Question:

 I was determained to nymph for a few hours  using all the valuable tips I had recieved at show. Going upstream with the sun at my back I used Wayno’s valuable crawling tactics–could not use Humphreys tuck casts upstream as it was mostly small  pods of water behind rocks. So I tried high sticking with a  strike indicator and caught several 10 to 12 inch  wild rainbows  that  were real active when hooked. I cannot understand  writers who suggest moving indicator up or down due to depth of water because in this type of water you would have to adjust every second cast.

That’s one of the reasons Humphrey’s teaches not to use an indicator  Wish I had seen Humphreys again – he’s a sparkplug.

Response:

Wasted a day at fly-fishing show in Charlotte last weekend.

        (amazing amount of information shoved into a small space, snipped) I drove five hours home to Wilmington wondering why he had locked the door to his car. Joe McIntosh

        what a fantastic trip report.  when i grow up, i want to be just like you, joe.         your friend up in the red clay country         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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"-Indian Joe I drove five hours home to Wilmington wondering why he had locked the door to his car. Joe McIntosh

Well Joe, it’s an an old yankee habit. I remember my surprise in NC one day,when I returned to my van and found out I had left the door open! Not unlocked but open!  . . . nothing amiss. john . . . who has noticed a predilection for people to push their remote button until the horn beeps.

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Wasted a day at fly-fishing show in Charlotte last weekend. Joe Humphres talk on nymph fishing had lots of films of Joe catching  fish in Penn many years and we were all requested to yell now when he sould set the hook!!That guy is as old as me, and his stories are  worn out. Then Casada spoke on fishing in N.C. mountains- stories about snowbird and Slickrock- later I ask him which way he went into Slickrock because his  belly  told me he couldn’t get back up Fat Gap. He allowed as he had not been out that way for a few years. Sunday I tried to fish the top part of Opie’s creek but the local police stopped me at lower bridge and said I would have to hike in. Some yankee from Long Island had parked his car last week at the trail hed, left a suicide note inside, locked the door and dissappeared. I hiked along way upstream, sun was out,water cold on feet and I caught only two small rainbows on dry flies. Think I was more concerned with hooking a body than setting the hook. Monday morning I stopped by Waldo"s shop and he  was so sick I did not want to hang around long enough to share whatever he had so I again headed out to Opie"s place.  I was determained to nymph for a few hours  using all the valuable tips I had recieved at show. Going upstream with the sun at my back I used Wayno’s valuable crawling tactics–could not use Humphreys tuck casts upstream as it was mostly small  pods of water behind rocks. So I tried high sticking with a  strike indicator and caught several 10 to 12 inch  wild rainbows  that  were real active when hooked. I cannot understand  writers who suggest moving indicator up or down due to depth of water because in this type of water you would have to adjust every second cast. Was really getting into all this when  the police arrived and ask me to leave the area—-the buzzards had not led them to that poor yankee’s body so they were going to try the "dogs". I drove five hours home to Wilmington wondering why he had locked the door to his car. Joe McIntosh

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Smoking that shit from cabin one again John????       Handyman         Mike Handyman   Mike

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Question:

<SNIP  and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times).

<SNIP Sounds delicious!   Care to share the recipe? — George Reinier

Response:

NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member NSS life member

Life Life Member — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Greetings: Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Please see suggestions/possible ideas below. A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key.

  Yup, and the hungrier one is, the more one improvises – at least in our camps! I prefer to fry my trout in some oil or butter, lightly coated in corn meal.  (Important note:  If preparing fish this way after dark, _do not_ confuse corn meal bag with  powdered orange juice mix bag!)  :-(  There are many other options – just some examples: One can make a one-time fry pan out of aluminum foil. Wrap trout in aluminum foil and roast on hot coals. Roast them on a stick.   Trout au bleu [blue trout] Someone help me with my French, _please_.

 For this, you must be in a place where trout can be caught immediately: Prepare rest of meal, i.e., make rice and/or suitable other items in advance.  Bring water in pan to boil, and squeeze a little lemon juice in the water.  (You can carry a lemon a long time on most backpacking trips.)  Have someone catch trout and toss to another fellow camper, if possible.  Clean trout, preferably with one stroke, and plunge trout into boiling water.  Boil for about 30 seconds, or until flesh flakes off easily.  If you do this right, the trout flesh will turn light blue, hence the name.  Very light and flaky with most oils boiled away.  Even if the trout flesh doesn’t turn light blue, it will taste good anyway.  On a side note, I heard that fishermen in the northern states, (and perhaps Canada?), sometimes boil large lake trout in 50 gallon drums for fish-feeds.  Is that true?  If so, I would like to try that sometime. "Slurp" indeed!  :-) Cheers, and happy trials,  -Mark NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

Heck, I’d rather write ‘em a check every year, just in case I change my mind!  :-)

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key. NRA Life Member

Sierra Club Life Member

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NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

NSS life member              We’ll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Aluminum foil cannot be overrated.  Trout can be cooked in foil, and a small amount of spice, green pepper, onion, bottled salad dressing, or whatever can be added.  Not a lot to carry, and makes some very tasty fish.   PS.  Do not forget the matches. Steve Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

For car-camping I bring all the cooking luxuries.  Foil, some lemon and butter work most of the time with a wood fire.  It’s a little difficult to cook up a good sized trout with a Whisperlite though (frying up something you have filleted is easier).  You have to move around your under-sized light-weight backpacking frying pan and flip the fish a few times (I prefer my fish under-cooked, vs. over-cooked).  I do have a moderate weight grate I bring backpacking sometimes. NRA Life Member

Not again. — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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I would hike in about 2 1/2 hour hike then fish about 3-4 hours up river I have a good size day pack I use for my waders and boots I would not be close to a car when I cooked the trout. Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? NRA Life Member

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: OK to those who do this lets say you : like to make a small fire and cook a few : for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, : small grill top or what? What have you : tried.Thanks : NRA Life Member A friend brought along a small butane stove, teflon fry pan, a little oil and a little breading and some tortillas. We had fresh fish tacos alongside the stream on a fine bushwhacking daytrip. The tortillas made a great way to handle the cooked fish. I find that carrying the fish-cooking pan and supplies isn’t worth the weight since I’m already carrying a *reliable* cook-anywhere dinner when backpacking. Fishing is just entertainment for me. Last backpacking trip I was glad I’d left the fishing gear home. It was a very aggressive, off-trail, no-one-we-could-contact-has-ever-been-there kind of trip. My buddy brought his fly rod. Unfortutately  all the high lakes along the way were fish-free and the single stream caught fish wasn’t enough fun to justify bringing the flyrod. I’m glad I wasn’t carrying mine. See http://estes.on-line.com/rmnp/reports/paradise.html   for the story. Ron

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what?

Easy.  Pot lids.  Works fine.  No extra weight. They don’t hold the 5.5 lbs ones in one piece, but you learn to make do.

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Paul, I don’t think that is balanced correctly.  I think if you put a .223 with a high capacity magazine opposite and put the trout in the middle, it will balance much better. I have heard, from a reliable source, that this is the way to do it. Chris It is amazing the things you learn here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

You will probably troll better in rec.outdoors.fishing or one of the other fishing groups, either in that group or as a cross-post. But cross-post carefully. I just eat fish.  Like Muir, I find the act of fishing boring. Slurp.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else)

I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them. NRA Life Member No

Yes. — Ski Abineau!

Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks NRA Life Member

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

There are a myriad of ways to cook fresh trout, and all of them are wonderful.  For details, I highly recommend Rick Greenspan’s "Backpacking: A Hedonist’s Guide." Sadly, it’s out of print, but your local library might have it. Gerald

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I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them.

‘Guess I’m missing your point…what else would you do with them? Generally, I prefer to eat them vs. catch-n-release.  It depends upon where you’re fishing, with whom your fishing with and how many other fish you’ve caught, limits, Blue Ribbon Fishing Waters, etc. NRA Life Member No Yes.

Not all gun owners/hunters are NRA members.  We lived off of elk chili in college and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times). — Ski Abineau! Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

Sorry, the "chutes" are located well within the Kachina Peaks Wilderness, but there is the "Waterline Road" which is gerrymandered into the Wilderness area (so the City can drive up the road and check on their water pipes).  A nice mtn. bike ride on the road.  When there’s snow, the Flagstaff area is quite popular with the ‘bilers, (N. Rim of GC too). — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water?

Climbing. Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

I like it.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

Done mean fish for trout or catch trout? I’m pretty good at the first and just OK at the second. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

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: How many of you backpackers trout : fish? If I get some responses to this : I have more questions.Thanks Sure. Makes a great way to pass the time when you’re too tired to walk anymore. : NRA Life Member Ron NRA Life too

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I canoe camp, not backpack.  Yes, I flail for trout (recently took it up, it’s not a pretty sight.  But the trout don’t mind.  They just swim in the same spot in the stream and ignore me.). If I were in a survival situation, the last thing I’d be doing is fishing with a line.  Nets.  Nets and weirs.  Just thought I’d drop that in to possibly start a new line dipped and see if I can catch anything bigger and more easily… How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

—– rbc: vixen  (somewhat harmless) 0-0:  The artist formerly known as something else. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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I do I do!!!!!!!

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water? Fishing is a very nice compliment to backpacking, not to mention you have an extra food source. Fishing is my second most favorite activity. Steve NRA and CCW Devotee Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish?

Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else) NRA Life Member

No — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

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Question:

Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252

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<<Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252 Hey R.J.  We need to hook up and go flyfishing together.  I too live about 20 minutes South of Spokane and am always looking for new fishing buddies. The best bet for this time of year is the St. Joe by St. Maries, ID.  Call Propps Fly Shop or the Silver Bow for water conditions and hatch information. They can also direct you to what else is hot right now. There is also some tremendous lake fishing starting to happen in the Columbia Basin.  If  you want to get into some fish over the 20 inch mark the Lake Lenice or Lenore are the places to be. Email me and let’s plan a trip. Mike Wilson

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Question:

I fell in love with the elk-hair caddis last summer as I learned on the Logan River and Franklin Basin. But now it is obvious that dry-flys without sunny days don’t work.

It’s more like dry flies without bugs in the air won’t work. In fact, overcast days are usually more productive than sunny days. The fish are cautious of predators on sunny days. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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I started my love of fly-fishing on the Logan River in Utah.  I have recently moved to Ogden, Utah.   A few kindred soles have told me areas of the Weber and Ogden River to try.  The local fly shop (there being only one I can find in Ogden) tells me "nymphs, nymphs, nymphs". The problem is what nymphs?   I don’t have much if any experience working nymphs.  The truth is this is my first winter at fly-fishing.  I fell in love with the elk-hair caddis last summer as I learned on the Logan River and Franklin Basin. But now it is obvious that dry-flys without sunny days don’t work. What I need is a fishing buddy in the area.  Any one in the area looking for some one to fish with? Thanks, Jason

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Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

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When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

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When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

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A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

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Question:

I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July.  I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors.  Is there any good fly fishing in the area?  I would appreciate any information.

I too *HATE* casinos and motel rooms are like coffins… …*BUT*, there is salvation in Vegas…the pools… the swimming pools…drinks brought poolside…it’s a hundred and twenty in the frikken shade and ahh…yes…the pools.. it’s like they say…when in Rome… The one thing that I have wanted to do is to try and find a sidewinder in the desert…I’ve never seen one. Of course then I’d be all tired and sweaty and thirsty and the pools would be crying out in their little pathetic voices…"Tim….Tim… come here Tim….I have that drink with the speared fruit and umbrella Tim…." But flyfishing…???? Maybe lead core at Mead…or possibly dry flies in the fountain at the Mirage casting at bikini latches or 100 dollar bills at the bar… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July.  I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors.  Is there any good fly fishing in the area?  I would appreciate any information. — Sincerely, Fred E. Nakaguma

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Question:

I reposted this because I got a very low response on the first try  … can anyone offer suggestions for low-cost (or no-cost) sources (websites, catalogs, seed swaps, etc.)? I’m looking to grow a blue/lavender hibiscus syriacus (aka, rose of sharon, althea, blue bird, etc.) but have been unsuccessful in locating seeds/cuttings/plants. Would anyone who has such an h. syriacus be interested in swapping for some h. rosa-sinensis? Or, I’ll pay for postage w/ an SASE if you don’t want to trade. Please either post to this newsgroup or email me. Thanks! – Rob

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I’m looking to grow a blue/lavender hibiscus syriacus (aka, rose of sharon, althea, blue bird, etc.) but have been unsuccessful in locating seeds/cuttings/plants. Would anyone who has such an h. syriacus be interested in swapping for some h. rosa-sinensis? Or, I’ll pay for postage w/ an SASE if you don’t want to trade. Please either post to this newsgroup or email me. Thanks! – Rob

— Tom Miller If you like tropical plants like hibiscus, please see: <http://www.trop-hibiscus.com "The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side."  … R.O.Clark

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I’m looking to grow a blue/lavender hibiscus syriacus (aka, rose of sharon, althea, blue bird, etc.) but have been unsuccessful in locating seeds/cuttings/plants. Would anyone who has such an h. syriacus be interested in swapping for some h. rosa-sinensis? Or, I’ll pay for postage w/ an SASE if you don’t want to trade. Please either post to this newsgroup or email me. Thanks!

I’ve seen them advertised in Parks Seed, Wayside, and other catalogs. Mike Strickland USDA Zone 7 Sunset Zone 32

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I reposted this because I got a very low response on the first try  … can anyone offer suggestions for low-cost (or no-cost) sources (websites, catalogs, seed swaps, etc.)? I’m looking to grow a blue/lavender hibiscus syriacus (aka, rose of sharon, althea, blue bird, etc.) but have been unsuccessful in locating seeds/cuttings/plants. Would anyone who has such an h. syriacus be interested in swapping for some h. rosa-sinensis? Or, I’ll pay for postage w/ an SASE if you don’t want to trade. Please either post to this newsgroup or email me. Thanks!

  The only ‘blue’ althea shrub that I’m aware of is Blue Bird which is sold as a plant by Wayside Gardens.  This is (or was) a patented plant and not widely available: if the patent is still valid, vegetative propagation is not legal.  It’s seeds sprout occasionally but do not come true.  I’ve had mine in zone 7 for 25 years and recommend it highly.  Photographs do not generally record the flower color accurately, but I think it is the best of the altheas. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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Question:

I have figured out how to use fiberoptics to backlight a chest pack.  It has no direct light to scare trout, used red light, and only needs a couple of AAA batteries.

Well done ! Do you all think that this is marketable?  I could retrofit most chest packs for under $35, which is chump change to fly fishing (or so Orvis seems to think)….

Of course it’s marketable.  I won’t buy one though.  What fun would night fishing be if you had a reliable light ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have figured out how to use fiberoptics to backlight a chest pack.  It has no direct light to scare trout, used red light, and only needs a couple of AAA batteries. Do you all think that this is marketable?  I could retrofit most chest packs for under $35, which is chump change to fly fishing (or so Orvis seems to think)…. No, it’s too cheap and inconspicuous.  What’s the fun of buying flyfishing stuff if every yahoo can afford it and no one can see it?  I’d rather ostentatiously pull the Honda generator out of my Orvis Jeep Cherokee, crank her up so that all can hear me and run the power out to me while I’m in the stream.  That way I can use a halogen lamp to read the faxes coming in from my broker in Japan over my handheld cellular fax machine. Plus, without a direct light, who’ll be able to see me?  And even if they could, won’t a red light throw off my color coordinated vest and hat?  Sounds like a bad idea to me. Musconet

Great stuff, I love off-season :-

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Question:

I pretreat as I tie to avoid the gumming up problem Ralph refers too.  I use any paste floatant on my fingers as an example when spinning fur on thread to dub a body, or run a dry fly hackle thru thumb and forefinger after having dipped thumb in floatant. Works better for me than soaking in liqids(water seal, scotchguard or whatever)                        Mike in PDX               "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                           Tom McGuane

Hi Michael-    Cool idea. I’ll give it a try. Thanks!    -Ralph —

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Can anyone, particularly those of you who tie large quantities of flies, tell me what I can use to coat my dry flies.  I have tied several hundred dry flies this winter and want to apply that initial coat.  I know I can buy dry fly silicone mucilin at my fly shop, but I would like more than just a small bottle.  I have been told that Thompsons Water Seal can be used, as well as the silicon spray used to water treat clothes.  Is Thompson ok to use?  What else is out there? What do you mass tyier use?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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I soak my dry flies in liquid silicone. It’s avialable from large automotive supply houses, etc. It’s less expensive than the stuff from the fly shop. Good luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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   I used to pretreat my flies but finally made the decision to stop. Silicone products leave a tackiness on the flies. This tackiness gets transferred to the fly box. Once a fly is used, algae and other bits of grime adhere to it and get carried into the flybox. In the coarse of a season this grime builds up and pretty soon the whole box has a sticky dirt coating its interior walls and the flies float worse than they would if they hadn’t been treated in the first place.    Many excellent anglers *do* pretreat their patterns, I found it wasn’t worth it to me.    Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <epoxy probs In my dealings with rod wrap and normal epoxy, I have always made several  times the amount necessary.  The reason for this is to reduce the uncertainty  of error in the measurement.  If you’re off .1 ml on .5 ml, that’s 20%, which the manufacturer will tell you is outside the bounds of tolerance for the mixture.  Epoxy is cheap, blanks aren’t.  Increase the amount you make by a factor of three, and the same measurement error won’t hurt. No matter how slowly you stir the epoxy, you’ll still get bubbles. Moreover, you’ll get bubbles merely from air trapped under the threads. What needs to be done is to thin out the epoxy, making your first coat more of a "sealant" rather than a covering. I use 25% resin, 25% hardener (of course) and 50% acetone.  This makes the epoxy water thin.  I make certain the guides are on the bottom of the blank (it’s suspended on each end) — this allows the *slight* excess epoxy to collect in the gap that the thread forms as it passes over the guide foot, essentially locking the guide to the blank. As I drip the epoxy on, I can see the bubbles that come to the surface of the wraps!  It almost foams.  One or two more drips after the foaming stops and all is well. The above information comes from _Advanced Custom Rod Building_, by Dale Clemens. Your humble flyfishing rod-builder, Matt Meola

You know, I never thin my epoxy, and I never have problems with bubbles.  When I mix the epoxy, I get bubbles in the mix, but I apply the epoxy with a decent quality brush, while the rod is turning in the drying motor.  This seems to  brush out the bubbles. I use one of the color preservers as a sealant, so air bubbles from the threads have not been a problem. What one of my woodworking books suggests is that have all the material at a stable temperature is a good idea; that having material that is cold come up to a warmer temperature will cause it to extrude air bubbles as the material comes up in temperature and the air expands. Regards ATB

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For some reason that I don’t profess to understand a hair dryer will remove those bubbles while the epoxy is still fluid. Good luck !

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<epoxy probs In my dealings with rod wrap and normal epoxy, I have always made several  times the amount necessary.  The reason for this is to reduce the uncertainty  of error in the measurement.  If you’re off .1 ml on .5 ml, that’s 20%, which the manufacturer will tell you is outside the bounds of tolerance for the mixture.  Epoxy is cheap, blanks aren’t.  Increase the amount you make by a factor of three, and the same measurement error won’t hurt.

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<epoxy probs In my dealings with rod wrap and normal epoxy, I have always made several  times the amount necessary.  The reason for this is to reduce the uncertainty  of error in the measurement.  If you’re off .1 ml on .5 ml, that’s 20%, which the manufacturer will tell you is outside the bounds of tolerance for the mixture.  Epoxy is cheap, blanks aren’t.  Increase the amount you make by a factor of three, and the same measurement error won’t hurt.

No matter how slowly you stir the epoxy, you’ll still get bubbles. Moreover, you’ll get bubbles merely from air trapped under the threads. What needs to be done is to thin out the epoxy, making your first coat more of a "sealant" rather than a covering. I use 25% resin, 25% hardener (of course) and 50% acetone.  This makes the epoxy water thin.  I make certain the guides are on the bottom of the blank (it’s suspended on each end) — this allows the *slight* excess epoxy to collect in the gap that the thread forms as it passes over the guide foot, essentially locking the guide to the blank. As I drip the epoxy on, I can see the bubbles that come to the surface of the wraps!  It almost foams.  One or two more drips after the foaming stops and all is well. The above information comes from _Advanced Custom Rod Building_, by Dale Clemens. Your humble flyfishing rod-builder, Matt Meola

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I know of no greater disaster in rod building than to apply a poorly- mixed or mis-proportioned batch of epoxy to the finished wraps. (snip) So, I highly recommend using syringes or some other accurate measuring device to ensure good proportions.

(snip) Excellent advice.  I would also add that a *lot* of headaches can be avoided by first testing a batch of epoxy on a section of scrap rod or dowel.  Once you confirm that this batch hardens properly, then mix a batch for application to your rod, making sure you mix in exactly the same proportions as in your test.  The reason is simply that some epoxies have a limited shelf life and will never harden properly when that shelf life is exceeded.  If you’re using an epoxy that you’ve had for a long time, or that (unbeknownst to you) sat on the retailer’s shelf for ages, you could be in for some trouble.  The day or two invested in making the initial test for proper hardening may save you countless hours of grief and cursing later.  An ounce of prevention……     BTW, here are a few tricks I’ve found useful to assure that the epoxy applied to wraps is trouble- and bubble-free.  Do your mixing in a shot glass which has a round bottom inside; the lack of "corners" in the container helps assure *complete* mixing.  Use a long dubbing needle to do the mixing; stir slowly and carefully to avoid carrying bubbles down into the epoxy.  Apply to the rotating rod with a small, flat camel-hair brush, again slowly and carefully, to avoid trapping bubbles.  Finally, to get rid of the inevitable few bubbles that will still sneak into your application, breath a moist film of condensation onto the epoxy; as this (quickly) dries, the bubbles will pop (apparently an effect of differential surface tension between the fluids).  Pricking the bubbles with a needle is less effective and takes longer; I use it only as a last resort, or to move a bubble to a location where I can breathe the life out of it . Brian Tucholke

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I know of no greater disaster in rod building than to apply a poorly- mixed or mis-proportioned batch of epoxy to the finished wraps. Perhaps the only thing that could be worse would be to slip and fall on the blank; thus  snapping it in half. At least in that case, the pain and suffering would subside relatively quickly. (You would simply accept the consequences and shell out a couple hundred $$ or so for a new blank.) Whereas, in the case of putting a bad mix of epoxy on the wraps, the poor results will torment and gnaw at you for hours, days, or even longer. The stuff will never dry; it’s impossible to clean completely off the blank and/or wraps; and it will stick to whatever it touches as if it were the devil’s own snot! I was compelled to stand on the above soapbox by my second such run-in with a bad mix of epoxy which happened to me a few days ago. (Please don’t ask me about the first – I’m *still* agonizing over that one!) This was a case in which I had already laid down a good coat of epoxy on the wraps which had dried beautifully, and I just needed to dot the base of each guide foot with a drop of epoxy to seal them from water penetration. I didn’t have much time, so I thought I’d be cool and just pour the resin and hardener into the mixing cup from their respective bottles and eyeball the amounts to ensure the proper proportions…         WRONGO!!! After two solid days of spinning on the rod drier, the drops were the consistency of honey on a very cold day and every bit as difficult to work with. So, I slaved for hours using an X-acto knife as a spatula to spoon the useless stuff off the guide feet, ruined everything I came into contact with with the sticky glop on my fingers, and generally ended up hating life. The good news is that I was able to get most of the bad stuff off the guide feet and apply a good batch of epoxy in it’s place. But the bad news is the many hours of lost time and the numerous demerits I got from my wife for swearing in the house. What’s even worse is how totally avoidable this situation was. Without wishing to pontificate, please let me offer that it is incredibly easy to get a good mix of epoxy if you simply follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter. (I’ve done so on many occasions.) On the other hand, it’s also incredibly easy to screw it up if you try to cut corners and rush things. In the case I mention above, my error was in thinking I could get the proportions right by just pouring straight from the bottles and eyeballing the amounts. This turned out to be a huge mistake; I took my time and mixed the stuff thoroughly, but was dead from the start because of the mis-proportions I got from pouring from the bottles. So, I highly recommend using syringes or some other accurate measuring device to ensure good proportions. In conclusion, I refer to this article as "revisited" because I know there have been many others who have struggled with this very problem many times in the past, and there will be many others who struggle with it again in the future. I simply hope my rod building disaster story is both entertaining and informative to anyone who is involved in rod building now or who might be interested in getting into rod building at some point in the future. To those of you; may you always mix your epoxy with confidence – but *carefully*! Regards, Fred Templin  

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Quoting roccus609 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     For some reason that I don’t profess to understand a hair dryer will     remove those bubbles while the epoxy is still fluid. Good luck ! The heat causes the bubbles to rise to the surface and pop.  There are several small alcohol lamps available that are more precise than using a hair drier. Jim in Southern California `[1;31;43mRainbow V 1.06 for Delphi – Registered

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A suggestion was made to use a small alcohol lamp t provide the heat to get the bubbles out of the flex coat.  Be careful!  That stuff is flammable. I simply exhale into the container with the epoxy and the bubbles largely dissapear.  All that is left are a few tiny bubbles that disappear if the epoxy is applied smoothly to a rotating rod.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)    A suggestion was made to use a small alcohol lamp t provide the heat to    get the bubbles out of the flex coat.  Be careful!  That stuff is    flammable. Indeed — moreover, I believe that adding heat to epoxy will accelerate the curing reaction.  Those who heat their epoxy may find the working time diminished, somewhat.  (This information actually comes from some experience in the world of RC modeling…) — Matt Meola NRA Life, Militiaman Don’t tread on me. http://usa.net/~gaulj/Home.html

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Regarding getting rid of the bubbles, a heat gun works better than a hair dryer and and alcohol lamp.  Take short, close swipes and as the epoxy thins brush t e drips away.  Contact me with any other questions re: rod building!

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Hi: I find it is much easier to use a very soft lintless cloth dampened with warm denatures alcohol works even better than a alcohol flame in removing bubbles from a finish. It is very important that the alcohol be at 90 deg to 110 deg and that the cloth is only damp and not wet. Wipe in line with the grain, and only wipe lightly. I also find that finish will not create bubbles if the cane is cold and the finish is warm. I find that dipping at a rate of 1 inch in 30 seconds on dipping and 1 inch in 2 minutes on withdraw will create an almost perfect finish. I use a #110 spar that is heated to 80 deg +/- 5 deg is probably the best finish I have found for proper rod  protection. Catch you later Mike Taylor  (Detruncus1) on AOL

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