Question:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Vic: Not to worry about Elk. They don’t come to the refuge till late Oct/Nov. Sounds like your times are OK…..George  ( enjoy  )

Response:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Response:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Vic:  Access is easy at cut out parking along side the Elk refuge. Put on gear and walk to Flat Creek(couple hundred yards).My son lives in Jackson and fishes the creek often.He has not mentioned it being dry. I can’t see that hapening frankly.We will be there next month. I have fished the creek an it is the PHD of fly fishing. Fish are VERY spooky. You can wade easily although I have never seen anyone do it cause you spook the fish. Best to sneak along the bank so as not to be seen and cast from there.There are some really BIG fish in it, but probably by now they’ve seen about every fly in existance. Creek is never crowded–that’s not the problem…the fish are SMART. Good luck…sincerely. I’d be interested in your outcome. George Reber

Response:

Thanks George! September is Elk mating season, no clanking about, eh. I’ll give it a try from the bank. Fish usually rise around 11:00 AM, and return for the evening hatch around 4:00 PM? Tight lines, Vic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic Vic:  Access is easy at cut out parking along side the Elk refuge. Put on gear and walk to Flat Creek(couple hundred yards).My son lives in Jackson and fishes the creek often.He has not mentioned it being dry. I can’t see that hapening frankly.We will be there next month. I have fished the creek an it is the PHD of fly fishing. Fish are VERY spooky. You can wade easily although I have never seen anyone do it cause you spook the fish. Best to sneak along the bank so as not to be seen and cast from there.There are some really BIG fish in it, but probably by now they’ve seen about every fly in existance. Creek is never crowded–that’s not the problem…the fish are SMART. Good luck…sincerely. I’d be interested in your outcome. George Reber

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Question:

      all i can say is this:  whatever else you can say about this newsgroup and its members, we will never be convicted upon a bill of indictment charging normalcy. Normalcy?  Is that like normality or molality or molarity or morality? Nope, ain’t got none of those around here.  Moe Larry Curly, maybe.

I still got a couple of molars.  Got no moles though.  How many Avogadros does it take to make guacamole?

Response:

How many Avogadros does it take to make guacamole?

Nyuk, nyuk.  Oh, a wise guy!

Response:

this is what ken’s post made me think about…  i need to go fishing soon as the therapy is done…

(snip remarkable behavior) jeff

        all i can say is this:  whatever else you can say about this newsgroup and its members, we will never be convicted upon a bill of indictment charging normalcy. wayno

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   all i can say is this:  whatever else you can say about this newsgroup and its members, we will never be convicted upon a bill of indictment charging normalcy.

Normalcy?  Is that like normality or molality or molarity or morality?   Nope, ain’t got none of those around here.  Moe Larry Curly, maybe. Mu

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this is what ken’s post made me think about…  i need to go fishing soon as the therapy is done… …there’s a fella i know in watauga county, nc, called tom or coleman or tc, depending on which creditor is looking for him.  he’s about 55 or 65…age is difficult to decipher from the faces and physiques of the native mountain folk. he was born and grew up in the valley through which elk creek runs.  after his father died or left, his mother re-married a fellow named coy, who is probably not as old as her son. she’s disabled, and they live beside elk creek inside a loose collection of boards supporting a leaky roof. they had a garden and some chickens to supplement their government checks.  rumor had it that the chicken house, which was affixed to the residence, had a doorway to the interior of the home so coy didn’t have to go outside for chickens nor eggs.   tom’s a hunter and does some fishing when he’s not scratching out a living doing odd-jobs or meeting his obligations at his church in triplett, nc. there’s no philosophy or beauty to his efforts…kill em or catch em, and eat em.  simple. a fly rod isn’t efficient enough for his purposes. although he used to travel and play with a bluegrass band, now he mainly enjoys playing the banjo and guitar at church services.  tom’s related to doc watson, who lives just up the road in deep gap…he doesn’t drink or cuss, but he chews bakker and spits in public. …in the "Southern Extracts" section of my sunday paper was the following statement of mack brown, of carson springs, tennessee, excerpted from "The Serpent Handlers: Three Families and Their Faith" by Fred Brown and Jeanne McDonald:         "…I’ve heard many church members say that, say they’d like to go by a snakebite. Punkin said he’d rather go that way as any other way, and the only reason we questioned his death is that we just felt from the beginning that wasn’t what killed him.  With Melinda, it was the snakebite that killed her.  With Jim Ray [Williams], when he died, it was just a matter of thirty minutes or so.  There wasn’t no way around it.  Now, Brother Prince, I’m not sure.  His [death] was sort of like Melinda’s.  See, he had drunk strychnine, too.  So I’m not real sure which one caused his.         Punkin always said it didn’t matter to him if he went by snakebite or a car wreck.  … The only reluctance to say that it was the snakebite that got Punkin is because he died too fast for the type of bite he had.  It would have been all right if it had been the serpent.  That would have been accepted as well as anything else.  We’d accepted, right at the shock of it. But then once we seen him [in the video of the service], how and where it bit him, and the type of bite he had, and as fast as he died, then we just said there was no way.  If it had bit him and really sunk into his hand or his arm or somewhere fleshy where it could get in and really bite, then we could have understood it.  In a place where it didn’t really bite him hard – the finger – we just couldn’t accept that.  And to die in five minutes, there is no way.  Out being in the wild – somebody not in church or [who doesn't] even know anything about the Lord or anything and gets bit in a good place – they won’t die that fast.         If the serpent bites you and you die, then for us, that is God’s will for taking you out.  It doesn’t matter whether it was a car wreck, snakebite, heart attack, stroke.  It was God’s will, and you were going that day, that hour, that minute.  And Punkin was going that day.  There is no question in my mind. No doubt about it. Nope. See, his heart’s desire was to go preaching the Word.  In the last few years, he said when he died, he wanted to go feeling what he’s feeling.  He usually said it when he was preaching.  He said, ‘When I die, I want to go feeling the Lord.  I want to feel this annointing.’  He felt like if you didn’t feel that when you died, it wasn’t there to carry you over.  So [the annointing] would keep you from feeling any harm." jeff

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Question:

Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins? apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right? Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available. Could a person bring their own boat? Am I a day late and a dollar short? ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

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John writes: Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins?

There is room in Steve Zimmerman’s cabin. apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right?

Right. Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available.

The campfrounds and the campgrounds close the week before the clave.   Could a person bring their own boat?

Yes. Am I a day late and a dollar short?

No. ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

If you want to go to the clave, John, I can probably get you in.  But, remember, the "coupon" is not good for the clave.  Pick a time….. Dave

Response:

Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…. ….any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

John, there is a campsite very close to Middle Dam and Lakewood Camps that is administered by the South Arm Campground. http://www.atlanticcapitalcorp.com/southarm/index.html South Arm, the main campground, closes on Monday September 11. There is a possibility they could be talked into letting us use the wilderness campsite for the rest of the week, though. I have talked with the guy and he seems agreeable enough. It takes a boat to get from South Arm to the campsite, it’s about four miles. If, and this is a BIG if, I can make it I’d be staying at that campsite with Kristine & Kipper the hound. I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in. What kinda boat you got ? — Ken Fortenberry

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John,  It’s a long tradition in Maine to just pull over on a dirt road and camp, if the camps Ken mentioned don’t want you on their plot, just find a nice clear spot and setup. As long as you don’t build a campfire you will not be hassled about it. Back when I had a pickup with a cap, and not the ‘dadmobile’ that I drive today, I often just camped in the bed of the truck.  I’m probably coming up to the clave for a day and a night (dates are TBD) and will probably be using my tried and true just find a wide spot in the road and camp technique. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins? apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right? Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available. Could a person bring their own boat? Am I a day late and a dollar short? ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

Response:

Hmmmmmm…..curiouser and curiouser….I’ve got a 16′ aluminum with a 35 horse motor….floor, bass seats, steering wheel,,,(or is it tiller?)…… You can stop in and pick up my boat and then I’ll fly out and you can pick me up at the airport!!!!!! that or we’ll let the girls tow it and *we’ll* fly out!….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…. ….any boddy into the travel buddy thing? John, there is a campsite very close to Middle Dam and Lakewood Camps that is administered by the South Arm Campground. http://www.atlanticcapitalcorp.com/southarm/index.html South Arm, the main campground, closes on Monday September 11. There is a possibility they could be talked into letting us use the wilderness campsite for the rest of the week, though. I have talked with the guy and he seems agreeable enough. It takes a boat to get from South Arm to the campsite, it’s about four miles. If, and this is a BIG if, I can make it I’d be staying at that campsite with Kristine & Kipper the hound. I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in. What kinda boat you got ? — Ken Fortenberry

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I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in.

Now yer usin the ol noggin.  If Kristine is actually your wife, then maybe I should take some pointers from you – I’m just practicing for it right now, trying to "sell" the Maine trip Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

A couple of young ladies from the college are taking Mac Browns fly fishing class  and they want to come over an talk about the size of rods.

The instructor probably told them "There’s nothing like holding a nice, stiff rod in your hands."  (Direct quote by the way from an instructor I heard several years ago.) Regards, Jeff

Response:

They will probably want to put article in school newspaper  after Big Dale and I meat with them  and offer sage adventure suggestions.

        after you and big dale "meat" with them, their next stop will undoubtedly be the district attorney’s office.  you know about your miranda rights and my phone number, don’t you?       Was going to kill Old Bob { the burro] today but he must of pooped out during the night. I chased the buzzards away this morning and my  squaw is  hanging parts on trees outside to cure. Chili will be ready for everyone Tuesday night. Indian Joe  Wilmington NC

        my god.  my first meal at the clave is likely to be the last meal of my life.         wayno, serious as a cerebral hemmorrage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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out during the night. I chased the buzzards away this morning and my squaw is  hanging parts on trees outside to cure. Chili will be ready for everyone Tuesday night.  Indian Joe  Wilmington NC

IJ, looking forward to the chili!  If I see anything along the road on the way down which might compliment the fixin’s I’ll be sure and scrape it up and throw it in the trunk.  Now, no more of those "my rod is bigger’n your rod"  "is not" "is too" "is not" "is too" discussions. After all, size doesn’t matter, its the technique! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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It was touch and go for quite a while with my plans changing daily, but now all has come to a final resolution and I will be able to attend the "MAY CLAVE". I will miss the BBQ but will be there for the CHILI. Plan to leave Monday morning and arrive in Foscoe early afternoon. I have also finally fully recovered from a bout with the Chernobyl computer virus that wiped out my HD. Really looking forward to meeting, fishing and learning. jim

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 Really looking forward to meeting, fishing and learning. jim

        so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.  but we’re happy to have you, anyway. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.   wayno

Who could pass up a chance to meet "The rain man" (Ken) or fish with local "Legends" (Walt and Jeff) and learn to "Tie a flat turkey" (Dave La) My other option was hemorrhoid surgery…..it was a tough decision. jim

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Taking ‘em out or putting ‘em in?                 Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My other option was hemorrhoid surgery…..it was a tough decision. jim

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Really looking forward to meeting, fishing and learning. jim    so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.  but we’re happy to have you, anyway.

You beat me to the punchline – it was begging for it, wasn’t it? Regards, Jeff

Response:

So Jim, you’re saying you have to choose between assholes? <bseg Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.   wayno Who could pass up a chance to meet "The rain man" (Ken) or fish with local "Legends" (Walt and Jeff) and learn to "Tie a flat turkey" (Dave La) My other option was hemorrhoid surgery…..it was a tough decision. jim

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 Really looking forward to meeting, fishing and learning. jim         so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.  but we’re happy to have you, anyway. wayno

…the first bit of learnin will be trying to find clave central… i’m lookin forward to the stories of the misguided and lost, i.e., those who thought it’d be easy locating mill ridge because it’s across the road from the orvis shop… my bet is most will never even notice the orvis shop.  course, me and tom and waldo know right where to go, and we’ll keep the food warm and the beer chilled…HAHAHA… btw wayno…talked with jim last night…he didn’t sound like he was gonna come up. i told him he and JB could stay at my place for the weekend…you might need to nudge him some more. jeff

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so, obviously, you have post-clave plans.   wayno Who could pass up a chance to meet "The rain man" (Ken) or fish with local "Legends" (Walt and Jeff) and learn to "Tie a flat turkey" (Dave La) My other option was hemorrhoid surgery…..it was a tough decision. jim

hell, jim…you can get that little problem taken care of at the clave, too. just listen for the banjo music… jeff

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btw wayno…talked with jim last night…he didn’t sound like he was gonna come up. i told him he and JB could stay at my place for the weekend…you might need to nudge him some more.

Tell him Forty grew a ponytail and is calling himself "Fort Pamlico"<g. — Charlie…

Response:

btw wayno…talked with jim last night…he didn’t sound like he was gonna come up. i told him he and JB could stay at my place for the weekend…you might need to nudge him some more. Tell him Forty grew a ponytail and is calling himself "Fort Pamlico"<g. — Charlie…

…already told jim that forty claimed he could outfish him and beat him arm wrestling while chugging wild turkey…but your suggestion just might do it… jeff

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btw wayno…talked with jim last night…he didn’t sound like he was gonna come up. i told him he and JB could stay at my place for the weekend…you might need to nudge him some more. Tell him Forty grew a ponytail and is calling himself "Fort Pamlico"<g. — Charlie…

        what a riot.  but, otoh, why don’t *you* tell him that.  i’ll just wait in the car. wayno

Response:

Rained out tennis last night so I read the 600 posts on roff.  Sounds  like we will be discussing microsoft spam  and doctors sticking fingers up your ass  during the evening clave sessions. A couple of young ladies from the college are taking Mac Browns fly fishing class  and they want to come over an talk about the size of rods.  They will probably want to put article in school newspaper  after Big Dale and I meat with them  and offer sage adventure suggestions.        Was going to kill Old Bob { the burro] today but he must of pooped out during the night. I chased the buzzards away this morning and my  squaw is  hanging parts on trees outside to cure. Chili will be ready for everyone Tuesday night.  Indian Joe  Wilmington NC

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Question:

Last fall I had the good fortune of meeting a gentleman at a local craft fair in NH who had a 6′x6′ display of pictures of some amazing size fish that he had caught. I guessed he was a hunter and fisherman of some sort, but it turned out that he was a Bush Pilot for many years, taking people in and out of remote areas in Canada. He had pictures and pictures of 10+ pound brook trout and deer with simply huge racks. I was amazed. He said he had gone where few people ever get a chance to go in a lifetime, and he was bursting with excitement and pride when he told his stories. He had since stopped bush piloting, due to health concerns, but his dream is to once again get back into a plane, or at the very least help some people who need information about adverturing into these remote spots. The amazing pictures he showed me, reminded me of my childhood days when I used to go hiking and fishing in the remote mountain streams of Vermont and catch some wonderful spring brook trout myself. I understood why he was so excited to tell his stories. At the time, my girlfriend and I were putting together a website to sell Vermont products, and even though he is from NH, we agreed to help him promote his book, Adventures of a Bush Pilot, through our site. If anyone is interested in Bush Piloting information or perhaps Mr. Laporte’s book, Adventures of a Bush Pilot, you can send us an email, or visit our website. The book is accessible through a link on our site’s left sidebar. Mr. Laporte would be glad to share his bush piloting advice as well. Thanks, Rick and Susan Vermonters at heart! http://www.piecesofvermont.com Before you buy.

Response:

Based on the topic, I’m going to share an experience I heard of a bush pilot. A friend and co-worker of mine was born and raised in Alaska.  He has his ASEL certificate and was constantly flying into hard to reach areas to do some serious hunting and fishing.  On one occasion, he landed on a sandbar in a nearly dried up river bed in order to hunt along the waterline.  Well, it so happens that the FAA somehow witnessed him landing there and cited him for not having the proper certificate to fly the model plane.  In other words, because he landed a river bed, the FAA cited him for flying a sea-plane without being certified for airplane, single engine sea.  But, the plane has was flying had wheels and was normally considered a "land plane." (I wish I could remember the actual plane.)  What are your impressions about being cited for operating a plane that you are certified to operate? Remember, it was a "land" plane and he landed on the dried river bed, not the water. — Sometimes opportunity pounds. Open the door; Link Below. http://www.rexall.com/nonprescriptionfortune Independent Business Owner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last fall I had the good fortune of meeting a gentleman at a local craft fair in NH who had a 6′x6′ display of pictures of some amazing size fish that he had caught. I guessed he was a hunter and fisherman of some sort, but it turned out that he was a Bush Pilot for many years, taking people in and out of remote areas in Canada. He had pictures and pictures of 10+ pound brook trout and deer with simply huge racks. I was amazed. He said he had gone where few people ever get a chance to go in a lifetime, and he was bursting with excitement and pride when he told his stories. He had since stopped bush piloting, due to health concerns, but his dream is to once again get back into a plane, or at the very least help some people who need information about adverturing into these remote spots. The amazing pictures he showed me, reminded me of my childhood days when I used to go hiking and fishing in the remote mountain streams of Vermont and catch some wonderful spring brook trout myself. I understood why he was so excited to tell his stories. At the time, my girlfriend and I were putting together a website to sell Vermont products, and even though he is from NH, we agreed to help him promote his book, Adventures of a Bush Pilot, through our site. If anyone is interested in Bush Piloting information or perhaps Mr. Laporte’s book, Adventures of a Bush Pilot, you can send us an email, or visit our website. The book is accessible through a link on our site’s left sidebar. Mr. Laporte would be glad to share his bush piloting advice as well. Thanks, Rick and Susan Vermonters at heart! http://www.piecesofvermont.com Before you buy.

Response:

He never told me who actually spotted him landing, but Alaska does have alternating regulations on when you can take your game depending on the time of year. For example:  When bear hunting, most of the time after the kill, the hunter must skin, gut, and package the bear meat, but not take it with on the first day.  But, during spawning season, the bears eat so much fish that the meat tastes fishy, so you can take the meat the same day it was killed.  I’ve never hunted in Alaska, so I can’t get more specific than restating stories that my friend has told me. I’ll email him and see if I can get him into this newsgroup. — Sometimes opportunity pounds. Open the door; Link Below. http://www.rexall.com/nonprescriptionfortune Independent Business Owner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re kidding right?  The rating says nothing about where you land, only what equipment you can fly. Now, if it was Fish and Game that watched him and he took game "same day airborne" he could be in "a heap of trouble". — Dale L. Falk Cessna 182A N5912B http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Response:

You’re kidding right?  The rating says nothing about where you land, only what equipment you can fly. Now, if it was Fish and Game that watched him and he took game "same day airborne" he could be in "a heap of trouble". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Based on the topic, I’m going to share an experience I heard of a bush pilot. A friend and co-worker of mine was born and raised in Alaska.  He has his ASEL certificate and was constantly flying into hard to reach areas to do some serious hunting and fishing.  On one occasion, he landed on a sandbar in a nearly dried up river bed in order to hunt along the waterline.  Well, it so happens that the FAA somehow witnessed him landing there and cited him for not having the proper certificate to fly the model plane.  In other words, because he landed a river bed, the FAA cited him for flying a sea-plane without being certified for airplane, single engine sea.  But, the plane has was flying had wheels and was normally considered a "land plane." (I wish I could remember the actual plane.)  What are your impressions about being cited for operating a plane that you are certified to operate? Remember, it was a "land" plane and he landed on the dried river bed, not the water.

– Dale L. Falk Cessna 182A N5912B http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

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Question:

I am looking to buy a used kick boat for fly fishing still waters mostly. It needs to be big enough to support aroud 300 lbs. Please email me directly if you have something you would consider selling. Michael Anderson THANKS!

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Are you a large fat person?

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Question:

If you are interested in joining The Tracy Fly Fishers on this classes please e-mail me .

I am very interested Rich. Let me know when and where… gig

Response:

I’d be interested in finding out more details about your course, as they become available. THis is one of the things I wish my club offered. Plus, $25 is more than reasonable. Roger Backlar Sierra Pacific Fly Fishers

Response:

Hi everyone , this summer as soon as the snow melts and the water levels turn to normal flows in the Sierra’s Mtn’s I plan on having a BUG course. At this point we are planning a class after July 4 , 1998 Due to the high interest in this course we will have at least three classes . If you are interested in joining The Tracy Fly Fishers on this classes please e-mail me . The course will be one day on the water with many staying the next day for fishing the Stanislaus River. The cost of $25 goes into our club general conservation fund. Thanks Rich Lobrovich 1998 President Tracy Fly Fishers

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Question:

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Response:

Question:

A good size brown beats them all. Just the take is enough for me, but the fight and all those minutes of wondering how big he really is. They just stick to the bottom with even, powerful pulls, just shy of breaking the leader. nothing beats this, Browns for me. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

Response:

(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly.

The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

Response:

I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW

Well conditioned sea-run cutts usually fight much like browns or brook trout; they tend to stay deep, pull hard and shake. They may jump a bit more However a fair number of fish become quite acrobatic and will also make good runs, making the reel scream. I have memories of a fair number of these that I took to be small coho. I remember one fish while working the spring time chum migration on the Harrison that body surfed down the wave of a boat wake to snatch my fly and promptly put in 5 or 6 consecutive jumps; sulked a bit then jumped a few more times. Ralph H

Response:

(Eric) writes:   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting   trout:   Eric

Steelhead. OK, next question… -tgades

Response:

 I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ?

I know what you mean, those little dudes I launch into the bushes behind me.  ZZZing!  Quite a surprise.  Poor fish, mindin’ his own bidness, when Bang! Zoom! to the moon! Anglerboy

Response:

Mulberry–not the Marlboro, now–which is tied to imitate a–you got it–mulberry.  But these are hardly fair comparisons.  The best stripe

Gee Dave, I have never of the Mulberry hatch!  ;-) -Burton

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Both choices are wild rainbows: 1- summer steelhead.  Not like a winter fish. The turbos are spun up,they’re taken on lighter tackle, and you may be able to sight-fish with dries.

<<< Yeah, it can be real fun watching a finning steelie turn his head and take your fly.  The most incredible sight I have ever seen was this huge 20+ lb. steelhead rise to an October Caddis on the Siletz.  It looked totally incongrous.  That head looked like a basketball. 2- native redside.  I’ll never forget a 17" Deschutes fish that I would have thought was a steelhead, if I wasn’t after the lead fish in a pod of rising trout.  Incredible fight! <<<

I like those big 20-25 pounders.  I have yet to land one.  They fight so different.  You bring them in a couple of times, then they run back out twenty or thirty yds. then go nuts like a chicken with it’s head cut off.  Then they are gone! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rainbow, without a doubt.  They hit like a train, leap, make strong runs.  Brown and cutthroats are great bulldoggers, and I have seen browns make some good leaps.  Nothing touches the rainbow/steelhead though. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones I am mostly a eastern fisherman so I don’t know what to expect from western trout but years back I was fishing a tiny stream in Utah that was filled with rainbows of 7-9 inches ( the local flyshop wasn’t even aware of the fishery) and I never battled such feisty fish before as these guys.They just wouldn’t give up…..I landed about 1/2 of what I hooked…… They were absolutely amazing !                                                                                        Jody

It sounds like you need to visit the Pacific Northwest Jody!  You would get the battle of your like from some of our brutes. -Burton

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….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

Yes, they usually hit me in the face. If I open my mouth I can eat them right then! DJones

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(Eric) says: : : I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting : trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow : because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns : also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and : hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other : flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. : : Eric : : my vote: : : 1) Gerard Strain Rainbows of Kootney Lake  BC; hands down : 2) Kamloops strain Rainbow of the South Interior of BC : : Gerard have the acrobatics and drive of any fish that swims plus : considerably more strength than any salmonid I’ve ever hooked; : including browns; various strains of cutts, Madison, Bow River and : Crowsnnest Rainbows; steelhead ; cohoe etc : : Kamloops fish combine great acrobatics and strength with are largely : insectorvious (sp) : I definitely second Eric’s vote.  The Kamloops trout is very widespread in Southeastern BC. and NE Washington State. – Keith

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The best fighting trout is the one you have on your line right now

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Eric

I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow trout. They run 12 to 22 inches and are hot as a pistol. They are a great fly rod fish and there are less of them every year. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows.

Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years. I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These

fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years.   I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Eric, I think the rainbow is a real acrobatic fighter while the brown is more like a bull dog.  Also the cutthroat, the brookie, and the golden all vie with each other over which is the most beautiful that depending water and environment. My favorite trout happens to be the one that’s on the end of the line but I do have a bit of a preference for Mr. Brown Trout. My favorite fish on a fly rod would be a large white fish or carp from the side channel in the lower Yellowstone River. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow

Umm, yeah I forgot about the half-pounders!  They are little silver missiles.  Probably the friskiest fish I’ve ever had on.  The Rogue is a great river.  They are protecting them now. -Burton

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow BTW–has anyone developed fly to imitate the fish-food-pellet hatch? It could float for a second then sink to the bottom where it would swell up DJones No, but I have seen some pretty novel approaches to "fly fishing".  On the

Metolius River I have seen a yellow Cheeto Fly and a white Bread-crumb Fly fished below the Allingham Bridge from which tourist types are prone to throw things in an effort to get a rise from a big fish.  It frequently works. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around TimW Yeah, the sea-run cutt’s are dynamite hear on the Oregon Coast.  However,

they have declined so bad it’s getting hard to find them.  I pick one up occasionally while targeting other fish.  They strike like it’s their last meal. Burton

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

My preference is the rainbow, since I like fish that jump.  Brown’s give you a nice tug of war, but that’s about all.  Then best of all is the sea-run rainbow, the steelhead.  I have had hens that I swear could tailwalk on the water. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince Yup, nice fighting fish!  One of the better strains for flyfishing.  They

originally came from the Washougal in Washington, but now are all over the place including Peru. -Burton

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. They can leap many times their own length out of the water and they run back and forth like their life depended on it. (Reminds me of my kid on too many snicker bars) And ya gotta hand it to them for their gusto going for that huge fly, it must look like a whole day

Question:

I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

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I have no idea who Tim Walker is, but I thought he was kinda funny. .02

: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. : John Nesselrode : Shawnee, KS — Burnaby, BC

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

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I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

Well,I’ve been watching this group for a couple of years.First thing I saw was Tim Walker enjoying for creation of this group.Ever since I’ve been enjoying his postings -not that i agreed everything he claimed- because his capability of making us see things from another view.If you’re a C&R fanatic and don’t think flyfishing is basically about killing fish,you could’ve found him irritating and offending (wouldn’t have been the first one…),but now he’s been gone(i hope not for permanently) me for sure i feel this group has lost something vital, some sort of counterforce to all this commercial,forgetting-the-real-thing flyfishing that has been coming so popular these days.All right,I’ve never fished in U.S. and do not know very much about your conditions,but if it’s anything like here in Finland,i think our sport is going to be something else what it used to be.Even C&R can not make it what it used to be,and maybe we should forget all those beautiful imag es that the film "the river runs through it" painted for us.We have to accept us being a part of flyfishing industry, sponsored by hi-tech manufacturers. Sorry I didn’t answer your question precisely,but was merely sharing my feelings. As a famous finnish author (J.Aho) once wrote some 80 years ago: "first time the trout took my fly,I knew it was me hooked,not the fish." I wish I could have been fishing with him. And answerig your questions,i sure kill my fish.Last summer i killed two trouts (both about 16 inches) and some arctic graylings (about same size). And no sign of guilty.         no matter how you’re fishing,tight lines.                 -Pekka-

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little.

Tim’s postings were often very poorly thought out.  He had a habit of ignoring points that showed where he had contradicted himself while while trumpeting irrelevant non sequiturs.  He had some good points, but you had to wade through a lot of chaff to get to the good stuff. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin.

Tim accused fisherfolk in general, and C&Rers in particular, of being cruel and disrespectful of fish.  This is a serious charge, and it is difficult to make it without being impolite.  Tim was not always up to the challenge. I sometimes found Tim tiresome because he often seemed to be more interested in heat than in light.  It is not enough to start an argument. If a discussion is to be satisfying, then there should be a considered, reasoned exchange.  Tim frequently sidestepped perceptive replies, apparently preferring to inflame when he should have ceded a point and thanked the other poster for their insight. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

Tim is not a bad person, and he certainly did make a contribution, but sometimes he was also a pest.   — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Be thankful that he is gone. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1  

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I have tied 6 Elk Hair Caddis size 14 from one Hoffman saddle hackle. In fact, that is about average for the longer hackles. Of course, I usually palmer the hackle rather heavily.

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Rick Fletcher in a recent post said Newsgroups were created to promote honest discussion and argument; keep in mind networks were created mainly by academics and scientists and arguing is how we spend a good amount of our time.  If you don’t want to argue, fine, don’t join in.  But don’t complain because it happens.   Learn to use a kill file or a capable newsreader.  

One of the things that one likes to see is reasoned, open minded discussion.  Tim often did not provide this.  He often sidestepped relevant points.  Instead, he would counter by starting a new, unrelated, and irrelevant line of argument.  A string of non sequiturs is not an enlightening discussion.  Unfortunately, Tim did not flag his dopey posts, so we had to wade through a lot of nonsense to get to the interesting bits. In other words, I objected to many of Tim’s posts for the same reason that other people are incensed by ads; they waste my time by filling up bandwidth with undodgeable drivel.  Some of Tim’s stuff was good, but so much of it was nonsense.  It does not matter that Tim was here in the good old days when there were few people who had to suffer through his bad posts.  The fact is, regardless of Tim’s history or credentials, he posted a lot of time wasting nonsense.  That is pesty, no matter who does it. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Tim Walker sends me email – and he fishes for trout sometimes.  That makes him OK with me. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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What is HUAC, BTW? — Jim Powlesland                  | OFFICE:  403-220-7937 University Computing Services   | MESSAGE: 403-220-6201 University of Calgary           | FAX:     403-282-9199 Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 | URL: http://www.ucalgary.

ca/~powlesla/ HUAC=House Unamerican Activities Committee, a lovely little group set up during the McCarth era (not Gene) to investigate commie pinko radical and maybe even in the current time frame environmental types.  As a Canadian, you weren’t blessed with such a fine use of governmental resources.  The fact that Pavlov could even reference it (HUAC) means that he is either an historian or an old fart like me. Mike in PDX      "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                                Tom McGuane

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OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring? — Rick

Don’t expect the sandbars to be where you left them last season! :^) Charley

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net

by the ge neral public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their addr ess. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker

–     It is obvious that the two of you (maybe others) do not know Mr. Fletcher or Mr.Walker.  I’m sure you don’t. I do. No, not personally. I have been reading there posts for years now.  In fact, I have even written directly to  them for info and advice.     You have missed Mr. Fletcher’s point.  Actually, there is really no possible way for you to get it. You see, Mr. Fletcher has been on this board for years.  In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen him on alt. fishing .fly when that was being read.  To help make his point, let me inform you of this.  As little as two years ago there were very few people on the net.  In fact, there was a list of the users of rec. flyfishing.  It was only a couple pages long.  It hasn’t been too difficult to notice the changes that have taken place on this board. Was it better two years ago? Probably yes. No, there weren’t as many people or potential resources on the net but , it was much more personal and in depth.  There weren’t any mundane discussions about wader odor, proper hat color,or the Orvis wonder wagon.  That’s not to say there weren’t heated discussions.  Tim started his share of them then, too.     You see, it’s like comparing the country to cities.  The more people you have in one area, the more assholes there are likely to be.  Well, there are more and more people using the net.  Fortunately,there are alot of great new people on it. Unfortunately, there are alot of new assholes as well. It just so happens that most of these people (both kinds) are coming from aol., prodigy, etc.. And, access to the internet     Here’s to the new communications bill!     Jason         By the way, yes, my adress ends in edu.  However, I am a nymph fisherman.                                               Hardly an elitist venture.

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: Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a : lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual : challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, : that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because : it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. : I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net : by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without   : "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? One doesn’t need to be using an .edu machine in order to access the newsreader on that machine.  Perhaps I prefer the newsreader on my .edu account.  Some providers claim it is impossible, but there is this thing called telnet. How would you prefer I describe the growth in use of Usenet?  Prior to 2 years ago, the number of folks with access was limited…now it is less so.  I don’t mean to offend, but I’m at a loss for another way to mention the change. For example, I teach a class for tuition paying students one semester, then I offer it to the general public during summer.  Does this indicate elitism?  Or the opposite… I did engage in an ugly personal attack against one reader who called a friend a pest.  I think it is a big stretch from that action to elitist. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley

Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker —

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Jim, you didn’t perchance work for HUAC back in the 50’s and 60’s, did you ???

I think Jim picked up his technique (and accuracy) by studying McCarthyism. M

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OBffing: I just purchased another Hoffmann #2 and I’ve yet to tie "12 flys from one feather".  Is this folklore? — Rick

Rick,     Was it a neck or a saddle? :^) Charley

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Rick Fletcher writes: OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring?

I’d love to comment on this, Rick, but since I’m a pesky AOL user I doubt you would see any merit in my insights :^) I’m probably going to be checking out of this newsgroup pretty soon, myself. Too many advertisements; too many elitists. In this sense, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly has become a true mirror of the sport of flyfishing and everything that is ruining it. Besides, it’s too damn nice outside to be sitting in here! Happy trails, Steve

Response:

: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope.

(snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue.

(snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It is the nature of Man to conserve within himself traces of ancient hatreds and battles.                                          - BonFar