Question:

JeffC apparently wrote… I’ve heard this many times – when it’s drizzling or raining or snowing, the such-and-such really start hatching.  I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Jeff, I don’t think anyone is saying it is the rain, snow or drizzle is what causes the hatch to kick in.  Think light levels during these periods and you should be able to get up to speed. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching. I got moved out of the best stretch of water by a couple kids who moved in when they saw me catch a fish. They were flinging bobbers the size of tennis balls over the fish that were rising in less than a foot of water. I told them they would do better in the deep pool under the bridge but….. The stretch that I fished usually doesn’t fish very well until the water levels rise. However, with the cloud cover and the drizzle, the fish had moved into a shallow run to feed on the Olives. Being early in the hatch, it seemed that most fish were taking emergers. I caught a couple fish, then the sun came out and although it continued to drizzle, the Olives and the fish stopped. The sun stayed out for about ten minutes and then it took about another ten before the Olives and the fish started up again. Took one more fish and then it was time to leave. I tried to watch for Olives on the water, both during periods of cloud cover and during the intermittent sunny periods. I could look over a large placid pool and easily see the Olives on the water. Although the hatch wasn’t heavy, during cloudy periods, there were always at least half a dozen  Olives on the pool but none during the sunny periods. It could be that the Olives were flying off more quickly under the sun, but even though the sun was out, it continued to drizzle. Now that Olive "season" has started, I’ll try and make a point of observing this. Willi

Response:

cut ….. Although the  hatch wasn’t heavy, during cloudy periods, there were always at least half a dozen  Olives on the pool but none during the sunny periods.

I’ve noticed this too. I’ve also noticed–especially in the early season leading up to high water and the salmon fly hatch (here in Montana) –that the fishing often turns on and off  semi-instantly, as the sun alternately hides and shows between dark,  early season cloud cover—–even when there is no apparent hatch of any kind. I’ve seen the fishing on the Big Hole go from spectacular to zip in just a few seconds, the minute a bright sun pops out from behind a cloud.  In the early season, I want to see those clam chowder skies…..and no wind.  Maybe that’s what they have in paradise:  60 degrees with fuzzy clouds and a soft rain, and no wind. And lots of trout streams.  On on my way.

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching.

How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

Response:

How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

Impact of rain on surface, chemical change in water, change in surface interaction with "light", stick their heads out and look? GKT

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching. How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

It was more in response to a comment that we see more Mayflies on the water during cloudy weather because it takes more time for them to dry (seems plausible). Later in my post I talked about not seeing many Mayflies when it was sunny, although it still continued to drizzle. Sun and drizzle at the same time wouldn’t seem to be too conducive to drying. Willi

Response:

It was more in response to a comment that we see more Mayflies on the water during cloudy weather because it takes more time for them to dry (seems plausible). Later in my post I talked about not seeing many Mayflies when it was sunny, although it still continued to drizzle. Sun and drizzle at the same time wouldn’t seem to be too conducive to drying.

I’ve heard this many times – when it’s drizzling or raining or snowing, the such-and-such really start hatching.  I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Response:

I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Well, maybe. But it could also be that the duns are on the surface for a longer time in cold drizzley weather, so the hatch seems heavier. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Question:

No, not the muskie lure.  Over the years I’ve read many posts here extolling the virtues of spinner baits.  I never much liked them, preferring crankbaits, body baits and soft plastics. However, this year I decided to give them a serious try.  In deep dark water I have thrown a black/red with heavy single Colorado blade.  In the spring I was using a silver plated double willow leaf with pumpkinseed colored skirt.  Muddy, post-rain storm conditions on the river I switch to a chartreuse buzzbait.   Over the tops of slop and lily pads.  OK, I like them.  I’ve had good success with spinnerbaits all season. The coup de grace came yesterday. I was standing up on top of the boat, one foot on the gunwhale and one on the dashboard of my friend’s boat.  I had my wide brimmed hat and wrap around polarized sunglasses.  I was fly casting and wanted a high vantage point.  My friend told me that if I damaged his dashboard I’d be crawling back to shore on my hands.  Anyway, it was really slow going.  Suddenly I spotted a large isolated fish cruising in just inches of water.  It was well camouflaged and even with my glasses I could only pick out the silhouette of its dark back.  I wasn’t sure if it was a bass or some other fish.  I turned to my other friend and told him where the fish was.  He threw a chartreuse and white buzzbait just perfectly – ahead of and to the side of the fish in such a way that once retrieved it moves across the field of vision of the fish but also away from the fish, appropriate prey behavior.  The fish changed course once it saw the lure and slowly followed but wouldn’t take.  Finally he stopped retrieving and while it dropped, I saw the mouth opening and the silicone skirt disappear.  "He’s got it! Set the hook!" I yelled and the fish was on.  It was well over five pounds.  The whole episode was very exciting but it all happened so perfectly that we were left speechless for a few moments.  I put away my fly rod and picked up my casting rod which already had a spinner bait attached.  I soon caught a smallish pike. OK, so that was only one incident but it capped off a couple of weeks of good fishing with spinnerbaits and I have gained much more confidence in them.  I still don’t use spoons or jigs too often.   Mu

Response:

Excellent story, thanks for sharing. — Early to Bed, Early to Rise…    Fish all Day, Make up Lies    Shawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, not the muskie lure.  Over the years I’ve read many posts here extolling the virtues of spinner baits.  I never much liked them, preferring crankbaits, body baits and soft plastics. However, this year I decided to give them a serious try.  In deep dark water I have thrown a black/red with heavy single Colorado blade.  In the spring I was using a silver plated double willow leaf with pumpkinseed colored skirt.  Muddy, post-rain storm conditions on the river I switch to a chartreuse buzzbait. Over the tops of slop and lily pads.  OK, I like them.  I’ve had good success with spinnerbaits all season. The coup de grace came yesterday. I was standing up on top of the boat, one foot on the gunwhale and one on the dashboard of my friend’s boat.  I had my wide brimmed hat and wrap around polarized sunglasses.  I was fly casting and wanted a high vantage point.  My friend told me that if I damaged his dashboard I’d be crawling back to shore on my hands.  Anyway, it was really slow going.  Suddenly I spotted a large isolated fish cruising in just inches of water.  It was well camouflaged and even with my glasses I could only pick out the silhouette of its dark back.  I wasn’t sure if it was a bass or some other fish.  I turned to my other friend and told him where the fish was.  He threw a chartreuse and white buzzbait just perfectly – ahead of and to the side of the fish in such a way that once retrieved it moves across the field of vision of the fish but also away from the fish, appropriate prey behavior.  The fish changed course once it saw the lure and slowly followed but wouldn’t take.  Finally he stopped retrieving and while it dropped, I saw the mouth opening and the silicone skirt disappear.  "He’s got it! Set the hook!" I yelled and the fish was on.  It was well over five pounds.  The whole episode was very exciting but it all happened so perfectly that we were left speechless for a few moments.  I put away my fly rod and picked up my casting rod which already had a spinner bait attached.  I soon caught a smallish pike. OK, so that was only one incident but it capped off a couple of weeks of good fishing with spinnerbaits and I have gained much more confidence in them.  I still don’t use spoons or jigs too often. Mu

Response:

Mu, I got into spinner baits last year, blame it on Warren. Recently, my oldest son and I was out.  I picked up one of my rods pretied with a spinner bait.  He fishes mostly with natural looking lures, and gave me a odd look.  "You catch things on that?", he asked. When you think about it, a spinner bait looks nothing like what the Beauties normally forage on.  Can’t imagine what ran through the mind of the person who invented the first one! On my second cast, I hooked into a nice 2+ pound beauty.  "Sometimes," I said! —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, not the muskie lure.  Over the years I’ve read many posts here extolling the virtues of spinner baits.  I never much liked them, preferring crankbaits, body baits and soft plastics. However, this year I decided to give them a serious try.  In deep dark water I have thrown a black/red with heavy single Colorado blade.  In the spring I was using a silver plated double willow leaf with pumpkinseed colored skirt.  Muddy, post-rain storm conditions on the river I switch to a chartreuse buzzbait. Over the tops of slop and lily pads.  OK, I like them.  I’ve had good success with spinnerbaits all season. The coup de grace came yesterday. I was standing up on top of the boat, one foot on the gunwhale and one on the dashboard of my friend’s boat.  I had my wide brimmed hat and wrap around polarized sunglasses.  I was fly casting and wanted a high vantage point.  My friend told me that if I damaged his dashboard I’d be crawling back to shore on my hands.  Anyway, it was really slow going.  Suddenly I spotted a large isolated fish cruising in just inches of water.  It was well camouflaged and even with my glasses I could only pick out the silhouette of its dark back.  I wasn’t sure if it was a bass or some other fish.  I turned to my other friend and told him where the fish was.  He threw a chartreuse and white buzzbait just perfectly – ahead of and to the side of the fish in such a way that once retrieved it moves across the field of vision of the fish but also away from the fish, appropriate prey behavior.  The fish changed course once it saw the lure and slowly followed but wouldn’t take.  Finally he stopped retrieving and while it dropped, I saw the mouth opening and the silicone skirt disappear.  "He’s got it! Set the hook!" I yelled and the fish was on.  It was well over five pounds.  The whole episode was very exciting but it all happened so perfectly that we were left speechless for a few moments.  I put away my fly rod and picked up my casting rod which already had a spinner bait attached.  I soon caught a smallish pike. OK, so that was only one incident but it capped off a couple of weeks of good fishing with spinnerbaits and I have gained much more confidence in them.  I still don’t use spoons or jigs too often. Mu

Response:

I flat-out love spinnerbaits and fish them every chance I get. They are easy to use, extremely versatile, they seldom snag and they really catch fish. Interesting how the more I use them and the more things I try, the more I catch on them. I have probably used spinnerbaits about every way they can be used, except with a float (and that will probably happen someday). One of my favorite ways to use spinnerbaits is rapidly coming upon us; summertime deep water patterns. I particularly enjoy catching fish deep with my spinnerbaits while my boatmates are trying to unhang their crankbaits, and then rubbing it in as I land a nice one and promptly go back after another. A great method here is to jig a 3/8 oz. to 1/2 oz. crawfish-colored spinnerbait with a single small ( #3 Oklahoma or #5 Indiana) nickel blade, which I fish with a swift lift of 2′ to 4′ and follow with a slow controlled drop where the strikes take place. It can often be deadly and is always fun. — ~Bob Rickard Vote early and often this November; the country you save may be your own.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mu, I got into spinner baits last year, blame it on Warren. Recently, my oldest son and I was out.  I picked up one of my rods pretied with a spinner bait.  He fishes mostly with natural looking lures, and gave me a odd look.  "You catch things on that?", he asked. When you think about it, a spinner bait looks nothing like what the Beauties normally forage on.  Can’t imagine what ran through the mind of the person who invented the first one! On my second cast, I hooked into a nice 2+ pound beauty.  "Sometimes," I said! —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray No, not the muskie lure.  Over the years I’ve read many posts here extolling the virtues of spinner baits.  I never much liked them, preferring crankbaits, body baits and soft plastics. However, this year I decided to give them a serious try.  In deep dark water I have thrown a black/red with heavy single Colorado blade.  In the spring I was using a silver plated double willow leaf with pumpkinseed colored skirt.  Muddy, post-rain storm conditions on the river I switch to a chartreuse buzzbait. Over the tops of slop and lily pads.  OK, I like them.  I’ve had good success with spinnerbaits all season. The coup de grace came yesterday. I was standing up on top of the boat, one foot on the gunwhale and one on the dashboard of my friend’s boat.  I had my wide brimmed hat and wrap around polarized sunglasses.  I was fly casting and wanted a high vantage point.  My friend told me that if I damaged his dashboard I’d be crawling back to shore on my hands.  Anyway, it was really slow going.  Suddenly I spotted a large isolated fish cruising in just inches of water.  It was well camouflaged and even with my glasses I could only pick out the silhouette of its dark back.  I wasn’t sure if it was a bass or some other fish.  I turned to my other friend and told him where the fish was.  He threw a chartreuse and white buzzbait just perfectly – ahead of and to the side of the fish in such a way that once retrieved it moves across the field of vision of the fish but also away from the fish, appropriate prey behavior.  The fish changed course once it saw the lure and slowly followed but wouldn’t take.  Finally he stopped retrieving and while it dropped, I saw the mouth opening and the silicone skirt disappear. "He’s got it! Set the hook!" I yelled and the fish was on.  It was well over five pounds.  The whole episode was very exciting but it all happened so perfectly that we were left speechless for a few moments.  I put away my fly rod and picked up my casting rod which already had a spinner bait attached.  I soon caught a smallish pike. OK, so that was only one incident but it capped off a couple of weeks of good fishing with spinnerbaits and I have gained much more confidence in them.  I still don’t use spoons or jigs too often. Mu

Response:

Question:

What I was originally opposed to was similar to a librarian saying, "go look in the card catalog it’s got to be there somewhere."  I see a big difference.  Do you?

Thought it was the same thing on both occasions.  The original I was referring to was when someone else posted a link to the source of the info, although not the specific link and got all kinds of flak for it.  Don’t see much difference in it other than the fact that the "librarian" not only gave them the book, but opened it for them to the right page.  Just thought it was kind of funny though. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

What I was originally opposed to was similar to a librarian saying, "go look in the card catalog it’s got to be there somewhere."  I see a big difference.  Do you? Thought it was the same thing on both occasions.  The original I was referring to was when someone else posted a link to the source of the info, although not the specific link and got all kinds of flak for it.  Don’t see much difference in it other than the fact that the librarian" not only gave them the book, but opened it for them to the right page.  Just thought it was kind of funny though.

okay  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

r the record though, I see a difference between someone telling another where the information is apposed to telling them to go SEARCH for it themselves.  What I did is like a librarian taking someone’s hand and waking them over to a book, opening it, and telling them that their answer is right there as they point to a page.  What I was originally opposed to was similar to a librarian saying, "go look in the card catalog it’s got to be there somewhere."  I see a big difference.  Do you? — Vern

I don’t see any difference, Vern, except that you did it instead of me. Actually my post was quite specific in its instructions, and I had been to the sources and knew that they would be very helpful. Pat K

Response:

Let’s start with the TU web-site and then some others are nice when it come to knots. http://www.tutv.org/html/equipment.html http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/knots/table.htm http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk/knots/knots.htm http://www.steelheader.net/knots/knots.htm Now Vern, that wasn’t nice to do.  You should have drawn diagrams and posted step by step instructions instead of pointing to a web site <g

LOL.  Very funny Warren. Just for the record though, I see a difference between someone telling another where the information is apposed to telling them to go SEARCH for it themselves.  What I did is like a librarian taking someone’s hand and waking them over to a book, opening it, and telling them that their answer is right there as they point to a page.  What I was originally opposed to was similar to a librarian saying, "go look in the card catalog it’s got to be there somewhere."  I see a big difference.  Do you? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

Let’s start with the TU web-site and then some others are nice when it come to knots. http://www.tutv.org/html/equipment.html http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/knots/table.htm http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk/knots/knots.htm http://www.steelheader.net/knots/knots.htm

Now Vern, that wasn’t nice to do.  You should have drawn diagrams and posted step by step instructions instead of pointing to a web site <g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

This site has a good description of how to set you rod up and great knot info.  Hope it helps http://www.flyfield.com/davetips.htm. I bought that same rod for my 5 year old son.  He likes it.  You should trash that level line that came with the rod and at least buy a cheap weight forward Scientific Anglers Weight Forward 5 wt floating line for 10 bucks at WallMart.  Your casting will benefit.  When you upgrade you can get premium line at a flyshop.  But the 10 bucks on a WF5F will be well spent. When I started I bought Flyfishing for Dummies.  It was a great help and left nothing to the imagination. Good luck JBB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

then tried to connect the leader and i am baffled

Several people around here swear by Eagle Claw Leader Links.  If you know how to tie overhand knots you can use a leader link. Mu  

Response:

Alex, good luck getting started in fly fishing.  It is difficult to learn by yourself, but you will find it to be very rewarding and enjoyable.  I don’t know of any sites with knots, but a couple have been given so far.

Let’s start with the TU web-site and then some others are nice when it come to knots. http://www.tutv.org/html/equipment.html http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/knots/table.htm http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk/knots/knots.htm http://www.steelheader.net/knots/knots.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -llo everyone..well i am absolutly new to this whole scene of fly fishing. i am going camping in 3 weeks, and decided to go and buy a new reel and rod for the trip.. low and behold, i ended up buying a fly rod and reel with lines included,, ok I am now finding out that good be kinda tacky, and you get what you pay for..hehe.. but nonetheless i am goinmg to learn this, and i hope and intend to be somewhat successful on my first journey out, then while planning my next adventure, i will upgrade all the nessesary equipment,,, so this is what i got,, a south bend rod and reel, 6 1/2 ft. medium action, line class 4/5,, also got fly line (unsure of the weight, balanced floating?) and a knotless tapered leader 7 1/2 ft. 4x 3 lb test,,and some flies.. so i went to beginners net guide to fly fishing,  I attached my line to the reel ( i hope it is correct, i followed the illustrations), then tried to connect the leader and i am baffled,, so i believe i am looking for some help, and possibly other decent web sights that may be a little more informative,? so thank you for any advise,, even harsh critisism.  :) Alex( the new guy)

Welcome to flyfishing Alex.  The outfit you purchased will get you started anyway and you can catch fish with it.  When you want to upgrade, you will probably want an 8 1//2 to 9ft rod, depending on the type of fishing you will be doing.  Get back to us then for more info.  Re knots, you will need to learn several, but you may already know some of them.  For attatching line to leader, you should learn a nail knot (or some folks use a line connector though its considered less reliable), a double surgeons knot and/or a barrel knot for connecting two leader sections or connecting leader to tippet, and a clinch knot, berkeley knot, or improved clinch for connecting tippet to fly.  For detailed instructions on these knots go to : www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm. You may also want to take a flycasting class from a local FF shop, so you get started with correct casting technique. Tight Lines, Pat K

Response:

(snip)

Alex, try this url. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/101/ It should give you a lot of good information to begin with.  In fact, it has a lot of good information for people that have been fishing for a while.  It’s simple to follow and find the information you are looking for. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

Alex, good luck getting started in fly fishing.  It is difficult to learn by yourself, but you will find it to be very rewarding and enjoyable.  I don’t know of any sites with knots, but a couple have been given so far.  I too recommend that you go to a fly fishing shop and get some classes on casting and find someone to help teach you out on the water. If you have any more questions feel free to ask away.  There are a lot of people on this ng who have tons of knowledge and are willing to help.  The down side is that they are all at the conclave right now, but a few of us are still here and will help out as much as we can. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Alex, if you bought the rod, reel, and line as an outfit the line should be right for the rod. You need to purchase some tippet material ( 4X & 5X to start)   The tippet would be tied to the end of the leader with a blood knot or surgeon’s knot, and the butt of the leader attatched to the line with a nail knot. I don’t know of a web site that describes these knots, but I’m sure some of the guys on this group do. You really should get a good book on beginning fly fishing. "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" is the one most commonly recommended in this group. With only three weeks until your trip, your best bet would be to seek out a fly fishermen in your area that would be willing to spend a few hours with you to get you started. One aftrenoon with a competent fly fisherman will give you a jump start and will help you better understand what you read in books. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to email me and I’ll help as much as I can. Good luck! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

hello everyone..well i am absolutly new to this whole scene of fly fishing. i am going camping in 3 weeks, and decided to go and buy a new reel and rod for the trip.. low and behold, i ended up buying a fly rod and reel with lines included,, ok I am now finding out that good be kinda tacky, and you get what you pay for..hehe.. but nonetheless i am goinmg to learn this, and i hope and intend to be somewhat successful on my first journey out, then while planning my next adventure, i will upgrade all the nessesary equipment,,, so this is what i got,, a south bend rod and reel, 6 1/2 ft. medium action, line class 4/5,, also got fly line (unsure of the weight, balanced floating?) and a knotless tapered leader 7 1/2 ft. 4x 3 lb test,,and some flies.. so i went to beginners net guide to fly fishing,  I attached my line to the reel ( i hope it is correct, i followed the illustrations), then tried to connect the leader and i am baffled,, so i believe i am looking for some help, and possibly other decent web sights that may be a little more informative,? so thank you for any advise,, even harsh critisism.  :) Alex( the new guy) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup. Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter.

He said ‘newsgroup’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter.

as does alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup…

- Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well…. Tony Ritter Narrowsburg, New York

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup. Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter. He said ‘newsgroup’<g.

Ouch! That’s gonna leave a mark…

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup… – Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well….

Send ‘em to George. He could use the company…

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup… – Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well…. Tony Ritter Narrowsburg, New York

        post or die, yankee devil! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – post or die, yankee devil! wayno

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there!

Ever seen Basic Instinct?  Michael Douglas called her "the fuck of the century".  And he get’s around, from what I hear. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there!

        in a display of courage that has been a lifetime hallmark, i am willing to give her a shot. wayno

Response:

– Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile.

What, who, huh? BTW, I once mistakenly looked up www.teeny.com thinking it was Jim Teeny’s web site.  For the record, it’s www.teeny-nymph.com. Mu

Response:

Mu Young Lee sets us straight: What, who, huh? BTW, I once mistakenly looked up www.teeny.com thinking it was Jim Teeny’s web site.  For the record, it’s www.teeny-nymph.com.

- Which shouldn’t be confused with: alt.teeny.nymphs 8)* – Sorry….couldn’t resist.

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup.  Ask any who wish to view it to contact you directly and ship it individually.  Some of our members pay per usage on the connection.  If my Queensland buddy in Brisbane gets wind of this he may take a break from "swimming the bar" and hunt you down just for the sport.  Damn near declared ‘roos endangered in parts of Australia because of his over-eagerness! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup.

Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Question:

My friends, lend me your eyes. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail.

Definitely worth a try. George and Co. have never got under my skin (mind you I do see how they can), but I suspect a little tolerance and a big dose of common sense could see us get through. Like the trout we talk often about, we need to be more selective in the lures or baits that we take – and ignore the baits some Cheers JK

Response:

(snipped)

Dave, Add a clause that I am to have all of my deposit retuned in FULL! If you would please. I would like this corrected before moving on. HT

Response:

______  Not fair Mark.  Very undeserving, especially from someone that should be a fair minded attorney? sigh* MR. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default.

This would work if folks had learned anything from what happened in the past, but I don’t think that’s true in all cases. Forgetting the past is a dangerous thing, especially in this case which is in its’ umpteenth cycle in the little passion play called roff. My advice is to ignore the trolls but continue to be wary of the troller (the poetry could start again, you know<g). — Charlie…

Response:

What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust.

Sounds good to me. Will it work? Unlikely, but let’s give it a shot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Well said, Peter.  This is not a matter of anti-George or pro-George.  The guy has a screw loose, and as much as I enjoy picking on him occasionally it is not good for either of us.  Time to treat him like the meower. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper) Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Happy New Year David.  I forgive you. ; ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

<good suggestions snipped Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Best Regards, Dave Blackett aka bc. — Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt — Izaak Walton

Response:

Wayne,    Of course you are correct about this.  He changed his sign from Mr. G to Mr Gink just for this purpose.  He seems to be a firm believer in "there is no such thing as bad publicity".  I for one do not welcome George back to ROFF because I am  a believer in the saying "a leopard can’t change it’s spots".  It won’t be long until he reverts back to the old George that he wants everyone to forget.  I am placing him back on my filter and I hope the members of ROFF don’t repeat too many of his posts in their posts. Happy New Year Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. Wayne

Response:

[genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

holy shit tripper…whatever it is that induced this, can ya send me a shipment? i’ve a bunch of clients that need a dose (toke?) immediately! seriously though – nice thought and hope it works.   jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

(Well thought and balanced guidelines snipped) Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Amen and amen. However, I think it should only pertain to posts from George and his employees.  George might have influence but not control over others that have a financial interest in his products.  It is true that George could influenced other people that have a "financial interest" in his products to make an advertizing post.  However, it is also possible that the other person is acting independently.  If we then baroque Mr. G, we are in the wrong.  Maybe my suggestion is more long-suffering than yours, but I think it’s truly the most fair one.  Let’s give Mr. G. the benefit of the doubt when we can. Mr. G. will either hang or prove himself.  We just need to give him enough rope to tie a noose or pull himself ashore. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all.

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman

In the Big Picture(tm) you’re correct, Herman. But there are already Usenet guidelines that address the broader constructs for discussion groups under the Big 8 hierarchy. Clearly these guidelines have been ignored for some time in this case… This is not legislation that I’ve proposed, it’s a "serving suggestion" that addresses a specific concern in as gentle a fashion as possible while still providing some substance to chew on. Take it or leave it on its own merits. And thanks for your support. /daytripper

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused.

LOL! Ok, Mike, I appreciate your cooperation, if not enthusiastic support. "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible"

That’s ^^^^ profoundly appropriate. /daytripper (saving my dogma from being run over by my karma)

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

My friends, lend me your eyes.

<SNIP

Response:

My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

Question:

Day Tripper: <<The bathroom, however, is acceptable. Though I’ll bet GINK would keep up what’s trying to go down therein, XINK would be the more logical choice ;^) Uh, first put some water in a bucket, Dave.  Then squirt just a little Xink in and watch the oil stain spread.  I wouldn’t want it in my septic system. Dave LaCourse

Response:

hey, if your ginked cdc works, USE it!!   8}  Who are we to judge?? trout – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Y’know….you’d think at some time, youse guys would just plain GIVE IT UP…. there’s no convincing some people about the merits of doing something or not doing something that THEY WANT TO DO…that’s why so many people still smoke, still drive without seatbelts, still shoot heroin, still drink to excess and still wet wade in waters with leeches in them…..speaking words of wisdom, LET IT FU( BE!!! I use CDC extensively, I’d never dress it…..I use Gink occasionally, I’d never say it’s a cure all, but whatever floats your boat…..just stop floating it here, okay??? Larry #:)#

Response:

Wolfgang: <<Seems to me that since the offending parties were indeed engaged in exercising one of their personal freedoms any call for them to cease is in FACT an effort to limit that personal freedom.  The answer to the problem is obvious, nicht wahr?  It’s right there in the excerpt above; "…rest of us don’t NEED watch."  You certainly DON’T need to watch.  Simply refrain from putting the cursor on any posting in the thread and clicking!  If anyone was pissing on my porch I would NOT hold out a cup to catch it. Priceless.  Thanks you.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

My shoes are fine Larry . My definition of Fly Fishing is a bit broader than yours. The brainless part is disturbing though. Hm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey Harry- FLYFISHING?? You call this crap flyfishing??  C’mon…the discussion about nymphing and patterns and mooneyes and waders was about ff’ing….not this endless tirade. If you consider a 50+ post back and forth that says basically nothing more than "yes it does, No it doesn’t" a discussion about flyfishing, then more power to you…as far as I’m concerned, it’s contains no more substance than an argument between the eight year olds that live on my street arguing about superman vs spiderman….the "discussion" has been limited to basically four participants, saying the same thing over and over and I can’t see where any of them have taken the issue streamside to prove it under FLYFISHING conditions…..I don’t fish in my lab, bathroom, kitchen or anywhere else in my house and I don’t think many others do either. Yeah, it’s WONDERFUL that people will be inspired to try something new….but if they were so brainless in the past that they weren’t willing to experiment without given the "intelectual stimulation" provided by an Internet Newsgroup, well…..like I said, for me at least, ENOUGH is ENOUGH. And so a lot of people say there’s too much freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it. The intent of my message was not a call to limit personal freedom, but if these boys want to have a pissin’ contest, there’s no need for them to do it on the porch in front of everybody else….no limitations involved, they can piss all they want, but the rest of us don’t NEED to watch.  "D" key aside, it’s alot of traffic….so let them pull off to the side of the roadway and wash each others shoes. Larry #:)#

When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly…. [However, now] there’s a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there’s too much freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it. President Bill Clinton, 3-22-94, MTV’s "Enough is Enough"

Response:

daytripper signed off:/daytripper (owner/operator of Daytripper Laboratories, Ltd) When you decide to get rid of your lab, may I suggest being absorbed by BDHR,Ltd. This huge multinational conglomerate seems to be buying off a lot of smaller companies and everyone seems to enjoy being associated with Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers. Big Dale

Response:

If you consider a 50+ post back and forth that says basically nothing more than "yes it does, No it doesn’t" a discussion about flyfishing, then more power to you…as far as I’m concerned, it’s contains no more substance than an argument between the eight year olds that live on my street arguing about superman vs spiderman….

[snipped lengthy contribution] I don’t know whether to retort with "Yes it does" or "No it doesn’t", so pick one and consider it my rejoinder ;^) /daytripper

Response:

…look at all the takes with this CDC feather thread?  It’s driven men to set up kitchen laboratories. [snip] George, there are some things I just won’t do – and introducing GINK (or XINK) to my kitchen is one of those things. The bathroom, however, is acceptable. Though I’ll bet GINK would keep up what’s trying to go down therein, XINK would be the more logical choice ;^) /daytripper (owner/operator of Daytripper Laboratories, Ltd)

Should that be Daytripper Lavatories, Unlimited? Doug Knight

Response:

…look at all the takes with this CDC feather thread?  It’s driven men to set up kitchen laboratories.

[snip] George, there are some things I just won’t do – and introducing GINK (or XINK) to my kitchen is one of those things. The bathroom, however, is acceptable. Though I’ll bet GINK would keep up what’s trying to go down therein, XINK would be the more logical choice ;^) /daytripper (owner/operator of Daytripper Laboratories, Ltd)

Response:

 snipped concern: I use CDC extensively, I’d never dress it…..I use Gink occasionally, I’d never say it’s a cure all, but whatever floats your boat…..just stop floating it here, okay??? Larry #:)#

with this CDC feather thread?  It’s driven men to set up kitchen laboratories.  Imagine that!?   I think I’ve caught my limit ten times over on this troll.  I normally don’t drag a fly through the water.   Thank goodness I’m a Catch and Release purist, otherwise, we’d run out of these ‘free risers’ on The Great Roff River. And No, "I’m NOT the World’s Best"  I wish those that think so would learn not to take this  too seriously.– we’re good, but not that good. Mr. G. "We’re just a little bit better"  (JUST KIDDING!)  Golly!  Loosen up everyone! ; )  a smile is worth more then money and  A Ginked Fly is a Happy Fly.

Response:

floating CDC flies in their cocktails tonight. What’s the harm for Christ sake?  I could care less if it was Gink or Mink oil, these guys experimented and stated the results they got , your mileage and mine may and will vary . No big deal.  I will bet more will put something on their CDC flies in the future …just because someone said…never. I kinda like that sprit.They may not float worth a shit but at least they tried something on their own that everyone said was foolish. Harry

; )  Tight Lines Harry. — Mr. G.

Response:

Hey Harry- FLYFISHING?? You call this crap flyfishing??  C’mon…the discussion about nymphing and patterns and mooneyes and waders was about ff’ing….not this endless tirade. If you consider a 50+ post back and forth that says basically nothing more than "yes it does, No it doesn’t" a discussion about flyfishing, then more power to you…as far as I’m concerned, it’s contains no more substance than an argument between the eight year olds that live on my street arguing about superman vs spiderman….the "discussion" has been limited to basically four participants, saying the same thing over and over and I can’t see where any of them have taken the issue streamside to prove it under FLYFISHING conditions…..I don’t fish in my lab, bathroom, kitchen or anywhere else in my house and I don’t think many others do either. Yeah, it’s WONDERFUL that people will be inspired to try something new….but if they were so brainless in the past that they weren’t willing to experiment without given the "intelectual stimulation" provided by an Internet Newsgroup, well…..like I said, for me at least, ENOUGH is ENOUGH. And so a lot of people say there’s too much freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it.

The intent of my message was not a call to limit personal freedom, but if these boys want to have a pissin’ contest, there’s no need for them to do it on the porch in front of everybody else….no limitations involved, they can piss all they want, but the rest of us don’t NEED to watch.  "D" key aside, it’s alot of traffic….so let them pull off to the side of the roadway and wash each others shoes. Larry #:)#

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LJMARM: (mercifully snipped) <<well…..like I said, for me at least, ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Then why, pray tell, do you keep adding to the thread?  <g Dave LaCourse

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Amen to that Larry,  the involved participants should take it to E-mail. There is another cure,  I simply filter it out but my filter list is beginning to get longer than my arm. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Harry- The intent of my message was not a call to limit personal freedom, but if these boys want to have a pissin’ contest, there’s no need for them to do it on the porch in front of everybody else….no limitations involved, they can piss all they want, but the rest of us don’t NEED to watch.  "D" key aside, it’s alot of traffic….so let them pull off to the side of the roadway and wash each others shoes. Larry #:)#

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<snip The intent of my message was not a call to limit personal freedom, but if these boys want to have a pissin’ contest, there’s no need for them to do it on the porch in front of everybody else….no limitations involved, they can piss all they want, but the rest of us don’t NEED to watch.

<snip Seems to me that since the offending parties were indeed engaged in exercising one of their personal freedoms any call for them to cease is in FACT an effort to limit that personal freedom.  The answer to the problem is obvious, nicht wahr?  It’s right there in the excerpt above; "…rest of us don’t NEED watch."  You certainly DON’T need to watch.  Simply refrain from putting the cursor on any posting in the thread and clicking!  If anyone was pissing on my porch I would NOT hold out a cup to catch it.

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Y’know….you’d think at some time, youse guys would just plain GIVE IT UP…. there’s no convincing some people about the merits of doing something or not doing something that THEY WANT TO DO…that’s why so many people still smoke, still drive without seatbelts, still shoot heroin, still drink to excess and still wet wade in waters with leeches in them…..speaking words of wisdom, LET IT FU( BE!!! I use CDC extensively, I’d never dress it…..I use Gink occasionally, I’d never say it’s a cure all, but whatever floats your boat…..just stop floating it here, okay??? Larry #:)#

Hey Larry,      was a time when fishing down stream was frowned on. Beads still be lures or jigs but folks tye and buy them by the ton and still call it Fly fishing. My point being you scream when the thread is not about FF’ing , this one is and you  still   yell.   If the stuff floats the fucking bug (mine) then so much the better what’s the big deal. If it does not, then so be it, but these guys are a least trying something that maybe new to others here and for that I think they deserve a bit  of all right. At the very least it had folks floating CDC flies in their cocktails tonight. What’s the harm for Christ sake?  I could care less if it was Gink or Mink oil, these guys experimented and stated the results they got , your mileage and mine may and will vary . No big deal.  I will bet more will put something on their CDC flies in the future …just because someone said…never. I kinda like that sprit.They may not float worth a shit but at least they tried something on their own that everyone said was foolish. Harry When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly…. [However, now] there’s a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there’s too much freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it. President Bill Clinton, 3-22-94, MTV’s "Enough is Enough"

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Y’know….you’d think at some time, youse guys would just plain GIVE IT UP…. there’s no convincing some people about the merits of doing something or not doing something that THEY WANT TO DO…that’s why so many people still smoke, still drive without seatbelts, still shoot heroin, still drink to excess and still wet wade in waters with leeches in them…..speaking words of wisdom, LET IT FU( BE!!! I use CDC extensively, I’d never dress it…..I use Gink occasionally, I’d never say it’s a cure all, but whatever floats your boat…..just stop floating it here, okay??? Larry #:)#

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Question:

Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. I wuould love it if someone could give me instructions on this. Thank you. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

Response:

My name is clayton and i live in British Columbia Canada, i spey-fish all the time on the rivers up here and love it. The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. I wuould love it if someone could give me instructions on this. Thank you. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it.

 The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher.

Does this video deal only with classic double taper line spey casting or the extended weight forward "windcutter" or "Launcher" lines with which you shoot a lot of running line on each cast?  Most folks "south of the border" are going to be using the more modern line systems…  Jim Vincent has decent video for those types of lines, although he does seem to have a hard time with a left handed single spey.  I’m just waiting for the rivers to clear and the sea to lay down so I can once again answer the bait bouncers’ questions.  "It’s fourteen feet long",  "Yes you can catch steelhead on flies", etc. etc. etc.

Response:

There is a very good book on speycasting by Hugh Falkus, published by Excellent Press. I think Kaufmann’s have it. The windcutter lines work very well, and I have one, but the major secret of spey casting is having a rod which is built for the task. I learnt to spey cast before I learnt how to do an overhead cast, so I am not bad at putting a line out, and twenty years experience says that you need a slow actioned rod to spey cast properly. Greenheart was popular for this very reason, and many bamboo rods were good, but the only really good spey casting rods I know of are in the Hardy range (Hardy Speycasters). You can get around the problem, if you have a stiffer rod, by using a sink tip line. This loads the rod more, and produces the curve that you need to form a proper spey loop. Andrew The History of Fly Fishing http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher. Does this video deal only with classic double taper line spey casting or the extended weight forward "windcutter" or "Launcher" lines with which you shoot a lot of running line on each cast?  Most folks "south of the border" are going to be using the more modern line systems…  Jim Vincent has decent video for those types of lines, although he does seem to have a hard time with a left handed single spey.  I’m just waiting for the rivers to clear and the sea to lay down so I can once again answer the bait bouncers’ questions.  "It’s fourteen feet long",  "Yes you can catch steelhead on flies", etc. etc. etc.

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Question:

The "mandrel" is made of steel with multiple tapers on it.  The tapers on the mandrels are used to arrive at the ID.  The ID in combination with the graphite thickness drives the OD which, in combination with the graphite modulus, give the black its action.  Many amndrels today have upwards of six taper changes on the tip. Dwight Talon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Response:

In answer to your question, yes mandrels are tapered steel rods which do to some degree determine the charistics of the rod by determining the degree of taper.  After a particular mandrel is chosen,dependant on the type of rod, a piece of resin impregnated graphite cloth is cut according to a pattern ( either compound or progressive taper ) and wraped very tightly around the mandrel under extreme pressure to cause the resin to bond and hold the cloth together and then the rod and mandrel are suspended tip down in an oven where they are subjected to extreme heat and pressure. Then the rods are removed and seperated from the mandrels and sanded, painted, and /or clear coated.  

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info – Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form). The graphite material is wrapped around the mandrel and then they are both put into an oven for a heat cured. The mandrel is then withdrawn from the blank and reused, over and over. Unless you want to become a manufacturer of rod blanks, knowledge of mandrel shape is of little importance to an average custom rod builder (rod wrapper), except providing one of many needed bits of knowledge about a blank’s expected action. I’d expect the mandrel’s shape would be a closely-held trade secret of the mfg. company. Don Burns

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Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?  

Hi Mark, Graphite comes as a cloth which is layed out on a table and cut to a pattern.  This is simply done placing a pattern over the cloth and then cutting the graphite cloth with a box knife (razor).  How the pattern is shaped will determine the wall thickness of the blank.  Graphite cut into a pattern is called a flag. The flags are then taken to the rolling machine.   Inside the rolling machine has been placed the correct mandrel for the section of the rod being manufactured.  Seperate mandrels are used for each piece of the rod.  The mandrel is a tapered steel rod that determines the inside diameter of the blank and the shape of the blank.  The combination of the cut of the pattern of the flag and the tapered shape of the mandrel determines the "taper" of the blank. A small heat iron is rubbed along the edge of the flag which makes it tacky and the tacky edge is slipped into the machine next to the mandrel. The tacky part of the flag adheres to the mandrel and th machine then rolls the graphite flag around the mandrel.  Heat shrink tape is then wrapped around the outside of the graphite and the mandrel with the shrink wrapped is removed from the rolling machine and hung up inside a walk-in oven.  The blank is then baked.  The heat activates the epoxies and resins in the graphite flag and the heat shrink tape compresses squeezing the graphite onto the  mandrel. When the gaphite is done cooking, it is removed from the oven and the blank is pulled off of the mandrel and the mandrel is used to make another rod.  The heat shrink tape leaves the ridges in the graphite that you see in many rods and the blank is finished at this point.  If the rod uses an external or internal ferrule (as opposed to the integral ferrule which is actually designed into the mandrel), it is attached at this point. Another step may ensue for cosmetic reasons and that is sanding off the ridges (scars from the heat shrink tape) and then coating the blank with an epoxy or varnish.  This last step is what allows rods to be made in different colors and have a smooth shiny surface instead of the dark gray color of the graphite itself. After the blank is constructed the rod is sypically splined and finished with guides, handle, reel seat, etc. This process commonly called rolling a rod.                          Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form). The graphite material is wrapped around the mandrel and then they are both put into an oven for a heat cured. The mandrel is then withdrawn from the blank and reused, over and over. Unless you want to become a manufacturer of rod blanks, knowledge of mandrel shape is of little importance to an average custom rod builder (rod wrapper), except providing one of many needed bits of knowledge about a blank’s expected action. I’d expect the mandrel’s shape would be a closely-held trade secret of the mfg. company. Don Burns

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of? Thanks for the info – Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form).

Barbless Mandrel ?   ;0 TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Response:

Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?

Stainless Steel Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK"

Response:

Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Response:

Question:

Quick suggestions needed!   I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores. Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which magazine would you suggest?                                                - Ken –

Response:

I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores.

Flyfisherman has been aroung a long time. It has become extremely commercialized and retail oriented over the years (or I have gotten more cynical about the business end of this "hobby") but may be good reading for anyone new to the sport. Another Mag with a provocative conservation slant (and equally commercial) is Fly Rod and Reel.  This would be a good choice for the fishing activist. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice. It too has some hard hitting consevation type articles and a orientation towards the West Coast Fisheries.  If your friend is a fly tyer the "American Angler"  (formerly The American Fly Tyer") might be a worth considering.  All in all, I wouldn’t consider one a clear cut winner over the other, just they are all different. Good Luck on your selection Mark Powers Boston

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: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I am acquainted with "Flyfisherman", "Flyfishing" and "The River Journal" I thoroughly enjoy Flyfisherman. It is an excellent magazine, very well done, with articles for the beginner (like myself) and the advanced fly fisherperson. It covers trout, salmon and salt water. Not much on other species as I remember. It has a very nice mix of articles on technique, fly tying and where to go. I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this. Both Flyfishing and The River Journal are done by Frank Amato publications. The River Journal, compared to Flyfishing, is very high quality. It is published four times per year. Each issue is written by a single author, and is devoted to a single river. It describes in some detail what the river is like, access, the fishing, the area around the river. It gives quite a good feel for what to expect when you actually go there. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products      Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                       FAX:    612-635-3899            |

Response:

        I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.         As for lists – it has long been established practice for magazines to sell lists of their subscribers’ names and addresses (I think the going rate nowadays is about 8 cents per name).  They also buy their competition’s lists (finding new subscribers is difficult!).  If you’re starting a new business, it is one way to inexpensively target a niche market).  I’m not sure anything can be done about it from the recipient’s end – stop subscribing?  Stop buying?  But I do like the idea of changing your name slightly each time.  Oh, and I NEVER give out demographic information (except to the IRS). Cheers, – Jeff

Response:

   I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.

Junk mail is a part of our culture.  Like it or not! I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all. George

Response:

[omissions] I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all.

I wouldn’t like to suggest you folks are river-fixated or anything, but the term is "affluent." "Effluent" is "to flow out" or "something that flows out," as an outflowing branch of a main stream, or waste material, as smoke or sewage. "Affluent" also means "to flow abundantly," but has the additional meaning of "abundance of property." — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

Response:

I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George

Well very interesting.  I checked my list of everyone who sent in a request and non of you folks are on my list.   So god knows what happened to the names you sent to whomever.   Anyway if any of you want a free newsletter.  Send in you name and address for postal delivery.  That the only way we can send it out to you.   Some of the sponsors want to send free samples so can’t do it electronically.  It would be like Pizza Hut faxing you your pizza.  :-)  The technology is just not here yet.   For be it from me to turn down a box of hooks or what every. Later, George,

Response:

…. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice.

Another interesting publication is "California Fly Fisher."  Although the editorial slant is California fishing and fisheries, it also has a number of general interest articles, and the writing so far has consistantly been of high quality.  If interested, you might give them a call at 415-284-0313.  I don’t know if they send out sample copies, but its worth a try. Cheers, – Jeff

Response:

Make no mistake, folks: Mailing lists are hot items out there. In the course of starting up 8-Wt Journal, obviously we had to compile a mailing list (especially after offering free sample issues through the net here). I’ve got about ten years in the publishing business behind me, but even I was surprised at how, when I contacted other flyfishing publications regarding reviews, space ads and so forth, at how most wanted copies of our list. Having been subjected to mail list abuse myself in the past, we declined all offers (and intend to continue this practice). But for many operators of all stripes–from tackle and fly shops who just have a local mailing list to big-name equipment makers, selling mail/customer lists is considered just one more revenue enhancer. JL 8-Wt Editor

Response:

Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

Yeah, all at the same time from American Angler, Flyfisherman, and Fly Rod & Reel.  I’m on a number of lists, though, since I have recently bought stuff from Orvis, The Bass Pond, and Cabela’s.   Just a consumer tip:  I subscribed to American Angler this past year for about 15 bucks.  I found it to be excellent especially for tying tips. Then they wanted me to renew for 20 bucks, but I thought I could do better so I ignored their repeated pleas and let the subscription run out.  Sure enough, on ESPN Outdoors Saturday morning I saw a toll-free number to subscribe to AA for 15 bucks…BUT before I got around to calling, I got all these freebie notices, including one from AA!  So I’ll get a free issue, plus a low rate for the other 5 issues.  With the money I saved, I’m going to buy all of the Paradise Valley spring creeks…  ;) Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

Response:

My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman. I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.

Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters.  Before I digress, because I plan to, "American Angler" is also a very good magazine for flyfishing.  For those that tie their own flies I would recommend it highly over Flyfisherman.  This topic has come up many times before and I’ve always highly recommended "California FlyFisher".  Everytime I do I get email asking for the subscription address, so here it is: California FlyFisher PO Box 40429 San Francisco, CA 94140 (415) 284-0313 Back to my digression.  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

Response:

…deleted material…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. …deleted material…. ….  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

I also recently received all "Free trial subscription" offers from the above three fly fishing publications. (less the California one).  And I also sent my address in on the catalog/free issue offer on the list… hmmmm…… Provo, Utah

Response:

: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this.

I bought the latest issue of Flyfishing because, frankly, it had a fish on the cover. I was extremely disappointed with the content. I found it to be flagrantly self-promoting (of Frank Amato publications), spelling and grammar errors galore, and the ad for "The Miracle of the Eucharist" or whatever in the midst of ad copy for fishing literature annoyingly incongruent. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.

I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                  FAX:    612-635-3899            |

– Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful. Sorry to disagree but there are lots of folks (none tyros) who would classify Putah Creek a trophy fishery. Its a tailwater stream that holds many fish, many large, few  pushovers. I don’t know if that qualifies as a "trophy" fishery but it ain’t a muddy, put-and-take slough.

Last I heard, Putah was officially classified as a "Trophy Trout Stream" by the state of California.  This qualifies it for special environmental protection, and special fishing regs.  They stock "put and take" rainbows down in the Solano Lake end, and there is a resident population of browns and land locked steelhead living from the head of lake Solano to the dam at lake Berryessa.  I’ve never gotten one of the giants, but I’ve seen several trout over 25" there in the water.         Putah is an interesting creek.  From Berryessa to Solano it is a great peice of water.  Cold water, good oxygenation, nice holes large bouldered bottom providing plenty of pocket water.  Lake Solano is a big evaporation pond.  There is a dam at the lower end of the lake, and during the summer, in dry years, there is no flow from it.  I’ve found the stream below Solano bone dry in some summers.  In a wet year, the creek flows on and eventually spreads out and sinks into the ground in the middle of the Sacramento cosway.  When you drive from Davis to Sac across the cosway, look to your right across the rice fields.  There is a peculiar patch of trees and scrub.  That is the termination point of Putah creek!         It’s been a while since I lived in Cali, but Putah was my training ground.  Don’t badmouth it just because your not competent enough to catch any of the multitude of giant (but extremely selective) trout that live there. Enjoy this gift of nature and preserve it for future generations. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful.

Response:

writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful.

Sorry to disagree but there are lots of folks (none tyros) who would classify Putah Creek a trophy fishery. Its a tailwater stream that holds many fish, many large, few  pushovers. I don’t know if that qualifies as a "trophy" fishery but it ain’t a muddy, put-and-take slough.

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I hear Putah creek is a trophy trout stream.  I fished it about 1 month ago with some success on 18-20 prince nymphs.  I saw no fish over 8". Steam side brush made casting near impossible.  There were few pockets from which to cast from.  Wading was difficult due to the changing deapth of water and varying stream flows throughout the length of the creek starting just outside of Winters.  Does anyone know how and where to fish this water?

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