Question:

John, With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’

Glad you posted this!  For those of us in ROFF, it’s probably not hard to imagine what another ROFFian would like for Christmas. But I’d sure like to hear some suggestions for what ROFFians can give their wives.  Now, I’m a lucky flyfisher in that my wife also enjoys ff — but not with the passion and addiction that applies to me. So I’m reluctant to give here something ff-related.  It can seem a bit self-serving — like the idiot husband that gives his wife a new mop! So how about gift selections for the wonderful ladies that so graciously tolerate our peculiar habits? Wes Peterson Who would call himself "liberal," let him love justice. Let him love equality. Let him love compassion and charity. But let him love first, and above all the rest, Liberty.

Response:

With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’ … and with this group … there are probably some great ideas … want to share? I have already gotten the fly vest as a hint that fishing may be on the horizon … but really … what is the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John

Ernie’s blood knot tool is the perfect stocking stuffer for a flyfisherman. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve been dropping some pretty broad hints about Wheatly flyboxes. It’s the perfect gift for the flyfisherman — too expensive for a typical tightwad fisherman to buy for himself, but the finest quality with the patina of Old World tradition. I’m getting my wife and kids a new video/audio system with a DVD player and a satellite dish and receiver. (I’ll make my money back in a year or two by avoiding VHS tape-rental late fees.) I think a couple of Wheatly flyboxes would even the score. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’ … and with this group … there are probably some great ideas … want to share? I have already gotten the fly vest as a hint that fishing may be on the horizon … but really … what is the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John —

On Christmas eve he handed his wife a small rectangular gift that rattled loudly. She asked what he did this time as he was quite a kidder. He just told her to open it. When she did she found a box of Cracker Jacks. P.O.’d she got up to leave. He calmed her and got her to open the box. She fished out the prize pouch and A black pearl ring from Neiman’s. Needless to say, the night went much better after that. Tyler Hopper "He’s a High Tech Redneck"

Response:

I’m going to wrap myself up in an aluminum tube manufactured by the Boeing company and have myself shipped to her door. If you do so you will arrive mushed, disheveled, discolored, and with a marred finish.  For your own sake and that of the dear lady use schedule 40 PVC!

… and by all means don’t use UPS! Yes!  Those brown trucks are hot.  Things will *shrivel*  or worse, *shrink*.    Sometimes they get flattened or bent. Dave L.

Response:

the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John Gentlemen, Gentleman, Gentlemen, take a sage word of advice from one who appreciates the fair sex with vigor. –(much wisdom snipped) Wayne

        thus spake zarathustra!  when hart speaks on the subject of women, only the unlucky fail to heed his words…         wayno

Response:

I’m going to wrap myself up in an aluminum tube manufactured by the Boeing company and have myself shipped to her door. If you do so you will arrive mushed, disheveled, discolored, and with a marred finish.  For your own sake and that of the dear lady use schedule 40 PVC!

… and by all means don’t use UPS!

Response:

Michael, re-reading my post, I apologize for a poor taste word selection. No slur was intended and it is in fact a great gift idea. jim

No worries Jim! I revel in the friendly "poking"! — Michael Era

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes        i know it is one hell of a judgment call, but i think that the experience related in wes’s post is more important than the life of that single fish.

        somewhere in the acceptance of that concept lies the middle ground for all our discontent that flows from the c&k/c&r confrontations.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry      i know it is one hell of a judgment call, but i think that the experience related in wes’s post is more important than the life of that single fish.         somewhere in the acceptance of that concept lies the middle ground for all our discontent that flows from the c&k/c&r confrontations.         a. wayne harrison

Jeeezz, Wayne, let’s not turn the great "Proud Papa" thread into another c&k/c&r debacle.  Mark Faulkner

Response:

says… My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

cool…

Response:

I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes    that’s great, wes, worm or no worm.  i just hope he didn’t release the fish and eat the bait.

        a. wayne harrison

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Congratulations, and thanks for sharing the momemnt. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

–snip– in my Vette.  

–snip– I drive an SUV just to prove that my penis extension is larger than yours. don’t it just piss ya off. hahahahaha |Bill and Dawn ‘94 Ford Bronco |               ‘85 Honda Magna V30       |               ‘72 Olds Cutlass Supreme | |Sure it’s an overgrown stationwagon. What’s your point? |   |Email address changed due to growing Auto-SPAM.

Response:

Sure, a 12 year old subaru = will get you to any ski area or through the worst weather Buffalo = has to offer, but it won’t make your neighbours go ‘oooh’.

Not this neighbor.  Try  

Question:

I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard! Thanks

Response:

I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard!

I attended my first meeting of the Gaithersburg, Md Chapter of TU last night. The guest speaker was a Professional Fly Casting Instructor whoes home waters are the Patapsco River which emptys into Baltimore Habor. He lives in Ellicott City, MD (on the Patapsco) and seemed very knowledgable. His name is Philip Krista (410-461-3007). — Alvin E. Crane 512 Suffield Drive Gaithersburg, MD 20878-2679 Voice: 301-208-8114  Fax: 301-208-8681

Response:

The Patapsco above Ellicott City (more specifically RT. 40 bridge to the dam at Daniels) is a ball to fish for smallmouths and redeyes.  It’s a small stream, easy to wade and full of fish.  Favorite stretch?  The 100 yard stretch below the island at the steel bridge at Old Frederick Rd.   The stream bed is full of junk tires, and there’s a bass in the middle of every one.  Yellow marabou muddler minnows, #6 or 8.  Don’t forget the Potomac River, either.  It’s within an hour of Baltimore, and great to float or wade.  

Response:

Question:

The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows 3.? or 95. It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can make it as simple or as detailed as you wish. Export data to other programs for analysis and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Registration has benefits but it is ready to go as is and you will probably agree with my wife that only a nut would give this away. Yes you CAN copy it onto diskettes and give it to your friends. If you dont they may not remain friendly. Just send me a Email for the ftp.site. I wont be bugging you for money. Unzips into about 7 megabytes. — *** Home of the Fishing Log ***

Response:

Just send me a Email for the ftp.site. I wont be bugging you for money.

Hi Robert,        Please inform me of the ftp site.        As you can see I am from England, at the good old age of 60, I have just taken up fly fishing.        The wife and I + two grand sons do a lot of caravan/camping in the summer and a few of the small rivers in the Dales where we camp have brown trout and grayling in them.        Cheers,

Response:

Will Email you later tonight. I know the feling well. Although I’ve been flyfishing all my life I never wrote anything like this before for free. Took me 2.5 months to do it ans some of the sessions were LOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGG! — *** Home of the Fishing Log ***

Response:

The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows 3.? or 95. It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in Just send me a Email for the ftp.site. I wont be bugging you for money. Unzips into about 7 megabytes. — *** Home of the Fishing Log ***

Yes but I am fed up seeing 6 postings a week from you , set up a web site and leave us in peace. Chris Cox

Response:

Question:

Hello! I’m about ready to buy a mess of flyfishing stuff on a budget. The rod, reel and line are my first consideration.  After several FF trips using an old fiberglass rod, and borrowing a Cabela’s Sweetwater outfit (8′ 6"  6wt  2pc  96% graphite), I believe the combo I want is a 8 foot, 4 piece, 4-5 weight with matching reel and line.  I want it small enough to perform well in small mountain streams (like in Shenandoah NP) as well as be satisfactory in as many other situations as possible.  4 piece cause I want to hike with it, moderate action.  So far my choices are:         From Cabelas ‘96 FF catalog:            1  Fish Eagle Traditional Combo   $153               8′ 4wt  4pc  moderate action                     walnut seats, silv plated hardware, stainless steel                   double foot snake guides (chrome finish).  Al oxide               stripper guide w ceramic insert               include cahill reel + cortland 333 line + backing            2  Willow Creek Pack Rod Combo    $90 !               8′ 4-5wt  4 pc  96% graph                 cahill reel + WF line + backing         3  St Croix 8′ 4-5wt mod action  Imperial travel Rod 4 pc            $135 rod only  SC33 Graphite (33m mod)            Any comments on these?  I’m kind of leaning toward the Fish Eagle Traditional right now.  I’m hoping to keep the whole deal around $100-200.  Any other suggestions?  How about Sage or Orvis low end stuff? T & T ? Next is the other essentials:  stockingfoots, boots, vest, glasses. I’d love for the stockingfoots and boots to be as packable as possible.   I’m pretty sure that the Cabelas 3mm neoprene stockingfoots and their Three Forks wading Boot are a decent choice.  How about their 2mm  SuperLite neoprene stockingfoots?  They say they are ideal for backpacking.  Are they durable and warm enough for three season use?  I heard that the actual foot area of the waders are a little vulnerable (3mm).  3mm = $60, 2mm = $70, Three Forks = $45. Cabelas entry level Willow Creek Vest sounds reasonable for $40.  I don’t want too many pockets to mess with, just something simple comfortable and durable.  It says it has a rear pouch, but is it zippered?   Cabelas Pro Angler Sunglasses for $15?  Decent? Any suggestions and comments are appreciated! Pls email replies. C’mooooooooon spring. Thanks, Jim — The above opinions are factual.

Response:

Hello! I’m about ready to buy a mess of flyfishing stuff on a budget. The rod, reel and line are my first consideration.  After several FF trips using an old fiberglass rod, and borrowing a Cabela’s

etc. Personally, I would stick to one of the lower Orvis or LL Bean packages. You can save some money and get good merchandise. Other good choices other than the ones you mentioned are Scott and Lamiglas. I don’t think Lamiglas gets enough "press" as they make some good rods.  You might be best off (in my humble opinion) in spending more for the rod now, and get a cheap reel. Unless you are battling Salmon or Bonefish, the reel is only a place to store the line. You could always use it for an extra when you get a better reel. I am still using the old Orvis madison reel I bought 15 years ago, but it mounts on one of my Winston rods. I’ve never really had the desire to replace it. But then again, I am still driving the new car I bought in 1984 too!

Response:

I’ve been very satisfied with my 5 weight Loomis combined with an inexpensive but well crafted scientific anglers reel.  The two totaled together around $300.  LL Bean makes a pretty good rod.  But stay away

Please tell us more about your opinion of Bean’s reels.  Have you had problems with them?

Response:

At one time they sold some reals made by STH in Argentina…as did Orvis…and from what I saw they were not very good reels

Response:

Question:

   Does anyone have any experience fly fishing for Coho salmon in streams feeding Lake Ontario? I’m looking for info on what flies to try…maybe what streams have been productive (From the Ganaraska eastward)

Fly pattern matters much less than being able (1) to locate a fish and then (2) present fly on the fish’s own level, usually at bottom.  While cruising in rivermouth lagoons they will aggressively hit any stramer: when resting on bottom, you will probably need lead to get deep enough. But locating fish remains #1 (take Polaroids and avoid disturbed water.) For flies, you need only a streamer made with genuine Polar Bear (e.g. Parma belle.), a big nymph e.g. Hexagenia, and an egg fly (or pompon.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

   Does anyone have any experience fly fishing for Coho salmon in streams feeding Lake Ontario? I’m looking for info on what flies to try…maybe what streams have been productive (From the Ganaraska eastward) Thanks in advance. ttyl

Response:

Question:

A while back I saw some info on the TMA on the Housatonic in Northern CT. including a phone number for latest info.  I hope to have a chance to fish there Sept. 10 and 11.  Any info and that phone number would be appreciated. Thanks. Tom G.

Response:

To answer a previous inquiry, for information about fly fishing in the trout management area of the Housatonic River in northwestern Connecticut, try calling the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop in Cornwall, Connecticut at 203-672-6064.  Good luck! Mark Melnick Stamford, Connecticut, USA

Response:

To answer a previous inquiry, for information about fly fishing in the trout management area of the Housatonic River in northwestern Connecticut, try calling the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop in Cornwall, Connecticut at 203-672-6064.  Good luck! Mark Melnick Stamford, Connecticut, USA

The owner of the HMFS is Phil .. Phil pointed out a nice spot for us this spring, and we ended up the day with a few nice smallmouth and a 16" rainbow, plus watched others get some nice ones. you can also look at the CT fishing page http://metro.turnpike.net/J/jfagan/index.html

Response:

A while back I saw some info on the TMA on the Housatonic in Northern CT. including a phone number for latest info.  I hope to have a chance to fish there Sept. 10 and 11.  Any info and that phone number would be appreciated.

The best source is the Housatonic Fly Fishermen’s Association’s recording at 203 248-8616.  However, unless we get some good rain in the next week, you really should stay off the Housie:  water levels are too low and the water temperature is too hot, with the result that the fish get overstressed when caught and have a poor likelihood of survival even with the most caring resuscitation.  

Response:

(203) 248-8616

Response:

Haven’t been to river but my guess is it’s unfishable due to drought.Fish move to mouths of cold feeder creeks which are closed to fishing. Anyway, info number is 203 248 8616. Better bet is Farmington River from Riverton downstream to New Hartford. Water remains cold ’cause it’s dam-fed. Info number 860  738 7327. Brian Matthews

Response:

Haven’t been to river but my guess is it’s unfishable due to drought.

I drove down Rte 7 along the TMA today, Saturday, 9/3, and stopped at a few places to look at the water.  I have never seen it so low; barely a trickle. Rocks I’d never seen before were fully exposed.  A couple of jerks were ffing in the Church Pool, but there seemed little risk that they’d catch anything.  Otherwise I think I would have jumped in and splashed around just to put down any trout that might have been thinking of lunch. This river should not be fished until after we’ve had some rain and cooler weather.

Response:

Question:

I’d like to her from someone in each State:  What are the water access laws in your State?  Doesn’t need to be long, but concise would be nice. Email or post.  Colorado is exempt from this request, as I already know. Thanx. –Chris

Response:

As far as Maine goes, water access is not very clear.  There is not one set of laws that cover rivers, lakes, great ponds, and their flowages.  The state owns the land under a Great Pond (10 acres if natural, 30 acres if man-made) and you have the right to cross private, undeveloped land to get access – IF you cross by foot for the purposes of fishing or fowling. No vehicles, no mechanical aids (wheels under a canoe are out), etc.  Developed land includes fields planted with commercial crops, so you can’t cross a wheat or corn field to get to the pond either. You also have the right to canoe any navigable water.  Navigable means it can float a log.  The right does NOT include access to the bottom of the river, nor does it include the right to go around obstructions like waterfalls – even if you stay below the high water mark. Fly fisherman cannot by law walk up any stream bed they choose – even if the water is navigable.  Canoeist cannot legally get out of their canoe and line, jump on a rock, or wade through a shallow – although this is not enforced anywhere I know of. Dams and their flowages are owned by the dam owner, and they can post them no tresspass, so you cannot walk around the dam to get access to the river below. Most do not, and on popular runs, the dam owners either provide, or let volunteer groups maintain portage paths around the dam to avoid indiscriminate damage to their property.  The legal liability of this access may cause more dam owners to post their property in the future.   Many people in the state operate under the position that anything under the high water mark in a river is fair game and that you can carry around obstacles.  This is not the case (according to the Parks and Recreation office) and you are trespassing when you do this.  Maine land owners are fairly tolerant of canoeists however, and so we get away with this. The laws that are in affect in Maine are a conglomeration of multiple colonial ordinances that are still in affect since the time when Maine was part of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, something called the "Great Pond Act" and various court rulings over the years.   I have asked the reference librarian at the state law library for help.  If I get any better clarification on this I’ll let you know. Regards, -Tim

Response:

This would probably be better answered by someone with more law knowledge than me, but I haven’t seen anyone answer for California so I thought I’d post what I know.  I seem to remember that the there was a major legal battle concerning public access along the South Fork of the American in California (sometime in the late 70’s?).  The private land owners along some sections of it actually tried to get river rafting completely banned from the river.  The result of the long and ugly battle was that the South Fork of the American was considered a navigatable waterway and therefore the private owners cannot restrict boating traffic on the river.  Rafters also legally have access to land up to the high water mark.  Despite the legal rights of boaters to be there, the section of river with most of the populated private property (ie. nice riverfront houses) has been designated as a "quiet zone".  In the "quiet zone", boaters are supposed to speak in normal conversation and not yell or have waterfights.  Also, out of respect to the landowners, boaters are supposed to choose state owned lands for lunch spots (and their are plenty of adequate places to stop that are not privately owned). Unfortunately I have no idea what the access laws are in Pennsylvania (the state where I currently live). Lori

Response:

So far I have: Colorado New Mexico California Arkansas Main Keep them coming.  This important information. –Chris

Response:

Here’s a quick summary of the Arkansas Access situation. From……Arkansas Riparian Boundaries           Richard L. Elgin and David R. Knowles           Surveying and Mapping, Vol. 44, No. 1, 1984, pp. 39-57      "Until the recent decision of State v. McIlroy (268 Ark. 227) (1980), the Arkansas navigability criteria rested on the watercourse’s commercial viability.      In State v. McIlroy, supra, the definition and commerce test for navigability was broadened to include recreational use. The case concerns the navigability of the Mulberry River, a favorite with canoeists, McIlroy, owner of land on both sides of the Mulberry River, sought a lower court ruling that he be declared the owner of the bed of the Mulberry River since the river was nonnavigable. The defendants were the Ozark Society, a conservationist group, and two companies that rent canoes for use on the Mulberry. The defendants generally claimed that the Mulberry was a navigable stream, but that even if the court found otherwise, a public easement in the Mulberry should be recognized.      The lower court found that the Mulberry River was nonnavigable, that the McIlroys owned it as riparian property owners, and that they could prevent the public from using the stream (the McIlroys owning both sides).      The State, the Ozark Society, and one of the canoe companies appealed to the Arkansas Supreme Court." From the record:      The facts presented prove that the Mulberry River at the point in question is capable of recreational use and has been used extensively for recreational uses. We must now decide whether such a stream is navigable.      While navigation in fact is widely regarded as the proper test of navigability…it is a test which should not be applied too literally… Arkansas has adopted a standard definition of navigability. Lutesville Sand & Gravel Co. v. McLaughlin, supra. The test, which was similiar to the general test used by the federal courts, defines navigability in terms of a river’s potential for commercial usefulness; that is whether the water could be used to remove the products of the surrounding land to another place…      Therefore, a river is legally navigable if actually navigable and actually navigable if commercially valuable. (The court predicted that the waters of the state would be used to a much greater extent for recreational purposes than they were at the time of the decision (1915). The court observed that since that time no case had been before them that "involved the public’s right to use a stream which has recreational value, but lacks commercial adaptability in the traditional sense." The Court said the Arkansas definition was "remnant of the steamboat era.") Concluding, the majority decision concerning the navigability of the Mulberry, the Court said:      Arkansas, as most states in their infancy, was mostly concerned with river traffic by steamboats or barges when cases like Lutesville, supra, were decided. We have had no case regarding recreational use of waters such as the Mulberry. It may be that our decisions did or did not anticipate such use of streams which are suitable, as the Mulberry is, for recreational use. Such use would include flatbottomed boats for fishing and canoes for floating – or both. There is no doubt that the segment of the Mulberry River that is involved in this lawsuit can be used for a substantial portion of the year for recreational purposes. Consequently, we hold that it is navigable at that place with all the incidental rights of that determination. In follow up, this case set the precedent which almost every paddler in the state knows about and several carry copies of the ruling in their shuttle rigs, however, there still remains landowners weilding guns, who insist on the respect of their ownership. As with many other states paddlers here backdown, avoiding confrontation many times. Currently most of the hairy runs either begin or end on private property and we have to be very careful here, even though we have an excellent precedent set by the courts. — Shelby D. Johnson,    Research Specialist         TEL: (501) 575-6159 CAST, Center for Advanced Spatial Technologies    FAX: (501) 575-5218   12 Ozark Hall, University of Arkansas

Response:

What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup. -Dennis

Response:

What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup.

I’m trying to find what the legal river access is in each state.  So far I have: Colorado New Mexico Alaska Arkansas Main California I know people paddle in more states than that….. –Chris

Response:

Question:

        Writing again about a flyfishing newsgroup…         My news server is running very slow so all the articles I see are 6 days old.  I got on another server recently and read more recent articles, so I’m posting again.  Excuse me if I’m writing something outdated now-         From what I see, there are people who don’t want to create a flyfishing newsgroup, and I can respect that.  Yes, someone pointed out that instead of having 50 email messages sent in one day you can get them all at once, which is nice.  I think I still like the idea of creating a newsgroup on the subject.  I don’t think it will detract from Rec.outdoors.fishing, and the bass fishermen will probably be happy to be rid of some of the flyfishing articles here.         From what I remember, technically we need to have some sort of organized discussion- just like we’re doing now.  Then, we have to have a vote.  I think there has to be a minimum number of votes, and the "ayes" have to outnumber the "nays" by a good amount (100 votes?).         I’m kind of busy for another week or so, and like I’ve said- I’m no expert here.  Is there some flyfishing sys admin who could help us set it up?  Or email me and I’ll do it myself?  If you don’t think we should have a new newsgroup, that’s fine.  But, you certainly can’t be against having a discussion and vote, right?         Thanks- -Jeff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Writing again about a flyfishing newsgroup…    My news server is running very slow so all the articles I see are 6 days old.  I got on another server recently and read more recent articles, so I’m posting again.  Excuse me if I’m writing something outdated now-    From what I see, there are people who don’t want to create a flyfishing newsgroup, and I can respect that.  Yes, someone pointed out that instead of having 50 email messages sent in one day you can get them all at once, which is nice.  I think I still like the idea of creating a newsgroup on the subject.  I don’t think it will detract from Rec.outdoors.fishing, and the bass fishermen will probably be happy to be rid of some of the flyfishing articles here.    From what I remember, technically we need to have some sort of organized discussion- just like we’re doing now.  Then, we have to have a vote.  I think there has to be a minimum number of votes, and the "ayes" have to outnumber the "nays" by a good amount (100 votes?).

  Technically, any discussion on here is pretty much a waste of time if   the true intent is to alter/create newsgroups and/or their structure.   Your efforts would be better spent in the news.- forums, because   that is where these things are decided.   Personally, I just don’t see the traffic in either alt.fishing or   rec.outdoors.fishing that would indicate the need for further   subdivision.  The fact that the flyfish listserv does carry a lot of   traffic is totally irrelevant to any discussion of usenet newsgroups –   they just aren’t related.  And who says bass fisherman don’t also   flyfish? — Northern Trust Co.  Chicago, IL |  DoD #97779  88 FLHTC

Response:

Certainly the list-server will NOT be shut down for a varity of reasons, not to mention that some folks do not have access to a news server – only e-mail. I do think we need to pursue the creation of rec.fishing.flyfishing or whatever. Thomas Gilg First, let me clarify that I’m NOT proposing we terminate the flyfishing listserv. I do remain concerned however at the listserv’s explosive growth, and the ability of the list maintainer and we readers to keep up with it.           Flyfish Listserv Post Statistics for 11/92 thru 2/94       1000        950                                          *        900        850    p   800    o   750                                             + (half month)    s   700    t   650                              *    s   600                                       *        550                  *              *  *        500        450        400               *     *  *  *        350        300            *        250        200         *        150      *        100   *        50 *           11 12 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 1  2           1992                 1993                 1994                            month and year I loved the group *the way it was*, but times are changing, and none of us can change that fact.   Question is, what should we do?    I see several opportunities:    o Get more leverage from NEWS    o Find tools which help e-mail only users deal with the traffic.    o Setup services that give users visibility into the forums they      currently don’t have access to.    o Figure out how WWW/Mosaic might help us. Other options (I’m not endorsing) include:    o Restricted list servers    o Subgrouped flyfish listserv’s What it all comes down to: how do we manage the unstoppable growth, changes and limits we’re seeing in the electronic flyfishing forums? Thomas Gilg

Response: