Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F. Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

        jesus, how revolting.  and yet we have folks here who get nauseous over the appearance of penelope cruz’s name, for god’s sake. your friend in the old north state wayno  (i mean, why isn’t rock trout all over this, as his hero says, like a bad suit…)

Response:

I am not a true devotee but I  have some yak hair around.  The zoo in Bismarck ND had two yaks (Yak and Yill ) that shed great masses of hair about this time of year.  I think one could have easily picked up two or three gunny sacks of yak hair without crossing into their pens.   The Bismarck zoo was more like a farm yard than a zoo and the wind blew the hair about. Speaking of zoos.  I had a friend ( still a friend but he quit the zoo job ) that gave me some polar bear hair he got at  the zoo. Polar bears also shed and he got the hair out of a filter in the bears swimming pool system.  I don’t know if hair obtained that way is leagle or not.  If I remember the law forbids skin and fur but I don’t know about  hair.  I  don’t know how much hair a polar bear sheds but he did say cleaning the filter was done every day or two.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns *****Snipped ****** TL MC

Response:

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

Response:

i have llama’s…….got a mother & daughter in trade for tax work…how much llama fur do you need? give me an address and its yours….(as long as it fits into an envelope)…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F. Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

Response:

Thanks a lot for the information. Now all I have to do is brush my cat more often. Seems like an endless source of dubbing material

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns Mr.Charles might be of assistance, or try; http://www.wigandhairpiecesupply.com/hair2.html http://www.fao.org/docrep/v9384e/v9384e00.htm For some really exotic flies try http://www.kats-korner.com/bigcats/clouded.html TL MC

Response:

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

See my previous post!  and ; http://www.canadianllama.com/ http://www.modernflies.com/llama.htm http://www.thebentrod.com/dubbing.htm http://www.justflytying.com/llama_material.htm http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/14_dubbings_naturels/e14_natur… ings.htm For general information, one may use any hair or fur, for dubbing etc. If it is the right colour and texture, simply use it.  Some are more suitable for particular purposes, ( Polar Bear hair, is a case in point), but all of it is usable. TL MC

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it?

Nothing specific. My two cats have very different fur, and one of the cats (my favorite) has many layers, colors, and textures. The stiffer hair is good for tails and legs, while the finer is good for dubbing. I recently tied some #12 and #16 mayfly spinners with the light-colored fur as body dubbing. I’ve caught some fish with them, so fish must like cats as much as cats like fish.  :-) Tim and to hell with this "brushing the cat" stuff — scissors work just fine.

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff.           Frank Reid

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff.

Well, shoot.   Considering that this animal is damn near as smart as I am and a whole lot faster, I’m thinkin that 99 cents would be well spent. Joe F.

Response:

I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff. Well, shoot.   Considering that this animal is damn near as smart as I am and a whole lot faster, I’m thinkin that 99 cents would be well spent. Joe F.

Goats don’t spit like llamas either. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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I’ve heard some people say so….?

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I’ve heard some people say so….?

works for me  :-) Tim

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard some people say so….? works for me  :-) Tim

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it?

http://flytyingworld.com/PagesJ/jt-catcaddis.htm http://fly.hiwaay.net/~lmobbs/page12.html http://www.dicksfavoritesports.com/materialstips.htm http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/cottons.htm http://web.utk.edu/~ldecuir/tu/96sep.htm#l7 http://www.bobsflytying.com/mar02-julie.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/cpprhd.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/Ecdynymph.html http://www.beavers.ca/hmmm.html http://www.fly-fishing-club.co.uk/ibvar.html http://flytyingworld.com/PagesU/ug-m.htm http://www.visi.com/~mpv/FlyFishing/Adams/AdamsFOTM.html There are thousands more. Cat fur can be used for a whole range of patterns. TL MC

Response:

Thanks a lot for the information. Now all I have to do is brush my cat more often. Seems like an endless source of dubbing material – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it? http://flytyingworld.com/PagesJ/jt-catcaddis.htm http://fly.hiwaay.net/~lmobbs/page12.html http://www.dicksfavoritesports.com/materialstips.htm http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/cottons.htm http://web.utk.edu/~ldecuir/tu/96sep.htm#l7 http://www.bobsflytying.com/mar02-julie.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/cpprhd.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/Ecdynymph.html http://www.beavers.ca/hmmm.html http://www.fly-fishing-club.co.uk/ibvar.html http://flytyingworld.com/PagesU/ug-m.htm http://www.visi.com/~mpv/FlyFishing/Adams/AdamsFOTM.html There are thousands more. Cat fur can be used for a whole range of patterns. TL MC

Response:

Question:

Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there.

Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

Response:

Not my wife (Gaelle), lest she kill me. Just a co-presenter (Taryn McCann) who catches bigger fish. My curse? Having to fire her pretty ass before she catches more! I ain’t caught no mullet. Sudesh Pursad has (I think) www.bamba.co.za. Ari Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Mike, I love casting a silk line, they really bring old bamboo rods to life. they need fussing with but it’s worth it when using the older rods with small line guides. and it floats well when fresh. when it gets waterlogged around lunch time just spread it out between a couple trees to air dry, finish lunch and retreat with Mucilin Red Label- don’t use the Green Label, it has silicone which is BAD for silk. or you can do what i do and buy two half lines – Thebault makes them – and switch lines when one gets waterlogged. you can find Phoenix and Thebault lines at www.wagnerrods.com at a good price. the Phoenix is a more polished line right out of the box, the Thebault will take a little breaking in. both are beautiful to look at and hit the water so softly and quietly….try it , you’ll like it cheers, Bob please visit my site at http://www.bluecollarcane.com

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same?

I use a Phoenix silk DT5 on an old bamboo rod. They’re a match made in flyfishing heaven. Have never tried it on a modern rod. The only place I know of to get a NEW silk line is to mail order from Phoenix in France. http://www.phoenixlines.com/ You can find used silk in the US, but be careful, and make sure you’re getting silk and not nylon. Reed Curry has an excellent article on his web site about purchasing and cleaning old silk lines. http://www.overmywaders.com/articles/cleaningsilk.html HTH — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Ari I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Response:

Question:

With a crossbow. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!! Speaking of which, what is the best way to attach the hook and weight a cat? Warren "get a dog and kill a non-barn cat" Findley <g

Response:

With a crossbow.

So do you tie the tippet on around the bolt by the fletching, then pull the bolt through and then tie on the hook or what? Inquiring minds want to know dammit! <g — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Yes tippet to the bolt and fired so the barbed bolt buries deep enough to ensure a solid connection. If a hook is reverse mounted and tied to the bolt it should be left protruding  enough to ensure hookups. Another tip… good floatant for cats is Mherke’s Manx. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With a crossbow. So do you tie the tippet on around the bolt by the fletching, then pull the bolt through and then tie on the hook or what? Inquiring minds want to know dammit! <g — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

(Salmo gairdneri) The steelhead

Steelhead and rainbows have been reclassified as Onchorynchus mykiss since they are related to pacific salmon and not atlantic salmon. Ocean prowling fish follow food to depths ranging in the hundreds of feet.  This is known to be true in all our deep land locked and Great Lakes.  Color becomes a primary concern to fly tiers and most everyone does not know that the color "Yellow" changes the deeper it goes under water.

Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian. Mu

Response:

Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian.

Hmm…I can’t find those colors on my Borger chart… /daytripper (Any shot for #27?)

Response:

Splork!  Trip, you get the bill for cleaning the spewed Dr. Pepper out of my keyboard.     — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian. Hmm…I can’t find those colors on my Borger chart… /daytripper (Any shot for #27?)

Response:

George: Thanks for the info about streamers. I think most of us have not spent as much time as we should learning to tie and fish streamers properly. WhenIi went to the FFF Show in Livingston last month one of the classes in tying that I took was one taught by Scott Sanchez. Among the flies he taught us to tie was the Double Bunny. For those who are not aware, this is the fly that won the One Fly Contest three times and they considered banning it from the contest simply because it worked so well. This fly uses a large hook, a bunch of .035 lead wire and two magnum sized rabbit strips glued together. If you tie it big enough, you need AT LEAST an 8 weight rod to cast it and a 10 weight rod is even better. Casting this streamer is no damn fun, since it feels like you are casting a dead cat, but it sure catches big fish. Our local striper lake is turning over now, so the striper fishing has gone away for a while below the damn, but I am getting a box full of Double Bunny flies ready for when this fishing returns. I may have to break out the big rod and a few of these streamers next month when I will be fishing the White River in Arkansas. I feel a need to work some of these streamers in some holes in that river. Big Dale

Response:

Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!!

Speaking of which, what is the best way to attach the hook and weight a cat? Warren "get a dog and kill a non-barn cat" Findley <g

Response:

Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!! Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George: Thanks for the info about streamers. I think most of us have not spent as much time as we should learning to tie and fish streamers properly. WhenIi went to the FFF Show in Livingston last month one of the classes in tying that I took was one taught by Scott Sanchez. Among the flies he taught us to tie was the Double Bunny. For those who are not aware, this is the fly that won the One Fly Contest three times and they considered banning it from the contest simply because it worked so well. This fly uses a large hook, a bunch of .035 lead wire and two magnum sized rabbit strips glued together. If you tie it big enough, you need AT LEAST an 8 weight rod to cast it and a 10 weight rod is even better. Casting this streamer is no damn fun, since it feels like you are casting a dead cat, but it sure catches big fish. Our local striper lake is turning over now, so the striper fishing has gone away for a while below the damn, but I am getting a box full of Double Bunny flies ready for when this fishing returns. I may have to break out the big rod and a few of these streamers next month when I will be fishing the White River in Arkansas. I feel a need to work some of these streamers in some holes in that river. Big Dale

Response:

GEORGE GEHRKE Snake River – Hell’s Canyon                     September 5, 2001, 12:00 AM Asotin, WA 99402 PH: 509-243-4100 FAX: 509-243-4644  The old adage, "If you want to catch big fish you should use big bait," has a proven history of working.  When it comes to streamers and their use, I can’t begin to tell all the stories involving the deadly use of them. Streamers are intended to perform two major things when fishing under water.  To entice as in offering an attractor and two, to duplicate something.  In the latter case, streamers are intended to duplicate minnows and small fish. There is a third presentation and that is the combining of the two of an attractor that is also a minnow.  The first streamer that comes to mind is the "Mickey Finn" because it is an attractor but also comes across as a small trout such as the rainbow, brown, or even the cutthroat.  Many large fish take streamers with great power because they sometimes only get a glimpse of it shooting by. I never go anywhere without a couple of these babies somewhere in my vest. Specifically, today I took Gladys out to "Ernie’s Restaurant" which is a Gulf Side place in South Panama City.  It sits among the docks and your view is that of beautiful boats moored dock side.  In between is the kind of clean water that has prowling Snook and other various predators. As we sat snacking on our entrees of crab-cakes and mushrooms laced with a large Jack Daniels Black and seven, I noticed the slick, mirrored water about a hundred yards up, between to docks starting to vibrate which is "nervous water" which really are minnows being corralled.  I said, "Gladys, look!  See that nervous water?  You’re about to see a very nice fish come leaping or swirling right there. Like us, the feed is on."  I no sooner say this and by golly, a very large Snook came out of the water with a mouthful of minnows while two others only slash and soon the water goes calm.  A minute later, the nervous water moves twenty yards toward the docks and under one of them.  The chase continues for over a half hour. Perhaps they were small mullet?  If one knew what they were and if they had a streamer that matched that nervous water, it would be a winner.  There is nothing more thrilling then catching a Snook that pushes twenty pounds or more.  Often these babies around docks are ten to fifteen pounders and on a fly rod one couldn’t ask for more. Well, saltwater fly fishing with streamers isn’t the only place you can catch big fish.  Fresh water streamers are the things one uses most often to set World Records with.  Del Canty of old is a prime example of a master streamer fly fisherman.  He once came to the American Sportsman’s Club in Denver Colorado with a 12 pound Rainbow he caught with a size 4 Muddler Minnow just above the Wigwam Club.  He used a sinking line and twitched that Muddler across the bottom of a deep pool and he was there at day break.  Catching big fish with streamers seems to work best at night, early morning and late evenings. When ocean running salmon and steelhead, both being anadromous fish, give the fly fisherman a great advantage because they come back to their birth rivers with memories.  Yes, conditioned memories, for they know what they’ve been chasing and feeding on a thousand miles away. IF, we as fly fishermen can "Match the Memory" with the proper streamers, you’ve hit a home run. Here, is a unique problem that presents itself.  As with the Mickey Finn, one is able to duplicate minnow type and attractive thoughts such as sparkle of the Minnie scales that explode and drift and shine during feeding attacks into schools of minnows.  We can duplicate the carnage in the red we use in our streamers for the blood, and you’re able to tie the baby smolt of other fish, the sardines, darters, any number of things that live in between you and their ocean homes. (Salmo gairdneri) The steelhead, will return to the ocean three and even four or more times but not much over that.  The salmon return and often propagate only once and then die.  Their flesh turns back into nutrients and returns to the sea.  Birds, animals, all that is in contact with a salmon river benefit directly and indirectly.  But the steelhead is a creature that can provide a fly fisherman with an endless amount of useful information.  For instance. Ocean prowling fish follow food to depths ranging in the hundreds of feet.  This is known to be true in all our deep land locked and Great Lakes.  Color becomes a primary concern to fly tiers and most everyone does not know that the color "Yellow" changes the deeper it goes under water. It doesn’t take much depth to affect yellow as the ultraviolet rays separate from normal white light when it enters the water.  Yellow becomes various shades of green.  If Steelhead or any other fish that is atune to a shade of green on an offering being offered deep, a green at the beginning will be the wrong green down deep, whereas one may want to consider starting with a shade of yellow for it to become the right shade of green upon arrival.  This is why I have some Green Butted Skunks tied with yellow butts instead of green, just in case. It works! What we don’t know about fly tying and streamers is infinitely greater then what we know, which means, we really don’t know all that much yet.  Streamers and tying them and then fishing them, even in these modern times is of less interest to the general fly fishing public then they were in the past.  I’m from the old streamer school of fly fishermen.  I’m one of those old fogies that did more (and still do) more streamer fly fishing then dry fly fishing.  In fact, I do three times more nymph fishing then I do dries.  To my mind, trout and most fish do 9/10ths of their feeding under water, not taking things off the top only 1/10th of the time.  Somehow, I think following the real action makes more sense.  True, dry fly fishing is the nicest thing to do since sex.  Who can argue with that.  Thank goodness fly fishing lasts longer. I don’t know what the real percentage is regarding how much food trout get under water but I’m confident it’s over 7/10ths of the time. Trout don’t like coming to the surface because it’s dangerous!  If the food supply and calorie content makes it worth it, sure they’re going to rise to the fly but it is still dangerous.  This is one of the main reasons STREAMERS make trout feel right at home.  They are used to chasing things and they like chasing my streamers. That, sort of makes me smile a lot. Out of a half dozen favorite flies I’d pick the Muddler Minnow and Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear as my first two choices.  The Muddler is so ugly it’s pretty.  Dave Whitlock has tied various styles of them and anyone who researches that aspect of his signature regarding Muddler Minnows will not be wasting their time. One should seine for the Muddler Minnows in their rivers for this could be an eye opener because they are often larger, darker, more big headed and uglier then you imagine.  Large trout don’t chase too many Muddlers because they are a well camouflaged fish and they hug the bottom in order to stay alive.  By offering a Muddler Minnow Streamer that comes off the bottom will get many fishes attention.  Many times when Steelhead fishing, you can track one of these in a convincing wake because you’re able to trim the chin in such a manner so it will plane properly.  Talk about a champion offering, this often will save the day. I often abandon streamers during the heat of the day not unless I can get into broken water where large fish are sulking under their window of safety.  Even then, the current is much too fast and you will often get only the eager, strong eighteen inch browns and bows.  It is NIGHT TIME where big fish come out to chase little fish up to about twelve to fourteen inches.  This is why one need not fear feeling ridiculous by offering a streamer monstrosity whenever it suits their fancy.  You know those big #2 4X hooks you have in storage slowly rusting away from lack of  use?  Well, those are the babies that those meat eating ten to twenty pound browns will chase willingly.  The darker the night, the better.  Never, never, never under estimate the seeing powers of trout’s eyes.  If you catch a big hog brown, do your future fishing a favor. Fillet it and send it to T-Bone for his Barbie. The attractive powers of streamers and night fishing is one of those unsung aspects of fly fishing that usually appeals to those who are willing to try anything new and who are not afraid of things that go thump in the night!  I knew of a day time worker that slept at night. He often fly fished at night and he always seemed to be catching the really big fish. Think about Bates and Steamers and Bodacious Browns.  You just might get hooked. Tying Streamers is really a LOT OF FUN!  Hooking up using them, even more!

Response:

Question:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.

I enthusiastically agree.  Even though most of the material in this book is recycled from "An Outside Chance, 2nd Ed." which was recycled from the first edition, which was a compilation of essays published in "Sports Illustrated" (in their glory days in the 70’s) and elsewhere, this book is a must-read.  McGuane has a gift for writing like nobody else I know. I wish I had been born 15 years earlier, and had been in Key West in the early 70’s, when it was haunted by McGuane, Russell Chatham, Jim Harrison, and Jimmy Buffett.  Don’t even want to go there now, I fear it would be a horrible disappointment. Kevin

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

This is the finest fishing-related book I’ve read in many years. Maybe ever. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

joe, that book is one of my favorites… it’s been awhile, mebbe i’m due for a re-read. walt

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Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post

    do us all a favor.  send a copy to forty. wayno

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

It just keeps getting better as your read through it. There’s a piece on permit fishing toward the end that is possibly the best thing that I have read on fly fishing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

Response:

Question:

Hello, just thought id tell you that I won a tournament on Hartwell Lake in SC last Sept.and my pattern was fishing behind the surfacing gar.My theory was that the baitfish where thereand the gar were injuring some and the bass were after an easy meal.

Response:

Please don’t laugh. I mean this as a serious question. Are gars good to eat? I always thought of them as a trash fish like drum or carp. But maybe they are a member of the pike family. I don’t know. If so, maybe they are good to eat. I’ve never caught a bass while a gar was around. But the gars I see always seem to be right at the surface while the bass are usually deeper. – Larry

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What were you throwing?  (We have tons of gar on Lakes Murray, Greenwood, Russel, et al.)  I have thrown to where gar where hitting bait fish, but have yet to get a strike from bass. — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!

Hello, just thought id tell you that I won a tournament on Hartwell Lake in SC last Sept.and my pattern was fishing behind the surfacing gar.My theory was that the baitfish where thereand the gar were injuring some and the bass were after an easy meal.

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In South Louisiana Gar are plentiful, a 4ft gar is common  they normally tread open water where Bass like cover, they both eat the same forage fish and Gar will usually hit on the same baits as Bass, they will even chase a Buzz Bait, As a general rule like turtles and gators if they are  around so are the Bass I cant say I ever noticed the Gar scaring off the Bass, Bass are Territorial also which is the other reason why they seek cover either the Bass are on or they arent. And yes they are edible, I’ve tasted them cooked several ways, can’t really say I care for it much but theyre ok…….coonass eat anything though, Im not Cajun though I grew up in Fla. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please don’t laugh. I mean this as a serious question. Are gars good to eat? I always thought of them as a trash fish like drum or carp. But maybe they are a member of the pike family. I don’t know. If so, maybe they are good to eat. I’ve never caught a bass while a gar was around. But the gars I see always seem to be right at the surface while the bass are usually deeper. – Larry

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RE: What were you throwing? I was thowing a combination of things.  I was using a popper surface plug throwing it into shallow water near trees and stumps.  I usually spend alot of time getting the doggone thing untangled but what the heck, that’s why I bought a boat-I’ve yet to lose a lure from a snag (cross my fingers). Nothing makes my heart race like seeing the water erupt after the plug hits the water and a bass has decided to make a meal of my wood and stainless steel lure.  I’m probably more suprised than the bass. When there were fewing visible snags, I’d throw a spinner bait (1/4 oz , day glow green head and mixed day glow green and white skirt with gold spinners).  I also tried a 1/8 oz spinner bait with a white head and skirt. The fish (some bass) seem to like this better although I’ve caught a bowfin once on this type of lure and don’t even want this nasty looking thing near the boat!  I presume the white skirt looks more like shad in the greenish water, whereas the day glow green/yellow doesn’t.  It may be a size thing too-the 1/4 oz lure is much bigger than the 1/8 ounce lure. Ryan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What were you throwing?  (We have tons of gar on Lakes Murray, Greenwood, Russel, et al.)  I have thrown to where gar where hitting bait fish, but have yet to get a strike from bass. — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales! Hello, just thought id tell you that I won a tournament on Hartwell Lake in SC last Sept.and my pattern was fishing behind the surfacing gar.My theory was that the baitfish where thereand the gar were injuring some and the bass were after an easy meal.

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Ryan, my question was posted to Donald, who, like me, lives and fishes in South Carolina. Sounds like you are doing OK when around gar, but Donald raised a point about something I see a lot: four or five gar gorging themselves on minnows or shad. — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RE: What were you throwing? I was thowing a combination of things.  I was using a popper surface plug throwing it into shallow water near trees and stumps.  I usually spend alot of time getting the doggone thing untangled but what the heck, that’s why I bought a boat-I’ve yet to lose a lure from a snag (cross my fingers). Nothing makes my heart race like seeing the water erupt after the plug hits the water and a bass has decided to make a meal of my wood and stainless steel lure.  I’m probably more suprised than the bass. When there were fewing visible snags, I’d throw a spinner bait (1/4 oz , day glow green head and mixed day glow green and white skirt with gold spinners).  I also tried a 1/8 oz spinner bait with a white head and skirt. The fish (some bass) seem to like this better although I’ve caught a bowfin once on this type of lure and don’t even want this nasty looking thing near the boat!  I presume the white skirt looks more like shad in the greenish water, whereas the day glow green/yellow doesn’t.  It may be a size thing too-the 1/4 oz lure is much bigger than the 1/8 ounce lure. Ryan What were you throwing?  (We have tons of gar on Lakes Murray, Greenwood, Russel, et al.)  I have thrown to where gar where hitting bait fish, but have yet to get a strike from bass. — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales! Hello, just thought id tell you that I won a tournament on Hartwell Lake in SC last Sept.and my pattern was fishing behind the surfacing gar.My theory was that the baitfish where thereand the gar were injuring some and the bass were after an easy meal.

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I was using a 6 inch black worm carolina rig.I thought that the different bait would throw in a little contrast. It worked.Sometimes you have to go against thr grain I guess.                                 Good Luck

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In Arkansas some of my friends fish for gar as we fish for Bass—Their best lure is unbraided nylon rope-no hooks!!  The gar’s teeth are like Velcro loops and the unbraided 1/4 inch nylon is a sure fire bait. Try it–it’s fun—But you don’t get your "bait" back after a battle! Blaine "Fishing is a disease—and I got it BAD!"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello All, In the river that I fish (the Merimac in St. Louis, MO) I regularly see what I *think* are gar surfacing all the time.  They kind of ‘porpoise’; come up out of the water so that their dorsal fin and tail fin break the top of the water then submerge.  Some of them are huge-tonight I saw one I swear was 5 feet long.  My boat is only 17 feet long so it looked pretty big!  While I’m fishing for bass and these fish are around, I seldom get any bites.  I have to conclude that these are predator fish and will eat bass, therefore the absence of bass when these fish are around.  Anyone know for sure? Also, it would *might* fun to catch one of these monsters-anyone know what they’ll bite on?  If there are any Missouri fisherman out there who know what kind of fish they are, please identify them for me! Thanks, Ryan

It’s real fun to hook into a 10,20,30 pound gar with a fly rod…      Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server

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I have got to hear more about this…I see gar in Beaver Lake all the time….I have thrown all kinds of flies at them while thery are coming up for a "gulp" of air……tell me more about this nylon rope; how long…do you use it like a lure?  Tie it on like a lure? GregH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Arkansas some of my friends fish for gar as we fish for Bass—Their best lure is unbraided nylon rope-no hooks!!  The gar’s teeth are like Velcro loops and the unbraided 1/4 inch nylon is a sure fire bait. Try it–it’s fun—But you don’t get your "bait" back after a battle! Blaine "Fishing is a disease—and I got it BAD!"

Response:

 While I’m fishing for bass and these fish are around, I seldom get any bites.  I have to conclude that these are predator fish and will eat bass, therefore the absence of bass when these fish are around.  Anyone know for sure?

At times both bass and other predators inhabit the same areas. The reason mainly being availability of food and cover or water temp and oxygen levels. However gars will tolerate areas that no respectable bass will. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be found together, just that more often than not an area covered with gars is often void of bass. — Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service –  http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html

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Hello All, In the river that I fish (the Merimac in St. Louis, MO) I regularly see what I *think* are gar surfacing all the time.  They kind of ‘porpoise’; come up out of the water so that their dorsal fin and tail fin break the top of the water then submerge.  Some of them are huge-tonight I saw one I swear was 5 feet long.  My boat is only 17 feet long so it looked pretty big!  While I’m fishing for bass and these fish are around, I seldom get any bites.  I have to conclude that these are predator fish and will eat bass, therefore the absence of bass when these fish are around.  Anyone know for sure? Also, it would *might* fun to catch one of these monsters-anyone know what they’ll bite on?  If there are any Missouri fisherman out there who know what kind of fish they are, please identify them for me! Thanks, Ryan

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Question:

Thanks for the responeses, Jeff

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Maybe you can help me,     My Dad just got a fly rod from a friend whose father recently died.  He would like to use it but does not want to if it is potientially valuable. It is a split bamboo, ~6′6".  Printed on it is "GOLDEN BAMBOO"  "MADE IN JAPAN"  and signed "L.M. Dixon"  Any ideas about it? Thanks, Jeff

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Historically, Japanese Rods have not been treated well in the collectors market. They were made with much less care and dedication to detail than most USA or UK rods. Being somewhat familiar with the "market", I would suggest you get another opinion and then go fish the rod if it is still in good enough condition.  The Japanese are very active these days buying USA made rods, both older and new. Tight lines. DSW

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Dixon was not a very valuable rod in term of it’s collectability;Just becuase it’s bamboo doesn’t mean it’s valuable. In fact, most old bamboo rods are down right worthless then, and they are worthless now. One indication of quality of rod quality is to count the number of guides and look at the quality of ferrules. In the old days, the value of the bamboo rod were primarily determined by the quality and quantity of it’s hardware, not the bamboo blank itself, which could be worth next to nothing. It sound strange, but true. If the rod is in good shape, you may just wish to use it as is or, if you have the inclination, refinish with new poly varnish and rewrap new modern guides for modern fly lines etc… My first refinishing effort was on a old Dixon I picked up for next to nothing. I re-corked , re-coat with modern poly varnish and replaced all the guides with bigger one for modern fly lines, and you would not believe how the rod turned out. What’s more, it taught me alot about bamboo rod refinishing and it  gave me insights into later refinishing and restoration efforts of other more valuable rods. To me, that Dixon was priceless. These refinishing efforts can be teach you alot  about – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you can help me,    My Dad just got a fly rod from a friend whose father recently died.  He would like to use it but does not want to if it is potientially valuable. It is a split bamboo, ~6′6".  Printed on it is "GOLDEN BAMBOO"  "MADE IN JAPAN"  and signed "L.M. Dixon"  Any ideas about it? Thanks, Jeff

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_______  Like a spring Caddis Fly that will soon have gone through it’s complete metamorphosis, I am slowly becoming a BAMBOO GEEK.  The study of cane never leaves my thoughts.  I have cut a short piece and split it.  I fondle it and carry it with me everywhere I go.  It is thick.  It is hard and sharp of edge and the sample holds a molecular world I know little of . . . yet my imagination travels inside it, inbetween all its molecules.  Cured long ago, this yellow stick from the far Orient, has found a home.  It speaks to me in a way better then words. So it is, inanimate in all respects, but a spirit of promise radiates from it like radium from plain rock, as it sits here, infecting me.  I am drawn to the mysteries of Tonkin. I am sure of it, in my mind, on this adventure, that the very first fly rod I will make will be as good as the last one I will ever make in my life.  I have been thinking about #1 for thousands of hours and for many months.  No, I haven’t ever done this before, but it matters not because my whole life has been dressed in the clothing’s of the great outdoors. How could it not be so?  I seldom do things badly in my life except I did piss on my own leg in a Mountain’s Wind Storm, once. I have it in my heart, that if someone doesn’t purchase #1 by the time I build it, I may donate it to a Museum.   I will put a high price on it as a collector’s item and that will be that.  I will let history judge the wisdom of it all years into the future, when people such as you and I are long dead nd gone, and another generation of Bastard Fly Rod Artists will pass on a legacy long since into high serial numbers.  One day, some one will visit the A Museum of Fly Fishing and see the #1 Bastard Fly Rod and they may ask just one question.  "I wish I could have been there to buy it when they had the chance,"  and we will giggle ourselves into eternity, while fly fishing one of God’s trout streams. Mr. G. i was never a man of hindsight  http://www.gink.com

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_______  Like a spring Caddis Fly that will soon have gone through it’s complete metamorphosis, I am slowly becoming a BAMBOO GEEK.  The study of cane never leaves my thoughts.  I have cut a short piece and split it.  I fondle it and carry it with me everywhere I go.  It is thick.  It is hard and sharp of edge and the sample holds a molecular world I know little of . . . yet.  Cured long ago, this yellow stick from the far Orient, has found a home.  It speaks to me in a way better then words. So it is, inanimate in all respects, but a spirit of promise radiates from it like radium from a plain rock, as it sits here – infecting me, just sitting there. I am drawn by the mystery of Tonkin Cane. I have it in my mind, on this adventure, that the very first fly rod I make will be the best fly rod I will ever make in my life.  I have been thinking about #1 for thousands of hours and for many months.  No, I haven’t ever done this thing before, but it matters not because my whole life  is now dressed in Bamboo.  How could it not be so?  I’ve never done anything badly in my life except piss on my own leg in a wind storm, once. I have it in my heart, that if someone doesn’t purchase #1 by the time I build it, I will donate this first Bastard of my dreams to The American Museum of Fly Fishing.  I will put a high price on it as a collector’s item and that will be that.  I will let history judge the wisdom of it all years into the future, when people such as you and I are long dead and gone, and another generation of Bastard Fly Rod Artists will pass on a legacy long since into high serial numbers.  One day, some one will visit the American Museum of Fly Fishing and see the #1 Bastard Fly Rod I have in my mind and heart and they may ask just one question.  "I wish I could have been there to buy it when I had the chance,"  and I will turn over in my grave giggling myself into eternity. I told you so. Mr. G. i was never a man of hindsight —

Question:

I have had this happen to me on occasion. I use a hemostat and open the gap of the hook a small amount as well as off-setting the point a bit. This seems to occur most often when I’m using very small flies, 18-24. Just my 2 cents worth and it helps my hook ups when I can’t seem to hook anything.

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Mike, Maybe you should talk to your Doc.  I just had knee surgery and my Doc said fishing and in particular float tubeing is great therapy.  i.e. cold water for swelling and good low impact excercise.  Talk to a sports medicine specialist.  Which is all We have in Tahoe.   As to missed hook ups?  I miss just as many from a boat as from a tube go figure. Dick W.

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Soft mouths may be part of the problem, it seems when this occurs, the sharper the hook, the larger the tear it makes in the tissue, resulting in a larger oblong hole, enabling the hook to let itself work free easier. Another problem may be fish caught and released rather frequently whose hmouth hasn’t had a chance to heal yet….I mean, I’m sure we’ve all been in a place where we’ve caught the same fish twice in one outing and you know what I’m talking about. What’s the answer? Hell, I dunno…it’s not barbed or duller hooks, that’s fersure! Larry #:)#

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I have seen people dunk the rod tip in the water to prevent the fish jumping. Never tried it myself preferring to keep the tension on the line as the fish jumps. That is quite difficult, I don’t need to tell you. Good observation on the angle in a float tube. I had never thought about that

In salmon fishing, it is normal to "bow to the fish" by dropping the rod tip (not necessarily into the water) when he jumps.  With such large fish, it is prudent to reduce sudden shocks to the hook hold. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Hi Dennis, Nice to see you on this newsgroup.  Sounds like you had a nice day fishing!!! As you can see, I am fairly limited this year due to the leg but still plan on taking my trip to the Mill Hole on the Kettle River this Summer!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight.   My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Mike I wouldn’t think the rod or the angle has much to do with it.  Sunday, I couldn’t get a hookup or land a fish to save my life.  I think it has more to do with what the fish are taking.  Emergers and duns they have to rush, spinners and cripples they can take their time. Yesterday, they were feeding on spent trico spinners.  In retrospect, I should have been slower on the hook set.  I was probably yanking the fly out of their mouths’.  I know, it’s tough to slow down when you’re keyed for the strike.  The previous few times that I have been out, the fish were consistently taking duns and emergers and I missed only a few. Worth a try. Peter

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We have a different problem in the small streams in New Mexico and Colorado.  3 to 6 " small fish jump all over a dry fly and when you snap your wrist from the sudden and violent strike, the 3" to 6" small trout flies by your ear (right ear if right handed, etc.) and lands behind you.  We have found that these "flying" fish will shoot off when released so we assume they enjoy this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I’ve found that if you apply direct pressure when a fish is facing you, pullouts are much more likely.  I apply pressure to the side when a fish is facing me and try to get it turned and fighting away from me. This is especially true in streams and rivers where you want the fish fighting the current instead of using it to their advantage. Willi I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

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Hi Mike, How are you? Sounds like you haven’t given up FF! Either have I, got several 20 to 22 inch brookies and bows last Monday on the Connetquot River. It was a great day. As for fast vs slow rods. I like slow rods for casting drys and faster rods for streamers. As for loosing fish. I can loose as many fish on a fast rod as can on a slow rod. Still casting flies and telling lies. Dennis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<<I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. I have used my SP+ for two years now and haven’t ever felt I lost a fish due to the rod being too stiff until this particular weekend.  In fact, on rivers, it is my rod of choice. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I normally fish in my float tube. Sitting in the tube is similar to standing thus I haven’t had a problem hooking and keeping fish.  This occurance in the raft was just unique enough that I thought I would share it and see if anybody else has ever has this type of problem who wasn’t in a full leg brace and sitting at an angle in a rubber raft <grin The most likely cause was my sitting position combined with having a stiffer rod but I wanted to find out if anybody had ever run across trout who seemed to have really soft mouths like a Silver does.  This particular lake was just rehabilitated last year so this is a different gene pool of trout and it is possible that this is a genetic characteristic of the trout that were planted in the lake. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter much.  I had a great time and the one fish I did land was the largest of the year so I have nothing to complain about. Mike

Response:

I have seen people dunk the rod tip in the water to prevent the fish jumping. Never tried it myself preferring to keep the tension on the line as the fish jumps. That is quite difficult, I don’t need to tell you. Good observation on the angle in a float tube. I had never thought about that before. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool. Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

<<I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. I have used my SP+ for two years now and haven’t ever felt I lost a fish due to the rod being too stiff until this particular weekend.  In fact, on rivers, it is my rod of choice.   Like I mentioned in my previous post, I normally fish in my float tube. Sitting in the tube is similar to standing thus I haven’t had a problem hooking and keeping fish.  This occurance in the raft was just unique enough that I thought I would share it and see if anybody else has ever has this type of problem who wasn’t in a full leg brace and sitting at an angle in a rubber raft <grin The most likely cause was my sitting position combined with having a stiffer rod but I wanted to find out if anybody had ever run across trout who seemed to have really soft mouths like a Silver does.  This particular lake was just rehabilitated last year so this is a different gene pool of trout and it is possible that this is a genetic characteristic of the trout that were planted in the lake. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter much.  I had a great time and the one fish I did land was the largest of the year so I have nothing to complain about. Mike

Response:

I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.) I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I’ve found that if you apply direct pressure when a fish is facing you, pullouts are much more likely.  I apply pressure to the side when a fish is facing me and try to get it turned and fighting away from me. This is especially true in streams and rivers where you want the fish fighting the current instead of using it to their advantage. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight.   My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

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Question:

I think the biggest advantage of barbless hooks is its easier to get them out of your clothes, waders, and skin :<

drying patch, fly box and the other tunnels into the spiritual plane. TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert? : I don’t want to condone the spam-like message to "SAVE SEDONA" but : thought : I’d comment about the surrounding area. Sedona is about 5000′ elevation : and : to the north sits Oak Creek Canyon. The creek can produce some nice fish : (17" rainbow caught last weekend) and 18" browns caught earlier this : year. I’m amazed by this.  I’ve only been there in summer(once) and winter(once) but each time there was *so much* activity in the stream by little humans that I didn’t believe it was a viable fishing spot for anything larger than 10 inches. Is it possible you caught planted stock?  Is it possible you are engaging in the oldest fishing pastime and stretching things a wee bit? : A 10 mile drive up the canyon will put you in the largest ponderosa pine : forest : in the U.S. at about 7000′ elevation (Yes it does snow in Arizona!!!). : Living only : 30 minutes away from the creek makes it a popular after work flyfishing : spot for : me. I wasn’t putting the area down, only trying to tone down the rhetoric which follows many tourist centers:  "We have everything, and it’s great!" I love the Sedona area for what it is… a wonderful desert area fairly close to respectable (if picked clean) mountains.  The area surely has much to offer, but my limited experience suggests it is not a destination fly fishing area.  I admit, I fished the lower parts of the creek, and there, the water seemed too warm to support large fish.  (Perhaps I should fact the fact I can only catch larger fish in water I know.)  I’m surprised to learn the humans haven’t scared the fish away. —

Rick, I’m not claiming Oak Creek is place to go catch large fish on a regular basis. In fact, 8 to 10 inch fish are the norm. On those rare occasions, some larger fish can be caught.  No way as far as planted stockers go (we affectionately call those things finless wonders here in AZ). I’ve been known to stretch the truth on some occasions. This weekend (at Oak Creek) I landed a brown that I thought went 15". Actual measurement was just over 14" (using the lettering on my flyrod). Even if I was off on the other fish a 17" brown and 16" rainbow aren’t bad for Oak Creek. As far as people pressure goes you’re right. I’ve had some tough days due to the number of tourists, hikers, swimmers, etc on the creek. So I fish it real early and stay away from the campgrounds (6am – 10am I didn’t see a soul on the creek this weekend). If you ever wander through Sedona again stop by the store at Don Hoel’s cabins. They have some pictures from the 1960’s to the late 1980’s showing browns in the 21-25 inch range. There may not be alot of those big hogs in Oak Creek now-a-days but I know where a few lay. Jeff Anderson http://www.woolybugger.com

Response:

: : Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert? : I don’t want to condone the spam-like message to "SAVE SEDONA" but : thought : I’d comment about the surrounding area. Sedona is about 5000′ elevation : and : to the north sits Oak Creek Canyon. The creek can produce some nice fish : (17" rainbow caught last weekend) and 18" browns caught earlier this : year. I’m amazed by this.  I’ve only been there in summer(once) and winter(once) but each time there was *so much* activity in the stream by little humans that I didn’t believe it was a viable fishing spot for anything larger than 10 inches. Is it possible you caught planted stock?  Is it possible you are engaging in the oldest fishing pastime and stretching things a wee bit? : A 10 mile drive up the canyon will put you in the largest ponderosa pine : forest : in the U.S. at about 7000′ elevation (Yes it does snow in Arizona!!!). : Living only : 30 minutes away from the creek makes it a popular after work flyfishing : spot for : me. I wasn’t putting the area down, only trying to tone down the rhetoric which follows many tourist centers:  "We have everything, and it’s great!" I love the Sedona area for what it is… a wonderful desert area fairly close to respectable (if picked clean) mountains.  The area surely has much to offer, but my limited experience suggests it is not a destination fly fishing area.  I admit, I fished the lower parts of the creek, and there, the water seemed too warm to support large fish.  (Perhaps I should fact the fact I can only catch larger fish in water I know.)  I’m surprised to learn the humans haven’t scared the fish away. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: there, the water seemed too warm to support large fish.  (Perhaps I should : face the fact I can only catch larger fish in water I know.)  I’m : surprised to learn the humans haven’t scared the fish away. I forgot to mention the obvious: I stand corrected. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: there, the water seemed too warm to support large fish.  (Perhaps I should : face the fact I can only catch larger fish in water I know.)  I’m : surprised to learn the humans haven’t scared the fish away. I forgot to mention the obvious: I stand corrected.

and those neoprenes show every bulge too… ohhh…COrected…! My mistake ! TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert? : I don’t want to condone the spam-like message to "SAVE SEDONA" but : thought : I’d comment about the surrounding area. Sedona is about 5000′ elevation : and : to the north sits Oak Creek Canyon. The creek can produce some nice fish : (17" rainbow caught last weekend) and 18" browns caught earlier this : year. I’m amazed by this.  I’ve only been there in summer(once) and winter(once) but each time there was *so much* activity in the stream by little humans that I didn’t believe it was a viable fishing spot for anything larger than 10 inches. Is it possible you caught planted stock?  Is it possible you are engaging in the oldest fishing pastime and stretching things a wee bit?

Is it possible you were huffin’ some Sedona Red ? TimW

Response:

Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert?

I don’t want to condone the spam-like message to "SAVE SEDONA" but thought I’d comment about the surrounding area. Sedona is about 5000′ elevation and to the north sits Oak Creek Canyon. The creek can produce some nice fish (17" rainbow caught last weekend) and 18" browns caught earlier this year. A 10 mile drive up the canyon will put you in the largest ponderosa pine forest in the U.S. at about 7000′ elevation (Yes it does snow in Arizona!!!). Living only 30 minutes away from the creek makes it a popular after work flyfishing spot for me. That’s my 2cents worth. Jeff Anderson http://www.woolybugger.com

Response:

Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert?<

Yee who doesn’t know shouldn’t open his mouth.  Seeing is believing. dp

Response:

: !!! SAVE SEDONA !!! : HELP US SAVE SEDONA : If you support Fishing Opportunities, Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Rick, Visit Sedona someday and you will find a lovely little desert town with a very nice river running through it (to borrow a phrase).   Besides, anyone who lives in "Moscow" should not cast stones at other places.   Dave — Dave http://avery.med.virginia.edu/~dcb/home.html David C. Benjamin, Ph.D., Professor               Office (804) 924-2631 Beirne B. Carter Center for Immunology Research   Lab    (804) 982-1679 MR4 Box 4012, University of Virginia Health       FAX    (804) 924-1221 Sciences Center, Charlottesville, VA 22908        Email

Response:

: !!! SAVE SEDONA !!! : HELP US SAVE SEDONA : If you support Fishing Opportunities, Umm… Bud?  Isn’t Sedona, like, in the desert?   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

!!! SAVE SEDONA !!! Thank you for taking the time to read my post … I REALLY NEED YOUR HELP! My name is Rama and I am the owner of the only REAL bikeshop (Mountain Bike Heaven) in Sedona AZ and I need your help! The local Forest Service folks are having their final meeting at 9AM tomorrow morning (9/4) to accept final public input on the new management plan =93Ideas for the Future=94. One of the proposals included in the =93Ideas for the Future=94 are more lands trades within our surrounding area.  Here=92s the way it works, the Forest Service gives a chunk of our local Forest to a developer and the developer hands them cash and a deed to some unknown piece of land.  Of course, the Forest Service always tells us these =93deals=94 are always for the =93best interests=94 of all concerned parties.   The problem is they (USFS) keep trading away all our local hiking, biking, equestrian and nature opportunities. WE DONT NEED ANY MORE DEVELOPMENT! Our local infrastructure is already at the boiling point trying to cope with too much growth: no sewers, no roads, no phones … HELP US SAVE THE FORESTS! HELP US SAVE SEDONA If you support Hiking Opportunities, If you support Biking Opportunities, If you support Camping Opportunities, If you support Climbing Opportunites, If you support Fishing Opportunities, If you support Equestrian Opportunities, If you support any Outdoor Opportunity, If you like Sedona, If you like Arizona If you like the Forest, If you like Nature … Write your own letter or copy and mail the passage below.  I will take your email to the meeting tomorrow and we will show the Forest Service that we don=92t want anymore land trades.  Thanks for your help. Dear Forest Service Folks, I am opposed to ALL land trades in and around the Sedona area.  Please register my opinion and take it into consideration as you construct your =93Ideas for the Future=94 …         Name …         Age …         State …         City …         Country … Thanks for your Support!   Thanks for your help! RAMA BTW … when you=92re in Sedona stop by my shop "Mountain Bike Heaven" in West Sedona and say Hi! If I have some time maybe we can go for a ride. Wait, I have regularly scheduled FREE group rides on Wed, Sat and Sun — I can always ride then … Have Fun! is at http://www.ibike.com/mountainbikeheaven/index.htm

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Question:

The show is scheduled for September 11-14. In years past, Organizers, Etc. (800 283-2754) have helped attendees with travel and lodging reservations. You might give them a call for details.

Response:

Hello Simon: Contact the staff of the International Fly Tackle Dealer Show at: PO Box 370 Camden, ME 04843 Clay

Response:

I am very keen to attend the Denver Fly Fishing Trade Show in September. Could someone please furnish me with details.

The organization behind the promotion of this show is Fly Rod & Reel Magazine.  Their address is:         Fly Rod & Reel              PO Box 370              Camden, Maine 04843 You can also send E-Mail from their home page at: http://flyfishers.com/fly-rod-reel.html Regards, Trent P Roberson          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Response:

I am very keen to attend the Denver Fly Fishing Trade Show in September. Could someone please furnish me with details.

You can write Fly Tackle Dealer Magazine at Box 370 Camden, Maine 04843. You can probably e-mail Fly Rod and Reel (same group) through their web site (sorry, don’t know the Domain Name).    -Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

Response:

Question:

Just bought a copy of Farrow Allen-Dick Stewart’s  book, Trout flies. It’s far and away obove the ORVIS book I’ve been using! Can’t get better pictures and descriptions…worth all of the 55$ Canadian I paid. Think of it. That’s only about 39.95$ US….. and what the hell has happened to our $. It’s no wonder we’re getting poorer. You USA residents cannot get a better vacation deal than coming to Canada. It’s a bargain when you use  US dollars! Not just the fishing but the meals, hotels etcetera. Hell, I went to Scotland this year and paid the equivalent of 150$US for a bed and breakfast! Nice, mind you but very pricey by comparison. No doubt in my mind, the best deals anywhere in the world are right here in North America and in particular.. Canada!

Response:

Sounds pretty good!  How do I get a copy, I can’t find it in my local fly-fishing shop?

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