Question:

Have the white flies started to hatch on the upper Potomac yet?

Response:

Yes.  Best time is after seven p.m.  I’ve been using a "green weenie" pattern, but using white chenille vice chartreuse. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Yes.  Best time is after seven p.m.  I’ve been using a "green weenie" pattern, but using white chenille vice chartreuse. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Frank, it strikes me that Doc Saylor might be somebody you ought to hook up with (no pun intended) Given your propensity to do face plants and other wild gyrations while fishing, you need to make him your fishin’ buddy. Just tryin’ to keep you alive and his business flourishing. Frank Sr. who is due for two more cortisone shots in the heels. YIKES!!!

Response:

Frank, it strikes me that Doc Saylor might be somebody you ought to hook up with (no pun intended) Given your propensity to do face plants and other wild gyrations while fishing, you need to make him your fishin’ buddy. Just tryin’ to keep you alive and his business flourishing. Frank Sr. who is due for two more cortisone shots in the heels. YIKES!!!

Actually, looking for the Air Force Pararescue type. Need someone who can scale a cliff or a fish, shoot an attacking grizzly or a class V rapid to drag my ass out, repair a float tube or repair to the extraction point.  Must be qualified in white water, avalanche, and deep submersible rescue.  Should be world renown fly tyer and brewer. Now thats a fishing buddy.                  Frank (Just had cortisone next to my spine)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, it strikes me that Doc Saylor might be somebody you ought to hook up with (no pun intended) Given your propensity to do face plants and other wild gyrations while fishing, you need to make him your fishin’ buddy. Just tryin’ to keep you alive and his business flourishing. Frank Sr. who is due for two more cortisone shots in the heels. YIKES!!! Actually, looking for the Air Force Pararescue type. Need someone who can scale a cliff or a fish, shoot an attacking grizzly or a class V rapid to drag my ass out, repair a float tube or repair to the extraction point.  Must be qualified in white water, avalanche, and deep submersible rescue.  Should be world renown fly tyer and brewer. Now thats a fishing buddy.

You need a dog. — TL, Tim (well, not for the fly tying and brewing but, hey, nobody’s perfect.)

Response:

You need a dog. — TL, Tim

Well, I have a dog.  I shall refer to him as "blond dog."  He is a master brewer, as a matter of fact, his output rivals Budweiser in quantity and quality.  He is afraid of bugs, terrified of the treadmill (well, thats not a bad thing), feet moving under a blanket on the bed will send him into a barking fit for two hours, often forgets to put his feet back down when jumping off of a step, gets beaten up by the cat, has more psychosis than ROFF (you must pretend that you are trying to eat his food or he will go 4-5 days without eating), his daddy was a long-haired miniture dachshund and mommy was a maltese.  So he is either a dachtese or a malhund.  I don’t need another. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Well, I was in the Navy so I could probably call in an aircraft carrier to save you on occasion.  I’m also due to brew my sixth batch of pale ale or porter soon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You need a dog. — TL, Tim Well, I have a dog.  I shall refer to him as "blond dog."  He is a master brewer, as a matter of fact, his output rivals Budweiser in quantity and quality.  He is afraid of bugs, terrified of the treadmill (well, thats not a bad thing), feet moving under a blanket on the bed will send him into a barking fit for two hours, often forgets to put his feet back down when jumping off of a step, gets beaten up by the cat, has more psychosis than ROFF (you must pretend that you are trying to eat his food or he will go 4-5 days without eating), his daddy was a long-haired miniture dachshund and mommy was a maltese.  So he is either a dachtese or a malhund.  I don’t need another. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Okay, think we gotta hook up.  I do know of a couple of good spots within ten miles of Harpers Ferry.  My daughter is coming back this weekend after a month away so will stay home, but mayhaps next?  I’ll even leave off the squiddly jokes. — Frank Reid (USAF Retired) Reverse email to reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You need a dog. — TL, Tim Well, I have a dog.  I shall refer to him as "blond dog."  He is a master brewer, as a matter of fact, his output rivals Budweiser in quantity and quality.  He is afraid of bugs, terrified of the treadmill (well, thats not a bad thing), feet moving under a blanket on the bed will send him into a barking fit for two hours, often forgets to put his feet back down when jumping off of a step, gets beaten up by the cat, has more psychosis than ROFF (you must pretend that you are trying to eat his food or he will go 4-5 days without eating), his daddy was a long-haired miniture dachshund and mommy was a maltese.  So he is either a dachtese or a malhund.  I don’t need another.

Thanks.  Best laugh I’ve had in a week.  Nice to know someone has at least one pet crazier than most I’ve had. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

I think I can see it… no wait, that’s not it. Nevermind. — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can’t see shit…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

What post? Wolfgang

Response:

I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

I see it directly.  I just changed my ISP because of dropped messages and other newsgroups problems.

Response:

I saw it.                   Tom L

Response:

[This followup was posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly and a copy was sent to the cited author.] Saw it here. I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

– Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

Response:

If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon

I saw it.  Didn

Question:

In light of the recent tension, caused by so-called "ignorance," I began thinking about words and symbols that either have more than one meaning or are bastardized in one way or another. http://www.ccnet.com/~suntzu75/news_archives/pc970001.htm — Op

Response:

In light of the recent tension, caused by so-called "ignorance," I began thinking about words and symbols that either have more than one meaning or are bastardized in one way or another. http://www.ccnet.com/~suntzu75/news_archives/pc970001.htm — Op

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to that a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? — — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to that a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? —

        george, you need to clear out.  your posts are beginning to make a soup sandwich look like the rock of gibralter. wayno

Response:

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to take a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? —         george, you need to clear out.  your posts are beginning to make a soup sandwich look like the rock of gibralter. wayno

Clearing the cache right now Wayne! — — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Question:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

I have a 590SP.  I use a 6wt. Orvis Wonderline and it works great! Good luck, Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

I am interested in your use of a DT on your SP590.  Sounds like the two lines (the DT5 and tyhe WF7) cover a pretty wide range of situations with the same rod.  Like fishing a bigassed river one day, and a little meadow crawler the next., with the same rod. Is that what you are after? Sage touts the "reserve power" bit on the SPs. Does the overlining kick it in? Ill have to try it. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Most good quality rods will handle several line sizes.  The size recommended by the maker is usually that size that most people would find works well under most conditions…and allows the rod to properly load at normal fishing distances…and for the designated action of the rod to come into play.  Most flyfishers have their own casting styles and fishing situations that are unique to them….and, as a consequence, tend to prefer certain actions on the rods with which they fish.  So…it’s not unusual to find flyfishers that will find a different weight line working better for them on a selected rod when that line weight is different than the recommended weight.  And, it is not unusual to find that fisherman disagree on the best line weight for a particular rod.  Also factoring in the type of fishing and the distance of your normal casts, affects what line is "best" for a particular rod.  Many flyfishers, myself included, tend to use several line weights on a rod….depending on the fishing situation at hand.  However, on the Sage LL rods, I pretty much stick to the manufacturers suggested weights as they work best for me…and I don’t like a much slower rod than the LL Sage…so I don’t overline it.  Now…the SPplus Sage is another matter…and I have overlined it by one and even two sizes at times….ditto on the RPLplus.  I recall a disagreement that I once had with the Harry Wilson (from Scott Rods a number of years ago) regarding a ten weight Scott that I bought.  I could put a thirteen weight on that rod and still feel that it was underlined.  Harry and I argued about that rod for a long time. I ended up returning it.  In retrospect, my casting style and the action that I wanted to bring out in the rod were vastly different than Harry’s. So…we were both right in the sense that we knew what worked best for us as individuals. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone.

If this is intended to say that experienced casters don’t like to go up a line weight, then I’ll disagree. I’ve read that Joan Wulff says she routinely goes up a line weight. I fish a Winston IM6 4 weight with 6 weight line in situations where I have to make longer roll casts or cope with some wind. It handles the heavier line with aplomb. Yes, aplomb. I’ve never been in a situation where it couldn’t handle the amount of line I was trying to cast (which is probably a max of 60 feet). Rick

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Hi All, I have seen this situation for many years. We all have a different casting strokes or styles. Some of us are high speed, tip casters and some, like this gentleman, have a slow stroke where he loads the rod way down into the butt. This is nothing new. I use a weight forward 5 floating line on that rod and it works fine for me. some of my fishing partners would use a #6 line. Not too many would use a #7 line.  I think a #7 line would start to over load that rod at 50+ feet. Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone. PS: I might be wrong, but I think that the largest XPS is a #6????? Maybe it is a new GPX or maybe I am wrong?

Response:

Question:

AA Outfitters (used to be AA Pro Shop I think) used to carry them, had some pretty good prices on mostly cosmetic seconds.  I haven’t bought from them in a couple of years though so I’m not sure if they still do. -jerry http://www.gorp.com/aa_pro/default.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Cote’s Fly Shop in Leicester Ma., sells blems and seconds as well as excellent rods made with them by Ray Cote. Call 508-892-3765 and tell them Jerry Schrader sent you. Jerry Schrader, a pro wedding photog.  http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

The Anglers Workshop, www.anglersworkshop.com, sells blems at a pretty good price too.

Response:

Two good sources for blems are: Jon King at JJ King Flyfishing Co., Alturas, CA Excellent deals, special rates for clubs & associations. Jon King is very honest, very helpful.  I built a 10 foot 9 weight from a two piece blem and his parts/components kit and it turned out to be an excellent salmon/steelhead rod.  I think the prices are $6/foot for four piece blanks and $5/foot for a two piece rod. honest, helpful guy.  He’s a guide in the Phoenix area so he may not answer your email right away if he’s out with a client guiding. The man has a good selection of blems. I bought a bunch of Berkley 4 piece blems for $25 each and turned them into excellent rods.  I got a 4 weight, a 6 weight, and an 8 weight, all 9 feet long.  Plus some other even cheaper blems made by Kunan (?) to practice on. Even these Korean blanks which I bought to play with, fearing to ruin a high end blank, turned into pretty decent 5 wghts. Al Soroka Vancouver, B.C.

Response:

Question:

Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me. Ashman

Response:

Check for local Trout unlimited chapters…….good place to start networking so to speak…….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me. Ashman

Response:

Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me.

Edmonton eh?   You lucky dog; you get to listen to CKUA all the time.   I only get the Real Audio feed when I’m at my computer. Joe

Response:

Question:

i fish the coast of cal. and just last weekend i was surf fishing near half moon bay and pulled in a 28in" 12lb. striper! all i can tell you is that i fish the slack tides, look for the pockets and pools. i got the striper in slack tide in the surf using sand crabs but cut bait and pile worms work good also. i tie on my own hooks and keep the bottom hook about 18in. from the lead. keep at it, hope this helps! sal

Response:

I live along the I-5 corridore in Oregon. My family and I camp along the coast between Bandon and Newport. Each time I take my 12′ surf rod and I go out on the jetties and beaches and fish for hours. I’ve been doing this for years and have yet to catch a damn thing. Can someone please give me some suggestions. I’m getting tired of my wife making fun of me. thank you.

Response:

Although I live in Utah now, I grew up surf fishing the California coast. And I must confess, I’ve never gone surf fishing and not caught something, even though my first attempt as a young boy was with a fly rod. (I ran down the beach carrying the sinker, turned and came back to my pole, and then threw the sinker into the surf.) Here are my suggestions: Use shrimp on a #5 beak hook on a leader with 2 loops for hooks.  This hook has a short shank so the whole thing will fit inside a segment of the shrimp.  I’ve seen anglers doing things like digging sand crabs (which the perch eat), using anchovies, etc.  Nothing works better than shrimp. Use an inverted 3 oz. pyramid sinker so the undertoe will pull it out, not wash it into shore.  If you find your line is being washed to the shore on one side of you, move until the undertoe pulls it straight out.  If you get into a good current, it will take you line way out past the surf and you may catch things like shark and flounder rather than surf perch. Fish between the shore break and the big waves.  Between the big waves, it looks like a flat, calm area.  Then the waves break on it and stirs up the sand.  This area has surf perch which are great eating.  And they are the easiest to catch.  You will also feel weight on your line rather than the wiggle of a fish.  And you should be checking your anyway.  Surf has a way of removing it. Don’t worry about how far you can cast.  Most anglers cast too far.  The perch are in the surf.  Anything bigger will probably be caught letting the undertoe carry your line out. If you fish from a jetty made from rocks, keep a gunny sack for the fish so the crabs won’t get them.  And set a crab trap so you can put them in a 2nd gunny sack.  Red rock crabs don’t have seasons and size limits like dungeness crabs, either.  Fishing at the end of a jetty can produce ling cod and rock fish (great eating), manta rays (too heavy to even get out of the water), various sharks, and other weird looking things which you aren’t likely to get from the shore.  But if that fails, fish the surf. And don’t worry about tides.  There are always fish in the surf.  That’s where they live.  My best catches have been in the late morning to early afternoon. Rich Utah Fish Finder http://www.utahfishfinder.com

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Question:

What are your favorite instructional videos on fly-tying (beginning or advanced)?  I’ve enjoyed the discussion on favorite books for fly fishing and would like to see recommendations in this area. – John John D. Corless Institute of Optics                             (716) 275-8006 phone University of Rochester                         (716) 244-4936 fax

Response:

 What are your favorite instructional videos on fly-tying (beginning  or advanced)?

I bought Del Mazza’s Tying Classic Flies He covers six flies, three classic  and three contemporary He does a nice job it costs $29.95 an is over two hours long                     John Dwyer     A Flytyer and a Flyfisherman       May your leaders sink, your felts hold, and your flies float high !                 Victor NY    Western gateway to the Fingerlakes

Response:

Gary Borger’s Trout Flies Paul Jorgensoen’s(sp?) 2 volum set (name forgotten) Simon Hallett

Response:

I’ve seen a bunch and my favorite by far are the two videos with Rene Harrop tying Mayflies and Caddis flies.  He uses CDC and ties intermediate stages as well as the normal e.g. nymph, dun, spinner.  I don’t remember the name of the producer but they had one of the Saturday morning FF shows.   It was a guy and his wife – she squeaked and giggled a lot and talked to fish.  You know the people.  Fortunately they aren’t in the videos except at the intro.

Response:

: Gary Borger’s Trout Flies : : Paul Jorgensoen’s(sp?) 2 volum set (name forgotten) : : Simon Hallett "My Favorite Flies", VOL I-II, Poul Jorgenson B.

Response:

Gary Lafontaine did a video on tying Caddis patterns with Mike Lawson and Jack Dennis as guests. Gary demonstrates how to tie his various sparkle patterns using antron.  These are really great patterns, especially the Emergent Sparkle Pupa, which is a fly I wouldn’t leave home without during Caddis season.  Lawson demos a couple af his favorites including the Hemingway Caddis.  Dennis demos the standard Elk Hair Caddis.   There’s also some pretty nice fishing action on the video towards the end,  which takes place on the Green River below Flaming Gorge.  My only criticism of the video is that these guys, especially Lafontaine take this a little too seriously. If he had lightened up a bit the video would have been more fun to watch, but it is very informative.

Response:

Question:

Mass. non-resident (7-day) is $16.50 Very close to Chelmsford pan-fish and some bass can be found on the Sudbury and Concord rivers. There is also some ocean blue-fishing done with salt fly rods but I know little about this. Regarding trout, nearest to Chelmsford is the Nissitissit River, fly-fishing only C&R. A bit further afield are the Cape ponds.  About an hour away is the fly-fishing only C&R on the Swift River and further still is the C&R section of the Deerfield.  The Swift and Deerfield drain the Quabbin and Fife Brook Dam repectively so the water temperatures will stay optimal throughout the summer – which is why they are the two best bets at this time of year. Stocking takes place near to (and in) Chelmsford but its all put-and-take, the fish can’t survive this long. I am not especially familiar with New Hampshire, but for the cost of a non-resident license I think you’d have better chances there. Chelmsford is just a few minutes from the border.

Response:

When I worked in Chelmsford I used to fish Walden Pond a lot. Lots of brown trout, many of them big (biggest I’ve seen was a 12 lb. a guy got on bait) and big rainbows (to 7 lbs.) too, but this was many years ago (‘84). At the time I did best with Henryvilles, midges and muddlers fished deep and slow at night. Nine three streamers were good for rainbows too.                                                         jc

Response:

Question:

| In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One | example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of | the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should | point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that | estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). | I thought the Wye in Derbyshire was the only English river with a natural population of rainbows. If the Derwent has them reproducing, i would love to hear more. Of course, most of the chalk-streams have been ruined by overstocking of both rainbows and browns. | | There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being | caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been | ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing | fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and | the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just | didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across | the table. Give me a ring about this, at work — 071-956-1682 — and I willput you through to my frinsd the rural affairs correspondent. It would make a good story if we talked to kthe netsman. | | Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told | me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just | succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish | are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth | full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are | not small, running to several pounds. Completely different | from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! | | What worries me about this is the possibility that these | things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I | don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. | If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they | lose those teeth. In Denmark and Southern Sweden, many of the rivers with trout farms on them have a run of steelhead, too. Certainly the Goeta Aelv (which runs through Gothenburg) did. We used to catch them occaionally in the stuary while trying for sea trout. They did not real harm: certainly a lot less than the greedy touristic masses of stocked, non-migratory fish. — Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682 | London, England                 | I’m not paid to have opinions |

Response:

Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Aren’t they spring spawners? If so then March would be pre spawn period. Anyways, it may be just possible that they are laying eggs but the habitat does not induce success. Would there be a clear creek for one of the lakes that they could run for spawning? What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

Steelhead are spring spawners by nature and will eventually revert back to spring spawning after several generations. This means most will run the rivers in the spring. But some run the rivers in the fall holding overwinter. The fall runners would probably feed on loose salmon eggs, insects, minnows. But during winter their metabolism is slow and would suspect they don’t feed much. In the sea they feed to grow but in the river they would feed to sustain energy spent. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

I doubt this especially if you have a healthy run of salmons. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

Same as a salmon but they probably would have a higher fry success rate than salmon. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Run, spawn, return. or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

No! This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns??  =8-(

Anything black works here, nymphs, wigglers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tight lines

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Hi! In the UK our experience with rainbows has, in the past, been largely limited to stillwaters (mostly reservoirs), which are stocked with hatchery reared fish at intervals. I understand, **though I may be completely wrong on this**, that two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported into this country a number of years ago but that insufficient care/understanding by breeders has lead to a thorough mixing of the two. What we have now, in nearly all stillwaters, are, as you can guess, pretty poor specimens which apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to the REAL thing. You can, however, still pick up obviously different fish which, presumeably, relate more closely to either of the wild types. Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this. In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across the table. Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are not small, running to several pounds. Completely different from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts. 2. What breeding conditions do they need? 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon? or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea? This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns??  =8-( Tight lines

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…two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported…

For *trout*, I believe most of Europe was stocked with "Eagle Lake" rainbow – a lake not far from Shasta in California, USA. For *steelhead*, I could only guess you have the Skamania steelhead from Washington State, USA.   It has been selected for transplant all over because of its suitability with hatchery operations (i.e. cheap and easy to raise). Trout and steelhead are different critters.   Trout are landlocked, and steelhead are typically sea-run, though if you landlock them, they’d probably do fine – the great lakes in the U.S. are an example where they do just fine, and make runs, the only difference is their ocean is freshwater. What we have now … apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE …

The U.S. was stocked primarly with two strains of brown trout from Europe.   Old timers said it was once possible to tell them apart. Now they too have interbred and don’t look quite like the real thing.   Still fun to catch though Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Rainbows and cutthroat are spring spawners. Steelhead spawn from fall to spring, depending on latitude.   I suspect you’re close to Oregon and Washington – winter (December) through spring (late April) spawning. Only guessing – stocking stillwaters isn’t too successful (spawning wise) for trout.    Most lakes for example in Oregon, were stocked with trout in the 1920’s, or there abouts, and require repeat stockings every few years.   Only those lakes with small creeks incoming, or gravel banks with lots of hydrodynamics, seem to maintain populations without stocking. Rivers however, trout stock fairly easily.   Ditto steelhead if they have a large body of stillwater and running water to run between. There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen …..

Wouldn’t surprise me. Some Atlantic Salmon were raised next to a coastal stream in Washington State – some accidently got into the river.   Recently, there have been reports of *large* Atlantic Salmon being caught.   I could imagine the Steelhead in Europe finally establishing themselves. What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

I don’t know the spawning period for Atlantics.   Read the article enclosed below – there will certainly be competition at some points in the life cycle.   BTW – Young steelhead (egg – alvein – parr – smolt) are aggressive feeders of anything while in fresh water, which is usually from 6 to 24 months, some 36 months. 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

Adult Steelhead only come into fresh water to spawn, and don’t feed much.   Also, unlike Atlantics, they don’t do as much repeat spawning. In a given run, maybe 35% are one time repeaters, 10% two time. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

For Steelhead, Very fast tailout water – 3 to 5 mph or up to 8 kph.  Small gravel in tributaries.   For early incoming steelhead, deep holding pools prior to the spawning season. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Yep, except more Atlantic repeat the process. 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

What’s a larder? know any good fly patterns??  =8-(

Many Atlantic Salmon patterns have been modified for Steelhead. Thomas Gilg FYI – From a back issue of our clubs newsletter:                 Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers Newsletter VOLUME X NO.5                                           May 1993 *** Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement *** Summarized and adapted by Frank Cochrane from ODF&W publication "An Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement" For a stream to produce large numbers of trout or salmon, the stream habitat must be in good condition.  This requires cold, clean water, food, and cover.  Most of Oregon’s streams have been degraded by man’s activities.  Therefore, the streams cannot support as many fish as they once could. Loss of spawning gravels, rearing areas, streamside vegetation, instream woody debris, and access to productive areas are some of the major results of man’s careless treatment of the aquatic environment. Many of those problems can be overcome in sections of some streams through habitat improvement projects.  The Conservation Committee is presently looking into possibilities for meaningful projects by the Mid Willamette Fly Fishers to improve the aquatic habitat in some of the nearby streams — and improve our fishing opportunities.  The material below gives an introduction to the basic principles of stream habitat improvement. The "Bottleneck Concept" If some limiting factor exists, a stream’s fish production is restricted or "bottlenecked".  Fish numbers are lower than optimum as a result.  Here are two examples:    o If spawning area is limited, spawning success is low.      Therefore, fish numbers are restricted by the small      number of eggs that hatch and develop into fry.    o If the rearing area is poor or the food supply is      inadequate, the fish become stunted or their numbers      are reduced.  Therefore, the mature fish are not      healthy, or there are not many mature fish. In either case, fish numbers cannot be increased until the stream habitat is improved and the bottleneck is reduced. It is important to understand what is limiting fish production in a particular situation so that efforts to increase the numbers of fish are not misdirected and wasted. What are common Habitat Problems?    o Water Quality.  Temperatures may be too high for trout      or salmon.  Various types of pollution may be having a      negative effect on fish and aquatic insect production.    o Barriers to Production Areas.  These may be either      natural, such as falls or log jams, or man- made, such      as dams and improperly installed culverts.    o Abused Riparian Zone.  Overgrazing, logging, road      building, and urban development often result in loss of      streamside vegetation.  Good plant growth along a      stream provides shade that helps keep water cool,      reduces erosion and silt loads, and contributes insects      to the fish food supply.    o Lack of Spawning Area.  Some streams lack suitable      spawning areas because of scouring by floods, channel      alterations from human activity, or the lack of proper      size gravels in the stream.    o Inadequate Juvenile Rearing Areas.  A mixture of      riffles and pools, undercut streambanks, side channels,      and instream boulders plus a certain amount of large      woody structures are necessary to provide juvenile fish      with an environment for survival and growth.    o Adult Holding Areas are Missing.  Adult fish need pools      for hiding and resting.  This is especially true for      some salmon and steelhead that return several months      before spawning.  Many streams lack sufficient holding      pools for adults. How to Conduct a Project to Improve Stream Habitat Each project to improve stream habitat requires individual consideration to tailor it to the need and the site.  The steps below are essential for a successful project.   1. Identify the Problem.  Before starting a project to      improve stream habitat, we need to find out where and      what is needed, with the help and guidance of ODF&W or      other fishery professionals.  Stream surveys must be      done to collect appropriate information, and the      results must be evaluated.  What are the bottlenecks?   2. Prescribe a Treatment.  We should determine what      actions can be taken to reduce the bottlenecks.   3. Treat the Bottlenecks.  The treatment prescribed above      is then carried out.   4. Evaluate the Results.  Is the treatment accomplishing      the desired result?  We should consider both short and      long term effects.  Are there more healthy fish in the      stream?  Are there lessor bottlenecks that need      treatment?   5. Maintain the Habitat Improvement.  Periodic inspection      and maintenance may be needed to ensure the retention      of any beneficial effect. It is sometimes tempting to get in too big of a hurry to do Steps 1, 4 and 5.  Let’s not fall into that trap! Look for more from the Conservation Committee in the near future concerning projects to improve stream habitat — and to improve fishing opportunities at the same time.

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