Question:

This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills. I have a few ’secret’ spots for coldwater fishing in Massachusetts, but there’s nothing secret on weekends.  I usually wait until Tuesday or Wednesday to go stream fishing, to give the fish a chance to recover from the weekend beating they take, and to avoid the crowds.  And if it’s raining, so much the better.  It’s like getting a tennis court back in the seventies during the tennis craze.  The only time you could get court time was when it was raining. So, I pass on the crowded streams, and go bluegill fishing.  That’s actually a misnomer: we have lots of panfish species, and it’s not possible to target one particular species, and there’s a lot of interbreeding, so it’s often hard to know what you’ve caught.  But the bluegills are the predominant species in most of the ponds I fish and so get the mention. Jimmy and I ‘found’ this pond about 5 years ago.  Note the Massachusetts use of the word found.  You don’t find anything around here that hasn’t been found by a couple hundred thousand people before you.  But this pond just happens to be about half way between our homes, and we decided at the last minute one evening several years ago, that all of our usual choices were too far for at least one of us, and we opted to meet in the middle to check out Ninemile.  Now we’re regulars. I have a long term fascination with developing the ultimate fly to use on Ninemile.  The pond has a small number of mayflies and caddis, but the predominant species are midges and the dragon and damselflies that feed on them.  We’ve done really well over the years using damselfly nymph imitations and the Ausable Wullf which I think looks like an emerging damselfly.  I did really well one night a few years ago with a floating damsel tied by Charlie Wilson for the 2000 Great Roff Flyswap http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=FS2000&id=23 Since then I’ve been experimenting a lot with foam and this year I’ve been using variants of Gartside’s Gurgler.  Up until last Friday I had been experimenting with colors and tails and bodies trying to come up with something easy to tie, visible, durable (able to stand up to a couple hundred fish…), and successful.  Yesterday I made a breakthrough, and moved away from damsel imitations:  I made the Gurgle Frog.  If you’re in the DDFS 2002 swap, you’ll be getting one in the mail in a couple of weeks. The fly is extremely simple: a pair of grizzly hackles for a tail (tied splayed out to the sides – they pulse like legs when you pop the fly), chartreuse Estaz for the body, and green foam for the back and gurgler head. You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html I caught 4 different species of fish last night, including a big white perch that jumped out of the lily pads as it grabbed my fly.  I got pictures of a couple of really beautiful fish: a bluegill and a pumpkinseed.  If you were ever confused by panfish identification, the pics should show the difference (at least in the males). http://gula.org/images/bluegill.jpg http://gula.org/images/pumpkin.jpg –Stan

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flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills.

This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale

The generic name for all panfish here in the Connecticut Valley is ‘kivvers’.  ’Brim’ is the edge of your coffee mug<g. I can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months… –Stan (taking ‘frugal yankee’ to the next level)

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Stan wrote :snipI can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months…

I find that these flies are extremely durable and is I tie my knots well( a big if) and I don’t stick them in a tree, they will catch hundreds of fish, but I give most of them away and I also use that hook for tying skinny water clousers and Richard Hart’s Ghost Minnows as well. I also use all three patterns in salt water with those hooks and simply throw them away at the end of the day. Both the skinny water clousers and the ghost minnows are tied so sparsely that they don’t last long. I only tie simple guide type flies that catch lots of fish. Still most of the flies that I tie are given away to kids who watch me tie. It is a hell of a lot of fun. Big Dale Big Dale

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This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills.

…and that’s as well written a beginning to a tall tale as ol sam clemens could ever hope to deliver as an introduction to his fine and special journeys. thanks for letting me tag along.  it’s interesting to see the different coloring of panfish, and the bream, bluegills and crappie. those i’ve managed to surprise down here in nc have been as much fun to catch and admire as the bass and trout… plus, i usually can enjoy refreshments *during* the adventure. jeff

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This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills. I

        maudlin.         your friend in the old north state wayno

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[flowery prose snipped] You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html

Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up? tia /daytripper (Chillin’ on the Merrimack)

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You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up?

Not immediately – I only tied two and I hung mine in a tree and Jim lost his in the weeds.  I’ll tie up some fresh ones later today (I committed to tying 17 for the swap) and I’ll try to take a picture.  Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode (but I’m getting better at it).  I’m using Dave Price’s suggestion of using a gallon milk jug as a diffuser and putting a few hundred watts of light around it.  All I have to figure out is how to give the autofocus a bigger target.  One of my sample fly photos is at: http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=DD2001&id=9 –Stan

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Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode

How is the A40 on ‘grinning doofus’ shots? I’m thinking about getting one to take to the Henry’s Fork (in addition to my CoolPix 880) primarily because Canon makes a waterproof case for the A40 so I could carry it safely on stream. Thanks. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up? Not immediately – I only tied two and I hung mine in a tree and Jim lost his in the weeds.  I’ll tie up some fresh ones later today (I committed to tying 17 for the swap) and I’ll try to take a picture.  Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode (but I’m getting better at it).  I’m using Dave Price’s suggestion of using a gallon milk jug as a diffuser and putting a few hundred watts of light around it.  All I have to figure out is how to give the autofocus a bigger target.  One of my sample fly photos is at: http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=DD2001&id=9 –Stan

Assuming you respect the focusing range of the camera, the rest is all a matter of contrast. But you can create contrast where there is little. Use a ruler and a black magic marker to draw a bunch of bold, parallel lines across a section of smooth white card stock. Space the lines by about a 1/4". With the fly in the vise and your camera on the tripod, hold the card on the vertical plane and parallel to the hook shank, anywhere in the camera frame. Half-press the shutter release and hold it there while you remove the card, then fully press the shutter release. Even better, use your camera’s remote release (if it has one)  to take the shot, to avoid the shakes. Note that some cameras use vertical features in the fov to autofocus, while others may use horizontal features. That’s an easy experiment to conduct (or you may rtfm, of course cheers /daytripper (more than one way to teach them electronics…)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a ruler and a black magic marker to draw a bunch of bold, parallel lines across a section of smooth white card stock. Space the lines by about a 1/4". With the fly in the vise and your camera on the tripod, hold the card on the vertical plane and parallel to the hook shank, anywhere in the camera frame. Half-press the shutter release and hold it there while you remove the card, then fully press the shutter release. Even better, use your camera’s remote release (if it has one)  to take the shot, to avoid the shakes. Note that some cameras use vertical features in the fov to autofocus, while others may use horizontal features. That’s an easy experiment to conduct (or you may rtfm, of course

Good suggestion.  I was trying some similar things.  The A40 has an autofocus lock button so you can set the focus (maybe) and move things around a little.  Also has two auto timers for avoiding the shakes.  A very nice little camera.  Also has manual overrides for everything except the focus… Thanks. –Stan

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Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode How is the A40 on ‘grinning doofus’ shots? I’m thinking about getting one to take to the Henry’s Fork (in addition to my CoolPix 880) primarily because Canon makes a waterproof case for the A40 so I could carry it safely on stream. Thanks. — Charlie…

I really like the A40.  About the only negative thing I’ve read about it (and have experienced) is problems focusing on small items in macro mode (like flies…).  The fully auto mode makes pretty good picks for quick and dirty snapshots.  And it lets you manually set lots of things when you have the time.  Very easy controls. The waterproof case looks pretty bulky – and pricy. I also liked the Canon Elph S330.  It’s pretty similar for features, is smaller (truly pocket size), just slightly more money and also has a waterproof case option.  The only thing that pushed me to get the A40 was use of standard AA batteries so I can use off-the-shelf NiMH batteries. –Stan

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The waterproof case looks pretty bulky – and pricy. I also liked the Canon Elph S330.  It’s pretty similar for features, is smaller (truly pocket size), just slightly more money and also has a waterproof case option.  

Yeah, the case is a little bulky and pricey, but I hate to be in my kayak or on the water without a camera – and I seem to have misplaced my old Nikon Action Touch 35mm. I was able to handle the A40 case when I was in Tokyo last year and it’s not as bad as it looks in pictures, but definitely not ‘pocket sized’. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale The generic name for all panfish here in the Connecticut Valley is ‘kivvers’.  ’Brim’ is the edge of your coffee mug<g. I can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months… –Stan (taking ‘frugal yankee’ to the next level)

Here in PA, they’re all Bluegills and Crappie – pronounced ‘Crap’ (like the stuff in your waders on the worst day of your fishing life), unless you don’t like fishing for, catching & possibly eating ‘Crap’ in which case it’s pronounced ‘Crawppie’ or ‘Croppie’. Down in NC, where I first heard the term ‘brim’ – actually, I believe that it’s spelled BREAM (pronounced ‘brim’) – it seems to apply to all panfish except Crappie (regardless of pronunciation). I’ll also second the "can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model" sentiment.  DCWDFF, you must be one serious fly tyin’ maniac. Tom G never had that stuff in MY waders – yet

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one model" sentiment.  DCWDFF, you must be one serious fly tyin’ maniac.

Well, I do resemble that remark, but I must admit that it took me about three years to use the first thousand. All of those flies that I tied with them are very simple flies to tie, and all of the materials used in these patterns are very inexpensive. Big Dale

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<snipped post which was repeated 6 times Well if you tie flies like you post, you should go thru 1000 hooks a year easily.

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MY waders – yet obviously, you’ve not *yet* experienced a louie laplac breakfast…  it’s only a matter of time, so i’d recommend practicing speedy stream exits and wader drops… might wanna carry a roll of tp as well… the process of wetting and using your t-shirt puts some folks off… jeff

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MY waders – yet obviously, you’ve not *yet* experienced a louie laplac breakfast…  it’s only a matter of time, so i’d recommend practicing speedy stream exits and wader drops… might wanna carry a roll of tp as well… the process of wetting and using your t-shirt puts some folks off…

Some of us use socks……evidently this is not as off-putting.        :) Wolfgang who rests content in leaving some things behind.

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Some of us use socks……evidently this is not as off-putting.        :)

…i knew that damn thing i shook outta those socks was a corn kernel… Wolfgang who rests content in leaving some things behind.

having changed diapers of infants with serious "leaving behind" problems, squishy socks ain’t a problem… <g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said! ) — Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

I’m Welsh, and from your comments – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!)

They invented tape? ,      - Ken

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Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said!

ROTFL — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG

Well, I live about half an hour from Carmarthen Town, of course the county is considerably larger. Thomas is quite a common name in Wales, though I’m surprised to hear the name Tristram as far back as 1634. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where?

Before 1929, when the last was reported (as of that edition).  There were cases, 1 in Mexico and 1 in Canada, in the fifties that resulted in border quarantines.  If there were experiments with it pre-1975 and let’s say, for argument’s sake, post Dien Bien Phu, I’d suspect these were to release on SE Asia to mess up the buf population.  I just don’t see it being as that big an issue in the US (well, really, as a current naturally-active virus, anywhere in the Americas, a few parts of SA excepted, and as a weapon, the possible exception of parts of Mexico and CA) anymore.  Plus, it can be vacc’ed out. There are numerous reasons UK and Continental herds seem to get hit with this type of thing (or MCD, etc.), and some of it herd management practices, but some is space-related, and perhaps surprisingly, some is actually caused by the EU and politics. IMO, ranching practices in the Americas are such that it could and would be quickly contained because it would start and initially remain highly localized.  It could be economically bad for industry segments, but it wouldn’t cause a total collapse of the food supply, nor a strain on the agricultural output because of the extremely limited use of working cattle. TC, R

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Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

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Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have?

Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – I sent you an email in response, but our ISP was purchased by Prodigy, and we have been going through the "take-over" process, so I’m not 100% certain of what gets to me or out on this account. Anyway, I had some questions and possible info, so when I can get back to the msg. I sent, I’ll resend.  Basically, it appears similar, but it was hard to tell, sorry.  IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.  As of yet, I haven’t gathered any real history on mine.  Was your dad able to shed any further light on yours? Along the same, er,  "lines" <G:  Willi, if you read this, where are we on the "conversation" resend and have you gotten the NL from OGJ? I hadn’t heard either way. TC, R

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As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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"Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe. The only thing that really surprises me is that we do not have a lot more of the same, especially considering the conditions and circumstances in which other animals are kept and raised.  To call this "farming" is a sad joke. Perhaps our tofu days are nearer than we think? TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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Bill, my dad has said that his side of the family are of Welsh/Irish decent. I believe it was my paternal Grandmother’s family.  They are Thomas’.  My paternal Grandfather was a Bowen–as, DUH– and they were from Ireland.  Do you know any Thomas’?  I believe we are descended from the Christopher Thomas line.  Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG Mark Harrington Bowen  a/k/a The Postmaster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Dad said he believed that the wallet came from either England or Scotland, due to the no. marking and that he believed it to have been made about the same time period as you stated for yours. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – –snippage… IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.   TC, R

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writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle.

I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly.

HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax?   TC, R

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The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation. — Wayne (not that I have any knowledge of such development or dispersement experiments) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax? TC, R

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The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation.

Um, are we talking WWI here (seriously)?  I can’t imagine using this virus, even "hopped" up (well, I guess it depends HOW hopped up).  I understand it just isn’t all that bad in its er, untampered-with form, as B/C’s go, and its danger in humans is even less than in bovine/ovine/equine pops.  It is basically non-existent in the US – most current RM texts that I have only give it a mention at best, but a early sixties edition of "Stockman’s" talks of 9 cases being reported in the US up to that point.  To the best of knowledge, I’ve never even seen it, in the US or otherwise.  It would seem its damage is mostly herd economics, rather than "danger" in the "mad cow" sense. TC, R

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With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

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Practically all fishing is closed as of now. Most waters are closed, and will remain so for some time.  Access to farmland etc is also extremely restricted. Many measures are being implemented to prevent the spread of the disease. Experience suggests that most will be ineffective. This is unfortunate, but a fact. Attempting to stop the spread of such viral diseases in this day and age of extremely high traffic in all directions is more or less impossible. Transport mechanisms for these diseases are in any case not fully understood. If you need more info on this, there is plenty flying around.  Specific fishing info may be obtained from the groups: uk.rec.fishing.coarse uk.rec.fishing.game uk.rec.fishing sea One assumes that special disinfectionary measures will be introduced in many places, as is already implemented at channel crossings etc. Trucks are obliged to drive through disinfection troughs etc etc. Whether such measures prove effective is a moot point. It remains to be seen whether America and other countries implement specific measures. TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

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Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where? — Wayne (just guessing at these dates and possible derivative strains) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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Mike, we are all party to the development of cheap food production procedures, even unwittingly. I am not convinced that this is the problem at all. Frequent transportation IMO is more likely: why do sheep need to be transported to Germany, then on to Belgium and from there to Italy.? This is madness. Surely the most economical method would be to kill near origin and ship as carcases? It would remove all the suffering, too. Or does transportation attract a subsidy? I know for a fact that car panels, made in Shropshire are shipped to Italy for labelling, then reimported to the UK because they then gain a subsidy. What about all the pollution caused by the lorry transprot over those distances? All unneccessary. All part of the EC madness. Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe.

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Question:

Being somewhat of a vest freak, (along with several alternatives, the best of which is a chest halter with a couple of packs on it), at the last count, which was about five minutes ago, I owned 31 separate purpose built vests, jackets, halters, creels, and related equipment.

31 vests, etc., indeed. Take a look at: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/page1/connor/con… Mike looks like a desperate deserter from the Vietnam War. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Whiner. I wear a Columbia Sportswear vest I bought at the outlet center for under $20. It has zip-off fleece sleeves, so when it’s cool I can wear a fairly tight fleece vest under the fishing vest, then zip on /zip off/add/remove layers all I want. My .02. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guys.  Thanks for the (fewer than I’d hoped) opinions on vests. Somehow, I thought the thread would have generated a lot more discussion.

Response:

I wear an Orvis Battenkill Pro Guide Vest.   It was one of the few vests available in my size, XXXL  (I’m 6′4+ and 300Lbs+)  It is also big enough that I can layer clothing under it, and light enough that it doesn’t bother me wearing it all day long.  There’s plenty of space for everything I carry with me including some bulkier items such as a rain poncho, bottled water, a spare reel and spare spools. Of course the fact that I have no other vests, nor have I ever worn another,  I can’t comment on how it compares to any others…..  but it has worked thus far for this (large) newbie. Joshua – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Guys.  Thanks for the (fewer than I’d hoped) opinions on vests. Somehow, I thought the thread would have generated a lot more discussion. Generally, everyone here has strong opinions on damn near everything.  I’m surprised everyone was so quiet about vest opinions.  I guess I should have said I was going to wear the vest in a burned wilderness area and wanted to look good when pilots checked me out with their binoculars:) Bob Skinner    Buffalo, WY —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Being somewhat of a vest freak, (along with several alternatives, the best of which is a chest halter with a couple of packs on it), at the last count, which was about five minutes ago, I owned 31 separate purpose built vests, jackets, halters, creels, and related equipment. Most of it is really excellent for one specific purpose, and just about useless for all others, or is at the best a severe compromise, for a whole variety of reasons. On reflection, the inevitable result is that no matter what I put on, it has some disadvantage owing to the  weather, water depth, ease of access, tackle carrying capacity, weight, lack of pockets, surfeit of pockets, etc, etc, or simply personal comfort, at the venue where I eventually arrive, after hours of agonising what to wear, and extremely difficult decisions about what I absolutely have to take along. This unfortunate situation is considerably exacerbated when I visit a new venue, and do not know what I might need, mainly because there are not many pockets big enough to accommodate a kitchen sink. My best overall fishing clothing is a GoreTex SAS camouflage jacket, but this is not suitable for use in very warm weather, when "full", ( the relatively little known "Connor

Question:

You don’t need much heat at all on the finished blank, so a hair dryer just might do it. An alcohol lamp might introduce burn marks. Steam from a kettle works but takes a long, long time.

Would a miniature version of wood benders’ steam tunnel, say made of a stick of PVC, work?  It seems it could be built from stuff at Home Depot/Lowe’s and Dollar General/Walmart for 10-15.00. HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Steve Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?. Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

PVC is a thermoplastic. If you heat it up it will deform. If you want to do something like this use steel or copper pipe. Although not all that much heat is required for straightening bamboo, a hair dryer is not usually powerful enough.  The heat guns originally mentioned are best for this purpose. They are available cheaply at DIY markets etc.  They are commonly used for stripping paint, welding plastics etc.    Try the gun on its lowest heat setting on some scrap bamboo before attempting to straighten any rods with it.  The guns produce more than sufficient heat to scorch the bamboo. The guns are also advantageous, as you can straighten a fairly small section relatively easily, and the heat is only applied to this section.  A pipe oven will of course apply heat to everything in it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Would a miniature version of wood benders’ steam tunnel, say made of a stick of PVC, work?  It seems it could be built from stuff at Home Depot/Lowe’s and Dollar General/Walmart for 10-15.00.

Yeah, but then a heat gun is only $25.00 and has a host of other uses. –Steve

Response:

….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,…

Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

Not certain what other info I can give, however; the guides on both tips are snake eyes and not rings. The thread wrappings are tan center with a small strip of black on either end. The hook keeper is on of those loose rings, kind of like a mini-keychain ring the tip on the longest is a simple, but common, tip, much like the tips on some production rods.  the tip on the shortest is larger, and has a reddish ring insert (plastic?), it certainly looks like something that would have gone on a spinning rod but there are snake eyes on the same tip.

This doesn’t sound like a combo to me, and it sounds "un-Japanese" for some reason…maybe the color combo? All of the snake eyes that survived are black with age and neglect.

What color are the ferrules?  Are you sure the aren’t meant to be black, i.e., are the "black" but smooth, or are they obviously "black with age"? All of the ferrules have remmenents of what appears to be a age yellowed lacquer there is a metal winding check at the top of the handle that matches smoothly into the taper of the handle that is yellowed with lacquer as well, it almost looks gold.

Again, it just sounds "un-Japanese"…. There is no writing anywhere and nothing that looks like it ever might have been the location of a decal or such.

I have some well-known maker rods (early) with no markings except for reel hardware and "turnings" on metal parts, if that helps… I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah)

There are no missing Sage bamboos (that was a joke), but there are rods, completed and incomplete/uncompleted, by many fine makers out there undiscovered, and I’d not tamper with it until you have a better idea of what you have. thanks for the info, if I can get my hands on a digital camera I’ll see if I can get some pics to post somplace for a fuller appraisal. Flyfish

HTH? R

Response:

Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

I thought the alcohol lamps were for putting the tip on and getting rid of any fluff or loose ends on the wraps. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

You don’t need much heat at all on the finished blank, so a hair dryer just might do it. An alcohol lamp might introduce burn marks. Steam from a kettle works but takes a long, long time. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?. Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

I went out to ebay, at the suggestion of someone else, and found some similar rods, but then I found a photo of a Horrocks-Ibbotson that was a dead ringer for the reel seat and handle up through the winding check. I’m assuming that I’ve identified the rod make and will proceed with my intentions to restore it. I took a copy of the photo and have posted it here http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout/0413rod2.gif it’s a pretty small picture but it worked. my handle isn’t anywhere near as clean but this is the same thing as mine Flyfish

Response:

The grampus rod that I had no box, just a cloth bag. It had the metal cap. The Grampus logo was a decal.

Response:

Didn’t get a box, I did get a very worn rod bag with a hole in it. The reel seat sounds the same. Will have to check out the book. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grampus rods almost always come with a flat holding box.Noone ever throws the box away because the box is the best part of the outfit.Check out Keanes book for a possible identification.Early Granger rods had sliding metal band reel seats.The bottom of the reel held in a fixed cap on the butt of the rod.Have fun with your project rod.For what you paid for it you can’t lose. Regards,Shawn

Response:

<Description snipped This doesn’t sound like a cheapo Japanese combo rod to me, from the colors (the ones I’ve seen are red, green, etc. "bright"), to the described workmanship, to reel seat and metal parts description and the tips.  I claim no expertise, but simply based on the desciption, I’d bet you have something on which you need to get an "eyeball" assessment.  It sounds like you may not have the Holy Grail, but you don’t have an old Dixie cup either… HTH? R

Response:

Grampus rods almost always come with a flat holding box.Noone ever throws the box away because the box is the best part of the outfit.Check out Keanes book for a possible identification.Early Granger rods had sliding metal band reel seats.The bottom of the reel held in a fixed cap on the butt of the rod.Have fun with your project rod.For what you paid for it you can’t lose. Regards,Shawn

Response:

Pick up the book Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook by Michael Sinclair, it will help you with restoration and identifying the rod. krombear how come it does’nt take fish twelve years to get an education

Response:

What color are the ferrules?  Are you sure the aren’t meant to be black, i.e., are the "black" but smooth, or are they obviously "black with age"?

the ferrules are a silvery metal color, tarnished here and there but very functional. where they join the blank they are fluted and have two grooves just above the fluting as a sort of decoration. they were at one time varnished/lacquered over and have some left on, quite yellowed with age, on the part closest to the blank. there is a small dot above the grooves, away from the blank, that looks like a hole had been drilled into the ferrule and filled with solder or a small nail etc. had been driven in and then cut flush. The snake eyes are black, I assumed they had aged to that color I can also see some rust on them. the butt section has one snake eye, and appears to be missing the stripping guide, if it ever had one, I’m not certain there every was one. Where I would expect to find it, I see what may have been a decorative wrap instead, with two tans 1/4" or so from  a larger black wrap in the center. Above the hook keeper is another set of decorative wraps a small tan, 1/4" of blank, then small black, anout 1/2" of tan, with small black and finally 1/4′ of blank to another small tan wrap. The middle section has no eyes left at all, but I can see where they were. The both tips appear to be intact and each has two snake eyes  on it. On all sections halfway between each guide is a small section of tan wraps, about 4-6 turns, basically splitting the distance as the rod tapers to the tip sections. The two tip sections appear to have the same taper and the wrap mentioned above is in the same place on each, although on the shorter one it’s no longer centered, it’s just below the tip section. This lends me to believe that it in fact was broken off at some point and this larger, cruder tip is a repair. This tip in fact looks to be slightly too large for the blank at that point and there is some discoloration on the blank at the bottom of it that looks like some slight overheating when the ferrule cement was applied. While the varinish on the wraps is all shot, and the wraps are loose and rotting, the finish of the rod is still very nice. it’s not peeling or flaking away anywhere and is intact along the entire length of the blank. It also looks like some base coloration was applied along with the finish, I can see what appear to be brush marks in the color on the blank. there are some dust motes in the finish and a few small chips but overall it looks as good, if not better than my regular working 5wt graphite. Looking again at the metal winding check at the top of the handle, it’s tapered from the handle down to the blank and it has two pairs of grooves turned into it, similar to those in the ferrules. It’s finished in a varnish or lacquer that has either yellowed with age or was colored to make this piece look gold. The actual reel seat is a friction type, not threaded, and appears to be aluminum but could be something else I suppose, the butt cap actually reminds me of my strubel nickel silver. Down where the wear on the reel seat isn’t so pronounced the tarnish is reminiscent of my old hand me down silver tea set, it has that dark tarnish look to it, but if it was a silvered reel seat most of it has worn off. There are a couple of small cracks in it, one where the reel seats into the buttcap and the other on the main metal part. The friction ring might not be aluminum as I tend to doubt it would have survived given some of the other wear I see on the rod. Aluminum would tend to be fairly soft would it not? The cork is moderately pourus but was shaped with care and it very regular in shape and sizing. It’s a basic cigar shaped handle. The blank itself is almost perfectly straight, each of the tip sections have very minor ‘bends’ but I’ve seen (lately as a matter of fact) Orvis graphites that were far worse. I doubt that I’ll bother trying to straighten these out. I have some well-known maker rods (early) with no markings except for reel hardware and "turnings" on metal parts, if that helps…

Well I’ve gotta say that this rod has been more interesting to me in the day I’ve had it, than most of what  I’ve been doing lately. Thanks for all the pointers for parts etc. and I’m off to look at what rec and snakeeye have to offer. Flyfish

Response:

Not certain what other info I can give, however; the guides on both tips are snake eyes and not rings. The thread wrappings are tan center with a small strip of black on either end. The hook keeper is on of those loose rings, kind of like a mini-keychain ring the tip on the longest is a simple, but common, tip, much like the tips on some production rods. the tip on the shortest is larger, and has a reddish ring insert (plastic?), it certainly looks like something that would have gone on a spinning rod but there are snake eyes on the same tip. All of the snake eyes that survived are black with age and neglect. All of the ferrules have remmenents of what appears to be a age yellowed lacquer there is a metal winding check at the top of the handle that matches smoothly into the taper of the handle that is yellowed with lacquer as well, it almost looks gold. There is no writing anywhere and nothing that looks like it ever might have been the location of a decal or such. I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah) thanks for the info, if I can get my hands on a digital camera I’ll see if I can get some pics to post somplace for a fuller appraisal. Flyfish

Response:

My vote is go for it. Who cares about the manufacturer info if this is the first rod you’ve ever restored? For best results you’ll want to (1) remove all of the guides, (2) sand the varnish from the blank, (3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section, (4) revarnish the blank and then (5) re-wrap and varnish the guides (some people do those last two steps in opposite order–either way works fine). I recommend replacing all of the guides and tiptops with black nickel Snake Brand guides–check out http://www.snakeguides.com. You’ll want to use size 00 or smaller silk thread for the wraps. Email me if you need help trying to find matching thread–otherwise any color would do–I’ll even let you borrow a spool if you’re not picky. If you want to replace the reel seat and cork, that’s a bit more difficult but can certainly be done by carefully cutting away the existing grip and using heat to break down the glue that holds the reel seat on. REC components (www.reccomponents.com) has those items at a decent price. You didn’t say how long the rod is, but I’m guessing it’s a 9-foot 7- or 8-weight rod. Probably quite heavy. Yet another option is to convert the 3-piece into a two-piece midge rod by attaching a new reel seat and small grip to the butt of the middle piece. Whether or not that configuration would cast well depends on the taper of the rod. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah)

Response:

I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days.

Contraire, the man spoketh the truth and gave the original gentleman very sage advice and history…. Wayne

Response:

I have seen a convertible bamboo rod. I found it in a dumpster. It was a Grampus, came in 4 or 5 sections, and the grip was reversable, so you could use it as a spinning rod or a fly rod. It was in excellent condition and was valued at $50 to $75. It was a pretty heavy rod. I gave it to a friend who wanted it. I’m tempted to defer to the resident "gearhead" but two tips, one 3" inches shorter, doesn’t seem to indicate a "combo" rod. Have you seen such a thing? Thanks, R  

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days.

Well, if it is such a Japanese rod, I have seen them at antique malls in new condition for around 50.00 to 75.00, HOWEVER, many old rods aren’t as readily marked as newer ones, and without further info, it would seem difficult to classify the rod described.  If the original poster would post more info, maybe ROFF could help determine exactly what it is.  Simply being bamboo does not mean good, but simply being not readily attributed by a novice to a specific maker does not mean "Japanese."  Further, I am personally aware that many experts disagree about what was or was not offered or made by many fine makers.  I would advise never dismissing a rod as "junk" or accepting a rod as "collectable" based on any unseen "guess" or even one single "eyeball" opinion. I wouldn’t think a 3" difference, with a seeming "break" would indicate a combo rod, but….? HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. Contraire, the man spoketh the truth and gave the original gentleman very sage advice and history…. Wayne

I’m tempted to defer to the resident "gearhead" but two tips, one 3" inches shorter, doesn’t seem to indicate a "combo" rod.  Have you seen such a thing? Thanks, R

Response:

I saw one of the Japanese Combo’s once.  A fellow I worked with said his grandfather had it made for him while in Japan just after the war (1950?). His setup came with separate sections for Fly and Spinner.  The fly guides were snake, but the spinner guides were the eye-ring type, for lack of better term.  Came in a wooden case.  Still had original lures in packs marked with Japanese writing. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. Well, if it is such a Japanese rod, I have seen them at antique malls in new condition for around 50.00 to 75.00, HOWEVER, many old rods aren’t as readily marked as newer ones, and without further info, it would seem difficult to classify the rod described.  If the original poster would post more info, maybe ROFF could help determine exactly what it is.  Simply being bamboo does not mean good, but simply being not readily attributed by a novice to a specific maker does not mean "Japanese."  Further, I am personally aware that many experts disagree about what was or was not offered or made by many fine makers.  I would advise never dismissing a rod as "junk" or accepting a rod as "collectable" based on any unseen "guess" or even one single "eyeball" opinion. I wouldn’t think a 3" difference, with a seeming "break" would indicate a combo rod, but….? HTH? R The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Question:

Today, I took Ron for his first Jet Boat Ride in the World’s Best Flats Boat ever built. (Not a humble opening, I agree) As we roared down river to the Blue Bridge (the idea was to blow all that dust out of that great Ford Redline Marine Engine into the atmosphere) at about 26 mph (gps perfect) I slowed down to show Ron some Big Horn Sheep and finally shut the engine down that was purring quietly so everything was in mutual agreement.  The river flowed along like quiet glass, a hawk screeched just once, and one of the baby lambs bayed.  Finally, a red winged black bird sang its short song off a willow as some of its limbs traced the surface of the river. I looked at the river, clean and pure and I explained to Ron how I was going to get some smart mouthed remarks about explaining how pollution free this jet boat, called "The Professional Guide Jet Boat" was in water.  He listen to my words thoughtfully while a trickling sound finally ceased. Ron zipped up and turned with a grin.  "Yep.  I know what you mean.  Too bad you and I aren’t as perfect as this boat." I roared in laughter, started the motor, and slowly applied power. ; ) god!  I love this place. — Mr. G. "Gink Keeps It Up" http://www.gink.com

Question:

I am looking to buy a used kick boat for fly fishing still waters mostly. It needs to be big enough to support aroud 300 lbs. Please email me directly if you have something you would consider selling. Michael Anderson THANKS!

Response:

Are you a large fat person?

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Question:

Big river, or small creek, with just enough fish to be challenging and *no* other people around is quality.  The rest is fluff.

Interesting concept.  I would partially agree with you in that the number of fish doesnt’ control the quality of the experience.  Where I would disagree with you is when you use a small number of fish present as a positive measure of quality.  You want to be challenged, avoid the easy pocket water where you know you can pick up twenty a day.  Control your behavior (no not you personaly, you as in all of us), protect the environment (insert your definition here), and the rest will take care of itself. phil

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snip

 If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" snip

I agree with the premiss that the excitement of fishing is the reuslt of not knowing whether you will catch fish on a given stretch of river on a given day.  It is those days when I struggle to catch fish that make my succesful days exciting and rewarding.  Those struggling days provide a definition of successful ones.  A good example of this was last spring when I was still working very hard to catch any fish on a dry fly.  I would fish all day and catch one or two small trout.  One day I hit a Hendrickson hatch that was unbelievable.  I stood in the rain on six foot wide stream throwing without a fisherman in sight and caught more 13-15" trout (that is a nice fish here in Minnesota) than I could count.  I know because at first I was counting.  I rememeber getting to 25.  At some point after twenty five I just stopped fishing.  It wasn’t dark yet and the fish were still biting but I stopped.  I was bored.  It was too easy. I fished that stream around 50 times last year.  I never had another day like that.  Still, the memory of that day and a possible repeat is what got me out of bed at 3:00am to drive 80 miles to that same stream.  I don’t think I would fish that stream if I caught fish like that every time.  I also don’t think I would fish that stream if it were packed with fishermen (I saw a total of two fishermen all year).  I think I would go somewhere more challenging and rationalize it by saying it had bigger fish or more exciting fish to fight or less people. Mike H

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserves to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the                                                     ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ appreciation to fade then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" I concur in this!  As I have said before, this is how I make my decision to stop fishing. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, ORSorry boys, BUT I WANT TO CATCH SO MANY FISH THAT I CAN’T REMEMBER ANY

OF THE "NORMAL" FISH, JUST ALL OF THE GIANTS. (I release most anyway!)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe there is one thing Tim and Myself may be able to agree on and I hope so can most other readers of this group. Quality; angling should be about quality. I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997 from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is probable, that a reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish. How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine

You’re going to get mad at me…in advance 8^)… My serious contention with C&R is just that.  It reduces the quality of the experience 10 fold.  What happiness is there in catching a fish in an area with a fish behind every stick ? or an angler around every bend ?   Big river, or small creek, with just enough fish to be challenging and *no* other people around is quality.  The rest is fluff. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine Ralph H

I agree. One steelhead is a great day.  Ten or twenty days of fishing between hookups makes that one fish even more rewarding. Even trout get boring if you don’t have the occasional day where nothing works, to help bring some mystery and questioning back to it. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserves to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the                                                          ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ appreciation to fade then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion"

I concur in this!  As I have said before, this is how I make my decision to stop fishing. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Internet Direct SNIP    I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997    from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead    "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is     probable, that a d reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in     excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled     angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish.    How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel    strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be    individually remembered and appreciated. SNIP    Ralph H Not to disagree with you in any way (I too worship steelhead), but it struck me as odd to see an article about Michigan Steelhead in a magazine called "Wild Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon".  They should start a magazine called "Introduced and Hatchery Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon" for this topic.  Though, I should say that I’ve never really understood the scope of this magazine anyway. cheers,         -tgades

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I believe there is one thing Tim and Myself may be able to agree on and I hope so can most other readers of this group. Quality; angling should be about quality. I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997 from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is probable, that a reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish. How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine Ralph H

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Question:

        Yellowstone lake opened yesterday but I was unable to drive past Lewis lake where the browns have been hungry. Fished for six hours from a float tube and landed about a dozen browns from fourteen to eighteen inches on wooly buggers. No big fish as yet but lots of fun with the little ones.         There are a few small brookies to be had on the west shore and an occcasioinal Mac as well. Scott Cole jackson, Wy. — S. Cole

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Thanks for the report, Scott. I gotta say that I don’t think of 14-18 inch trout as "little ones," but I’d sure like to fish in a place that would encourage that view. Best wishes.  Jeff

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Is Lewis Lake the main lake in Yellowstone?

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Is Lewis Lake the main lake in Yellowstone?

If what you mean is which lake is the biggest, it would be Lake Yellowstone.

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Lewis Lake is one of the major lakes in Yellowstone, but the main lake would have to be Yellowstone Lake.      Trey Monroe

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Lewis Lake is one of the major lakes in Yellowstone, but the main lake would have to be Yellowstone Lake.     Trey Monroe

Hi Trey I might add that Yellowstone Lake has been fishing good the past few weeks. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Lewis Lake is one of the major lakes in Yellowstone, but the main lake would have to be Yellowstone Lake.     Trey Monroe Hi Trey I might add that Yellowstone Lake has been fishing good the past few weeks. Tight Lines

Will be in Yellowstone in mid July and want to spend a half-day wade fishing either Lewis Lake or Yellowstone Lake.  Any suggestions about general shoreline areas that are suitable?  Techniques and or types of lines/flies to anticipate using? Thanks for your great postings!  J. Rice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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J Rice asks: Will be in Yellowstone in mid July and want to spend a half-day wade fishing either Lewis Lake or Yellowstone Lake.  Any suggestions about general shoreline areas that are suitable?  Techniques and or types of lines/flies to anticipate using?

I just returned from Yellowstone and Lewis Lakes.  Yellowstone edges are fishing great ,,, two anglers about 30 cutthroats apiece per day.  In mid-July you could be running into one of the most fun Green Drake hatches in the West….I’ll be there.  Stop at the Ranger shacks and talk about some spots.  Yellowstone Lake has over 100 miles of shoreline.  We take a boat to some secluded spots … been fishing there 10 years.  I see waders and float tubers within a mile of the two boat ramps … almost always doing quite well.  Yellowstone is a huge lake, tough to get crowded. Lewis is fishing fair now … will find lake trout, books and browns. Week ago, all were a little sparse….ice just went out a few weeks ago. I seldom see FF’er on the Lewis shores.   John G.<<

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                            FLY FISHING BOOKS                                  FOR THE                                 SPORTSMAN * The American Sportsman Treasury, ‘71, by Knopf.  A collection of Fly Fishing and Hunting stories, with terrific art work and photos.  Chapters on fly fishing for Brown and Rainbow Trout, fly patterns that produce results, bamboo fly rods; and hunting white tail deer, woodcock, water foul, mountain sheep, grouse, etc. All written by famous authors, eg. Charles F. Waterman, Lee Wulff, Leonard M. Wright, Roderick Haig-Brown, William G. Sheldon and many others. An excellent book for the all around sportsman, and a way to reflect on the sporting heritage. * The Treasury of Angling, ‘63 by Koller.  A comprehensive history of angling, and the birth and growth of fly fishing. Chapters on angling in antiquity, early american angling, tackle, flies, entomology, Salmon, Trout, Bass, and other fresh water fish.  Terrific photos and art work.  Learn about the history of fly fishing and game fish, and gain a full sporting knowledge of the art of fly fishing. E-mail me if interested in these books, and I will e-mail cost info. JWTrout/2/11/96

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I’m interested. Thanks, Wayne Lance

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Question:

Greetings    Feeling like I just walked into the middle of a messy divorce in this news group I would like to request some practical info.  Having purchased a cheapo blank and the necessary accessories for building it I am now wondering how exactly to find the "spine".      Secondly, and less specific, is the art (other than the fancy wraps and naugahyde reel seat) of building a "TRUE" rod in the location of the spine or some other mystical skill I don’t know of.  To be honest building up a blank seems to be a very simple process that can save some cash.  This makes feel like I’m missing something.? Thanks in advance for your help dan

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says… Greetings   Feeling like I just walked into the middle of a messy divorce in this news group I would like to request some practical info.  Having purchased a cheapo blank and the necessary accessories for building it I am now wondering how exactly to find the "spine".     Secondly, and less specific, is the art (other than the fancy wraps and naugahyde reel seat) of building a "TRUE" rod in the location of the spine or some other mystical skill I don’t know of.  To be honest building up a blank seems to be a very simple process that can save some cash.  This makes feel like I’m missing something.? Thanks in advance for your help dan

Building a rod is a bunch of little details all added together to make one good casting fly rod. Locating the spine is one of those details that will make your rod cast efficiently. Locate www site ‘fishdoc.com’ they have one of the best explainations on spine that I have seen, and lots of other good tips as well. Dennis Grant Atlantic Fly Fishing School Brookfield Nova Scotia

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I simply roll the blank against a smooth hard surface like a table, and feel where resistance increases.  That marks the spine.  Finding the spine leads to another question:  should you align your rod so the spine is on the side of the rod with the guides, or the opposite side?  Do you want the stiffness to help with your forward cast, or with picking your line off the water?  Although I’ve always aligned my in the forward direction, I’ve heard others suggest the opposite. Steve Hubbard

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