Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."  

I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark. Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

Response:

noted diver F Reid notes: out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!

Come on up to the Tulpehocken when it rains, it is close to the only time I fish the place. I would note that cloudy(not rainy) days are by far the best on Penns for just the reasons Willi observed.                    just wanted to post                    into a thread whose                    title included Waynes Crabs,                    Tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."

BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

     …  snip …    …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not  be, an apostrophe in any river name.    Why not?    Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used  example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after  William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it  ever, "Clark’s River."       I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who   actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s   Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.     Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a   plural, not at all what was intended. I agree with you Chas. From what I understand, not using an apostrophe was just a convention that was adopted by topographers. I also think that it’s one of those rules that is "violated" so much that either usage is now correct. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  

Er, no.  For example, if one actually owns the body of water (such as a pond or lake), then it would be "Clark’s Pond," as opposed to one simply named after someone. We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.

Are you sure?  Maybe it named for Clark’s Nutcracker… Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

You’re actually a pair of Cha? TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

BZZT! Both John Deere and Uncle Ben’s are trade names, and so, they are meaningless as to the grammar, spelling, etc. – you could have "Clark’s Klarcs Barz," whose slogan is "Made with Uncle Ben’z Arrowz, so eat ‘em on Jonn Deare’s tractors…" TC, R

Response:

   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.        Willi             Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK     and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of     wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go     fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these     suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking     sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a     decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

in jan 2001, wally and i resorted to traveling up to tennessee to fish the watauga tailwater.  all the streams in the mountains of nc were frozen over and unfishable – really.  the only time we saw bugs coming off (wally says they were bwo) was when the sun shone for a while.  the fish would get active and we’d catch the hell out of them.  then the sun would go behind the clouds and the hatch would stop, along with the catch. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.   Willi   Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK   and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of   wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go   fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these   suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking   sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a   decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

yeah, yeah…but i was talking about fork flies…<g. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. Willi

Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Why not? Chas

Response:

you’re one evil geezer…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not?

Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chas

Response:

i will self-flagellate while facing southwest…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Response:

Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval

Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers: An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website: http://www.henrysforkanglers.com The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0… 060 And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP, I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. bruce h

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?  

Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather…..

Response:

RockTrout writes: Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.  

Fortenberry knows that region very, very well.  He spent all of his adult life there — what…. two years?…. so I’m *sure* it’s gonna snow.  I wish Warren had warned us.   d;o)

Response:

    Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.     http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/     All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

  …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode.     just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as   good for hf… I think you’ll be pleased with Harry’s flies. The flies he offers are VERY well tied and many are different from "normal" ties which is especially good, IMO, on hard fished water like Henrys Fork. Willi

Response:

  Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers:     An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website:     http://www.henrysforkanglers.com     The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September   so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders:     http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0…   060     And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP,   I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. You know there are trout rods in other than five weight, you have enough 5 weights. You need to broaden your arsenal. Willi

Response:

What I need is a bunch of stupid trout It’s raining here right now- hoping to hit the Clarks Fork tonight- I understand the river has been something close to phenominal the last few days jh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/   All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

 I would agree, if the clouds roll in I would think the BWO would be the ticket. The Wind, IMO, is more of a problem than no bugs…. HM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame. http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

Question:

I am wondering how anyone whom is quick to tout their educational achievements and command of the English language can justify the below quotes.  It also seems that the same poster is very quick to infer intellectual superiority often in the same post.  What level of higher education is needed before you become so proficient and diverse in the use of vulgarity?  In fact, is it not a contradiction to claim to be educated and to have to resort to vulgarity in writing and speech to convey rational thought? "Very notable was his distinction between coarseness and vulgarity, coarseness, revealing something; vulgarity, concealing something." Edward M. Foster I would like to thank Mike Connor for the following pearls of wisdom from his recent postings. "I do not go around sending badly spelled extremely ignorant and insulting posts to people I hardly know"  [I guess he knows everyone very well] "You are just a stupid ungrateful little troublemaking fucker" "you fucking numbskull." "Some of you really do seem preoccupied with spew and shit, and stuff like that." "Another intellectual cripple who wants to fight a war of intelligence. Read my lips sonny. Go and fuck yourself." "you insufferrable piece of  shit" "you are still a fucking idiot. As far as I recall, I never called you an asshole. I called you a nasty little shit." "Yet another nasty little shit reveals himself." "Do yourself a favour dickhead," "you are nothing more than a nasty little shit," "Another dumb shithead joins the pile." "What a nasty arrogant little shit you are." "You fucking arrogant shithead. Feeling left out?   Head for the shit-pile, all assholes welcome" "You really are a stupid bastard." "Most disappointing that having failed to shake the logic of my arguments, you resort to attacking me personally." J.G.

Response:

Fortenberry said all that stuff?

mercy! Mu

Response:

Fortenberry said all that stuff?

Response:

…….is it not a contradiction to claim to be educated and to have to resort to vulgarity in writing and speech to convey rational thought?

Huh? Wolfgang

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I am wondering how anyone whom is quick to tout their educational achievements and command of the English language can justify the below quotes.

Pardon me, but I don’t think we’ve been introduced. Who the hell are you? Gentlemen, WHBT. – — "When the cruel apathy of time laughed in your face,  did you hear me say ‘each life has its place?" -Indigo Girls —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE75jMCrpli/675/DERArOLAKD6E62/D2OqrWdkQFGH5fQCpZM33wCgtx7P kOZWWqehZuDEi3ckDoco080= =Vvj5 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

I would say he should be designated as "The Midnight Skulker" Strikes Again! Keep it a mystery Gooldy. Mr.G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I am wondering how anyone whom is quick to tout their educational achievements and command of the English language can justify the below quotes. Pardon me, but I don’t think we’ve been introduced. Who the hell are you? Gentlemen, WHBT. – —

Response:

I am wondering how anyone whom is quick to tout their educational achievements and command of the English language can justify the below quotes

<SNIP "Most disappointing that having failed to shake the logic of my arguments, you resort to attacking me personally." J.G.

Well, the beauty of it is, I don

Question:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

Wading there and in most places is dependent on flows. Typically flows are down in the Winter. Willi

Response:

<snipped Danl, Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there.

 …..good advice snipped….. Bruce, Thanks for the heads up on the clothing. Danl

Response:

Blackcat, Thanks for the update and link. You say the water is really low now. Does the flow (release from the dam) fluctuate a lot during the winter? Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it.

You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. As for the temps, it can be from 20 to 60.  It’s usually really cold in the early am and you find yourself peeling layers as the day warms up, like everywhere.  One thing for sure – the water is cold and your feet get cold no matter what.  Getting out of the water for a few minutes does the trick though. If you have a waterproof jacket with a hood, bring it.  I will also have both breathable and neoprene waders.  Fleece pants are needed if you’re wearing something other than neoprene waders. There’s an excellent report from Resolution Guide Service on http://www.ifly4trout.com – updated yesterday.  There’s some chance that the lake will be "turning over" and the water murky.  If that’s the case, there will be less sight fishing, and maybe less dry activity, and more blind casting nymphs.  Pray for clear water. Strong Hooks, bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours.

Can’t! Then what would we do in the non-fishing hours? Danl

Response:

Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right??

In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Charlie,   I don’t know.  With this group of guys, we may have to leave Denver around 2:00 am in order to get there by cocktail hour:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

  Damn candy ass!  You had a vet?  Your "disgust-O-meter" is calibrated differently than mine.  How about removal of—–oh, nevermind.  Not on a "familly" newsgroup. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: (really good time stuff snipped) Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h

    god, i am envious. wayno

Response:

Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know.

You could move New Mexico about two or three travel days closer to North Dakota, so that I would be able to come… Kevin, green with envy

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info.

 …other great info and awesome display of preparedness snipped…. Bruce, Thanks for the offer of the room, but I’ve already burned the plastic for a room at Rizzuto’s. I wish I could figure a way to bring a keg of Dortmunder, but another time. Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right?? Danl

Response:

Anyone know what Bruiser drinks, besides pond water of course?  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

All, Actually, Aztec is closer, and cheaper! Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info. 2.  Steve, I’m ready.  We can fish another stream on the way up and drive into Navajo Dam late Friday night.  I’m planning on driving back to albuquerque late tuesday after fishing.  We can also wait for dan’l and his rental car but that may prevent fishing friday. 3.  I’ll make sure everyone has directions to the river.  Directions from just about anywhere are on the ifly4trout.com website. 4.  Dan’l, maybe you can jump into Bob’s room for the nights you’re there.  He’s got one booked at rizuto’s – http://www.rizutos.com – and that way we’ll already have arrangements made for you.  Bob, in case you’re wondering, Dan’l was voted world’s nicest person at the western clave. 5.  There are flyshops galore at the river, and Rizuto’s is a flyshop also.  Abe’s is across the road.  Float n Fish, which i’ve designated ROFF’s "official" flyshop because of their friendliness and dry fly prowess, is about 300 yards away from rizutos.  They are also psyched to have this group coming to the river, they’ve heard about you guys : 6.  Keep tabs on http://www.ifly4trout.com – especially the reports from resolution guide service.  All of the "tips of the month" and FAQs are helpful also and reading them in advance will get you to the fish quicker. 7.  I’m involved in a remodel and simultaneous move but i’m still fifty flies into my goal of tying at least 200 flies for everyone’s use.  And they *are* a little slicker than those i tied for the raffle. I am really psyched for this deal.  If we can get warren down here that would just top it off completely, I really think he’d like a few days on such a different river. Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Danl, I’ll be at Rizutto’s from the afternoon of the 7th thru the morning of the 12th. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Danl

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Response:

<snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

If folks want to consider me an asshole

for saying so, that’s fine by me.< Hmmm.  Asshole’s a pretty strong word.   I prefer to think of you as a Frightened Illini.   Or is that Frightning Illini?  Or Illinoi*s*ian?   (Accent on the "s" of course.)  <g

Response:

Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM.

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

I’ll be flying into AlbertQ on Sat. afternoon and visiting with friends until Sunday a.m.  I’lll rent a truck or car and drive to Rizuto’s.  I need directions, btw, Bruiser. Hope to be there about noon time on Sunday, so hope you dudes will leave directions on where to meet you on the river.  Looking forward to it.  However, I doubt my eyes will survive tying these #22 and 24 hooks! I fly back to Taxachusetts on Wednesday afternoon. Dave L.

Response:

… PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Paraphrasing Harry Truman who in response to "Give ‘em hell, Harry", said I’ll tell the truth and they’ll think I’m givin’ ‘em hell. A little bit of word play on a Usenet newsgroup can in no way be compared to the ugliness of institutional bigotry and casual racism. If folks want to consider me an asshole for saying so, that’s fine by me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l.

 Steve, I’m sposta arrive about 2:15PM. I’m gonna rent an infernal combustion engine powered contraption of some sort (SUV). If Bruce can’t make it, you’re welcome to ride up to Navajo Dam with me. How much they charging you to put Simon and Heather in first class with Arlo? Bruce, is Rizzuto’s the place to be? Can I buy beer (not pale yellow belch water) in Navaho Dam or do I need to take care of this in Albertqq? Danl

Response:

Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM. Danl PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Response:

Question:

A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it?   The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

Terry, now that you mention it, that’s how our first NC clave was I’ll never fergit IJ in that raffle hat that Jeff donated. What a sight Course, some of us can cast, aspersions that is. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html everyone’s invited! Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33…

Response:

terry, your post is more than a bit gehrke-esque…   …guess we all have different measures or standards for determining the worth or nature of a fisherman.  whether someone can "cast worth a shit" isn’t among any of my criteria for making a judgment (maybe cause i can’t cast worth a shit). i like what mcguane said:         "Uncle Ben, was my father a good fisherman?"         "No, Tommy, he was not.  But no one loved it more." I prefer the company of fishermen who "love it", and could give a rip whether they can cast or even catch fish. I like fishing with them, and, if they like fishing with someone who "loves it", I think they’ll like fishing with me. jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

Response:

Terry, At the Spring ‘99 clave and the Fall Ball clave (Oct ‘99) I had the opportunity to observe, and fish with, a cross-section of roff participants and I can state that there are quite a number that can, indeed cast.  Several can also catch fish.  As for the consumption of single malt, cigars, etc, that has been raised to an art form. Evolving, I might add. During the in-between and subsequent periods, I have continued to sully my reputation by associating with some members of the aforementioned group: the downward spiral notwithstanding. The Darwinian progression of this group will eventually and undoubtedly, exceed any one individual’s ability to describe or define it.  In the meantime, I will just wear my funny hat(s) and try to avoid anyone watching me cast.. about that…. And, you’re right, it’s not just "just not the computery types", there’re engineers here now….. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

Response:

Question:

I clicked the URL and there she was Just shirt & boots & skin & fuzz Mercy me, shall I go blind? the beauteous glow of her behind did make my eyes bulge out of sockets and tightened the fabric about me pockets. Is this the heaven of which Wayno spoke? The reward for being a righteous bloke? Doth her rivers flow with milk and honey? Would she love me if I had no money? Too bad she was but 2 dimensional 72 DPI for screens conventional Alas, so it goes dear friends on ROFF Though perhaps for some you did get off. Torben’s a master of cruel tricks for his JPEG pulled your eager Johnsons. Moishe

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I clicked the URL and there she was Just shirt & boots & skin & fuzz Mercy me, shall I go blind? the beauteous glow of her behind did make my eyes bulge out of sockets and tightened the fabric about me pockets. Is this the heaven of which Wayno spoke? The reward for being a righteous bloke? Doth her rivers flow with milk and honey? Would she love me if I had no money? Too bad she was but 2 dimensional 72 DPI for screens conventional Alas, so it goes dear friends on ROFF Though perhaps for some you did get off. Torben’s a master of cruel tricks for his JPEG pulled your eager Johnsons. Moishe

        damn if i don’t think you have some promise as a writer of doggerel; an occupation which, in my opinion, eclipses that of a seminary student. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I clicked the URL and there she was Just shirt & boots & skin & fuzz Mercy me, shall I go blind? the beauteous glow of her behind did make my eyes bulge out of sockets and tightened the fabric about me pockets. Is this the heaven of which Wayno spoke? The reward for being a righteous bloke? Doth her rivers flow with milk and honey? Would she love me if I had no money? Too bad she was but 2 dimensional 72 DPI for screens conventional Alas, so it goes dear friends on ROFF Though perhaps for some you did get off. Torben’s a master of cruel tricks for his JPEG pulled your eager Johnsons. Moishe

That’s Disgusting!  And, like most disgusting things, freakin’ hilarious! "and tightened the fabric about me pockets"  heh heh heh,  I’m still chuckling. thanks Mu, — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

<snipped I clicked the URL and there she was

What was that URL again?  Sounds like they have some new info to see errr read there. Warren

Response:

MUuuuuuu river, soft and pure white buns….. purrrrrfect for the bums of roff…… http://www.imf.au.dk/~tmm/flyfish.html

Response:

I clicked the URL  <snipped

Thanks Mu, for now, I have seen everything. Wayno & Asadi in the same header… don’t that beat all. obclave: BTW guys, I’ve been antsy all week…see ya sat. Waldo wonderin’ , what next? — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. Herters Professional Fly Tying book stated that the small fly was tied by Miss Helene Shaw on Jan 21, 1939. It was tied on a specially made English hook size forty. The was pattern was a Royal Coachman. I don’t know if you can believe this source. Herter’s books are very interesting to read. There is alot of good information in them but you really have to sift through them. According to him, he originated almost every fly pattern & designed most everything used for tying & fly fishing. Fun books from a real character! Willi

My original queries on seeing the request for where to buy these was "What length are these hooks, what gape are they, are they up eyed down eyed or straight eyed? I don’t believe they are any more than a renumbered small hook given the number to massage the egos of fly tiers.  A bit like American dress sizes are given smaller numbers than they get in England. richard

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point.

Any major compromises in construction details ?…I mean… that band of peacock/floss/peacock alone would be wider than the shank length, wouldn’t it ? Curious…thanks… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

And what material was used for the leader and how many fish did he catch with these flies? richard

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point.

Herters Professional Fly Tying book stated that the small fly was tied by Miss Helene Shaw on Jan 21, 1939. It was tied on a specially made English hook size forty. The was pattern was a Royal Coachman. I don’t know if you can believe this source. Herter’s books are very interesting to read. There is alot of good information in them but you really have to sift through them. According to him, he originated almost every fly pattern & designed most everything used for tying & fly fishing. Fun books from a real character! Willi

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

FWIW. Some years ago I read in the "Guiness book of records", the smallest fly ever tyed on a hook was a dry "Royal Coachman" size 30+ something back in the thirties by a lady. ( Don’t recall her name)  Jocke

Response:

I have some size #32 hooks (sorry, personal inventory only). I can not locate my source but they are labeled: Mustad M277. Mustad’s web site may be of further assistance. Good luck all! Mike.

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub.

I just returned from a old tackle shop, and while I was there making my purchase of flies, I checked out the hooks.  The smallest I could find there was a size #28, it had a eye too.  I was talking to a dealer at a shop  few weeks ago, and he claimed there is a size #32 still around and this does not have a eye, just a little "nub" as you have stated…. –Randy Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Ahh now I understand.  These hooks are made by Letraset….! richard

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub. And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

 The initial question is…why so small a HOOK?  Once you get to the level of stability with 8x…#22_hook?, why don’t you just tie the smaller pattern on the #22?  Once you get to #22..the hooking % will probably drop…..? steve

Response:

And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Response:

Go on then tell us what is a size #32 hook when it’s at home? What length is it or a size #30 for that matter? What gape? Is there an eye? Is it ringed straight?  Or turned up or down?

Some European hooks for coarse fishing are as small as a 30 or 32 on Mustad scale.  They are usually made with a spade end, to be whipped directly to nylon.  These seem different from the gold up-eyed hooks for fly tyers sold briefly in N.America as size 30 or 32 in the 1970s. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I watched two fellows tie #30s by lanternlight just a couple of weekends ago beside the West Branch of the Ausable in NY. Mind you, I didn’t see anyone actually _fish_ with ‘em!

Go on then tell us what is a size #32 hook when it’s at home? What length is it or a size #30 for that matter? What gape? Is there an eye? Is it ringed straight?  Or turned up or down? Or are these hooks numbered in a reverse of the practice used in describing dress sizes in America?  A size 12 dress in America would be called a size 18 in England to flatter the buyer. Is there a fawning practice here of certain crafty hook suppliers to massage the egos of fly tyers and thus ensure some extra sales? richard

Response:

0]

: Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. : Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you : might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. : Anglerboy : — : Trout fear me, : Women want me. Aren’t they controlled by the EPA these days as suspected carcinogens as are other fine dusts like asbestos and silica? Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20.

I watched two fellows tie #30s by lanternlight just a couple of weekends ago beside the West Branch of the Ausable in NY. Mind you, I didn’t see anyone actually _fish_ with ‘em! — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

Response:

   From my experiences, there are some differences between companies as to sizes of hooks. I have seen no. 20 hooks from Veniard that compared to no 18 hooks from Partridge.

This is true; the standards vary.  Regarding #32’s, I think there is a photograph in Robert Traver’s _Anatomy of a Fisherman_ which shows the #32 hooks which John Voelker/Robert Traver used. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20. By the way, does anyone know what unit of measure these hook numbers use? Sounds like a fraction of something, as the greater the number, the smaller the hook, but not being familiar with UK/US units of measure, I’m missing the starting point. We adopted the same numbers in France.

        From my experiences, there are some differences between companies as to sizes of hooks. I have seen no. 20 hooks from Veniard that compared to no 18 hooks from Partridge.

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you

might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. what do you do when the fish are only selectively rising to #32 bugs? why you quit, sit and watch the fish rise, or just enjoy being outside, or you could drink a few beers. chris

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

A friend of mine gave a box of 100 size 32 hooks to me around 1973.  Since I have only a dozen or so left and not in the original box I cannot pass along any additional manufacturer info other than to discrbe them as gold with up-turned eyes.  I tied extremely small midges which worked quite well at producing takes on the Monocacy and Little Lehigh in eastern PA. However, as suggested, hooking fish was tough. I have never seen commercially advertized hooks smaller than 28 aside from these which were available only for a year or two back in the mid 1970s.  ..No, the few I have left are not for sale. Dennis

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

Size 32 hooks are sold in Europe.  They are made with spade ends, for you to whip on to a tippet, or sold snelled. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20. By the way, does anyone know what unit of measure these hook numbers use? Sounds like a fraction of something, as the greater the number, the smaller the hook, but not being familiar with UK/US units of measure, I’m missing the starting point. We adopted the same numbers in France.

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks.

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

Darn tootin’. I have mustad 94842 hollow points down to a size 28 and with my aging eyesight I can barely see the eye (let alone thread anything through it). The hole appears to be smaller than the diameter of a human hair and you can only just see light through it. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Will be glad to pay or trade for any amount.  Gunner

Response:

Question:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

Response:

Anyone who wants to pretie a fly to a shock tippet. Shock tippets are generally used to catch fish that have a tendancy to cut through a normal leader because of their behavior, sharp gill rackers, or teeth. The leader stretcher lets you pretie the flies to your shock tippet and keep your shock straight. A coily shock won’t do. Also, because of their bulk, leader stretchers are typically used by anglers fishing from a boat or where they don’t have to do a lot of wading/walking. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

Response:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

Response:

I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  <snip

Nolan, I would caution you about this technique for stretching leaders as it can damage the leader.  When you draw a piece of mono through the rubber pieces it generates a good deal of heat.  This heat is, supposedly, sufficient to weaken the leader.  I don’t have any emperical evidence of this but I have experienced the heating when using rubber to stretch leaders. I play it safe by simply grasping the leader in arm length sections and stretch it with a steady, firm pull for a few seconds.  This does a reasonable job but will not complete take the curl out of the butt section.  However, I find that even in the cold conditions of winter fishing the butt section will straighten out upon use after a short time – paticularly if you can get the assistance of a large Lake Ontario steelhead. Steve

Response:

Saltwater flyfishers who head offshore! I routinely carry six or eight stretchers with a dozen to two dozen flies per stretcher when heading offshore. They keep the shock leader, or bite tippet, straight and ready to go at a moments notice. Tom Dougherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

Response:

. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

Sounds interesting, How about a description? Rick

Response:

I use a piece of stiff cardboard with slots at each end to keep shock leaders for flats fishing off Cedar Key/Suwannee coast.  Tell me what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

Bob,         Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….                                                 jc

Response:

Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

Response:

Bob, Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….

      jc Dear jc … I know the problem. My little system has kept the tangling to a minimum. First of all I loop-to-loop connections for all pretied leaders. I tie the fly to the shock (usually no longer than 6") and then, with a huffnagle or albright with lock, the shock to the tippet (minimum IGFA length). So from hook point to the end of tippet I’ve got about 26" of stuff. I tie a double or triple surgeons loop at the end of the tippet. That’s all I put on the stretcher. I can get at least a dozen pretied setups on each of the homemade stretchers I described. I then tape each loop to the back of the stretcher with artist’s (restickable) masking tape, creating enough tension to keep each pretied setup tight. I have a loop pretied to the butt section on the reel, so whenever I want to change flies, I do the loop to loop thing and replace the unwanted setup on the stretcher using the restickable tape. It’s not perfect, but it works (even in the rain). Good fishin’ Bob Elliott

Response:

I don’t use leader strechers, I fish for them…. TimW

Response:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

Anyone who is using 60# or heavier mono for shock(wear) tippets for fish with abrasive mouths like tarpon and billfish. It keeps the heavy material straight so your fly will run straight. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Question:

Hi Ian. I live in Gloucestershire and have fished many stillwaters in England. E.mail me if I can help. If I cant help, then I know a man who can.     Tight lines. Dave Tait. Hi there, I’ve been reading this group for the last week, and wish to find out if there is any UK-based readers of this group.   I have recently taken up fly fishing and wish to converse with more experienced fly-fishers in the UK. Ian Hutcherson

– dave tait

Response:

Hi there, I’ve been reading this group for the last week, and wish to find out if there is any UK-based readers of this group.   I have recently taken up fly fishing and wish to converse with more experienced fly-fishers in the UK. Ian Hutcherson

Response:

Hi there, I’ve been reading this group for the last week, and wish to find out if there is any UK-based readers of this group.   I have recently taken up fly fishing and wish to converse with more experienced fly-fishers in the UK.

Hi Ian, Another from the U.K. here. I live on the edge of the English Lake District and fish the local rivers for salmon and trout and also several of the lakes for trout mainly by boat. If I can help or advise in anyway let me know. John Buchanan Ian Hutcherson

– john buchanan

Response:

Hi there, I’ve been reading this group for the last week, and wish to find out if there is any UK-based readers of this group.   I have recently taken up fly fishing and wish to converse with more experienced fly-fishers in the UK. Ian Hutcherson

Hi Ian I’m certainly not an expert, (the trout prove that every time I go out), but I’ll be happy to help you if I can. I do most of my fishing for trout & grayling on the upper Tweed in the Scottish Borders where I live, and on some of the smaller rivers and lochs in the area. — Hugh Simmons

Response:

Question:

I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Response:

I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

brendan

Response:

I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Sounds great, I’d like to visit. What is the URL? I rented a table at the IWFFC convention a few years ago and enjoyed meeting everyone. Anne Harnack http://home.earthlink.net/~ecoedit/flyprints.htm

Response:

I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Bob: What is your site’s address? Stefan M. http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

Response:

Ever have one of those days when you find out later you’ve had just too much coffee?  I clearly left off my URL on an earlier post:    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/ Sorry about that… Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Response:

Question:

I am looking for flyfishing spots within 1hour drive of arlington,va to fish with my 8 year old son. Ideally, looking for spots with parking available within 1mile of site-please e-mail thx

Response:

As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

Ok.  You’ll hear people write about the Patapsco, Potomac, Hunting Creek and others around DC. The Pat and the Pot have some Smallmouth, the Pat a few put-n-take  trout in the Spring.  Hunting Creek is worthless as a trout fishery — it’s become one of the great disappointments in Maryland because of uncontrolled flow  – meaning very little flow (so don’t waste your time driving to Thurmont unless you want to see some pretty scenary).   Set your sights on the Gunpowder in northern Baltimore county, below Prettyboy reservoir.    Best thing going (within a couple hours of DC, anyway). One rule:  Put them back unharmed.  Thanks. J

Response:

I know of the big hunting creek in the Cotoctin mountain. There are also a few others in the area. I’ve been there a couple of times but i’m not sure of the highway that goes there. I do know that it is near FREDERICK and THURMONT MD. It is about an hour drive from DC. I suggest you look at a map or better yet call a local fly shop. tight lines mike* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

Response: