Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

I have a carbureted 2 stroke – no computer or electronics to crap out anytime.  7 years old and still going with only spark plug and lower gearcase lube changes.

Response:

Suzuki just came out with a 140 HP Four Stroke that weighs less than a 150 Two Stroke and has equal performance.  I think it was said earlier that you shouldn’t pull info out of your ass.  If you don’t know the facts, shut the F^ck up.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass)

Where do these weight figures come from – a brochure or website?  Ha !!  I trust those about as much as I trust Bill Clinton !!! I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor.

Interesting that on the same web page, the 4 stroke Yamaha 30 weighs 198 lb. My guess, the 4 stroke 40 is listed for 181 lb with short shaft, manual start, manual tilt. The 4 stroke 30 comes only with long shaft, electric start, power trim&tilt, same as the 2 stroke 40 hp. Mod.

Response:

I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry.

Yup that 3 quarts of oil and 24 oz of 90w will really pack on the pounds. Me and the truck driver picked up my 60EFI Big Foot and it was still in the crate.

Response:

What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go. For most weekend boaters, the 2 stroke outboard is the more long term economic choice even if gas costs $2.50 per gallon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

Response:

One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info.

My guess is this: the purveyors of such possibilities don’t yet see the market willing to pay the excessive premium they charge for their higher horsepower four stroke engines. Relative to what they’d like to charge for a four stroke 175, the two strokes of that power are inexpensive. The guys who are buying the 200-225 four strokers don’t seem to mind giving away the excessive bucks. — Harry Krause – - A red is any son-of-a-bitch who wants thirty cents when we’re paying twenty five. – John Steinbeck

Response:

Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.  

Del, on the other hand, the guy with that setup doesn’t think twice about putting 200 lbs. of batteries right up against the transom, nor does he hesitate to hit the fill switch on his livewell, adding another 200 lbs. of water to the rear third of the boat.  Moving one battery forward will largely offset the penalty of a heavier motor. — Rich Stern www.nitroowners.com – The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site www.mypontoon.com – The Pontoon Boat Web Site

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

So, what is your explanation of why there are no 150-175 HP 4strokes? del cecchi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

I imagine bass boat guys will show up at the 4 stroke dealer when their bans 2 strokes on the lakes. I hope the manufacturers are ready for them.

Response:

| says… | | One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to | replace my aging Yamahas??? | | pontificated: | | # Hello Enn, | # | # Thanks for the info. | | | | — | 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. | To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. | | ______ | Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = | http://www.binaries.net | | Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 | stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? | | del cecchi | | | | I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as | soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad | top off the gas tank!! | | I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing | everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water | bottles, that theory went out the window!! A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.   — Del Cecchi   Personal Opinions Only

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address.

______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =

http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. ______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad top off the gas tank!! I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water bottles, that theory went out the window!!

Response:

Hello Enn, Thanks for the info. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same in all European countries. Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Same in all European countries. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Question:

First of all, my apologies to those who did not get in this year, I wish we could sign up everybody that wants to swap. Now, I tried sending out this list via private email but 2 keep bouncing back, John Russell, I need your correct email address, and an unnamed from aol keeps bouncing.  Aol, in their own inimitable stye won’t say who it is. (!)  Anyway, here it is for better or worse. COPY BEGINS HERE…… Well folks, this will be the final tally on tyers unless someone else decides to drop out. Because of a screw-up on my part, we have wound up with 41 instead of "just" 40.  I trust this will not cause a problem for anyone. PLEASE, when you communicate with me, do it in private e-mail and just use FLY SWAP  in the subject line.  Depending on roff/rofft for communication has caused some problems for me in getting the info in a timely manner.  OK, I’m hitting the road in a few minutes and won’t be available to return messages until sometime this coming Saturday.  Have fun tying and for those who have yet to name your fly, no big deal, but it would be nice if you could remember to send me the name of your pattern when you decide what to tie. 2.   Randy Kane…….TBA 3.   Hans van der Stroom…….TBA 4.   Walter Huff……Deer Hair Bug 5.   Dave Martel…..(LaFontaine Emergent Sparkle Caddis) 7.   John Russell…….(Gold Butt Bear) 9.   Peter Collin……Mark’s Carpet Fly 10.  Lou Teletski…..Epoxyhead Baitfish 11.  Tim Lysyk……. Olive Mountain Midge 14.  Brian Nelson…….TBA 15.  Paul Goodwin……TBA 16.  Sam Stump…….Zug Bug 18.  John Whitely…….TBD 19.  John Brandt…..Royal Coachman Marabou Streamer 20.  Ronald Ausman……TBD 24.  Jamie Heim…….Canadian Killer 28.  Eugene Knapik…… Usual 29.  Jeff Gooldy….Altmar Sunrise 30.  Bob Beardall……TBD 31.  Chris Fanning…….Clouser Tube Fly 34.  Bob Weinberger…….Olive and Starling soft hackle 35.  Michael Hewitt…….Matuka type fly 36.  Charlie Wilson……TBD 38.  Wayne Hart…..TBD 39.  Willi Loehmann….TBD 40.  Warren Findley…..TBD 41.  Herman Nijland….TBD Your Benevolent Old Gray Swapmeister Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, my apologies to those who did not get in this year, I wish we could sign up everybody that wants to swap. Now, I tried sending out this list via private email but 2 keep bouncing back, John Russell, I need your correct email address, and an unnamed from aol keeps bouncing.  Aol, in their own inimitable stye won’t say who it is. (!)  Anyway, here it is for better or worse. COPY BEGINS HERE…… Well folks, this will be the final tally on tyers unless someone else decides to drop out. Because of a screw-up on my part, we have wound up with 41 instead of "just" 40.  I trust this will not cause a problem for anyone. PLEASE, when you communicate with me, do it in private e-mail and just use FLY SWAP  in the subject line.  Depending on roff/rofft for communication has caused some problems for me in getting the info in a timely manner.  OK, I’m hitting the road in a few minutes and won’t be available to return messages until sometime this coming Saturday.  Have fun tying and for those who have yet to name your fly, no big deal, but it would be nice if you could remember to send me the name of your pattern when you decide what to tie. 2.   Randy Kane…….TBA 3.   Hans van der Stroom…….TBA 4.   Walter Huff……Deer Hair Bug 5.   Dave Martel…..(LaFontaine Emergent Sparkle Caddis) 7.   John Russell…….(Gold Butt Bear) 9.   Peter Collin……Mark’s Carpet Fly 10.  Lou Teletski…..Epoxyhead Baitfish 11.  Tim Lysyk……. Olive Mountain Midge 14.  Brian Nelson…….TBA 15.  Paul Goodwin……TBA 16.  Sam Stump…….Zug Bug 18.  John Whitely…….TBD 19.  John Brandt…..Royal Coachman Marabou Streamer 20.  Ronald Ausman……TBD 24.  Jamie Heim…….Canadian Killer 28.  Eugene Knapik…… Usual 29.  Jeff Gooldy….Altmar Sunrise 30.  Bob Beardall……TBD 31.  Chris Fanning…….Clouser Tube Fly 34.  Bob Weinberger…….Olive and Starling soft hackle 35.  Michael Hewitt…….Matuka type fly 36.  Charlie Wilson……TBD 38.  Wayne Hart…..TBD 39.  Willi Loehmann….TBD 40.  Warren Findley…..TBD 41.  Herman Nijland….TBD 42.  George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special Your Benevolent Old Gray Swapmeister Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o

Response:

42.  George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special

george, you can’t help spewing yer vitriolic shit everywhere, can ya? you are one sad example of a homo sapien….. oneday soon, i’m convinced you will be received warmly in hell. –waldo

Response:

Walt?  Not true.  I don’t see how an old fart like you can continue with such nonsense?  Thing is Walt, it doesn’t take much to piss you off about ANYTHING! If you want The Bigot Special, just ask, I’ve always been tolerant of you Walt.   christ.  Lighten up man. George Gehrke To hell and back 42.  George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special george, you can’t help spewing yer vitriolic shit everywhere, can ya?

f*^# you Walt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –waldo

Response:

one of these day’s i’ll learn not to respond to the friggin’ village idiot. –waldo

Response:

<snip f*^# you Walt.

Exactly what I was talking about last week George. Same old cycle.  Show up, post a few relatively informative messages, try to act friendly, then resort to the same old insults and bombast.  Start a flame war, leave in a huff, promise to stay away for a while, then come back a day later for more.  The cycle repeats as it has since 1995. Somebody on the commercial side of flyfishing should think a bit more before making public postings in a flyfishing newsgroup, George.  Thousands of people read these messages.  You lose more potential customers every time you repeat this cycle.  You provide entertainment for your detractors, and hurt your business.  What’s the sense of that? –Stan – post followups to misc.business.marketing.clueless (gonna buy a Bud Lite for Waldo and let it sit on my car until May – freeze, thaw, heat up, repeat)

Response:

(gonna buy a Bud Lite for Waldo and let it sit on my car until May – freeze, thaw, heat up, repeat)

jeez stan, what the hell did i ever do to you to deseve *that*? –waldo, screw-it, ya’ll can find me at the wiekert sportsmans club come may….. yuengling on draft

Response:

jeez stan, what the hell did i ever do to you to deseve *that*? –waldo, screw-it, ya’ll can find me at the wiekert sportsmans club come may….. yuengling on draft

Winters, you are nothing more than a quibbler.  All of you carolina people are quibblers. Quibblers, quibblers, quibbler. So, their! G. Gehrke American Jet Warrior

Response:

Your vocabulary speaks for itself on the higher plains of roff.  Did you take college courses in swearing or did you just attend North Carolina University for a week? George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – one of these day’s i’ll learn not to respond to the friggin’ village idiot. –waldo

Response:

Question:

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too. vince norris

Response:

Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too.

Who do Pennsylvanians hold in higher regard – Joe Humphreys or George Harvey?

Response:

Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. (snip) Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person .

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more.

‘Twas only intended as a riff on a momentary misread of a G.G. post, Rusty. But, hey, if you’re volunteering to get me out more often — especially to a happenin’ bar where the chicks are all ready to discuss George Harvey leader formulas for the price of a shot of Yukon Jack and a beer back  – I’m on the next plane to Laramie, a copy of Leader Calc on a floppy diskette in my shirt pocket and Ernie Harrison’s Blood Knot Machine on a lanyard around my neck. We’ll slay ‘em Rusty…just slay ‘em! get me to a brewery, – sid

Response:

Tom?  I only wish I could remember all the numbers and percentages he laid on me.  He had a lot to say about it.  I told Mr. G.H. I would understand it better seeing it in print. Again, like you said, Sir Harvey is a very interesting man.  I’m interested in this new idea of his also. Mr.G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

– (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Brutes lives!

Response:

GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision.

Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

Response:

Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. Oddly enough, the whole passage reads more believably as the Ginkster’s perpetual internal dialogue momentarily externalized for the rest of us to wonder at. When read this way, the entire post takes on the slightly narcotic quality of a daily affirmation, repeated daily in the mirror, the better to weather the slings and arrows of outrageous roffians. Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person . – sid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George

Response:

According to George Harvey, he has developed a wonderful new formula and concept for finicky trout where one would need as much slack as possible to get a long drift without drag.  George said he wrote an article on it that will be coming out soon in Flyfisherman’s Magazine.  There is a new formula he uses along with soft mono and the butt section is made of three tapering pieces and the entire leader is made from soft nylon or mono so the entire leader can be made to respond to an S-cast which now includes the entire leader besides the fly line.   Mr. Harvey called me this morning to discuss other matters, and he also owns a Bastard Bamboo which he will be using opening day next week in PA. Where he fishes, he reported that one of the large fish he has seen in the past died of natural causes.  It was measured at 32.5 inches and weighted over 12 pounds besides being a LARGE Rainbow.  A fish that, for any fly fisherman, would be a trophy of a life time.  "Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George — http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

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Question:

The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the SPR simply to help get Hilary out of his hair by foisting her off on the people of New York, he released the following statement: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman…" When asked about the fact oil prices seeming to be going up, he had the following comments: "It depends on what the meaning of "up" is…" Meanwhile, Hilary, at a fundraiser given by Melissa Etheridge, Ellen Degeneris, and kd lang, released the following: "It’s a vast left-wing conspiracy.  I pledge to speak until the entire Northeast is warm and toasty…" Gore, meanwhile, speaking at an oil industry trade show, quipped, "I grew up with that wonderful lullaby, ‘You can trust you car…’."

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The White House (SPOOF)

I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

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The White House (SPOOF) I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.     – Ken

Ya think? <G R

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The White House (SPOOF)

Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

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The White House (SPOOF) Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

No, it isn’t, hence, it is a seperate posting.  As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  

Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

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The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  I must confess, however, Win’s little brother, Bink, found it a bit cutting, but he’s at that age…still a junior at, sigh, Babson, where they fuel that young liberal angst.

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Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.   Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

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Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

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Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches… Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

Alas, times change, and we are very progressive – we even voted to move the lawn jockey at the Country Club from the front to back by the cart check…

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As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion.

I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny.

Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  

So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life, and I ain’t no damn liberal. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts.

Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC alt. current-events.clinton.whitewater alt.flame.bill-clinton.abortion.partial-birth alt.flame.bill-clinton.humor alt.impeach.clinton alt.sex.clinton.bill alt.sex.clinton.hillary alt.sex.clinton.chelsa alt.fan.rush-limbaugh alt.politics.republicans alt.politics.usa.republicans alt.politics.bush alt.politics.clinton The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

Hee-HEE… You don’t get it, because you can’t…people like what you (and a few others) _assume_ I am don’t _truly_ care who’s President, because they know who has the real power, and it ain’t the President, Bush or Gore. It’s just embarrassing to have a nouveau riche hillbilly boob and a wannabe Leona Helmsly/Eleanor Roosevelt like Bill and Hilary as figureheads.  As to the American voter, please.  Most will vote for such simplistic reasons as to be laughable.   If you Gore fans really knew anything about him, you might realize he’s just like Bush, but without at least some ethics (or backbone).  He’s a rich kid who did drugs, used Dad’s influence to stay out of combat in Vietnam (well, really Dad made damn sure they stayed out of combat), whose family made money from things like oil (BTW, Gore, Sr. and Armand Hammer were pretty big buddies and the Gore family trusts, one of which Al, Jr. is a trustee, still benefit pretty tidily), banking, real estate, tobacco, etc., went to private schools as an "insider," etc. Gore is just a weak-willed fop who got mixed up with wrong crowd – just like the nouveau riche kid who gets into trouble. He only got into politics because _his_ father was a pol.  Bush may not be the best man for the job, but he’s the best in a field of two…  

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Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC

Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. —

Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  I have yet to see a single fact from you, only personal attacks, remarks I guess you mean to be "biting," and a bunch of mealy-mouthed Bush-bashing.  Let’s see some facts disputing a single thing I’ve said about Gore (or Clinton).  You make all these claims and statements, and when someone calls you on it, you "attack."  Frankly, I thought you were more intelligent, and at least had some basis for your opinions, but I guess it is I who should feel sorry for you… BTW, don’t feel sorry for me – I’ll be out of the city starting tomorrow, and for a few days I won’t give a flying fuck who doing what or who in Washington or New York. TC, R

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you.

I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.      - Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.) — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.     – Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.)

Well, you know what they say, "If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything the Democrats say" <G.   FWIW, I’ll say it again: G.W.B. ain’t Dad, good, bad, or ugly and Gore ain’t Clinton, good, bad, or ugly, but even in the worst case, Bush is less bad than Gore.  Hell, I could even respect someone who voted for Gore if they could make a factual, logical case _why_ they are _for_ Gore. TC, R

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Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.   Besides the ones I’ve suggested there’s lots of  alt.rush.*** groups that would welcome  you post. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.   So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us.

Fine with me – as I said, I’m content to agree to disagree.  I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I even truly respect the well-thought-out ones that differ from my own.  I also hope you have a speedy recovery <G. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life…

Now THAT’S sad…<G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.  

Guten Tag, Herr Sch… Oops.. Well now, see?   Here is something we can agree on…you are absolutely correct – I posted facts, and cites as I saw requested, yet I saw no controverting facts posted, and when I asked direct questions, they were evaded.  So far, you have posted none, but simply responded with (poorly written) attacks.  I guess that’s OK, since you are basically a troll, so end of subthread for me…

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Question:

BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart Have you hooked a chinook?

Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though. Of  the species I’ve caught ( I admit to being an Atlantic virgin), steelhead are the most unpredictable, one second they are sulking deep, the next the line is slack and they are doing five or six consecutive jumps and then off for another long run right on the surface. unbelievable! Stevo the experienced (yah right)

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Now why would those in the east want to stock those damn silly, wimp western salmon that only procreate once then leave their rotting, stinking carcasses in the water, when they have their own robust salmon that can procreate many times? Chris Richer (east of the flat spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Stevo the wanderer (NOT) <g Dave L.

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.  The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g Dave LaCourse

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Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though.

I’ve seen plenty of hooked chinook jump & splash.  Saw a 20+ lber come about 3 feet out of the water last Thursday on the Pere Marquette in Michigan.  Maybe the fish here are different.  They tend to darken up really quick.  I’ve seen lots of photos of silver fish caught out of western rivers. Mu

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Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.  The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g

Is that the Sebago Lake strain?  Also, what’s a Sunapee? Mu

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Mu Young: <<Is that the Sebago Lake strain?  Also, what’s a Sunapee? No.  Not coming out of lakes/rivers in Labrador! I believe the Sunapee is actually a land-locked Arctic Char (Salvelinus alpinus).  It’s called the Blueback Trout in some Maine waters. Dave

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Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though. I’ve seen plenty of hooked chinook jump & splash.  Saw a 20+ lber come about 3 feet out of the water last Thursday on the Pere Marquette in Michigan.  Maybe the fish here are different.  They tend to darken up really quick.  I’ve seen lots of photos of silver fish caught out of western rivers. Mu

  That’s only because its alot easier to jump out of your waters and tailwalk, being so full of chemicals and all <g…. Hey look on the bright side another 10 years or so and you won’t even need a boat to go fishing on the "lakes" "lake michigan…..too thick to drink, too thin to plow" Stevo the troller

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.

Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g Dave LaCourse

  Cheers

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Steve Cooper: <<Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) Yep!  One and the same.  <g

Response:

Steve Cooper: <<Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) Yep!  One and the same.  <g

Ah hell before you know it I’ll be able to catch those on the West coast as well. Just let our salmon farms screw up and have a few more large escapements like the 30,000 yearlings that just escaped a Port McNiel farm, or the 60,000 smolts involuntarily released in Washington’s Puget Sound, and we may have to beat these things off our lines just to get at a good natural wild salmon.

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BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

Have you hooked a chinook? Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

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Have you hooked a chinook?

No, but I did once know a guy who tried to drown a brown, get nookie brom a brookie, and pass a bass!

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I did’nt forget them.  It was about Atlantic salmon, "King of the Sportfish".  I agree about steelies.  They are one of the best (of course)! Land locked salmon are also right up there.  Although they don’t get too big in Maine, they are a ball to watch tail walking. (I hope this doesn’t start a thread:  *MY* fish is better’n your fish!

But,… but,… but…. my fish IS better than your fish…… and my dad can so nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah nyah. BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Stevo the wanderer (NOT) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <g Dave L.

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Sheldonn Michael Pardy writes: <<If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day. Uhhhhhh, you fought a 10 pound fish for 1 1/2 hours?  What ever happened to the old rule of a pound a minute?  I realize Atlantic Salmon are the fighters of all time, but an hour and a half.  Seems exceedingly long, sir.  I will agree about the bass, however. Dave L.

 Dave Not just exceedingly long, but lethal as well. Although Atlantics are well known for both their fighting prowess and tenacity towards survival, this fish if released was probably dead shortly thereafter. The lactic acid buildup in the muscular tissues (remember that salmonids are basically on BIG muscle) would likely have been lethal. Nothing to be particularly of, Sheldon. BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

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1.5 hours? You are full of shit. Next time you take an assignment as a flack, learn how to lie creditably. Dave

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday I did’nt forget them.  It was about Atlantic salmon, "King of the Sportfish".  I agree about steelies.  They are one of the best (of course)! Land locked salmon are also right up there.  Although they don’t get too big in Maine, they are a ball to watch tail walking.   (I hope this doesn’t start a thread:  *MY* fish is better’n your fish! <g Dave L.

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David Snedeker, the scribe, writes: <<1.5 hours? You are full of shit. Next time you take an assignment as a flack, learn how to lie creditably. ROFL.  Don’t mix your words, David.  Tell the fool *exactly* what you think of him.  That’s what I love about you, David; you are about as subtle as a nuclear weapon.  <g Dave L. (the calm Dave)  d;0)

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One and a half hours to land a ten pound fish???  I think, perhaps, that you need a bit heavier outfit.  If you want to be in a position to release salmon and steelhead in some degree of health, you have to get them in and released in a lot less time.  I suspect that your ten pound Atlantic Salmon was one that you kept.  If not, I doubt if he lived very long after being released. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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        If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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Sheldon, Sounds like fun. When is the best time to go? Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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        If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. …

I’d love to. When the provincial government repeals those pernicious guide laws I’ll drop a dime in Newfoundland and Labrador too. Until then, I won’t fish there. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

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Hey, Something fishy here.  If you took that long to land a little 10 pounder, you were abusing the fish and probably harming its chances of survival (assuming that you released it). Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

Response:

Sheldonn Michael Pardy writes:

<<If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day. Uhhhhhh, you fought a 10 pound fish for 1 1/2 hours?  What ever happened to the old rule of a pound a minute?  I realize Atlantic Salmon are the fighters of all time, but an hour and a half.  Seems exceedingly long, sir.  I will agree about the bass, however. Dave L.

Response:

Response:

<a bunch of stuff he should have proof read first!!!!! Not just exceedingly long, but lethal as well. Although Atlantics are well known for both their fighting prowess and tenacity towards survival, this fish if released was probably dead shortly thereafter. The lactic acid buildup in the muscular tissues (remember that salmonids are basically on

<<<that should be ONE not on BIG muscle) would likely have been lethal. Nothing to be particularly of, Sheldon.

That should be "not particularly PROUD of, Sheldon" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

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Question:

Tyler You have a great rod for the money, I don’t know what happened to your rod but I can say for a fact that you will be well taken care of . BTW Sage makes good rods to but they break to and so do the rest of them and guess what so do cars. Just my .02 worth. Good Luck KW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank’s for the help guys.  I sent my rod in to get repaired/replaced the other day.  I hope they replace it.  I guess my real question is if there is a better made rod out there for around the same price.  I paid about $150 for it.  I know Sage makes good rods, but I’ve seen how much they cost. Can’t quite afford them.  Maybe someday. Thanks Again, Tyler FYI Diamondback has an unconditional lifetime warranty KW I think Diamondback has a replacement guarantee. Take it back to the dealer or call Diamondback yourself. Use the number on your warranty registration card. Fixing graphite rods doesn’t work well because of the brittleness of the material. There can be micro-cracks in the rod distant from the break. If diamondback doesn’t replace the rod with a new one, then buy a rod from a company that has a good guarantee next time. Slammed my 8 year old sage into the liftgate on my Explorer….replaced. The tip on my friends Sage was broken by the guide he hired….replaced. Another friend lent his custom Sage to a friend and the friend broke the tip off…Sage sent him a new blank. You spend too much money on these fragile things not to have a replacement guarantee. Steve Yes,  most common cause of that is the ferrule has worked loose.  I once caught 15 fish and had the rod explode on a cast when that happened. The good news,  there is a good chance Diamondback will work with you on replacing it. There is a chance that the ferrule is done incorrectly.  If that is the case Diamondback will probably give you a new rod.  Call them. Alright, I just bought a new setup a couple of weeks ago.  An Orvis 5/6 Rocky Mountain reel with a 9′ 6wt. Diamondback 3 piece rod.  The reel is great, but the middle section of the rod snapped right at the top ferrule while I was casting.  It was only my second time out with it.  Has anyone else had this problem with these rods, or is it just my bad luck? Tyler Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

An Orvis 5/6 Rocky Mountain reel with a 9′ 6wt. Diamondback 3 piece rod.  The reel is great, but the middle section of the rod snapped right at the top ferrule while I was casting.  It was only my second time out with it.  Has anyone else had this problem with these rods, or is it just my bad luck?

Not your bad luck, I’ve had two Diamondbacks, both snapped at the ferrulles during normal casting. While they are guaranteed, it is a major PITA. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

An Orvis 5/6 Rocky Mountain reel with a 9′ 6wt. Diamondback 3 piece rod.  The reel is great, but the middle section of the rod snapped right at the top ferrule while I was casting.  It was only my second time out with it.  Has anyone else had this problem with these rods, or is it just my bad luck? Not your bad luck, I’ve had two Diamondbacks, both snapped at the ferrulles during normal casting. While they are guaranteed, it is a major PITA.

I don’t know so I will have to ask this question.  IF your Diamondback doesn’t have a guide RIGHT AT THE BASE of that ferrule station, the fulcrum point is missing which absorbs the shear forces, thus stopping ferrules from snapping off at the base.  Another thing that is important Wayne is properly placed guides at the base of ferrules (both sides) remove a tremendous amount of male/female ferrule wear.  Therefore, IF there are no GUIDES at the base of the butt section immediately below the ferrule, that may very well be the reason these Diamondbacks are breaking at the point. Just another bastardly comment and suggestion. — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site http://www.gink.com  

Question:

: Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated : by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from : sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible : culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like : the main culprit to me.   I don’t know the answer, but I believe we can rule out global warming. Might be a problem in the future, say 20 years or more, but not now.  At least I don’t see how the problem as it is today is ruining the population.   Are you sure the fish aren’t just staying out at sea becasue they are afraid of bombs?  It is time for Ireland to solve their problems.  Let it go. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I just got back from two weeks in Northwest Ireland. Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  

Doubt if you’ll find too many people agreeing with you. (‘cept for the netters and fish-farmers of course)  :-)) Sea-trout and salmon stocks were fine in the past when peat cutting was just as extensive. It makes the water look bad, but the fish don’t seem to mind too much. Most interesting thing is to see how well stocks recover in any particular river system as soon as estuary or sea-loch salmon farming is stopped for a while. Its almost instantaneous. Too much netting at sea, and overfishing for the Krill/shrimps/sand-eels the fish live on is the popular choice for the overall drop in numbers. If you you want to fish Eire/UK for salmon or sea-trout, come soon  - and don’t be too hopeful. You still seem to have some fine fishing in USA. I know you’ve had your problems, but I wish we’d looked after ours half as well. Seems to me the pressures seem to be increasing all over tho’. Sometimes the only way to take my mind off it is to go fishing. Tight lines Ian D

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It is time for Ireland to solve their problems.  Let it go.

Unfortunately, the Irish are not just damaging their own fisheries – they are also netting huge numbers of salmon passing the west coast of Ireland on their way back from the North Atlantic to Wales, Southern England, France, Spain.  They take far more Welsh fish, for example, than are caught in Wales by both rods and nets..  Political pressure has so far achieved little.  And it is said that this netting, much of which is illegal, is a big source of funds for the IRA..  :-( — Phil Jones South Wales

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Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea.  Signs along many streams pleaded "Save our Sea Trout."

That’s the name of a very worthwhile organisation which has been campaigning for several years against the inshore salmon farming which has wrecked the sea trout runs.  The damage is done by massive infestations of sea lice.  The evidence is overwhelming. Send SOS a contribution and ask for some of their newsletters.  SOS, PO Box 69, Galway, EIRE. Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  There is a lot of water in Ireland, and a lot of bedrock too. Good spawning gravel is hard to find, and what little there is looked brown, silted and peaty to me….at least where I fished, in the Connemarra district.

You forgot agricultural pollution of the spawning streams and lakes, commercial gravel extraction from river beds, over-fishing (in the rivers and lakes), etc.. — Phil Jones

Response:

I just got back from two weeks in Northwest Ireland. Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea.  Signs along many streams pleaded "Save our Sea Trout." Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  There is a lot of water in Ireland, and a lot of bedrock too. Good spawning gravel is hard to find, and what little there is looked brown, silted and peaty to me….at least where I fished, in the Connemarra district. Still, there are a few fish left, and it (all of Ireland) is a very beautiful place.   The Irish people–in particular–were the highlight of the trip. DIBBLING:      I learned a new fishing technique on one of the big Loughs: dibbling.  Local fly fishermen apparently dibble in rivers too, for both salmon and sea trout.   I’m looking forward to trying it back here, in Montana.  What is it? Put a relatively heavy wet fly on the end of the leader.  Then, maybe two feet back up the leader, put a bushy dry fly on a 6" dropper.  Cast across stream and pick up the rod tip until the dry fly is out of the water. Then bob the rod tip to make the dryfly look like a dancing caddis fly. On Lough Corrib, brown trout to 10 lbs smack’em like candy. Anybody ever try dibbliing over hear? Last note:       They have beautiful jungle cock necks for less than $75.00 in Dublin. I almost bought one.  But I managed to resist. Too bad nobody raises jungle cock.  I’d buy it for sure, if they weren’t dissapearing……like the sea trout? — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  * http://www.avicom.net/sandy                   */

Response:

Question:

I just recently got a 4 piece Sage 8 wt. DS rod, and it broke while I was casting. I took it back to the local fly fishing shop and they sent the top 3 pieces back to Sage. He said it would take a few weeks to get back, I was rather disatisfied. It took 4 weeks. I just got the rod back a couple of days ago. However, it turns out that Sage only sent me back 2 of the 3 sections that were sent in and I have yet to hear back from them on whether they’ve found the piece or not. I think that since it’s Sage’s fault for mislocating the piece that they should ship it to my local fly shop via priority mail, either overnight or 2 day. Is there anything that I can do to speed up the process? or anything? Thanx in advance. Tite Lines, David Dreisbach

Response:

: I just recently got a 4 piece Sage 8 wt. DS rod, and it broke while I was : casting. : I took it back to the local fly fishing shop and they sent the top 3 : pieces back : to Sage. He said it would take a few weeks to get back, I was rather : disatisfied. : It took 4 weeks. I just got the rod back a couple of days ago. However, it : turns : out that Sage only sent me back 2 of the 3 sections that were sent in and : I : have yet to hear back from them on whether they’ve found the piece or not. : I think : that since it’s Sage’s fault for mislocating the piece that they should : ship it to : my local fly shop via priority mail, either overnight or 2 day. Is there : anything : that I can do to speed up the process? or anything? Thanx in advance. : : Tite Lines, : David Dreisbach David, Try calling Sage at 1-800-533-3004 and ask for their Customer Service Dept or have your shop call them. They have been good to me on broken prime and blems. I’ve only had one break while casting, the others while wrapping on guides. Keep your feet dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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Hi,  I would consider 4 weeks turnaround as extremely good service. Some of the turnaround times I’ve dealt with were not measured in weeks OR months. The loss of the section is quite sloppy however.   Graphite can not be repaired so the section you were sent was a mismatched piece, a testimonial to consistent manufacturing if it still acts the same.   Bamboo can be easily repaired in the event of a mishap but it always takes much longer to get it fixed. Good release, A.J.Thramer

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Try calling their 800 number(206)842-6608, and discuss the problem with the warranty department.  The Sage Company is a very reasonable and reputable group…they will probably take good care of you.

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Question:

: Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it : has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a : Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it Stuff deleted : fly fishing. I have caught 19 brown trout in 2 1/2 hours : with this fly (largest one was 14 in.).                                  ^^^^^^ Boy, that’s one big fly! : Darryl Charley

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Dry flies.
My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat
renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said
it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only
one that ties this on when nothing is working???
–
MGC Top Down Design Support

Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it has a floss mid-section just like a Royal Coachman. Red floss works well, but I have caught quite a few on green and yellow also. Sizes from 16 to 20. It’s been my experience that even when the fish aren’t rising, that if you drift one of these through a riffle around a dozen times, (if there are any fish) they start coming to the surface to take a look. I know I’m going to get a lot of disbelief on this, thats why I have hesitated writing, but the last time out with a buddy, I gave him a few and told him how to fish them, and he had the best day he ever had fly fishing. I have caught 19 brown trout in 2 1/2 hours with this fly (largest one was 14 in.). Darryl

Response:

Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

Response:

Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you

The most productive pattern over the last two years has been the Micro Worm (a variation on the San Juan worm). Most satisfying experience was last year when we took out a young fellow new to the sport. It was slow fishing but he hooked the first fish of the day, and the last. The last was a twenty five inch Brown. The huge grin that he was sporting is not something that will be soon forgotten. Sort of puts it all back in perspective. Flyfishing is supposed to be fun for all involved. Jim

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A list of favorite patterns would have to include the Tom Thumb, pheasant tail nymph, serendipity(?), comparadun, Werners nymph. I have by best luck on the BlackWater River in B.C. and on the Deschutes in Oregon.

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: Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most : productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light : Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years : of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you : guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks. My best luck on dry flies comes with a #22 griffith’s gnat, #20 light cahill (both on the swift river), and #16-18 elk hair or poly wing caddis of the appropriate color (on the deerfield river).  The adams can’t be beat for a standard search pattern or as a reasonable facsimile of most hatches.

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For both here in Upper Michigan and Alaska, I like the Humpy.  Great floatability in the fast waters I fish.  I went through no less than forty of them here in the U.P. last year.  My second favorite is the elk hair caddis.      Steve Kernosky   *         Accept me for what I am, Michigan Tech. Univ.  *         completely unacceptable.

Response:

Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

My favorite pattern, the one I find myself digging for again and again is a #20-22 blond elk-hair caddis.  Caught the most on these boys. (central and southern Missouri) My biggist fish (20 1/2"  #4 3/4 Brown) was on a #6 McSalmon on the Madison. Kevin Franden                                   Informix Software, Inc.                                                 16011 College Blvd uunet!infmx!kevinf #include <patchlevel.h fprintf(DISCLAIMER,"I said what I said.n");       You only live once but if you do it right, once is enough                               Carpe Diem

Response:

Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

I carry lots of  flys but give me a Pheasant Tail Nymph, a Prince Nymph, and an assortment of  Elk Hair caddis and Para-duns and  I’ll be happy 90% of  the time. Here are my favorite patterns Nymphs & wet flys: Pheasant Tail Nymph ( Al Troth version)   Prince Nymph Zug Bug           Jay’s Stone ( my own ) March Brown Spider   Mini Leech                 Wooly Bugger               Dry Flys: Elk Hair Caddis Para-Dun Mac Salmon Dave’s Hopper Black Ant Griffiths Gnat Humpy Old Standbys: Adams Black Gnat Light Cahill Royal Wulff Muddler Minnow Ive done most of my fly fishing in Oregon and I have had the best fishing in these streams and some high lakes: Lower Deschutes Crooked River Metolius Wood Williamson Klamath

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My favorite has to be the Humpie. It’s produced many memorable days. Second is the Parachute Adams or  a similiar fly tied in brown. Biggest was a 24"  Rainbow( really) on a floating foam chrionomid. Bead head hairs ears are the favorite nymph- while maybe the Prince should be number one.

Response:

Re: Dry flies. My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only one that ties this on when nothing is working??? — MGC Top Down Design Support

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Dry flies. My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only one that ties this on when nothing is working??? — MGC Top Down Design Support Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it has a floss mid-section just like a Royal Coachman. Red floss works well, but I have caught quite a few on green and yellow also. Sizes from 16 to 20.

This sounds a lot like a "Sierra Bright Dot". It has grizzly hackle at the head and butt of the fly and *bright* orange floss in the middle.  I’ve done real well with them on some high country Sierra Nevada lakes. — John Fereira   "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA Viacom Cable Division

Response:

Question:

Peterson)" says: anyone have some good try fly patterns for fur and no dry hackle i have a tremendous amont of varied fur as i live near a furrier possum, beaver, mink, otter, wolf, fox, muskrat etc. thanks — gp

Comparaduns.  

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Looking for information on the upper Kings River, above Pine Flat dam. I read an earlier posting on the area around Courtright Res., and would love some specifics on that area, as I live very close.  What about the Bear Creek Diversion and above?  Any one have any comments and or experiences up in those parts?  Thanks in advance. Sean

Hi Sean: Bear Creek above the dam to Twin Falls (especially the 100 yards or so just below the falls) is fairly good for brook trout from late May to early July.  But be prepared for mosquitos from late June on.  It’s a real nice day trip. The only fishing I’ve done on the Kings River is on the South Fork in Paradise Valley (7 miles in from Cedar Grove Road end).  Really nice just before Memorial Day when the black ants start flying.  It’s my Spring ritual to work out the kinks. Mark

Response:

    The upper Kings river used to be an awsome fishery. Large rainbows.  I havent fished it since 1986 but when I did I caught four large bows on a stonefly nymph.   They ranged from 20-24 inches and were thick bodied.  I don’t know if the drought affected the fishery or not.  Of course this time of the year the enormous runoff makes fishing difficult at best and you have to compete with the river rafters. You should also be advised to keep a sharp eye on your step the rattlers are everywhere and they are gigantic.  I have even seen them swimming in the river.  My advise to you is to take the dirt road at the second bridge, take the road on the side of the river that you are on before you cross the bridge otherwise you will encounter to much rafter traffic enroute to or coming from Garnet Dike area which is a favorite raft launching spot.  Good luck.      Regarding bear diversion ;  Good area small trout but plentifull, mostly brookies. I know some fantastic fishing areas in the Kaiser wilderness area that I dont necessarily want to share with the world  but if you will E-mail me personally I will share them privately because you are a FSU Bulldog.  What do you think about the Shark getting hired?  You should also be aware that Bear CCreek is out at least till Memorial day because of the snow. My sources with SCE say that Kaiser Pass probebly

Response:

i have recently aquirred a tremendous amount of fur due to the fact  we live down the road from a furrier. i was wondering if anyone had any pattern recipes for some of this fur . Some of it is red fox silver fox, norwegian wolf, otter, beaver, mink, raccoon, oppossum, muskrat sa well as others i cant determine. As of the moment i have no dry hackle and an abundance of this fur so i am tying patterns that exclusively call for it. the dubbing needless to say is varied and tremendous — gp

Response:

anyone have some good try fly patterns for fur and no dry hackle i have a tremendous amont of varied fur as i live near a furrier possum, beaver, mink, otter, wolf, fox, muskrat etc. thanks — gp

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what is going on with this group i sent 4 postings and they have all gone with the rest of them is there some time limit on the postingsand is it possible to read old back posting  thanks — gp

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: i have recently aquirred a tremendous amount of fur due to the fact  we : live down the road from a furrier. i was wondering if anyone had any : pattern recipes for some of this fur . Some of it is red fox silver fox, : norwegian wolf, otter, beaver, mink, raccoon, oppossum, muskrat sa well : as others i cant determine. As of the moment i have no dry hackle and an : abundance of this fur so i am tying patterns that exclusively call for it. : the dubbing needless to say is varied and tremendous : — : gp —It sounds like you can tie just about any nymph there is.  For dries you definately want some hackle (or duck quills for no hackle dries).                                 jamie

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Tie the Rhycophilia Caddis pupa (sp?).  It’ just a fur dubbed body.  Add some long hair to the head as legs.  All you need are some 200R or 205BL hooks. Substitute hair for tail, wingcase and legs in most patterns and you’ll be able to tie most nymphs.  Invent your own patterns!  Gold Ribbed Mink Stole… –jim

Response:

i have recently aquirred a tremendous amount of fur due to the fact  we live down the road from a furrier. i was wondering if anyone had any pattern recipes for some of this fur . Some of it is red fox silver fox, norwegian wolf, otter, beaver, mink, raccoon, oppossum, muskrat sa well as others i cant determine. As of the moment i have no dry hackle and an abundance of this fur so i am tying patterns that exclusively call for it. the dubbing needless to say is varied and tremendous — gp

I got your messages.  Drop a not on my email directly. Lenny Bloksberg . .

Response:

anyone have some good try fly patterns for fur and no dry hackle i have a tremendous amont of varied fur as i live near a furrier possum, beaver, mink, otter, wolf, fox, muskrat etc. thanks — gp

Zonkers, Bunny leaches, Kiwi Mudlers, These use patches of tanned hide with the hair on.  They are the easiest way I know of to use up lots of tanned hides with fur on.  Otherwise, TRADE!  I’m sure lots of folks would be happy to trade something they have in excess for your fur, myself included. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

Response:

GP– sounds like a great find. You might try a fly called the Usual, It’s kind of a Comparadun/emerger cross. It uses guard and underfur tied up for a wing and underfur for dubbing. It also has guard hair for a tail. You might want to consider getting yourself a dry fly neck, you have some great dubbing for it (esp. the beaver otter and mukrat) if they haven’t been processed to much. Otherwise any of your furs would work for different nymph patterns.

Another thing he might consider doing is going into a flyfishing shop and see if they are interested in trading some of the fur for some hackle necks. Not all flyfishing shops will accept furs but some will.  Heck, he might be able to find some people here that would be willing to do some trades. Some might even be willing to purchase some of the fur from you outright and then he could use the money to buy some hackle necks. — John Fereira   "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA Viacom Cable Division

Response:

Tie the Rhycophilia Caddis pupa (sp?).  It’ just a fur dubbed body.  Add some long hair to the head as legs.  All you need are some 200R or 205BL hooks. Substitute hair for tail, wingcase and legs in most patterns and you’ll be able to tie most nymphs.  Invent your own patterns!  Gold Ribbed Mink Stole…

So I’m not the only one that has looked at a woman wearing a fur and thought "look at all that fly tying material". — John Fereira   "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA Viacom Cable Division

Response:

Looking for information on the upper Kings River, above Pine Flat dam. I read an earlier posting on the area around Courtright Res., and would love some specifics on that area, as I live very close.  What about the Bear Creek Diversion and above?  Any one have any comments and or experiences up in those parts?  Thanks in advance. Sean

Response: