Question:

<Good report snipped What, no whitefish to report about Jeff? Darin

Response:

Jeff C writes:

(snip for brev) – Jeff Miller’s week: up at 5:30 to fish before breakfast.  Sometimes pack a lunch to fish straight through.  At dinner, eat everything he ordered plus half of Dene’s order,

You mean to tell me that scurrilous lawyer from the great North State was also eating Dene’s food?  Helll, when he sat opposite me I had to build a defensive wall consisting of wine bottles, water glasses, etc. to keep my food from ending up in his plate.  Somewhere there is a picture of Jeffy, ala the picture of Dorian Gray, growing fatter and fatter and fatter, while our beloved yet scurrilous friend remains lean and mean. As far as Benee goes —- well, if I didn’t have to take a leak so badly, we’d *still* be in the 2nd current catching big brookies and salmon.  I enjoyed meeting her, Jeff, and hope the both of you can come back. Dave LaCourse, Bottom Dweller

Response:

Helll, when [Jeffy] sat opposite me I had to build a defensive wall consisting of wine bottles, water glasses, etc. to keep my food from ending up in his plate.

That’s good …hope the both of you can come back.

Yes, that would be good. Regards, Jeff

Response:

What, no whitefish to report about Jeff?

I forgot!  No whitefish!  One nice thing about the fishing there is that when you hook something it’s either a salmon or brook trout (although there were rumours of some browns being in the water, which was made more confusing because apparently some salmon had red spots.)  And you know immediately which one it is by the direction the fish streaks – north or south Regards, Jeff

Response:

Jeff C writes: What, no whitefish to report about Jeff? I forgot!  No whitefish!  One nice thing about the fishing there is that when you hook something it’s either a salmon or brook trout (although there were rumours of some browns being in the water, which was made more confusing because apparently some salmon had red spots.)  And you know immediately which one it is by the direction the fish streaks – north or south Regards, Jeff

There are both chubs (large shiner-like fish) and suckers in the Rapid.  The chubs will hit a streamer and the suckers regularly take a nymph.  In fact, on Monday I took a slucker out of 1st current.  Peter was at the tail of the current and couldn’t see it — he thought it was a big brookie.  There are also yellow perch and supposedly small mouth bass.  I’ve caught a yellow perch, but never a bass. Dave LaCourse

Response:

There are also yellow perch and supposedly small mouth bass.

I remember now I saw a sign on the riverside that said smallmouth had been illegally "stocked" in the river.  It encouraged fishermen to keep any smallmouth that were caught, since they are "very aggressive" (in taking over trout habitat.)  I have to admit I would have been shocked to catch a perch Regards, Jeff

Response:

- Benee and I really enjoyed our trip to Lakewood.  Ever since I dropped in on this group and mentioned to Benee the sort of names I’ve been called, she really had no interest in reading or posting.  She’s not a big internet surfer in any case.  But slowly I was able to convince her she’d enjoy a clave like the one in Maine.  I think one of the things that intrigued her was some of the handles of ROFF posters: Indian Joe, Pamlico Jim, Daytripper, Fishworship, Flyfish, Big Dale, Bruiser, Wayno, and now I guess Zimbo??, etc.  She says she will invent her own handle and post a trip report herself, and she also has pics to contribute. – First I’d like to say that one of my primary goals was to see Benee catch her first trout on a fly.  Now, as many of you know, teaching fly fishing to your significant other ranks right up there with showing them how to golf. According to Peter Charles, it is second to hanging wallpaper together.  So I’m very thankful to Dave LaCourse who not only provided a pleasant guiding experience to Benee, but actually helped her catch her first fish.  There was one tag team effort between Dave and Benee on a brookie of about 17", and after that Benee caught a salmon on her own that appeared somewhere around 14-16". Mission accomplished!! – My dream fish for the trip was an 18" native brook trout.  I never caught that fish, but I was pleasantly surprised by the salmon, which went ballistic when hooked, as Zimbo said. – I cannot claim the biggest fish, the most fish, the largest fish on a little hook, or any other meaningful accomplishment, but I do claim the toughest river crossing – *below* lower dam.  I made it, but not recommended. – I wasn’t able to stay long enough for the raffle, but look forward to whatever I might have gotten.  Also sorry I missed the bonfire.  On the way out Wednesday morning, I ran into Dave Tatosian, Paul Goodwin, and Dave (Bottom ? flyfish).  Glad I was able to at least say hi to Dave again but sorry we again didn’t get a chance to fish. – Dave LaCourse drives an Audi.  When Dave asked Benee what she did, Benee said she was an audiologist.  Dave asked Benee if she could look at his car. – One thing that’s fun about fishing with a newbie is a fresh look at some of the lingo we take for granted.  When you or I might say "Had a few splashy refusals", Benee would say "I think I had a nibble.  Didn’t pan out though." – From the sound of things, the better fishing seems to have been in the second half of the week.  Oh well!  That’s the kind of thing that keeps you coming back. – The accomodations were exactly my style.  On Sunday I only had half a day to fish, so I took a lunch with me to the river.  There wasn’t anything unique or special in the lunch bag, yet the lunch out on the river, under absolutely beautiful skies and perfect temperature, *was* special and it tasted damn good.  Hard to say why, but you know what I mean. – Jeff Miller’s week: up at 5:30 to fish before breakfast.  Sometimes pack a lunch to fish straight through.  At dinner, eat everything he ordered plus half of Dene’s order, and start drinking wine.  After dinner, sit in a rocking chair and start drinking heavier stuff.  At some point while listening to the "party", drift off to sleep.  Repeat. – It turns out Indian Joe and Dene stayed at the same bed and breakfast that Benee and I did in Portland Thursday night.  The contrast between the brochure and the actual accomodations was a joke!  Luckily we had good company to share the laugh with. – Well, Dave did a great job with the organization, thank you. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

<good story snipped I liked it a lot, Adam. Put me in mind of my favorite Sierra small stream and had me reflexively looking for my hiking boots. thanks, -sid

Response:

<snipped Keep writing stuff like that and you won’t have anyone out to get you.  Well done. Reminded me of a little spot I often go to get away from the hustle and bustle of the tourists. Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass.

    (snip)     very well written prose, adam. wayno

Response:

Dear Adam, This is what fly fishing is about. It is not what you catch but where you catch (if you catch). And the more, this is what fly fishing in Continental Europe is about, small streams in Belgium, Northern France and Germany. No huge trout out for your fly (you are more than lucky to catch one of upto 40 cm), but to be away from it all. Marcel From The Netherlands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

Question:

I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. Willi

Response:

Hey, look on the bright side, 10 years from now the chinks and the yanks will have a great big mushroom throwing contest and Canada and Lichtenstein will be the next world powers. Kinda reassuring, don’t you think? KB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. Willi

Response:

Kevin: It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.  Trying to be funny? Try much harder. Actually,  it would be much better if you were just to shut your loud mouth. Usage of such term shows us that you are beyond the word ignorant can ever describe you as a person. I do not know you personally but from the short comment I see posted here, you are a useless piece of work. Go to hell, you asshole. jimmy chang

+AD4-Hey, look on the bright side, 10 years from now the chinks and the yanks +AD4-will have a great big mushroom throwing contest and Canada and Lichtenstein +AD4-will be the next world powers. +AD4- +AD4-Kinda reassuring, don’t you think? +AD4- +AD4-KB +AD4- +AD4APg- I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was +AD4APg- Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. +AD4APg- fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. +AD4APg- +AD4APg- Willi +AD4APg- goldens+AEA-frii.com +AD4- +AD4-

Response:

It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.

I too thought Kevin’s choice of words (the "c" word) was inappropriate and ruined what may have been an otherwise humorous intent.   I don’t disagree with you, but I would also point out that few things will draw more criticism here that nominating yourself as the voice of the majority. Go to hell, you asshole.

In your own words, such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. Chill dude. Joe F.

Response:

Kevin: It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.  Trying to be funny? Try much harder. Actually,  it would be much better if you were just to shut your loud mouth.

Jimmy Chang, I’ve lurked through this post from the start, and it seems to me that the one throwing around the most insults is you. Try to remove yourself from your self appointed throne, unwrap yourself from the "poor little minority flag" for a minute, take a breath and read into what some of the other posters have been telling you. You may not realize it, but most of them  are actually on your side. Nobody needs more enemies but you seem to be doing your level best to create them out of allies. Oh and if you want to throw a few racist comments my way to make yourself feel better I am 1/2 English, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 Scandinavian and 1/8 Blackfoot Indian (native American). So "Pommy Bastard" works as does "Chug", "Mick", "Tomahawk", or "Honky". Or if you would prefer call me four eyes, that works too. Or if you want, call me another name that rhymes with my last name Cooper. when I was a kid, everyone thought pooper was pretty funny, and stooper was right up there as well. In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. Usage of such term shows us that you are beyond the word ignorant can ever describe you as a person. I do not know you personally but from the short comment I see posted here, you are a useless piece of work. Go to hell, you asshole.

Truly said from the exhaulted leader  himself

Response:

[deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously.

[deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. [deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

  As long as he doesn’t make me dance like he used when he was with the monkeys I think I can handle it. Stevo the "sewer-mouth"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. [deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"  As long as he doesn’t make me dance like he used when he was with the monkeys I think I can handle it. Stevo the "sewer-mouth"

Now THAT is freakin’ (somewhat polite way of saying f***in’) funny. I can just hear it now.  David Jones coming to get you guys singing  "Hey, hey I’m one of the monkeys and I’m not f**king around…" Aw, what the fuck.  There I said it. Warren

Response:

Steve Cooper: Jimmy Chang, I’ve lurked through this post from the start, and it seems to me that the one throwing around the most insults is you. Try to remove yourself from your self appointed throne, unwrap yourself from the "poor little minority flag" for a minute, take a breath and read into what some of the other posters have been

telling you. I have NEVER seen myself as a "poor little minority" and for you to use such term is again insulting and ignorant. I bet that you can’t see that.  You may not realize it, but most of them  are actually on your side. Nobody needs more enemies but you seem to be doing your level best to create them out of

allies. I am not looking enemies but if I object to the things I hear, see or read, I react to it, just as you have reacted to my message.  And I would appreciate it if you do not  tell me otherwise. Oh and if you want to throw a few racist comments my way to make yourself feel better I am 1/2 English, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 Scandinavian and 1/8 Blackfoot Indian (native American). So "Pommy Bastard" works as does "Chug", "Mick", "Tomahawk", or "Honky". Or if you would prefer call me four eyes, that works too. Or if you want, call me another name that rhymes with my last name Cooper. when I was a kid, everyone thought pooper was pretty funny, and stooper was right up there as well.

Seems to me that you really like to be verbally abused and "throwing a few racist comments your way" will certainly NOT make me feel better. I have better things to to, like, tying a big wooley bugger.  Find someone else that knows you well enough to do that for you.  There is really no need for you to describe yourself in detail:  I am really NOT interested in knowing you. I am sorry that people called you names when you were a kid and I promise you that I won’t do that to you. I only objected to Kevin Bennett’s use of the "c" word in his joke.  I might find it funny if I have known him personally.  But the use the "c" word,  as you like it or not, is inappropriate and I do not appreciate it.  There is no way I will sit quietly so that others can insult me. gone fishing

Response:

Hey Jimmy sorry about the c word.  I was playing off the comment "This is rec.outdoors.fishing.fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical". by making an obviously racial, opinionated, foolish and farcical joke.  It was way funnier when I had six pints of Caplilano Ale in me. I’m not all that bad a guy, and I’m not racist. I hate ‘em all equally <joke Back to fly fishing…… KB

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of an island with good fly fishing in the Caribbean? I’m specifically talking about the Eastern Caribbean, the islands they call the Lesser Antilles. My wife wants to go on vacation there, and I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to do while she lies on the beach… Thanks for any help. Simon Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The Virgin Islands have a few flats. St John is actually very nice is many ways. You have to be careful though. I was held up at gun point in St Thomas last year when fishing probably the best flat which is off a beach that only locals go to. St John does not have that problem and is mostly a national park. I. Clair

Response:

Question:

Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

Dave,         Try this link.   http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms.htm         Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

www.goldenwitch.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave,         Try this link. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms.htm         Scott Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

O.K. I want to build a cane rod so I need to get some planing forms.  I have found metal forms for sale from $300 to $900 and I have read plans on how to make hardwood forms. I don’t mind spending the money for metal forms if they are worth it, and I don’t mind making hardwood forms if I have too, but I’d like to know what others have found before I make a decision.  What’s the best way to go? BTW, does anyone sell pre-built hardwood forms?

Response:

writes: I don’t mind spending the money for metal forms if they are worth it, and I don’t mind making hardwood forms if I have too, but I’d like to know what others have found before I make a decision.  What’s the best way to go?

Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

    As you have found there is a broad range ($wise) in available planing forms. An overview would be this – the entry level forms are within .0015" accuracy – which for the beginer is as close as most will work – the top end forms as as  accurate as they come .0005".     The decision is a personal one – the entry level forms can be final tuned (about 3 hours of filing) to be as accurate as the high end ones. If interested in the details please e-mail me off the list – the best address properly.     FYI – if you aren’t aware of it there is a e-mail repeater especailly for bamboo rodmaking – the rodmakers list – you can find information of how to subscribe to the list at home1.gte.net/jfoster/ .     Additionally there are several get togethers these days for the rodmaker or would be rodmakers (beginners are always welcome) – excellent information is exchanged and they are very social – the one I’m most familiar with is the one in Grayrock (aka Grayling, MI) – officially the dates this year are June 25, 26 – unofficially it starts June 19 (  permission slip form the spouse required) – the Grayrock group might best be describes as a friendly group that hangs out on the tailgate of a pickup truck – having a good time – sharing the craft of rodmaking – and yet raised close to $30,000 at the now world famous TTBBBQ. A combination of rod makers – fly fishing fourm folks (aka Single Malt Drinking Team) – and others locals that let their hair down a bit with activities such as the Sporting Flies Bribery Contest – The Makers Rod – Body Hair Auction – Fisherman Toss – and other assorted events. It’s About Fishin’ Not Fashion Another Wayne

Response:

Question:

… A good caster can get a good presentation with any good rod.

I’ll second that thought!  At $10/hour that extra $200 could have been spent fishing for 3 days.  This has the side benefit that after three days of fishing they would probably be a better caster. MikeH

Response:

Anne,         I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s. I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking.

If you’ve a nice open trail, I would agree, but I’ve taken my 2-piece and 4-piece backpacking.  The 4-piece is about the same size as the pack, therefore if it doesn’t hit your pack, it doesn’t hit your rod.  The two piece tends to stick out like a flagpole.  Go under anything and you can be sure you’ll bang into it.  After nearly taking a tumble into the Gorge (I would have hit I-84 first I won’t backpack with anything less than a 4-piece. My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Response:

Our customers in Sacramento, CA have been buying more 3, 4 and now 5 piece rods every year. The multi piece rods cast some much better today than they did 20 to 30 years ago. Nine foot, three piece rods are the hottest thing going in northern California. We have around a hundred different 3, 4 and 5 piece rods to choose from in our store. We do stock about 200 different two piece fly rods as they are still very popular. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our customers in Sacramento, CA have been buying more 3, 4 and now 5 piece rods every year. The multi piece rods cast some much better today than they did 20 to 30 years ago. Nine foot, three piece rods are the hottest thing going in northern California. We have around a hundred different 3, 4 and 5 piece rods to choose from in our store. We do stock about 200 different two piece fly rods as they are still very popular. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

I think what Bill wants to say that there is basically no difference in performance between good 2 piece vs 3/4/5 piece rods. They might feel slightly different but I think that’s mor because you know it than you really feel it. I see *NO* reason to but a 2 piece today, the convenience and safety when packing, driving, flying, hiking etc. is unbeatable. Thomas — Thomas Urbig

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s. I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking.

Having also done quite a bit of hiking in the Sierra with a flyrod I have found that a sturdy flyrod tube also makes a decent walking staff.  I’ve found that I would generally prefer to carry the rod in a tube by hand instead of of strapping to a pack.  There have been a couple of occasions where I’ve slipped on some shale or a slick section along a streambed and I’ve just tossed the rod somewhere "safe" as I was going down. John Fereira

Response:

There is a much wider choice of 4-piece than 3-piece. I have tried Loomis IMX 4-t. in 2- and 4-piece. Tremendous difference in feeling(4-piece feels much heavier) but casting length did not differ much. Then I tried Scott STS. It was practically impossible to distinguish between 2-piece and 4-piece. I do not think there is a general answer to your question. It depends on brand an model. You  m u s t  try before you buy! Regards Jan Erik Frithjofsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

Response:

Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole.

Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

Response:

Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

I use  two piece rods in a rod case stiff enough to double as a walking stick. I’ve never been in a situation where I needed to break a rod down into shorter pieces. . . Maybe if you’re hiking over the course of a week or so, and getting into desolate country where you just don’t want to be carrying a rod in hand. But I’ve always been fine with carrying a rod to go fishing. . . two pieces have a much nicer action than three or four. I suggest a mid priced rod –in the $90 – $100 range until you can explain to the salesperson what it is you need and why. For trout, a medium fast action, nine feet, in a five or six weight. A good basic rod –in two pieces. BTW I have an eight foot in 3 – 4 wt. a nine foot in 6 wt. for trout, and a nine in 8 wt. for steelhead. All good quality graphite, all about $100. And I’ve been doing this fly fishing stuff for about three decades now, love pulling the fish out of the holding area just thrashed by the guy with the $300 Sage without a single rise. A good caster can get a good presentation with any good rod. A good rod won’t help a poor caster make a good presentation.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking. If you’ve a nice open trail, I would agree, but I’ve taken my 2-piece and 4-piece backpacking.  The 4-piece is about the same size as the pack, therefore if it doesn’t hit your pack, it doesn’t hit your rod.  The two piece tends to stick out like a flagpole.  Go under anything and you can be sure you’ll bang into it.  

That’s what I meant by easy hiking.  Open trails and scaling rock walls, no ducking under things.  But yeah, it is like a flagpole.  But a nice place to hang a sweaty bandana. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole.

Response:

Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

        Most overheads will take up to 48" . So most three piece rods will fit.                  Harv

Response:

Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

I have a 3 and a 4 pc. and both will fit in overheads. However the 4 pc. will fit inside most of my luggage, whereas the 3 pc. will not, and I don’t feel like buying new luggage. So when I fly I bring the 4 pc., while I stow the 3 pc. on the boat.                                                                 jc

Response:

Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

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Question:

I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Response:

I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Hi Jan, I’ve found all of the St Croix fly rod to be very good including the 4 piece rods.  I’ve cast several of the their 4 piece rods and liked them but I never paid much attention to the actual name. Sorry! — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Hi Jan,  I own 2 St Croix flyrods, a 2pc 7′ 3wt, and because I was so impressed with that one, I bought their Imperial Series 4pc 5/6wt. In my opinion, they are a "best buy" for the money. The Legend you ask about is their top-end fly rod, a little more expensive than the Imperial Series. I also own 5 Sage rods, so I have a fair basis for comparison. Considering the cost of a Sage, unless you absolutely have to have the best, the St Croix is the better buy. Now all you have to decide is whether you like the action of the rod. The Legend has a fast action (44 million modulus) while the Imperial is listed as a moderate action (42 mil mod) The difference in price between the Imperial and Legend travel rods is $135 vs $220. BTW, my 5/6 travel rod handled some very tough smallmouth bass this summer with no problems. It rides in my pickup truck behind the seat everywhere I go. Tight lines……. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen Hi Jan,  I own 2 St Croix flyrods, a 2pc 7′ 3wt, and because I was so impressed with that one, I bought their Imperial Series 4pc 5/6wt. In my opinion, they are a "best buy" for the money. The Legend you ask about is their top-end fly rod, a little more expensive than the Imperial Series. I also own 5 Sage rods, so I have a fair basis for comparison. Considering the cost of a Sage, unless you absolutely have to have the best, the St Croix is the better buy. Now all you have to decide is whether you like the action of the rod. The Legend has a fast action (44 million modulus) while the Imperial is listed as a moderate action (42 mil mod) The difference in price between the Imperial and Legend travel rods is $135 vs $220. BTW, my 5/6 travel rod handled some very tough smallmouth bass this summer with no problems. It rides in my pickup truck behind the seat everywhere I go. Tight lines……. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

A correction to my post…the Imperial rods are 33 million modulus, not 42 as stated previously. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

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Question:

I have lost the info on how to unsubscribe please tell me how thanks Serge

Response:

I have lost the info on how to unsubscribe please tell me how

You cannot subscribe or unsubscribe from an open newsgroup (e.g. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  It is always there, whether you go into it or not.  If you have used your Internet node software to select some "favourite" newsgroups that are speedily retrieved for you, you should be able to revise it to suit yourself. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I have lost the info on how to unsubscribe please tell me how thanks Serge

functions of the software that you’re using.  For instance, in Navigator, you just ‘uncheck’ the group name. — Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON, Canada **new**     http://home.ican.net/~rlundy/

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Question:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Response:

The definitive book on custom rod building is : Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens publisher is Winchester Press. Can be bought through any mail order catalog that sells rod building supplies. — Dave

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In my opinnion "Start to Finish Fly rod Building" (50 pages) published by the FlexCoat Company is more than sufissient to do a very good first-time job. If you fall in love with rod building you can buy the more comprehensive stuff. I bought it from Anglers Workshop, WA. Good Luck Jan errik Frithjofsen I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking

through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building<< A very good book with excellent photographs of the building process including many close ups  is Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod by Louis Garcia, published by Frank Amato Publications, it sells for $15.95.  This is an excellent book for the first time builder.  It walks you through the process from start to finish in a clear and precise manner. A.G.W. Manchester, NH

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

A good book is one by Skip Morris on building graphite fly rods.  Also check mail order houses who specialize in rod building (e.g., Dale Clemens in Allentown, PA)

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras?

Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

I have had great sucess with the thinner of the two Flex Coat formulations.. After you build a rod them away. Replacement syringes are cheap insurance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods!

I am surprised that no one commented on a simpler solution to pulling the thread through and cutting it off with a sharp knife/ razorblade/ X-acto knife/ etc. You can use the same method but leave the end of the thraed rather short, let’s say 1/8th. of an inch. If you pull this short end back under the last 10 wraps or so none of it will come out and you won’t have to bother with trimming the end off or singing it or having an unsightly stump. It may not always work but it really is quite simple. Good luck! Tom Hackmann

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

I have a question about the two part epoxy. I built two rods and the first one went fine because I used the syringes provided with the Crystal Coat to measure the two parts. The second rod is still tacky after 4 months, probably because the measurement of the Coat was incorrect. Why? Because the two measuring syringes were all gunked up from the first use.  So two questions. 1. How do you clean the syringes? No I didn’t mix the two. 2. Where do you buy new syringes without buying an entire new package of Clear Coat?

Response:

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

The directions on the Flex Coat I’ve been practicing with says not to clean the syringes.  I think it says to simply store them seperately in air tight containers.  I have not gone back to look at them since I put them in zip lock baggies, so I’m not sure if I’ll face the same problem you had or not.  As far as extras, the mail order companies (e.g. Angler’s Workshop, Jans) seem to have the best prices on these type of supplies.

Response:

—— snip ——- : : I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? I was told by the guys at Flexcoat to use alcohol to clean the syringes. I have also read in Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens that you can thin the Flexcoat up to 15% to make it thiner. I store my syringes in mid-stroke after cleaning. Oh, Netcrafter’s sells them seperately including the mixing cups. Keep your feet dry, — Bob San Jose, Ca

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Andy If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

Response:

: Andy : : If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly : recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very : pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make : the job easier. : : To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, : then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. : : To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to : make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or : so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end : of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. : Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the : thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no : end showing. : : Just take your time, nothing is difficult. : : Chuck Chuck, I agree with every thing you have read, and I used to wrap that way. I had seen a wrapping tool in Herter’s catalog back in the late forties that I copied. This Christmas my kids gave me a Flo-coat wrapping tool. You don’t need it but it is nice. Netcrafter has them in their cat cheap. The thing I found was a copy of L.A. Garcia’s book "Hand crafting a Graphite Rod". It has some very nice photos (examlpes) of tools that can be copied. Something worth making _or_ purchasing is a whip finisher. I would never use a razor blade to cut the line for fear pf nicking the graphite and setting up a stress point for a fracture. Garcia states that if you pull evenly on the finisher and the thread end, the thread will break and in the process the finisher will come out also. Instead of using the same thread to tug the whip under the wrap, I’d suggest some monofiliment of about 15 lb. Just some additional thoujghts, — Bob San Jose, Ca

Response:

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods! Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wooden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing.

Consider that a wooden dowel will behave differently wrt absorption of the epoxy/varnish and wrt the way the wraps slide (and are manipulated) on the blank. It is always better to practice on something as close to the target as possible; it is always better to practice on something than not to practice at all. — Office:     Denver, Colorado  1-303-595-2864 Home:       Bailey, Colorado

Response:

Thought I’d add a couple of things. See below. snip Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs.

One of the keys to working with Flex-coat type finishes or other epoxies is consistent temperature.  I like to work in the 75 degree (F) range and keep an aquarium thermometer on my work surface.  A normal desk lamp will keep the temp consistent and can its height can be adjusted accordingly (if your epoxy starts smoking, your area is too hot )  Keep the light on throughout the curing process.   Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

So he uses the guitar string to cut the thread?  I think I’ll stick to a razor blade.  The blade should cut the thread with the slightest touch.  If it doesn’t, change blades.  On wraps in general, be consistent from guide to guide. Keep count of the number of turns.  If you take 10 turns before jumping on to the foot, do it on all the guides the same way.  Attention to detail is key. Relax, your rod’s going to fish fine when you’re done.   Ross

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 My question is:  instead of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wodden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing. The most difficult aspect of the process, IMO, is wrapping, especially if you are fussy about appearance.  Which leads to your last question: I haven’t heard of that technique before, but it sounds like it will result in frayed thread ends sticking out of the wraps.  A neater solution is to pull up on the thread end at a 90 degree angle to the blank and cut with a very sharp exacto knofe as close to the wraps as possible.  More often than not, the cut end is snaps back under the wrap.

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| Hello All: | | my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of | risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice | rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP | | Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   | what should I practice? | Andy OK I was in this position about 8 months ago.  Since then I have built two rods, a Loomis IM6 8′ 6wt and a IMX 9′ 9wt.  I dont think you need to practice on anything cheaper than what you want to fish with.  There is no magic to building a graphite rod, and you really don’t need any of the stands that are sold as wrapping stands.  I used the Morris book which explained everything well enough.  I used the dish method to hold the thread and a Law book for tensioning.  Wraps are comparatively easy to do and you can redo any of them if you feel they are not up to par untill you flex coat them.  I did a couple of wraps on a dowell to get the hang of it.  Finishing a wrap by pulling it under the last 1/2 dozen wraps with another piece of string then I cut it flush with a new X-acto blade.  I can’t tell the diference between my wraps and Loomis Sage et al and I’m pretty picky.  Things get a bit tricky if you want to include embedded trim rings but you probably won’t bother on your first attempt. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is a inlayed wrap of only one thread.         The only thing I havn’t done is apply the flex coat myself (the place I bought everything else will flex coat as a service).  I did buy some and I did a wrap on a section of a metal rod and coat it.  It came out OK not meny bubbles – and I wasn’t being careful in the mixing process – decided to let the store do it because hand turning it was a pain in the you-know-what and I didn’t want to buy a turner then.  I’m currently making a turner out of an old electric clock and I’ll do everything myself next time (I’ll still buy preformed grips). Good luck and have fun. PVM — / Paul V. Moruzzi                                                       | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD)                                     | | Hewlett Packard                           HP Telnet: 1-659-7850       | | 3000 Minuteman Road                           Voice: 1-508-659-7850   | | Andover, Ma.  01810-1099                        Fax: 1-508-685-5372   |

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

The first rod I built was on a cheap ($60) blank from a now defunct company. Everything worked fine, the glue jobs all held, etc., but there were some cosmetic touches that were beyond my capability at the time, so naturally I went on to build another and so on and so :- I don’t get too gaudy, in fact I don’t even use a trim band anymore, but I do like a single inlaid thread at the butt and at each ferrule. At first getting these right was maddening and very time consuming, but failure doesn’t wreck the blank, so you can start over again. By the time I bought a good blank I’d built 3 or 4 rods and it came out exactly like I wanted it to. Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice?

Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs. Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, so there. 4" crappie KING. Mark

Oh yeah!!  *I* was learning to fly fish and was casting onto a pond the size of most people’s driveways, when this Bluegill took the wiggly-green- legged floating fly I had selected to practice with (easy to see).  The hook was about a #8 (big for a fly), and the Bluegill was *exactly* 2 inches long… Brian — Brian Dixon, Machine Vision Engineer, Hewlett Packard (Corvallis, Oregon)

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  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"   red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.   The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.   The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —      _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer  

I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, so there. 4" crappie KING. Mark

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:  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3" :  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish. : :  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin. :   :  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. :   :   : : — :     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo : |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   : : I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about : their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) : I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, : so there. : 4" crappie KING. : Mark I got a small trout (1" ) on a pheasant tail nymph last thursday. It was a hell of a fight. Thought I never would get it up! He/she was in fine condition so I released it after. Actually I didn’t know I had a fish on until I had made two or three dry casts. But I got a lot of big trouts and growlings (I think its the name in english) — – Peter Aberg         –     _____.              - – S-302 33 HALMSTAD   –              /          - + Tel:46-35-187617    +          O  /           +               – http://www.hh.se:7777/       Flyfish          -  ____        __                   /  _`     / __                 L __ ,_    __   _ __     /  __/ _/  __/ /     _ ____\ __ ____\ _

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3" :  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish. : :  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin. :   :  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. :   :   : : — :     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo : |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   : : I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about : their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) : I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, : so there. : 4" crappie KING. : Mark I got a small trout (1" ) on a pheasant tail nymph last thursday. It was a hell of a fight. Thought I never would get it up! He/she was in fine condition so I released it after. Actually I didn’t know I had a fish on until I had made two or three dry casts. But I got a lot of big trouts and growlings (I think its the name in english) —

Well here’s mine. :^) I caught a 4" perch on a 9" swim whiz while trolling for muskies last Sat. He wasn’t foul hooked either he was hooked in the upper lip by a single hook from the middle treble. BTW Thanks to all the folks who took time to respond to my question about fronts. I will remember the good advice. Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Peter Aberg         –     _____.              - – S-302 33 HALMSTAD   –              /          - + Tel:46-35-187617    +          O  /           +           – http://www.hh.se:7777/       Flyfish          - ____        __                   /  _`     / __                 L __ ,_    __   _ __     /  __/ _/  __/ /   _ ____\ __ ____\ _

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I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each… Scott Goodwin — |      /|~~~ |EAT. SLEEP. FISH.   "PLAY BALL!" (my 2 favorite words)

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I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each…

I’ve never seen a (yellow) perch smaller than 6", but I have caught those little rock bass.  They are especially aggressive from dusk to darkness. I have a bag of #22 hooks in my tacklebox, along with some 1 lb line.  I have caught redbreast sunfish less than an in with this setup. Just this past Sunday I caught 5 3" striped bass from a small estuary of the Long Island sound.  They were so cute, I wanted to take them home and put them in an aquarium, but they were about 33" short of the 36" minimum! Scott Goodwin — |      /|~~~ |EAT. SLEEP. FISH.   "PLAY BALL!" (my 2 favorite words)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each… I’ve never seen a (yellow) perch smaller than 6", but I have caught those little rock bass.  They are especially aggressive from dusk to darkness. I have a bag of #22 hooks in my tacklebox, along with some 1 lb line.  I have caught redbreast sunfish less than an in with this setup. Just this past Sunday I caught 5 3" striped bass from a small estuary of the Long Island sound.  They were so cute, I wanted to take them home and put them in an aquarium, but they were about 33" short of the 36" minimum!

I’ve got a place on the Winnipeg River in Manitoba, and my dock sits in a small bay used by little feeders while they’re growing up. I use the smallest hook I have, stick a bit of worm on it, and it gets hit within 30 seconds every time. Usually yellow perch 3 or 4 inches long, the odd 6 inch walleye, the odd bass.  Of course the only time we do this is when I’m teaching my two year old son how to fish. He just beams every time he gets one! Plus they hit so light, the hook only gets them in the lip, so we’ve never (to my knowledge) done serious damage to one. Later, when asked how big his fish was, he stands up on his tip-toes and raises his hand high above his head – he’s gonna be a heckuva fisherman.

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