Question:

Did you hear about the Energizer Bunny dying? Someone put his batteries in backwards and he just kept coming and coming and coming….. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You forgot to mention stranding me on little dummer with a dead battery. Yes…well….that was another trip, after all… That battery, btw, is totally, utterly, dead. Two years old, too young to die. It’s going back to Sears today… /daytripper

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] that the world was a better place without me on it… Amen

See, that’s what editing can do to a concept – turn it into a suicide note! /daytripper (although if it gets any hotter here, that’s an idea…)

Response:

You forgot to mention stranding me on little dummer with a dead battery.

Yes…well….that was another trip, after all… That battery, btw, is totally, utterly, dead. Two years old, too young to die. It’s going back to Sears today… /daytripper

Response:

You forgot to mention stranding me on little dummer with a dead battery. Yes…well….that was another trip, after all… That battery, btw, is totally, utterly, dead. Two years old, too young to die. It’s going back to Sears today… /daytripper

Get someone else to lift it for you… Paul

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(snipped report) That was a good read.  Excellent fishing description. Jeez, drink something with some actual caffeine in it next time and we might get a real epic bruce h

Response:

(snipped report) That was a good read.  Excellent fishing description. Jeez, drink something with some actual caffeine in it next time and we might get a real epic bruce h

Be careful what you ask for I suppose I should have mentioned that I rarely have anything with a significant amount of caffeine in it, since 1987, on the recommendation of a cardiac specialist back then who determined it was aggravating a non-life-threatening-but-really-distracting "premature ventricular contraction" syndrome I had been experiencing. And though the PVCs passed after two years, never to return (yet, at least) I still usually avoid caffeine, as I discovered I really didn’t need it – and that the world was a better place without me on it… /daytripper (*definitely*!

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[snip] that the world was a better place without me on it…

Amen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I set my main anchor and starting paying out the anchor line – and totally misjudged the length of the line vs the speed of the outgoing current – and had the end of the anchor line slide through my hand and sink…. down…down….down to the bottom. … Did that once in the middle of the afternoon with half a dozen people on my boat watching…very embarassing. Indeed. Yet Paul – bless his heart – went very easy on me, considering the fullness of the opportunity. I don’t know that I’d be as kind, but then again, it was *my* boat, and we were a long way from land

You forgot to mention stranding me on little dummer with a dead battery.

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[snip] that the world was a better place without me on it… Amen

No, no, no Paul, he didn’t say "IN" it!         Wolfgang

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OK, this is a bit wordy. It didn’t start out that way, it just grew. Mostly ‘cuz I’m wound up like a friggin’ mainspring by caffeinated beverages, and I’d have to burn a kilo to flatten out. Deal with it…And pay no attention to the unethical counting…. So I’m kinda on this corporate shut-down thing for the week – although I’m supposed to be "available", whatever the hell that’s really supposed to mean, which is the only thing keeping me out of the mountains this week. Too bad, I’ll bet the alderflies are a’poppin right about now. So much for Plan A. Anyway, the weather forecast for this week starts out grim and gets worse – we’ll be in the mid 90’s and wicked humid for the next few days. And me with a dysfunctional air conditioning unit at home. Uh oh… Plan B is to spend as much time on water. Any water. So Monday morning I get my boat out of winter mothball mode, clean it up, slap the muffs and a hose on the engine,  fire it up, and wake the neighborhood dead for awhile while I checked the tires and get my gear on board. It looks good. We’re ready. Wife and sons are all working this week. Tough nuggies. Call the SO and let her know once I’m a little more than half way to the Merrimack. Can hear her silently crossing herself, figuring (1) I’m by myself on a big brawny river at night and (2) my back is still sorta healing up after the surgery. The surgery which she is still convinced was necessary because of the boat. Ahem… I tell her not to worry, Paul Goodwin’s gonna meet me at the launch. Then I call Paul  Whoops, no answer at work or on cell. Maybe he went fishing already? He finally calls back when I’m within 15 minutes of the river, he’ll definitely come but he’ll be an hour behind. No problem, I’ll putt around and work a few close by spots then pick him off the dock. So eventually we’re both on board and cruising down river towards the ocean. The tide is dead high so we spent the better part of a couple of hours stripping streamers up on Joppa Flats – basically a square mile of 6′ deep water at high tide – and mud and grass at low – with a vestigial island in the middle. A few weeks ago this area was blazing with activity, but tonite we’d only see the bait gommers with an occasional hook up. Two hours past high tide we motored out through the mouth into the ocean and fished the back side of the south channel rock jetty. This is a spot I always hit if I’m otherwise fishless – because I *always* catch at least a couple of fish here. It’s good for the first three hours of an outgoing tide, otherwise it’s crap. We had about an hour on the jetty point, with me holding the boat just in casting range of the rocks while Paul landed two stripers and popped another before that spot went dead. Towards the end I set two anchors to hold us in place and got in a few casts, got a smack but still blanked. We then scooted back into the river and up the tail edge of the flats, just south of the G13 can. The idea is to fish the drop off on the down stream edge, where the stripers should congregate to catch whatever gets swept off the flats. I’ve hit this spot on days where literally every cast produced a striper.  All you have to do is plop your anchor on the high side and ease down over the drop before making fast. So I set my main anchor and starting paying out the anchor line – and totally misjudged the length of the line vs the speed of the outgoing current – and had the end of the anchor line slide through my hand and sink…. down…down….down to the bottom. Damn – I hate it when I do that. Auxiliary Anchor instantly field promoted to Main Anchor. We fished this area as the sun set and the air began to cool, both on anchor and just drifting. Drifting worked better tonite, with Paul nabbing another couple of stripers, and me finally boating one. Then I got another. Things were looking up The stars were now out so we switched to black streamers. And I promptly caught another striper. And after a bit, my fourth one, a particularly feisty beast that got some really good knuckle-shots in on my reel hand and took me at least 5 minutes and about a quarter mile of drifting downstream to get in the boat. I’m guessing it was 24-25" – not legal, but a nice fish to end the evening, and a reaffirmation that flyfishing for stripers can be a blast… At 11PM and pitch black we motored back up the river, using the GPS to find each channel marker and bridge underpass in turn, as I had programmed into the unit a few years ago, and following the middle of the channel with the sonar display. Wonderful stuff, electronics. Hauled out in the dark (the $5 launch fees apparently won’t light the single streetlamp on the ramp, harrumph!), had my e-brake freeze solid two clicks from released when I backed down to haul the boat – gonna have to fix that beyotch now for sure, hit a local Wendy’s around midnight, then blasted home. Feeling great, back is fine. No ill effects, other than being wound up pretty tight from way too many Classic Cokes. (No – the *drink*, dammit!) SO will be eyeballing me like a hawk in the morning looking for damage, gonna have to literally pop out of bed on the run to keep the heat off me Mid-90’s and humid sucks on dry land. Much nicer to be on the water. Might just have to do the whole thing again tomorrow…Or maybe a lake… /daytripper (bzzzzzz….Man, how do people drink the *really* loaded stuff – like Jolt??)

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(bzzzzzz….Man, how do people drink the *really* loaded stuff – like Jolt??)

I used to drink that stuff back when I was closer to your age. It’s starting to wear off now. <g Nice TR. — Charlie…

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What a nice story – a couple weeks ago I was in Maine.  A buddy of mine took me out twice for stripers in the Yarmouth area.  We were using shooting heads – an absolute hoot – and chasing busting schools.  We had the adrenaline up as long as the tide held out! Pete Collin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, this is a bit wordy. It didn’t start out that way, it just grew. Mostly ‘cuz I’m wound up like a friggin’ mainspring by caffeinated beverages, and I’d have to burn a kilo to flatten out. Deal with it…And pay no attention to the unethical counting…. So I’m kinda on this corporate shut-down thing for the week – although I’m supposed to be "available", whatever the hell that’s really supposed to mean, which is the only thing keeping me out of the mountains this week. Too bad, I’ll bet the alderflies are a’poppin right about now. So much for Plan A. Anyway, the weather forecast for this week starts out grim and gets worse – we’ll be in the mid 90’s and wicked humid for the next few days. And me with a dysfunctional air conditioning unit at home. Uh oh… Plan B is to spend as much time on water. Any water. So Monday morning I get my boat out of winter mothball mode, clean it up, slap the muffs and a hose on the engine,  fire it up, and wake the neighborhood dead for awhile while I checked the tires and get my gear on board. It looks good. We’re ready. Wife and sons are all working this week. Tough nuggies. Call the SO and let her know once I’m a little more than half way to the Merrimack. Can hear her silently crossing herself, figuring (1) I’m by myself on a big brawny river at night and (2) my back is still sorta healing up after the surgery. The surgery which she is still convinced was necessary because of the boat. Ahem… I tell her not to worry, Paul Goodwin’s gonna meet me at the launch. Then I call Paul  Whoops, no answer at work or on cell. Maybe he went fishing already? He finally calls back when I’m within 15 minutes of the river, he’ll definitely come but he’ll be an hour behind. No problem, I’ll putt around and work a few close by spots then pick him off the dock. So eventually we’re both on board and cruising down river towards the ocean. The tide is dead high so we spent the better part of a couple of hours stripping streamers up on Joppa Flats – basically a square mile of 6′ deep water at high tide – and mud and grass at low – with a vestigial island in the middle. A few weeks ago this area was blazing with activity, but tonite we’d only see the bait gommers with an occasional hook up. Two hours past high tide we motored out through the mouth into the ocean and fished the back side of the south channel rock jetty. This is a spot I always hit if I’m otherwise fishless – because I *always* catch at least a couple of fish here. It’s good for the first three hours of an outgoing tide, otherwise it’s crap. We had about an hour on the jetty point, with me holding the boat just in casting range of the rocks while Paul landed two stripers and popped another before that spot went dead. Towards the end I set two anchors to hold us in place and got in a few casts, got a smack but still blanked. We then scooted back into the river and up the tail edge of the flats, just south of the G13 can. The idea is to fish the drop off on the down stream edge, where the stripers should congregate to catch whatever gets swept off the flats. I’ve hit this spot on days where literally every cast produced a striper.  All you have to do is plop your anchor on the high side and ease down over the drop before making fast. So I set my main anchor and starting paying out the anchor line – and totally misjudged the length of the line vs the speed of the outgoing current – and had the end of the anchor line slide through my hand and sink…. down…down….down to the bottom. Damn – I hate it when I do that. Auxiliary Anchor instantly field promoted to Main Anchor. We fished this area as the sun set and the air began to cool, both on anchor and just drifting. Drifting worked better tonite, with Paul nabbing another couple of stripers, and me finally boating one. Then I got another. Things were looking up The stars were now out so we switched to black streamers. And I promptly caught another striper. And after a bit, my fourth one, a particularly feisty beast that got some really good knuckle-shots in on my reel hand and took me at least 5 minutes and about a quarter mile of drifting downstream to get in the boat. I’m guessing it was 24-25" – not legal, but a nice fish to end the evening, and a reaffirmation that flyfishing for stripers can be a blast… At 11PM and pitch black we motored back up the river, using the GPS to find each channel marker and bridge underpass in turn, as I had programmed into the unit a few years ago, and following the middle of the channel with the sonar display. Wonderful stuff, electronics. Hauled out in the dark (the $5 launch fees apparently won’t light the single streetlamp on the ramp, harrumph!), had my e-brake freeze solid two clicks from released when I backed down to haul the boat – gonna have to fix that beyotch now for sure, hit a local Wendy’s around midnight, then blasted home. Feeling great, back is fine. No ill effects, other than being wound up pretty tight from way too many Classic Cokes. (No – the *drink*, dammit!) SO will be eyeballing me like a hawk in the morning looking for damage, gonna have to literally pop out of bed on the run to keep the heat off me Mid-90’s and humid sucks on dry land. Much nicer to be on the water. Might just have to do the whole thing again tomorrow…Or maybe a lake… /daytripper (bzzzzzz….Man, how do people drink the *really* loaded stuff – like

Jolt??)

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I just posted some pix on abpf of the fish we got.

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So I set my main anchor and starting paying out the anchor line – and totally misjudged the length of the line vs the speed of the outgoing current – and had the end of the anchor line slide through my hand and sink…. down…down….down to the bottom. … Did that once in the middle of the afternoon with half a dozen people on my boat watching…very embarassing.

Indeed. Yet Paul – bless his heart – went very easy on me, considering the fullness of the opportunity. I don’t know that I’d be as kind, but then again, it was *my* boat, and we were a long way from land The stars were now out so we switched to black streamers. … Do you usually do that ?

Yup. I think that’s covered in chapter 1 in the book "Stripers For Dummies" (which I have laying about somewhere  Moreover, a chunky black fly is called for, the more water displacement you can manage, the easier for the fish to find your fly in the dark… /daytripper (I think the dew point just met the temperature at 90. Horrible.)

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Question:

If I have told Wally once, I have told him a thousand times:  "Don’t fish *my* stream without talkin’ to me first!"  I would have been more than happy to remove the spell I have cast upon the stream, had I known that the two of you were goin’ to fish up there.  Wally makes this same bet with other fishermen Steve.  There is one ‘bow that I haven’t been able to get through to, and he and Wally are buddies, so the whole thing was rigged against you. Next time you really want to catch trout on "Opie’s" stream, just let me know! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought dinner for Waldo this evening. It seems I made a little streamside bet and he won. Here’s what happened…

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…eagerly awaiting Waldo’s dinner report…… john

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…eagerly awaiting Waldo’s dinner report…… john

well my friends, it all started innocently enough when steve (who by this time was wondering if there were any fish over 3" in opies crik) suggested that the first person who caught a trout of respectable size on a dry would be further rewarded with a free dinner by the other. that was the moment i decided to change flies. i had been fishing a hopper with a prince nymph dropper and snipped all that off and went to my good ole standby, a yellow humpy. as the day had progressed with little action on the muddy waters, i started skittering the humpy in some fast sluice runs. the only rainbow in the crik took offense, and nailed the humpy and i brought him to hand….. all the while singin that ‘ole blues ditty…. "justa’ catchin’ dinnuh… oh yeah…." i released the fish back into the waters knowing that it would be only a short time for steve to catch a trout. as dinner had been procured, i broke my fly off on a rhodo and let steve finish the stretch. he soon had a brookie at hand and seem satisfied. we pulled out and began the walk back to the car, both of us completely happy with the day. dinner was served at a local morganton eatery and when finished, steve headed home and i did likewise. one could wonder why we were happy with only a fish apiece of respectable size. well, i was overjoyed just to be back on some NC trout water after a hiatus of nearly two months….. long overdue and i’ll be damned if it will be that long…. ever again. –waldo

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I bought dinner for Waldo this evening. It seems I made a little streamside bet and he won. Here’s what happened… First off, I met Waldo at his brand spankin’ new fly shop this morning and it looks like a real winner. Nice location, nice inside layout, nice tackle just as on his Web site, with more brand name equipment to come soon as I understand it. Anyway, cool digs and I wish him success. Despite the heavy rains last night, we headed up "Opie’s" Creek for an afternoon of fishing. We had hoped to have legal representation during the trip, but none was available. A good lawyer is apparently hard to find these days. The water levels were rather high (from what I understand–this was my first visit to this particular stream) and the water was a bit murkier than normal, but it was nothing to be afraid of and certainly not conditions that would keep the two of us from fishing since neither one of us has fished the NC mountains in well over a month. That’s pretty much status quo for me, of course, but Waldo was visibly shaking by the time we got rigged up The water was cold–sorry JeffC1474 I forgot to take a streamside temperature reading–the weather was very nice, the company was grand. All the makings of a great day on the stream. Except that apparently someone forgot to tell the fish. As far as casting and fly placement goes, I had my best stuff today and left it all on the stream. I ended up catching about 14 sucker minnows all under 2 inches in length. Seriously. Neither one of us could buy a "real" fish even with nymphs and we both worked the water HARD. That stream has some of the most choice runs, ripples and pools I have ever seen and we got nothing. Nada. Bupkus. Finally, I needed to see if the master could break the spell and bring a trout to hand so I suggested that the first one to catch a fish longer than 2 inches on a dry fly should receive a free meal compliments of the loser. Lemme just say that Waldo sure knows how to work for a meal Actually, it looked for a time as though we would both go hungry, but finally Waldo was rewarded with a nice rainbow and then I caught a little brookie (over 2" but not by a whole heck of a lot) on the next cast. So, he won the dinner and I came in a close–oh so close–second. Bon apetite, Waldo me boy. Already looking forward to next time, –Steve

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Question:

Enjoyed your report, I was up that way a couple of weeks ago and went to Steep Banks. 12 guys standing around casting into one small pool, it might be famous but it did not interest me. Waded on up the river but had no luck except in a couple of small pools.  ;The word was that the fish would be in the river in a couple of weeks, but I could not wait  so moved over to Upper Dam and caught a couple of 15inch salmon and three trout close in but was not interested in standing out in the flow for three hours in one spot to catch a fish.  The one thing I have to say was that the whole area was dead drop beautiful  but guess I still prefer the mountains of North Carolina , climbing over the rocks to catch a 8inch trout.     Indian Joe Wilmington N.C.

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Great report, Allen.  Too bad you could not make it to the Rapid.  I am heading up to the East Branch of the Kennebec this week with a couple of friends.  And, yes, I’m bringing warm clothes. Dave L.

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Dave and Injun, The whole trip really cemented in my mind where my wife and I will end up living in a few years. Hope youu don’t mind sharing the fish and birds! Allen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Allen.  Too bad you could not make it to the Rapid.  I am heading up to the East Branch of the Kennebec this week with a couple of friends.  And, yes, I’m bringing warm clothes. Dave L.

  gaepps.vcf

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Folks, Work has been keeping me from even lurking the last few weeks but SWMBO and I have just returned from a trip north to RI for her folks 50th anniversary and then up to Rangeley ME for a week to help a friend winter prep his camp and wet a line for a bit. I’ve never been up that way before but from all the folks I talked to the water was way low and the fishing slow. Our friends camp is "Fiddlehead" just below Bald Mtn on Rangeley lake but ended up fishing the Kennebunk pretty far down. "Steep Bank" came highly recommended but "take a number" fishing is not my bag anymore. We hiked up the stream a bit and despite having spent a lot of time in the woods it’s pretty easy to see how folks become lost in the Maine woods. Thick does not begin to describe it and had to restart the heart once due to flushing Grouse. Upstream was shallow and no real cover so back down to what we found later was called "Trout Rock" Gorgeous little pool with a steep rock pile on one side and about 6′ deep. Started by casting #10 Black Ghost (might as well start local). Ended up going up and down a bit and finally settled on a #16 Brassie. That turned out to surprisingly be the ticket. 4 nice Brookies all about 12-14 inches. Such gorgeous fish my hands trembled releasing them. Finally a Salmon showed some interest. The barest tap and I was on to a 19" fish that explored all corners of the pool before coming to net. Again, I was awed by the colors and spirit of the fish. My wife and I got up early the next morning and headed to the the stream running from the Little Kennebago. Bright day but cold (28 F) and no wind. If you didn’t see the ice forming in your guides you wouldn’t have noticed the cold. A couple strikes but no fish did see a beaver and had to come to a complete stop on the way home to let a brace of Grouse get out of the road. Just before we joined rt. 16 again had a cow Moose stop right along side the road and stare as we stopped to take her picture. This was the first time my wife has fly fished and I think she got the picture that’s its not just the fish. Sorry for the general disjointness of this report but as we just got home I thought I’d drop in and try and break up the politics Before I lost the mental pictures I brought home. With work being all consuming at times we have to stop and spend time afield with rod or gun to put things in perspective. Allen Epps Catonsville MD

  gaepps.vcf

< 1K Download

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Question:

Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with.

If you’re there the first weekend, I’ll miss meeting you.   (My photo on rw’s page is on the Salmon R.)  The run should be going strong that weekend though. Don’t put too much expectation into the FFO stretch.   Up there, they’ll crimp a couple ounces of huge split shot onto some 30# mono, put a piece of colored sponge on a #2 hook and lob the entire mess into the river with a fly rod. That unfortunately satisfies the FFO regulations. Catching those big guys on a fly rod is a blast, though, even if it’s sometimes a bit too easy (and sometimes not).   Dead drift a nymph (teeny nymphs and egg patterns are good) with one to three (at the most) BB sized split shot to just bounce on the bottom (depending on depth & flow).   Use a big strike indicator. It’s a simple enough rig to roll cast and has been fantastically effective for me.   The hard part is landing the fish in the midst of a crowd of spin fishermen.   They *will* take you into your backing.   And if you haven’t been there before, you’ll be amazed at the crowds.   Even if you don’t fish there (and I recommend you don’t), drive through downtown Pulaski and check out the insane mobs lining the banks there.   It’s a zoo.   Oh yeah – 8 wt. or 9 wt. E-mail me if you want more info. Joe F.

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Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with. Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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(1) Cabela has a 5-pc 8wt stowaway with 96% graphite for $80. (2) Natl Sports Supply has a "Gallatin" 5-pc 9wt (or 10wt) IM6 pack rod with removable fighting butt for $119.  I bought one of these and like it.  Medium action. http://877icefish.safeshopper.com/80/213.htm?672 The Gallatin is said to be corrosion resistant.  I found nothing on it that attracts a magnet. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October

Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

If you prefer a moderate action, take a look at the St. Croix Avid series. I have a 6wt. and really like the way it casts. They are also fairly inexpensive. A friend of mine has an 8wt Sage DS 2, which he loves. I’ve never thrown it though, so can’t comment. Scott

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

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The 8wt Stowaway I got has an attached fighting butt -= appr 1" long. I don’t know if the metal fittings are actually anodized, but those on the reel seat appear to have a corrosion resistant coating (birds-eye maple insert). I call the action fast, but its different than my fast IMX which has most of its flex near the tip.  Though the Stowaway does not flex as readily as my old IM6 rods, the flex comes much further down the blank.  Given Cabela’s liberal return policy, I suggest you order one & try it yourself. The only thing I don’t like about it is that it has a half wells handle that tapers down to a fairly slim diameter.  Since I have quite large hands, I prefer a full wells – especially on larger rods. Bob Weinberger BTW I first flyfished for trout (more years ago than I care to remember) in what I believe is your neck of the woods – the gorge section of the Raritan.

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Bob I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt?

Peter,  it does have a fighting butt attached (not removeable, or at least not on mine 8 wt stowaway, anyway), and I don’t think it is anodized, either. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

Response:

I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

Response:

Question:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Yes it is entirely reasonable Scott. St Croix has the Legend series of fly rods for around $100, I own 3 of them and entirely satisfied with them all. There are several of us on this NG who have "discovered" Cabela’s 3 Forks and Stowaway series flyrods. I can tell you that I have extensively tested all my 3 Forks and Stowaways and they are well worth the money. Probably the best dollar for dollar buy on fly rods anywhere. Since you are new at this flyrodding business, a slower action rod would be the best choice for you, and the Cabela’s rods are slow action rods.  You will be fishing for trout on the Rogue (presumably) I would recommend a 5 wt 9 footer.  St Croix carries this in One other piece of advice, you can get a good reel these days for around $40 and up, and that’s really all you need, but get a decent quality line.  Hope this helps. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… p rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… b cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Welcome to flyfishing Scott.  If you want a very economical starter set, I would suggest a Pflueger Purist 5 or 6 wt 8 1/2′ rod from Kmart or GI Joe’s for about $45 and a Pflueger Medalist reel (about $30?) or an Okuma Sierra (for $39 from www.Ezyflyfish.com), and a Cortland Fair Play fly line to match the rod.  All for well under a $100.  The rods are surprisingly good performers compared to anything I’ve tried for under $100.  I agree with the idea of renting or borrowing some equipment first, if possible, and also taking some flycasting lessons. Good Luck flyfishing, Pat K * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

John, I got the beer, but where’s my steak? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

I’ve been watching this thread pretty close and it has come to my attention that more well thought out posts are now being offered. There are a great many more posts that recommend low cost great for beginners starter kits like the Cabelas line and a lot less of the "what do you want to fish for and where" along with the "get what fits you" and "The better you learn with, the better you’ll be (meaning spend a bundle on a fast long rod.) The last of which is pure BS. A beginner needs a rod that will let him feel loading and allow him time to react, is forgiving of off timing and minor foepas. Is not expensive to buy leaving enough for vet flys etc. is short enough not to tangle in tree limbs. Last but not least is a combination that is still of use even after the graduation up to the faster longer rods as expertise grows. The best advice is to amass all the mail order catalogs you can get. Study them, Then purchase a starter combo that is slow, short , and pleases your eye. By the way the reel is important unless you are fishing for shinners. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

The FAQ page can be found on the new ROFF page.  The link is bellow.  A lot of other good ROFF information is also on the page.  Enjoy.  :-) BTW, I like the Cabela’s rods for the buck.  Check out http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/C abFALL1998/CabFALL1998AVATAA/IA495C They are in your price range and would be a good starting point. However you should know that after you’re hooked, you might want something that cost a little bit more and that fits your particular fishing style. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. (snip) Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland for $150 and this Cahill (snip)… I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

YES Thanks! Scott

Before you buy.

Response:

…this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG.

There is a FAQ somewhere, but the best advice on ROFF is "DUCK!" and "Be afraid, be very afraid…"  <G.  Seriously, a FAQ on this would be kinda useless, as there are many opinions.  You know what they say about opinions and assholes?   Well, ROFF is ground zero…<G. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy.

Oregon?  There are some here that will be a great help, I’m sure. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65.

JMO, but I wouldn’t buy your first rod via mail order.  Trying to buy a rod/reel this way is like saying "I like blue.  Please send blue pants." You really need to actually feel, handle, and optimally, cast the rod, especially as a novice. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

Well, again, JMO, but you did ask:  Is that reasonable?  Yes.  Possible? Yes.  Likely?  Depends.  Confused?  Sorry.  Seriously, it is related to the advice above in that you need to find a rod you like, and you might like a 20.00 rod or you might like a 2000.00 rod.   If your situation is such that money is no object, then buy what you like, period, be it 20.00 or 2000.00.  IMO, any synthetic rod over about 200.00 is priced for reasons other than "cost," i.e. seat and handle hardware, finish, guides, name, handwork, warranty, etc., and is a "value to buyer" situation.  This is OK, just understand what your money is buying. If you need/want to stay on a budget (or just have a frugal streak), go get a cheapo rod and reel (if you buy a "Starter Set," you will likely need another line) at WalMart/KMart or get something used, like at a pawn shop, in the appropriate size.  Why?  Simple: you likely don’t know what you like, and having no experience to go on, won’t know cheap from expensive, or even if you like the sport, so why risk any more than needed to check it out?  I’ll say JMO, but I’d doubt any could prove me wrong: A 20.00 flyrod can have, and usually does have, more in common with a 1000.00 rod than a novice would think, same for a 15.00 versus a 600.00 reel (learning, practice, freshwater, and, generally, fish under 15ish pounds), but a 15.00 line is not likely even close to 40.00 line. A 1500.00 rig will not be easier or faster to learn on, nor will it necessarily be "better" for a particular person.  Buy a good DT (Double Taper) line for practice because when you wear one end out _practicing_(hint, hint), you can reverse it and have a "new line."  A WF (Weight Forward) would seem a waste here, but YMMV. Also, JMO: you can teach yourself, but lessons from a pro or experienced flyrodder can be invaluable and will likely speed things up.  This is where some "budgeting" might come in: If a shop you like and feel you trust offers free classes for new customers, but charges for non-customers, that might figure into the above "cheapo" advice, and would likely be worth figuring in. HTH? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Scott

Response:

Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo,

You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Question:

I like the deep diving ff shad in the crawdad pattern,but day in and day

out the tube rules for me,in stained water I like a smoke colour with red fleck and in clear water the salt&pepper has worked great,I’ve been fishin smallies here in Ont. for years and there’s nothin like it!use light tackle and really enjoy it.Hope it helps and good luck                

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally found a place fairly close to go fishing for smallies. What’s some good bait’s to try? Thanks,  Bill

Response:

This is a river (Nottoway) SW of Richmond , Va. Exactly what kind of tube jigs are everyone referring to? For large mouth, I got rid of everything I had except plastic worms and a few top water baits. The only tube jigs I,m familiar with are the small ones for Crappie fishing. Thanks,  Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – River or lake?? it does make a big difference..also region… THAT"S WHAT DICK SAID * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Exactly what kind of tube jigs are everyone referring to Thanks,  Bill.

I can not speak for everyone here but the tube jigs that I am referring to are the phenix tubes. If you would like to order some you can contact a friend of mine. He can be reached at phone number  1-519-766=hook(4665) his name is ray, he has allowed me to post this and is willing to ship to whom ever wants the best tubes money can buy.

Response:

This is a river (Nottoway) SW of Richmond , Va. Exactly what kind of tube jigs are everyone referring to? For large mouth, I got rid of everything I had except plastic worms and a few top water baits. The only tube jigs I,m familiar with are the small ones for Crappie fishing.

Tube jigs are manufactured by many outfits.  You can fish them on the bottom by inserting a lead head jig hook into them or fish them off the bottom via a Carolina rig with styrofoam packed into the jig and a plain hook threaded into it (or use a floating jighead).  In smaller sizes they can also be fished a fixed distance under the surface by using a float. Mepps Aglias always worked well for me too.  You need to learn how to fish them in different depths and to read the water.  Having the spinner rise up towards the surface at the end of the swing as your line tightens and to be able to place your lure so that this happens right as the spinner is near good-looking structure is an effective method.  Most people just toss out spinners and retrieve them blindly which is an inefficient method of fishing with spinners.  Then, convinced of their ineffectiveness, they relegate spinners to a lonely spot in the tackle box.   A small 4" plastic worm in pumpkinseed, chameleon. motor oil-fleck, june bug (you get the idea, drab earth tone colors – though sometimes chartreuse and white are the hot tickets) drifted under a float works well too. If you are drifting along with the current in a canoe or boat you don’t need a float just let the line out and watch for strikes. I would suggest you consider trying to learn to fly fish for them if your river is wadable or if you have a boat (though I definitely feel wading is infinitely more interesting). You won’t need great casting skills or finesse (generally speaking) and it’s a whole lot of fun.  An inexpensive setup from KMart or Cabelas will be sufficient.   Learning to read the water, not choice of lure will help you the most however in catching the fish in my opinion. Mu Young Lee Ann arbor, MI  USA

Response:

This is a river (Nottoway) SW of Richmond , Va. Exactly what kind of tube jigs are everyone referring to? For large mouth, I got rid of everything I had except plastic worms and a few top water baits. The only tube jigs I,m familiar with are the small ones for Crappie fishing.

 I know this place Bill . I suggest a 1/4 oz , tandem ( gold colorado , silver willow ) , white spinnerbait with a split tail trailer . I also suggest a pearl super fluke on a 4/0 gamakatsu hook . And the key to both of the baits is to remember that there is current and present your lure with it .

Response:

Thanks for your help, I’ll definitely try your suggestions.  Thank again, Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a river (Nottoway) SW of Richmond , Va. Exactly what kind of tube jigs are everyone referring to? For large mouth, I got rid of everything I had except plastic worms and a few top water baits. The only tube jigs I,m familiar with are the small ones for Crappie fishing.  I know this place Bill . I suggest a 1/4 oz , tandem ( gold colorado , silver willow ) , white spinnerbait with a split tail trailer . I also suggest a pearl super fluke on a 4/0 gamakatsu hook . And the key to both of the baits is to remember that there is current and present your lure with it .

Response:

I finally found a place fairly close to go fishing for smallies. What’s some good bait’s to try? Thanks,  Bill

Response:

Try tube jigs ,I like deep diving bomber crankbaits(model A) in baby bass color.They work the best in some current. Crank them as slow as possible this time of year and hold on.I just caught a five pounder my biggest ever on 11-28-99 using this pattern.

Response:

River or lake?? it does make a big difference..also region… THAT"S WHAT DICK SAID * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am going to have to get some of these Tube Jigs I keep reading about here. My brother had a few last summer and they were catching where nothing else was. However, He did catch a 6 1/2 lb Smallmouth last spring. On a white small sized crank bait he found about two weeks before! I was extremely jealous! John Diel www.2stupiddogs.net Oklahoma Fishing Reports and More!

Response:

Question:

I’ve owned a cabin on the banks of the San Juan and fished it for almost 30 yrs.It is a year round river.The only hard time to fish it is in most of May and June when the Waters is High,Somtimes 10  times as  much water. The guides still do well with drift Boats There are lots of good Guides. Id recommed Born and Raise’d owned by Tim Chaves. Call Abe’s At Navijo Dam NM. Abe’s  has a store,rest, and can book the guides. ( Tim is Abe’s son.Ive found his guides very good.I have my own Drift boat now,and they are still helpful. I was up there last week and it was awsome fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides? If not replying here, please reply to my e-mail. Thanks in advance to those who would consider advising me on making my trip more enjoyable.

Response:

I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if

it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides?<<< Sorry this is so late. If I can still help, give me a hollar at work (800-395-6397) and I’ll tell you how great the fishing is. I’m the outdoor editor for the local paper and I talk to guides, anglers and others at least weekly. Fishing has been very good all summer. Last weekend they held a catch-and-release tournament and the winner caught 46 fish averaging 16 inches. Now this was a bi-fly tournament where competitors could only tally fish when using one of two flies (one wet and one dry) they chose each day. If they broke off, they were without that fly for the rest of the day. Great nymphing using chocolate emergers and dry fly action has been real good as well. A caddis hatch is slowing way down now, but there is still a good baetis hatch every day. I’m not a real serious fly-angler, however, so I don’t know this stuff first hand. Give me a hollar, or drop e-mail, if you’d like more info. I could offer the names of several great outfitters, whose guides will put you on fish consistently. Average fish is 16 inches. One 26-incher pushing nine pounds was caught in the last week or two. Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

The San Juan is truly a year round river. All you need is a supply of small

size #18-22 (#20 most widely used) dark brown or light grey  RS-2’s and or WD-40’s as your dropper fly and an attractor fly 6 to 8 inches above, use a San Juan worm, disco midge, egg etc…every other bug used on the river is a variation or cousin to the RS-2 or WD-40.<<< Everything said is true to the best my knowledge. Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

Sorry this is so late. If I can still help, give me a hollar at work (800-395-6397) and I’ll tell you how great the fishing is. I’m the outdoor editor for the local paper and I talk to guides, anglers and others at least weekly. Fishing has been very good all summer. Last weekend they held a catch-and-release tournament and the winner caught 46 fish averaging 16 inches.

[el snippo] Well, that last sentence ought to get Our Friend Tim in a rich lather again. I swear you guys go out of your way to get him all riled up…

Response:

Well, that last sentence ought to get Our Friend Tim in a rich lather again. I swear you guys go out of your way to get him all riled up…

No, sorry. I’m new here and didn’t mean to rile anyone up. I assume this Tim guy doesn’t like numbers trotted out. Sorry, I’m not big into numbers myself, but some people are impressed with inches and fish caught per hour and all that. To me, if I can forget about work for a while, I’m ahead of the game. <G Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides? If not replying here, please reply to my e-mail. Thanks in advance to those who would consider advising me on making my trip more enjoyable.

Response:

The San Juan is truly a year round river. All you need is a supply of small size #18-22 (#20 most widely used) dark brown or light grey  RS-2’s and or WD-40’s as your dropper fly and an attractor fly 6 to 8 inches above, use a San Juan worm, disco midge, egg etc…every other bug used on the river is a variation or cousin to the RS-2 or WD-40. No guide needed ( they never hurt tho and you can find some good guides at abe’s if needed). Expect lots of people but if your using the above bugs you will catch fish. I guarantee it!!!!!! ] -Mike

Response:

Question:

Comparaduns are a style of fly, i.e. no hackle, and the Hendrickson is a particular design to match either the Ephemerella subvaria as a Light Hendrickson, or the Ephemerella X , as the dark pattern. Check Al Caucci’s homepage at www.mayfly.com for comparadun info he invented the things. jg

Caucci may have coined the term "comparadun," but I believe the style of fly (no hackle with hair wing) was developed by Fran Betters as the "Haystack."  Either way, it’s a pattern that works when standard Catskill ties don’t. Michael

Response:

Comparaduns are a style of fly, i.e. no hackle, and the Hendrickson is a particular design to match either the Ephemerella subvaria as a Light Hendrickson, or the Ephemerella X , as the dark pattern. Check Al Caucci’s homepage at www.mayfly.com for comparadun info he invented the things. jg

Response:

I am both a novice fly fisherman and fly tyer.  I am looking for a good recipe for a comparadun pattern and a Hendrickson pattern.  Preferably the patterns will be relative to the Michigan/Great Lakes region and the recipes will also come with tying instructions.  I realize that this may sound a little demanding but I am very much a novice fly tyer. I would also be forever grateful. thanx. NEWFISHBOY  

Post this same message to: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying B.

Response:

 I am both a novice fly fisherman and fly tyer.  I am looking for a good  recipe for a comparadun pattern and a Hendrickson pattern.

Those are in many of the soft-bound books on the market.  Check your local flyshop.

Response:

I am both a novice fly fisherman and fly tyer.  I am looking for a good recipe for a comparadun pattern and a Hendrickson pattern.  Preferably the patterns will be relative to the Michigan/Great Lakes region and the recipes will also come with tying instructions.  I realize that this may sound a little demanding but I am very much a novice fly tyer. I would also be forever grateful. thanx. NEWFISHBOY  

Response:

Question:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

I’m sorry, but the issue should be not what technology is used, but rather the attitude and the intend with which it is employed.  The purist takes issue with the uninitiated to avoid having to share, as by sharing, in his mind, he is reduced. Peter

Response:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

You don’t want to know unless your sure your waders don’t leak. Mike

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

A fine question. I fish for a variety of reasons. The strongest is that I love the sea, I go there summer and winter with or without a rod, but fishing is what turns voyeurism into an actual connection for me. That connection can be made with a 12′ surf rod, or a dropline even, but I use a fly rod. I enjoy the uncertainty of fly fishing. When I began my friends all used spinning gear, and would probably catch 20 cod before I would catch anything on the fly. But once I’d catch something they would say "I can’t believe you actually caught something on that rod." This gave me a sense of accomplishment, a feeling of overcoming an obstacle. I like that. With my surf rod I can go out and spray casts all over the place and cover a tremendous amount of water, and I will catch a fish more often than not. With my fly rod I can only fish water within 100′ of me. Sometimes this water doesn’t look like it can hold anything, and when it does it is a happy surprise. It’s this surprise I like best in fishing, and the more I tip the odds in my favor the less of a surprise it is when I catch a fish. So for me technology diminishes the joy I find in fishing. That’s why when I’m in my boat I try never to look at the fishfinder. I look at the water depth so I can find changes, then turn it off. I think the purpose of many of the technological advances in sport are marketing driven. Make something difficult easier and you get more appeal to the masses. If it took 100 hours for every fish we caught, many would not fish, so for the industry it’s good business to make the sport easier. People who are new to the sport will not notice the difference, and will probably get as much enjoyment from it as I do. I would not enjoy using their methods, and they probably would not enjoy mine, and I think that’s OK. All this makes me think back to a bumper sticker I had in the 70s that said "Short Skiis Suck". In order to make skiing easier and more widely appealing, manufacturers put out these short, easy to skid turn skiis. All of a sudden any bozo could survive a difficult run. Those of us who were still on 205s, 210s etc. didn’t care for this, and didn’t care for the difference it made in the shape of a mogul; gnarly choppy bumps instead of smooth, rounded bumps. When I think of this it seems to me that in any sport major technology shifts will be despised by those who got there without them, while the newer people will wonder what’s the big deal. That most of what I like is the traditional and most of what I don’t like is technological just tells me that I’m getting on in years :-                                                 jc

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Michael: Electric socks keep ones feet warm while hunting in sub-zero temperatures. Well, they’d keep them warm at any time, but are especially useful when hunting in seriously cold weather. Might I add they are also useful for wearing under waders when you’re going to be in super-cold water. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

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Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Look at them as part of your outdoor potty training. They teach you to pee far from you standing position, and not to dribble. 8^) Bruce….

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer.

This is in the same vein as my post from last week on "What is flyfishing to You: Was…". Its something that takes some meditation to answer with the convictions of truth. Your ruminations focusing on technology are well meant but the more I consider it the more I think they are perhaps misplaced. The reason is that what you describe relishing is the challenge of succeeding in a "fair chase" endeavor. This is not merely the harvesting (or R’ing) of the game but is the overcoming of obstacles barring your way to that success. Thus, for an accomplished sportsman excess technological "advantages" take the challenge and fun out of the endeavor. For those of lesser prowess, these technological advantages put them into the game closer to the same challenge level as the more accomplished individuals and can therefore experience similar joys when they succeed occasionally. As sporting prowess increases, the sportsman will often shift the balance in the "fair chase" equation back to a level that gives more challenge, thus voluntarily negating to some extent their increased skill level. This is often accomplished by going to more traditional and less technological methods (witness the resurgence of popularity in long bow archery for hunting to replace compound bows) or by setting and only seeking greater challenges for themselves (trophy bucks only, traveling to impenetrable areas to fish, targeting very selective trout, etc, etc). In the end, it is all relative to the individual. A sportsman, as I see it, certainly wants some success but not necessarily too much so that a challenge remains to be met. Where an individual falls on this scale can be shifted through technological innovation. It may be true to some extent that the ultimate purist has the least success in their sport (in terms of numbers). When I consider what flyfishing is to me I can roll over a litany of single experiences in my mind but none of them suffice as individual justifications to flyfish (or bowhunt, which falls in the same aesthetic category for me). When I look back at memories of flyfishing the conclusion that I have come to is that these endeavors are the closest thing to a striving for perfection that I may ever experience. What are the true memories at the end of a season? It is not the nice day catching many fish, one after another. It is not the various places gone, people seen, sunsets, bugs, gear, or water. These are part of the collage of experience that you can lovingly thumb through upon reflection but not the core. The core memories are the fleeting moments when the striving for perfection has been nearly achieved, the proper selection of gear for a promising spot never before considered or never properly fished before. A new insight and the laying in of the right fly on a lightly presented cast- just right. A sipping rise and a good fish on, well played and now in hand and for a moment in time everything has stopped and the universe has altered its course to revolve around that fleeting instant where judgement and skill (and perhaps some luck) have combined to meet the challenge that has been set. It may be the only fish of the day but it will be remembered long after the season ends and many more fish have been taken with less grace and spirit. So there flows the river Why. Jon (Am in total agreement on the "gotta get my game (fill in species here)" to have fun attitude described previously)

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As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme"

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Question:

I’m looking at Jet Boats for Klamath River. How is important is a center console and how big a boat and how much HP needed for two adult fisherman, opinions appreciated?

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I’m looking at jet boats for the Klamath river, CA. How important is a center console and what do you think is an adequate msize boat & motor for tow adults? All, opinions appreciated.

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Whew!…I allways get shakey when I see a post for jet boats!….they are a major nusiance on some rivers here in Montana…for that matter any motorized boat is a nusiance on a river(of wading size)….we had a clown in a boat down on the lower clark fork one summer…he would cruise at nearly full trottle up and down the river all day long…if you were wading and didn’t get out of the water quickly his wake would come up over your wader tops…it would put rising fish down for 15-20 minutes…and just when they got back on the fin, he’d come zooming back down the river…a lot of flyfisherman were talking about this guy that summer and threatening to strangle him!

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I don’t know about MT laws, but in WA this will get the guy a big fine. A person in waders is considered a SWIMER, and requires boats to maintain a 100 yard distance or be below 5 MPH.  Not sure on the exact distance in all cases, but the lakes around here enforce 100 yds. Also, any boat is ALWAYS responsible for its wake.  Check laws, and if you can’t get a local law officer out, get a few buddies togeather, get the guys boat number and personal ID.  If he blows you off at this point he will be in bigger trouble.  File a complaint at the local agency.  May require a day in court, but I bet he will learn the lesson very quickly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whew!…I allways get shakey when I see a post for jet boats!….they are a major nusiance on some rivers here in Montana…for that matter any motorized boat is a nusiance on a river(of wading size)….we had a clown in a boat down on the lower clark fork one summer…he would cruise at nearly full trottle up and down the river all day long…if you were wading and didn’t get out of the water quickly his wake would come up over your wader tops…it would put rising fish down for 15-20 minutes…and just when they got back on the fin, he’d come zooming back down the river…a lot of flyfisherman were talking about this guy that summer and threatening to strangle him!

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Hey, Mellow out!!    Jet boats are like mt bikes, 200 watt stereos and fly fishing "experts". A little abuse and social ineptitude can go a long ways. Several days ago I was on the Yuba when a couple of kids came fishing through with spinning gear. A flyfishing expert (in his own mind) yelled to me, "some day these guys will earn how to REALLY fish". I’m sure it just made their day.    I’ve got a 16′ aluminum jon style river boat with a 40hp outboard jet on it. I’ve had (and still have) whalers, drift boats, canoes, float tubes, kayaks, ad nauseum. . . and nothing has come close in terms of flyfishing versatility to this little jet job.  It’s quite, leaves a flat wake, floats on dew, and can fish me anywhere in the Sacramento Delta, the San Francisco Bay or on any boatable lake or river on the West coast. Just because it can go 35mph doesn’t mean it has too. It has a trolling motor and oar locks and I put just about as many miles on the thing with the motor out of the water as I do with it in.    As far as the answer to the original question, I don’t know . . . never been on that river in a jet. As far as all of the responses to the guy’s query. . . get a life.    Tight lines, Ralph —

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The absolute best jet boat on a wadeable stream is aluminum, has a large hole in the hull slightly aft of the bow, a dead engine and is on a trailer heading for somewhere else.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Get a life..exactly…and keep motor boats off Montana ’s rivers!

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:    I’ve got a 16′ aluminum jon style river boat with a 40hp outboard jet : on it. I’ve had (and still have) whalers, drift boats, canoes, float : tubes, kayaks, ad nauseum. . . and nothing has come close in terms of : flyfishing versatility to this little jet job.   I too, like the idea of jetting to a great spot to fish, but what do you think the boat does to the fish you pass over?  I’ll bet they hide for hours afterward.  This can happen on the Salmon in Idaho.  Knee deep in beautiful water and then a jet boat goes through.  Might as well hang it up, because the fish go down… It probably soesn’t matter as much on the bigger rivers.  But I don’t know… the Salmon collects from one of the largest drainages in America. I think I prefer to go upstream and pontoon boat down.  I’ll buy my first boat this year.  It seems this approach would disturb the fish much less.  Opinions? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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About 6 mos ago I hit a reference on the net to a study that the state of Alaska had initiated.  Basically, they were going to look at the effects of jet boat traffic on spawning chinook.  The study was going to focus on small (undefined) waters.  The concern was that the heavy traffic in some areas was adversley impacting the fish.  Unfortunately, I no longer have the reference to the site or the study.  Might check on Alaska DFG site. Power boating is apparently an issue in New Zealand (Simon Lusk, chip in here please).  As part of the scenic river plan for the Deschutes River, a literature search was done about 3 years ago and at that time, the only studies on impacts of jet boats on fish, riparian habitat, bank degradation etc. that were found had been done in NZ.  It does appear that in some instances there can be an impact on sediment displacement/load in shoreside areas and bank erosion from wave wash. In addition to habitat issues, there is a growing concern about conflict between user groups as use becomes more intensive, particularly on smaller or more confined waters such as most of the water we fish for trout.  Urban planners dealt with a similiar problem a long time ago…There are not many cities in this country that DON’T have one-way streets…. On big water such as the Snake, other considerations are raised…is "wild and scenic" compatible with 300hp 40mph, ??decible power boat traffic?  The Forest Service and the non-powerboating public thinks not.  See new boat traffic regs on Snake.  The Deschutes River (lower river) has power boat free weeks during the season and there is a lot of pressure to remove them entirely.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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What follows is an e-mail response to a post on Jet Boats.  "Bogus"=counterfeit, fake.  Sorry, it was a real post, I realy did post it, you realy did read it.  I am still looking to see exactly where my occupation is listed however.  Not too long ago I heard a fairly well respected guide and author tell a jet boat owner that was a bit unhappy about regulations on powerboats that he should consider selling his mega foot mega horspower jet boat for mega dollars and investing the proceeds in an education…..then maybe he wouldn’t feel compelled to turn every body of running water into a drag strip. I would appreciate any references to studies, bogus or otherwise, that indicate that the use of jet boats in confined waters is beneficial to fish or habitat. The only bogus study involving jet boats that I am aware of also involved bass boats.  A study of boat owning penile transplant candidates indicated that over 65% of them owned either jet sleds or bass boats.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane hi.com Your post concerning JET Boat studies & spawning is BOGUS.Do your research before making such BS Claims. Perhaps if you spent some time at a job that afforded your more economic return(and less time clogging the net with this bulll shit) you might some get to the best fishing in a jet Boat. "When the Trout are lost" i’ts your fault for allowing it to happen !

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