Question:

attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

how the hell did wayno get on to yer machine bd? waldo

Response:

attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt

Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

Response:

Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

And Big Dale being the consumate Southern Gentleman that he is will be sure Marie does not lack in frozen alcoholic concoctions with paper umbrellas and all manor of Cajun inspired culinary contrivances. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance.

Just me and the dates you suggest, I will be there. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.)

I would love both fresh and salt water, but I have not salt water gear….ummm honey, Richard wants to talk with you…Would it be possible to rent salt water fly equipment or would my 7 weight and old Pflueger work OK? I could get the maid to rinse it out each night for me. 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with).

My closest airport is Portland, Oregon PDX… 4.  Contact information.

If I die, send my ashes to my current spouse of 26 years at: (360) 944-7601 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.

A dirt cheap hotel/motel would be great, but not rented by the hour if you know what I mean… As to where we all go, I think you should decide, Oh Clavemaster.  Besides I don’t speak the local language anyway, I will need an interpretor.  How do you say "No Budweiser, por favor" in the local tongue. I would love a budget suggestion for motel, car rental (do I need one?), licenses, equipment rental (if applicable), stuff like that… Chris Fanning

Response:

The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast My suggestions for the name: Mardi Clave Clavi gra

The Fat Clave?  Er, is that in Kilobrandos?  <G  I suspect some atttendees might not like that…. Clave Slogan: "Show us your tips!"

Now that is good!  I like it…. Clave Mission Statement: "Sure, we could have chosen any number of world-renowned fly fishing venues, but getting smashed in the Quarter is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Or I could just rewrite "Tubthumper"… "We’ll be drinkin’ And some fishin’ But mainly drinkin’ We’ll fall down, but we’ll get up again, Ain’t no one gonna keep us down…" Wayne Harrison has kindy offered to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," This does not suprise me.

It so unnerved me I said yes…<G.  Seriously, as I had no experience and limited time, his help is appreciated.  Plus, it gives me a scapegoat…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Steve    2025

Response:

Richard, Upon reflection, sadly, thar ain’t no way in hades that I can attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As it appears this is developing into a shore ’nuff clave, here are some further details.  I will be gathering further info, such as specifics on hotels, fishing and general info websites, etc. this week and will keep y’all informed. The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast but suggestions are welcome…<G. The dates will be from basically Dec. 1, 2000 until December 8, 2000. The locations will be New Orleans, LA and Biloxi/Gulfport, MS.  Wayne Harrison has kindy offred to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," and we are asking all interest parties who have not yet done so to email me with the following infomation: 1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.) 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with). 4.  Contact information. 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.  Those wishing to camp on our land may do so, but there will likely be no plumbed water or electric hookups – more on this later – if you wish to camp, PLEASE let me know ASAP.  Of course, there are many public campgrounds available, and if we have campers interested and need help here, let me know.  Also, if you have budgetary concerns, let me know, and I’ll keep that in mind with recommendations. I had originally thought about half the time in the NO area, and half on the MS coast, with a possible side trip to AL, but the distances are such that it is possible for one to stay in either location and participate (about 1.5 hr. from NO to Gulf Coast) in many of the activities. There are several charter airline companies that offer discount packages to the MS Coast, and several casinos offer them as well, with the Grand Biloxi – Grand Gulfport and Beau Rivage likely offering the most.  I will have more info on this as well. Another welcome addition is the participation of the Mississippi Coast Fly Fishers.  I have talked to their President, and we will work together to plan at least some group activities.  This would allow a larger circle of potential new friends, and attendees to have access to local guides and boats. These are the people I am aware of currently expressing an interest.  If you are interested and missing, or added in error, please email me. Walt Winter Wayne Harrison Jeff Miller Tom Brown John Lever (LEEver) Charlie Choc Chris Fanning Frank Reid ? Big Dale ? Those with question marks have expressed an interest via post, but I have not received an email.  Please let me know… TC, R

– Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast

My suggestions for the name: Mardi Clave Clavi gra Clave Slogan: "Show us your rods!!" or "Show us your tips!" Clave Mission Statement: "Sure, we could have chosen any number of world-renowned fly fishing venues, but getting smashed in the Quarter is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity." Wayne Harrison has kindy offered to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister,"

This does not suprise me. –Steve    2025

Response:

As it appears this is developing into a shore ’nuff clave, here are some further details.  I will be gathering further info, such as specifics on hotels, fishing and general info websites, etc. this week and will keep y’all informed. The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast but suggestions are welcome…<G. The dates will be from basically Dec. 1, 2000 until December 8, 2000. The locations will be New Orleans, LA and Biloxi/Gulfport, MS.  Wayne Harrison has kindy offred to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," and we are asking all interest parties who have not yet done so to email me with the following infomation: 1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.) 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with). 4.  Contact information. 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.  Those wishing to camp on our land may do so, but there will likely be no plumbed water or electric hookups – more on this later – if you wish to camp, PLEASE let me know ASAP.  Of course, there are many public campgrounds available, and if we have campers interested and need help here, let me know.  Also, if you have budgetary concerns, let me know, and I’ll keep that in mind with recommendations. I had originally thought about half the time in the NO area, and half on the MS coast, with a possible side trip to AL, but the distances are such that it is possible for one to stay in either location and participate (about 1.5 hr. from NO to Gulf Coast) in many of the activities. There are several charter airline companies that offer discount packages to the MS Coast, and several casinos offer them as well, with the Grand Biloxi – Grand Gulfport and Beau Rivage likely offering the most.  I will have more info on this as well. Another welcome addition is the participation of the Mississippi Coast Fly Fishers.  I have talked to their President, and we will work together to plan at least some group activities.  This would allow a larger circle of potential new friends, and attendees to have access to local guides and boats. These are the people I am aware of currently expressing an interest.  If you are interested and missing, or added in error, please email me. Walt Winter Wayne Harrison Jeff Miller Tom Brown John Lever (LEEver) Charlie Choc Chris Fanning Frank Reid ? Big Dale ? Those with question marks have expressed an interest via post, but I have not received an email.  Please let me know… TC, R

Response:

Question:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Simms Guide model breathables. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders?

The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. If money is not an object, breathables Simms Guide Gortex, LL Bean Gortex or the new tough Orvis ones are supposed to be good. I have had the simms for four seasons now. Not a leak yet, very comfortable in the summer but they were and are pricey. If I wear my breathables over fleece pants, I have yet to have a "cold" problem steelheading. I never plan on wearing my neoprenes again. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I too am in the process of "gearing up".  After speaking with several individuals, an Orvis salesperson, a BassPro rep, and looking through a plethora of magazines and books, I have concluded the following: 1.    Not all waders are created equal. 2.    If you buy a $10 pair of waders, expect a $10 pair of waders. 3.    NO 2 fly fisherman (or sales people) will answer the same question         with the same (or nearly the same) answer. 4.    Waders are a personal choice based on the following:         A.    Area to be fished (ie; hiking 10miles in 6mm neoprene is                 not the most pleasant experience.)         B.    Seasons fished (15 degrees in 45 degree water is no fun                 in lightweight breathables.)         C.    Price range:  Buy the best you can afford while keeping in                 mind what you are going to use them for. Basically, unless you are comparing two specific products, there are no definitive answers.  Think:  Need, Desire, Use, Price.  When in doubt, take along a fly fisherman you trust and have him/her answer the necessary questions on your behalf. Casting is free therapy!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

Basically, ditto. Breathables are not only the most comfortable thing I’ve worn in the water (besides an occasional big grin) they are absolutely fantastic for travel. They dry overnight and take almost no space at all when they go back into your suitcase for the morning flight. But if you’re only going to fish a couple of times a year, you have to decide whether they are worth the expense. I like Simms. Ken Ft. Lupton, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders? The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

Seems like there are a lot of good vendors out there.  I’ve got some LL Bean waist-high breathable waders which I find fantastically comfortable (I fish a lot of small, freestone streams) and have been very durable.  Waist high works much better than hippers (which invariable are 2" too short) and are much more comfortable in hot weather than chest waders.  I almost never miss the extra height of a chest wader (if it’s that deep, you should be fishing in it, not walking in it). I also have a pair of Orvis Chest High breathable waders, which I would give a miss.  The fabric simply isn’t puncture resistant enough. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G. Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

_______   yep. —

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

Response:

I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter

I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

Andrew Nice site and pix.  Actually this is a great idea as we all like to talk about our trips and stuff.  Building a simple site combines the pix with the text for a better story.   Looks like some of us (me) will have to brush up on our HTML skills. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

Response:

: : Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for : size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ Andrew, please let me know where you bought those pictures, I’d like to see if they’ll put together a "saltwater flats" trip for me…

Rite-Aid photo counter.  They have the plastic bushes, blow up fish, everything.  They even told me, "you don’t look like a good enough fisherman to use the big fish dummies, use these middlesized ones instead."   Didn’t even charge me more than the normal 6.95 a roll for the Pix.  Is it great living in the age of the service economy or what? — Andrew Brunette

Response:

Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.  

Hi Andrew, This reminded me of my first AK trip. I floated the Togiak River with Bus Bergman, Jim and Kitty Vincent (Rio Line Company) and my cousin in 1976. It was a wonderful trip and was the real AK experience. Float trips are great. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Great report Andrew … thanks for the post.

Response:

: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

Response:

Great report – thanks. Thomas Gilg

Response:

: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

Response:

Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.   After trying to locate the bush carrier that we were to use, we found out that we had a couple of hours to kill, so while waiting for Dave, we loaded up on the supplies that were too heavy to fly in from Seattle, notably Milwaukee

Question:

Well, I spent about 4 years there and I found a plain small bright neon green plastic worm drove the small mouths wild. — Eric From the Grand Canyon State. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

Response:

I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

Response:

Most of my fishing is done in the Adirondacks. I have a web site with lots of advice regarding lure selection. Check it out. Email me if you have any questions (remove the nospam in the address) Matthew Carter "Fishing with Matt" http://www.albany.net/~buzzbait/fishing/index.htm

Response:

Question:

Subj:  Upriver or Downriver casting? I’m a very beginner fly fisherman and I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to the best way to approach casting in a river. Should I start up stream and cast down stream or start down stream and cast up stream. I assume that if I start up stream and cast down stream that I would continue to work the river moving slowly down stream. Could someone please make this clear to me? Thank you very much in advance!!! TCC

Response:

Subj:  Upriver or Downriver casting? I’m a very beginner fly fisherman and I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to the best way to approach casting in a river. Should I start up stream and cast down stream or start down stream and cast up stream. I assume that if I start up stream and cast down stream that I would continue to work the river moving slowly down stream. Could someone please make this clear to me?

Both ways are very acceptible and mastering good drifts on all compass points is a rewarding challenge. My only advise is: 1) learn a stealthful approach, you can get closer usually from downstream, but you would be amazed at fish pointing downstream because the current has eddied. 2) cast a short, light, controlled line with as long a tippet as you can stand. Good fishing. TimW

Response:

With this thread, I am reminded of 2 things. 1) The Colonel 2) Sgt. York 1.  In "Streamers" by the late great Col. Joseph Bates.  He describes a     ‘fan’ approach to covering waters.  You cast a short line in a fanned     arc, increasing the line length with each pass to avoid spooking fish.     Same with an upstream cast.  Start short and only count on a good drift     the length of the leader + any curve or reach put into it.  Increase the     length of the cast each time. 2.  In Sgt. York, the deadeye would pick off the krauts in the back of the formation.     Like shooting turkeys, so that the ones in front would not become alarmed. Good fishing my friends. TimW

Response:

Todd- When casting to a sighted trout, cast towards a spot a couple feet to the left or right of the fish and a several feet above the fish.  Just before the fly hits the water, give your rod a slight jerk to the left if the fish is to the right, to the right if the fish is left.  This will keep your line off the fish and the fly in his feeding lane.

What do should you do when casting to a blind trout? Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Thank you everyone for your tremendous help! I coudn’t have done it without you all. This is a letter I cc’d to a bunch of you who e-mailed me so I’ll just post it in its entirety here on the board. I’ll be sure to try out your casting suggestions in the future. Thanks again! Thanks once again for your fishing advice! I got one! The trout was about a foot long so I was quite pleased. After trying to tackle a fast-moving section of the river (with no success), I decided to check on a quiet pool that I knew about upriver. The pool occurs at an elbow in the river where the river suddenly drops to about 15 feet deep. While the surface appears smooth, the water is actually moving at a nice pace through the curve. At the corner of the elbow, a small jut occurs where the water is totally calm. I noticed some swirling in the quiet spot just off the moving water and then a little blip at the surface which looked like it might have been a fish surfacing. As luck would have it, I made a very nice cast which landing softly in the middle of the pool. Just as the dry fly landed and sat on the surface the trout took it! It was very exciting since this is my first fish taken fly fishing. I decided to let him go. Maybe I’ll meet him again next year! Thanks for your help, it really did make a difference. TCC Todd Cranston-Cuebas

Response:

: When fishing upstream, always work upstream.  I always walk the bank of a : river to scope out an area I would like to fish, then drop into the river : below the area and fish upstream.  IMHO, if I spook fish from their holding : pattern, they move towards the center of the river or deeper, thus not : spooking fish above. A good way to see how fish react to the fisherman is to watch a friend stalk the fish while you sit on the bank.  I have seen fish run upstream this way smack into other fish. This gets them excited and makes them spooky. I have also learned that if the fish is left alone for a while, it may return to it’s origional location.  And then I have also fish do just what you described. Jon Porter

Response:

…The best bet is to be sneaky, and stalk the fish just as if you were hunting them.

I’ve always thought fly fishing was more like hunting than fishing. -AR

Response:

I’m a very beginner fly fisherman and I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to the best way to approach casting in a river. Should I start up stream and cast down stream or start down stream and cast up stream.

For total beginners: 1.  Don’t wade unless you must.  If so, 2.  First wade downstream, fishing across the current with a wet fly or nymph.  The water’s tension on the line will help you control it. 3.  Then wade upstream, with a dry (floating) fly, casting 45 degrees upstream.  When you see a fish rise, cast one yard above it, beginning a bit short to be on the safe side.   Don’t cast straight upstream, unless it is unavoidable;  you don’t want the fish to see your line, and it’s harder to keep control of the line the faster it drifts toward you. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Subj:  Upriver or Downriver casting? I’m a very beginner fly fisherman and I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to the best way to approach casting in a river. Should I start up stream and cast down stream or start down stream and cast up stream. I assume that if I start up stream and cast down stream that I would continue to work the river moving slowly down stream. Could someone please make this clear to me? Thank you very much in advance!!! TCC

I would think a new FF’er would have better luck with casting dry’s upstream (easier to get a proper drift) and wets cross or down stream. Once you get your confidence up then experimentation is the best part of the sport (IMHO). Steve

Response:

snip The only thing that still baffles me a bit about casting upstream is the thought of casting _above_ and _over_ the fish in lay. Would this scare a trout? I assume that I must cast above the fish and let the fly drift over it _without_ casting my line over its head. Are all of these assumptions correct?

Todd- When casting to a sighted trout, cast towards a spot a couple feet to the left or right of the fish and a several feet above the fish.  Just before the fly hits the water, give your rod a slight jerk to the left if the fish is to the right, to the right if the fish is left.  This will keep your line off the fish and the fly in his feeding lane. Also, if I decide to cast dry flies upstream, after I’ve fished out the area within reach, I should move to a new location downstream? Is this correct? My assumption is that any trout I might have scared would head away from me heading upstream thereby scaring fish away or making them hesitant in that direction. Do have this this right or am I thinking about this in the wrong way?

When fishing upstream, always work upstream.  I always walk the bank of a river to scope out an area I would like to fish, then drop into the river below the area and fish upstream.  IMHO, if I spook fish from their holding pattern, they move towards the center of the river or deeper, thus not spooking fish above. Bob Crossley — Bob Crossley

Response:

TimW Thank you for your reply. The only thing that still baffles me a bit about casting upstream is the thought of casting _above_ and _over_ the fish in lay. Would this scare a trout? I assume that I must cast above the fish and let the fly drift over it _without_ casting my line over its head. Are all of these assumptions correct? Also, if I decide to cast dry flies upstream, after I’ve fished out the area within reach, I should move to a new location downstream? Is this correct? My assumption is that any trout I might have scared would head away from me heading upstream thereby scaring fish away or making them hesitant in that direction. Do have this this right or am I thinking about this in the wrong way? Thanks! TCC Todd Cranston-Cuebas

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WOO HOO!  This can cause quite a few arguments!  :) : The only thing that still baffles me a bit about casting upstream is the : thought of casting _above_ and _over_ the fish in lay. Would this scare a : trout? I assume that I must cast above the fish and let the fly drift over : it _without_ casting my line over its head. Are all of these assumptions : correct? Yes. IF you line a trout (lay the line on top of it) it will gennerally spook and run away from you. The idea is to cast upstream at an angle so the the fly comes in from the side of the fish. The only part to drift over the fish would be the leader. This is the old "traditional" dry fly approach. By using this method, you are coming up on the fish from behind. They face upstream all the time because that is where the food comes from. : Also, if I decide to cast dry flies upstream, after I’ve fished out the : area within reach, I should move to a new location downstream? Is this : correct? My assumption is that any trout I might have scared would head : away from me heading upstream thereby scaring fish away or making them : hesitant in that direction. Do have this this right or am I thinking about : this in the wrong way? If the fish is spooked, it will usually run away from you. If you are fishing upstream, then the fish will run upstream, and vice-versa. And it’s movement could make the other fish that it runs past spooky. The real trouble with fishing downstream is that we tend to cause the water to cloud up when we walk in it. That may put the fish. So the old upstream approach remains popular.  But rules are made to be broken, and I have had some of my best fishing by casting downstream. The best bet is to be sneaky, and stalk the fish just as if you were hunting them. Jon Porter

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Question:

For that area, I would say that your 6 wt outfit will work just fine with the standard attractor patterns.  For some amazing action, go down the Skagit (west on WA 20- North Cascades Highway) past all the dams and shoot for the coho runs.  Steelhead State Park, off of WA 20, provides a good place to park and is right on the bank.  The Skagit has been recently designated a Wild and Scenic River, and it truly is.  With the steelhead, and the salmon, and the bald eagles looming on the trees over the banks, you ought to have a wonderful experience, provided that you’ve no leaks in your waders; the entire Skagit watershed from Ross and Diablo down to the sound is cold.   I just recently moved from Washington and have fished that area for years.  I hope you enjoy your trip.  Good fishing! BC

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For that area, I would say that your 6 wt outfit will work just fine with the standard attractor patterns.  For some amazing action, go down the Skagit (west on WA 20- North Cascades Highway) past all the dams and shoot for the coho runs.  Steelhead State Park, off of WA 20, provides a good place to park and is right on the bank.  The Skagit has

There are several places from which one migh fly fish- some off the highway.  Some off, eg., Sauk Store Road.  Call Skagit Anglers (360) 336-3232 in Mount Vernon or Priced Less Sporting Goods (360) 855-0895 in Sedro-Woolley for current regulation, access info.

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Greetings all:         I am taking a trip into the Pacific Northwest for business, and I will be taking a couple of days to hike in the region.  I will be at the Colonial Creek campground in North Cascades for two days, next to Diablo, and there is a lake supposedly full of trout.  Anyone have any suggestions for flies and rigging that works well there?  Also, I am currently using an 8.5 ft, 6wt rod and line combo.  Will this work well, or should I try to rent gear in Seattle that would be better suited?  Any suggestions about where to rent would also be helpful, since I may just go that route instead of risking my rod in an airplane.     Many thanks. Dan Johnson

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Question:

Hi, a friend of mine be in Bozeman, Montana next August and he’d like to buy a Fenwick fly rod. Can anyone let me know the nearest delear??? Thanks in advance for your help. Good Fishing, Paolo

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You can buy direct from fenwick..1800642 7637 or fax 714 891 9610. call em they’ll send you a catalog

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Hi, a friend of mine be in Bozeman, Montana next August and he’d like to buy a Fenwick fly rod. Can anyone let me know the nearest delear??? Thanks in advance for your help. Good Fishing, Paolo

You might try Fenwick directly and perhaps they can direct you to likely sources.  Unfortunately, they’re not on-line on the Web yet. Fenwick 5242 Argosy Ave. Huntington Beach, CA  92649 Phone:  714-897-1066 Fax:  714-891-9610 Also, check my page at http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish and go to "Fly Fishing Dealers".  Several Montana dealers are listed and I am sure they could help also. Best Regards. Trent Roberson Rx F Fish – - – For Your Good Health, Fly Fish http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

I just recently got a 4 piece Sage 8 wt. DS rod, and it broke while I was casting. I took it back to the local fly fishing shop and they sent the top 3 pieces back to Sage. He said it would take a few weeks to get back, I was rather disatisfied. It took 4 weeks. I just got the rod back a couple of days ago. However, it turns out that Sage only sent me back 2 of the 3 sections that were sent in and I have yet to hear back from them on whether they’ve found the piece or not. I think that since it’s Sage’s fault for mislocating the piece that they should ship it to my local fly shop via priority mail, either overnight or 2 day. Is there anything that I can do to speed up the process? or anything? Thanx in advance. Tite Lines, David Dreisbach

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: I just recently got a 4 piece Sage 8 wt. DS rod, and it broke while I was : casting. : I took it back to the local fly fishing shop and they sent the top 3 : pieces back : to Sage. He said it would take a few weeks to get back, I was rather : disatisfied. : It took 4 weeks. I just got the rod back a couple of days ago. However, it : turns : out that Sage only sent me back 2 of the 3 sections that were sent in and : I : have yet to hear back from them on whether they’ve found the piece or not. : I think : that since it’s Sage’s fault for mislocating the piece that they should : ship it to : my local fly shop via priority mail, either overnight or 2 day. Is there : anything : that I can do to speed up the process? or anything? Thanx in advance. : : Tite Lines, : David Dreisbach David, Try calling Sage at 1-800-533-3004 and ask for their Customer Service Dept or have your shop call them. They have been good to me on broken prime and blems. I’ve only had one break while casting, the others while wrapping on guides. Keep your feet dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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Hi,  I would consider 4 weeks turnaround as extremely good service. Some of the turnaround times I’ve dealt with were not measured in weeks OR months. The loss of the section is quite sloppy however.   Graphite can not be repaired so the section you were sent was a mismatched piece, a testimonial to consistent manufacturing if it still acts the same.   Bamboo can be easily repaired in the event of a mishap but it always takes much longer to get it fixed. Good release, A.J.Thramer

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Try calling their 800 number(206)842-6608, and discuss the problem with the warranty department.  The Sage Company is a very reasonable and reputable group…they will probably take good care of you.

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Question:

I’d like to her from someone in each State:  What are the water access laws in your State?  Doesn’t need to be long, but concise would be nice. Email or post.  Colorado is exempt from this request, as I already know. Thanx. –Chris

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As far as Maine goes, water access is not very clear.  There is not one set of laws that cover rivers, lakes, great ponds, and their flowages.  The state owns the land under a Great Pond (10 acres if natural, 30 acres if man-made) and you have the right to cross private, undeveloped land to get access – IF you cross by foot for the purposes of fishing or fowling. No vehicles, no mechanical aids (wheels under a canoe are out), etc.  Developed land includes fields planted with commercial crops, so you can’t cross a wheat or corn field to get to the pond either. You also have the right to canoe any navigable water.  Navigable means it can float a log.  The right does NOT include access to the bottom of the river, nor does it include the right to go around obstructions like waterfalls – even if you stay below the high water mark. Fly fisherman cannot by law walk up any stream bed they choose – even if the water is navigable.  Canoeist cannot legally get out of their canoe and line, jump on a rock, or wade through a shallow – although this is not enforced anywhere I know of. Dams and their flowages are owned by the dam owner, and they can post them no tresspass, so you cannot walk around the dam to get access to the river below. Most do not, and on popular runs, the dam owners either provide, or let volunteer groups maintain portage paths around the dam to avoid indiscriminate damage to their property.  The legal liability of this access may cause more dam owners to post their property in the future.   Many people in the state operate under the position that anything under the high water mark in a river is fair game and that you can carry around obstacles.  This is not the case (according to the Parks and Recreation office) and you are trespassing when you do this.  Maine land owners are fairly tolerant of canoeists however, and so we get away with this. The laws that are in affect in Maine are a conglomeration of multiple colonial ordinances that are still in affect since the time when Maine was part of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, something called the "Great Pond Act" and various court rulings over the years.   I have asked the reference librarian at the state law library for help.  If I get any better clarification on this I’ll let you know. Regards, -Tim

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This would probably be better answered by someone with more law knowledge than me, but I haven’t seen anyone answer for California so I thought I’d post what I know.  I seem to remember that the there was a major legal battle concerning public access along the South Fork of the American in California (sometime in the late 70’s?).  The private land owners along some sections of it actually tried to get river rafting completely banned from the river.  The result of the long and ugly battle was that the South Fork of the American was considered a navigatable waterway and therefore the private owners cannot restrict boating traffic on the river.  Rafters also legally have access to land up to the high water mark.  Despite the legal rights of boaters to be there, the section of river with most of the populated private property (ie. nice riverfront houses) has been designated as a "quiet zone".  In the "quiet zone", boaters are supposed to speak in normal conversation and not yell or have waterfights.  Also, out of respect to the landowners, boaters are supposed to choose state owned lands for lunch spots (and their are plenty of adequate places to stop that are not privately owned). Unfortunately I have no idea what the access laws are in Pennsylvania (the state where I currently live). Lori

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So far I have: Colorado New Mexico California Arkansas Main Keep them coming.  This important information. –Chris

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Here’s a quick summary of the Arkansas Access situation. From……Arkansas Riparian Boundaries           Richard L. Elgin and David R. Knowles           Surveying and Mapping, Vol. 44, No. 1, 1984, pp. 39-57      "Until the recent decision of State v. McIlroy (268 Ark. 227) (1980), the Arkansas navigability criteria rested on the watercourse’s commercial viability.      In State v. McIlroy, supra, the definition and commerce test for navigability was broadened to include recreational use. The case concerns the navigability of the Mulberry River, a favorite with canoeists, McIlroy, owner of land on both sides of the Mulberry River, sought a lower court ruling that he be declared the owner of the bed of the Mulberry River since the river was nonnavigable. The defendants were the Ozark Society, a conservationist group, and two companies that rent canoes for use on the Mulberry. The defendants generally claimed that the Mulberry was a navigable stream, but that even if the court found otherwise, a public easement in the Mulberry should be recognized.      The lower court found that the Mulberry River was nonnavigable, that the McIlroys owned it as riparian property owners, and that they could prevent the public from using the stream (the McIlroys owning both sides).      The State, the Ozark Society, and one of the canoe companies appealed to the Arkansas Supreme Court." From the record:      The facts presented prove that the Mulberry River at the point in question is capable of recreational use and has been used extensively for recreational uses. We must now decide whether such a stream is navigable.      While navigation in fact is widely regarded as the proper test of navigability…it is a test which should not be applied too literally… Arkansas has adopted a standard definition of navigability. Lutesville Sand & Gravel Co. v. McLaughlin, supra. The test, which was similiar to the general test used by the federal courts, defines navigability in terms of a river’s potential for commercial usefulness; that is whether the water could be used to remove the products of the surrounding land to another place…      Therefore, a river is legally navigable if actually navigable and actually navigable if commercially valuable. (The court predicted that the waters of the state would be used to a much greater extent for recreational purposes than they were at the time of the decision (1915). The court observed that since that time no case had been before them that "involved the public’s right to use a stream which has recreational value, but lacks commercial adaptability in the traditional sense." The Court said the Arkansas definition was "remnant of the steamboat era.") Concluding, the majority decision concerning the navigability of the Mulberry, the Court said:      Arkansas, as most states in their infancy, was mostly concerned with river traffic by steamboats or barges when cases like Lutesville, supra, were decided. We have had no case regarding recreational use of waters such as the Mulberry. It may be that our decisions did or did not anticipate such use of streams which are suitable, as the Mulberry is, for recreational use. Such use would include flatbottomed boats for fishing and canoes for floating – or both. There is no doubt that the segment of the Mulberry River that is involved in this lawsuit can be used for a substantial portion of the year for recreational purposes. Consequently, we hold that it is navigable at that place with all the incidental rights of that determination. In follow up, this case set the precedent which almost every paddler in the state knows about and several carry copies of the ruling in their shuttle rigs, however, there still remains landowners weilding guns, who insist on the respect of their ownership. As with many other states paddlers here backdown, avoiding confrontation many times. Currently most of the hairy runs either begin or end on private property and we have to be very careful here, even though we have an excellent precedent set by the courts. — Shelby D. Johnson,    Research Specialist         TEL: (501) 575-6159 CAST, Center for Advanced Spatial Technologies    FAX: (501) 575-5218   12 Ozark Hall, University of Arkansas

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What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup. -Dennis

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What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup.

I’m trying to find what the legal river access is in each state.  So far I have: Colorado New Mexico Alaska Arkansas Main California I know people paddle in more states than that….. –Chris

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Question:

Count me in as one all in favor of this idea PROVIDED the fly fishing messages weren’t all cross-posted to alt.fishing or r.o.f.  I routinely skip all fly-fishing postings, and would certainly welcome a new place for them!

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How would I know if this newsgroup were set up?  Are alt.fishing and r.o.c. also newsgroups?  Yesterday there was a mention of some kind of private posting.  How does that work?     (New to both flyfishing and internet…)

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Count me in as one all in favor of this idea PROVIDED the fly fishing messages weren’t all cross-posted to alt.fishing or r.o.f.  I routinely skip all fly-fishing postings, and would certainly welcome a new place for them!

 Yes indeed,  here’s my support for just another group, LISTSERV was nice, but like all, well most of them, they just become too popular for the morning reading!…we do have work to do:-)  Steve Drossel

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How would I know if this newsgroup were set up?  Are alt.fishing and r.o.c. also newsgroups?  Yesterday there was a mention of some kind of private posting.  How does that work?     (New to both flyfishing and internet…)

While I’m not new to flyfishing I am new to Internet. Would someone please explain to me, Jessica, and other newcomers how to access Flyfish? Thanks

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WHAT IS THE FLYFISH LIST?      What is the flyfish list? The flyfish list is a worldwide discussion group with flyfishing as the topic.  It is called a list because it is simply a mailing list.  The messages which comprise the discussion are sent as electronic mail (email) to everyone on the mailing list.  If you subscribe to flyfish, your name and computer address will simply be added to the mailing list and you will automatically receive electronic mail messages about flyfishing.      How do I subscribe? To subscribe to the flyfish list, send an email message to: The text of the message should be: subscribe flyfish John Smith (Substitute your name instead of John Smith) It is not necessary to specify a subject for this message.  Be everyone on the list.  The listserv address is used for administrative messages such as subscriptions and is handled automatically by a computer program which controls the list.      How do I get removed from the list? Once subscribed to the list, you may at some point wish to remove yourself from the list.  To do this, send an email message to: The text of the message should be: signoff flyfish (an equivalent command is: unsubscribe flyfish) It is not necessary to specify a subject for this message. Again, please remember to send this message to      How do I post messages? To post a message (to everyone on the list), simply send the message to: Any message mailed to this address will automatically be sent by the listserv program to everyone currently on the mailing list.   It helps to specify a brief, descriptive subject so that the people on the list can read (or delete) their mail efficiently. It also helps to end your message with your name and email address, so that readers may respond to you directly when desired.      How do I reply to a message? To reply to a message, you must first decide whether you want to reply only to the person that posted the message or to everyone on the list.  If you want to reply only to the one person, then do not use the "reply" function in your mail program.  That will of course, result in it being sent to everyone on the list. Instead, send your reply to his or her email address.  This can usually be obtained by examining the message to which you are responding.  Look for a signature at the end of the message or Unfortunately, it is possible that your mail program will remove such non-essential lines from the message header.  Signing your messages with your email address will assist others with this same problem. If you want your reply sent to everyone on the list, then send As with any message sent to this address, it will be distributed to everyone on the list.  It is helpful to specify the same subject, preceeded by "Re:". Most mail programs have a reply function which simplifies the process of replying to a message.  If you reply to a posted message using your reply function, your reply will be sent back distributed to everyone on the list.  This is how most people reply to messages because there is no need to type in the list address or the subject.  This may not work for everyone; in rare cases an overeducated mail program will ferret out the original sender from the header and reply to that person rather than the list, so you may have to do things the old fashioned way.      Why don’t I receive the messages that I post? If you post a message to flyfish, it is sent to everyone on the list except you, the sender.  If you want to receive your own with the following line of text: set flyfish repro Most people prefer to see their own messages sent back to them, if only as confirmation that the message actually was sent out without any difficulties.      I get too much mail from the list.  What can I do? You can get the mail from the list sent to you in digest form.  You will then get one message per day (usually) which contains all of the messages of the day.  Just send the message: set flyfish digests If this is still too much for you, you may wish to signoff the list.     Save these instructions in case this happens to you.      Are old messages archived? Yes, the old messages are archived.  To get a list of archived files containing the text:  index flyfish      How do I get an archived file? containing the text: get flyfish filename (Substitute the name of the file you want to get for filename)      Can I get a list of listserv commands? A short list of listserv commands will be sent to you if you send the message: help      Where else on the internet can I get flyfishing information      and files? Information on other electronic sources of flyfishing information is given in another FAQ file also posted periodically to the flyfish list.      I’m confused.  Where can I get help? If you have difficulties subscribing, resigning, or posting to the flyfish list, please direct your questions to the listowner and not to the list.  There is no need to clutter the mailboxes of subscribers with such questions.  The listowner will be happy to help you. This file is posted periodically to the flyfish list by questions about this file directly to me and not to the list. PS  The listowner and the location of the list will change in the     there is a definite problem with the list.  If you need help, you     A new flyfishing newsgroup should be starting soon.  I have posted     this message so that those of you that want to try the flyfish     list will know how to send commands to listserv (not flyfish),     because it is disruptive to the list to have administrative     messages sent to everyone.  However, if you are interested in     flyfishing, and have usenet access, please help get the new     group started.  Everyone will benefit, especially those that     would rather get their flyfishing fixes through a newsgroup     instead of in their email boxes.

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