Question:

Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Next time I’m out with my Force Fins, I’ll just have the water skier hold the GPS for me.  That way I can watch where I’m going bruce h

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I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun. Thanks much, Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Fix underscore in address to reply

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Thanks Bill, I’ve become accustomed to fishing without boots – just using a neoprene booty which is pretty comfortable for long days on the lake.   In an another post "Bruiser" indicated originals fit better for this application than the adjustables? Although it isn’t often, I have had occassions where it would have been an advantage to be wearing boots – so I’m wondering if the adjustable model is just for boots or is it as comfortable as the original without boots?  And of course, is there enough slack in the adjustment to accomodate both modes? Thanks for your time, – Dick

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I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun.

Don’t hold your breath. It’ll be some time before I can do tube time trials with my Force Fins… fwiw, though, I don’t think the Force Fins are all that special wrt to making good time, but they’re the only fins I’ve ever owned that I can walk *forward* in while wearing a tube without inevitably doing a face plant. They’re definitely worth it for that, though there is that risk of a tether failure losing one to the deep… /daytripper (T-13 Hours)

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I cant remember exactly when it was…maybe around 1990, the maker of force fins was in the process of developing fins that float.  I haven’t shopped for much fishing gear in last few years so I’m not sure if there are any on the market Go Oregon Ducks…The  Big Green Scoring Machine

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I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.     I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

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I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.

    I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

Response:

Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Yeah. That’ll happen.

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Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas

…  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Fix underscore in address to reply

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   good vibes to you

As long as they’re not in the doc’s hands. <g Good luck DT. — Charlie…

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Hello All, I use to do lots of float tubing but in the last decade I have done more fishing from small boats. Last spring, I took my wife out for her first time ever float tubing. We were both in fairly similar V-boats but I gave her the Force Fins($100) and I had a pair of Caddis fins($40). I felt with our difference in "horse power" that it would be about an equal race. Well, I could never keep up with her and I tried so hard to catch her I almost killed myself. I was "steaming" to the back of a small lake to get to a fishing spot where a small stream comes in. I made a straight line and kicked with everything I had. My wife would come by me and then make circles around me, talking all the time about how fun this was and I still could not "leave her in the dust" ??? I am a believer. Force Fins are the best. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas …  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com Fix underscore in address to reply

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FWIW, I really like the adjustable Force Fins. They fit better over wading boots.  The regular Force fins seem to fit better if you just wear a small neoprene bootie. bruce h

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Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks. Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today. The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

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Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!

        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

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Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!    what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

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Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

        hey, man, i will bust your ass for that response…if you promise me that you will get through this *last* bit of surgery in good shape!         good vibes to you, from your friend in the old north state wayno

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Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks.   Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today.   The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – @mcw.edu: Kill file nuff said Was it something I said? Wolfgang jeez, there’s just no pleasing some people.    :( Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time. Scott

Damnit Scott!  I just hate it when you forget a question mark.  It’s the thingie that looks like this (?).  Is there no end to this madness!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time. You guys better be careful. We could be dealing with a "nuff sadist" Tim     now, *that’s* funny.  i wish you’d cut this out.  sure is difficult staying pissed at someone with a good sense of humor. wayno

For a third time, dang it.  Nuff said! day in and day out . . . it just won’t STOP! George Gehrke "nuff said"

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Well, let’s hope he saved some of her hair for tying streamers? GG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just buried my sister last week . Fishing is super I love it but Lets put things in perspective as to importance in  this life. that is the single most maudlin post i have ever seen on usenet. i regret your sister’s passing.  but it must be noted that you are too fucked up for words. awh

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I just buried my sister last week . Fishing is super I love it but Lets put things in perspective as to importance in  this life.

        that is the single most maudlin post i have ever seen on usenet.         i regret your sister’s passing.  but it must be noted that you are too fucked up for words. awh

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If you dont agree with someone fine My whole point was you dont need to call someone fucked up, stupid , asshole or what ever if they dont agree with you. Its just that simple. I choose to ignore people who do Some people go through life doing this. Life is to short. Look for the good  you wont find it by telling others they are fucked ,twit or what ever  because they dont agree with you. I want other people opinions . A person cant live enough life times to gain the wisdom  available  from others. Im actually  a very easy going laid back person — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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I guess Bill Gates is wrong. I used spell check to verify my signature. Is it possible for Microsoft to make a mistake? — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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Dont you just love the pissing contest? Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short. As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable My 2 cents worth — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dont you just love the pissing contest? Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short. As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable My 2 cents worth — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

Line forms on the left.  No pushing, shoving, or cutting.  Please have your ticket ready. Scott

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Dont you just love the pissing contest? Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short. As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable My 2 cents worth — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

FURLESS IS ONE WORD YOU INSUFFERABLE TWIT! Wolfgang that enough information for ya?

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Dont you just love the pissing contest?

Actually, yes. I just don’t like it when it hits me. Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short.

Screw off! Don’t tell ME what to do!       (must relax, must relax. . . ) As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable

Uh, ’scuse me, but I don’t think "un" is a word. I wouldn’t say anything normally, but, hey, we’re discussing ignorance here. My 2 cents worth

Tim here’s your change

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dont you just love the pissing contest? Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short. As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable My 2 cents worth — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub FURLESS IS ONE WORD YOU INSUFFERABLE TWIT!

WOLF GANG is TWO WORDS YOU DUMB FUCK! George Gehrke "or is that WolfPack?"

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FURLESS IS ONE WORD YOU INSUFFERABLE TWIT! WOLF GANG is TWO WORDS YOU DUMB FUCK! George Gehrke

Not usually one to condone scatology, but, in the meantime, SIC’EM, George! By the bye, what’s the diffference between ignorance & stupidity? Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — A person is free only in the freedom of other persons.   W. Berry

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FURLESS IS ONE WORD YOU INSUFFERABLE TWIT! WOLF GANG is TWO WORDS YOU DUMB FUCK! George Gehrke Not usually one to condone scatology, but, in the meantime, SIC’EM, George!

Well, let’s see now.  I am reviled by the most despised and least literate buffoon on this news group, and from all reports on others as well, who is by now so drunk he probably can’t stand up (yep, look at the patterns), and who is, to put it as simply as possible, wrong as always, and he is cheered on by a guy who thinks he is a talking tree. Oh yeah, I’m all tore up.     By the bye, what’s the diffference between ignorance & stupidity?

The ignorant have not yet encountered a particularly loathsome piece of offal named George.  The stupid support him. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — A person is free only in the freedom of other persons.   W. Berry

Wolfgang he can never be free who allows aphorisms to think for him.

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The humor eluded you, which is understandable because you cut out the signature punch line. oh well? George "understanding he’s misunderstood"

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I think everyone missed the main issue here . . . WADDA YA MEAN its JUST fishing????  Man, it’s FISHING we’re talking about here!! MikeS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dont you just love the pissing contest? Its just fishing Everyone needs to get a life and enjoy the sport. Relax!  Life is to short. As a newbie I appreciate all  the information I can get. I will then make my decision on other opinions ignorant and un creditable My 2 cents worth — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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I just buried my sister last week . Fishing is super I love it but Lets put things in perspective as to importance in  this life. — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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Kill file nuff said — Fly Fisherman With a Fur less Naked Cat named Dub

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I just buried my sister last week . Fishing is super I love it but Lets put things in perspective as to importance in  this life.

Ow, Larry. That must have been horrible beyond words. My symathies. I hope there’ll be a quiet time this summer, maybe on a river with a line out, when thoughts of your sister come in and make the moment right. I buried my dad last year. The only thing I asked for from his estate was a casting rod. There are lots of such moments, and they’re good. riverman

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Kill file nuff said

I don’t get it. You make this thread’s original post scolding everyone for being petty, then when someone says something you don’t like, you post this petty reply. If you really want to "kill file" someone, just do it in a silent mode. It sounds to me like you don’t have much tolerance for others. Maybe you should just "kill file" all of us and be done with it. Then you can just read your own posts, the opinions of which I’m sure you’ll agree. Tim it’s lonely as a party of one

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Kill file nuff said

Was it something I said? Wolfgang jeez, there’s just no pleasing some people.    :(

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@mcw.edu: Kill file nuff said Was it something I said? Wolfgang jeez, there’s just no pleasing some people.    :(

Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time. Scott

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Scott Seidman wrote… Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time.

‘Nuff said. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time. Scott

I think this is a "nuff sader." — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time.

You guys better be careful. We could be dealing with a "nuff sadist" Tim

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Dammit, Wolfgang, Larry said "nuff said".  Wasn’t that good enough for you, or do you need to be "nuff saided" a second time. You guys better be careful. We could be dealing with a "nuff sadist" Tim

    now, *that’s* funny.  i wish you’d cut this out.  sure is difficult staying pissed at someone with a good sense of humor. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  

When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t suppose it depends upon the scales? — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjul00.html

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

City boy<g. Why when I was in school… — Charlie…

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G.

Really. One time I filled an Evian bottle with tap water and put it back in the refrigerator. My wife and kids never noticed the difference, but man were they pissed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people?

Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  Poor people who will not take charity.  Basically I’m someone who’s decided not to give money to charitable organizations (through a third party).  (I’ve done *work* for charitable organizations.) But, I’d happily buy a meal or give a gift to a poor family if I could find people who are actually poor and would accept something without finding me condascending.  This has happened to me, but the more I think about it, not often enough.  How do you find a person truly in need, and how would you actually approach them? Regards, Jeff

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way.

You had schools???  We used to sleep in a shoe box, and had to get up a half hour before we went to bed.  For breakfast we got a lump of cold poison. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

And you know what that spells backward….  :-) Regards, Jeff

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Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  

Giving money to panhandlers is the equivalent of feeding the bears at Yellowstone Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows?

Maybe so.  But I would still gladly buy a poor person a meal but not give money to some guy who profits from the transaction.  And I would rather buy someone a meal than give them the money.  It just pisses me off when I get scammed.  Just 2 weeks ago a guy in the parking lot of a supermarket told me his car broke down and he had to get his wife and daughter back home on the bus that night, so could he have enough money to pay for the 3 tickets.  As I was pondering this, it finally dawned on me that this was the same guy I gave money to almost exactly a year before, with the exact same shpiel (shp?) So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Regards, Jeff

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<good story snipped Nice story Mike.  Hopefully you will post this one to your website. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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"Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Surprisingly enough Ernie, you can live for a week or even considerably longer, on more or less nothing. Problems arise when this continues for long periods, and one is forced to eat stuff that one would not normally touch. I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days.  "Scraps" are the remains of fish, chips, batter etc soaked in lard, which are scraped out of the large frying pans used in fish and chip shops when they are cleaned. A bucket full cost a couple of pennies, and there was often a queue for this stuff.  I only ever ate the stuff a couple of times, but I can taste it still, and even the smell makes me feel ill.  I can not stomach even entering a fish and chip shop to this day, and I remember my wife being very surprised when we visited London once and she wanted to try fish and chips, and I simply could not stay in the queue which had  formed at the counter, as I was in severe danger of throwing up.  This sort of thing plays hell with peoples health as well.  It may not have appeared so in my story, but I was indeed one of the lucky ones, I had the means and the drive to go and catch fish, "find" "wayward" sheep, and even go and dig up "wild" potatoes or vegetables, or collect fruit and stuff in summer,  should this prove necessary. I also collected seacoal and wood, from the beaches, so we always had something to burn in winter, which was much more than many others had, and we never actually got anywhere even close to starving or freezing.  Although some I knew got close to it. Many of the people I knew at that time were sunk so deeply in apathy as a result of their poverty, that they could not help themselves, and even under those conditions, some were far too proud to accept "charity".  What little money they received from various sources, usually social security or similar, was often wasted in vain attempts at momentary escape from their respective plights, or even astoundingly enough,  pathetic attempts at "keeping up the show". Drunkenness was common, and many a wife and child beating took place, when some men lucky enough to have them, came home from their jobs late on a Friday night, after having drunk most of their relatively meagre pay in the local pubs. They were often also poorly educated, reviled by other sections of the community, and generally treated like dirt. Poverty is a deadly disease, it saps ones energy, removes any perspective of improvement for many, releases large amounts of criminal energy, mostly driven by hopelessness, and the feeling that things can get no worse anyway, whatever one does, often induces a positive fear of authority, and inevitably results in an early grave, as it did for both my father and my mother, and many many others I knew at that time. It may also reveal facets of human nature that are not normally obvious, not all of which are negative. A little kindness may cost a man of means virtually nothing, but may go a very long way to helping somebody far less fortunate. The world would be a far better place if some were bound to wonder as you did, how one may live on oranges for a week, and then consider those who did not even have the oranges, and in many places still do not. One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

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Mike,    I can understand why you would dislike fish and chips to this day. I had some at Ramsdens (sp?) in Northern England which were excellent. Ernie "Mike Connor" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days <snip TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC – .

And, indeed, Mike, you honor us all by doing so.  You certainly do not need my encouragement to continue your course, but you have it, nonetheless. Bravo! Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC

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Perhaps we are just perverse?

At the risk of having Ernie thump me on the head again I will repeat something I posted some time ago on ROFF.   It has been my experience that to most in America being hungry means trying to remember the last time you missed a meal.  In fact, being hungry means trying to remember the last time you HAD a good meal. Who’s perverse?

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An excellent analysis.  One other point occurred to me. Referring to a particular group of society as "the poor", is one of the reasons why people find it easy to avoid any identification with those so afflicted, it is easy to forget that we are talking about people here,  and the word itself is a stigma. As for many politicians, well I think it probably better to refrain from comment, waste of time anyway. Hardly seems worth the trouble criticising people who mainly appear to tell lies, and manipulate others for a living. If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows? I have not been hungry for a very long time either, but curiously enough, just like you, I remember exactly what it was like. In fact I remember it far more clearly than any of the times I have been ripped off, (also uncountable I fear),  or sat at sumptuous meals in equally sumptuous surroundings. Perhaps we are just perverse? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm,

        (snip)         simply amazing.  very, very few of us have ever been to that place. wayno

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Well, to paraphrase: Give a boy a fish and he feeds himself, teach him to fish, and he feeds a village… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Secondly, if you want to know how much a fish is worth, wait until you and your family are hungry, and carry a sackfull on your back to feed them. This will doubtless colour any subsequent ideas you might have on the matter considerably. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

So would a speller checker on this newsreader!!! Peter

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.

I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different. Regards, Jeff

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help. I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different.

Yes, there are cheats and slackers and no, it’s not part of the problem.  There are cheats and slackers in congress, in corporate offices, in academia, in churches, and in every other segment of society.  No one wants to dismantle any of these and no one thinks seriously about punishing them all for the sins of the few.  I repeat, it’s not part of the problem….it’s a different problem.  You are right about one thing; the people with the greatest means to help the poor generally do not live in close proximity.  Even when they do though, it is generally not the people with the greatest means who do the most to help.  Must be afraid of getting ripped off……might make them late for dinner. For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  I lost over forty pounds in that time and spent most of my time doing virtually nothing for lack of energy or incentive.  This is not a lament.  Unlike many millions of people around the world (and even here in the richest country in the history of the world) I always had options.  Eventually, I availed myself of an opportunity to get plugged back into the mainstream.  I have never been truly hungry since 1975, but I remember.  I’ve been ripped off lots of times since then….given money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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[reality snipped] When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.  Our current premier once remarked that single welfare mothers spend their money on beer.  One of his first acts was to substantially reduce both welfare payouts and eligibilty, putting many people onto the street.  He’s now out to privatise co-op housing – putting more on the street.  I can’t help thinking that a week of subsiting on a bucket of scraps would help his perspective immensely. Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm, pulling the collar up around my neck once more, I snuggled into the corner of the life-belt storage cupboard, and tried to think warm.  Walking the six miles or so along the clifftops and climbing down to the pier had kept me warm enough, and I had not really noticed how cold it was, but I was noticing now alright! Climbing up the icy steel pier legs in the pre-dawn dark with my gear had even caused me to start sweating, and I was paying for that now too. Cold sweat is very cold indeed.  Frosty clouds formed every time I exhaled, and the freezing spray from the stormy sea had soaked me fairly well through from the other side of my clothing as well. Nobody else was on the pier, quite unusual, as the tides were quite propitious, and the recent storms would almost certainly have brought some cod or whiting, and perhaps a few other fish closer in.  Leaving my temporary shelter, I moved out into the full force of the wind and spray, and surveyed the scene, dark clouds, swirling angry seas, and a long procession of heavy breakers crashing against the pier, causing it to  sway ominously under my feet.  Occasional banks of freezing fog rolled rapidly landwards, driven by a capricious but powerful wind, with clear patches now and again, allowing one odd glimpses of the land, and the cliff head, often covering the pier slipway, obliterating it, and making it seem as if one was standing on a tower with no land connection. Although dawn had broken, the weather was such that this was by no means apparent, it was still fairly dark, and it took me half an age to get my "storm-lantern",which consisted of a candle in a milk bottle with holes drilled around the bottom,  going, so that I had enough light to assemble my gear. This piece of equipment also did sterling service as a hand warmer. High tide was not for another two hours, but with freezing fingers occasionally warmed on the milk bottle, I painfully started to assemble my gear anyway.  Seven feet of solid fibreglass rod, an ancient wooden "Scarborough" centrepin reel with a hundred yards of forty pound line, an eight ounce lead, and a trace on which was mounted a set of three of my latest "secret weapons". Most of the blokes I met on the pier and elsewhere invariably laughed when seeing this for the first time, some kindly souls even offering me bait and other stuff, which however I always declined.  After a while, quite a few got to know me, as I literally haunted some venues when the fish were there, and was treated like a "regular", although even at that tender age I was considered eccentric, I was twelve at the time.  Not everybody knew my name, and many referred to me as "that fly-tying lad", not unkindly, but in that certain way that suggested I had at least a couple of screws loose.  Nobody actually tapped their foreheads, at least not in my presence, but I often got the feeling that they were about to. Fly-fishing at that time was something which the "gentry" did, and they did not do it in Winter in the North Sea. Standard procedure for serious sea anglers at the time was a multiplying reel, thirty to forty pound line, a minimum four ounce lead, and large baits, usually  consisting of lugworm, ragworm, peeler crab, herring strips, mussels, or various combinations of these. One or two hook rigs were used, these were cast out, the rod was put in a stand, or leaned against the pier railings etc, and a bite was awaited. Some clipped small bells on their rod tips and went to sleep while awaiting such a serendipitous event, others wandered around talking to their mates, smoking and drinking tea, or other "fortifying" beverages, often requiring them to make mad dashes down the length of the pier when their bells rung, and their rods threatened to go over the side. More well to do anglers, had "radium" lights, which were filled with luminescent radioactive gas, cost a veritable fortune, and were screwed or clipped to the rod tip. Occasionally some unfortunate would bugger up a cast, or forget to remove his clip light from his rod before casting, and the light sailed off into the distance, often accompanied by a cracking sound as the terminal tackle followed it on its way to the watery depths, which in turn was accompanied by a steady stream of inventive and colourful profanity, often to the amusement and elucidation of all present, especially some of the younger lads, who presumably laboured for some considerable time under the misapprehension that "fucking" and similar equally unprintable epithets had something to do with radioactive tip-lights. Someone chucking a bell away was not nearly as enlightening for bystanders, and elicited rather less interest. Some inevitably became curious about my gear, especially if I had caught a bagfull on my "hairy fancies" as one gentleman once described my flies. My intention at that time when fishing, was invariably to catch a bagfull, and that in the cheapest and most efficient way possible. My family, and not a small number of my neighbours, depended on it for a decent dinner.  Having had some success with flies in freshwater, I had turned my attentions to the North Sea, as the fish were usually bigger, and there were a lot more of them. Bait was difficult to acquire, and was far too expensive to buy, so I had resolved to try "fly-fishing" there as well. This particular set of "hairy fancies" were made up of 3/0 Mustad stainless steel "beak" hooks, wrapped with silver tinsel, and sporting "wings" of various coloured bucktail.  My technique was quite simple, albeit somewhat strenuous. With a  two or three step "run-up", a whirl very similar to that performed by a hammer thrower,  and a mighty twisting overhead heave, usually instilling considerable fear and amazement in the hearts and minds of any innocent bystanders, especially those who used "normal" gear, even in those who had seen it before, putting an awe inspiring bend into the old solid glass rod, the heavy wooden centrepin was forced into revolving at a speed for which it was never designed, producing thereby the most amazing noises, faintly reminiscent of a defective differential gear, or a rusty dungeon door being swung at high speed. This despite regular applications of fat to the "bearing", the while being braked by the thumb of my right hand to prevent the otherwise inevitable and horrendous "birds nest",  and the "flies" hurtled out, carried by the eight ounce lead, to land with an almighty splash, which could be heard even in the worst of storms and gales, as it was rarely more than about forty yards away when it struck the water. Which circumstance however had the pleasant side-effect of always assuring me plenty of room, even when the pier was crowded. My "flies" were then retrieved at various speeds and in various modes, until I caught a fish.  This happy event occurred surprisingly often, much to the chagrin of those who had previously laughed, and who notwithstanding their veritable armouries of wonderful and often expensive equipment had still not caught anything. Fortunately nobody was frightened half to death on this occasion, as there was nobody there. Having assembled my gear, I essayed my first cast of the day. This cast was always of the utmost importance, and had to be executed with considerable care, in fact the first few casts had to be done in such a way, as otherwise a jam up was quite likely, and the loss of expensive terminal gear inevitable. A careful and relatively modest thirty yard cast was the order of the day. Having accomplished this, I took up the slack, and placing the line over my right index finger, the butt of my rod tucked under my elbow, and my left hand supporting it by holding the rim of the reel, I started a jigging retrieve. Thump! and thump! again, heaving back on the rod I struck, and proceeded to haul in a couple of lively fish, beautiful whiting well over a pound each. These were hauled straight up the thirty foot drop by winding in, despatched, unhooked, and the next cast was prepared. In all the now well over forty years I have been fishing, I have never had a session like I had that day, and I will never do so again, as nowadays I would cease to fish after getting a few good ones.  The fish were there, a large shoal of hungry whiting and they were biting like crazy, I was hauling up two or three fish every cast, some really nice sized ones as well, but all were at least sizeable. Even in those days I was an optimist, and I had brought two large sacks with me and a polythene bag, which was actually designed to be used as a makeshift raincoat should the weather be really nasty.  I filled both sacks and the bag, and continued to fish like a lunatic, the pile of fish on the pier behind me continued to grow apace, but still I carried on, as if in a trance. Several people had now come on to the pier which had opened in the meantime, and stood watching, some started fishing, but I was oblivious to everything, and continued almost mechanically hauling up fish after fish. . Some time after mid-day I came to my senses, and viewed the carnage all around me.  I reeled in my gear and started gutting and filleting fish, several people asked if they might have a fish, and I told them to help themselves.  For several hours I filleted fish like a madman, emptying the sacks and the bag again on to the boards, and filleting those too,and even after filleting everything, and throwing all the guts and even the heads away as well, something I would not usually have done, as they made excellent soup, I still had two large sacks full of solid fish fillets, which I could only just lift. It took me almost seven hours to get home, and was well after dark  long before I got there. Carrying one sack a few hundred yards along the beach, dumping it, … read more »

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Question:

Can anyone give me some tips about fishing the runoff. The rivers up here (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) are pretty murky and fast from the recent rains and snow melt.  I headed out to the Elbow River at the weekend but got nothing. Tried black/olive wooly buggers (to me they looked just like the rest of the debris floating by), GRHE’s and Blace Dace streamers. Not even a nibble. I tied some white and red crystal streamers tonight and may give them a go. I’m thinking that maybe something white will be more visible through the murk. Any and all advice gratefully recieved KB

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In high murky river waters IMHO the best thing you cano do is keep moving and fish the margins.  The fish do not want to expend more energy than they can get from a meal.  The fast water causes them to expend too much energy so they snuggle up to obtructions – boulders, river bends, undercut banks, sand bars, downed logs.  They usually won’t move far so you have to practically hit them in the nose with the fly.  The good news is stealth is usually not an issue since their ability to perceive in murky water is limited.  I have found had some good success with large terrestrial insect patterns in high murky, summer water. Grasshoppers, beetles, bees, or imitations of large aquatics such as Royal Coachman, Humpies, Goddard Caddis and Elk Hair Caddis, fished dry, have produced some great days when the water seemed just too high, too fast, and too colored. As far as nymphs are concerned, high water dislodges tons of the suckers.  I believe the best patterns to use in these water conditions are suggestive of life, rather than exact imitations.  A furry Hare’s Ear, Beadhead Prince, and Weighted Stonefly are three of my favorites. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me some tips about fishing the runoff. The rivers up here (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) are pretty murky and fast from the recent rains and snow melt.  I headed out to the Elbow River at the weekend but got nothing. Tried black/olive wooly buggers (to me they looked just like the rest of the debris floating by), GRHE’s and Blace Dace streamers. Not even a nibble. I tied some white and red crystal streamers tonight and may give them a go. I’m thinking that maybe something white will be more visible through the murk. Any and all advice gratefully recieved KB

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Question:

Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!

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Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!

   I don’t guide in that area but when I was there several years ago I was told that some of the waters hold grayling but there are few if any trout in the park.

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Question:

I don’t have ten favorite flies and I would be hard pressed to just to give you the names of 30 flies.  To me "favorite fly" means the one I like best, not 10 or 30.  My favorite dry fly is a modified Horner Deer Hair, which tells you nothing because you have no idea how I modify it.  Jack Horner is the inventor of the Humpy or Goofus Bug which is my next to my favorite dry fly.  My favorite wet fly is a Western Coachnan and my favorite streamer is one of Keith Fulshers flies from his book "Tying and Fishing the Thunder Creek Series". — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

PERSON !!   I do not want to tell you !   Harry

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers.

Now you’re telling us the rules! My fly box isn’t that big, and I can’t remember all the names, just what works. 12 green ones, 16 black, 4 red, and 8 brown. Some are multi colored but who’s counting. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Question:

I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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Oddly enough, if you dip the rod tip back into the water, the ice will generally disappear.  I’ve found that by doing so, and fishing a short line, i.e. leaving the fishing length always outside the tip top, sort of nymphing style, I get along fairly well. jg

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I just carefully dip my rod into the river every so often.  The ice doesn’t seem to affect it much until they get super clogged.  Doesn’t seem to scare the fish, I did OK at the Thompson last weekend. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging.   By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just carefully dip my rod into the river every so often.  The ice doesn’t seem to affect it much until they get super clogged.  Doesn’t seem to scare the fish, I did OK at the Thompson last weekend. Chris I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging.   By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

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Where I fish the water is really cold for 3-4 months a year… For real cold conditions, I use 5 mm boot waders, 3 sizes larger than needed, which leaves plenty of space for thermal socks (2 if needed) without compressing the feet. That’s the trick. My feet never get cold even if the water is close to freezing point. – Tord Sweden – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging. By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

Charlie, I don’t know what type of fishing you are doing but here on the Great Lakes a technique used by winter steelhead fisherman for bottom bouncing egg flies and nymphs is to load their 6 – 8 wt rods with 1 or 2 wt fly line. Since this fishing usually involves lobbing split shot more than casting, a balanced outfit isn’t required. Among other things this outfit is supposed to help in minimizing the icing problems by virtue of the significant difference between the line size and the guide size(s). Along this line of thinking if you are going to go to the trouble of building a special rod for winter fishing you might want to try using oversized guides. — Steve Vaughn

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I just dip my tip into the water and shake the water off.  Works well enough, buty then I do not fish when it gets to 20 deg F.

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[snip]  I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?

I use two rods that might help.  I have a Winston 7 1/2 ft. 5 weight which is fast by Winston standards and can punch out line quite a distance yet make very delicate close in casts.  I do my winter fishing with a nine foot Loomis GL3 Megataper 8-9 weight.  It’s a saltwater rod with very large guides and tiptop, yet it has a typical GL3 delicate tip.  It isn’t a broomstick like most saltwater types. It also has a stiff butt section which allows me to grasp the rod midway and reach over to clear the tiptop.  I’m only 5′7" yet I have no problem reaching the tip.  I was fishing with it Saturday in a light snow for about three hours and I only had to clear the guides twice when they became completely blocked. Peter

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I just dip my tip into the water and shake the water off.  Works well enough, buty then I do not fish when it gets to 20 deg F.

A common trick among conventional fishers is to spray their rod guides with a Silicon spray lubricant before fishing with the occassional spray every once in a while during the day.  It’s pretty easy to give them a quick blast from the spray can now and then (no need to overdo it!)   I know there is a Silicon lubricant marketed specfically for use with monofilament line, but I’m afraid I don’t know how it might affect a fly line. Good luck, Tom Chandler

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:   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything : really work? :                                                TIA, Charlie I’ve used a Dow industrial silicone lubricant in the past that seems to work well. A very little amount rubbed on the guides, especially the tip allows the water to run or drip off before freezing. Naturally ice can still build up and the colder it is, the faster the buildup but in sane temperatures, -5 C little wind and a bit of sun, it does the job. I’v had this tube for years and don’t have any idea where you could source some now. FWIW  – Garry N. Boychuk, P.Eng. mechanical engineer, flyfisher, Zone 6b gardener

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Definitely build your custom rod with oversized guides and tip top. Additionally, you’ll have less icing if you keep your false casts to a minimum. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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Sounds like a new opportunity for the rod marketeers…Joint development project between Orvis and Prestone!  To tell ya the truth it wouldn’t surprise me a bit… — KennyM "I fish because I love to…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Definitely build your custom rod with oversized guides and tip top. Additionally, you’ll have less icing if you keep your false casts to a minimum. Paul I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold.

The key to keeping your feet warm is to wear boot foot waders instead of stocking foot waders. The bootfoot waders allow air to circulate from your legs down to your feet which keeps you warm. Stocking foot waders with boots on top do not allow for this circulation of air. My first time salmon fishing here in Michigan I wore my stockingfoot neoprenes and froze my feet off. A guide suggested using bootfoot waders and the next time I was warm and toasty.

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Hi, I saw your post concerning fishing in the cold.  For the tip top problem, being a backpacker comes in handy. I usually have a 4oz spray can of PAM non-stick spray, which I use if I’m frying up trout which I do from time to time Usually to save weight I just gut the trout and cook the trout directly on the coals and turn often for about 6-8 minutes. OPPPS….about the PAM spray the stuff on your guides it works as a great anti-freeze.  the guides will still freeze up a bit but not as often you can cast for 4 or 5 times better than with nothing on the guides.  For my hands What I use is a pair of Playtex rubber dish washing gloves.  The gloves protect my hands from the wet spray of the water rolling down the fly line.  I also add a thin polyproplene liner inside the rubber gloves if its real real cold outside.  Hope these ideas helps.  Tight Lines   Hugo ("Fish Head")

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A lot of sporting goods shops in Michigan sell toe warmers, which are little semi-circle shaped packs with adhesive on one side to stick to the bottom of your socks.  The first time I used them, I didn’t really feel any heat, so I thought they weren’t doing much, but when I went without them the next day my feet were numb within 20 minutes.  Now I don’t go near water between October and April without them.  They sell for about 99 cents a pair. -Jon Kruse National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory Michigan State University – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where I fish the water is really cold for 3-4 months a year… For real cold conditions, I use 5 mm boot waders, 3 sizes larger than needed, which leaves plenty of space for thermal socks (2 if needed) without compressing the feet. That’s the trick. My feet never get cold even if the water is close to freezing point. – Tord Sweden well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging. By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

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they really make your waders stink though — — TimW Halfordian Golfer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of sporting goods shops in Michigan sell toe warmers, which are little semi-circle shaped packs with adhesive on one side to stick to the bottom of your socks.

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Question:

writes: Does anyone know of some reputable sources for materials for tying trout flies? If so, please e-mail address and/or phone numbers. Thanks!

You can get a current fly tying catalog and place orders through Orvis at 1-800-548-9548.                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Does anyone know of some reputable sources for materials for tying trout flies? If so, please e-mail address and/or phone numbers. Thanks!

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Does anyone know of some reputable sources for materials for tying trout flies? If so, please e-mail address and/or phone numbers. Thanks!

Try "On The Fly" at 1-800-232-9359.  Good selection, good prices. Craig

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Try Hunters in NH . 1-800-331-8558.   The prices are not always the lowest but the quality of materials has always been unsurpassed. Without having to sort through the junk it might even be an equitable trade off. A.J.Thramer

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Question:

Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R. Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use?

I fish the Skagit on the Canadian side quite frequently. I believe that it opens July 1st though so check your regs. Also catch and release only now. I have had most of my success with basic Nymph patterns, and Mosquito immitations.Also had one great day using Royal Coachmen{hooked over 30 14-16" fish in a couple of hours fishing a back channel} never had another day like it there since though. But always do well.Try fishing with sink tip line as close to bottom as you can get in deeper runs, exspecially if water on low-clear side..                Good Luck!!

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the skagit river flows from south west British Columbia… our Government is in constant battle with the U.S. over further damming of the river which would flood one of the most Beautiful valleys in the world.

We’re good at that. The Glen Canyon of the Colorado in northern Arizona, now Lake Powell, was by all accounts and the testimony of photographs, THE most beautiful canyon in the world. Good luck.

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the skagit river flows from south west British Columbia,headwaters in the Manning Park area into a Man Made lake {Ross Lake} it is then Dammed in Washington State and then flows through Northern Washington into the Pacific.I fish it on the Canadian side only and our Government is in constant battle with the U.S. over further damming of the river which would flood one of the most Beautiful valleys in the world.

Actually, the various BC governments have *not* done battle with the US over the Skagit. The Skagit is close enough to Vancouver (which is very important politically in BC). When Seattle City Light wanted to raise Ross Dam and flood more of the Skagit, the BC government had a better idea – they built the Seven Mile Dam on the Pend d’Oreille (the Kootenays being of less importance politically), thus flooding the falls which kept coarse fish out of the Salmo River, and sold the power so SCL. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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  The dambuilding regieme [in particular the WAC Socreds] in British Columbia had an international reputation of "Profit first" environmentalism [comparatively, the present government is elligible for sainthood ]. One particular Rodderick H.Brown quote sets the way I used to feel about the rape of BC rivers at the expense of fish. "I hate practically everything British Columbia stands for today–the shoddy, uncaring devellopment of our natural resources, the Chamber of Commerce mentality which favors short-term material gain over all other considerations, the utter contempt for human values of any kind.  I hate and despise the trivial provincial mentality that denies Canada’s national heritage, which seeks petty advantage at cost to the common weal, which resists every vital Canadian concept and the whole range of modern knowledge and communication which can make the Canadian ideal a reality.  I apologize to the rest of Canada for this narrow lack of faith and vision."                        – Roderick Haig-Brown, June 21,1965. Actually, the various BC governments have *not* done battle with the US

over the Skagit. Water rights are pretty well Federal jurisdiction IF the despute is with a foreign country [in this case, the United States]. The Skagit is close enough to Vancouver (which is very important politically in BC). When Seattle City Light wanted to raise Ross Dam and flood more of the Skagit, the BC government had a better idea – they built the Seven Mile Dam on the Pend d’Oreille (the Kootenays being of less importance politically).

A lot of truth to this . . . When Seven Mile went in, the province was essentially being run from Howe Street in Vancouver [the financial backbone of B.C.]. Kryten// — @         0r

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Woahhh! Before you all go off fishin’ the Skagit, be aware that the

Out of curiosity, where is the Skagit? Tim

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 Out of curiosity, where is the Skagit? Tim the skagit river flows from south west British Columbia,headwaters in the Manning Park area

into a Man Made lake {Ross Lake} it is then Dammed in Washington State and then flows through Northern Washington into the Pacific.I fish it on the Canadian side only and our Government is in constant battle with the U.S. over further damming of the river which would flood one of the most Beautiful valleys in the world.

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the skagit river flows from south west British Columbia,headwaters in the Manning Park area into a Man Made lake {Ross Lake} it is then Dammed in Washington State and then flows through Northern Washington into the Pacific.I fish it on the Canadian side only and our Government is in constant battle with the U.S. over further damming of the river which would flood one of the most Beautiful valleys in the world.

If you need a US partner in blowing those damned dams on the Skagit the hell out of there, let me know.  Those damn dams gag that river.  Sadly a common story though.  However, I would be surprised if further proposed dams would ever possibly be built these days.  Thanks to interest groups, the plight of fish etc. as it relates to dams on rivers seems to be more near the front of people’s minds.   -tgades —

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Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R.

The Skagit River in Washington state?  You know of course that your post is read all over the world.   Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use?

To catch what?  Steelhead?  Dolly Varden?  Cutthroat?   Are you fishing low or high on the river. It’d be easier to help if you answered some of these essential questions. -tgades —

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Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R. Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use?

        I’m assuming that you’re fishing the upstream Canadian stretch in southwestern BC, where there is a lovely flyfishing only C & R stretch.         For all necessary info, contact Ruddick’s Fly Shop in Vancouver, tel: 604-434-2420.         I’ve fished it twice and the usual nymph patters (PTN, GRHE, Prince) and a green bodied caenis (#16 or #18) and Adams work.         Tight lines…

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Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R. The Skagit River in Washington state?  You know of course that your post is read all over the world.  

The Skagit R. in British Columbia Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use? To catch what?  Steelhead?  Dolly Varden?  Cutthroat?   Are you fishing low or high on the river.

I’llbe fishing for Rainbows and also Dolly Varden.  I’ll be fishing at low river.                                                    Tks again                                                     Eric

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Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R. Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use? A reply would be appreciated since I’m a novice at this sport                                                    TKS.

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Woahhh! Before you all go off fishin’ the Skagit, be aware that the river does not open on the Canadian side until July 1!!!! Even then there are C&R and other restrictions, so read the regs. My son and I were fishing there last year and I was approached by some very suspicous looking individuals who claimed they were just curious to see the fish. It was interesting to note they did not look like tourists and were carrying a net and wore waders. Can we say GAME WARDENs? My point is, check the regs and be aware that I believe the river is patrolled by officials who do not announce their intentions. On a positive note, the Skagit is beautiful and deserves all the respect it can get. I understand that over the years it has been threatened by dams and netting for meat. Fortunately there are people (Ted Peck included) who have managed to protect it for us and I think we should ensure its continued protection. The Skagit ‘bows are the most beautiful I have ever seen! The valley is a piece of paradise, especially when you work your way to the West side as far away from road access as possible. B.

: Next week I’ll go fishing the skagit R. : Someone have any idea on what kind of flies I should use? : A reply would be appreciated since I’m a novice at this sport   :                                                  TKS.

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Question:

I operate a Cortland Pro Shop and Stock over 300 DIFFERENT Cortland Fly Lines. I also build custom rods and have lots of other neat stuff.  If I can help out anyone with anything let me know. George E. Hoskin/Hoskin Enterprises RFD 1, Box 841 West Bath, Maine 04530 1-207-443-6064 1-800-244-7744

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