Question:

Hey Louie, How about a Labrador Clave in 2003?

I’ve been dreaming of going to Labrador for years now, and I have made unfirm plans to do it in 2002 or 2003 – need that long to save up the $3000 for a week. My goal was to fish for Arctic Char, the hell with the brook trout. but a clave? hmmm…. Flyfish

Response:

I’ve been dreaming of going to Labrador for years now, …

Me too, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I spend one, red US penny (that’s $49.95 Canadian) in a province that requires non-residents to have a guide. I don’t mind hiring a guide for a day or two or paying a rather substantial amount for a fishing license, but I’ll be damned if I’ll travel to fish somewhere where I can’t wet a line by myself. My goal was to fish for Arctic Char, the hell with the brook trout.

I suppose that’s because you live in Maine, but for me a 6 lb brookie would be a trophy of a lifetime. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Doesn’t  NFLD. require guides only for designated salmon waters, and not trout?? Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been dreaming of going to Labrador for years now, … Me too, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I spend one, red US penny (that’s $49.95 Canadian) in a province that requires non-residents to have a guide. I don’t mind hiring a guide for a day or two or paying a rather substantial amount for a fishing license, but I’ll be damned if I’ll travel to fish somewhere where I can’t wet a line by myself. My goal was to fish for Arctic Char, the hell with the brook trout. I suppose that’s because you live in Maine, but for me a 6 lb brookie would be a trophy of a lifetime. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Doesn’t  NFLD. require guides only for designated salmon waters, and not trout??

That sounds like New Brunswick. Newfoundland/Labrador requires guides for non-residents all the time and everywhere except right next to the highway on the Churchill River if I’m not mistaken. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Guys;   If Ken F. doesn’t like the "guide" idea–and I certainly agree–how about going to northern Quebec?. Same general area–just across the border–and Quebec doesn’t require "guides". I’m going to fish the Caniapisceau this summer–without guides. I’ve fished in Newfoundland with "guides"–and if you’ve ever flyfished there–you KNOW why I’ve put the word "guides" in quotes. The "guides" are simply "babysitters" so the sport won’t get lost. They do absolutely nothing that the word guide means to us. This is –to put it rather bluntly–a way to get foreigners to pay welfare for those "guides".    Dave M

Response:

Doesn’t  NFLD. require guides only for designated salmon waters, and not trout??

Here’s the (somewhat hard to find) URL, Tim; http://www.gov.nf.ca/forest/wildlife/licences/information.htm#Fishing To hell with the Newfies, I’ll never fish Labrador till these laws are changed, even at the risk of cutting my nose off to spite my face. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Talk about confusing regulations. I remembered something about being able to fish without a guide, but had forgotten about the part that limited you to within 800 m of a provincial highway. A number of years ago my wife and I had a pair of free airplane tickets. We comnsidered going to Nfld. to fish, but got turned off by the regulations. We went to Victoria instead. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doesn’t  NFLD. require guides only for designated salmon waters, and not trout?? Here’s the (somewhat hard to find) URL, Tim; http://www.gov.nf.ca/forest/wildlife/licences/information.htm#Fishing To hell with the Newfies, I’ll never fish Labrador till these laws are changed, even at the risk of cutting my nose off to spite my face. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Tim Lysyk: Doesn’t  NFLD. require guides only for designated salmon waters, and not trout??

Labrador (Canada?) requires 1 guide for every two people above a certain lattitude.  Having fished in Labrador for the past five years, I can understand why they would have that rule.  I sure as hell would not be on the Atikonak River without a guide, even though I know the river well.  You can fish in Labrador without a guide as long as you stay within a certain distance (a mile?) of a road.  Things change very quickly — water level, temperature, rain to snow.  In the five years I have been going to Labrador, I know of 6 or 7 deaths — folks that got into trouble when they were alone.   I would be willing to set up something, a mini clave if ya wanna call it that. It would have to be for only 8 people, and would cost about $2700 for a week, plus air fare. Most lodges/outfitters only have room and facilities for 8 rods.  I would stay away from eastern Labrador, areas near Happy Valley, and concentrate on places in the north, central, or northeast.  There are a number of lodges/outfitters in these areas, and fishing is wonderful, be it for brookies, arctic char (limited water), pike or lake trout. Land locked salmon are also available later in the season (late Aug-Sept), or very early in the season (June).   Air fare from Boston is about $600. But, you can drive to Lab City/Wabush (western Labrador) in two days from Boston.  You would take a float plane (Otter or Beaver) to fly from Wabush to the lodge.  That flight is usually included in the price of your stay. Dave

Response:

dnsmartel writes: If Ken F. doesn’t like the "guide" idea–and I certainly agree–how about going to northern Quebec?. Same general area–just across the border–and Quebec doesn’t require "guides". I’m going to fish the Caniapisceau this summer–without guides. I’ve fished in Newfoundland with "guides"–and if you’ve ever flyfished there–you KNOW why I’ve put the word "guides" in quotes. The "guides" are simply "babysitters" so the sport won’t get lost. They do absolutely nothing that the word guide means to us. This is –to put it rather bluntly–a way to get foreigners to pay welfare for those "guides".   Dave M

Not true of the Labrador guides I have used.  They are good boatsmen, outdoorsmen, and fishermen.  The difference between a good guide in Labrador and a bad one is the number of fish you catch.  Also, a good one will keep you out of trouble — one did just that with my grandson two years ago.  The water I fished was treacherous and even though I know that river very well (been going there for five years), I would not want to do it without a guide.   I believe you can fish in Canada below a certain lattitude without a guide. Friends of mine have done that and in the long run, they spent as much for food, gas, and air fare getting to their digs as I did going to a lodge with experienced guides.  And, I caught more and bigger fish.  Plus someone cooked for me, I had electricity, and indoor plumbing.  <g   Dave

Response:

dnsmartel writes: … This is –to put it rather bluntly–a way to get foreigners to pay welfare for those "guides". Not true of the Labrador guides I have used. …  Also, a good one will keep you out of trouble — one did just that with my grandson two years ago.  The water I fished was treacherous and even though I know that river very well (been going there for five years), I would not want to do it without a guide. …

Bah. Dave M is right Louie. The Newfoundland/Labrador non-resident guide laws are not on the books to protect decrepit geezers and young teenagers. They are on the books to inject out-of-province dollars into a moribund economy. I don’t mind the bucks, I’d gladly pay whatever the province wants to charge for the opportunity to fish, but I really resent having to have a guide. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I suppose that’s because you live in Maine, but for me a 6 lb brookie would be a trophy of a lifetime.

For me it would too. That said, as I understand it the Arctic Char is like a brook trout on steriods, kind of like the difference between a rainbow and a steelhead. I had a line on a set of camps that specialized in sea run char up there someplace, I’ll have to see if the guy comes back to the Maine Sportman’s show later this month as that was my intended trip Flyfish

Response:

It would have to be for only 8 people, and would cost about $2700 for a week, plus air fare. Air fare from Boston is about $600.

That’s probably a couple of years fishing expenses for me. Willi

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: Bah. Dave M is right Louie. The Newfoundland/Labrador non-resident guide laws are not on the books to protect decrepit geezers and young teenagers. They are on the books to inject out-of-province dollars into a moribund economy. I don’t mind the bucks, I’d gladly pay whatever the province wants to charge for the opportunity to fish, but I really resent having to have a guide. —

Oh, without a doubt it is to put dollars into the provincial cash register. Labrador is a very poor province.  But, even if it was legal to fish *without* a guide, I would still hire one.  So, now I’m a decrepit old geezer?  I love your liberal intolerance.   BTW, all the folks I know that died were young, healthy, fit, know-it-all fishermen.   Dave

Response:

… So, now I’m a decrepit old geezer?  …

Now ? What do you mean "now" ? You’ve been a decrepit geezer since the Johnson administration. <pregnant pause The ANDREW Johnson administration ! <rimshot Luv ya, Louie — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

BTW, all the folks I know that died were young, healthy, fit, know-it-all fishermen.

Dammit Louie!  I haven’t said anything in this thread so why are you bringing me into it?!?!?  I know you weren’t using the above to describe Ken, he hasn’t been young since the Nixon administration — Warren Findley

Response:

I hate to reiterate, but once again I think this is a key word issue.  The key word in Dave’s post was "know-it-all".  That compound word or phase, if you please, certainly wouldn’t fit in your case warren, at least not in a sarcastic sense.  Just MMHO. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, all the folks I know that died were young, healthy, fit, know-it-all fishermen. Dammit Louie!  I haven’t said anything in this thread so why are you bringing me into it?!?!?  I know you weren’t using the above to describe Ken, he hasn’t been young since the Nixon administration — Warren Findley

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: The ANDREW Johnson administration ! <rimshot Luv ya, Louie — Ken Fortenberry

I knew Andy, and you, sir, are not Andy. On a more serious note:  Each year when I returned to the Atikonak, I would hear stories about who got killed and how.  They were all Canadians, usually from Labrador.  They didn’t know  where they were going or what they were doing, and it cost them their lives.  You don’t have to be in your 60s with a couple of gimpy legs and no feeling in your feet to need a guide.  I understand your wanting to get away from it all and be on your own.  That’s fine in Maine, Michigan and Montana, but in Labrador it could get you killed.  Quickly. OG

Response:

  I understand your wanting to get away from it all and be on your own.  That’s fine in Maine, Michigan and Montana, but in Labrador it could get you killed.  Quickly. OG

The same goes for Lenoir, NC and most other major cities. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

I hate to reiterate, but once again I think this is a key word issue.  The key word in Dave’s post was "know-it-all".  That compound word or phase, if you please, certainly wouldn’t fit in your case warren, at least not in a sarcastic sense.  Just MMHO.

Well, Dave sure as hell wasn’t talking about Ken because he said "young".  Ken isn’t so as old as to be farting dust yet, but he isn’t a spring chicken either Hey Ken, preemptive SPLORK! <g — Warren Findley

Response:

  Dave;   Are you referring to Umiakovic Char Camp? That’s run by Harvey Calden–he also runs Tim Pond Camps in Eustis. I’ve seen the video’s and brochures–the fishing is suppossed to be unbelieveable for big sea-run char–but it’s a very pricey camp. Of course the price of a gal. of gas was over $17 dollars/gallon–two years ago before the prices went out of sight. I have no idea what aviation fuel costs that far up north now–but it’s got to be considerably more than $17 dollars/gallon.    Dave M

Response:

On a more serious note:  Each year when I returned to the Atikonak, I would hear stories about who got killed and how.  They were all Canadians, usually from Labrador.  They didn’t know  where they were going or what they were doing, and it cost them their lives.  You don’t have to be in your 60s with a couple of gimpy legs and no feeling in your feet to need a guide.  I understand your wanting to get away from it all and be on your own.  That’s fine in Maine, Michigan and Montana, but in Labrador it could get you killed.  Quickly. OG

Dave speaks the truth.  I doubt there’s any part of the lower 48 that resembles Canada’s North for true remoteness.  Just like in a remote area of the lower 48, fly over the lower half of Northern Ontario and you’ll see at least some signs of human presence, rail lines, roads, hydro towers, cottages, harbours, floatplane bases, microwave relays, airstrips, logging roads, fire towers,  trails, etc.  I have no fear of getting lost as a straight walk in any direction will have me bumping into something man-made sooner or later.  But Canada’s real north, NWT, Nunavut, Labrador, Yukon, – once you’re away from the cities and towns there’s absolutely nothing plus the landscape is incredibly rugged and unforgiving.  I went for a walk out from the camp in NWT and I realized as a trudged north that there was probably nothing man-made between me and the Arctic ocean, 130 miles away. Even just 15 minutes out of camp, one slip and I was done for – nobody would ever find me.  And don’t rely on our armed forces for rescue either – the crews are willing but the equipment is virtually non-existant. If you’re going to the real North – hire a guide.  If you don’t, your beneficiaries will thank you. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

… If you’re going to the real North – hire a guide.  If you don’t, your beneficiaries will thank you.

There’s nothing inherently dangerous about traveling the "real North" other than relying on Her Royal Majesties Cartographers. An experienced backcountry outdoorsman would have no problem whatsoever traveling, camping and fishing in Labrador. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

dang warren, they raised you in montana.  what do you want??? hee hee hee fishworship wayne

Response:

This evening the venerable old pirate and myself went to a local TU chapter fund raiser. We were supposed to be joined by another but he was too tired. We got to see A.K. Best talk about Labrador Brookies and char. Holy shit are there some big fish up there. There was shot after shot of big brookies decked out in some pretty spectacular colours. Then we saw some pretty awsome char at the end. One thing I did notice is all the rods in the pictures were cane. Not a single graphite in any of the photos. Then there was the raffle after the show. Unfortunatly neither one of us won the two night stay for two people at Lakewood Camps on the Rapid River  but we both came out ahead for the night. Hey Louie, How about a Labrador Clave in 2003? Paul

Response:

Hey Louie, How about a Labrador Clave in 2003?

Funny you should mention that, I have been telling my parents that is what I want for a graduation gift <g  Of course, they will probably buy a shit load of toys for my daughter instead. . . . — Warren Findley

Response:

Question:

You’re right  - I gave the thing a smack and it’s only -32 C! I’m strippin’ down! I’m in the ‘Peg – Ottawa is tropical in comparison Before you buy.

Response:

Still, -32 C is 32 degrees _below_ the freezing point of water. The only thing hatching at temperatures like that are icecubes? Herman, wondering if America is really _that_ different from Europe You’re right  - I gave the thing a smack and it’s only -32 C! I’m strippin’ down! I’m in the ‘Peg – Ottawa is tropical in comparison Before you buy.

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Yes, Herman!  Things are that different here in America.  We had a lovely *icecube* hatch last year on Upper Creek.  While the damn things are somewhat difficult to tie on a hook. The trout just love the different flavors, when you mix in a little KOOL-AID. — Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Still, -32 C is 32 degrees _below_ the freezing point of water. The only thing hatching at temperatures like that are icecubes? Herman, wondering if America is really _that_ different from Europe You’re right  - I gave the thing a smack and it’s only -32 C! I’m strippin’ down! I’m in the ‘Peg – Ottawa is tropical in comparison Before you buy. — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F. You sure your thermometer is working correctly?

Jeez, your supposed to be an engineer or computer geek or something – -40C is about -40F, it’s the point where the two systems meet. Having been in Winterpeg in the middle of January more than once and having lived in Ottawa, I’ll take the ‘Peg. Peter

Response:

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now.

-41 C?? Well in Fahrenheit that must be nearly… Lesse F = 9/5C + 32… That means -41C is minus fort–no wait, that can’t be right!! <g –Steve (pardon the math joke)

Response:

Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F.  You sure your thermometer is working correctly?

*Something’s* not working correctly, that’s for sure. HINT: Did you use a UNIX-based calculator to come up with that answer, Dave? –Steve

Response:

Jeez, your supposed to be an engineer or computer geek or something – -40C is about -40F, it’s the point where the two systems meet.

There are other aspects to 2nd childhoods than fast cars… <g — Charlie…

Response:

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F. You sure your thermometer is working correctly? Jeez, your supposed to be an engineer or computer geek or something –

A DEMOCRATIC engineer or computer geek or something – I’ll bet he stuffs his turkey through the neck (do with that what you will) <G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –40C is about -40F, it’s the point where the two systems meet.

Response:

–

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Sigh

Excuse my ignorance: what’s the Tricos? Chris Always willing to learn.

Response:

Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F.  You sure your thermometer is working correctly? *Something’s* not working correctly, that’s for sure. HINT: Did you use a UNIX-based calculator to come up with that answer, Dave? –Steve

Yikes – did I post that? To the Windows Calculator with 9/5C+32  and – ooops – there’s where I lost it, I never added the 32…Oh well… Goes to show that posting after drinking your way through "The Big Book Of Wine At That Really Expensive Restaurant" could be hazardous to your dignity. /daytripper (recovering slowly…)

Response:

Does it matter at that point?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F.  You sure your thermometer is working correctly?

Response:

Tricos are a little tiny mayfly. About a number 26. I tie them on a #24 hook but only dress the front half of the shank. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Sigh Excuse my ignorance: what’s the Tricos? Chris Always willing to learn.

Response:

Dignity?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F.  You sure your thermometer is working correctly? *Something’s* not working correctly, that’s for sure. HINT: Did you use a UNIX-based calculator to come up with that answer, Dave? –Steve Yikes – did I post that? To the Windows Calculator with 9/5C+32  and – ooops – there’s where I lost it, I never added the 32…Oh well… Goes to show that posting after drinking your way through "The Big Book Of Wine At That Really Expensive Restaurant" could be hazardous to your dignity. /daytripper (recovering slowly…)

Response:

Tricos are a little tiny mayfly. About a number 26. I tie them on a #24 hook but only dress the front half of the shank. Paul

    i thought they were a type of diptera.  or is that "diphteria"? wayno, a little weak on the entomology.

Response:

Tricos are a little tiny mayfly. About a number 26. I tie them on a #24 hook but only dress the front half of the shank. Paul    i thought they were a type of diptera.  or is that "diphteria"? wayno, a little weak on the entomology.

    wait, no; i meant "diptheria". wayno, just plain weak – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I thought diphtheria is a disease. Diptera is the true fly family of which midges are a member. Tricorythodes is a genus of mayfly (Ephemeroptera).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tricos are a little tiny mayfly. About a number 26. I tie them on a #24 hook but only dress the front half of the shank. Paul    i thought they were a type of diptera.  or is that "diphteria"? wayno, a little weak on the entomology.     wait, no; i meant "diptheria". wayno, just plain weak

Response:

"Brian D. Nelson" wrote I thought diphtheria is a disease. Diptera is the true fly family of which midges are a member. Tricorythodes is a genus of mayfly (Ephemeroptera).

Diphtheria is a disease, just like flyfishing. Ernie

Response:

Diphtheria is a disease, just like flyfishing. Ernie

Then I hope I don’t catch it (the diphtheria, that is) because, like flyfishing, there is no cure (except to go fishing, of course!). — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Diptera = two wings. Usually the critters that bite, or if not look too much like those not to swat them. Grammatical codswallop, but I guess you get the point. Herman Shit, I think I inhaled.. Tricos are a little tiny mayfly. About a number 26. I tie them on a #24 hook but only dress the front half of the shank. Paul     i thought they were a type of diptera.  or is that "diphteria"? wayno, a little weak on the entomology.

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman,   The trico is closely related to a British insect called the Treacle (look up the taxonomy, but as you can tell by the name, they are closely related).  Though both are often mentioned in Winter settings, but at -40 Centigrade or Fahrenheit, they bear a striking similarity, i.e. they don’t move a whole bunch.              Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, Herman!  Things are that different here in America.  We had a lovely *icecube* hatch last year on Upper Creek.  While the damn things are somewhat difficult to tie on a hook. The trout just love the different flavors, when you mix in a little KOOL-AID. — Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** Still, -32 C is 32 degrees _below_ the freezing point of water. The only thing hatching at temperatures like that are icecubes? Herman, wondering if America is really _that_ different from Europe You’re right  - I gave the thing a smack and it’s only -32 C! I’m strippin’ down! I’m in the ‘Peg – Ottawa is tropical in comparison Before you buy. — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Before you buy.

Response:

That’s my kind of insect.. I don’t move much at -40 C either. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herman,   The trico is closely related to a British insect called the Treacle (look up the taxonomy, but as you can tell by the name, they are closely related).  Though both are often mentioned in Winter settings, but at -40 Centigrade or Fahrenheit, they bear a striking similarity, i.e. they don’t move a whole bunch.              Frank

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but here in Montana, Tricos hatch in August, not wintertime. Fill me in on the Treacle. I’ve never heard of it and cannot tell by the name that they are closely related (other than the "Tr").

Herman,   The trico is closely related to a British insect called the Treacle (look up the taxonomy, but as you can tell by the name, they are closely related).  Though both are often mentioned in Winter settings, but at -40 Centigrade or Fahrenheit, they bear a striking similarity, i.e. they don’t move a whole bunch.              Frank

– Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

That’s my kind of insect.. I don’t move much at -40 C either.

I experienced -40 one time…actually it was -44 F.  At that temperature you had BETTER keep moving!  Trust me on this one.       Wolfgang digging out from under 13" of new snow this morning

Response:

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now. Sigh Before you buy.

Response:

Just checked the thermometer and its -41 C. The Tricos should be coming off any day now.

Ottawa can get pretty cold indeed, but -41C is like -70F.  You sure your thermometer is working correctly?

Response:

Question:

You said it twice, so, I can only guess that was a sincere *response*. Opie  **Hurt in Lenoir!**         isn’t that the town that inspired the famous axiom, to wit: "if you’re found here at night, you’ll be found here in the morning"? or was that "you can’t go home again"?         no, wait:  "stuck inside of lenoir with the ashville blues again"…ah, hell, forget it.

I knew a guy named Emil Lenoir many years ago.  Once told me that he bought a twelve year old Tuareg girl when he was in the foreign legion in Morocco.  Not sure what the connection is here. Wolfgang who has been to Lodi, WI but managed to escape

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang who has been to Lodi, WI but managed to escape         in the inimitable style of ol forty himself:  not to put too fine a line on it, or some similar shit, but wasn’t creedence clearwater making reference to lodi, california? anally retentively yours, wayno

No, no, NO!  What DO they teach in the schools these days?  Leopold squeezed the Congo with an iron hand from Belgium, WI. Hitler wrought havoc on the entire European continent (not to mention a whole heap of gypsies and other undesirables) from Berlin, WI.  Friday night witch frys are a lovely old tradition in Salem, WI.  And why on Earth would anyone suppose that an immensely popular rock band would sing a song about some nothing little burg in California?  And don’t even get me started on what goes on in Oconomowoc!! Wolfgang geographer nonpareil         p.s.:  and isn’t this just the kind of question that answers the question, "what the hell does wayno *do* all the time…

the answer IS the question grasshopper

Response:

…. wilson’s is always good…. Sure!  Never took ME there, sumbitch! Wolfgang who has created a monster.  Becky wants to go backpacking on the AT in NC in April.  Wanna go fishin Waldo?    :)

sure as shit i’ll go afishin’ with ya….. but *not* on wilsons <g walt

Response:

You said it twice, so, I can only guess that was a sincere *response*. Opie  **Hurt in Lenoir!**

        isn’t that the town that inspired the famous axiom, to wit: "if you’re found here at night, you’ll be found here in the morning"? or was that "you can’t go home again"?         no, wait:  "stuck inside of lenoir with the ashville blues again"…ah, hell, forget it.         wayno

Response:

Wolfgang who has been to Lodi, WI but managed to escape

        in the inimitable style of ol forty himself:  not to put too fine a line on it, or some similar shit, but wasn’t creedence clearwater making reference to lodi, california? anally retentively yours, wayno         p.s.:  and isn’t this just the kind of question that answers the question, "what the hell does wayno *do* all the time…

Response:

This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. …

FIVE people fishing Wilson’s at the same time ? Sounds crowded. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. … FIVE people fishing Wilson’s at the same time ? Sounds crowded.

lol’s…. walt (couldn’t really call them drsob’s, at least when they’re not present)

Response:

Now looka here Walt, I don’t mind a little embelishment of detail to make a good story, but *nobody* will believe *that* introduction. It was a fun trip, though.  Wish I could remember what Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC Please don’t tell my mother that I hang out at ROFF; she thinks I play piano at a whorehouse.                                              Author’s name withheld This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller.

Response:

This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller.

<sniped I don’t know about anybody else, but the writing here is a good as the articles I read in my fly fishing magazines and I really like the annual subscription rate…

Response:

‘preciate the invite Walt! Opie  **No LDB’s in Walt’s future from me!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. Tom stayed here at my home and Jeff stayed down at his cabin, the only roughing-it, aside from the stream, was cooking those big 16 ounce rib eyes on the grill friday evening. Saturday morning we headed out to Wilson’s Creek after stops at the flyshop and the grocery store for sandwiches and beer. We arrived at the trail head, rigged up, grabbed a walking brew, and headed down the trail to meet the stream. No encounters of the snake kind, a uneventful 30 minute hike. The stream was absolutely gorgeous. The water was running high and clear from the recent rains we have been enjoying here in the mountains. The usual rainbow in the first pool rejected my initial proffering, par for the course, I think he enjoys teasing me. We fished upstream with the usual ahhhs and reflections that a beautiful day on the water inspires deep within. Initially, the fishing was slow as we moved up. We each caught a fish or two with some misses. I was fishing a black beetle but switched to an adams para b/c in my haste to leave the house, I had forgotten my sunglasses and a low riding black meniscus beetle is tough to keep track of even with glasses. Both Tom & Jeff were fishing visible flies and the switchover made sense. We fished up through the timeless granite pools, each taking his turn, each watching the waters with anticipation of the next strike. We arrived at the junction of Little Wilsons and Jeff headed solo up that tiny water…. water that is infested with little feisty brownies in the 5 to 10 inch range. Tom and I continued up Wilson’s and it was like night and day. Whereas the fishing was somewhat slow before, we were now catching fish in nearly every pool or riffle, I think we even had a three fish pool, which is an accomplishment on these waters. On this day, I encountered a knot failure. I lost a fly in a rhodo when the line broke at the clinch knot. I usually don’t suffer that failure, the knot is a good one and I’ve been using it as long as I can remember. It’s usually my wind knot that fails. The secret to a good clinch is 5 turns, through the loops, wet with spittle, and gently cinch down by holding the fly in one hand and the tippet in the other, don’t tighten by pulling on the tag end of the tippet. Also, I believe that tippet needs to be similar in size to the eye of the hook for a clinch to perform properly. A size 6 wooly bugger on 6x will break at the knot….. just my experience. Anyway, Jeff, after much success on ‘lil wilsons, pulled out into a camp of beer-swillin, pig-lovin, banjo-playin rednecks. That must have been a sight. He hiked back to the truck and was kind enough to drive it up to where Tom & I would be pulling out so we would not suffer those gross indignities <g. It was great to see Jeff’s truck when we pulled out. The last 1/2 mile of river all I heard from Tom was "where’s the beer!" We lounged a bit enjoyin’ a beer or two, ate our lunches, and Jeff and I headed back up Wilson’s, leaving Tom with the beer. I think it made Jeff’s day when he caught one more fish than I on this side trip…. he being such a competitive cuss. Great day, great fish, and greater companions…… thanks guys, I needed it. Walt

Response:

I never saw that original post, thanks for the report, have been wondering about fishing Wilson’s sometime soon  Would you say the fishing generally stays good between now and, say, October?  Thanks, This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. Tom stayed here at my home and Jeff stayed down at his cabin, the only roughing-it, aside from the stream, was cooking those big 16 ounce rib eyes on the grill friday evening. Saturday morning we headed out to Wilson’s Creek

Regards, Jeff

Response:

I never saw that original post, thanks for the report, have been wondering about fishing Wilson’s sometime soon  Would you say the fishing generally stays good between now and, say, October?  Thanks,

that’s whaccha get fer killfilin’ me <g sure jeff…. wilson’s is always good…. walt

Response:

‘preciate the invite Walt! Opie  **No LDB’s in Walt’s future from me!**

not my fault op. i swear, it was jeff’s fault. he was in charge of the invites… ldb’s…. shoot, i think we drank a bunch of them <g walt

Response:

You said it twice, so, I can only guess that was a sincere *response*. Opie  **Hurt in Lenoir!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘preciate the invite Walt! Opie  **No LDB’s in Walt’s future from me!** not my fault op. i swear, it was jeff’s fault. he was in charge of the invites… ldb’s…. shoot, i think we drank a bunch of them <g walt

Response:

…. wilson’s is always good….

Sure!  Never took ME there, sumbitch! Wolfgang who has created a monster.  Becky wants to go backpacking on the AT in NC in April.  Wanna go fishin Waldo?    :)

Response:

This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. <sniped I don’t know about anybody else, but the writing here is a good as the articles I read in my fly fishing magazines and I really like the annual subscription rate…

Amen!  An English professor I knew in college was fond of saying that writing is the most difficult work that man has ever created for himself.  He never read this news group.  Never have so many made it look so easy. Wolfgang waiting for the day when some ambitious soul collects it all and turns it into a novel

Response:

This past weekend I was visited by two gracious Southern gentlemen, Tom Brown and Jeff Miller. Tom stayed here at my home and Jeff stayed down at his cabin, the only roughing-it, aside from the stream, was cooking those big 16 ounce rib eyes on the grill friday evening. Saturday morning we headed out to Wilson’s Creek after stops at the flyshop and the grocery store for sandwiches and beer. We arrived at the trail head, rigged up, grabbed a walking brew, and headed down the trail to meet the stream. No encounters of the snake kind, a uneventful 30 minute hike. The stream was absolutely gorgeous. The water was running high and clear from the recent rains we have been enjoying here in the mountains. The usual rainbow in the first pool rejected my initial proffering, par for the course, I think he enjoys teasing me. We fished upstream with the usual ahhhs and reflections that a beautiful day on the water inspires deep within. Initially, the fishing was slow as we moved up. We each caught a fish or two with some misses. I was fishing a black beetle but switched to an adams para b/c in my haste to leave the house, I had forgotten my sunglasses and a low riding black meniscus beetle is tough to keep track of even with glasses. Both Tom & Jeff were fishing visible flies and the switchover made sense. We fished up through the timeless granite pools, each taking his turn, each watching the waters with anticipation of the next strike. We arrived at the junction of Little Wilsons and Jeff headed solo up that tiny water…. water that is infested with little feisty brownies in the 5 to 10 inch range. Tom and I continued up Wilson’s and it was like night and day. Whereas the fishing was somewhat slow before, we were now catching fish in nearly every pool or riffle, I think we even had a three fish pool, which is an accomplishment on these waters. On this day, I encountered a knot failure. I lost a fly in a rhodo when the line broke at the clinch knot. I usually don’t suffer that failure, the knot is a good one and I’ve been using it as long as I can remember. It’s usually my wind knot that fails. The secret to a good clinch is 5 turns, through the loops, wet with spittle, and gently cinch down by holding the fly in one hand and the tippet in the other, don’t tighten by pulling on the tag end of the tippet. Also, I believe that tippet needs to be similar in size to the eye of the hook for a clinch to perform properly. A size 6 wooly bugger on 6x will break at the knot….. just my experience. Anyway, Jeff, after much success on ‘lil wilsons, pulled out into a camp of beer-swillin, pig-lovin, banjo-playin rednecks. That must have been a sight. He hiked back to the truck and was kind enough to drive it up to where Tom & I would be pulling out so we would not suffer those gross indignities <g. It was great to see Jeff’s truck when we pulled out. The last 1/2 mile of river all I heard from Tom was "where’s the beer!" We lounged a bit enjoyin’ a beer or two, ate our lunches, and Jeff and I headed back up Wilson’s, leaving Tom with the beer. I think it made Jeff’s day when he caught one more fish than I on this side trip…. he being such a competitive cuss. Great day, great fish, and greater companions…… thanks guys, I needed it. Walt

Response:

Question:

I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana. What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all.

I got a bucks bronco.  Reasons why: a. Stainless steel frame b. adjustable foot pegs (especially important if you are going to run moving water or are taller or shorter than the mythical "average") Things I don’t like: a. LOTS of places for your line to snag, especially when casting across your body (which you will do if you use it on a lake in the wind and don’t anchor) New developments: a. They just came out with a 10 foot pontoon. I wasn’t overly impressed with the "all metal back deck" available on some of the boats on the market.  Other than that There aren’t many "features" that vary between boats.  Most are rocker designs, have a seat, oarlocks, and a stripping apron.

Response:

I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana.   (Bitteroot, Blackfoot, Clark Fork).  There is some sizable water here and I’m looking for advice from someone experienced with the small craft.  I’m looking for a pontoon style, but curious to know what is best…8′, 9′, or bigger.  What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all. Thanks, Tom

Response:

I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana. What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all.

I’ve used the Bucks Bronco and like the newer models a lot.  I own a JW Outfitters Voyager and it is one tough boat that can handle Class III water with ease.

Response:

I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana. (Bitteroot, Blackfoot, Clark Fork).  There is some sizable water here and I’m looking for advice from someone experienced with the small craft.  I’m looking for a pontoon style, but curious to know what is best…8′, 9′, or bigger.  What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all. Thanks, Tom

Tom: I also have a Buck’s Bronco and also bought it partly because of the stainless frame.  My *only* minor complaint is the ratchet mechanism for the anchor.  Either mine doesn’t operate correctly or I’ve never figured out how to use it right.  It really doesn’t drop the anchor very easily. Other than that, I love the thing.  I’ve used it on streams here in Utah as well as Idaho & Wyoming and it’s great.  It has 8′ pontoons and I’ve had it on the Green, the Snake, and the South Fork, all pretty good-sized streams. I always wear a life vest, partly because I’m still not that experienced a boatman.  My dream is to take it on a camping float in Alaska. Good storage capacity, easy to inflate & deflate, sturdy and well-built.  If I deflate it about 3/4 of the way, it will slide fully-assembled right in the back of my SUV so carrying it is a breeze.  It really doesn’t even take long at all to figure out the rowing/kicking/maneuvering. I would say that you will occasionally find yourself pointed a different direction from where you want to cast (I do, anyway), but that can be part of the fun. Bob Bob

Response:

Look into the Outcast PAC line. The 8′ and 10′ are great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana.   (Bitteroot, Blackfoot, Clark Fork).  There is some sizable water here and I’m looking for advice from someone experienced with the small craft.  I’m looking for a pontoon style, but curious to know what is best…8′, 9′, or bigger.  What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all. Thanks, Tom

Response:

I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana.   (Bitteroot, Blackfoot, Clark Fork).  There is some sizable water here and I’m looking for advice from someone experienced with the small craft.  I’m looking for a pontoon style, but curious to know what is best…8′, 9′, or bigger.  What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all. Thanks, Tom

Tom:  I’ve used the Buck’s Bag Bronco and Southfork models on the Clark Fork and Bitteroot, and they have been great, although other brands no doubt will to the job.  They have 7ft pontoons, I think (haven’t measured).  Have taken them through some pretty rough water as well. Never felt the need for an anchor or a stripping apron, although the rear deck is perfect for a cooler.  Have fun – you will love it. Mark Faulkner

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I,m interested in purchasing a kickboat for fly fishing the rivers of western Montana. What are features you can’t live without and what are the features that aren’t used or needed at all. I got a bucks bronco.  Reasons why: a. Stainless steel frame b. adjustable foot pegs (especially important if you are going to run moving water or are taller or shorter than the mythical "average") Things I don’t like: a. LOTS of places for your line to snag, especially when casting across your body (which you will do if you use it on a lake in the wind and don’t anchor) New developments: a. They just came out with a 10 foot pontoon. I wasn’t overly impressed with the "all metal back deck" available on some of the boats on the market.  Other than that There aren’t many "features" that vary between boats.  Most are rocker designs, have a seat, oarlocks, and a stripping apron.

I have a Yukon 2, by Leigh outdoor, and I work there as a part time job.  All of Leighs pontoon boats are made out of aluminum. (no rust) They tend to not be as heavy and are very strong.  We had a guy who came in who wanted one to run white water, he said he liked to fish on the side.  He ran it on the portion of the Snake below Jackson, and loved it.  I guess he ran that stretch 4 times in one day with it.  When he came back in he said that he tried to tip it over on "lunchcounter" or whichever one where the river narrows and is forced between two rock outcroppings. (its really big)  I guess he tried to go through side ways and front ways but to no avail so on the last try he through all of his weight backward and practically stood up on the foot pegs to get it to go over.  He claims he never had so much fun in his life.  It is a very sturdy boat.  Leigh makes a 10 footer for long trips as well.  It is the "gallatin".  The Yukon’s and Green river models are good for up to 3 day trips if you pack right. and are just fine for the 3 or 4 hour trip as well.  They pack down into a space of about 2 1/2 feet by 3 1/2 feet.  You can easily transport 2 in the trunk of a small car.  The unique thing is that the pontoons have a heavy inner tube in them.  (like a truck tube)  and are very durable.  All models have adjustable foot pegs that allows both big and small to be comfortable.  All the paint is powder coated on.   Not to bash other manufacturers but we have had so many calls about a certain manufacturers frames rusting out that our product designer at one time was thinking of making a frame that would fit on the competitors pontoons, but has since decided against doing so.  You don’t want a frame that has the potential to rust on you. Leigh frames carry a lifetime warrenty and are the only Coast Guard Certified pontoon boat that I know of.  They have many models to choose from and all the extra’s you can imagine.  Just find one that suited most to your needs.  If there is ever a problem you can call them and they will go to great lengths to see that you are pleased. When there is a problem and you have an upcomming trip, if they can’t fix it in time they will send you a loaner boat to get you through, until they can get your boat fixed up. Of course I’m not prejudice, I just work there.   They have a site but not all of their boats are listed, but you can call them and they will send you a catalog or tell you where the nearest supplier is or you can E-mail me and I’ll make sure you get a catalog. or http://www.b-mktg.com/leighhp/leighhp.htm or Leigh Outdoor Products 62 S. 950 W.  Brigham City UT 84302 1-435-734-0750 I hope you find the best boat for you. Shaun

Response:

Question:

Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

Response:

Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

Hi Brian, This is a good time to book a guide for next spring. April/May/June is prime time. All the top guides have tackle for the day(s) you are with them. If you want to wade or rent a boat on your own then you need some tackle. I would call West and if he doesn’t have any days left he will know some other high quality guides in the Keys. He is considered in the top of his field and is also lots of fun to fish with. You can see him in the Billy Pate Tarpon fishing videos. As you can tell he is one of my heros.  . Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht.

by me at lunch.  er, sorry, you might make it for dinner.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht. by me at lunch.  er, sorry, you might make it for dinner.

So what do you do once you exit your cool A/C bus? Turn on your portable, battery-powered air-conditioner, or rent a luxury limousine to drive you around? Most of the Thais survive the non-AC buses. You will too… – Fabian

Response:

There was once a ferry, during the dry season, from Satun town to Langkawi. No need to go to Penang first. Only way to know if the ferry will operate this December is to simply go to Satun town and ask about it. There are many local travelers, so my guess is yes, it will operate. For a ride from Hat Yai to Satun town, ask any "tuk tuk" driver in Had Yai. He will know not only about the public buses, but also about the small and private mini-vans which ferry local Thai office workers between Had Yai and Satun town during the rush hours each day. Foreigners are welcome on this mini-vans. Note that this is an "international" ferry crossing. Passports will be checked at a small island about halfway between Satun and Langkawi, and the small ship will be inspected. The islands in the area are fantastic. Small boats to the islands on the Thai side of the border leave mostly from a small fishing village called Pak Bara. — George Moore http://www.slip.net/~georgem – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht. From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Question:

I think Steve W asked about, or commented on weighting the bow for better tracking. The weight I use is the deep cycle battery, which weighs almost 70 lbs. That’s a lot of weight, more than most folks think of using, but it’s worked great. Bill Mack askedWhat did you do for the long connection from the fron of the boat to the motor?<< I used thick wire and connectors available from auto supply stores. Use at least 10 ga for 12 volt connections, I use 6 ga so I can use it with my 24 volt 70 lb thrust motor for real fast flowing water. Two deep cycle batteries up forward REALLY stabilize it. Hope this helps, sorry for the delay in replying. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI

Response:

I am looking for an canoe/boat with a square stern for mounting an electric trolling motor and some type of keel that would allow it to track upstream in a moderate current without the bow being swept around to the rear by the current. Specifically I would be using this in the Muskegon River (in case some may be familiar). I have tried this unsuccessfully with a 17′ fiberglass canoe (with a side mounted motor near the stern & without a keel). My electric motor is equal to a 3 hp gas. Anybody out there have any suggestions? CowboyMI – Steven W. There never was a horse that couldn’t be rode, nor a Cowboy that couldn’t be throwed….

Response:

Steve W wrote I have tried this unsuccessfully with a 17′ fiberglass canoe (with a side mounted motor near the stern & without a keel). My electric motor is equal to a 3 hp gas.<< I use a 14′ fiberglass canoe in a similar situation, and sometimes even rivers flowing briskly. My electric motor is only 36 lbs of thrust (about 2.2hp). Had problems until I put weight in the bow (put the deep cycle battery up there) after which tracking true against the current became much easier. It also stabilized the canoe much better for fly casting. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI

Response:

PatKapsner wroteI use a 14′ fiberglass canoe in a similar situation, and sometimes even rivers flowing briskly. My electric motor is only 36 lbs

of thrust (about 2.2hp). Had problems until I put weight in the bow (put the deep cycle battery up there) after which tracking true against the current became much easier. It also stabilized the canoe much better for fly casting.

I have tried putting ballast in the bow of my 17′, tried many rocks & later 2 five gallon jugs full of water. It helped some but, I still had the problem with the bow swinging around when I ran into some faster currents. My electric motor has 52 lbs thrust. Perhaps it is the extra length & weight of mine that makes it harder to handle? Is your motor mounted on a square stern or on the side near the back? CowboyMI – Steven W. There never was a horse that couldn’t be rode, nor a Cowboy that couldn’t be throwed….

Response:

Steve:  Try a Coleman Crawdad…square stern, takes either a 2.2 hp or an electric, goes upstream well, damn near indestructible.  I love mine…costs about $800.00 Canadian, and you can get them at Canadian Tire, Walmart, etc.  They’ve got a nice smooth trot and always move on the right lead…Good fishing… Jim Ward Twin Willow Farm Home of good horses, fine whiskey and great wild trout

Response:

You might want to loo at the Mad River Missiquoi, it fits your requirements. However MDRs are expensive, but you get what you pay for. I have a MDR Winooski and love it. It is the same as the Missiquoi without the square stern. I use extensively for fly fishing in South Florida. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am looking for an canoe/boat with a square stern for mounting an electric trolling motor and some type of keel that would allow it to track upstream in a moderate current without the bow being swept around to the rear by the current. Specifically I would be using this in the Muskegon River (in case some may be familiar). I have tried this unsuccessfully with a 17′ fiberglass canoe (with a side mounted motor near the stern & without a keel). My electric motor is equal to a 3 hp gas. Anybody out there have any suggestions? CowboyMI – Steven W. There never was a horse that couldn’t be rode, nor a Cowboy that couldn’t be throwed….

Response:

: PatKapsner wrote : (about 2.2hp). Had problems until I put weight in the bow (put : the deep cycle : battery up there) after which tracking true against the current became : much easier. It also stabilized the canoe much better for fly casting. : I have tried putting ballast in the bow of my 17′, tried many rocks & : later 2 five gallon jugs full of water. A couple of things. First, your motor is probably just on the edge of being able to push your canoe up the current. With this, adding "ballast" to the front will bring the front down, but it also makes more total weight for the motor (already struggling) to push. Moving the battery up front (thus not adding *more* ballast) may help this. You still might have problems, though. I used to bass fish from a 12′ canoe, and kept the battery up front. Worked beautifully, but I was on still water. Second, is your canoe keeled? Keeled canoes track better, but in your case maybe the keel catches the current quicker. I don’t know, just wondering. Length certainly does matter for turning the bow, so yeah, your little motor is struggling to turn it in this situation. I don’t think stern mount vs. side mount makes much difference, when you’re talking about your 17′er. My tip: pull out a paddle, kneel down a little forward of your rear seat so you can wield the paddle around the middle of the side of the canoe, and help the motor out. With the paddle you can easily keep the bow in place, heading up the current. Assuming you’ve canoed a bit, you know all the push, pull, J strokes you can do to quickly right the direction of the canoe. Try it, I think you’ll get through the fast sections with ease. JonCook.

Response:

Steve W wrote I have tried this unsuccessfully with a 17′ fiberglass canoe (with a side mounted motor near the stern & without a keel). My electric motor is equal to a 3 hp gas.<< I use a 14′ fiberglass canoe in a similar situation, and sometimes even rivers flowing briskly. My electric motor is only 36 lbs of thrust (about 2.2hp). Had problems until I put weight in the bow (put the deep cycle battery up there) after which tracking true against the current became much easier. It also stabilized the canoe much better for fly casting. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI

What did you do for the long connection from the fron of the boat to the motor?  Bill Mack

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

No, but there’s a river in Toldedo Spain that looked kind of "troutish"In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

Try contacting Cantabrian Travel Ltd. 220 NActon Road, Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 9JN Tel 01473 71743 Fax 01473 272571 The proprietor arranges holiday accomodation in Spain and fishing permits.  He appears to be a fly fisherman and seems to know a bit about it, he suggested that for when we are going the permit would be a waste of time and money as the rivers would be very low so seems to know his stuff – and is an honest travel agent ;-o

Response:

Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

Question:

The Gila River and tributaries within the Gila National Forest has about two hundred miles of stream that contain Gila trout and Gila-rainbow highbreds. About 45 miles of these are now considered pure Gila trout and are protected. If this population can be expanded and stabilized Gila trout may soon be down listed and fishing allowed in the future. In the mean time one can fish for Gila-rainbow highbreds in many streams. Brown trout are found in several streams and brook trout in Whitewater Creek and South Fork Whitewater Creek. Smallmouth are found in the Mainstream, East Fork, Middle Fork, and Beaver Creek. Almost all of the good flyfishing is found in the wildness and requires hiking. Ron

Response:

information on the locations of gila trout are in the nm fishing regulations as restricted waters.  the u.s. fish and wildlife are listed as saving these trout during the forest fire season and may provide referrences.

Response:

First a note:  How do I get the text of the post I’m responding to included?  Everyone else does it, and all I ever get is a blank screen for my post.  Makes it harder to peg in my reply for the casual reader. Anyhow, I can only say a little about the Gila trout, and that indirectly.  Earlier this week, I attended and testified at a hearing (in Socorro, NM) about the reintroduction of the Mexican wolf.  On that occasion, I had the "opportunity" to hear the positions of a variety of New Mexican cattle ranchers from that area.  And there were aspersions cast on the trout, as another gosh darn way people interfere with ranchers (the ONLY people who actually *work* for a living — everyone else is on "welfare", including but not limited to government employees, corporate employees and anyone involved in education).  Not a comment that gives you much of an answer, but at least you know somebody’s out there, reading your post… BTW, I think that reintroduction of the wolves would be good for trout, a la Leopold’s "Thinking Like a Mountain".  Vegetation is GOOD for watersheds, hydrological regimes, water quality, etc. etc.  When you "think like a mountain", you get nervous about ways of doing things that denude the countryside.   E.

Response:

Question:

: Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle : of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe : the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and : pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle : catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d : appreciate hearing. Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. William Buchman …I’m confused

Yes you may be. Sierra Tackle went out of business about twenty years ago but Ned continued doing business under Cutthroat Hook Company until he was too ill to operate it. Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

Response:

Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing.  Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. Cliff Wyatt ran the Wilderness Shoppe in Santa Monics.  I think that it preceded Ned Grey’s.  Even so, I would be surprised if even Wyatt was first. William Buchman

Response:

: Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle : of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe : the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and : pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle : catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d : appreciate hearing. Sean, I’m sorry to tell you that Ned passed away about six years ago after a long battle with emphysema. Ned was an inspiration over the years to many flyfishers and his inovative patterns and techniques were passed on Ken Lindsey  Ned Grey died almost 20 years ago and his stock was bought up. William Buchman …I’m confused

Response:

I live in La Crescenta, just up the hill from Montrose. I used to drive to Ned’s shop when I lived out in Canoga Park.  And then, after I moved to La Crescenta, Ned closed his shop (I don’t think I drove him to it!) I do not know if he opened another shop or not. Rick

Response:

Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing. Thanks Sean Barry

Sean,  I’m sorry to tell you that Ned passed away about six years ago after a long battle with Emphezima(spell?). Ned was an inspiration over the years to many flyfishers and his inovative patterns and techniques were passed on with an enthusiasm for the sport that was infectious.  Ned got me started in saltwater fly rodding in 1972 and I still treasure one of his early Calico bass patterns that was tossed across the counter with the admonition " don’t worry what kind of tackle you have just throw that son of a bitch out there and see what eats it."  I did and they ate it and I thank Ned for introducing me to a whole new spectrum of our sport. Ned was truly a pioneer of the sport and I feel privaliged to have known him. Tight Lines, Ken  Lindsay FLy Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

Response:

Anybody know what ever happened to Ned Grey and Ned Grey’s Sierra Tackle of Montrose, California?  Ned’s was one of the early fly shops, maybe the first in southern California.  He invented the Streaker SW fly and pioneered saltwater flyfishing in SoCal.  I last saw Sierra Tackle catalogue in about 1974, I think.  If anybody has some information, I’d appreciate hearing. Thanks Sean Barry

Response: