Question:

I was thinking of giving the pond a go at Wansford. Have you ever fished in the fly fishing part of the Canal? I am not sure if it is stil fly fishing only. I used to fish the normal bait part and there used to be some great Grayling in there. This was about 10 years ago mind you. A friend from work fishes Wykeham Lake at Scarborough quite a lot so I am going to give it a go also. I have done a bit of course fishing there also. Also maybe the lake at Pickering which I think is quite ‘easy’ for beginners.

I fished the pond at Wansford once last Oct.  It was a windy day and I managed 6 fish.  The pond is quite an unusual shape,  much like the letter U,  though it is fed at one end with water running in from the canal nearby. The trout station themselves in the  manner of stream trout at the feeding end,  though the flow is not so apparent in the rest of the pond,  as the depth deepens.   I looked at the canal near the post office,  and it was gin clear.  I enquired in the post office about the prospects of trouting, though I was told that there were no trout in this bit.  I asked him if he was sure that there were no trout,  and he told me that the whole  section had been electrofished recently,  and there were only 4 trout found.  I did drive up towards Driffield,  and see  "Flyfishing Only"  signs a couple of miles away from Wansford,  so I imagine that there might be some good prospects further towards Driffield.  When the spring comes,  I might conduct some further research in this area. The lake at Pickering is extremely easy for beginners indeed.  One day I went fishing with my Pa.  As we  set off from the house,  I foolishly told my Ma not to bother with food for the evening, as my Pa and I  would provide the food!  On arriving at the river  (Derwent near Hackness  (Scarborough)) my father and I were totally dismayed to see it in spate.  My Pops sarcastically suggested that I would be eating my words for my supper that night.   Mmm,  we thought,  "what can we do?"  We  would look rather silly if we came home with no fish, and after a little thought,  concluded  that Pickering is not too far away… . We certainly brought home a lot of fish  upto 7lbs.  Whilst we were getting our catch weighed in,  we asked the guy how many fish are stocked in his lake,  as there were very obviously a lot of fish in there.  We were told that in the summer in peak season,  upto 2000 fish a day are put in!!!! I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. I would love to join you at some time. Dinner or tea on me of course..

Cheers,  I’ll fix a day in May sometime.   The river is quite small (just over 1cubic metre per second mean annual flow),  though it is quite diverse over the 6 miles continuous double bank.  I like the river a lot,  and the trout are all wild.  What size rod did you get? All you’ll need is thigh waders, rod & reel. I can supply the appropriate flies if you want.  One thing though,  if you wear glasses/spectacles/contact lenses,  be sure to bring them,  as keen sightedness is essential! If you would like to read more about the rivers I fish,  and see photos of the river,  plus fish and read some text,  check out my website (completely non-commercial,  pure hobby stuff only)  for a log of my days out last season.   http://www.snapper.karoo.net/index.htm Keep in touch,  and I’ll get a day’s fishing arranged. Regards, Mike.

Response:

There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there .

I was thinking of giving the pond a go at Wansford. Have you ever fished in the fly fishing part of the Canal? I am not sure if it is stil fly fishing only. I used to fish the normal bait part and there used to be some great Grayling in there. This was about 10 years ago mind you. A friend from work fishes Wykeham Lake at Scarborough quite a lot so I am going to give it a go also. I have done a bit of course fishing there also. Also maybe the lake at Pickering which I think is quite ‘easy’ for beginners. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer.

I would love to join you at some time. Dinner or tea on me of course.. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Appreciate it – thanks, Steve

Response:

Plus, I’d bet, based on the description, he has the "755" (or the larger 756?), which, IIRC, comes with 3 spools, no? Either way, you’ve got fine enough gear to learn on and enjoy, at what, around 100 UK/150US?  Trust me, you’re got decent gear at a reasonable value for price.  Hey, who needs their name on a Winston…

I fished my first 12 years of flyfishing with a battered rimfly reel,  a cheapo 8.5 foot #5,  and a flyline that was old before I even got it.  I chuckle when I look at the rod now,  as all the rings are seriously grooved, and the tip hayfork is nearly worn through!  However,  that being said,  it worked "ok" at the time,  I caught my fish and had my fun with it.

Response:

If you want a day on the Driffield Beck, drop me a mail.  I may be able to ease your waiting list problems as well, I am still a member of several clubs with fishing in the area, and where I am not a member my brother is. I can not promise of course, but you never know. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist. Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve Ah,  really smart,  I live about 20 miles away  (N. Ferriby),  and frequently drive through HC.  Have you taken a look at the Driffield Beck system of chalkstreams?  They are truly fantastic.  I once fished on DB at the club there,  but I was only ten  and fished with my father as he was a guest for the day.  I am on the waiting list,  but it will be a long time before I get to fish there. There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there . I actually do the vast bulk of my flyfishing in the streams up near Ripon, or down near Ashbourne,  and these are very nice waters.  I am a memeber of 2 clubs that allow me fishing on about 15 miles of 4 rivers (Dove, Mannifold, Ure & Laver) Now and then I will go up to Scotland to fish the wonderful waters there,  but Yorkshire & Derbyshire has a lot to offer nonetheless. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Response:

Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist.

Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve

Response:

Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist. Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve

Ah,  really smart,  I live about 20 miles away  (N. Ferriby),  and frequently drive through HC.  Have you taken a look at the Driffield Beck system of chalkstreams?  They are truly fantastic.  I once fished on DB  at the club there,  but I was only ten  and fished with my father as he was a guest for the day.  I am on the waiting list,  but it will be a long time before I get to fish there. There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there . I actually do the vast bulk of my flyfishing in the streams up near Ripon, or down near Ashbourne,  and these are very nice waters.  I am a memeber of 2 clubs that allow me fishing on about 15 miles of 4 rivers (Dove, Mannifold, Ure & Laver) Now and then I will go up to Scotland to fish the wonderful waters there,  but Yorkshire & Derbyshire has a lot to offer nonetheless. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Response:

.  Hey, who needs their name on a Winston… Winston?   If it wasn

Question:

Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about?

But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary.  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

Hiya Dave,  please refer back to my previous post and tell me if I understand your split shot method.  Forgive me if I am wrong,  but it would appear to me at least that you didn’t read all my post.  I think I have the jist of the method you speak of,  but would appreciate it if you’d confirm either way.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary. <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

Snip Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO

I assume that the drag that you speak of is the actual dressing of the fly? Obviously the split shot, round and smooth, has little to impart upon the surrounding water.  The copper PT nymphs that I use also are quite "streamlined", and don’t seem to have much drag, or resistance to the water. That is why I like them a lot,  as you can quite effectively get them to the right depth and location even in the tricky waters. However, the drag that you speak of,  you also relate to the "dry fly drag". To me, dry fly drag is the movement of the fly over the surface of the water, brought about by the line "bellying", as cross currents pull on the line.  It is possible to get bad drag when casting directly upstream, particularly in pool tails where the outflow rapids pull (push) on the line, and cause the fly to skate over the water’s surface.  Of course,  this "drag" will be applied to a sunken fly too,   it causes the nymph to travel quite quickly through the water.  This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? I personally have never used split shot,  neither have I used indicators, nor even the dry fly dropper that is said to be a great indicator.  (Whilst keen sight persists, I shall always prefer the simplicity of the greased leader and the single chosen fly.)  The stream that I favour to fish is very overgrown,  and is difficult to fish in a lot of places even with a 7 footer (I just got a 6 footer and really counting the days to next April) and one fly on a 9 ft leader to 2lb tippet.  Although I’ve never tried the split shot,  I will still believe that for me at least, the single Sawyer copper PT nymph & greased leader is the best option that I know of.  That being said,  I will always like to check out new techniques,  and hence my interest on this matter. I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

Response:

Michael, yours is a very good description of how I’ve always assumed that a split shot (or a heavily weighted fly) mitigates the drag on an unweighted fly below it.  I completely gave up on split shot some time ago in favor of a bead head or other weighted fly to get another, usually much smaller, fly down.  I started doing this when I began fishing some rivers here in Oregon that allow multiple-fly rigs but do not allow "any added weight" applied to the leader or line.  (Folks quickly learned how to get around this rule!).  The bonus is that although most fish take the fly on the point, sometimes one (usually larger than the norm) will take the anchor, which never happens, of course, with split shot.  The draw-back is that it’s harder and more time consuming to adjust the position of the anchor fly along the length of the leader.  One option is to use a fly with a very big eye and attached it with a sort of loop-to-loop connection to the fly, as one does with the new yarn indicators that have a little plastics loop on them. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – beginning snipped I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

Response:

I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? [snip] Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required?

The Czech nymphs that I were given seem to be less fluffy than American Nymphs, but to answer your question, the damn things go down faster than a Times Square whore. As to the relative merits of copper vs tungsten, I think tungsten being denser helps thing sink quicker but quicker is not always better. Presentation and mending to reduce drag count for more in my little book. As to bonus of 3 flies vs 2 or one, that’s just the method. some folks have problems with it, I know I did at first but with practice things seem to work OK most of the time but I’ve been known to get a wind knot while tying on a new fly. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

Response:

Question:

6, 7, or 8

Probably my choice would be a 6 on a calm day and a 7 wt for anything blowing that annoys . . . both loaded with shooting heads. — George G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

I usually have my clients use a 7 or 8 weight rod with an Airflo clear intermediate line. What is the best weight fly rod for Redfish and Speckeled trout?

– Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Guided flyfishing on the Roanoke River and the Crystal Coast of NC out of Atlantic Beach/Morhead City/Beaufort.

Response:

I usually have my clients use a 7 or 8 weight rod with an Airflo clear intermediate line.

_______  An 8 WT is just too much work Gordon.  I would rather punch a 7 with an 8 WT shooting head.  Of course, specks don’t spook as much anyhow and the casts don’t have to be that long for them as with Tarps, Snook (my favorite) etc. — MrG. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html (shop site)   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

What is the best weight fly rod for Redfish and Speckeled trout?

Response:

6, 7, or 8

Response:

Question:

Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town to see if they can’t treat the Nittany Lions the same way they did the Iowa Hawkeyes last weekend.  God, I hope not. For all the talk a few weeks ago regarding this game, a potential Autumn mini-clave here in central PA, and a few flames about OT posts– there are no plans for any fishing to actually taking place.  This is really too bad, because the weather is going to be perfect.  Not too cold, the leaves are past their prime but still beautiful, and the days are still reasonably long.  However, I have no idea how to catch trout on a fly in this weather… Ken, I tried and tried to find tickets between the 20s but to no avail.  I would really have enjoyed meeting and doing some Sunday fishing with you.  As luck would have it, none of the half-dozen folks who I *know* have tickets were willing to part with them or had already given them to somebody else–it is homecoming after all, even if the Nittany Lions are having a down year.  Ironically, my Aunt called my wife from work just this afternoon with an offer of two tickets to tomorrows game…  I have no idea if they are between the 20s, or even within sight of the field–hell, with a capacity of nearly 100,000 the term ‘nosebleed seats’ takes on some signifigance at Beaver Stadium. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State! Tom Before you buy.

Response:

Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town …

I’ll be watchin’ the game on ESPN2, your Nittany Lions are 3 point favorites according the official ROFF Latest Line and once again Wayno has managed to wheedle an unreal point spread for his Tar Heels. Eighteen and one half friggin’ points he gets against Clemson, it’s a gawdamn Chardonnay conspiracy I tell ya. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State!

Likewise, Tom. Enjoy your weekend and don’t let a little thing like a homecoming loss spoil your fun. Oskee Wow Wow ! — Ken Fortenberry- sluggin’ Bud and hatin’ 11 a.m. kickoffs

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

:All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse: These anchor control pulleys are great, but the single point of control often results in the stern being swung back and forth by the current or the wind.   We use the motor at the square stern of the canoe to act as a rudder.  When we are in rocky rivers (and hence no motor), I just use plastic bar bells and a small piece of chain, like one other poster mentioned, and drop a line off the stern.  The stern anchor doesn’t have to be very heavy, but the line has to be tight to dampen the pendulum effect.  I just tie it off the back; no anchor control necessary. JB

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I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Well…if you’re not portaging …grab a large coffee can..fill it with cement/concrete…stick in a large eye bolt.  The can will pick up far less muck when in a weedy/muddy bottomed pond/bog/lake. $.02, steve d.

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: All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected : to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the : mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor. :  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   : Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea : and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to : haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are : already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba : divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. : Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could : cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. : Dave LaCourse Hi; As a Illinois EPA volunteer, we go out often. We’ve been out in days when we have waves coming over the sides of our kayak. We use a two seater and one person handles the anchor (which we just drop over the side) and writes the results and the other (me) lowers the secchi disk and leans over the opposite side (from anchor) of the kayak to take measurments. We do end up going back to work sometimes smelling kind bad, but we have yet to tip… — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

Scott, he’s also been known to use his fishing partner. Peter (promising never to call it an "aluminum monstrosity" again)

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I tie a 5 pound maul (sledge hammer) off the back.  Easy to lift and adjust. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken,    The holes in the onion sack are too big to put corn in. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Scott, FLOAT TUBE ANCHOR SYSTEM: www.woodrivercompany.com/accessor.htm I have one of these for my float tube and I use with the canoe also…I really like it and I don’t have to haul those muddy rocks that dirty and scratch up my precious and prestine Old Town canoe (that looks like it was dropped by UPS…..Cargo Jet, that is). Padishar Creel

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use a 1 gal detergent jug filled with sand. You might want two, for when you want to keep the craft sideways to the wind. Pops **** Armed and Safe(tm) **** "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.   By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation."

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: How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps : moving you off your spot? Thanks! I have a <ducking head JetSki anchor that I bought from Overton’s.  It’s small, comes with it’s own storage bag and has a little float on the end just incase you lose the rope.  It also has a clip so I just loop it over a thwart and clip it on. P.S. I do not own a jetski — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing

Hey Scott, I like to use a plastic barbell weight,about eight pounds.I tie a rope through the center and tie the end to the center support bar in mycanoe.The good thing about the barbell weight is because it.s round it’s not likely to hang up on anything.If your anchor hangs up even the least little bit you will have trouble freeing it without flipping your canoe.When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position.If you lean over the side to haul the anchor you will soon find yourself and all your equipment in the water. Good Luck,Shawn

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I use an onion sack full of rocks.

Yeah, but what yuppie boy isn’t telling you is that those rocks were individually swallowed and pooped out by a rare strain of African wildebeast. Helps ‘em sink faster apparently. –Steve (don’t worry Ken, I’ll get one with a large fridge)

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Scott,   I also like the rock in an onion sack solution, it doesn’t take up much space when not in use so I usually have it with the canoe.   However, I would not tie it to one of the center thwarts.  If there is a current, or a strong wind, this can tip a canoe over.  Also it it easier to tip a canoe when raising the anchor.  It is better to tie to the end of the canoe, I have a carry handle at the bow and stern of my 18′ Wenonah.  It is inconvenient to raise and lower if I am by myself, but I have had a sudden breeze come up and have been happier. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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Reminds me of my first scuba diving buddy (a college roommate). He insisted that he always carried a scuba knife and dove with a partner for safety reasons. That way, if he saw a shark, he could stab his buddy and swim for shore.

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 i use old window sash weights.  lead bars about 10 inches long with hole already in the end for your cord.  rig pulley off front and you can hold canoe in place during ‘gentle’ winds. fishworship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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<snip When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position. <snip I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

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Question:

For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  

When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t suppose it depends upon the scales? — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjul00.html

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

City boy<g. Why when I was in school… — Charlie…

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G.

Really. One time I filled an Evian bottle with tap water and put it back in the refrigerator. My wife and kids never noticed the difference, but man were they pissed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people?

Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  Poor people who will not take charity.  Basically I’m someone who’s decided not to give money to charitable organizations (through a third party).  (I’ve done *work* for charitable organizations.) But, I’d happily buy a meal or give a gift to a poor family if I could find people who are actually poor and would accept something without finding me condascending.  This has happened to me, but the more I think about it, not often enough.  How do you find a person truly in need, and how would you actually approach them? Regards, Jeff

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way.

You had schools???  We used to sleep in a shoe box, and had to get up a half hour before we went to bed.  For breakfast we got a lump of cold poison. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

And you know what that spells backward….  :-) Regards, Jeff

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Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  

Giving money to panhandlers is the equivalent of feeding the bears at Yellowstone Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows?

Maybe so.  But I would still gladly buy a poor person a meal but not give money to some guy who profits from the transaction.  And I would rather buy someone a meal than give them the money.  It just pisses me off when I get scammed.  Just 2 weeks ago a guy in the parking lot of a supermarket told me his car broke down and he had to get his wife and daughter back home on the bus that night, so could he have enough money to pay for the 3 tickets.  As I was pondering this, it finally dawned on me that this was the same guy I gave money to almost exactly a year before, with the exact same shpiel (shp?) So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Regards, Jeff

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<good story snipped Nice story Mike.  Hopefully you will post this one to your website. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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"Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Surprisingly enough Ernie, you can live for a week or even considerably longer, on more or less nothing. Problems arise when this continues for long periods, and one is forced to eat stuff that one would not normally touch. I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days.  "Scraps" are the remains of fish, chips, batter etc soaked in lard, which are scraped out of the large frying pans used in fish and chip shops when they are cleaned. A bucket full cost a couple of pennies, and there was often a queue for this stuff.  I only ever ate the stuff a couple of times, but I can taste it still, and even the smell makes me feel ill.  I can not stomach even entering a fish and chip shop to this day, and I remember my wife being very surprised when we visited London once and she wanted to try fish and chips, and I simply could not stay in the queue which had  formed at the counter, as I was in severe danger of throwing up.  This sort of thing plays hell with peoples health as well.  It may not have appeared so in my story, but I was indeed one of the lucky ones, I had the means and the drive to go and catch fish, "find" "wayward" sheep, and even go and dig up "wild" potatoes or vegetables, or collect fruit and stuff in summer,  should this prove necessary. I also collected seacoal and wood, from the beaches, so we always had something to burn in winter, which was much more than many others had, and we never actually got anywhere even close to starving or freezing.  Although some I knew got close to it. Many of the people I knew at that time were sunk so deeply in apathy as a result of their poverty, that they could not help themselves, and even under those conditions, some were far too proud to accept "charity".  What little money they received from various sources, usually social security or similar, was often wasted in vain attempts at momentary escape from their respective plights, or even astoundingly enough,  pathetic attempts at "keeping up the show". Drunkenness was common, and many a wife and child beating took place, when some men lucky enough to have them, came home from their jobs late on a Friday night, after having drunk most of their relatively meagre pay in the local pubs. They were often also poorly educated, reviled by other sections of the community, and generally treated like dirt. Poverty is a deadly disease, it saps ones energy, removes any perspective of improvement for many, releases large amounts of criminal energy, mostly driven by hopelessness, and the feeling that things can get no worse anyway, whatever one does, often induces a positive fear of authority, and inevitably results in an early grave, as it did for both my father and my mother, and many many others I knew at that time. It may also reveal facets of human nature that are not normally obvious, not all of which are negative. A little kindness may cost a man of means virtually nothing, but may go a very long way to helping somebody far less fortunate. The world would be a far better place if some were bound to wonder as you did, how one may live on oranges for a week, and then consider those who did not even have the oranges, and in many places still do not. One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

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Mike,    I can understand why you would dislike fish and chips to this day. I had some at Ramsdens (sp?) in Northern England which were excellent. Ernie "Mike Connor" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days <snip TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC – .

And, indeed, Mike, you honor us all by doing so.  You certainly do not need my encouragement to continue your course, but you have it, nonetheless. Bravo! Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC

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Perhaps we are just perverse?

At the risk of having Ernie thump me on the head again I will repeat something I posted some time ago on ROFF.   It has been my experience that to most in America being hungry means trying to remember the last time you missed a meal.  In fact, being hungry means trying to remember the last time you HAD a good meal. Who’s perverse?

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An excellent analysis.  One other point occurred to me. Referring to a particular group of society as "the poor", is one of the reasons why people find it easy to avoid any identification with those so afflicted, it is easy to forget that we are talking about people here,  and the word itself is a stigma. As for many politicians, well I think it probably better to refrain from comment, waste of time anyway. Hardly seems worth the trouble criticising people who mainly appear to tell lies, and manipulate others for a living. If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows? I have not been hungry for a very long time either, but curiously enough, just like you, I remember exactly what it was like. In fact I remember it far more clearly than any of the times I have been ripped off, (also uncountable I fear),  or sat at sumptuous meals in equally sumptuous surroundings. Perhaps we are just perverse? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm,

        (snip)         simply amazing.  very, very few of us have ever been to that place. wayno

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Well, to paraphrase: Give a boy a fish and he feeds himself, teach him to fish, and he feeds a village… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Secondly, if you want to know how much a fish is worth, wait until you and your family are hungry, and carry a sackfull on your back to feed them. This will doubtless colour any subsequent ideas you might have on the matter considerably. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

So would a speller checker on this newsreader!!! Peter

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.

I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different. Regards, Jeff

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help. I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different.

Yes, there are cheats and slackers and no, it’s not part of the problem.  There are cheats and slackers in congress, in corporate offices, in academia, in churches, and in every other segment of society.  No one wants to dismantle any of these and no one thinks seriously about punishing them all for the sins of the few.  I repeat, it’s not part of the problem….it’s a different problem.  You are right about one thing; the people with the greatest means to help the poor generally do not live in close proximity.  Even when they do though, it is generally not the people with the greatest means who do the most to help.  Must be afraid of getting ripped off……might make them late for dinner. For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  I lost over forty pounds in that time and spent most of my time doing virtually nothing for lack of energy or incentive.  This is not a lament.  Unlike many millions of people around the world (and even here in the richest country in the history of the world) I always had options.  Eventually, I availed myself of an opportunity to get plugged back into the mainstream.  I have never been truly hungry since 1975, but I remember.  I’ve been ripped off lots of times since then….given money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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[reality snipped] When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.  Our current premier once remarked that single welfare mothers spend their money on beer.  One of his first acts was to substantially reduce both welfare payouts and eligibilty, putting many people onto the street.  He’s now out to privatise co-op housing – putting more on the street.  I can’t help thinking that a week of subsiting on a bucket of scraps would help his perspective immensely. Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm, pulling the collar up around my neck once more, I snuggled into the corner of the life-belt storage cupboard, and tried to think warm.  Walking the six miles or so along the clifftops and climbing down to the pier had kept me warm enough, and I had not really noticed how cold it was, but I was noticing now alright! Climbing up the icy steel pier legs in the pre-dawn dark with my gear had even caused me to start sweating, and I was paying for that now too. Cold sweat is very cold indeed.  Frosty clouds formed every time I exhaled, and the freezing spray from the stormy sea had soaked me fairly well through from the other side of my clothing as well. Nobody else was on the pier, quite unusual, as the tides were quite propitious, and the recent storms would almost certainly have brought some cod or whiting, and perhaps a few other fish closer in.  Leaving my temporary shelter, I moved out into the full force of the wind and spray, and surveyed the scene, dark clouds, swirling angry seas, and a long procession of heavy breakers crashing against the pier, causing it to  sway ominously under my feet.  Occasional banks of freezing fog rolled rapidly landwards, driven by a capricious but powerful wind, with clear patches now and again, allowing one odd glimpses of the land, and the cliff head, often covering the pier slipway, obliterating it, and making it seem as if one was standing on a tower with no land connection. Although dawn had broken, the weather was such that this was by no means apparent, it was still fairly dark, and it took me half an age to get my "storm-lantern",which consisted of a candle in a milk bottle with holes drilled around the bottom,  going, so that I had enough light to assemble my gear. This piece of equipment also did sterling service as a hand warmer. High tide was not for another two hours, but with freezing fingers occasionally warmed on the milk bottle, I painfully started to assemble my gear anyway.  Seven feet of solid fibreglass rod, an ancient wooden "Scarborough" centrepin reel with a hundred yards of forty pound line, an eight ounce lead, and a trace on which was mounted a set of three of my latest "secret weapons". Most of the blokes I met on the pier and elsewhere invariably laughed when seeing this for the first time, some kindly souls even offering me bait and other stuff, which however I always declined.  After a while, quite a few got to know me, as I literally haunted some venues when the fish were there, and was treated like a "regular", although even at that tender age I was considered eccentric, I was twelve at the time.  Not everybody knew my name, and many referred to me as "that fly-tying lad", not unkindly, but in that certain way that suggested I had at least a couple of screws loose.  Nobody actually tapped their foreheads, at least not in my presence, but I often got the feeling that they were about to. Fly-fishing at that time was something which the "gentry" did, and they did not do it in Winter in the North Sea. Standard procedure for serious sea anglers at the time was a multiplying reel, thirty to forty pound line, a minimum four ounce lead, and large baits, usually  consisting of lugworm, ragworm, peeler crab, herring strips, mussels, or various combinations of these. One or two hook rigs were used, these were cast out, the rod was put in a stand, or leaned against the pier railings etc, and a bite was awaited. Some clipped small bells on their rod tips and went to sleep while awaiting such a serendipitous event, others wandered around talking to their mates, smoking and drinking tea, or other "fortifying" beverages, often requiring them to make mad dashes down the length of the pier when their bells rung, and their rods threatened to go over the side. More well to do anglers, had "radium" lights, which were filled with luminescent radioactive gas, cost a veritable fortune, and were screwed or clipped to the rod tip. Occasionally some unfortunate would bugger up a cast, or forget to remove his clip light from his rod before casting, and the light sailed off into the distance, often accompanied by a cracking sound as the terminal tackle followed it on its way to the watery depths, which in turn was accompanied by a steady stream of inventive and colourful profanity, often to the amusement and elucidation of all present, especially some of the younger lads, who presumably laboured for some considerable time under the misapprehension that "fucking" and similar equally unprintable epithets had something to do with radioactive tip-lights. Someone chucking a bell away was not nearly as enlightening for bystanders, and elicited rather less interest. Some inevitably became curious about my gear, especially if I had caught a bagfull on my "hairy fancies" as one gentleman once described my flies. My intention at that time when fishing, was invariably to catch a bagfull, and that in the cheapest and most efficient way possible. My family, and not a small number of my neighbours, depended on it for a decent dinner.  Having had some success with flies in freshwater, I had turned my attentions to the North Sea, as the fish were usually bigger, and there were a lot more of them. Bait was difficult to acquire, and was far too expensive to buy, so I had resolved to try "fly-fishing" there as well. This particular set of "hairy fancies" were made up of 3/0 Mustad stainless steel "beak" hooks, wrapped with silver tinsel, and sporting "wings" of various coloured bucktail.  My technique was quite simple, albeit somewhat strenuous. With a  two or three step "run-up", a whirl very similar to that performed by a hammer thrower,  and a mighty twisting overhead heave, usually instilling considerable fear and amazement in the hearts and minds of any innocent bystanders, especially those who used "normal" gear, even in those who had seen it before, putting an awe inspiring bend into the old solid glass rod, the heavy wooden centrepin was forced into revolving at a speed for which it was never designed, producing thereby the most amazing noises, faintly reminiscent of a defective differential gear, or a rusty dungeon door being swung at high speed. This despite regular applications of fat to the "bearing", the while being braked by the thumb of my right hand to prevent the otherwise inevitable and horrendous "birds nest",  and the "flies" hurtled out, carried by the eight ounce lead, to land with an almighty splash, which could be heard even in the worst of storms and gales, as it was rarely more than about forty yards away when it struck the water. Which circumstance however had the pleasant side-effect of always assuring me plenty of room, even when the pier was crowded. My "flies" were then retrieved at various speeds and in various modes, until I caught a fish.  This happy event occurred surprisingly often, much to the chagrin of those who had previously laughed, and who notwithstanding their veritable armouries of wonderful and often expensive equipment had still not caught anything. Fortunately nobody was frightened half to death on this occasion, as there was nobody there. Having assembled my gear, I essayed my first cast of the day. This cast was always of the utmost importance, and had to be executed with considerable care, in fact the first few casts had to be done in such a way, as otherwise a jam up was quite likely, and the loss of expensive terminal gear inevitable. A careful and relatively modest thirty yard cast was the order of the day. Having accomplished this, I took up the slack, and placing the line over my right index finger, the butt of my rod tucked under my elbow, and my left hand supporting it by holding the rim of the reel, I started a jigging retrieve. Thump! and thump! again, heaving back on the rod I struck, and proceeded to haul in a couple of lively fish, beautiful whiting well over a pound each. These were hauled straight up the thirty foot drop by winding in, despatched, unhooked, and the next cast was prepared. In all the now well over forty years I have been fishing, I have never had a session like I had that day, and I will never do so again, as nowadays I would cease to fish after getting a few good ones.  The fish were there, a large shoal of hungry whiting and they were biting like crazy, I was hauling up two or three fish every cast, some really nice sized ones as well, but all were at least sizeable. Even in those days I was an optimist, and I had brought two large sacks with me and a polythene bag, which was actually designed to be used as a makeshift raincoat should the weather be really nasty.  I filled both sacks and the bag, and continued to fish like a lunatic, the pile of fish on the pier behind me continued to grow apace, but still I carried on, as if in a trance. Several people had now come on to the pier which had opened in the meantime, and stood watching, some started fishing, but I was oblivious to everything, and continued almost mechanically hauling up fish after fish. . Some time after mid-day I came to my senses, and viewed the carnage all around me.  I reeled in my gear and started gutting and filleting fish, several people asked if they might have a fish, and I told them to help themselves.  For several hours I filleted fish like a madman, emptying the sacks and the bag again on to the boards, and filleting those too,and even after filleting everything, and throwing all the guts and even the heads away as well, something I would not usually have done, as they made excellent soup, I still had two large sacks full of solid fish fillets, which I could only just lift. It took me almost seven hours to get home, and was well after dark  long before I got there. Carrying one sack a few hundred yards along the beach, dumping it, … read more »

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Question:

Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

        i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it.

LOL.   Best laugh I’ve had from someone *not* telling a joke. Upon reading my inadvertant straight line, I must commend your admirable restraint. Joe F.

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Me to, but licketysplit I just got hold of myself and stopped. Dave

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Joe It’s called Dulse and my impression is that it is sold more to tourists than locals! I was on Grand Manan island last summer (Canada, just N of Maine)and they claim to be the Dulse capital of the world (I get the distinct impression that it is a very small world!). In my home country of Wales we eat Laverbread which is basically a sea lettuce sort of seaweed that is normally pan fried with bacon. I love it, but my English wife hates it.  OTH we both find Dulse a bit dry, salty and strong, but with a beer – now you’re talking! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – guess it’s like smoked oysters, either you like em or you don’t! Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

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Joe,    You reminded me of a time when I was taking my mother to dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf.  We had just gotten off the cable car and were walking down to the restaurant when we got a whiff of the bay.  Mom said "Whew, smells like the ocean" then paused and in a quieter tone said, "farted".  I almost rolled the rest of the way down the hill. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

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…it is a very small world!

Easy for you to say Davie, you never had to paint it! Wolfgang <who couldn’t care less about context under the circumstances

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… A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.

Squid jerky ? Sounds fascinating, please expound. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

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Nice report Mu.  I’m starting to think that unless we get some rain here in Michigan, we aren’t going to have any water left in our streams. Glad you could make the most of it while out there!  Did you say squied jerkey?? Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

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Thursday morning I left home around 5AM to catch a plane to Los Angeles. Besides a quick lunch in the city, that was the last time I would set foot in LA until my return to the airport this morning.  Most of the extended Labor Day vacation was spent in Ventura and Santa Barbara counties which lie northwest of Los Angeles. First off, the food was amazing. Quality, variety and freshness which is completely unavailable where I live (it also didn’t hurt that my hosts were magicians in the kitchen who could whip up gourmet meals upn a whim).   Went up to Lake Cachuma and rented a little motorboat.  This is stocked trout lake with plenty of bass and panfish.  I didn’t expect any trout since it’s still technically summer.  The water was very choppy and all had I brought with me was 4 wt travel rod which was rendered completely useless by the constant gusting wind.  I put the rod away and became a full time boatsman at the mercy of the whims of a four year old niece. Next day was spent searching the Los Padres National Forest for fishable water.  My friend told me that many streams in this part of California typically have little or no flow by the time July rolls around. Nevertheless, a good map, a lovely lady and a well muscled vehicle were sufficient incentive to explore quite a bit of the nearby highlands.  I did find one stream that had enough flowing water to hold fish.  We bounced around from boulder to boulder and scaled craggy rocks to safely negotiate the hike along and through the creek.  It was more of a hiking trip with a few incidental pokes of my leader into some of the likely looking holes.  I only had three solid strikes and landed one plump rainbow trout on a prince nymph out of the deepest hole.   The last day was spent surf casting with "bloodworms" for ocean perch near Vandenberg Air Force base.  My girlfriend’s dad told me these were his secret baits that a supplier flies in daily from the east coast.  They weren’t the bloodworms I was used to from childhood flounder trips on the Long Island Sound, the ones with the big black pincers that come out of the sphincter on one end when you squeezed them.  These were what we used to call sandworms.  I caught one surf perch on a worm and later caught one on a sand flea that had accidentally impaled itself on my hook as my rig was tumbling in the waves.  Neither fish were worth keeping for the grill so I let them go.  The old fella caught nothing but at least he wasn’t doubled over in sea-sickened vomit position like the last time we went fishing together.  A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.  On the way home we stopped at the Channel Islands Harbor in a port town called Oxnard for some fresh dungeness crab, no utensils necessary. This wasn’t a hard core fishing weekend but a tour of some of the hills and beaches of the central California coast.  All streams, beaches, roads, turnouts, restaurants and vineyards were carefully logged in my mind for the inevitable return visit. Mu

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Question:

I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I would <snipped

this is the most gawdamnest advertising strategy i’ve ever seen. lines & business pretty slack in the keys, eh? –waldo

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Ditto!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I think he’s trying to sell lace panties to fisherman. In that case, I’ll take two. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

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Funny that, I didn’t even bother to read the original post but I’m lost – especially about the bizarre ones that follow this directly –  frodo etc. Sorry chaps (actually I think you ,frodo jump tarpon et al] are really all the same one) but your strategy is so odd and obtuse that I couldn’t care less what you say about each other, or is that about yourself?  You are confusing me with someone who gives a damn! Right on Ernie and Walt!! DBJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM?

I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

Ask TimBone ;^)

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I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like. Ask TimBone ;^)

Ouch!  That was hard!  God I love this place! W

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Question:

On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:27:25 GMT, jl…@knox.mindspring.com wrote: ~…@bi.org (Lucas Aarons) wrote:

~ Can I dig my foot out of my mouth now…..? I aplogize profusely…. I have been having a REALLY bad day and I VERY inappropriately took it out on you……. I will try to be less of an asshole next time. Please accept as my apology a more appropriate response: ~can someone tell me what the child support percentage is in SC for 3 ~children?  also, is there any restriction on visitation (such as ~children cannot stay overnight with a parent if they are living with ~someone they are not married to)?  if  the divorce order is in one ~state and the parent moves to another does the original order stay in ~effect or can the parent get the it changed to the new state? I do not know the percentages in SC. It doubt VERY highly if there are any restrictions on visitation other than those outlined in any decree. Divorce decrees can not be moved as far as I know…. ~ ~please respond by e-mail as i haven’t been able to pick up these ~groups on a regular basis.   I am sending this to you in Email and also publicly apologizing to you in the newsgroup. I would like to ask that it be chalked up to a shitty day and let it slide. I will endeavor to never let my fingers hit the keyboard in here until my brain is in gear and my attitude is supportive no matter the question. Please, once again, accept my humble apologies. You were the victim of severe spillover. I’M SORRY! Lucas -DCS———————————————————– Any unsolicited COMMERCIAL Email, (SPAM), sent to any of my addresses will be charged $85 per hour, with a TWO hour minimum, for reading, replying, and time it takes to format messages to all of the uplinks to have the offenders internet service terminated. Sending of said unsolicited COMMERCIAL Email constitutes acceptance of these terms. —————————————————————

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>can someone tell me what the child support percentage is in SC for 3 children?  

Sorry, I don’t know about that. In my state, it’s a formula combined with whatever expenses the custodial parent dreams up, which are never questioned.   >> also, is there any restriction on visitation (such as children cannot stay overnight with a parent if they are living with someone they are not married to)?<<

I truly can’t fathom this.  I would think that this would be something that has to be put in the decree at the request of a parent at the time of the final hearing, but this is my guess.  My husband and I lived with each other before getting married and his ex-wife is living with someone.  It’s probably the only thing we haven’t tried to hang each other over! >> if  the divorce order is in one state and the parent moves to another does the original order stay in effect or can the parent get the it changed to the new state?<<

It hinges on which state the children are residents of in Colorado.  If we had custody and moved out of state, we could petition the courts to change the case to the new district we were in after we had established residency there.  However, if we move without the children (non-custodial), then the court with jurisdiction remains the same.   There is a group on the net called alt.support.child-support (I think that’s close).  Although they spend alot of time just griping, they can be of some help on occasion.  I’d post your question to them.   One other thing, my husband and I had to go back to court when Cheri (Jeff’s ex) was thinking about moving out of state with his kids.  Bottom line:  if it isn’t prohibited in the orginal orders (or subsequent orders), we can’t stop her.  We finally negotiated a truce which forbids her from taking them out permanently, but it wasn’t easy or cheap.   >please respond by e-mail as i haven’t been able to pick up these groups on a regular basis.  >

I’ll post and email. Good luck, Lynn

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d…@bi.org (Lucas Aarons) wrote:

—>Can I dig my foot out of my mouth now…..? —>I aplogize profusely…. I have been having a REALLY bad day and I VERY —>inappropriately took it out on you……. —>I will try to be less of an asshole next time. —>Please accept as my apology a more appropriate response: thanks lucas.  apology accepted.  :)

Response:

I missed the original post (as sometimes happens with my list, too) because for some reason my reader ALSO refuses to let me in for several days at a time.  Believe me, I try to read at least once a day.  You can tell by how verbose I am. Anyway, you are welcome here.  The response you got was not typical. Lucas, what got up your butt?  I know you’re opinionated, but you usually aren’t nasty! Best wishes.  Hope you get over that bug, Lucas. Pam For the info of all newsgroup readers, a good site with discussion groups (including one for steps) as well as a legal database of state by state info is at: <http://www.divorcenet.com> (add /board6.html for the step discussions)

Response:

can someone tell me what the child support percentage is in SC for 3 children?  also, is there any restriction on visitation (such as children cannot stay overnight with a parent if they are living with someone they are not married to)?  if  the divorce order is in one state and the parent moves to another does the original order stay in effect or can the parent get the it changed to the new state? please respond by e-mail as i haven’t been able to pick up these groups on a regular basis.   thanks! jl…@mindspring.com

Response:

On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:01:14 GMT, jl…@knox.mindspring.com wrote:

~can someone tell me what the child support percentage is in SC for 3 ~children?  also, is there any restriction on visitation (such as ~children cannot stay overnight with a parent if they are living with ~someone they are not married to)?  if  the divorce order is in one ~state and the parent moves to another does the original order stay in ~effect or can the parent get the it changed to the new state? First, we are not lawyers…. It sounds alot like you are fishing for a way to slap an ex…. Second, since you deserve the advice you get, here goes: (two face mask on) for 3 children the percentage is 50% of your income for the life of the children. This means that the amount you have earned since they were born, you divide into a monthly income and 50% of that is child-support…. As for restrictions on visitation: it depends on whether the other party is also living with someone. The children automatically become wards of the person who has another adult in the house with them. Especially if the other person is of the same sex. If your ex now has a live-in lover, you will need to either find a lover of your own sex, or hand over the children immediately. If it is you that now has the lover, demand immediate custody. Oh, of course, the divorce decree can be moved to any jurisdiction you wish. Even if you do not live there. We had our decree moved to mexico, because we found a judge who could be bribed to increase the bastards child support from a measly $105 per month to $1050 per month. I would strongly suggest moving to Japan if you are the non custodial parent. They dont believe in child support. ~please respond by e-mail as i haven’t been able to pick up these ~groups on a regular basis.   If you are unable to pick up this newsgroup on a regular basis, it is because you are too busy to bother. This is an alt.support group, not an alt.free.legal.advice group. ~thanks! You are NOT welcome…. ~jl…@mindspring.com If you want some support as a step-parent, drop in and see us sometime. Ask your lawyer for the legal advice. ~ -DCS———————————————————– Any unsolicited COMMERCIAL Email, (SPAM), sent to any of my addresses will be charged $85 per hour, with a TWO hour minimum, for reading, replying, and time it takes to format messages to all of the uplinks to have the offenders internet service terminated. Sending of said unsolicited COMMERCIAL Email constitutes acceptance of these terms. —————————————————————

Response:

d…@bi.org (Lucas Aarons) wrote:

—>First, we are not lawyers…. It sounds alot like you are fishing for a way —>to slap an ex…. i never said anyone here was.   but i figured that step-parents might have some insight into cs and visitation.   —>Second, since you deserve the advice you get, here goes: (two face mask on) and i never asked for legal advice.  i asked for information.  i never take anything  i read in any newsgroups as carved in stone fact. and it’s obvious from the "advice" you offered you don’t have the information. —>If you are unable to pick up this newsgroup on a regular basis, it is —>because you are too busy to bother. This is an alt.support group, not an —>alt.free.legal.advice group. no…  it is because i seem to have a problem with my reader when it tries to pull in groups that have large message bases.  so i don’t always get all messages.  so e-mail seems to work a bit better when i am asking for information. and again, i did NOT ask for advice. —>~thanks! —>You are NOT welcome…. what is your problem?  i asked for simple information  and i get treated rudely.  is that the way you treat everyone here?  or is it strictly reserved for newcomers???   —>If you want some support as a step-parent, drop in and see us sometime. i will be becoming a step-parent soon.  but if you are any indication of the type of step-parent that is a frequenter of this news group i am GLAD that i have problems pulling the group! —>Ask your lawyer for the legal advice. exactly what we do! my apoligies to anyone out there i annoyed with my simple request.  i never dreamed that it would receive this type of reception.

Response:

d…@bi.org (Lucas Aarons) wrote:

—>First, we are not lawyers…. It sounds alot like you are fishing for a way —>to slap an ex…. I don’t know about the rest of you.  YOU are not only apparently not a lawyer, you are not deserving of participation in a group that includes the word support.  What kind of an idiot responds to a simple request for information as if it were a personal insult?  Or do you have nothing better to do than shoot off your mouth? As it happens, this woman you have taken upon yourself to police is about to become a step-parent.  Her step-children are about to be taken by my ex-wife to South Carolina.  She is asking for information that anyone in South Carolina could easily look up in a public library. Most any idiot could recognize the difference between this and legal advice, but you appear to not be just any idiot.  You must be an especially depraved idiot, too sucked up in some kind of bitterness to notice. We could look up the information ourselves, except that we’re not IN South Carolina.  One would think that a newsgroup with a name like alt.support.step-parents would be a place to get support from other step-parents. I think a reasonable person would assume that.  Oh, but I forget, you don’t act like a reasonable person, you act like a self-evidenced depraved idiot. I suppose YOU would not wonder how your own situation might change as a result of the decisions that other people make.  You would just pony up whatever demands were placed on you.  Or else you would fly across the country and look up the information yourself.  But then, you seem to be an idiot, so I wouldn’t be surprised.  Only an idiot would attempt to read an entire set of motivations out of one posting of less than 15 lines.  Or perhaps you are psychic!  Let’s see, from your post…. —>If you are unable to pick up this newsgroup on a regular basis, it is —>because you are too busy to bother. ….you are able to tell the reason she doesn’t get the newsgroup regularly.  How amazing!  Except, you blithering idiot, that her ISP tends to time out before she can download all the postings, and so she tends to lose a lot of them. And this one takes a little more reading between the lines, but there seems to be a pattern: —>They dont believe in child support. So, Mr. or Ms. or Mx. Psychic, you probably are assuming that this is someone trying to get out of paying child support.  Couldn’t POSSIBLY be, could it, that this is someone who is trying to help BUDGET for something that she is not forced into?  No, that would be too human, something that a depraved idiot is in no position to understand. It is assholes like you who give the Internet a bad name.  If the newsgroup is for support, then be supportive or go somewhere that welcomes people who have nothing better to do with their feeble lives than flame. My thanks to you who actually provided support. You would seem more representative of this group than this one waste of space on the planet. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could actually support each other? And I apologize for taking up bandwidth.  A public slander deserves a public reply, however.

Response:

Question:

I am planning a trip to the Dordogne region of southern France in June of this year, and would appreciate any information regarding fly fishing in that area.   post via this news group, or contact me via email (preferable) at Thanks in advance

Response:

craig: Check out the following article by Barry Thornton in the Online Gillie at Flyfishers Online (www.flyfishers.com). Fly Fishing the Famous Doubs River in France! – Oct, 1996 Enjoy, PFY I am planning a trip to the Dordogne region of southern France in June of this year, and would appreciate any information regarding fly fishing in that area. post via this news group, or contact me via email (preferable) at Thanks in advance

– Peter Yoakum eChannel, Inc. 206 727 2702 206 727 2718 (fax)

Response: