Question:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… "….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…." Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

thanks jeffie…. bartram’s travels is a classic….. well worth the read. –waldo, hoping i still have a copy somewheres…

Response:

Appreciate posts on FF history, thanx. Dave

Response:

Jeff  I missed the post explaing UnC  web to read early Bartram—-please offer again– Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think )   motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

Response:

Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think ) motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

I believe that somehow I must be related to Jeff Miller. I’m off to call my mom. –Steve

Response:

i think this is what you wanted, but not sure…  http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html …i’m probably not gonna be able to get back to the mountains before christmas… but i might get ol pj and make a visit to you and that bass pond you keep braggin about… we’d arrive early and leave late, eat all your food, and drink your whisky… and since jim’s comin, you might wanna warn dene too… i hear it’s nice in wilmington this time of year… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida…

"….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…."   Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

Response:

That ‘delicious food’ part doesn’t seem to fit, does it? riverman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108 "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it. THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks:

this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the

boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of

the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout

instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a

possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does

by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to

raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant

fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it. THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and

consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with

transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light

reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular,

this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening

and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey,

discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed

it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in

order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they

strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the

tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West

Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the

Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions,

Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North

Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html —–        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization

project, Documenting the American South. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108         "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it.         THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks: this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it.         THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular, this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey, discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions, Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html         The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

Question:

 when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  

BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

Response:

Charlie, Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time. BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG.

Depends on the caliber<g. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard.

Very interesting.  This is the first I have ever heard about the possible transmission of rabies without a bite, and it does change the equation considerably.  Despite the irrational fear and dread so many people feel for bats, I suspect that they are more frequently handled than most other wild mammals.  Very few people are likely to handle a wild raccoon or skunk for example, regardless of the possibility of the animal being rabid, because of the comparatively high likelihood of being bitten.  Bats, on the other hand, are typically very small and much less formidable.  And, since they are frequently found in relatively large numbers in and around people’s yards, not to mention trout streams, contact must be more frequent. No reasonable person would recommend handling bats or any other wild animals unnecessarily.  And, of course, when handling bats is deemed necessary (for example, when one has gotten hold of your last good hex imitation) it should be done while wearing heavy leather gloves.  Nevertheless, as you pointed out, the risk is small enough that bats should not be stigmatized and persecuted as they so often are. I put up a bat box on a friend’s house about three years ago.  Unfortunately, the yard is heavily shaded, and there is no good place to put a box to take advantage of early morning sunshine which, I have read, is a necessary condition for attracting the bats.

Response:

Taste good they do.  I used to fish for them at night (they are very active at night), when they often come into shallower water, with diving Rapalas.  Good fun.  Interestingly, we used to see bats flying over our heads. I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

So, what happened to the bat?

He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell. Natty

Response:

ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

Response:

So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Eek!  I read somewhere long ago that ALL animals can swim……but I don’t know….bats?…..emus?…..or are they still extinct?….hm….. Wolfgang

Response:

So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Bats are nothing. My fishing partner caught an albatross at Christmas Island, and I have the photo to prove it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

Response:

Yeah, really, and we all know rabbies don’t eat anything that’s not kosher. you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

[snipped a batty story] Natty

Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world? Peter

Response:

Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world?

Yes, pickerel are a member of the pike family though plain pickerel are usually smaller than walleye.  There are a few types but the one I most commonly run into is just a plain pickerel or sometimes referred to as a grass pickerel (not to be confused with a chain pickerel which is much larger and a highly sought after game fish).  They have rounded, elongated bodies with a kind of flat, duck billed head/mouth. They are sort of greenish in color with dark brown/black thick vertical stripes that stretch from the top of their backs to about 2/3 down to the belly.  Oh yea, don’t mess with the teeth.  They are like daggers and can leave a permanent scar (told from experience).  They are a fun fish to catch, very strong and fast swimmers  though not at all acrobatic.  Once hooked they mostly try to go deep or straight away… I’ve never seen one jump. For more of a textbook type description check out http://members.tripod.com/~huntingfishing/grasspickerel.htm I don’t know what family of fish walleye are in (or if they are related to the pike or pickerel.  That’s pretty interesting though that walleye are called pickerel in your neck of the woods.  I’m gong to do some research..you’ve peaked my interest. Natty

Response:

forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here.

Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me. Natty

Response:

A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

Response:

wolfgang, now now.. dont get bent out of shape.  I noted i was assuming the most possibly alarmist role I could. I suppose that it also depends on where one lives.. in the "rabies belt" of the US, people make all kinds of assumptions about wild animals having rabies.  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  likely not the same assumptions elsewhere. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

Response:

ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

Response:

I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse.

Regards, Jeff

Response:

[snip] Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse. Peter

Response:

forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Peter

Response:

I believe some call walleye yellow pike???

Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me.

The pickerel we catch in New England have the "jump, shake, and toss the hook" move down to a science… /daytripper

Response:

ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho.

Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

Response:

<snipped interesting tale of chiropteran catch So, what happened to the bat? Wolfgang fledermaus fan

Response:

Question:

What weight rod is typically used when going after the fat Alberts?

Response:

Peter, at least an 8 wt.  A 9 or 10 might be better because of the wind conditions if fishing from the island.  Most importantly, a reel with at least 200 yards of 20 lb. backing and a good disc drag.  HANG ON!! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What weight rod is typically used when going after the fat Alberts?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What weight rod is typically used when going after the fat Alberts? A 9 wt is probably the most common, but I prefer a 10 wt. With a 10 wt you can really put the wood to a good size Albie. A large arbor such as a Tibor or Bauer is a big advantage. –tony

Response:

Thanks for all responses. We are headed to Harkers Island at the end of October for our first try for the false albacore and were wondering about the tackle. Peter G. Aitken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What weight rod is typically used when going after the fat Alberts? A 9 wt is probably the most common, but I prefer a 10 wt. With a 10 wt you can really put the wood to a good size Albie. A large arbor such as a Tibor or Bauer is a big advantage. –tony

Response:

What weight rod is typically used when going after the fat Alberts?

Do yourself, and the fish, a favor and forget the 8 and 9 weights and stick to the 10 wt.  Use a heavy tippet so you can pressure th efish and get it in quicker, they will fight until they are dead otherwise.  I am using 20 pound fluorocarbon for a tippet.  It makes a difference.  Also check out flies tied on circle hooks for albies.  Work great.  The fish don’t get off at all.  Check the flytying page on my site for a rundown of patterns I like to use.  Good luck. — Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Flyfishing guide, instructor and flytier.

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Question:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" …..

To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs.  The Commission will decide the fate of Davis during their September 22 hearing. I’m trying to get my comments in, and need to get my butt in gear and share them with all of you so you can make comments. For those that do not know, this is the first time a task force of angling and other representatives has been put together to pre-filter what has historically been a mass of regulation change proposals (some individuals would submit dozens of changes without demonstrating any broad support).  An early point of contention on the new process is whether the proposals being forwarded by the task force to the commission were being recommended for approval by the commission, or whether the tasks forces only job was to look for proposals that had broad support of any kind, or some reason to be debated further in front of the commission. Evidently some of the angling representatives on the task force felt the former (forwarding meant recommending for approval), and felt caught off guard when the ODFW made contrary recommendations *after* all the public meetings and after the task force had concluded its business. Thomas Gilg

Response:

This will be a news item that would interest those who fish in Oregon (and those of you who visit).  The Federation of Fly Fishers, Oregon Council was able to present 160 rule changes to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.  The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" and the principle gain for the fly fishing community was the removal of the harvest on Davis Lake (catch and release only).  In addition to this major proposal, the Department agreed to close the Odell Creek channel form the buoy upstream to the Forest Service road between the east and west campgrounds to protect spawning beds. My thanks to the volunteers at our local chapter, who worked so hard, so we all could benefit from their splendid efforts. Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" ….. To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs <snipped

Thomas, thanks for bringing this news up-to-date and correcting the lastest statements from FFF. (I was quoting the __Oregon Fly Fisher Newsletter I rec’d in the mail today).  I am sorry to hear about their recommendation against the Davis Lake proposal, in fact I am stunned.  I am in SW Washington and I would be happy to show up at any meetings you think would assist in getting the Oregon Council proposals adopted.  I purchase an out-of-state fishing license every year, so I believe I have a say here even though I am not a resident of the great State of Oregon. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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Question:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

Thosands of people should reveal their honey holes, and no one should be able to access the site but me. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

Response:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  

Tech stuff: 1. Smart technology design, made to maximize usability on different client configurations. No Frames, No Java, No Java script, No Banners, No animated gifs, No excessive graphics, No risky and non fail-gracefully code, No excessive tables, No overdoing lay-out with html – settle for structure. 2. Universal non-plattform specific readability in terms of fonts and colors. 3. Keep it simple! 99 of a hundred trying to be fancy end up looking like complete and utter imbeciles. Let your content speak for it self, don’t fuck it up with bad design decisions. 4. Do not split long pages into several small ones (common sense applies, though). 5. Make it fast and effortless for visitors to figure out the structure of your website, latest updates and contents (search-engine, what’s new-overview, site map). Do not make your site look cool for the uninterested drooling 7-year old who will visit your site once or twice. Make it functional for your frequent visitors. Read this: http://photo.net/wtr/thebook/ And check out http://www.w3.org/ as well. That is the easy part, now the hard stuff. Content guidelines: 1. Only do stuff you or your staff is knowledgeable on. 2. Do things well and complete, or don’t do them at all. You get no extra points for putting it on the web. The Internet is 20 years old and maturing every minute (ROFF excepted of course . Sucky things aren’t cool any longer just because they are on the web, they just suck. 3. Allow feedback and publicly available comments on everything (interactive). Share what you know, and let others share what they know related to your site. 4. Update regularly. Don’t suddenly take a 6 month absence without notice. Be committed, and stay that way. Content: Firstly, take a look at the major search engines, and see what sites are out there. A million or two. Find anything missing? Or a concept that could be substantially improved upon by you? 1. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about another site set out to help newbies figure the most basic things. There are plenty of those already (I assume). 2. Neither do I pursue sites which focuses on technical fly fishing stuff, like hatches, insects, knots, rods, technique etc. Of course, an extensive site of this would be interesting, and definitively worthy of a bookmark, and be used as a reference. If the site is somewhat less then really really really great (which will require insane amounts of work), it’s not interesting to me at all. Remember, hundreds of books has been written on these subjects by very knowledgeable people. Be better, or be gone. 3. I want personal stuff. I like pictures and I enjoy stories. I want someone who is adept at writing to share his thoughts and experiences with me. I may be a weirdo, but I tremendously enjoy reading other people’s stories from fly fishing outings/trips. I want to know how they feel, what they are thinking, what happens etc, almost like a diary. Be willing to share. You can probably tell me very little about fly fishing, but you can probably tell me very much about yourself as a fly fisherman. Write a book about it, and put the chapters on your website. Offer intelligent and lengthy stuff. Screw those who gets a headache from reading more than a few minutes straight. Write it so good, that non-fly fishers will enjoy it as well. 4. Be humble, and expect nothing in return. 5. Write in Norwegian, so I can fully enjoy the subtle linguistic concept. (ok, this one is rather optional) That’s how the ideal fly fishing web site is to me. Quite easy, actually. Make one, and I’ll visit regularly, if I like your style. — Christian Figenschou – <URL: http://figen.com

Response:

Question:

Can someone give a beginner where he can try flyfishing on the Mad River. I’ve heard good things about it but have not fished it.

Response:

Best access near the hatchery in Blue Lake. Expect crowds, so fish during the week if possible. Try Black wooly buggers, or dark streamers. Comets might also work. Large fish 7 wt. + rod recommended. For FF fish 3-4 days after rains, as river frequently muddy. If in this area, consider VAn-Duzen river also when open.

Response:

GBloomf405 Anywhere a bridge crosses is public access to the Mad.  Between West Liberty, Ohio (where the best of the fishing starts) and Urbana (where the river becomes too warm to support trout) there are probably 40+ bridges. As long as you are in the stream bed you are ok.  Outside the bed its trespassing.  That’s why the bridges are the surest access.  The Mad does not have a natural population of trout.  It is stocked twice a year by the ODNR.  Most flyfisherman catch and release.  There is very intense fishing on this river by bait and lure throwers.   Chromids, prince nymphs, streamers, crawfish and caddis are reliable. There is not one good place to go.  Buy a State Gazetteer and pick some spots.  I have never found a stretch to deep to wade.  It is sandy bottomed and the current is provided by natural springs.  That’s what makes the something more that you would like to know.  The Orvis dealer in COlumbus, Mad River Outfitters can be of help and he guides the river out of an AuSable boat.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone give a beginner where he can try flyfishing on the Mad River. I’ve heard good things about it but have not fished it.

Response:

Really Recommend calling Mad River Outfitters, in Columbus Ohio of Bethel Road.. Brian, Owner there has written up a book on Flyfishing the Mad, with Access Maps, entymology and the history of the River.  It is a wonderful read, and thouroughly a help.. This is a very tough River to catch fish on, atleast it was for me… Kevin C. Paulson

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Question:

Planning a potential:-) two-week trip to Rockies in..?Feb-March.. sometime…..for skiing.  Are there any relatively shallow waters fishable then…or when….  Including some lightline flyfishing   would definitely add a lot to the trip.  Although judging from the springtime entries…to beat the spring *thaw*:-) seems to be anytime before late june!..?.. out there. feel free to email…. tight_lines, steve d.

Response:

Planning a potential:-) two-week trip to Rockies in..?Feb-March.. sometime…..for skiing.  Are there any relatively shallow waters fishable then…or when….  Including some lightline flyfishing would definitely add a lot to the trip.  Although judging from the springtime entries…to beat the spring *thaw*:-) seems to be anytime before late june!..?.. out there. feel free to email…. tight_lines, steve d.

Hi Steve, You can experience great skiing at Big Sky or Bridger Bowl near Bozeman.  The fishing that time of year on Nelson’s spring creek (not sure about the outcome with Depuys/Armstrongs yet), the Beaver Head, and the Big Horn are all great.  Mid day midges, blue winged olives, etc. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands

Response:

 Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands.

Hello Herman, There are plenty of "middle-range" fly rods to chose from.  I would suggest on of the companies that gives a lifetime warranty.  Some of these rods include the Sage DS series and Redington.  They run about $255 for the Sage 590 DS kit which includes rod, reel, line and backing.  The Redington rods run about $105.   Good luck with your fishing and Congratulations on the new child. Paul Johnson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands

OK, good luck with your boy/girl?, anyway (you should already think abot looking for a second rod, I think it makes a great gift for=  the first birthday). OK, here some suugestions for you. Since I appreciate SAGE fly rods very much (that’s simply because they are = the best performing fly rods made here in the USA) I would suggest to look at their rods. Since you are looking for something in the=  middle price range have a closer look at the DS series- they are in the mid price range and perform real well. OK, SAGE makes faste= r and more powerful rods, but they cost twice as much. The DS series has a medium fast action with still lots of backbone and is ver= y pleasant to cast. They have a 5wt in 8 and 9ft, also in 4 piece (4piece is maybe worth a thought if you travel with your rod- e.g.=  graylingfishing in denmark (Velje Au etc…) or the mountain lakes in Jotunheimen in Norway!). Since you are in europe you will probably also see european rod makers. Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling=  series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!). If you have the = chance cast a M3, thats their high end (unfortunately high price) rod series – IMO the best on the market (it’s very similar to the = SAGE SP series, only  better!). If you like the slow rods more look at Hardys Favourite FT (the FT is important since it means that this is the fast action series, = the normal Favourite is too slow). They are not real fast rods, but comparatively fast rods for a Hardy rod. In general Hardy rods a= re relatively slow rods but they cast like a dream. But don’t try to pick up 20 m of line with them, they won’t do the job (OK, with=  special pick up techniques you can overcome this problem to a certain point.- They are nice dry fly rods or small nymph rods but no= t pleasant to fish with streamers or other heavy stuff and they are to slow for fast alpine sreams.). Hope that helps                   Thomas

Response:

In a message about ‘Re: New rod??’, Thomas Urbig Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!).

You gotta be kidding! The RST rods I’ve tried can’t come close to any Sage’s shadow. RST rods feels very unresponsive as well as extremly stiff. For affordable rods, I’d try the Penns. Haven’t tried the new Redingtons. The first series didn’t impress me. CU, Jay Lee (Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands)

Response:

Hi,   Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" which really is a bargain at $70. Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? Cheers,         Pete. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

Response:

: Hi, :   Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion : on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). : Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" : which really is a bargain at $70. Yep. : Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? The 4-piece travel rods are a fabulous value. I haven’t tried the higher-end models. –mike

Response:

  I own several st.croix flyrods. for the past 6yrs i think there great rods for the money. i’ve had one break while salmon fishing.my dealer sent it back and they sent me a naw one at no cost.and the rod they sent me was the next step up from the one i had break.so for me for the money there the rod to have.

Response:

Question:

bc, we have got to get out on the Provo some time so you can show me your waters.  Just tell me when you are able to go and I’ll see what I can do. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped I love fishing Utah. However, don’t go fishing where the out of state fly-fishermen go. You need to ask some of the local fly-fishermen to tell you where to go. Vern, And there are some local people that don’t fly fish that will be more then happy to tell you where to go bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Before you buy.

Response:

I plan of fishing in Northern Utah this year.  It’s just farther from me than Southern Utah.  Therefore, I can get out to Southern Utah a lot more. Vern Actually, Northern Utah fishing is great, and there are a lot of places where you can get out without the crowds, and still enjoy a day out. You should give it a try some time. Also, check out http://www.fishwest.com/Utah. You can get a lot of info on northern UT fishing.

Before you buy.

Response:

Keep your eyes open, though.  My son came tearing back up the trail looking like he’d seen Satan himself. Satan living in Utah?? I don’t think so. Every conservative christian knows Satan lives in Oregon.

Visits here in WI pretty often though.  Seems to like the weather, mosquitos, deer flies, horse flies, black flies, ticks, Miller beer, and those adorable foam rubber cheese hats!        :)

Response:

As long as the snake has not drawn its pistol you are relatively safe ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Steve Oregon churches send missionaries to heathen Washington state. We have the rep as the most "unchurched" state in the union. ET2 would feel right at home in this respect. I only know one person who is into their church. On the other hand, I know 3 mail order ministers, 2 witches, 2 shaman, and many just plain pagans, and Im no fringy. Winter solstice is a major event, and July 4th has many aspects of an emerging religious holiday. Mostly the local christians adapt and rarely push things. And they do make themselves useful for weddings and burials, although, in our circle I think the mail order ministers handle about 50% of the business. One of the best is a Jewish guy. Folks like the mix of Hebrew/Native American stuff. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep your eyes open, though.  My son came tearing back up the trail looking like he’d seen Satan himself. Satan living in Utah?? I don’t think so. Every conservative christian knows Satan lives in Oregon. –Steve

Response:

Mike Connor wrote As long as the snake has not drawn its pistol you are relatively safe !

Snakes that shoot?  Well I suppose I could believe that. But snakes that draw?….Methinks you’ve been a bussin’ the famous stone, Michael me boyo. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

ET1 I can’t remember the last marriage that was held in a church. Opps take that back, about three years ago, mail order minister and a pickup with half a load of Alaska crab. Best one I saw recently was conducted by the Church of Elvis (HQ in Portland I believe) on the Winslow ferry. Oregon is wierd mix. I get a kick out of their public access cable. Do they still have that old guy doing the live sex shows from various blue venues? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oregon has a very interesting mix of liberal and conservative folks. There are quite a few religious people, but any place where medicinal mariuana and euthanasia are legal has a good portion of liberals. On the side, when I got married last summer, I literally had to interview all the "nondenominational ministers" since there were so many.  Got to hear all sorts of interesting stories, marriages in the nude, people consecrating their wedding immediately afterwards, etc. I suddenly felt quite…..normal.    - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Utah, fishing, it sucks.  Too many people on the water and just try and get a parking spot within a mile and a half of Little Hole.  Better fishing and less people in Oregon. Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you ever fished in Utah? no What did you think? not much. waldo

Response:

Utah, fishing, it sucks.  Too many people on the water and just try and get a parking spot within a mile and a half of Little Hole.  Better fishing and less people in Oregon.

No, no, no, don’t let them fool you.  It rains constantly in Oregon, better fishing in Colorado.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? What did you think?

I love fishing Utah.  However, don’t go fishing where the out of state fly-fishermen go.  You need to ask some of the local fly-fishermen to tell you where to go. My favorite secret fishing spot is in Southern Utah.  However, don’t ask me where it is.  I won’t tell you.  I’ve only seen one other fly- fisherman there.  That’s the way I want to keep it.  Most people want to go to Northern Utah.  I don’t know much about that area. Here is a url with photos of my favorite spot in Utah.  The waters are calm and clear with fish that are hard to catch.  Though it says it was my last trip, it was not.  I have not had a chance to update my web- site yet.  Here’s the url: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/NEWS1.html — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

<snipped I love fishing Utah.  However, don’t go fishing where the out of state fly-fishermen go.  You need to ask some of the local fly-fishermen to tell you where to go.

Vern, And there are some local people that don’t fly fish that will be more then happy to tell you where to go bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<snipped Ah come on Al – fly fishing is great at little hole.  Last year, I think I made 4 trips up there and had no problem parking.  How often did you fly fish it? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? What did you think?

I used to fish some little canyons around Dinosaur. Most places were pretty remote but were very enjoyable hikes and nice fishing. — Charlie…

Response:

Actually, Northern Utah fishing is great, and there are a lot of places where you can get out without the crowds, and still enjoy a day out. You should give it a try some time. Also, check out http://www.fishwest.com/Utah. You can get a lot of info on northern UT fishing.

Response:

Vern,    That looks like the Southwest corner of Utah down by Four Corners, some beautiful country there. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My favorite secret fishing spot is in Southern Utah.  However, don’t ask me where it is.  I won’t tell you.  I’ve only seen one other fly- fisherman there.  That’s the way I want to keep it.  Most people want to go to Northern Utah.  I don’t know much about that area. Vern

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah?

Only once, about 6 years ago. What did you think?

Loved it! Our destination was the Green River, below Flaming Gorge dam.  We stayed in Vernal — one of those rare places where residents don’t bother to lock their doors.  Rooms at the Best Western were $20!  We stayed there for a week for what one night at the "fishin’ resort" would have cost. Fishing the Green was great, but we also explored and fished smaller, lesser known streams.  One that was a lot of fun (don’t know its name) crosses the road from Vernal to Flaming Gorge — and is about 2/3 of the way to the dam.  We followed it downstream from the road and, although a small stream, caught many fish in the 14 – 16 inch range. Keep your eyes open, though.  My son came tearing back up the trail looking like he’d seen Satan himself.  He’d almost stepped on a fat rattler. When it started buzzing right at his feet, he ’bout lost it. Unlike the Green (which is host to hordes of fiishers), nobody else was fishing the "little stuff." Been hoping to go back ever since, but have recently fallen in love with the Jackson Hole area and been spending my limited "out of state" time around there. Wes Peterson

Response:

Keep your eyes open, though.  My son came tearing back up the trail looking like he’d seen Satan himself.

Satan living in Utah?? I don’t think so. Every conservative christian knows Satan lives in Oregon. –Steve

Response:

Keep your eyes open, though.  My son came tearing back up the trail looking like he’d seen Satan himself. Satan living in Utah?? I don’t think so. Every conservative christian knows Satan lives in Oregon.

And they should run, flee, flee I tell you, all you conservative christians flee back to Utah….HA HA HA!!!      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Al Simpson wrote Utah, fishing, it sucks.  Too many people on the water and just try and get a parking spot within a mile and a half of Little Hole.

I go to the Green every May.  There’s always plenty of parking at Little Hole.  However, most of the browns you catch in that section of the river do lack a certain amount of enthusiasm when hooked. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? What did you think?

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? no What did you think? not much. waldo

Hey, pal, you got a problem with Utah? <g –Steve

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? What did you think?

The state-run liquor stores closed way too early. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah?

no What did you think?

not much. waldo

Response:

From Rolly & Wells column in today’s Slat Lake Tribune:    Kathy Lambert of Salt Lake County reports that an acquaintance    visiting Utah recently was dining at Applebees in Salt Lake City and    asked the waitress what kinds of merlot and chardonnay wines were    available. The waitress gave the group a puzzled look, then said she    would find out. A few minutes later she came back with a triumphant    look on her face and proudly proclaimed: "The merlot is red and the    chardonnay is white." Only in Utah! Chuck W – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you ever fished in Utah? What did you think? The state-run liquor stores closed way too early. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Have you ever fished in Utah? no What did you think? not much. waldo Hey, pal, you got a problem with Utah? <g –Steve

yeah, what’s the deal with all that salt? walt, who loves western americana

Response:

: I will be in Utah around SnowBird and Alta ski resorts in Mid Feb. Can : someone recommend somewhere? Yeah, a grass hut on the beach of Bora Bora!  

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: I will be in Utah around SnowBird and Alta ski resorts in Mid Feb. Can : someone recommend somewhere? For fishing? Serious?  I would guess a pot of water suspended over a large campfire might be your only bet.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I will be in Utah around SnowBird and Alta ski resorts in Mid Feb. Can : someone recommend somewhere?

You guys don’t know Utah to well some of the best fishing of the year is right on the doorstep of the ski areas in February –hint bring #16 and #18 pheasant tail nymph,9ft.4X leaders, Talk to a guide name Chris – tell him Pete B. sent you  

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I live in Provo and fish the Provo river at least once a week.  Last time I checked there wasn’t ten feet of snow, and if there were river access is easy enough to get around the snow.  In fact, we had a blast hooking into big fish using some small midge patterns on top just a few days ago.  Granted there is the ugly avalanche that’s 60′ deep and a half a mile wide, but that’s quite far from where the good fishing is on the Provo.     So if you’re going to be in Utah for a while check out my Utah fly fishing page for the latest on the conditions.   http://www.et.byu.edu/~fryc Curtis Fry

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I will be in Utah around SnowBird and Alta ski resorts in Mid Feb. Can someone recommend somewhere?

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Yes, it’s true.  My first sighting.  Along Henry’s Fork, the Deschutes, the Madison?  Nope.  Parked outside a gourmet coffee shop on Bainbridge Island, Washington. Tight Lines (and tall lattes), Scott

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: Yes, it’s true.  My first sighting.  Along Henry’s Fork, the Deschutes, : the Madison?  Nope.  Parked outside a gourmet coffee shop on Bainbridge : Island, Washington. Now *there’s* a shock : Tight Lines (and tall lattes), I like grande’s -JEG — John E. Grant             |"it’s 3 days ride from Bakersfield and I don’t http://www.tufts.edu/~jgrant1

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Yes, it’s true.  My first sighting.  Along Henry’s Fork, the Deschutes, the Madison?  Nope.  Parked outside a gourmet coffee shop on Bainbridge Island, Washington.

Gosh, saw one today myself. Outside of Boushey’s Fruit Market; "Cheeses of the World, 250 varieties…" on Elgin Street, here in Ottawa. Maybe belonged to a visting American, come to think of it Bill C. _was_ in town. Naaaa….. In anycase this ain’t trout country anyway; smallies, walleye & muskies maybe. — Blair Sharpe Ottawa, ON, Canada

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This thread should be renamed.  How about "An oil leak runs through it"? Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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I saw the owner’s manual in a book store recently.  I think it’s called "Fly Fishing Through The Mid-Life Crisis."  I’ll be moving along, thanks. Don’t fish and tell. Terry

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: I saw the owner’s manual in a book store recently.  I think it’s called : "Fly Fishing Through The Mid-Life Crisis."  I’ll be moving along, thanks. : Don’t fish and tell. : Terry If you haven’t read FFTM-LC don’t knock it.  It’s good!.  Not Gierach, perhaps, but better than Lyons.

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I saw the owner’s manual in a book store recently.  I think it’s called "Fly Fishing Through The Mid-Life Crisis."  I’ll be moving along, thanks. Don’t fish and tell. Terry

Read the book now I guess I will have to buy the jeep, special edition no doubt. Probably comes with a built in rod rack, fly tying table, wine cooler etc. To bad I still have to work for a living.

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It’s a wonderful book, but I don’t get your comparison of Lyons and Gierach. Both are fine essayists, but Lyons, it seems to me, plays it deeper and acknowledges something more of the complexities of human experience than Gierach…without any less humor, understanding of the sport and its Richards) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I saw the owner’s manual in a book store recently.  I think it’s called : "Fly Fishing Through The Mid-Life Crisis."  I’ll be moving along, thanks. : Don’t fish and tell. : Terry If you haven’t read FFTM-LC don’t knock it.  It’s good!.  Not Gierach, perhaps, but better than Lyons.

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It does not come with fly tieing table or cooler.  That is extra. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw the owner’s manual in a book store recently.  I think it’s called "Fly Fishing Through The Mid-Life Crisis."  I’ll be moving along, thanks. Don’t fish and tell. Terry Read the book now I guess I will have to buy the jeep, special edition no doubt. Probably comes with a built in rod rack, fly tying table, wine cooler etc. To bad I still have to work for a living.

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I’ve never seen one and don’t plan to as long as it stays on the east

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