Question:

A Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope Santa will make one of your special (fly fishing)wishes true. Take care and tight lines Wim

Response:

Its already started.  My wife asked me what kind of fly fishing stuff I wanted for Christmas.  I had just received a Hunter’s Angling fly tying catalogue and marked it up, flagged the pages, and gave it to her for shopping.  Earlier this week she came in with the catalogue in hand, said "Merry Christmas! Order everything you marked!"  I shot off the order and the box arrived yesterday.  My fly tying bench is overloaded with goodies. Most of this batch was for saltwater flys with a few tools thrown in.  At the January fly fishing show in College Park I get to spend my other Christmas present, a SIGNIFICANT contribution to my fly fishing war chest! let’s see……wading boots, Teton reel for my Connor rod, hackle, gotta buy hackle, don’t need hackle (got nearly 3 dozen necks and saddles, but what the hey, you can’t have too many) so I’ll buy some hooks, maybe a full-dressed salmon fly or two to hang on the wall, Teeny line for my new Teton reel…..gotta be something else, so far I have cash left over from my shopping list. Maybe I’d better save some for Penns.  I’m booked with Jonas at Feathered Hook for the nights of May 16 – 20.  Imagine having to pass through a fly shop EVERY day BEFORE BREAKFAST!  arrrrggghhhh!  Better leave all my credit cards at home and just take the leftover Christmas funds. Come to thnk of it, it will be AFTER the fly fishing show, list or no list, there won’t be anything left! — Wayne (commercial….too damn commercial…unless its fly fishing stuff) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope Santa will make one of your special (fly fishing)wishes true. Take care and tight lines Wim

Response:

Its already started.  My wife asked me what kind of fly fishing stuff I wanted for Christmas.  I had just received a Hunter’s Angling fly tying catalogue and marked it up, flagged the pages, and gave it to her for shopping.

I tried the same thing with Cabelas’ fly fishing catalog. When I got done, just about all the pages were dog-eared. After the laughter subsided I was told to make a list, so I went to cabelas.com and made a 3-page wish list. This sport is tough – so much gear, so little $$. — TL, Tim

Response:

Its already started.  My wife asked me what kind of fly fishing stuff I wanted for Christmas.  I had just received a Hunter’s Angling fly tying catalogue and marked it up, flagged the pages, and gave it to her for shopping. I tried the same thing with Cabelas’ fly fishing catalog. When I got done, just about all the pages were dog-eared. After the laughter subsided I was told to make a list, so I went to cabelas.com and made a 3-page wish list. This sport is tough – so much gear, so little $$.

My bosses gave me a $200 gift certificate which I can choose to get in any denominations of $10 and up at any of many listed stores.  I was delighted and told my husband about it, saying that Cabella’s was one of the stores.  He got that look and I now figure I’ll have to half of it at the nearest really good restaurant and only do half at Cabella’s.  Damn.  Should have kept my mouth shut? —   rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Very slow on replying to email. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Cyli, you must learn something which guys pass on to each other early on in the locker room conversations.  NEVER…repeat NEVER give up how much you really got, the fact you got anything at all, where you might spend it, or what you bought with it! NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!  You will also get VERY creative about explaining how certain new gear turns up.  Keep in mind, these are not lies; just things we tell the opposite sex to keep them from worrying about things which they should never have to be concerned with in the first place. — Wayne (maybe I’ll make a video about this and market it through Neiman Markus) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its already started.  My wife asked me what kind of fly fishing stuff I wanted for Christmas.  I had just received a Hunter’s Angling fly tying catalogue and marked it up, flagged the pages, and gave it to her for shopping. I tried the same thing with Cabelas’ fly fishing catalog. When I got done, just about all the pages were dog-eared. After the laughter subsided I was told to make a list, so I went to cabelas.com and made a 3-page wish list. This sport is tough – so much gear, so little $$. My bosses gave me a $200 gift certificate which I can choose to get in any denominations of $10 and up at any of many listed stores.  I was delighted and told my husband about it, saying that Cabella’s was one of the stores.  He got that look and I now figure I’ll have to half of it at the nearest really good restaurant and only do half at Cabella’s.  Damn.  Should have kept my mouth shut? — rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Very slow on replying to email. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

You guys in Baja Oklahoma should know the difference between Sooners and Okies.   I can steer you to a few bars in Sooner land where calling people Okies won’t make you any friends. The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".   Is "Pride in Ignorance" still the state moto of Texas. Can blame you for living in Oklahoma though. General Sherman was a smart feller, his only mistake was not burning enough of Georgia.

Response:

BJC wrote… The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".

Hey now, you are one going by "BJC" <bseg — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

Um, I’m not sure of your point, other than perhaps agreeing in pain… TC, R but note – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Can’t stand any Florida teams either. It’s like I told my Husker fan sister last night, those Miami guys are just too fast and better compensated.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

If your going to steal a quote at least cite the source and get it right. It was Will Rogers and he said the  Okies raised the IQ of both California and Oklahoma

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

WOW Collier, taking time off from your self-penetration to home in on any mention of eBay? Oh, and have an OK day.  Should be a good year for you with the IRS considering your 2001 losses.  Then again, they may just be on their way with an endoscope considering your unreported and ill-gotten ebay income! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

Er, except that most of the pics of "Texas" are of Oklahoma…well, I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… — Charlie…

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"…

I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

"Charlie Choc" wrote  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

Like I said, Ken was exaggerating, as he is prone to do. The Bible is *not* autographed, but it is the original, handwritten version. Price is negotiable, depending on how many you order at one time… Any remaining stock will be auctioned on eBay. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price

Response:

Friendly and predictable, that’s me… — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, it would be acceptable, but only after it is cleared by the protocol committee.  If you’ll send me the details on the book, I’ll be happy to forward it on to them…. Seriously, though, generally speaking, the only place a "For Sale" post is _strictly_ appropriate is in a ".forsale" newsgroup or other such newsgroup that specifically allows "for sale" postings.  But ROFF’s charter is, at best, more observed by the ignoring of same. What this means is: "who knows what reaction a particular post might garner?"  If your post is simple, honest posting pointing to a personal sale of a book or books, I’d say post away and ignore any flames.   One thing on pointing to auctions, whether here or another newsgroup, starting the subject line with a "FA:" is considered proper as "FS:" means that it is "for sale," not "for auction."  Also, indicate your location. OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… HTH, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron Reinhold

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, regulars often post when they’re selling something on eBay, but if you do it out of the blue, as an unknown, you’re likely to get flamed by self-appointed net cops. Thanks for asking. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

"Ron Reinhold"  wrote…  I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay?

Don’t listen to those other guys, they’re only trying to get you into trouble.  The proper protocol is to send the rare flyfishing book to me, for approval. Just happy I could help, Timothy Juvenal

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold

I’d say it’s OK as long as it’s a one time deal.  We do not appreciate continual spamming.  So, if you’re a book dealer or something, you would be better off becoming a regular contributor and put your web site on your signature.  It would be nice if you put a "FS:" at the beginning of your subject line to mark it as a for sale notice.

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Question:

I wanna be the "second person." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  - $49/ night first person + $9/night for second person

Response:

Do come. I need to meet the bozo who’s ruining my good name…  <G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bellows Get to Bainbridge and Ill drive the rest of the way. My Caravan can carry lots of gear and people. Dave i’ll check my schedule to see if i can make it, although you really couldn’t have picked someplace further from my house in washington state <G.  let us know what dates you decide on and then i can make a decision. cb

Response:

Do come. I need to meet the bozo who’s ruining my good name…  <G

hey… i’ll be there for the 16th and 17th. chris

Response:

Bob 11/16-21 time frame looks good to me as do your ideas for rolling tour/fishing.  Dean Brown and Keith Stonebraker sound like great additions, . . . hell we probably could make this a "for credit" offering at ROFF University. For anyone considering this miniclave . . . The cast of characters is shaping up as classic.  The Willowa/Blue Mountain areas are very special. The Grande Ronde offers a realistic shot at a steelhead. This was birthplace of the Apaloosa and the citadel of the best calvery the world has ever known, Chief Joseph’s Nez Pierce homeland. This is an incredibly beautiful part of the old West. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far, Dave Snedeker, JR, and Scott Bellows have at least tentavely committed. George Brown(Dean Emeritus of OSU College of Forestry), who I owe a steelhead trip, has said he is available to participate Nov. 2&3 and during the period Nov.14-21.  I would like to take the opportunity to have him as an added forestry education resource, so would like to plan the shindig around his availability.  I personally prefer sometime in the 11/16-21 time frame.  Keith Stonebraker, who was called by Trey Combs( in one of his classic books on steelhead flyfishing & flies) the pioneer of floating line steelheading on the Clearwater & Snake Rivers, has said he would like to join the festivities.  Keith is also a past commissioner of the Idaho Dept of Fish & Game, and one of the finest flycasters it has been my priviledge to observe.

Response:

I know that I said that the dates would be set based on what the majority of those who had committed before10/23 desired, but I can see that waiting that long won’t work, as I have been underwhelmed by independant input.  People need something relatively firm to shoot for.  Thus I am proposing the following: 11/16 – meet just prior to noon in La Grande, introductions & grab a quick bite, start forestry tour heading towards Enterprise.  Dinner & overnight in Enterprise. 11/17 – resume tour after breakfast arrive in Troy early afternoon,  eat & check in then commence fishing. 11/18, 19 or till whenever people want to go home – catching summer steelhead. I will stick with that unless that won’t work for the majority of those who want to attend. Please get me your committment and accomodation needs ASAP so I can start setting it up & be sure of getting accomodations.  Email me at flies, etc. for Grande Ronde summer runs, or if you need my phone# and/or snail mail address for making arrangements  . Bob Weinberger

Response:

This mini clave/forestry tour is shaping up as a winner. The rivers in the area are first rate and look to be in reasonable condition. My offer for a lift from the Seattle area to the Clave is still open. I know there are some lurkers and regs out there who haven’t spoken up yet. If you are a newby you should know that ROFF claves are open to all, and there is no better way to meet other ROFFers. You will find a group of gentleman and see that the political bull goes out the window during claves. If you are new to the Northwest, I can assure you that this clave will intro you to country it took me a decade to connect with.  If you are from out of the PNB, why not consider using up some of those frequent flyer miles and flying into Seattle or Portland for an end of fall Steelhead fandango on the Grand Ronde. Dave

Response:

The Forestry tour/steelhead miniclave is firm for 11/16-19 (or longer for those who wish to stay longer). Those who have indicated that they will attend are: Dave Snedeker J T Russell (JR) Scott Bellows C Bellows (Bellows) George Brown Keith Stonebraker Myself with Chris Fanning (Padishar Creel) a possible. I’m leaving for Elk hunting tomorrow and will be returning NLT the afternoon of 10/29. Upon return I intend to reserve our accomodations.  Please confirm your attendance and get me your needs for accomodations by the time I return ( single or share a room in Enterprise 11/16. single, share a 2 person room, or share a multi person cabin in Troy 11/17-?). So far only JR has sent me the info. I will be sending directions to meeting place etc. to all confirmed attendees when I get back fm elk hunting. Ken Janik, I know that you were interested in a forestry tour & steelhead fishing, but I haven’t heard from you. There’s a great run this year & water conditions remain perfect. Bob Weinberger

Response:

I’m leaving for Elk hunting tomorrow and will be returning NLT the afternoon of 10/29. Upon return I intend to reserve our accomodations.  Please confirm your attendance and get me your needs for accomodations by the time I return ( single or share a room in Enterprise 11/16. single, share a 2 person room, or share a multi person cabin in Troy 11/17-?). So far only JR has sent me the info. I will be sending directions to meeting place etc. to all confirmed attendees when I get back fm elk hunting. Ken Janik, I know that you were interested in a forestry tour & steelhead fishing, but I haven’t heard from you.

Yes, I’m interested, but I most likely won’t know if I can make it until the week of.  Don’t worry about accomodations for me, if I can make it I’ll take care of myself. Thanks,       – Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

Hello Bob Yes Im coming. Accomodations 11/16, if someone else would like to share a room Id go with that. Otherwise, a single. ie Im flexible. 11/17-18, like to share the multi person cabin. Thanx Dave

Response:

I have received several requests to conduct a forestry tour (1-2days) and, since I am an avid flyfisherman and this is a flyfishing group, I propose that it be appended to a mini clave.  Dave Snedeker has volunteered to help set it up and proposes that it be aligned with steelheading on the lower Grande Ronde River.  At this point it would have to be in the month of Nov. – any dates except 3-4 days either side of Nov. 11 – son’s wedding. See my post to Dave dated today & titled "re: report on logging national forests" for additional information. I need your preferred dates, locations, accomodation needs and anything you particularly want to see ASAP if you want to participate in such an questions and if you need my phone# and snail mail address for making arrangements. Bob Weinberger

Response:

So far, Dave Snedeker, JR, and Scott Bellows have at least tentavely committed. George Brown(Dean Emeritus of OSU College of Forestry), who I owe a steelhead trip, has said he is available to participate Nov. 2&3 and during the period Nov.14-21.  I would like to take the opportunity to have him as an added forestry education resource, so would like to plan the shindig around his availability.  I personally prefer sometime in the 11/16-21 time frame.  Keith Stonebraker, who was called by Trey Combs( in one of his classic books on steelhead flyfishing & flies) the pioneer of floating line steelheading on the Clearwater & Snake Rivers, has said he would like to join the festivities.  Keith is also a past commissioner of the Idaho Dept of Fish & Game, and one of the finest flycasters it has been my priviledge to observe. I did some checking with the only restaurant & accomodations at Troy, Shilo Inn ( previously owned by the owner of the motel chain of the same name, but bearing no resemblance to any of his motels) – they have 3 rooms (sharing a common bathroom) w/ 2 beds each  above the restaurant – $49/ night first person + $9/night for second person. They also have 3 cabins that hold 4-6 people – example: cabin that holds 5-6, $85/night first person + $9/night for each additional person. There is also a small campground w/ hookups in Troy and several small unimproved (outhouses only) free campgrounds within a mile or two.  The restaurant has a limited bar selection, so I suggest you bring your own favorite libations. ( I, as mini-clavemeister reserve the right to sample all libations brought to determine their appropriateness for such a meeting.) I am leaning toward starting the first day mid-morning from La Grande. Doing a forestry tour while driving towards Wallowa or Enterprise. Overnight in either Wallowa or Enterprise. Continue forestry tour while driving towards Troy.  Arrive in Troy mid-afternoon, check-in, & start fishing. Fish next day or two as desired. That’s just my first cut – anyone with other ideas please speak out. (Note: those needing licenses or steelhead tags – 1 or 3 day license & steelhead tags avail.- will need to get them before heading to Troy.  Those from WA would not need to get an OR out of state license if they don’t want to- the WA border is only 6 mi. below Troy and that also has good water.) The nearest airport to La Grande is Pendleton – an hour away from La Grande, 3.5 hrs from Troy. With enough notice I could get people to & from the airport if needed.  Anyone just interested in the fishing portion could fly into Lewiston/Clarkston & rent a car for the 1-1.5 hr drive to Troy. Please let me know your preferred dates and accomodation needs ASAP so I can start setting it up & be sure of getting accomodations.   I will set it up for the dates the majority, of those committing prior to 10/23, chooses. With the fishing as good as its been and elk hunts going on in adjacent hunt units during the proposed time frame, we’ll need to move quickly to be assured of rooms or cabins. Since this is a short notice mini-clave I am not planning for a raffle, hats or tee shirts,etc. if you need my phone# and/or snail mail address for making arrangements. Bob Weinberger

Response:

So far, Dave Snedeker, JR, and Scott Bellows have at least tentavely committed. George Brown(Dean Emeritus of OSU College of Forestry), who I owe a steelhead trip, has said he is available to participate Nov. 2&3 and during the period Nov.14-21.  I would like to take the opportunity to have him as an added forestry education resource, so would like to plan the shindig around his availability.  I personally prefer sometime in the 11/16-21 time frame.  Keith Stonebraker, who was called by Trey Combs( in one of his classic books on steelhead flyfishing & flies) the pioneer of floating line steelheading on the Clearwater & Snake Rivers, has said he would like to join the festivities.  Keith is also a past commissioner of the Idaho Dept of Fish & Game, and one of the finest flycasters it has been my priviledge to observe.

i’ll check my schedule to see if i can make it, although you really couldn’t have picked someplace further from my house in washington state <G.  let us know what dates you decide on and then i can make a decision. cb

Response:

Bellows Get to Bainbridge and Ill drive the rest of the way. My Caravan can carry lots of gear and people. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ll check my schedule to see if i can make it, although you really couldn’t have picked someplace further from my house in washington state <G.  let us know what dates you decide on and then i can make a decision. cb

Response:

Question:

http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Harry Mason does it again: http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator

Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse

Response:

<<Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse  Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some! "Reality is an escape for people who don’t (fly) fish"

Response:

Skylnprntg writes: <<Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some! "Reality is an escape for people who don’t (fly) fish"

Oh, yes.  They are very effective in the Smokies, Maine, and a favorite of the brook trout in Labrador.  With Harry’s help I should be able to tie my own. Dave LaCourse

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New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants …….

No rants from here, Harry. Super job! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Harry Take a look at the Michigan Stelhead report.  We were catching those little stockers on small, black bodied stimulators.  Worked well. BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Just what I’ve been looking for!  I’ve been getting material to tie some of these up.  I read Kaufman’s instructions on this, but neither he nor anyone else has mentioned this info about the hackle size (unless I missed it.)  But it looked to me like everyone ties them "short" (smaller hackle for the palmer). Now the other half of the million dollar question – Do you also use a smaller hackle for the collar (say 1 size), since the thorax area is built up with dubbing so much?  Thanks For the body palmer ,bind in a prepared saddle hackle two sizes under the normal dry hackle size,i.e. for a size 10 use a size14 hackle. Keep in mind

the TMC R200 is an under gap sized hook. The York bend produces a short gap size relative to standard bend hooks. Regards, Jeff

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Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some!

I have to tie some up, because they were eating them up on the river I went to in New York last June.  I only could get one from the local shop, because he was so busy with orders.  I caught a bunch of fish on it, but they wouldn’t go for the smaller size I had with me, and other flies only about a third as much.  Finally, something big snapped my tippet.  I’m going back prepared this year! Regards, Jeff

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the fly is  very versitile,surprisingly so. I have used them down to 20’s and as large as 4’s .They flat catch fish,yet the tye is but a knock off of a sofa pillow. Just goes to show how a little tweaking can make the difference.  You are right I should have cleaned the nails instead of getting a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com Harry Take a look at the Michigan Stelhead report.  We were catching those little stockers on small, black bodied stimulators.  Worked well. BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

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I am of the belief that the bug does not float worth a shit. IMO the hackle is for show.The wing/tail hair floats this thing amid ship on the water. This is not a bad thing but it does not "sit" atop like an dry hackled Adams.  By default if you use a scale to measure ther hackle the feather will be about twice the gap of a R200. If you use the gap  to measure, the feather will be undersized , relative to the hook size.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just what I’ve been looking for!  I’ve been getting material to tie some of these up.  I read Kaufman’s instructions on this, but neither he nor anyone else has mentioned this info about the hackle size (unless I missed it.)  But it looked to me like everyone ties them "short" (smaller hackle for the palmer). Now the other half of the million dollar question – Do you also use a smaller hackle for the collar (say 1 size), since the thorax area is built up with dubbing so much?  Thanks For the body palmer ,bind in a prepared saddle hackle two sizes under the normal dry hackle size,i.e. for a size 10 use a size14 hackle. Keep in mind the TMC R200 is an under gap sized hook. The York bend produces a short gap size relative to standard bend hooks. Regards, Jeff

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

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BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :)

Yeah why don’t you think about that?  I see Al and Gretchen Beatty have a book out (at least one) that appears to have been put together on a shoestring. This is not a criticism, just pointing out you don’t have to nail a big publisher.  Their "Tying With Hair" or something appears to have been printed on a good quality printer and bound like you could probably do at Kinko’s and it turned out pretty good.  They don’t even have a Stimulator pattern in theirs Regards, Jeff

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Question:

… I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical.

They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to Later,      - Ken

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical. They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to

With all due respect, I think you guys are going overboard here. Just send a POLITE email to flyfishamerica explaining the error of their ways. If they don’t stop then you can go thermonuclear. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical. They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to With all due respect, I think you guys are going overboard here. Just send a POLITE email to flyfishamerica explaining the error of their ways. If they don’t stop then you can go thermonuclear.

With all due respect, nobody’s going thermonuclear.  They are being handled the same way every other spammer gets handled.  I get unsolicited email, they and their administrator gets an email complaint.  I am forced to maintain separate accounts because pieces of @#%^ spammers pull things like this.  If they can send me crap, I can certainly send them an email back.  I do not send spammers email directly as this usually just confirms to them that they have a valid address and gets you more email.  The same does for those BS, reply to be unsubscribed messages.  They are usually just trolling to get responses so that they can send you more spam. For anyone who is interested, there is a free service that does email forwarding for you so that you can complain without your address being collected.  Go to www.abuse.net and read the FAQ for details. They even have some scripts to automate the process of finding the real address and composing the complaint.  I’ve been using them for over a year now and am up to 750 complaints.  There’s no reason to put up with spam and quite frankly opt-out is BS (somebody has a sig with that in it). And that concludes the monday morning rant session.  :-)      - Ken

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Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? — Ken Fortenberry

yeah, i got one. i also got one about 2 months ago. it’s too bad they are resorting to that, they don’t need to. where do you think they got their mailing list? walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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I posted to ROFF in an attempt to ascertain if they obtained my email address from ROFF. I still don’t know how I "landed on" their list but I’d be curious to know. — Ken Fortenberry

I’ve been getting spam from some flyfishing place lately, but I just deleted it.  Don’t know if it’s from flyfish america or not.  I wouldn’t be suprised if ROFF gets scanned once  in a while. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

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Maybe it was only for "bud" drinkers.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? — Ken Fortenberry

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Just checked my trash can…fly fish america it is. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

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THAT’S the $64,000 question. I hope it’s not ROFF but what does a Unix weenie from Illinois, a cop from Colorado and a super model from North Carolina, (nice shot of you on pg 104 of Orvis, Walt) have in common besides ROFF ?

We all drink beer? That’s the ticket. Maybe our brains were scanned by ECHELON at the check-out counter at the Cork and Barrel? Or what do you get when you cross a sysadmin from Illinois, a cop formerly from Illinois, and a supermodel from North Carolina? (Next Clave, I’ll buy a six pack for whoever comes up with the best punchline to that one. It has to be available in Denver, though.) Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

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THAT’S the $64,000 question. I hope it’s not ROFF but what does a Unix weenie from Illinois, a cop from Colorado and a super model from North Carolina, (nice shot of you on pg 104 of Orvis, Walt) have in common besides ROFF ?

it’s pretty obvious where they got the list. i canned mine when it arrived, like i do with the other 30 or so spams i get every day. i initially thought it was b/c of my com address, but now i’m certain that they have scanned roff for addresses. shame really, they have a good and informative free magazine that they make available to ff’ers. walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Well, this infrequent poster didn’t get that message.  So, either the spamblocker in my reply-to address works, or my ISP is doing a good job of blocking spam.  I suspect maybe a little of both.  They must be using good address cleaning to remove the blocker in Mr. Erana’s address…  Or maybe they’re getting their list  from somewhere else? –Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? Yup. — Michael Era

Question:

Hello, I’m going to Toronto next summer, and I would like to know where I can fish trout with my fly rod     Thanks, Mark

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Hello, I’m going to Toronto next summer, and I would like to know where I can fish trout with my fly rod    Thanks, Mark

Can I recommend some provincial politictians that will gobble a fly if it resembles a dollar bill?  Try the front lawn of Queens Park. Seriously, to the east, Duffins Creek and the Ganaraska, to the north west, the Credit River and the Forks of the Credit. to the west, the Grand River and its tribs.  To the way north, brookie streams north of Sudbury, to the way west, ‘bows and steelhead on the Maitland and the Saugeen and their tribs.  Call John Valk at Grindstone Angling (905) 689-0880 if you need more info or a guide. Peter

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m going to Toronto next summer, and I would like to know where I can fish trout with my fly rod    Thanks, Mark Can I recommend some provincial politictians that will gobble a fly if it resembles a dollar bill?  Try the front lawn of Queens Park. Seriously, to the east, Duffins Creek and the Ganaraska, to the north west, the Credit River and the Forks of the Credit. to the west, the Grand River and its tribs.  To the way north, brookie streams north of Sudbury, to the way west, ‘bows and steelhead on the Maitland and the Saugeen and their tribs.  Call John Valk at Grindstone Angling (905) 689-0880 if you need more info or a guide. Peter

  I lived on the bank of the Ganaraska for 25 years.  If you come in the spring it’s packed with steelheaders.  But if your in to natives then it’s really good from mid may to mid june in the upper reaches of the Ganny.  The part of the river in Port Hope is good for steelhead but not so good for native trout because of the reconstruction after the flood.  Anything north of Highway 16 is good for natives. I find this the best time for brown.  BTW the Ganaraska is located in Port Hope.  One hour east of Toronto on the 401.  If you ask some of the land owners in Welcome (village name) or Canton  nicely they will let you fish on their land.  I have family that owns land on the Ganny.   If you like Fly Fishing and would like to go about thirty minutes further east then I’d recommend Cold Creek north of Brighton.  I’m just learning flyfishing and have just started exploring this stream so I can’t really give you much advice about it. Tight Lines Scott

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Question:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

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Sorry to be glib on what is supposed to be a serious request, BUT, I just realized that I must have been wearing womens waders all along.  Why else would the zipper be missing from where I need it the most? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order. jackie billings, mt

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

LL Bean also offers woman’s waders and custom made waders too.  They are on the web as well. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order.

Someone also once posted the address of a California company called Damselfly which specializes in women’s flyfishing needs. Their number is 1-800-966-4166. I haven’t dealt with them personally, being a double victim of both chronic poverty and the Canadian exchange rate, but I’m willing to bet they’re worth checking out before going to Orvis… — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Bare, Simms and Orvis have womans neoprene wader. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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 I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been  unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order  dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

If your wife is what is considered average in size, Damsel Fly should have waders to fit her.  Otherwise, any of the companies that custom make waders is your best bet.  Mine came from StreamLine in Bainbridge, Washington but most good flyshops can order for you and will have the necessary form to get all the measurements right.  I’m not sure if all the manufacturers are making a women’s cut in waders yet but StreamLine does.                         – Jewelee

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Hi, My wife wears Simms Womens neoprene waders and loves them.  She has gotten quite a bit of use out of them.  They are a bit expensive (I don’t know how much wading your wife will be doing), and the pair she has is purple (which just happens to be her favorite color). Actually, the waders appear dark blue in the water. Otherwise, the ORvis womens waders have received good reviews also from a few women I have guided. -paul Paul Williamson Emigrant, MT 59027

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Question:

— Greg Smith    Visit New York State’s majestic Adirondack Mountains at    http://www.dreamscape.com/esmith/ "I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air,    and the scenes in which pure air is found" –John Muir

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<—– Whole Lotta BUNK Deleted —–

Ayyy Yo Mustiiiie! Wassamatta, youze mom didn’t give youze enough love or somethin??? Or maybe she gave you toooooo much love, dats the problem I think. Youze wanna talk about "Ultimate Challenges"? How about youze givin the nice folks on all of these newsgroups youze been pollutin a lil break? How about you don’t post anything anywhere for a whole month? How about that for an "Ultimate Challenge", huh Mustie? I mean Mistie, I mean, uh, what was your name again? Anyway, I bet youze can’t do it cause youze is not man enough. I bet youze got a "Nad Boy" sticker, fuzzy dice, and flames on your metallic pink Honda, don’t ya? Well, I’m sure I’ll be hearin from ya, cause I know for a fact that you WILL fail the "Ultimate Challenge"… Sly P.S. Youze don’t like my movies, don’t watch’em. I just try to make a      livin like everybody else…

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I can’t believe you people keep falling for this stuff.  You need to just ignore the post altogether. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh say can you see, by the prides early light, that you are a fool, for buying the Ford.  And the engine breaks down,  you feel like a clown, Thats right you un-intelligent flag wavers!  Why is it that you all seem so hung up on BUY AMERICAN!   Why is it that innocent women get harrased by union truck drivers for driving a foriegn vehicle?  Would you like your wife,  daughter or mom to be insulted by some greasy moron who says  

Question:

Mass. non-resident (7-day) is $16.50 Very close to Chelmsford pan-fish and some bass can be found on the Sudbury and Concord rivers. There is also some ocean blue-fishing done with salt fly rods but I know little about this. Regarding trout, nearest to Chelmsford is the Nissitissit River, fly-fishing only C&R. A bit further afield are the Cape ponds.  About an hour away is the fly-fishing only C&R on the Swift River and further still is the C&R section of the Deerfield.  The Swift and Deerfield drain the Quabbin and Fife Brook Dam repectively so the water temperatures will stay optimal throughout the summer – which is why they are the two best bets at this time of year. Stocking takes place near to (and in) Chelmsford but its all put-and-take, the fish can’t survive this long. I am not especially familiar with New Hampshire, but for the cost of a non-resident license I think you’d have better chances there. Chelmsford is just a few minutes from the border.

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When I worked in Chelmsford I used to fish Walden Pond a lot. Lots of brown trout, many of them big (biggest I’ve seen was a 12 lb. a guy got on bait) and big rainbows (to 7 lbs.) too, but this was many years ago (‘84). At the time I did best with Henryvilles, midges and muddlers fished deep and slow at night. Nine three streamers were good for rainbows too.                                                         jc

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Question:

I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

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writes: I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

I’ve never fished it, but "California Fly Fisher" magazine had a short article in their July-Aug ‘93 issue on the Merced.  Call them at (415)621-3117, maybe they can send you a back issue.  They said the better fishing for wild trout is outside the park.  Good luck, Bill Uyeki

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