Question:

Peter,     I don’t know the Ross Colorado, but I have several Gunnison and Cimarron reels from Ross, and the drags are anything but wimpy.  The thing I like most about them is that they will adjust from dead zero to enough to hold back a 20 pound salmon heading back to the salt. I’ve also controlled Pike up to 25 pounds with these reels, and I’ve never wanted the drag as tight as it can go. Chas

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody had asked a while back about Gallatin reels but I can’t find a reference to the post anymore.  I was browsing some reel web sites yesterday and I found Gallatin’s.  It turns out that the Gallatin reels shown on the site, are rebadged Marados.  These are Korean made machined and anodized reels that sell for very reasonable prices here. I have a Marado with a click & pawl drag and I’m quite satisfied with it.  They’re robustly made and feature the proven Hardy Marquis type drag, a ball-bearing at the base of the spindle, and a nice wood handle.  I used to own a Ross Colorado CO-0 and a CO-3; I prefer the Marado (Gallatin) to the Ross (wimpy drag on the Ross.) So to whoever asked, goferit.  The Marado (Gallatin) are among the best machined reel deals on the market (assuming the Gallatin prices are as reasonable as the Canadian Marado. – $135.00 CDN for the smallest model.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter,    I don’t know the Ross Colorado, but I have several Gunnison and Cimarron reels from Ross, and the drags are anything but wimpy.  The thing I like most about them is that they will adjust from dead zero to enough to hold back a 20 pound salmon heading back to the salt. I’ve also controlled Pike up to 25 pounds with these reels, and I’ve never wanted the drag as tight as it can go. Chas

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very wimpy spring.  It comes with two springs but even with the heavy one installed, there isn’t half the resistance of a typical Hardy Marquis.  It’s very easy to overspool them if you strip line out too quickly.  They are nicely made but Ross should have copied Hardy instead of the drag design they’ve used. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very

wimpy spring.    A very wimpy spring that doesn’t last very long.  I have a couple of Colorados, shame on me for being fooled twice. One failed me miserably at the Ennis clave, and the local fly shops didn’t have a spare spring for sale. The other failed on an extended backpacking trip, causing the fishing to be a frustrating experience. When they fail, the spring loses it’s "springiness" all of a sudden, and the reel becomes a free spooling birdsnest. If you have a Colorado that hasn’t failed yet, ALWAYS carry the extra spring, because you’ll need it one day.

Response:

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very wimpy spring.   A very wimpy spring that doesn’t last very long.  I have a couple of Colorados, shame on me for being fooled twice. One failed me miserably at the Ennis clave, and the local fly shops didn’t have a spare spring for sale. The other failed on an extended backpacking trip, causing the fishing to be a frustrating experience. When they fail, the spring loses it’s "springiness" all of a sudden, and the reel becomes a free spooling birdsnest. If you have a Colorado that hasn’t failed yet, ALWAYS carry the extra spring, because you’ll need it one day.

I called the Ross factory about the springs and their rep told me that they had built the Colorado this way to replicate the "traditional" feel of a click-drag reel.  IMHO, if they wanted to do that, they should have stuck to a traditional design. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Somebody had asked a while back about Gallatin reels but I can’t find a reference to the post anymore.  I was browsing some reel web sites yesterday and I found Gallatin’s.  It turns out that the Gallatin reels shown on the site, are rebadged Marados.  These are Korean made machined and anodized reels that sell for very reasonable prices here. I have a Marado with a click & pawl drag and I’m quite satisfied with it.  They’re robustly made and feature the proven Hardy Marquis type drag, a ball-bearing at the base of the spindle, and a nice wood handle.  I used to own a Ross Colorado CO-0 and a CO-3; I prefer the Marado (Gallatin) to the Ross (wimpy drag on the Ross.)   So to whoever asked, goferit.  The Marado (Gallatin) are among the best machined reel deals on the market (assuming the Gallatin prices are as reasonable as the Canadian Marado. – $135.00 CDN for the smallest model.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

Response:

Suggest you buy a little book called "Curtis Creek Manifesto" as a start. Its in an adult comic type format. Don’t be put off by this. Its a serious and great intro to the sport. Ideal for the self teacher. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

Response:

Library (books and videos)  Tackle shops (networking, local chapters of trout unlimited and other fly tying/fishing groups) reading this group and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

Response:

Question:

_______ I spent so much money today . . . buying the final Bastard Assembly Line Items, I don’t know how MUCH the Certified Check was for, but just the ink on it weighted 3 pounds.  (From what Gladys says)  The postage to send it Priority Mail cost her $22! I do know this.  Bastards are going to be worth every bit of $1800 – $2400 dollars right out of the starting blocks.  That I’m crazy enough to offer them for $300 as an introductory challenge to the world of fly fishing, does NOT mean I’m forced to hold these prices forever. Why don’t you guys move the conclave to here and help me build your fly rods? Today it is a steady, cold, spring rain.  My fax machine blew up.  Had to buy a new one.  Just now finished hooking it up. This was AFTER we mailed that BIG check. See your Grand American & Bastard Updates.  Order a reel with that Bastard Beauty that you have coming.  You only live once.  This is what a lot of you are doing. Visit: http://www.gink.com I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

Response:

_______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

 George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.  George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo

Mr.  G.

Response:

Question:

Right on. Al

Response:

Right on. Al

Fly" while slicing  your sandwich in two with your fillet knife. —

Question:

Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I would think catching him on a bad backcast would be risky.   As to suggestions, my own german shepherd has gotten a bit old.  I find that  after a good hour or so of splashing and playing she settles down and prefers  to watch me from the bank.  So I spend an hour playing with the dog and hiking  upstream before I start fishing.

Response:

I have two dogs who love to swim after me on a quiet lake if I let them.   When the fishing is bad and can’t get any worse, sometimes I call them out and let them troll beside my canoe.  However, I don’t encourage this if there are other fisherman in the lake.  When I fish on a river, I just leave them in my van.  They are quite happy hanging out for a couple of hours at a time.  Less stress worring about pissing off other guys.   Besides nothing spooks fish more than a couple of splashing muts swiming around, or having them get caught in the current. C. Carefoot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend,I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

Response:

Me thinks too many folks are buying into this dog/flyfishing c**p you see on the cover of catalogs, books, calendars, etc..  I like the one photo on my TU calendar where this gorgeous lady flyfisher, all decked in Orvis gear, in her twenties, shows a 26" trout to her black lab.  It’s titled "introducing one love to another". Now here’s reality: if there is a woman, she looks like a Jenny-Craig dropout.  The trout she holds is a SNIT (stocked nine-inch trout).  She wears an "Uncle Buck’s Salmon Eggs" t-shirt covered with fish slime, probably from the stringer of fish wrapped around her neck.  The dog is drowning because he can’t swim, and drooling more water than there is in the stream.  The title would be "Rover finally discovers what fresh fish smells like". Voice of experience – tried training Boomer my black lab to go flyfishing. He ran everybody off the stream.  I had to leave before the sheriff arrived. Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

Response:

This is gonna be another Swayback Story. One of the members of that fine club has a Newfoundland Duck Tolling Retriever bitch.  Nice dog.  Takes her fishing with him often.   Well, one Saturday evening this guy is fishing the water by my house with the Noof.  He get’s into a fish – maybe 17-18".  He gets the fish into netting range, and damned if the dog doesn’t pounce on the poor thing, grab it in it’s mouth, and take it to shore.  Then the noof sets the fish on the gravel and sits there proud as punch.  Believe it or not, the fish was released, relatively unharmed. As I understand these dogs they’re used as duck dogs in Canada.  They have very strong retrieval instincts it would appear.  But I never thought they were that strong. Personally, I find fishing with a dog, especially a water dog to be very annoying. They can go all over the place, and mess up everything.  Maybe Josh’s dog is a better dog than that – I sure hope so anyway. I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

– </chaz Chaz Clover The Paved Earth Society http://www.rmi.net/~clover/pave_the_earth   "Why Not Just Get On With It?"

Response:

Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

Sorry, but an enjoyable day on the river *always* includes the dog ! My mutt patiently sits on the bank until a trout is hooked, and then dives in to attempt a retrieve. Lots of excitement – and all he asks for is one quick lick of the fish. So what if he ruins that pool, there’s plenty more within a short walk, and more trout than I could catch in a lifetime. It’s seldom I see another fisherman on my stretch of river, and my buddies get a bigger kick out of watching the dog than playing the numbers game in fish caught in a day. Hunting season’s too short, and time too precious to spend outdoors without my pooch! Andrew Banff Alberta

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

My yellow lab started obedience training at 16 weeks and was fish_able when she turned 5. She knew all the commands and would obey 99% of the time, but you know labs & water :- At 5 I began taking her to the beach fishing on off tides so she wouldn’t bother anyone (she’s very friendly), or when I’d fish more isolated spots in the marshes and rocks. She did fine, I let her roam within reason, she seems to know her limits and is pretty unobtrusive. At 6 I began taking her to a local river that ran behind a barrier beach. I met a friend there and we decided to wade out to a nice looking flat. Gave Cass the ‘Stay’ command and she sat in a spot in the marsh for the next hour, watching us, not moving until I released her, then she went and chased seagulls for a while, but never came near the water we were fishing. My friend, who used to have a yellow lab too, was amazed. I can let her roam like this because she’s very good with hand signals. After I finish fishing I always do the tennis ball thing with her, so she knows that her patience will be rewarded, that seems to help a lot. So now I have a great fishing buddy, but it did take a lot of time and training to get her there. The point where she really started obeying was when I released a striper into a very strong rip and she dove in to retrieve it, she got one hell of a ride out to sea until she got loose. She never did that again, though I don’t necessarily recommend doing this on purpose :-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

my dog is a horrible fishing dog, so she spends my fishing time drooling on my couch.  if you really want to fish with your pooch, i would recommend just spending lots of time with it on and near rivers.  go to areas where the fishing is marginal, so you don’t piss other anglers off while training your dog.  practice your casting while working (it might be tough to concentrate on the fish and your dog) on keeping your dog out of the water (if you own a breed that loves the water, it might be tough to keep it out of the water). remember that non-dog owners can be wary of large breed dogs and that a dog along the river isn’t always welcome by other anglers especially if dog owners don’t pick up after their animals.   good luck and good training, chris

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I don’t have any insight other than once you find out, I’d like to know. I took my lab fishing this past summer and of course every time I casted, he’d jump in after the fly. I tried tying his leash to a willow bush – he bent the willow over so far that he made it into the water again. When I finally got him tied up good, he’d bark every time I casted – not a good thing when you start fishing 5am and there are other people around trying to sleep. Rich

Response:

I’m a dog trainer by profession & there is no easy, magic way to make a "fishing" dog.  An unruly dog has no place on the stream. The first place to start is with basic obedience so the dog learns the commands of heel, sit, down, stay & come as true commands not just requests that the dog follows when it wants to.  This means alot of work at home before ever taking the dog to a stream with you. However, much of it has to do with basic temperament & personality.  I’ve bred, trained, and owned alot of dogs over the years & I’ve only had two that were what I would call true "fishing" dogs.  One was a Golden & the other a Irish Setter.  They would wadeswim at my side while I was fishing or I could put them in a stay on the bank where they would remain no matter what else was going on. The unique characteristic these two had was that they were into fishing. They could stay with me all day without getting distracted the other exciting things that happen such as rabbits, birds, other anglers etc.  They would intensely watch & get very excited when I hooked a fish.  I would land it, show it to them & let them see it swim away. Great companions.  The Irish, though, would get impatient & would bark at me if I hadn’t caught a fish soon enough for her! I don’t take untrained dogs with me fishing. Training has to be done at stream side.  fishing.  This takes time, patience & discipline. It means working with your dog without fishing. Dogs not under strict control should not be off leash and have no business stream side. I don’t have a "fishing" dog, but I do have a young one that shows some real promise. Willi

Response:

Question:

I’d go looking for a catalog from a man called Lew Codella…I think it’s in Boston, MA? A friend of mine swears by him. Try looking in a back of a magazine for the address. Also there’s a zillion bamboo guys with web sites try doing a little web surfing and maybe you’ll find a few phone numbers or e-mail addresses. — Enter the WWW fly tying contest by visiting my web site:http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying

Response:

Dear fellow fishing enthusaists: I have the opportunity to buy an antique Orvis fishing rod and reel at a local fly-fishing shop and was wondering if the asking price is approximate to its true value.  The rod is an ORVIS IMPREGNATED BAMBOO ROD- SUPERLIGHT SPIN.  The serial # is 65072, length is 6′0", and it’s two-piece design.  It is in mint condition and comes with the orginal container.  The reel is an ORVIS 50A SPINNING REEL.  The owner wants $250 for it.  Is this fair?  Your comments will be very appreciated. Thank you, Peter Byron   Albany, NY

Peter: I believe this is a fair deal, slightly below market value, where market value is what the main dealers in this stuff charge.  I’d say the reel alone has a market value of $50-75 and the rod $250-300, especially if it’s truly mint.  Remember, though, that market value is what the dealers get. If you tried to sell it, you might not get that much, although tne Net has opened this up a bit.  Hope this helps. –Rich

Response:

Dear fellow fishing enthusaists: I have the opportunity to buy an antique Orvis fishing rod and reel at a local fly-fishing shop and was wondering if the asking price is approximate to its true value.  The rod is an ORVIS IMPREGNATED BAMBOO ROD- SUPERLIGHT SPIN.  The serial # is 65072, length is 6′0", and it’s two-piece design.  It is in mint condition and comes with the orginal container.  The reel is an ORVIS 50A SPINNING REEL.  The owner wants $250 for it.  Is this fair?  Your comments will be very appreciated. Thank you, Peter Byron   Albany, NY

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Question:

: I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you                        <clip<clip<clip : has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. : For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm : "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of : 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington : state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each : campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional : stewardship of state wildlife managers. : Americans for Medical Progress, the key national research advocacy group : that monitors the animal rights agenda, predicted the HSUS ballot          <clip<clip<clip : and laboratory animal issues and other issues that are appropriate" in the : future."… There was an initiative here in Michigan this last election dealing with the taking of bear over bait or with hounds.  The initiative would have banned both practices. When I found out what was  behind this initiative, it became clear to me it was nothing more than an anti-hunting measure.  The person behind getting it on the ballot claimed it would help bear hunting because it would license more hunters to get the same harvest.  Well, it would also have banned bear hunting during anytime in which baiting for any other specie was allowed. Since we have a deer season that runs from October first to the end of of December, there wouldn’t really be any time to have a bear season. There were a couple of other issues that indicated to me that this whole thing was vacant of anything substantive and was just an anti-hunting measure. Fortunately, it was defeated *SOUNDLY* and another measure passed that gives wildlife management to the professionals. PETA and apparently HSUS supported the initiative. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech University

Response:

My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal.

In my view of the universe, the achilles heel of this legislation is in the fact that it takes "wildlife management" out of the hands of the professionals (ie. Departments of Fish and Game/Wildlife [admittedly an arguable statement, but certainly not improved upon by asking Joe/ Jane-weaned-on-Disney-Classics to take up this responsibility]).  Why do we believe that Fish and Game managers allow detrimental (some would claim "cruel’) practices to continue despite convincing evidence "that even a layman can understand"?  Could it be that the issue is more complex than we appreciate?  Let the wildlife management community do their job.  We should be able to make input into the decision making process.  But, let’s not take the decision making out of the hands of the trained professionals until they give us cause. Clearly, with 27 ballot initiatives on the Oregon ballet this year, the initiative process is being abused.  I always ask myself– "Is this a matter that requires a change to the state constitution, with all the attendant costs, to address the issue?"   The answer is usually, "No". I guess it goes back to the thread about big government vs. individual responsibility.  But, in reverse!  Now were talking about big government (ie. the voting owners of the government) trying to dictate how the little wildlife management community (probably a government agency working with state schools) carries out its responsibilities. Life is weird when you’re left-handed! Charley

Response:

First of all, I actually read the initiative.  Unfortunately I don’t have a copy here in front of me, so this is from memory.  One of the local papers had an editorial slamming the initiative because it didn’t "Outlaw" the practices, just made them illegal for common folk. The text of the initiative stated (not a quote, but the gist) that Wildlife agents or their assigns could use bait or hounds to hunt down and kill problem bears.  Read "bears that are annoying people".  Sort of gives the lie to the idea that the practices are just tooooo barbaric and unfair. It stated that bait could be used to attract bears for "research purposes," whatever that means.  (But I thought that we didn’t want the bears to get used to people feeding them…) Anyone who has ever hunted bear in Western Washington brush knows that the traditional method of controlling bear numbers (sport hunting) just went out the window.  Incidental kills simply will not keep pace with population growth.  Ain’t no way you’re going to be able to target an area and reduce the bear population without resorting to bait and/or hounds. Well, maybe poisoned poodles……no wait, that’s bait…… Of course we could mount a multimillion dollar campaign to supply the bruins with condoms. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds. Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  

In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

Response:

     < snip "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts.

Hi Jim, The Washington State initiative is the only one I know about.  It only prohibits bear baiting and hound hunting for cougars.  I don’t hunt but "some of my best friends . . .".  Many hunters supported the initiative but the anti crowd used wild and false statements (along the lines of "they wanna take away your right to hunt, they wanna take away your way of life") in their attempt to defeat the initiative.  Fortunately, the public saw through their BS and passed it. My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal. August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: AM Construction   In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for   bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these   techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and   presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.     Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.     Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do   it for sport, and it generates revenues.   Steve

OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds.   Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

And don’t get caught with a trap. I hear that the next election, they are going after using hooks on fish. Paul

Response:

In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.   Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.   Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do it for sport, and it generates revenues. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers. For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,       -tgades tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

The other method they use is to create paranoia through undercover fanatical defenders of the insane under the guise of "I’m just sticking up for the minorities no matter how ludicress it sounds". Scully and Mulder will expose your devious plot.  You don’t fool me! Mike

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

Response:

  I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers.

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

You might want to re-read the the ballot question carefully. Question 1 in Massachusetts was advertised to outlaw the use of spring traps in the state. At the End of the lengthy ballot question it also read that the laws are to be changed to allow non sportsman(AKA ARA’s) to serve on the board that governs hunting and fishing in this state. Unfortunatly all the TV ads showed thirty year old footage of animals including household pets caught in the traps with no mention of the second part of the question and question 1 passed by a 3-2 margin. Hopefully this can be changed before the ARA’s take over the board and try to ban hunting and fishing in this state.(Don’t think it can’t happen!!)

Response:

Question:

 I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to  the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy Charlies,  Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies.  Can they be used  for fresh water fishing?  And what applications might they have in the  coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt.  Can they be used  for other fish in the Cheasapeake.  I would love to know if they have  other applications.  I suspect they do.

Do you have any Clouser Minnows?  Both Crazy Charlies and Clousers in Bright colors are said to work for salmon, trout, and stealhead in the Alaska region.  Clousers can also work for stripers sometimes.

Response:

I’ve had alot of success with crazy charlies on my trout homewaters in New Hampshire.  More trout have been taken on them than bonefish for me!  In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

Response:

: I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do.

I’ve taken native brown trout in streams on pink Crazy Charlies. I am looking forward to using them on lake run browns and rainbows in the fall.

Response:

I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

They sometimes work on Shad ( running now on both coasts ) and try them in the surf for perch or what ever else. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Davenport) writes: : I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do.

I understand that Crazy Charlies are a pretty good Carp Fly if that holds any interest for you…….

Response:

I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

Response:

: I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do. : : :We have found that the gotchas are great on shad.

Response:

Question:

If you are talking about regular woven bodies?  You tie your two flosses in at the bend in the hook and simple tie a series of single over hand knots.  Always tie in the same pattern left over right or right over left and you will wind up with light on top or bottom.  Pick the pattern you want and go with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

Response:

<Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? Davy is going to be at the Midwest Fly Show Jan 6,7, and 8th in Westmont, IL 400 E. Ogden Ave.  He will be tying all three days and I am sure he will be more than happy to answer any questions you have in regards to the Polish Woven Nymph.  He did not originate this pattern but he ties them as well or better than the original.  If you want more info on the Midest Fly Show call me @ 1-800-328-9753 or E mail.                                                           Marcos

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:    - a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d    - you need a widish gape hook.    - surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.    - rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed    - wool is good    - Don’t neglect peacock herl    - use wool on size 6 hooks to practice    - leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps      with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN    Wet beatle/nymph –    hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.    thread: black    rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.    underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely    tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.    Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top    the bottom being an orange floss heavy.    Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.    TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with    maintaining the right tension    It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment    and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

Not to drop names, but I will be seeing Davy this weekend and would be pleased to obtain any additional info on this fly. E-Mail me at: am not sure if my net provider has a local #.

Response:

Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Response:

Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication.

There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

Response:

: Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:         – a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d         – you need a widish gape hook.         – surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.         – rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed         – wool is good         – Don’t neglect peacock herl         – use wool on size 6 hooks to practice         – leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps           with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN         Wet beatle/nymph –         hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.         thread: black         rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.         underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely         tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.         Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top         the bottom being an orange floss heavy.         Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.         TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with         maintaining the right tension         It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment         and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

Response:

Question:

The Santa Cruz Fly Fishermen are often found on the Monterey Bay in CA. Most of them do quite well , usually  much  better than the bait fishermen. We enjoy many species of rockfish  as well as shark on a fly, also stripped bass.

Response:

The Santa Cruz Fly Fishermen are often found on the Monterey Bay in CA. Most of them do quite well , usually  much  better than the bait fishermen. We enjoy many species of rockfish  as well as shark on a fly, also stripped bass.

I have fished the Santa Cruz marine area for many years using fly. I find that the rockcod fishing is very productive at this time of year. I use a 7-8 wt. rod with 18 feet of lead core. I use 15 lb. leader with a two fly setup. For shark (mostly Blue shark) I use a cheap 10-11 wt. rod with a very good reel and lots of backing. I use a floating line with 20 lb. tipit with a foot long piece of single strand wire (58 lb. strength) as a shock leader. Also, for both rockcod and shark I make sure that the barb is flattened on my flies. This is for everyone’s good (including the fish). Last year was a very successful year for rockcod and shark. This year, it has been only fair, but some outstanding fish days did occur. John

Response: