Question:

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly. This topic in itself is a waste. tmc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you are are free with other people’

Response:

Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? "they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, …

    No one does.  That was my point. …but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize.

    You have no idea what I "probably realize" — you’re guessing based on two sentences — and even if you were correct, it really doesn’t do anything to make the point, since the original "most people…" statement is dubious.  But please, go on. At least among long-time and frequent contributors.

    Care to qualify it any further? Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP..

    You cracked the code!

Response:

Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? does it matter?

    Well if, for example, one fifth of one percent of the people in the conversation have a particular problem, how worked up should we expect the group to get about it?     As for people in other newsgroups with similar problems, my favorite was the guy on AOL who waged an endless argument about cross-posting. Apparently his wiz-bang software required him to download entire articles before he could see headers (or so he claimed,) and thereby be able to filter things out.  Thus he wanted people to stop posting about various topics on various groups because it was costing him too much money to download stuff he didn’t want to read.  I think he enjoyed arguing about it.

Response:

don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American.

Wow. Get your hand off the trigger. Being considerate of people in the world that exists (really it does) outside the US is hardly being anti-American. I realize its very UN-American, but thats another story. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

Why? What does it matter? Does Rico get to decide that if its less than x percent then screw them? This is really going to come as a surprise to some people, all of them Americans. There are..gasp…you dont say!!….actually places in America where people have to pay for access time! There are also people who, for various reasons, dont have good connections or fast connections AND have to pay for  access too!

Response:

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there?

You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

Response:

…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

If one leaves because of the cost of downloading back country topics, then you are better off backpacking than reading the usenet.  One certainly can’t afford that new goretex jacket. Lets be serious here.  If you can’t afford a few dollars to read some interersting topics (some more or less), then you have no reason to be backpacking.  Think about it!  Backpacking is NOT the least expensive hobby/sport.  Perhaps one needs to obtain a new hobby to make one happy. Unless you hike in blue jeans and a cotton shirt, the don’t be squaking. Oh yeah, if you aren’t smart enough to download the headers and topics, instead of full messages, then it is the law of Darwin. Geesh! tmc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? Geo.Cleveland

Response:

don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

does it matter?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

it’s evidently an  issue for some that comes up regularly in some other ng’s I subscribe to that have  posters from all over the place.( trim posts etc) Of course I have no hard evidence  ;-p penny

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.

   Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

    And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

Response:

Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

"they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize. At least among long-time and frequent contributors. Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP.. John Paul Minda Beckman Institute The University of Illinois 405 N. Mathews Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 333-2012 http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~minda

Response:

…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

Response:

…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. penny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

Response:

\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai. He has a gorgeous blonde girlfriend(ive never seen so many stares in my direction thanks to walking with her on several occasions), a nice ride and an even nicer selection of fly rods. Perhaps you are jealous of that? He is a positive, hopeful person  and people seem to gravitate to him. He, like I also have the glorious choices of fishing in a still unspoiled setting, which is something you don’t have Mike. Perhaps if someone in Europe had spoken up and made noise a long time ago the fishing and habitat wouldnt be so poor now, and the choices so few.

Response:

Musty Ass has spoken.

Response:

\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

I hardly ever use anything other than a parachute Adams, a Royal Wulff or a Yellow Humpy in sizes 14, 16 and 18. I’m a dry fly purist so I’ll defer to Wayno to give you the benefit of his experience with the nymphs of the Blue Ridge. — Ken Fortenberry- pun most definitely intended

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

I would buy 9  size 10 foam yellow humpies  and one size 24  gray midge.  As a beginner you will probably loose the humpies in the trees but at least you will be able to  see them when you hit the stream. I would get the midge to amaze my friends when they ask about flies and also to amaze yourself by realizing   that  advanced fishing is difficult. Guess I am at level two in fly fishing and hope this is the year I begin to catch a few fish. Indian Joe

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

    mr. fortenberry, in his characteristically humble and helpful fashion, has pointed you in the right direction with regard to dry flies, although i must say that after mid may, my preference for top water flies would be kaufmann’s "stimulators" in sizes 10 (hopper imitation), 14 and 16 (caddis/stonefly) and in yellow, lime, and royal colors.     i have never used a nymph in my life, so i can’t help you with such things. wayno (ok, ok, here’s the deal on the nymphs:  prince; red squirrel; size 10, 14.) and, for down home personal service, and even more expertise, contact walt winter at ezflyfish.com.  he is a fellow roffian, guide, and blower of smoke.

Response:

I’ve noticed that yellow seems to be favored in dry flies by fishermen in the Blue Ridge.  Yellow Humpies, yellow/orange stimulators, Harry Murray’s Mr. Rapidan (yellow wings and yellow mixed into the dubbing), Walt’s Yallahammer, etc.

        well, that’s certainly true for early may through early october.  but i have *always* done better from march through early may on adams or royal wulff patterns.  ernie shweibert (one of my dearest friend, have i ever told you the absolutely intriguing story of how we first met?) would call it a sulphur thang, i reckon. wayno

Response:

 ernie shweibert (one of my dearest friend, have i ever told you the absolutely intriguing story of how we first met?)

No, but if you don’t tell me every detail next time we meet, I’ll be angry.

Response:

Point 1: you have my sympathy. This hobby will soon turn into an obsession Point 2: You’ve received some great advice from some real experts. They know what they are talking about, hard as that may be to believe! (this is as of 7:30 p.m. CT on Monday; I dunno what else you might hear! Be careful.) Point 3: My advice (worth exactly what it costs): go to the local walmart store and buy some of their cheap flies; take them with your gear to the nearest stocked water, and practice, practice, practice. Then as you improve your presentation skills and develop the desire for more of a challenge, get some of the flies that’ve been previously recommended and search out some more challenging water. Ezflyfish.com seems to me like a great source. Point 4: find some great folks to fish with who will help get you out on those cold rainy days when, without encouragement, you’d end up couch-potatoing in front of the TV. Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Response:

[snip] and, for down home personal service, and even more expertise, contact walt winter at ezflyfish.com.  he is a fellow roffian, guide, and blower of smoke.

Just don’t accept any yellow humpies from him.  <BSEG they tend not to have points – ask Mr. Fortenberry I’ve only been able to fish NC once but did OK on Royal Wulffs, Royal Coachman, and Irrestistibles.  Of course, I also caught some on streamers. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Amelia, The aforementioned flies by the most distinguished roffians are excellent suggestions…. I’ll humbly add my .02 worth…. Adams Parachute size 12 Adams Parachute size 14 Adams Parachute size 16 Adams Parachute size 18 Yellow Humpy size 12 Yellow Humpy size 14 Yellow Humpy size 16 Orange Stimulator size 12 Orange Stimulator size 14 Orange Stimulator size 16 if one of peculiar tastes was to expand their horizons….. Orange Ausable Wulff (brookies love ‘em) March Browns…… especially in March! BWO’s yellowthangy parachute Tan or grey elk hair caddis Sulphurs…. all styles anything with yellow. anything with orange. small wet flies dropped behind a stimulator…… (i caught way too many fish yesterday using a yellahammer dropper) for bottom dwellers, the following nymphs are standard fare…. beadhead princes, hare’s ear, pheasant tails….. for big brown trout….. big olive wooly buggers. for selective trout….. size 20-24 cdc emergers or griffiths gnats. hope this helps…. Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Point 1: you have my sympathy. This hobby will soon turn into an obsession Point 2: You’ve received some great advice from some real experts.

Hey, I thought my advice was great too.

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest?

I don’t think you need 10 patterns.  Pick the flies based on the water type. In western NC that means basically freestone mountain streams that are relatively infertile.  That means a lot of pocket water and opportunistic rather than selective trout .  So use something that stays afloat (if it’s a dry fly) and the fish can see in the broken water.  So use a #12 Parachute Adams or #14 Humpy and save the #18 No-hackle BWO and #22 Griffith’s Gnat for the tailwaters and spring creeks.  Go a little bigger and/or a little fuzzier and/or a little more flash.  A #14 beadhead Hare’s Ear nymph instead of a #18 Pheasant Tail.  Any searching pattern will catch fish, since there are no bigtime haches that the trout get real selective to in most waters (there might be exceptions, such as midges on the Davidson).  A Parachute Adams is more or less a mayfly imitation, but on infertile waters the fish take it as a gray Thingamajiggy that fell out of a tree for all I know. I’ve noticed that yellow seems to be favored in dry flies by fishermen in the Blue Ridge.  Yellow Humpies, yellow/orange stimulators, Harry Murray’s Mr. Rapidan (yellow wings and yellow mixed into the dubbing), Walt’s Yallahammer, etc.

Response:

Question:

My e-mail address here is manipulated, but if you have no objections, I would e-mail you directly with my address. I would be most interested in seeing the pictures.

Sure, use the address in this post, Peter.

Response:

Thanks again for the info,   You obviously know a lot about antique rods. I will take your advice and show the rod to some "antique tackle dealers".  My best option is to make some pictures and send them over the internet as there are not many such dealers where I live (France, near the border to Geneva, Switzerland). If you are interested I’ll post the pictures to the alt.binaries… group as well (I’d like to hear what you think after seeing it) Tight lines, Peter.

Well, I know a little, not really a lot, and my knowledge is based more on the techniques and materials used in building rods, and a little fly-fishing history, than on any great experience in handling antique examples. I am unfortunately unable to see ABPF. I had it for a little while, on a public server, but it was extremely flaky, and now seems to have failed altogether. I would be interested in learning what the dealers you contact eventually say. Just to see if my guess is correct. My e-mail address here is manipulated, but if you have no objections, I would e-mail you directly with my address. I would be most interested in seeing the pictures. TL MC

Response:

Thanks again for the info,   You obviously know a lot about antique rods. I will take your advice and show the rod to some "antique tackle dealers".  My best option is to make some pictures and send them over the internet as there are not many such dealers where I live (France, near the border to Geneva, Switzerland). If you are interested I’ll post the pictures to the alt.binaries… group as well (I’d like to hear what you think after seeing it) Tight lines, Peter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the replies,   I suppose that "greenheart" is some kind of wood other than cane. In fact, it did not look like a splitcane rod at all; no visible joint glued parts, it rather looks like one solid piece of wood. Peter.  If it is completely round, this is usually a sign that it is either greenheart, lancewood, or similar.  These are tropical woods which were used a lot for rodmaking before the advent and general use of split-cane constructions.  Some rods made of these woods  had decorative wrappings, although these served no useful purpose. Non-visible joints are not necessarily a sign that it is not cane. Cane constructions are usually hexagonal in cross-section, there are also other forms extant, but these will also usually be obvious polygons of some nature. It is also possible that the rod is whole cane, but this is unlikely. Wrappings on cane were not simply decorative, but were also used as reinforcement, and in some case some makers were of the opinion that such wrappings could stiffen a rod. Such a rod might be very valuable indeed to a collector. It is more or less essential that you obtain opinions from a couple of good antique tackle dealers. TL MC

Response:

Thanks for the replies,   I suppose that "greenheart" is some kind of wood other than cane. In fact, it did not look like a splitcane rod at all; no visible joint glued parts, it rather looks like one solid piece of wood. Peter.

 If it is completely round, this is usually a sign that it is either greenheart, lancewood, or similar.  These are tropical woods which were used a lot for rodmaking before the advent and general use of split-cane constructions.  Some rods made of these woods  had decorative wrappings, although these served no useful purpose. Non-visible joints are not necessarily a sign that it is not cane. Cane constructions are usually hexagonal in cross-section, there are also other forms extant, but these will also usually be obvious polygons of some nature. It is also possible that the rod is whole cane, but this is unlikely. Wrappings on cane were not simply decorative, but were also used as reinforcement, and in some case some makers were of the opinion that such wrappings could stiffen a rod. Such a rod might be very valuable indeed to a collector. It is more or less essential that you obtain opinions from a couple of good antique tackle dealers. TL MC

Response:

Thanks for the replies,   I suppose that "greenheart" is some kind of wood other than cane. In fact, it did not look like a splitcane rod at all; no visible joint glued parts, it rather looks like one solid piece of wood. Peter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I was at a friends house the other night and he showed me an old wooden rod that he received many years ago. The rod is marked "Geo Wilkins & Son LTD Redditch". It is a four piece rod including two top sections. It is a dark brown round wood and it has a number of colored wraps from top to bottom. It doesn’t look as if it has been used much (or at all) Does anybody out there know if this rod has any value either for fishing or for a collector? Cheers, Peter. I have seen one rod from this firm before. It was a cane two piece rod about 9 feet. It was sold for fifty pounds at auction, but this was quite some time ago now. Prices for some of these things have become rather silly nowadays. You don

Question:

Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi

Response:

Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi

 So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom

Response:

Hans van der Stroom schrieb in Nachricht Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom

I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously quite a few people replied. Hope he manages to get it going though. Would be nice to have something a little more tangible from other ROFF members, makes it more personal somehow. Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I did the same.  Last I heard from him. Hans van der Stroom schrieb in Nachricht William Loehman heeft geschreven in bericht

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously quite a few people replied. Hope he manages to get it going though. Would be nice to have something a little more tangible from other ROFF members, makes it more personal somehow. Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Maybe he’s making a list to sell to phone solicitors…..;] No really. Maybe life intervened. pete

Response:

It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. Cheers, Herman Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Peter Ross was a Scottish barber who combined the now alomost forgotten Teal and Silver and the Teal and Red to a (according to history) very succesful wet fly/attractor. Origins are (top of my head) somewhere late on the last century. I caught more fish on it than I care to remember. Ideal fly for rivers in rainy circumstances and staining water. Fish across and down and have fun! Also very good on lakes. The odd thing about the PR is that it either works for you, or not at all. There’s still some Scottish mystic left in the old pattern I guess.. Pattern: Hook: standard wet fly, normally 8 – 14 Tail: goldpheasant tippets Body: rear 2/3 flat silver, front 1/3 red seal (imitation)       ribbed with silver wire Wing: Teal Hackle: black hen or soft cock, tied to the underside of the hook. Herman, enjoying a wee dram.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am collenting the stuff for the web site. Who is Peter Ross? Paul … Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Ah, thanks Herman, for awhile there I thought I screwed up in picking that one out to give to Mu….the label had me confused. (more than usual, that is) Frank (where am I?) Church

|It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some |time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. |Cheers, Herman |

| | Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment | of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it | that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? | | BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by | Herman. | | Mu | |– |Cheers, Herman |Herman Nijland |Daytime webmaster |Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I thought I was short a fly for a moment because I didn’t see anyflies like that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, thanks Herman, for awhile there I thought I screwed up in picking that one out to give to Mu….the label had me confused. (more than usual, that is) Frank (where am I?) Church |It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some |time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. |Cheers, Herman | | | Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment | of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it | that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? | | BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by | Herman. | | Mu | |– |Cheers, Herman |Herman Nijland |Daytime webmaster |Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

‘Twas an exciting day at the Kirkpatrick household yesterday when the Fly Menagerie arrived.  Even my wife, an occasional fflady (between golf and tennis and gardening pursuits), was intrigued.  She especially liked the cute flys with the eyes.  I was duly impressed by the level of fly-tying-skills displayed, all previously expressed caveats, rationalizations, and absurd excuses notwithstanding.  Geez….These guys are GOOD!  I must have obtained the hand-selected display flys that Frank had obtained from some secret source, mimicing the identical fly types purportedly sent by Roffians.  Great job guys.  I too am looking forward to the web site for more info on how and when to fish each fly.  Thanks to all participants. Pat K In article Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Speaking of which, is the site up yet Paul?  Got a URL for us?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort.

Response:

It’s taking a little longer than I expected (doesn’t every project). Here is one of the flies: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg It is the Green Rock Worm tied by LaCourse. Nice fly but I had expected he’d tie something with wool. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of which, is the site up yet Paul?  Got a URL for us? I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort.

Response:

I just found the pattern in the book by Taff Price "Fly Patterns an international guide" Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Ross was a Scottish barber who combined the now alomost forgotten Teal and Silver and the Teal and Red to a (according to history) very succesful wet fly/attractor. Origins are (top of my head) somewhere late on the last century. I caught more fish on it than I care to remember. Ideal fly for rivers in rainy circumstances and staining water. Fish across and down and have fun! Also very good on lakes. The odd thing about the PR is that it either works for you, or not at all. There’s still some Scottish mystic left in the old pattern I guess.. Pattern: Hook: standard wet fly, normally 8 – 14 Tail: goldpheasant tippets Body: rear 2/3 flat silver, front 1/3 red seal (imitation)       ribbed with silver wire Wing: Teal Hackle: black hen or soft cock, tied to the underside of the hook. Herman, enjoying a wee dram.. Hi, I am collenting the stuff for the web site. Who is Peter Ross? Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Came home tonight to find the most unlikely collection of bugs imaginable on my doorstep.  Everything from dandruff to this big red lobster-lookin thing that looks like more than a match for any fish I’ve ever caught.  Really nice looking set of flies, and quite a few patterns I’ve never even heard of.  Considering the number of people who claimed to be beginners, I am really impressed by how nice these things all look.  Of course there were a couple that were conspicuous by their absence.  All drop-outs have to tie double next year! ;

Question:

Hi,   We’re planning a trip to Vermont for a few days in mid-August following a visit to Boston to attend a wedding (we’re in California). We’d like to find a nice B&B or inn where we can get in some hiking and ff. Any recommendations? Thanks, Gary

Response:

We’re planning a trip to Vermont for a few days in mid-August following a visit to Boston to attend a wedding (we’re in California). We’d like to find a nice B&B or inn where we can get in some hiking and ff. Any recommendations? Thanks, Gary

Gary, Check out By The Old Mill Stream … if you cannot find them on the web, drop me an email, and I will get it for you.  The owner, Steve, is a real nice guy and a fly fisher himself. All the best, Jame

Response:

The reluctant panther in manchester village is wonderful and is 50 feet from the fly fishing museum, 150 feet from the original site of Orvis, 7.5 minute walk from Orvis headquaters, accross the street from glen eagles golf course and virtually next door to the Equinox Hotel (get directions to their pond..located up the mountai behind the hotel..very nice lake bows). The restaurant is wonderful in the inn.  you’ll love it!! I. Clair

Response:

Question:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

My wife Kate, is currently making one for my son Brandon.  She got a pattern from the sewing shop, and is using my Colombia as an inspiration for modifications to the pattern (like mesh and grommet on the pockets, etc.). She is also using Supplex instead of the cotton material the pattern spec’d.  I thought it would be a better idea for drying. HTH, Brian

Response:

They don’t scream as loud as flies do. Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable.

I have struggled for years to find a vest I liked. Bob’s point about a loaded vest digging into the back of your neck is quite true. Why do the makers invariably cut the necks of vests so high? Why do they put collars on the bloody things? Vest are supposed to be load carrying. It’s what they’re for. Moreover, the front bottom pockets are where most people want to carry stuff. It seems that very few vest manufacturers have grasped this fundamental design requirement. Some years ago I bought a Columbia Henry’s Fork vest (remember those bloody irritating adverts about ‘Ma’ knowing best and kicking arse if things weren’t just right, etc.). It cost a fortune having it shipped from the US, paying VAT and duty, etc. That bastard always left me with a sore, stiff neck. The Velcro on the pocket flaps matched nicely when the vest was hanging flat and empty in the closet, but didn’t when anything even slightly fat was put into the pockets. The following are my tips to any would be vest designer/maker, based on years of disappointment. 1. Go for fewer, better designed pockets, especially the big ones on the front bottom. Resist the temptation to include as many pockets as possible. More is NOT better! 2. Cut the neck low. 3. Make sure the pocket closures are designed for FILLED pockets. 4. Choose a material that is light, tough and strong and QUICK DRYING, rather than waterproof. 5. Use all plastic zippers (A friend recently gave me his old Sage ‘Strap vest’. It had been used in the sea and the YKK metal zippers had corroded badly). 6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them. My penny’orth Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them.

I have no choice about what kind of vest I get.  I have to get the short vest or it will go past my massive ass.  I’m sorter than the other guy. However, I’m sure short men or ladies also need the short vest due to physical stature.  Very unlike sex, longer is not always better. Vern

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…I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up….

Just did an on line search and came up with the following.  This is the pattern I used.  #2198- men’s sport vest. http://www.kwiksew.com/Patterns/_Cat_North/Frame.htm Good luck!

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What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all get out our needles and thread now!

It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :)

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: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now! : : : It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to : kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to : killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :) In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Response:

In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Response:

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Depends on if you eat the limb or not. — Charlie…

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: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now!

Really…we gonna fish or we gonna sew ? (Mine has darts !) — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I made a vest.  I always wanted one made from Blue Denim, sort of like a Levi Denim Jacket without sleeves.  I just used a vest I had and drew a pattern on some paper.  Then I laid out the things I wanted to carry and figured out the places and size for the pockets. The pockets all have Velcro closures.  It came out good and I have worn it for years.  I also made a tent, it was a lot of fun. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

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Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi, I made a vest Ernie Harrison

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

I made several vests. I was ultimately satisfied with none of them  although my brother and a couple of other people still use them ). I went back to a custom made fishing jacket. With far too many pockets ! TL MC

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.

I made a vest while a grad student; I was too poor to buy one.  That was about 1956.  I used it till 1996.   It was still in good condition but I decided to treat myself to a new one. The trick is to plan ahead very carefully, so that you can sew the pockets on the inside the and outside without  interference. vince norris  The one I have now is close to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable. Also, it can be a challenge getting the best waterproof materials. Good luck. Bob Elliott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits.

Willi; I have made several vests using a Kwik Sew pattern.  The pattern is for a general purpose vest, not specifically for fishing.  But if you’re good enough with a sewing machine to make your own you won’t have any trouble modifying it to suit your needs.  I use my vest for hunting so the pockets outlined in the pattern are sufficient for my needs.  It won’t be much trouble to add a few more if you like.  this pattern is also too long for a good fishing vest but again, it should be easy enough to shorten.  I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up.

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Yeah Charlie, but it was before she was famous. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Hell, Ernie made Martha Stewart once<g. — Charlie…

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Question:

In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980414223331.5121C- writes The cost is $36 bucks

A simple but effective, and adjustable, strap can be made from a strip of suitable material and some Velcro.  This will cost a lot less that $36. Just a few pence in our money (U.K.)  The strap is not vital for novice casters, who should learn the basics of casting without a strap. However some older, arthritic, or otherwise weak-wristed person will gain some benefit from the use of a strap. I apologise for entering the thread so late in the day, because some of the above has already been suggested. Regards from Wales — Bill

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Has anyone one used a product called ‘Easy Cast’? It’s a type of wrist band that wraps around the base of the fly rod and your wrist. The add claims "Casts will feel 50% lighter and 100% more comfortable and be more effective." The cost is $36 bucks (at least in the catalog I’ve seen them in). If anything, it looks like it’s make an expensive ’sissy strap’, but then again, if it does what it claims… Thanks in advanced!

Hi Robert, This sounds al lot like the "Wrist Lock" that Joan and Lee Wulff sold for years.  From time to time I use one in my schools for people who have extreme problems with their wrist.  They usually have no idea how much wrist movement they’re using. You can also wear a long sleeve shirt and tuck the butt of the rod into your sleeve to accomplish the same thing.  This limits the amount of movement your wrist can make and brings it to your attention.   It is a poor substitute for good technique and not a permanent or a good solution.   After a student sees how much he was using his wrist and and feels how much easier it is to cast by limiting their wrist movement, they can take it off and do as well without it.   If you rely on it to make your casting better, it will help in the short term, but you’ll soon compensate for it and your wrist problems will get worse instead of better.   The only way it can make the rod feel lighter is by making you use your forearm instead of so much wrist.  Less pressure on your wrist would make the rod feel lighter.  Better technique accomplishes the same thing.  If you leave your crutch behind, your fishing is ruined.  If you learn how to cast efficiently you don’t need it, plus you always know where your arm is (hard to lose).                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

These wrist bands have been around for years. I first saw one in 1968. All they do is prevent you from moving your wrist while casting. This is an absolute necessity for the beginning caster. When you bend your wrist the rod tip goes in a circle. the line follows creating a wide loop or even hitting the ground in back and in front of you. Preventing the circular wrist motion avoids these beginners problems. Any strap that holds the rod butt against your forearm will provide the benefits claimed by the product. However,  36 bucks seems a little high when a piece of tape will accomplish the same thing. Two Points: 1) It would be better to learn how to cast correctly without the use of a crutch. Try strapping the rod butt to your forearm just to see how it improves your casting and then produce the same results without the crutch. 2) One advanced distance casting technique is to apply a greater amount of line speed by bending the wrist at the appropriate time late in the cast. This cannot be accomplished if you are dependent on a strap to keep you from bending the wrist at the wrong time. There really is only one way to learn how to cast well. It’s called Practice, Practice, and more Practice. Good Luck, — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone one used a product called ‘Easy Cast’? It’s a type of wrist band that wraps around the base of the fly rod and your wrist. The add claims "Casts will feel 50% lighter and 100% more comfortable and be more effective." The cost is $36 bucks (at least in the catalog I’ve seen them in). If anything, it looks like it’s make an expensive ’sissy strap’, but then again, if it does what it claims… Thanks in advanced! -Robert | Robert Cid | | Department of Applied Science | University of California, Davis | -!Andale Aggies!- |

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This is one of those things that has been around for years.  It falls in the category with all of the other little gadgets that people buy.  If you buy one I have some swamp land I would like to talk to you about buying. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone one used a product called ‘Easy Cast’? It’s a type of wrist band that wraps around the base of the fly rod and your wrist. The add claims "Casts will feel 50% lighter and 100% more comfortable and be more effective." The cost is $36 bucks (at least in the catalog I’ve seen them in). If anything, it looks like it’s make an expensive ’sissy strap’, but then again, if it does what it claims… Thanks in advanced! -Robert | Robert Cid | | Department of Applied Science | University of California, Davis | -!Andale Aggies!- |

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Has anyone one used a product called ‘Easy Cast’? It’s a type of wrist band that wraps around the base of the fly rod and your wrist. The add claims "Casts will feel 50% lighter and 100% more comfortable and be more effective." The cost is $36 bucks (at least in the catalog I’ve seen them in). If anything, it looks like it’s make an expensive ’sissy strap’, but then again, if it does what it claims… Thanks in advanced! -Robert | Robert Cid | | Department of Applied Science | University of California, Davis | -!Andale Aggies!- |

Response:

You can get much the same effect by wearing an elasticated wrist band and hooking it over the end of the rod handle. If nothing else, it’s worth trying first as it is MUCH cheaper! — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email)

: :Has anyone one used a product called ‘Easy Cast’? It’s a type of wrist :band that wraps around the base of the fly rod and your wrist. The add :claims "Casts will feel 50% lighter and 100% more comfortable and be more :effective." The cost is $36 bucks (at least in the catalog I’ve seen them :in). If anything, it looks like it’s make an expensive ’sissy strap’, but :then again, if it does what it claims… : :Thanks in advanced! : :-Robert : Robert Cid Department of Applied Science University of California, Davis -!Andale Aggies!- : :

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Question:

A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? Tinca

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Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.           -rork.

: A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy : to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. : One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the : double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides : me? : Tinca

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Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.

How bout some instructions for the colonists Lou B

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Well give the bleeding unit-knot instructions first  :) Really, I was gonna describe it but it is hard to describe knots for me: Double Grinner:     wrap the tag end of strand a around b, about 3-5 times (not so important, just gets some twist set-up).  Bring the tag end back to the start of the wraps – this makes a loop which you now put the tag end through 3-5 times (smaller lines=more times).  You are making the second set of wraps in the same direction and handedness as the first set.    That makes one half of the knot, do the same for the other half as for any knot in the fisherman’s/blood-knot family.  Pull the two ends tight againt each other.  I partially tighted each side first – they "turn inside out" like lotsa other monofilament knots.  I think it’s mentioned in "The trout and the fly".  - also a colonist. Soon out in paper-back:     my decription of the modified Krey’s-improved bimini-twist……

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One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

This is the knot I always use. I also use the Uni(Duncan Loop) for my terminal connection. I have rarely had any problems with breakage at the terminal connection and the only time I have had a break at the tippet/leader was in breaking off a snag. I can not imagine any weakening with the Uni-knot joining the two pieces of line. With the wraps snugging up it seems to be very secure. Also, it is easy! regards, jw        J. Webb (Preferred)    |    Atlanta Mac User Group         jwebb *AT* netdepot *DOT* com |joe_webb *AT* atlmug *DOT* org

Response:

nothing to beat the uni knot for any thing – greta knot for night fishingas you can tie it with your eyes closed. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

– Tinca

Response:

I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

Yeah, I use the uni-knot all the time Bryce

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Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Mark, I feel there is another issue maybe, buried in here….. that is the *quality* of how one ties a knot….  A poorly tied knot is much weaker than it should be.   I feel several of the knots mentioned ought to get you out of your problem, yet from the post …. seems that doesn’t occur….. makes me think there is a "hidden variable"…. that is the quality of the knot itself and not the design of the knot…..   For "barrel" or blood knots a couple of things… never tie with more than one or 2 thousands difference in the diameters of the leader end and the tippet… otherwise use the loop or the surgeon’s knot…. make the starter set of windings of the blood knot even and unkinked with the two ends pointing in opposite directions.   Wet the total bundle (good ole spit)  and smoothly but firmly pull them taut.   clip excess ends. In teaching this knot to others I have found many who try to pull the knot taut without wetting it or with the preloops not neat and unkinked….   Pratice at home with light tippet and test with a scale until you achieve about 90 % consistently for several knots… Good luck, Alan Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

So much good information has come from this post that I hate to even introduce this, but does anyone else other than me use a little dab of Zap-A-Gap on the knots just to make sure? It’s a cyanoacrylate glue much like crazy glue and only takes a few seconds to dry. Maybe it’s a crude remedy but I got tired of losing the fly, tippet, and even more so the fish. — Frank Tosczak

Response:

  There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots   (e.g. Trilene knot).     I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.

FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ; the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%. The only full 100% knots listed were the doubled loops such as the Bimini twist and the snelled hooks beloved of bait fishers. Ralph H

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  FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ;   the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the   Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was   said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double   surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%.

Ok, so the trilene knot is 95% strength according to your source. My source says full-strength.  There is no difference between these claims.  Experimental uncertainty would easily cover such a trivial difference. As for the double surgeon’s knot, I really don’t think it is even close to 100%.  If it were, is that to say that the "triple surgeon’s" knot is redundant?  I can easily be wrong.  But the flyfisherman article I recall claimed that the best line-to-line knots are still <90% – including the double surgeons etc.  Again, I could easily be wrong.  My own experience with all these line-to-line knots confirms that they are weaker than terminal knots.  But who am I to argue with Lefty kreh eh? Anyway, I don’t get too worried about all this.  I use =8lb test and the only time I ever break my line is when I screw up and do something dumbassed on a fish or when I get snagged.  I don’t think that my 14′ 9wt rod is even capable of breaking 8lb test line. By the way, for anyone interested, the virtual flyshop (www.flyshop.com I think) has a nice set of drawings on how to tie any of the knots mentioned in this discussion. cheers,         -tgades (a good-old 6-barrel bloodknot aficionado) — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,        -tgades

I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south. Ralph H

Response:

I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot?

The basic problem is that the knot the knot I’ve been using to attach the fly (a filson knot) is much stronger than any barrel or double surgeons I’ve been able to tie.  Previously I always used a clinch knot for the fly, but I found a stronger knot for the terminal end, so I was hoping to find one for the tippet/leader junction.    (I also dislike tying the barrell knot especially in the late evening when fish are rising all around and its hard to see) I could solve my problem by switching back to a weaker knot to attach the fly.  From the sound of some of the other posters that sounds like the way to go, but I was hoping that someone would have a better solution. Thanks again, Mark Watson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

I use a loop to loop connection, with a loop knot the name of which I can’t recall, but it’s in lefty kreh and mark sosin’s knot book.  I use a clinch knot for the fly connection, and that almost always breaks first.  Even if it doesn’t, the knot that breaks is the tippet side of the loop to loop, so I just make a new tippet, and attach it, with no overall leader length loss.  Works great, you should try it. — Andrew Brunette

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   There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots    (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of    tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that    can do 100%.        cheers,                -tgades       I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon.

the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.   By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south.

The Antarctic field season (nov,dec,jan) was very good and productive, though the weather was poor this year and we spent a total of 30+days waiting for flights in the field. The fishing in NZ (24Jan-5Mar) was excellent once again.  After 4 years in a row fishing for a month or more in NZ, it seems more and more fun.  I’ll likely be heading back once again next year.  I’ll let you know when I scan in a few pics from the 98 NZ season.  I caught some tremendous browns this year.  I still have a few pictures from last year:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/NZ/NZ_97.html Since I’ve been home I’ve hooked 2 steelhead, landed 1.  I scanned a picture of this beautiful native hen.  It is at the top of my fish page:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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  the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H

There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  

the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot. Ralph H

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Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Hi Mark. Depending on how much time I have, I’ll use the Blood Knot or the Double Surgeon’s Knot. The Blood Knot takes longer to tie, but is stronger, so I use it when I’m rigging before I go to the river. If I’m on the stream and I get a wind knot that I can’t untie very close to the tippet/leader knot, they I’ll cut off my existing tippet and use a Double Surgeon’s Knot to put a new one on. That’s just what I use. Bryce    

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I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

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Question:

(currently resident in bolivia)

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Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

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TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

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For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

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Question:

I’m looking for info on a fly-fishing school for women.  My girlfriend wants to get  into the sport, but would feel more comfortable learning with and from other women.  Does anyone know of such a school in New England?

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Orvis runs separate schools for women (and also mixed). LL bean also has classes. Both are in New England. Also check with individual shops – many are now starting to offer classes for women. Ann

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Orvis runs separate schools for women (and also mixed). LL bean also has classes. Both are in New England. Also check with individual shops – many are now starting to offer classes for women. Ann

Also, Lori Ann Miller runs schools out west. Used to be out of Jackson, but now I think she is headquartered out of Idaho. She can be reached through the Orvis shop in Jackson, and her name and number are also in the Orvis Catalogue. She runs an outfit called "Reel Women." Christy Ball was in this business with her, but I don’t know if she still is. I am sure Christy still does the same thing, and probably can be reached through the same Orvis store in Jackson. I understand they are exceptional. Kevin Williams

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In Northern California, Clearwater House presents their "Mastering the Art of Fly Fishing" for women only.  I’ve taken a number of classes there, know the staff, and can’t recommend them any higher. If you’re interested, check out <http://www.ecenter.net/clearwater/, or you can call, 415.381.1173. Kim — —– Kim St. John Woodward         |   "When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. St. John Software             |    No regrets." http://www.EveningRise.com

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Hi-    I teach women-only classes to those who want them. Our school is in the town of Truckee about 20 minutes north of Lake Tahoe. We’re booked into October of this year but do keep an on-deck list to cover cancellations.    -Tight lines, Lisa —

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208 787 2657 Fax 208 787 2691 Gary Baja on the Fly

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Hi,   Great Basin College in Elko, Nevada will be running a lady’s school on July 26 and 27. For mor info, contact Pat Warren at (702) 753-2231 Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, NV

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