tubes;  ie, toward the foot end) and good oarsmanship is practiced (pull evenly on both sides).  I suspect this is due to the  pronounced rocker in the tubes – which also contributes to its maneuverability and ease of rowing;  not a bad trade-off, IMHO.   –  Oars must be shipped behind when kicking or sitting, since they tend to get in the way of casting if allowed to float.  Also, have a tendency to bind against the locks in waves, popping the oars free. (I’m thinking about devising some holders at the ends of the tubes). Fortunately shipping the oars behind is easy and quick to do.    - Frame finish (powder finish) isn’t nearly durable enough.  With less than 10 outings, I’ve already got numerous chips.  Oh well, it’s an alumimum frame and at least it won’t rust <g.   – D-Rings are nickel plated, not stainless steel, and have tendency to rust, particularly in salt water.   I feel (based on the occassional waves we get on Puget Sound) that it will handle very well in most rivers (probably will need the 10" model though for serious white water stuff).  Lakes (after Puget Sound) will be a breeze.   In short, I thinks it’s a super boat and have no regrets about spending the premium $$.   Still, for $1K, I’d strongly suggest you try one out yourself before forking over the $$.  Where do you live?  If you can get to Seattle, Swiftwater (206-547-3377) handles them and may let you borrow their demo unit for a trial on one of the local lakes.   -Wes Wes Neuenschwander Seattle, WA

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I’ve had a Buck’s Bag Bronco for a little over a year and couldn’t be happier.   Well maybe, my oarlock system kinda sucks.  This problem I believe has been taken care or in the new models.  The problem was that in shallow water the oars would sometimes come out but for the most part this really isn’t a problem, you just have to pay attention from time to time. The anchor system unless improved sucks.  I love all the storage you get on the Bronco.  I have a pocket for everything from lunch to my camcorder and have extra room to spare for shoes, jacket (in case of rain) and of course all my fly gear, a camera, etc..  To get this kinda of storage on the Outcast is gonna cost a lot extra.  The new Bronco’s are made of stainless steel so the won’t rust.  I lend my pontoon out from time to time and some of my friends are pretty tall 6′5".  The extend the foot rest out all the way for comfort.  The Outcast is a one size fits all.  If you are real tall you may find it uncomfotable.  Make sure you check it out before you buy.  The Outcast has a better bladder system than the Bronco but I don’t know if matters.  I take my Bronco through the worst looking parts of the river and bang’em into trees when grabbed by fast eddies and haven’t had a problem.  No matter which raft you plan to buy, I say buying one of these crafts is the best money I’ve spent on fly-fishing (except my rod).

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I am closing in on spending about $1,000 on a kick boat – a very sobering prospect since i can’t try it before i buy it.  Am pretty close to picking the OUTCAST 800 – any comments on this or other kick boats would be appreciated – particularly interested in hearing from owners – goods points, bad points, gotcha’s – you know, the stuff you wish you had known before you spent YOUR money.

LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT!  It’s really a cool rig!  I’ve had it for about a month now & really enjoyed it.  People are always asking questions about it.  I’ve seen a few others out on the water that are smaller; they seem to have to work harder when rowing, & have less space than the PAC-800. There’re some guys I’ve run into who are in a float-tube bass club in the San Jose, CA area (‘Bass-n-Tubes’); they say the kickboaters are begin- ning to outnumber the float-tubers.  I’ve seen several of their rigs; some have these 6- or 7-rod holders, depthfinders, etc.  Of course, Bass-n-Tubes won’t let them compete in their tournaments with motors attached, but I saw some motorized units at the recent Sportsman’s Expo in San Mateo, CA (where I first saw the Outcast models). I’ve been having some *minor* problems dealing with the park rangers & reservoir operators who don’t know how to classify the durned thing (e.g., am I a float tube or a rowboat?  Do they restrict me to certain portions of the lake?  Do they charge me to launch?).  All in all, though, I’m extremely satisfied with my purchase.  It’s so versatile & mobile, with *greatly* improved range over a float tube, especially with the added cargo space. I tie down mine on my Honda Accord roof rack; it’s a bit of a wind-drag, but it holds on just fine (poor gas mileage notwithstanding; wish I had leased a pickup truck rather than an Accord!).  I’ll be using mine primarily on the local reservoirs fishing for bass, but I’m sure it would be a kick flyfishing for trout on the rivers. I say, GO FOR IT!  It’s a BLAST! (Oh — and don’t let ‘em persuade you into buying the air pump.  For one thing, the Bass Pro Shops catalog has the same one for almost $10 less. But I won’t even consider filling it with one of those anyway; the local filling station air compressors are much more effective — and less tiring!). Jo-Bob says: Check it out! Good luck, & tight lines! J Smith Sunnyvale, CA

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Hi searuncut, I couldn’t agree more. My wife and I love our water otters. We’ve used them on every type of water you can usually find here in Montana. I’ve take mine through every type of water I take my drift boat through. If I were to make another purchase on a pontoon boat I would probably buy the Buck’s Bronco because of it’s adjustability. The River Otter is almost the same but a little more expensive. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Would any one know where I could get info on fly hatches in Northern Ontario? Jason

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I don’t although I’ve tried to some degree. It seems not many of the locals (most of which are natives depending on how far north you are talking about) are avid fly-fishing types. I’m going to do some wild brookie fishing in N. Ontario in June, so if you find any specifics please pass it on and I’ll do the same. Thanks…….

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Would any one know where I could get info on fly hatches in Northern Ontario?

There’s nothing in print:  but lots of people would say you don’t need to match the hatch or carry more than: –muddlers, all sizes –big visible dry for broken water –big white moth alias spinner –small upwing dun –small caddis —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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