Question:

<Ahem Not to mention what else might be a "red light" special…considering the idea of a "red light district"….. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Trish,  the other Kathy here (the horsey one I think!) Glad to hear about your printer victory!  I had to laugh though cause here in K-Mart they have "blue light specials" not RED light! Isn’t that funny!  Just like the show ribbons…we get blue for first place, so I guess they think *blue* on the specials! I wish someone would *throw* printer ink cartridges at me….please? Kathy in NC (but not the other one…<BG) 8-D

Response:

Trish, just the ink cartridges are a treasure!  Those things are expensive and always run out at the wrong moment (in the middle of an intricate XS pattern).  For my color printer (Canon) they’re almost $30 each. Can I come hang around you for a while?  Maybe some of it will rub off. …Pam in Dallas (plus, it’s really hot here) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

Life is sweet, isn’t it?

Ain’t it just! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

Response:

<snipt So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Run, do not walk, to your local lottery agent.  :-) Great news.  Couldn’t happen to nicer people. Mike

Michael, my love, is your *real* name ‘Lucky Seven’??? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kathy, Kathy! Me too! There must be something in the air! (Erm… hang on, your air is not the same as my air…) Our printer died last month. We were really depressed, because it meant that DH couldn’t print out his assignments here at home, but had to travel to the University to do it. And of course I couldn’t print out my XS patterns or anything either. Yesterday, DH met his brother at KMart and they went looking for birthday presents for their respective DDs. The red light special was announced, so DH *shot* to the clearance trolley (as is his wont: *no-one* has a nose for a bargain like my Hunn). There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Hi Trish,  the other Kathy here (the horsey one I think!) Glad to hear about your printer victory!  I had to laugh though cause here in K-Mart they have "blue light specials" not RED light! Isn’t that funny!  Just like the show ribbons…we get blue for first place, so I guess they think *blue* on the specials! I wish someone would *throw* printer ink cartridges at me….please? Kathy in NC (but not the other one…<BG) 8-D

Response:

Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I

LOL. I discovered, while on our honeymoon in California, that a wonderful place to find Kreinik blending filament and ribbon is at the local fishing/fly shops. I picked up a spool of copper ribbon for about $0.30 at The Fly Shop in CA. (I only got the one because they only had ribbon…. and I mainly wanted it for the "Fly-Tying Ribbon" cardboard backer. :::grin:::) –Kris WIPs: My first hardanger project! Janelle Marie’s "Lunar Harvest" MLI’s "Once Upon a Time" TW’s "Noah’s Ark Sampler" Stamped hummingbird pillowcases Blackwork Chatelaine & Accessories

Response:

(snip) Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!!

Kathy, Who says the good don’t get rewarded! You deserve every spool.   Jane

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy

Kathy, Kathy! Me too! There must be something in the air! (Erm… hang on, your air is not the same as my air…) Our printer died last month. We were really depressed, because it meant that DH couldn’t print out his assignments here at home, but had to travel to the University to do it. And of course I couldn’t print out my XS patterns or anything either. Yesterday, DH met his brother at KMart and they went looking for birthday presents for their respective DDs. The red light special was announced, so DH *shot* to the clearance trolley (as is his wont: *no-one* has a nose for a bargain like my Hunn). There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

Response:

Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

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Question:

This is mutating the topic somewhat, but here goes: I like the "Trilene knot" quite a bit.  It retains much of the original line strength and is just as easy to tie as a regular clinch knot.  The name irritates me, however.  Can a line company truly lay claim to a knot?  Must we make an advertisement for somebody every time we teach someone this knot?  Is it known by any other name? Pete C

Response:

If you’d be satisfied with a guess, the name could have originated simply because it was a knot initially devised by a surgeon in a fishing club: "Hey, where’d you learn that knot?"   "It’s the surgeon’s knot."

I do hope that this isn’t the case! My researches would really go down the plug hole, were it so. The mind boggles at the possibilities: the ‘bond traders’ hitch for tying up your mule; the ‘gynaecologists twist’ for wire shock tippets; the ‘lawyers loop’ (not safe; too slippery!) ….. the possibilities are endless. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

<all the good stuff snipped (this is going to get confusing).

Funny thing about knots; while I’ve never had any trouble tying them, talking about them has always made my head spin.  Reading back through this thread I find myself getting a bit dizzy. TL!

Response:

Tony; After giving the matter some more thought I believe I can clear up how, if not when, the knot we use to tie on tippet became known as the "surgeon’s knot".

<rest snipped and neatly tied off with a surgeon’s knot… Your description is right Wolfgang.  As a Vascular and Thoracic surgeon, I think I can speak with some knowledge on such things  Basically, a surgeon’s knot is a reef knot, usually tied with one hand against the held-out strand of the other end of the ‘thread’.  The double-throw variant is also used for extra security when needed. By that, I mean TWICE round instead of once per layer as in the simple reef knot.   Usually, the reef knot is extended by several more ‘throws’ however – it is not common to use just the two throws, or layers.  Many surgical suture materials are monofilament and slippery, to aid in passing through tissues without cutting through, so they tend to slip when knotted, therefore most surgeons would tie at least 5 throws in these materials, with perhaps 3 in braided materials that slip less. There are obviously numerous variations also, such as deliberately tying a ‘granny’ knot – both throws in the same direction rather than opposite directions – so that the knot can be ’snugged’ down while still having some friction, then finishing off with a throw in the opposite direction to lock the knot. The "Surgeon’s Knot" as described in the fishing books is nothing like a ‘real’ surgeon’s knot.  I don’t know how it got its name. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

Response:

I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers. In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted. My difficulty is that the modern appellation of this knot as the ’surgeons knot’ seems to be relatively modern. Practising surgeons (non-anglers) stare at you blankly when you show them this knot. The great American authority on knots, the late Prof. Cyrus Lawrence Day, shows a completely different knot in his ‘The Art of Knotting and Splicing’. The surgeon’s knot Day shows looks more akin to a ‘reef knot’ (’square knot’), except that there are two turns of the strands on the top and bottom edges of the knot (when viewed as normally tied). At present, I am inclined to think that ’surgeon’s knot’ (for what the term is currently, popularly, understood to mean) is a relatively modern appropriation (misappropriation) of the name. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ordinarily, a square knot is tied by making an overhand knot and then following it with another, making sure that the second is opposed to the first; left over right and then right over left (repeating left over right or right over left twice will result in a granny knot, notorious for slipping).  In making sutures, the suture material is wound once or twice around the needle holder which is then used to grasp the tag end and pull it through the loop.  When the material is wound twice around the needle holder the result is still an overhand knot; the ends merely twist around each other twice rather than the usual once.  In order to finish the square knot a surgeon repeats the process being careful to wind the material in the opposite direction from the first time.

Very interesting Wolfgang. What you have described is exactly the ’surgeon’s knot’, as described by Cyrus Day, as I cited in my original post. That’s good for me, because it supports the current use of the name for that particular knot (i.e., a ’square knot’ with two twists along each edge). Your earlier post, re. the ‘water knot’ you have used in climbing and the method of its construction is exactly that described by Day in his book. I suspect that the single overhand ‘water knot’ was adequate as an angler’s knot in the days of horsehair. The two, three and four turn versions were clearly developed to produce a safe knot when using the slippery synthetic line materials that came along later. Going back to the ’surgeon’s knot’, you mentioned the ‘granny knot’ as being unsafe cf. the ’square knot’ (which in Britain we more usually call the ‘reef knot’). In the 1991 edition of ‘Practical Fishing Knots’, by Sosin and Kreh, the authors describe what they call the ’simple blood knot’. This is nothing like a normal ‘blood knot’, but is slightly similar to the real ’surgeons knot’ as you described (this is going to get confusing). The big difference is that it is in fact a ‘granny knot’, but with seven twists along the two parallel edges of the box. It looks odd, but Sosin and Kreh claim nearly 100% knot efficiency for it. Thanks for the posts: interesting, but doesn’t really get me closer to tracking down when the two turn ‘water knot’ started being called the ’surgeons knot’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers.

If you’d be satisfied with a guess, the name could have originated simply because it was a knot initially devised by a surgeon in a fishing club: "Hey, where’d you learn that knot?"   "It’s the surgeon’s knot."   Even in that context, it could still have origins in medical usage while not necessarily keeping its surgical configuration.   If you get a real answer, please share it. Joe F.

Response:

Hi Tony :   The Surgeon’s knot is the ones described by the other people in their replies, as a double and then a stacked set of two single throws that is used to close an incision. The knot that we use to tie on leaders etc. that we call a surgeon’s knot is also used to join Rib Stitch cord that is used to hold the cloth covering onto an airplane wing when the stitcher has misjudged the length and needs a bit more to finish the rib correctly.   Just thought that you might find it of interest.    Jim Rahn    Guelph, Ontario,    Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers. In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted. My difficulty is that the modern appellation of this knot as the ’surgeons knot’ seems to be relatively modern. Practising surgeons (non-anglers) stare at you blankly when you show them this knot. The great American authority on knots, the late Prof. Cyrus Lawrence Day, shows a completely different knot in his ‘The Art of Knotting and Splicing’. The surgeon’s knot Day shows looks more akin to a ‘reef knot’ (’square knot’), except that there are two turns of the strands on the top and bottom edges of the knot (when viewed as normally tied). At present, I am inclined to think that ’surgeon’s knot’ (for what the term is currently, popularly, understood to mean) is a relatively modern appropriation (misappropriation) of the name. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony; After giving the matter some more thought I believe I can clear up how, if not when, the knot we use to tie on tippet became known as the "surgeon’s knot". In addition to climbing rock and replacing more tippet than I care to think about, I have also done some surgical procedures on rats, and a great deal of woodworking. As a result of the woodworking I have had sutures put into every one of my fingers at one time or another. Having watched the procedure so often I know that the knots surgeons use are the same as the ones I use on rats; they are in fact simple square knots.  A square knot is, or course, simply two stacked overhand knots.  Ordinarily, a square knot is tied by making an overhand knot and then following it with another, making sure that the second is opposed to the first; left over right and then right over left (repeating left over right or right over left twice will result in a granny knot, notorious for slipping).  In making sutures, the suture material is wound once or twice around the needle holder which is then used to grasp the tag end and pull it through the loop.  When the material is wound twice around the needle holder the result is still an overhand knot; the ends merely twist around each other twice rather than the usual once.  In order to finish the square knot a surgeon repeats the process being careful to wind the material in the opposite direction from the first time. When two (or possibly even more) turns are taken around the needle holder before drawing tight it is exactly the same procedure as we perform in tying on tippet material.  The only real difference is that the surgeon performs this procedure on a single strand as opposed to the two that we use in making the "surgeon’s knot."  A casual observer would easily be fooled into thinking that the fisherman and the surgeon are doing exactly the same thing.  The error is almost certainly compounded by the fact that many of us use a hemostat to help tie our knot in the stream.  Not only is the process the same, we even use the same (to the untrained eye) tool. Sound plausible?

Response:

Wolfgang, Your description of how to tie the knot during surgery is correct. The surgeon’s knot is a knot that uses a self-retaining frictional hitch for the first throw. The two wraps in the first throw create more friction between the strands so that tissue layers that want to pull apart are held in apposition while the second throw is placed. A variant on this theme is to do three wraps on the first throw if there is a lot of tension between the tissue edges. However, the subsequent wrap is then two throws instead of one so the knot will not be too assymetric (which creates problems with knot security). The surgeon’s knot is only used when there is sufficient tension to pull the edges you are trying to appose apart while you are doing the second throw, otherwise suturing is done with a square knot (there are some caveats to this generality). I suspect that the flyfishing surgeon’s knot was given that name because it visually resembles the surgeon’s knot used for suturing (even though its structure is totally different). My guess is that it was named by someone with some familiarity with it in the medical context. However, I would be surprised if it was a surgeon since it is a different knot and surgeons are somewhat picky about naming knots and suture patterns. Cheers. Jon McAnulty

Response:

<snip In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted.

<snip I’m not sure I can help you on this one Tony; in fact, I may muddy the waters a bit more.  I’ve done a bit of rock climbing over the years and used what climbers refer to as a water knot to form loops in webbing or to join two pieces of webbing together (webbing is tubular woven nylon which has been pressed flat).  The climber’s water knot starts with a simple overhand knot tied near the end of a piece of webbing.  To make a loop, the other end is pushed back through the overhand knot following (in reverse) the path of the original end. Tying two pieces of webbing together is done in exactly the same fashion.  The only difference is that one uses the ends of two pieces rather than both ends of one piece.  The effect is essentially the same as the fisherman’s ’surgeon’s knot’ except that there is only one turn as opposed to the three or four used in the surgeon’s knot.  So, at bottom, the only real difference between the two knots is the number of turns taken, unless one thinks that the method of tying is significant.  The water knot used by climbers is the same as the surgeon’s knot used by fishermen.  Of course, I don’t know whether the climber’s water knot is the same as the one you made reference to. Hope this helps. TL.

Response:

Question:

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

Response:

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

Sam, Contact: Bruce Harang, Great Southern Appalachial guide. Voice:704-236-1319 Fax: 704-236-1338 Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

Sam, What type of fishing are you planning? NC has trout in the mountains, bass, panfish, etc. in the piedmont and lowlands, and all types of saltwater species on the coast. I’d suggest finding a local fly shop and going from there. There are plenty of waters to fish and I’d hazard a guess that there are some close to you. Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Sam, Make sure you check out my website.  It has tons of info on there.  I think you can find a fishing hole or two or three.  Where are you located?

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam — Flyfish NC                                                   Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com                                                                  

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Question:

spam magnet B D Hatten wrote with lots of heart, almost a whine: heart felt and male bonding "I love you MAN! can  have your BUD,"shit snipped There is a key on your keyboard usually called "DELETE". You did get one with your computer? Whiners on my screen usually get this key. Saves lots of energy and frustration following circular threads. Who said anything about liking ya? Tolerate maybe! Speaking of Kisses! February 14, Yes, the perfume and pubic hair hatch! I’ll be buried in about to my ears! ‘Hafta try my new goretex wader on. Yes, it would be nice to seem some newer bugs that the ones I’m use to seeing in my own. Hope their not ugly, the wild ones just love those pretty ones. Bug address went on the side. Hairy Trout One happy camper shaving his palms tonight!

Response:

Right the Rod company has moved, however Press Powell has a Fly Fishing Shop in Chico where the old rod company was. I was there over Thanksgiving and chatted with Press for a couple of days as he was putting things back together from moving the shop. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really don’t think he’s is gone. That bird of his needed to stretch her wings and test her new belly. He is probably in Chico with Powell doing the Bastard thing. I don’t think Powell Rods is in Chico anymore….Bill Kiene..you would know this…where is Powell Rods now?….Greg H. Sacramento. They still make good rods. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip point.  "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"                                   Bruce Douglas Hatten The phrase is, "An harm ye none, do what ye will." The quote is DIRECTLY from Aleister Crowley’s "DIARY of a DRUG FIEND" Pub. 1970 by Samuel Weiser, Inc. I will spare you the lashing your ignorance deserves-  Thanx fer yer idiotic post.  Now go hold the wrong book and wonder why.                  "Listening fer an echo and hearing only silence"                                                             Bruce

Gentlemen, may I suggest you check where Croweley plagiarized that phrase.

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And so it goes, that one must endure the ‘pulp’- to get at the seeds. I am relatively new here.  I’ve  had my run ins w/ Mr. G.  and I got over it.  And he got over it.  If you can’t get over it-  you need to get a life and NOT READ ON. (Thanks) This is my plan-  YOU BASTARDS are gonna do the right thing. Yer gonna hit this thread and yer gonna say "come back where you belong G.  We miss you". …We miss spitting yer way,  we miss throwing rocks at you.  We miss your stupid drivelings about yer overbloated, over hyped, over rated product line,  and we miss turning off the computer w/ contempt for your capitalist PIG tendencies,  but most of all-  we miss the many and multi faceted jewels you unselfishly share w/ us. I don’t care who you are, or how cool you think you are and think he isn’t;  (or for that matter,  what you think you think of me.)  George belongs here.  That is the plain truth.  Put me on your kill list if you disagree-  I don’t give a shit.  But I will say you are making a huge mistake.  And that,  of course is your right. (even if its wrong) ROFF  is for everyone who shares of themself in a meaningful way- I believe that is its purpose, its value, and  its very pivot and point.  "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" That does NOT mean I embrace shotgun spamming- and/ or random useless postings.  But clearly-  G  does not do that.  He is here w/ more intent than "just"  any one thing. He is good for us.  We are good for him.  Let us all benefit in kind. (Besides who ever that Aaron person attempting to mimic him is making me sick.) You add to this thread- and I will copy and paste every damn word of it into e-mails that I will send him personally.  Daily.  Maybe 20 times daily.  You all know how important this, is do the right thing. I thank you for your cooperation-  and your intent.             Doldrums nourish no bees,-  produce no honey.                                    Bruce Douglas Hatten Post:  you write stupid moronic bullshit in MY  thread and we will have a serious problem.  Lets not ok?  Just pass me by- please… Thanks fer that;  really.

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<snip ROFF  is for everyone who shares of themself in a meaningful way- I believe that is its purpose, its value, and  its very pivot and point.  "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"                                   Bruce Douglas Hatten

Just one thing Bruce, If you are going to qoute part of my religion please get it right. The phrase is, "An harm ye none, do what ye will."

Response:

You add to this thread- and I will copy and paste every damn word of it into e-mails that I will send him personally.  Daily.  Maybe 20 times daily.  You all know how important this, is do the right thing.

How’s this: Stay the fuck out! Find another forum for your fanclub. May I suggest the following: alt.fan.george-gherke alt.i.have.shit.for.brains.but.i.like.to.post.alot alt.netiquette.doesnt.apply.to.me.coz.i.invented.the.wheel alt.alzheimer.erotica alt.i.spam.therefore.i.am alt.hoax.bamboo.bastard — Christian Figenschou – http://figen.com

Response:

I obviously missed somthing, what happened with George? Tim Apple " Always one step closer to going Postal! "

Response:

I obviously missed somthing, what happened with George?

He t-boned the gtoup for a while. — Charlie…

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<snip ROFF  is for everyone who shares of themself in a meaningful way- I believe that is its purpose, its value, and  its very pivot and point.  "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"                                   Bruce Douglas Hatten Just one thing Bruce, If you are going to qoute part of my religion please get it right. The phrase is, "An harm ye none, do what ye will."

I had no intent towards YOU or your maligned religion pal- The quote is DIRECTLY from Aleister Crowley’s "DIARY of a DRUG FIEND" Pub. 1970 by Samuel Weiser, Inc. I will spare you the lashing your ignorance deserves-  Thanx fer yer idiotic post.  Now go hold the wrong book and wonder why.                  "Listening fer an echo and hearing only silence"                                                             Bruce

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You add to this thread- and I will copy and paste every damn word of it into e-mails that I will send him personally.  Daily.  Maybe 20 times daily.  You all know how important this, is do the right thing. How’s this: Stay the fuck out! Find another forum for your fanclub. May I suggest the following: alt.fan.george-gherke alt.i.have.shit.for.brains.but.i.like.to.post.alot alt.netiquette.doesnt.apply.to.me.coz.i.invented.the.wheel alt.alzheimer.erotica alt.i.spam.therefore.i.am alt.hoax.bamboo.bastard — Christian Figenschou – http://figen.com

Another clever boy-  I’m impressed.  And you have posted what of any significance lately?  I am not a fan bud, but you know  I’m bright enough to see…  You have reading problems aside from the obvious lack of understandings?   enjoy the darkness friend-

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I really don’t think he’s is gone. That bird of his needed to stretch her wings and test her new belly. He is probably in Chico with Powell doing the Bastard thing. — Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

I obviously missed somthing, what happened with George? He t-boned the gtoup for a while. — Charlie…

at the rate that BD Hatten is going it won’t be long before he might be the new t-bone. I’ll watch from a distance. — Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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<< ROFF  is for everyone who shares of themself in a meaningful way- I believe that is its purpose, its value, and  its very pivot and point.  "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"                                   Bruce Douglas Hatten Just one thing Bruce, If you are going to qoute part of my religion please get it right. The phrase is, "An harm ye none, do what ye will."

I had no intent towards YOU or your maligned religion pal- The quote is DIRECTLY from Aleister Crowley’s "DIARY of a DRUG FIEND" Pub. 1970 by Samuel Weiser, Inc. I will spare you the lashing your ignorance deserves-  Thanx fer yer idiotic post.  Now go hold the wrong book and wonder why.                  "Listening fer an echo and hearing only silence"                                                             Bruce Bruce, that was priceless.  LOL.   DUH!   Dave LaCourse

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I obviously missed somthing, what happened with George?

He t-boned the gtoup for a while. LOL.  And yet another phrase is born.  Thanks Charlie. Dave LaCourse

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Come on back! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really don’t think he’s is gone. That bird of his needed to stretch her wings and test her new belly. He is probably in Chico with Powell doing the Bastard thing. — Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net

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I really don’t think he’s is gone. That bird of his needed to stretch her wings and test her new belly. He is probably in Chico with Powell doing the Bastard thing.

I don’t think Powell Rods is in Chico anymore….Bill Kiene..you would know this…where is Powell Rods now?….Greg H.

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I really don’t think he’s is gone. That bird of his needed to stretch her wings and test her new belly. He is probably in Chico with Powell doing the Bastard thing. I don’t think Powell Rods is in Chico anymore….Bill Kiene..you would know this…where is Powell Rods now?….Greg H.

Sacramento. They still make good rods. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Now excuse me whilst I fetch another Ol’ Mill.                         Yer Bud (I’ll tie flies fer you free anyday)                                        Bruce

You have got to do something about your image here. Might be the beer? Yes possible so. You’ve got to stop buying any brew that comes in 12’s or 24’s. I know, being a tyier that kind of habit is hard to break. Work on it, and find something that tastes kind of bitter at first, and then continue until the taste kind of grows on you. Then you start experimenting of other beers. Who knows? Even someone might even offer you some of that Famous Grouse. You’re welcome. If you are man of your word like MR.G I’ll take 2 dozen Yellow Stimulators size 12. I’m paying real close attention on this Bastard thing ’cause G’s building the 7 1/2 footers first and I’m right up there near the beginning of the line. I got to name that line, "HAPPY HOOKER," just what every good Bastard needs. What the hell is a SPAM MAGGOT? Some kind of Alaska Grizzly bear actractor?:^)Yes ugly as hell, my dog won’t even get near me. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Come on back! Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net

You get a gold fucking star and a big fat "THANK YOU!"  from me bud. No bullsit.  If you werent so dawg ass ugly I’d kiss ya smack on the mouth.   Snap man, G is a resource people-  only ugly fucking americans piss away their resources so blindly… Now excuse me whilst I fetch another Ol’ Mill.                         Yer Bud (I’ll tie flies fer you free anyday)                                        Bruce  

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Now excuse me whilst I fetch another Ol’ Mill.                         Yer Bud (I’ll tie flies fer you free anyday)                                        Bruce You have got to do something about your image here.

Image is nada to me-  I could giva shit. Might be the beer?

Count on it. (And the unexpected, occasionally no doubt.) Yes possible so. You’ve got to stop buying any brew that comes in 12’s or 24’s.

4 4 packs to just get rolling. I know, being a tyier that kind of habit is hard to break. Work on it, and find something that tastes kind of bitter at first, and then continue until the taste kind of grows on you. Then you start experimenting of other beers. Who knows? Even someone might even offer you some of that Famous Grouse. You’re welcome.

Old Mill/mud aint exactly sweet-  if I were a rich man I’d suck the Grouses down like there’s no tomorrow..  thanks fer the sip bro- I needed that. If you are man of your word like MR.G I’ll take 2 dozen Yellow Stimulators size 12.

(I likes the blue ones a lots better.  heh heh  ie Val. I am I am…) E-mail me an address.  I build bugs.  You sure you want Stimulators? I can do better than that.  No jive-  send a po box # er what ever… I’m paying real close attention on this Bastard thing ’cause G’s building the 7 1/2 footers first and I’m right up there near the beginning of the line. I got to name that line, "HAPPY HOOKER," just what every good Bastard needs.

Indeed.   You speak the truth.  You have my vote Doug. What the hell is a SPAM MAGGOT? Some kind of Alaska Grizzly bear actractor?:^)Yes ugly as hell, my dog won’t even get near me.

Spam Maggots are us-  Just send an e-mail and you’ll see!  arf arf. Funny you say that-  I have a huge Pink Floyd poster over my tying desk and upon it is inscribed (by yers truly of  course)  "Flies are Us-  {don’t mind the maggots}"   A sick ref to the Rolling Stones. This header was obviously a bad idea.  I feel sorry fer that.  G is a good man.  G has treated myself w/ dignity and undertsanding-  even where either of us might have been at  fault.  He ought (yes in strict Kantian style) to be appreciated for who he is.  Not what mind you, but who.   I could go on and on about sissy fucking whiners-  People who post pure shit and people who post nothing a’tall.  I am vocal.  I say considerably too much more often than not.  I guess G’s the same  in a lot of ways.  But his intent is what counts.  I wish him only perfection on the rod line-  as that is not just what he seeks, but what he deserves.   I have goods to sell also and my approach is utterly different-  (not better,  not worse)  but he and I are the same too-  in that we want our patron’s expectations to be realized. You aint gotta love the maker fer his product.  You gotta love the product.  The ‘maker’ is just another one of us…                               Brain Salad Surgery Making Itself Clear,                                                        Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug Knight                           metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Question:

I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

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I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit). Charlies work great (best colors for me have been chartreuse or tan). Clouser minnows have been hot in BZ (at least in Placencia where I go) past couple of years. Sizes 2 and 4 are good; sparsely tied (I had one that was sparse to begin with, and got better after a lizardfish chewed off 2/3 of the bucktail). Chartreuse is best (with a white belly of course), and tan, brown and olive worked for me too. I’m told Clousers are good for permit too (larger, sizes 1 or 2) but as I say I haven’t tried. I’ve used the Bonefish Special for real shallow water or over grass with success, but I want to try the snapping shrimp pattern that Bill mentioned. Got to get tying! Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit).

Hi Eric, We use real small tan Raghead crabs that where develope by Jan Isley in Ascencion Bay for permit. They are about the size of a dime. We catch small permit (3 to 6#) on them too. We use them in larger sizesfor larger permit and in olive/green too.  I also have been fishing Placencia and really love the area. If you get a chance tell me more about your adventures in that area. Who are you fishing with?  I have some chartreuse snapping shrimp called ‘Yucatan Specials’, but have not tried them. Thanks for you info. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing in. What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please include size and color recommendations. Thanks in advance. Dan —  Intel, Corp.  5000 W. Chandler Blvd.  Chandler, AZ  85226

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: What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a : floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or : brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface : fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing : in. : : What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please : include size and color recommendations. If you use a search engine and type "Fly Fishing in Arizona" it should lead you to the home page which is updated (either weekly or monthly) with the latest info on all parts of Arizona. It gives water levels, current conditions, fly patterns, tips for the week, and lots more…great resource.   Good luck and post a trip report. **   Mark Olson           # "In any audience, twenty percent  ** **   Las Vegas Academy    #  minds drift and sixty percent    ** **   Brooks Alumni        #  are actively engaged in sexual   ** **   Class of ‘88         #  fantasies."                      ** **   Member PIEA          #            —Gov. Pete Wilson    **

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Question:

Can anyone tell me about the quality of fly fishing in Arkansas the second week of Oct.?   Where to go and stay with a spouse that would like to do things other than fish? Thanks for your help.    

Response:

Check out Gaston’s White River Resort in Lakeview.  It’s just below the Bull Shoals Dam.  Jim Gaston Has a homepage on the WEB & a lot of stuff upoloaded to the fishing libraries of CompuServe.

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I don’t want to sound like some spam spewing gimp, but my wife and I stayed at Gaston’s Resort in Northern Ark. on the White River just below Bull Shoals Dam and had a terrific time. The Cabins are clean and well stocked with fire wood (daily), A beautiful view of the river is available from the cushioned window seats in the cabin. And in less than twenty minutes you can be standing in Brown Trout Heaven (w/ a few Rainbows in the mix) in the C/R area just below Bull Shoals Dam. I just hope their not running water when you’re there. You can reach them by dialing: (501)431-5202 My last trip there was Jan 2nd-5th of this year. No water out of the dam, Browns stacked up in spawning beds, and of course very few fishermen. I ran an egg sucking leech through the rapids and regularly hooked into 20+" fish that weren’t quick to the net. I suspect if the weather gets and stays cool early this year, the spawn will probably be starting just as you arrive. Tight Lines, J&J Sandone

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Question:

writes: Hi Jerome,  Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

I second that. I just received a complimentary copy and am favorably impressed. Not glossy. Published by Bob Auger (Dupuy’s). I was surprised to see an article by our roff/rofft friend and frequent poster Al Beatty. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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The mailing address is  P.O. Box 40429, San Francisco, CA  94105. You can pick one up at most SF fly shops, though they often sell out.

Response:

I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great

-SNIP- Hi Jerome, You can get a subscription to the California Fly Fisher which is a large format magazine (about the size of Computer Currents with glossy cover and newsprint interior)  about fishing in California.  Lots of good info. It’s published by Rich Anderson, but I don’t have his address handy.  It’s a monthly publication and you can pick up a copy at the Orvis store in SF or any of the fly shops in town.  Subscrciption information is always found inside.                          Good Fishing,                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Hi Jerome,   Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

Also "California Fly Fisher" Don Burns

Response:

Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.  

Hi Jerome,    Pick up a copy of California Flyfisher at your local flyshop or call (415) 284-0313 and order one. You’ll probably subscribe. Not a very wizzy rag but from time to time flyfishing needs a bit more unwizzyness. -Ralph —

Response:

Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states. Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/That’s odd.  I,m about as far east in the US as you can get, and think

all the major mags spend too much time on western rivers!! Maybe they do have amiddle ground perspective if we both think they are slanted.   I subscribe to all the majors, but my favorite (and most useful) National Mag is Fly Fisherman, but it maybe because they have an eastern slant, but I have issues where the only eastern reference is the postmark!  There are several western mags, and I’m sure one of the left coast regulars can provide you with the details. jg

Response:

I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

Response:

Question:

This should be another good year for the American Shad.  They migrate up the rivers in the spring, along with the Stripers,  to spawn.  They were imported from the east coast in the late 1800’s, along with the Striped Bass.  Both species really took off and became major fisheries in the North West.  The Sacramento river and it tributaries, the American, Feather and Yuba rivers, have good runs if they have adequate water flows.  The mouth of the American river and the mouth of the Feather river are good early( April/May ) spots ( from a boat )for shad and stripers. As the season progresses ( May/June ), they move up the rivers, were you can wade and fly fish for them quite successfully.  They hold in tight schools like salmon, and average 2 to 3 pounds with tops around  7 pounds. If you want to do something new and exciting,  I recommend getting a guide with a boat and go have a ball.  Try these year-round, full-time, independent guides: 916/331-2001. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

How about the Sacramento or Klamath for Shad? What time of year would you recommend? Thanks

Response:

How about the Sacramento or Klamath for Shad? What time of year would you recommend? Thanks

   The Sacramento drainage will start to kick in in a few weeks. Look for the article on Sacramento shad in the upcoming issue of Flyfishing the West magazine. Start calling Keine’s Fly shop or Fly Fishing Specialties in a couple of weeks, they’re usually on top of whats going on in the valley.    Ralph —

Response:

If you want to do something new and exciting,  I recommend getting a guide with a boat and go have a ball.  Try these year-round, full-time, independent guides: @ 916/331-2001.

I can personally recommend Bob Sparre.  He runs the Yuba mostly, and knows it well.  Offers raft trips for 4-6 fishermen.  Raft is for access only. Shad fishing is wading gravel bars.  Price is reasonable, about $80 a head for a full day I think.   John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This should be another good year for the American Shad.  They migrate up the rivers in the spring, along with the Stripers,  to spawn.  They were imported from the east coast in the late 1800’s, along with the Striped Bass.  Both species really took off and became major fisheries in the North West.  The Sacramento river and it tributaries, the American, Feather and Yuba rivers, have good runs if they have adequate water flows.  The mouth of the American river and the mouth of the Feather river are good early( April/May ) spots ( from a boat )for shad and stripers. As the season progresses ( May/June ), they move up the rivers, were you can wade and fly fish for them quite successfully.  They hold in tight schools like salmon, and average 2 to 3 pounds with tops around  7 pounds. If you want to do something new and exciting,  I recommend getting a guide with a boat and go have a ball.  Try these year-round, full-time, independent guides: 916/331-2001. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

   You might also check out the article "California Shad" in the newest issue of Flyfishing the West magazine (I think it’ll be on the shelves within a week).    -Ralph —

Response:

Question:

1st week of June can be tough. Around Ennis you can hit the Madison, (but it will, probably be roiled from run-off) the Ruby and the Big Hole (it’s a haul from  Ennis but generally always fishable). Big Hole is best fished while floating. Or, you can go into the park and fish the Firehole and the Gibbons. Prince nymphs in the morning and Mothers Day Caddis in the afternoon. Best fishing is from 3pm to dark. Tight Lines! pdp

Response:

A friend and I are planning a week of flyfishing in Montana June 3 – June 10.   I know it’s not the best time but you takes what you can get.  We do not have any specific itinerary but were planning to spend some time around Ennis, and some around two rivers. Anybody have any specific recommendations for that time?  Any specific flies?   I have heard that San Juan worms are a must if the water is up. Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestions. Bill Feinberg

Response: