Question:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband.

In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

In my case I paid for the setting and we used a stone she had (grandmothers, perhaps? I don’t recall and it doesn’t matter). I didn’t get the setting back; she never offered and I never asked because I didn’t want it. The setting was indeed a gift from me to her so I feel I have no claims on it. I would not have accepted it if she had offered it to me. My ring was a custom piece of jewelry we picked out together, though I paid for it so technically it wasn’t a gift from her. I gave it back to her without thinking twice about it. The fewer things I have in my life that remind me of her the better.

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..

EVERYTHING comes from da man, silly girl!    (If you don’t believe me, ask Andre or Ronnie44dd.   Whattas a matter with you, anyway)?    :-)

Response:

Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

If he is this bad, you can’t leave your children to his care, I know it is tempting to get revenge on him but think of your children, they will suffer more if you went to prison.  Get out, and get your children out.  There are organisations for abused wives, get one on your side and have them help you work this out. Mandy

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!! He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

The real abuse here is the abuse that you did to yourself by staying so long.  I hope you can learn to love yourself as much as you deserve. bogey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. – It may be a good idea to buy a cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the corner and when they come to the house, then go to the house. Tell the police you need them to watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the loan amount. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send them a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on the mortgage and ruin your credit. The Car ======= If you each have a car, take the one that you use the most. If you have one car between you, the working spouse will generally get the car. Should you buy a new one? Generally, no, unless you just purchased a brand new car in the past year. Calculate the net worth of the car will help you. Net worth=Value of the car (get it from Kelly Blue Book on the web) – any loan outstanding. Here’s an example. Car A: bought 2 years ago, valued at $15,000, loan left is $13,000, so net worth is $2000. Basically, you have $13,000 in loans to pay off. If you can’t afford it, get a used car worth less than $13,000, say around $7000. Try to make small payments. This will cause you to pay more interest over the life of the loan, but you really need the cash right now. Car B: bought 5 years ago, valued at $5000, no loan outstanding. Net worth is $5000. This is the best deal, since you have no car payment in this case. Car C: new car bought last year, valued at $24,000, loan left: $25,000, net worth=-$1000. Even though this has a net worth, you still have $25,000 left in loans to pay. This is a bad deal because if you sell the car you will still have to pay $1000 to cover the loan and you will not get any money back because it has a negative net worth. Your best bet is to get a $7000 car, pay the extra $1000. Insurance for the used car will be less than for the new car anyway. What will make you look good to the judge: – If you are fair to the other spouse. (Divide assets equally. Don’t take their favorite baseball card collection just to be mean.) – If you don’t hit them, threaten them or damage their property. – If you don’t show bizarre behavior (like damaging the other’s property) – If you keep the spouse informed, like when you cancel the credit cards. – Getting the kids out of a violent home. (You must have PROOF of this violence as a recording, or police report.) What will make you look bad: – Not going to counseling when the spouse does. – Being unfair. – Being angry in court. – If you have a serious illness, like cancer, it will really reduce your chances to get the kids. – If you have a serious illness, like depression, which is not being treated, you will have a lesser chance to get the kids. – Doing drugs. – Having a police record. – Being known as the "one who’s always screaming" by the neighbors. – Having boy/girlfriends before the divorce is final. – Trying to hide assets from the spouse. – Having an affair during the marriage. (Shows lack of commitment.) – Not being real involved with the kids. – If you don’t have a job. – If you have trouble holding a job. Abuse claims Filing a false abuse claim is now illegal in some states, and it is even enforced sometimes. Find out the status of false abuse claims, perhaps by calling the police department. — "Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST

ME!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Response:

"DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

IF your children want to stay in the house regardless of the fact that he is mean to you then something is wrong. IF you want to stay in the house regardless of what HE is doing to YOU then there is something VERY WRONG!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these! SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

Huh?  How can you even think this about the man you just previously described? I think *you* would be abusive by letting him near your kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe he is abusing his children by not being here

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

Response:

I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!!  He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

I can not understand why you take all that shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Once again, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "abuse": Main Entry: abuse      Pronunciation: &-’by

Question:

In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be.

"the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved? George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

"the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved?

Hold on, Forty should be here momentarily… Kevin

Response:

In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be. "the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved?

Oh fer cryin’ out loud George, why don’t you tip your nymph with a piece of corn while you’re at it?

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

That is a red herring.  Is the dynamite weighted or unweighted?

Response:

If it were me Danl, the answer is no.  You will catch fish if you weight your nymphs but what will you use, lead?  Not necessary.  You can use Zinc or copper if you want but there is a downside.  Your nymphs won’t flow along with the current drag free.  This is where 99% of all nymph fishermen mess up.  Trout are selective under water just as much as they are when coming to dry flies.  Drag free drifts is paramount if you’re going to be a savvy and serious nymph fisherman.  It’s difficult enough as it is and those who need to use bobbers while fly fishing is testimony to that fact.   Lead in a size #22 nymph isn’t going to do you any more good than weight inside a size 14 nymph or wet fly.  What you want to always maintain is a natural drift without lead and use nymphs as sparsely dressed as possible.  This is one of the reasons I make my own hand tied leaders because I would rather have weight on the knots above the main tippet and I use as much as is necessary to get the knot where the tippet is attached to the taper section, not the nymph itself.  I use a minimum of 24 inches of nymphing tippet material between the fly and the first knot.  If the weight (I use soft copper wire or zinc) for weight, if needed) and I use Xink on all my nymphs which will put my nymphs right along the same level as my tippet will be.  If your nymph is tumbling and turning and flowing along as naturally as possible, the amount of takes you’re going to get will triple compared to anyone who uses weight dragging nymphs. There is a zone of a foot or less right on the bottom of all rivers that is current free.  This is where resting fish lay as they watch food go drifting by.  As a dry fly rising fish will rise out of the current to take a fly on the surface, nymphing fish often rise from the very bottom to take a nymph passing by in the current.  You do not want your nymph ticking along the bottom as most profess you should be doing.  You want only the first weighted knot to be ticking along the bottom (every once in a while) and not the hook.  The fish that are caught with weighted nymphs are mostly force fed.  What I mean by this is the angler happens to be lucky enough to hit the fish almost right in the face.   I want to catch trout that are actively feeding on nymphs flowing along with the current because these are the fish that will swing left or right a foot or two.  There are feeding stations under water just as there are on the surface for dry fly fishermen. There is a lot more to this than what I have time to write here now, but to answer your question, you don’t need weighted flies as much as you do need more "Drag Free" drifts. George Gehrke Nymphomaniac Fly Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Response:

I generally use weighted nymphs, but I prefer to use bead-heads, when practical, to weight them. Bead-head pheasnat tail nymphs are one of my most productive flies.

Mostly because of the "Apex Flash" on the round globe of the bead, not because of the extra weight which is mostly mute in its ability to influence a fishes’ attention Tim. George Gehrke Nymph maniac Fly Fisherman

Response:

I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. — Ken Fortenberry

Okay?!  So why do you say and feel like this about nymph fishing Ken?   George Gehrke "interested"

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. That is a red herring.  Is the dynamite weighted or unweighted?

that, will you please? jesus! my sides hurt . . .

Response:

Seems to me that it really depends on the water you’re fishing. Clearly, an unweighted nymph casts better and makes more elegant presentations,  and a heavy nymph is pretty ugly in the air, but if the water is fast and deep it’s hard to get an unweighted fly down near the bottom. I suppose one solution would be to use a sinking line, but in the small streams that I usually fish I’ve never been able to see much value in using it. And I don’t like having to carry a floating line for dries and a sinking line for nymphs. In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

personally, i like fucking nymphs…… but what the hell ken, whatever floats yer boat <g –waldo

Response:

I like to use a heavily weighted Copper John along with an unweighted nymph, or maybe two. The Copper John takes the place of splitshot, but has fish-catching capability. I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

personally, i like fucking nymphs…… but what the hell ken, whatever floats yer boat <g

Past tense, right Walt ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. personally, i like fucking nymphs……

Weighted or unweighted?

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote… I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

Oh you dry fly snob! Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

well, if there is really nothing doing on dries, and I can’t spark some action with soft-hackles, sure, I have some weighted nymphs in my boxes. Mostly I’ll go with bead-heads or in some places weighted stone-fly nymphs. I don’t much like casting heavy flies, nor flies with split-shot, but I’ll do what it takes.  I tend to fish places where I can get by just fine without resorting to heavy stuff. Eugene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I seldom weight nymphs and I just don’t like the way beadheads look. (I know they catch fish but……) I prefer weight on the leader to weight on the fly in most situations. The only nymphs that I consistant tie with weight are large stoneflies. Willi

Response:

I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that?

I think the unweighted fly "swims" better, more naturally, if it’s on the bottom.  The weighted fly serves the same function as a split shot, but lets the other fly drift more or less freely. JR

Response:

I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that?

I put the weighted fly on top with the unweighted fly on the bottom (point). Just seems to be a logical arrangement, and I have had  success using it. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

I seldom weight nymphs and I just don’t like the way beadheads look. (I know they catch fish but……) I prefer weight on the leader to weight on the fly in most situations. The only nymphs that I consistant tie with weight are large stoneflies. Willi

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

I would certainly prefer to use dries all the time, but western tailwaters generally require small(sz 20-26) midge larva patterns.  Over the past few years I would guess that I use nymphs nearly 85% of the time.  This includes dropping a nymph from a dry or using a two nymph rig.     Regarding the use of weighed nymphs.  I have started to stay away from weighted nymphs.  I prefer to use weight directly on the tippet, generally 12 to 18 inches above the point fly.  A tailwater guide in Colorado recently pointed out how weighted nymphs simply don’t float naturally through the water column and he always uses unweighted nymphs.   He also pointed out how BH patterns generally don’t look realistic and more often than not many BH(bead heads) are too big for the hook size.   Especially when dealing with sz 24 midge patterns! For weight, I use that green coated stuff from England.  Can’t think of the name right now…. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

    I do indeed tie weighted nymphs.  I use a red thread head on my weighted ones to indicate the difference from non-weighted.  I find arsenic-core lead solder to be a good weighting material as I don’t even have to use a priest, not that I ever would.  I do like the feel of those apache or golden trout flopping around in the creel, so some times I use the unweighted flies with the black-thread or beadheads.     By the way, for all those folk looking for a replacement for Gink, got an old transformer sitting out in the back yard and the liquid in that is great.  Keeps a fly floating forever.  I can ship a quart or two to anyone that needs it.  Might not want to hold your floatant bottle in your teeth, though.     Oh, by the way, for all you pissy C&R folks, I do practice it.  I got a latch on the bottom of the creel that lets me empty that sucker real quick if I see a ranger.  All he’ll find in there is a digital camera and an invite to the Elks Club Fly Tie. Danl,    I’ve gotten away from lead wire sinking nymphs and have found the ease of use of bead heads.  If I need to sink a nymph without a bead, I have found that the split-shot works great. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Keeps the ball rolling anyway. The only weight I’ll add to a PT is a copper beadhead,  a small one (3/32" for #14, 5/64" for #16, nothing on smaller sizes).  I like a slim silhouette on PTs and think wrapping weight on the shank ruins that.   The flies I most often weight (other than winter steelhead flies) are woolly buggers.  I’ll also weight Prince and stonefly nymphs, which I frequently fish together with a smaller unweighted fly on a dropper. JR

Response:

8< . So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

yes. –waldo

Response:

I generally use weighted nymphs, but I prefer to use bead-heads, when practical, to weight them. Bead-head pheasnat tail nymphs are one of my most productive flies. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Response:

Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Response:

Question:

I mean yes of course there are words in Cosmo. <ahem! Sorry, but I don’t believe you.  I’m going to the bathroom and check…. Tie string to the kitchen handle first just incase you get lost or your eyesight fails.

No worries, I have a cane and a map.  :)

Response:

Uh, oh! he’s read Cosmo.  the jig’s up, gals!

Read???  You mean there’s words in that?

Response:

he’s read Cosmo.  the jig’s up, gals! Read???  You mean there’s words in that? Is there??? I mean yes of course there are words in Cosmo. <ahem!

Sorry, but I don’t believe you.  I’m going to the bathroom and check….

Response:

She appears squeaky clean and innocent, and yet you and I know it’s all a front. That girl is trouble. Oh, no– you’ve seen through my diabolically clever disguise! I’ve got your number…I know what you apparently innocent women are like. I don’t fall for that sweetness and light, heart and flowers routine. I’m a man of the world, I’ve seen naughty pictures in clothing catalogues and read Cosmopolitan.

Uh, oh! he’s read Cosmo.  the jig’s up, gals! Erminia

Response:

Oh, I love twister. When I was young I played it very often. The last time I played it with my wife, she got pregnant.

from playing twister? Daniel — Teilhard

– Computers in the future may weight no more than 1.5 tons.     -Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949

Response:

I also want to play, you know?

 hi teilhard, my my aren’t you lookin’ mighty fine this morning! jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

I also want to play, you know? It’s called ‘Fishing for Alan’ I swear it was Philippa’s fault. She appears squeaky clean and innocent, and yet you and I know it’s all a front. That girl is trouble.

*laughing this has been my sneaking suspicion all along.  same with mary beth.  That wholesome good natured witty thing is just a trick…said the spider to the fly… (but whatta way to go!) jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (hi Philippa

Response:

I also want to play, you know? It’s called ‘Fishing for Alan’

I swear it was Philippa’s fault. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

I also want to play, you know? I have twister, Mary Beth

Oh, I love twister. When I was young I played it very often. The last time I played it with my wife, she got pregnant. Oh, I love twister. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

I also want to play, you know? — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

I also want to play, you know?

I have twister, Mary Beth

Response:

Will you talk to me now??????? Nope.

If I told you that I never meant to piss you off, would you talk to me? Remember, life shouldn’t have to be like credit report, huh? One week, one day, 5 hours, 39 minutes and 35 seconds. 205 cigarettes not smoked, saving $31.91. Life saved: 17 hours, 5 minutes. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

Will you talk to me now???????

Nope. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Not if you keep testing me. Bruce.

Response:

Will you talk to me now???????

Not if you keep testing me. Bruce.

Response:

Will you talk to me now??????? Not if you keep testing me.

I already tested you and you passed with honours. I haven’t seen much people as positive as you, man, seriously. So, I won’t keep testing you, will you talk to me now? One week, one day, 5 hours, 0 minutes and 37 seconds. 205 cigarettes not smoked, saving $31.81. Life saved: 17 hours, 5 minutes. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

i  would have before so why not now, i just never saw you before today. Oh, thanks. How is your toe? it kinda hurts, i dropped a glass on it.

Ouch!! You must be careful with the tableware!! I mean, do not go around breaking glasses, huh?? LOL. No, seriously, that must hurt quite a bit. Hope you didn’t cut, did you? Now, what is it that kicks up blood circulation? Hot water or warm water? I would go for warm water, feels nicer. Do you have someone to rub your toe? I’d be glad to do it, but I am far away. Anyway, hope it doesn’t hurt much anymore. not that you;re talking to me. Oh, yes, I was, definitely. yeah right! :p

Way, of course! – One week, one day, 4 hours, 40 minutes and 29 seconds. 204 cigarettes not smoked, saving $31.75. Life saved: 17 hours, 0 minutes. – Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

fuck … ignore me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i  would have before so why not now, i just never saw you before today. Oh, thanks. How is your toe? it kinda hurts, i dropped a glass on it. not that you;re talking to me. Oh, yes, I was, definitely. yeah right! :p One week, one day, 2 hours, 53 minutes and 44 seconds. 203 cigarettes not smoked, saving $31.47. Life saved: 16 hours, 55 minutes.

Response:

Will you talk to me now??????? — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

i  would have before so why not now, i just never saw you before today.

Oh, thanks. How is your toe? not that you;re talking to me.

Oh, yes, I was, definitely. One week, one day, 2 hours, 53 minutes and 44 seconds. 203 cigarettes not smoked, saving $31.47. Life saved: 16 hours, 55 minutes. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

Response:

Question:

Http://www.miralex.com Price:                  Miralex Cream, 4 oz $120.00 US

Good grief!  And I just bought a 3.5-ounce tub of coal tar for US$10.77! – Dave W.

Response:

For $120.00 per 4 oz this stuff better come with company stock too

Response:

Not to mention my personal aide to apply it too LOLLOLOL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For $120.00 per 4 oz this stuff better come with company stock too

Response:

David, David,   did someone do something terrible to you once.  Very negative.

I’m only negative about unproven therapies which have advertising that is purposefully vague about the active ingredients.  The term ’snake oil’ comes to mind. But, maybe you have some points there.  Are you sure it looks like poison ivy?

No, but that’s why I prefaced my remark with "I’m no botanist." And hemlock might not be bad, after all the poison in a bee sting is supposed to help "cure" arthritis.

Is it arthritis now?  Last I heard of bee sting therapy it was for MS.  And shortly after going to an MS bee sting fundraiser, I read that a controlled study had been done which said the stings didn’t do a thing except send some people into shock.  Maybe someone. okay maybe me should ask the miralex people what is in the stuff using the allergy thing a reason for asking. good idea David.  I’ll let you know what happens.

You shouldn’t need a reason.  If they’re at all ethical, they’ll tell you.  Don’t you have containers of the stuff? Aren’t the ingredients right on the labels?!?! – Dave W.

Response:

I went to the website for this product,and let me tell you it AINT CHEAP,but then again,compared to some meds we’ve tried I suppose its Ok If yoy want to know more about it go here Http://www.miralex.com Heres the ingred:Doesnt really say,just says Plant substances Price:                  Miralex Cream, 4 oz $120.00 US                  Miralex Cream, 1/2 oz $29.99 US                  Miralex Shampoo, 4 oz $9.95 US                                                               * – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff. Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

Response:

… The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238.   What do you think?  Let me know.

I’m no botanist, but why was my first reaction to the plant pictured on the web site’s home page "hey, that’s poison ivy!"? Anyway, since you actually have some of this stuff, what is listed on the containers as ingredients?  I couldn’t find anything but the vague "natural plant substance" remarks on the web site.  People have allergies and other conditions that preclude them from using certain substances, and should be able to find out prior to losing money to "shipping and handling charges" that aren’t covered in money-back guarantees. Not only that, but everything in hemlock is a "natural plant substance," but you won’t find me using it to clear my psoriasis. And Miralex has got to have the *worst* testimonials section I’ve ever seen.  They don’t even try to make them sound more real and personal by putting initials and towns afterwards (for example, "This is great!" – S.D. from Walla Walla, WA), not that doing so makes testimonials any more valid of a "proof" that the stuff works.  And this one in particular sounds like they took their own marketing slogans and put them inside double-quotes:  ["The positive effects of Miralex were visible within 48 hours of the initial use. 90% of all lesions had disappeared within 7 days with only one recurrence from that group. Its lack of smell and color makes it less embarrassing to use." Thank you !!!]  I find it interesting the ‘thank you’ part didn’t make it inside the quotes, too. – Dave W.

Response:

The cream costs 29.95 US$  for a 1/2 oz jar and 120 US$ (i think) for a 4 oz jar.  The pamphlet is at home and I am leaving work to go to a fly fishing meeting, so thought I would message you now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff. Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

Response:

David, David,   did someone do something terrible to you once.  Very negative.  But, maybe you have some points there.  Are you sure it looks like poison ivy?  And hemlock might not be bad, after all the poison in a bee sting is supposed to help "cure" arthritis.   Maybe someone. okay maybe me should ask the miralex people what is in the stuff using the allergy thing a reason for asking. good idea David.  I’ll let you know what happens. Remember, "positive waves man, positive waves."  see ya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238. What do you think?  Let me know. pictured on the web site’s home page "hey, that’s poison ivy!"? listed on the containers as ingredients?  I couldn’t find

"natural plant substance" remarks on  People have allergies and other conditions that preclude them from using certain substances,

 but everything in hemlock is a "natural plant substance," but you won’t find me using it to clear my psoriasis.

Dave W.

Response:

I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff.  

Mark, could you post pricing, size availability and ingredients? Thanks.

Response:

I first posted you guys about three weeks ago (my first post) about miralex cream and some other stuff.  Well, I was visiting a doctor, not a derm (don’t go to them anymore) and he noticed my p.  He said his brother in law had p and used this miralex cream and it cleared it up. Said he had a sample somewhere but could not find it.  He gave me some literature on it and said he would look for the sample. That it when I posted you.  About a week later he called and said he had found the sample.  I picked it up and started using it.  That was one week ago.  So far very good results.  Some of the smaller spots have disappeared. The largest area  extended from my ankle to my knee, completly encircled my leg.  It had several large scaly areas and the rest was red (as you all know) Well, after one week, no scales, no red. My leg has returned to white. Eureka!  The sample was a one ounce jar ( if you can call that small a sample a jar).  In the Vancouver Sun last week there was an add giving away free 1/2 ounce samples.  I immediately ordered one and had two friends order some for me also.  Naughty me!.  So, I how have 21/2 ounces of the stuff, except what I have used to date.  Also the patches on my elbows are gone. and the stubborn ones on my knuckles are going(three down and two to go)  The literature claims that the product is made from a natural plant substance.  I beleive it is a Canadian Doctor in Vancouver that is selling the stuff. Could be wrong though. (wouldn’t be the first time). Anyway, if you want more information they are on the net at www.miralex.com or toll free at 1-888-215-6449 toll free from the USA or Canada and if you are from outside North America call 1-604-731-7238.   What do you think?  Let me know.  I will keep you posted (I’ll try for weekly) on how the treatment is going.  Can’t wait for summer. By the way, I have been reading about you guys that are emabarressed to go outside with your p.  That used to bother me to, it still does, but about 10 years ago, I said "the hell with it".  I wear shorts and t-shirts all summer, go to the beach in a bathing suit, and it fat guys like me can wear a bathing suit, then you should not be concerned about your P.  Anyway, get over the embarrassment and just do it.  The extra sunshine and fresh air can only help your P anyway. So Long for now and  Keep your stick on the ice. Bye

Response:

Question:

I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

Jeff, You can go to this page and take your choice: http://www.oppub.com/bin/html I recommend the following: Bare Lake Resort Charles & Jean Forrest/Phil & Betty Teichgrab Box 1248 Kamloops ,BC  V2C 6H3 Tel: 250-319-5511; mesg.604-858-3678  Fax: 604-858-8008 High Country Douglas Lake Ranch Resort http://www.douglaslake.com/ Carlo Elstak General Delivery Douglas Lake ,BC  V0E 1S0 Tel: 250-371-7206/250-350-3344/1-800-663-4838  Fax: 250-350-3336 High Country Northern Woodsman Lodge http://www.northernwoodsman.com/ Les and Michelle Allen P.O. Box 26025 Westbank, B.C., Canada V4T 2G3 Phone/Fax: (250) 769-7642 Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com take off the 1 for E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

I could recommend a couple, but you really need to contact Dick McMaster, the director of the BC Fishing Resorts and Outfitters Association at (250) 828-1553. Or you can drop them a letter at P.O. box 3301, Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada, V2C 6B9 This guy is a wealth of knowledge and it’s his job to help people just like you, looking for a lodge. Good Luck. And please tell him Bill Luscombe told you to call him. Thanks. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

Question:

I am new to the San Diego area and am looking for nearby fisheries.  Where can I find trout without driving for hours.  Any fly fishing streams? Thanks for the help.

Response:

I am new to the San Diego area and am looking for nearby fisheries.  Where can I find trout without driving for hours.  Any fly fishing streams? Thanks for the help.

I do not know of any local fisheries, and NO local fly fishing streams.  Some people fly fish at cuyamaca and Murray, but I don’t know how well those lakes work.   Good luck Dave

Response:

Try the surf for corvina.  I no they aren’t trout — but they are close and a challenge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the San Diego area and am looking for nearby fisheries.  Where can I find trout without driving for hours.  Any fly fishing streams? Thanks for the help. I do not know of any local fisheries, and NO local fly fishing streams.  Some people fly fish at cuyamaca and Murray, but I don’t know how well those lakes work.   Good luck Dave

Response:

Contact San Diego Fly Fishers org c/o Strouds Tackle, Morena Blvd, San Diego CA for info on the group and its meetings (7 pm first Monday ea month).  Some SDFF members (not me) speak of  wild trout streams in the county that have 11"-12" trout.  SDFF also stocks county streams with hatchery trout each year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the surf for corvina.  I no they aren’t trout — but they are close and a challenge. I am new to the San Diego area and am looking for nearby fisheries.  Where can I find trout without driving for hours.  Any fly fishing streams? Thanks for the help. I do not know of any local fisheries, and NO local fly fishing streams.  Some people fly fish at cuyamaca and Murray, but I don’t know how well those lakes work.   Good luck Dave

Response:

Lake Poway has trout.. haven’t tried ‘em, but I guess I should — Bob Dobson RAD Solutions www.radsolutions.com

Response:

Question:

Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,…

Just when I thought the group was getting a little dull…

Response:

Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,…

Response:

Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,… Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.sex.watersports,alt.sex.fetish.wet-and-messy

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ries.pictures.erotica.fetish.diapers,alt.binaries.erotica.fetish.wet-and-me ssy Xref: newsbf05.news.aol.com rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:59045 alt.sex.watersports:18881 alt.sex.fetish.wet-and-messy:21012 alt.sex.fetish.watersports:32381 alt.sex.anal:71431 alt.magazines.pornographic:16175 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.leather:14035 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.latex:20645 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.hair:22140 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.feet:45135 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.diapers:5545 alt.binaries.erotica.fetish.wet-and-messy:3599

Wow! The only thing missing is: alt.rec.fishing.tying.myself.in.a.knot.while.trying.to.cast

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Question:

I should have posted this a week ago, but was lazy. I fished Slate and Cedar Runs from 5/20-5/23.  Pine Creek had no action whatsoever — fish or fly-wise.  We had several decent (but still slow) days on Slate and Cedar.  Slate and Cedar had hatches of little yellow stoneflies everyday all day, a few Hendricksons early in the week, and then some grey caddises, March Browns, and especially Sulphurs (rotundas) later in the week.  Some big clusters of spinners in the evening, but no major spinner fall.  We had our best success, in descending order, with dry March Browns, dry little yellow stoneflies, Hendrickson, March Brown and sulphur emergers, and dry caddis patterns. The fishing was tough.  Even the old-timers were complaining — and bitterly so about Pine Creek, claiming it was the worst they’d seen in 30 years. The weather was fine.  The week before there was a half inch of snow; four days later it was 95 degrees.  But that week it was warm and mostly dry. I heard one story of a gutted Pine Creek fish with an empty stomach. The explanation was that the the streambed had been scoured by the floods and the hatches were shot.  Then I heard another story — a gutted Pine Creek fish with a stomach gorged with nymphs.  Both fish were caught by bait fisherman.  Having turned over a few rocks on the banks I can say that there are certainly nymphs in the water, although apparently the hatches have not been very impressive by local standards.  The few times I stopped at the river I saw few flies, littel bird activity and no surface feeding at all.  Water was still high as well.  Over the phone one of the guys at the tackle shop tried to sound encouraging to a propsective fisherman by metioning that a few chubs had been taken on dries. In sum, Slate and Cedar Runs were slow but worthwhile, though Pine Creek was dead. Genesee beer was excellent, as was Pabst and Schmitts — also Red Man. Oh, and if you want to go to a spooky bar, go to the Wagon Wheel in town of Camaal (sp?), just south of Slate Run.

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Pine Creek is excellent now:  24 fish evening on dries…sulphurs, grey foxes…only  a few more days to green and brown drake hatches!!!

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Pine Creek is excellent now:  24 fish evening on dries…sulphurs, grey foxes…only  a few more days to green and brown drake hatches!!!

Is this the same Pine Creek of the famous "Grand Canyon of the East?" If so, where do you fish in relation to the aforementioned "Grand Canyon?"

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Is this the same Pine Creek of the famous "Grand Canyon of the East?" If so, where do you fish in relation to the aforementioned "Grand Canyon?"

Yes, It is.  You can fish the Canyon itself; if you don’t mind hiking; canoeing it; or have a Mt. Bike and a tuff ass!  AVOID THE WEEKENDS!

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Question:

We have a TU group  going into Alaska this summer to flyfish. It’s expensive but the quality is sensational. The attached letter was sent to this year’s participants. If you have any interest please e-mail me. Copy of letter:

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If you send me an e-mail I will send you copy of my letter containing all the info on trip. Thanks!

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Question:

Would the guy that posted about the Saltwater flyfishing trip for rockfish in the kelp beds off of Santa Cruz please followup with a valid email address?  I tried responding via email but it bounced.  I’m interested in the Livermore Flyfishers group that was mentioned. — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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That’s a numeral one after my name. Kent McCammon Lightwave Systems Engineer Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Just another crash dummy on the information superhighway

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