Question:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband.

In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

In my case I paid for the setting and we used a stone she had (grandmothers, perhaps? I don’t recall and it doesn’t matter). I didn’t get the setting back; she never offered and I never asked because I didn’t want it. The setting was indeed a gift from me to her so I feel I have no claims on it. I would not have accepted it if she had offered it to me. My ring was a custom piece of jewelry we picked out together, though I paid for it so technically it wasn’t a gift from her. I gave it back to her without thinking twice about it. The fewer things I have in my life that remind me of her the better.

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..

EVERYTHING comes from da man, silly girl!    (If you don’t believe me, ask Andre or Ronnie44dd.   Whattas a matter with you, anyway)?    :-)

Response:

Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

If he is this bad, you can’t leave your children to his care, I know it is tempting to get revenge on him but think of your children, they will suffer more if you went to prison.  Get out, and get your children out.  There are organisations for abused wives, get one on your side and have them help you work this out. Mandy

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!! He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

The real abuse here is the abuse that you did to yourself by staying so long.  I hope you can learn to love yourself as much as you deserve. bogey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. – It may be a good idea to buy a cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the corner and when they come to the house, then go to the house. Tell the police you need them to watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the loan amount. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send them a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on the mortgage and ruin your credit. The Car ======= If you each have a car, take the one that you use the most. If you have one car between you, the working spouse will generally get the car. Should you buy a new one? Generally, no, unless you just purchased a brand new car in the past year. Calculate the net worth of the car will help you. Net worth=Value of the car (get it from Kelly Blue Book on the web) – any loan outstanding. Here’s an example. Car A: bought 2 years ago, valued at $15,000, loan left is $13,000, so net worth is $2000. Basically, you have $13,000 in loans to pay off. If you can’t afford it, get a used car worth less than $13,000, say around $7000. Try to make small payments. This will cause you to pay more interest over the life of the loan, but you really need the cash right now. Car B: bought 5 years ago, valued at $5000, no loan outstanding. Net worth is $5000. This is the best deal, since you have no car payment in this case. Car C: new car bought last year, valued at $24,000, loan left: $25,000, net worth=-$1000. Even though this has a net worth, you still have $25,000 left in loans to pay. This is a bad deal because if you sell the car you will still have to pay $1000 to cover the loan and you will not get any money back because it has a negative net worth. Your best bet is to get a $7000 car, pay the extra $1000. Insurance for the used car will be less than for the new car anyway. What will make you look good to the judge: – If you are fair to the other spouse. (Divide assets equally. Don’t take their favorite baseball card collection just to be mean.) – If you don’t hit them, threaten them or damage their property. – If you don’t show bizarre behavior (like damaging the other’s property) – If you keep the spouse informed, like when you cancel the credit cards. – Getting the kids out of a violent home. (You must have PROOF of this violence as a recording, or police report.) What will make you look bad: – Not going to counseling when the spouse does. – Being unfair. – Being angry in court. – If you have a serious illness, like cancer, it will really reduce your chances to get the kids. – If you have a serious illness, like depression, which is not being treated, you will have a lesser chance to get the kids. – Doing drugs. – Having a police record. – Being known as the "one who’s always screaming" by the neighbors. – Having boy/girlfriends before the divorce is final. – Trying to hide assets from the spouse. – Having an affair during the marriage. (Shows lack of commitment.) – Not being real involved with the kids. – If you don’t have a job. – If you have trouble holding a job. Abuse claims Filing a false abuse claim is now illegal in some states, and it is even enforced sometimes. Find out the status of false abuse claims, perhaps by calling the police department. — "Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST

ME!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Response:

"DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

IF your children want to stay in the house regardless of the fact that he is mean to you then something is wrong. IF you want to stay in the house regardless of what HE is doing to YOU then there is something VERY WRONG!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these! SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

Huh?  How can you even think this about the man you just previously described? I think *you* would be abusive by letting him near your kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe he is abusing his children by not being here

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

Response:

I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!!  He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

I can not understand why you take all that shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Once again, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "abuse": Main Entry: abuse      Pronunciation: &-’by

Question:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.

Wayno & Michael, I’m good for any stretch you guys feel like. Upper, middle, or lower stretches suit me just fine. I do agree with you Wayne…upper-upper is tough and challenging not to mention just plain dangerous in felt shoes. I did it from edgemont up to 221 about a month ago…talk about mountain climbing. It was a rewarding trip….brookies ;^) Just give me a call/e-mail if you guys want to get together and fish sometime… preferably during/after leaf season…. –Walt

Response:

I        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!

Just recently so Wayne…. Back in December when the floods came through I managed to snag a renegade sparklin’ white 2.5 gallon American Standard on my 4 wt. It probably washed out of some floridiot’s, hmm, floron’s, hmm, Floridians vacation home. It did give me a bit of a tussle, what with the flood waters and all. But hell, I had #3 tippet on and managed to drag that thing on shore with a bit of wranglin. It was the first time my wife ever smiled when I brought my catch home, she didn’t mind cleanin’ that fish at all. Next day I installed it in the privvy and now have the extreme satisfaction of flushin my kaka directly downstream into Tennessee Ain’t ‘Merica wunnerful’ ?        later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.

give me a holler…one of my favorite streams…. –Flushin’ Wataugan Walt

Response:

For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.

Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Response:

I don’t like to be out on a stream flyfishing during deer hunting season either.  There is a river I fish during  hunting season which is on a game preserve.  Deer hunters don’t even camp in the area. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —    oink, oink.    wayno

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

        oink, oink.         wayno

Response:

I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.  

I know what you mean…it’s tough enough hauling my own ass outta’ there. On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are you saying that up stream of it is going to be posted to ?

yes…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off.

Response:

I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.   On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Walt, thanks for the clarification….not the best of news, but not quite as bad as I orginally thought.  Given the wild trout status on the upper,upper section and the amount of fishing pressure it is likely to receive combined with a lack of ‘migration’ up from the now closed section — it may not be able to sustain a large fishable population. It will probably decline until it gets so poor that the fishing pressure drops and a happy (unhappy?) equilibrium is reached at a low population of both trout and trout fishermen. Still not greatly excited over the delayed harvest section along Shulls Mill down into Valle Crucis from a habitat standpoint — but better this than wild trout — I don’t think this section would sustain a wild popolation from season-to-season from both a seasonal temperature and reproduction standpoint.  Not to mention the contributions from the ‘poop’ treatment plants.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

Oh! No!, Damn, Damn, and Damn!  How’d that happen without consulting the rest of us who fish that water!?  Reckon they’ll turn the "native" part above SR#1580 into catch and release or what?  I have caught many fish from the now "exclusive" waters but not a thing which had eyes on it below the 105 Bridge toward Valle Crucis.  Next thing they’ll do is to ban spitting Red Man in the water to chum the browns, while allowing the elite to continue to drop ashes from their Macanudos to draw rainbows . Mac McCaskill

Response:

Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!         later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

 (big spip) wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Response:

Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

Response:

Question:

A few years ago, Cabela’s had hip length stocking foot, in neoprene, and in lighter material.  You might try them. Kent in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Red Ball and Hogman make about 90% of all the waders…..  so its a good chance they make those according to the Specs dan BAiley wants see if he has a waranty…. heck since you like the price try em… if you hate em tell the NG and dan bailey.. let everyone know I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing.  I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok.  Are these any good? durable? crap?  Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper.

One thing to look at when comparing brands is the foot.  The type with the foot included as a single cut of material is more durable (and more expensive) than the type with the leg and foot cut as seperate pieces and then welded on. The first type has a single seam running down the front of the wader, around the foot and up the back (like a J split in half lengthwise).  The second type has a double seam (like a crossed "t") at the front of the ankle and again at the back of the ankle where the feet and legs are joined, and are prone to leak at those junctures.  They can make a lot more waders out of the same amount of material by cutting the foot and the leg as seperate pieces though, so they are cheaper. Orvis has a set of stocking foot supplex-nylon hippers (called the World’s Coolest) with the single seam for $54.  They are significantly more expensive than the Dan Bailey ones you inquired about, but the seams may be the reason. I’m not familiar with Dan Bailey’s version so I’m can’t say for sure.  Take a look at the seams of all those you’re considering, and check out the warranties that back them up.                                     Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing.  I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok.  Are these any good? durable? crap?  Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. One thing to look at when comparing brands is the foot.  The type with the foot included as a single cut of material is more durable (and more expensive) than the type with the leg and foot cut as seperate pieces and then welded on. The first type has a single seam running down the front of the wader, around the foot and up the back (like a J split in half lengthwise).  The second type has a double seam (like a crossed "t") at the front of the ankle and again at the back of the ankle where the feet and legs are joined, and are prone to leak at those junctures.  They can make a lot more waders out of the same amount of material by cutting the foot and the leg as seperate pieces though, so they are cheaper. Orvis has a set of stocking foot supplex-nylon hippers (called the World’s Coolest) with the single seam for $54.  They are significantly more expensive than the Dan Bailey ones you inquired about, but the seams may be the reason. I’m not familiar with Dan Bailey’s version so I’m can’t say for sure.  Take a look at the seams of all those you’re considering, and check out the warranties that back them up.                                     Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Howdy, Thanks all very much for responding. I thought what the heck and ended up purchasing the Flyweight Hippers. To respond to Dan, the foot on the waders is part of a single cut of material – with the single seam running down the front. The nylon isn’t that thick so I’ll have to be careful not to run into anything to sharp etc. Didn’t check the warranty or other products for that matter since I’m going embarking down to Southern Hemisphere for some ’summer’ fishing next week and just wanted to get something. You can be sure I’ll let you know if they turn out to be unsatisfactory. Cheers, Dean

Response:

Dean, It sounds like the hippers you chose have a foot construction similar to the Supplex Orvis hippers I own.  To prvent the boots from bunching around my feet, I taped them snug around my feet and ankles prior to putting my feet into neoprene booties and then wading shoes.  Don’t go anywhere without a roll of athletic tape. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy, Thanks all very much for responding. I thought what the heck and ended up purchasing the Flyweight Hippers. To respond to Dan, the foot on the waders is part of a single cut of material – with the single seam running down the front. The nylon isn’t that thick so I’ll have to be careful not to run into anything to sharp etc. Didn’t check the warranty or other products for that matter since I’m going embarking down to Southern Hemisphere for some ’summer’ fishing next week and just wanted to get something. You can be sure I’ll let you know if they turn out to be unsatisfactory. Cheers, Dean

Response:

Look at the Hook & Hackle catalog on the net.  They have stocking foot hippers by Red Ball and Hodgman.  I used a pair of Red Ball for years, and just sent for a pair of Hodgman’s to see if they were as good. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. Dean

Response:

        Dean, I bought a pair of neoprene stockingfoot hippers from LL Bean a couple of years back, and I’ve been happy with them. I’d used the old Red Ball Flyweights in years past and found them a bit lacking in the area of durability. True, the neoprene is a tad warmer, and a little more expensive, but I’m happy with them just the same. They have the advantage of being more comfortable in early season (cold water) than the flyweights, too.

Response:

I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

Red Ball and Hogman make about 90% of all the waders…..  so its a good chance they make those according to the Specs dan BAiley wants see if he has a waranty…. heck since you like the price try em… if you hate em tell the NG and dan bailey.. let everyone know – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for – hip length wader – must have stocking foot – must be lightweight/suitable for summer fishing. I see that Dan Bailey has a Flyweight Hipper for $32.50 which looks ok. Are these any good? durable? crap? Does anybody know whether there are other waders much better (e.g. Red Ball?)? I am extremely attracted to the price of the Bailey Flyweight Hipper. Any suggestions/feedback most appreciated. Thanks very much, Dean

Response:

Question:

I am looking for a graden hoe that is shaped like a diamond and the diamond part sits on the ground and you just push and pull it along the ground to get rid of the weeds . I think its called a Japanese weeding hoe.

Response:

I am looking for a graden hoe that is shaped like a diamond and the diamond part sits on the ground and you just push and pull it along the ground to get rid of the weeds . I think its called a Japanese weeding hoe.

  There’s a similar (and I think better) product knows as a swoe whose head looks a bit like a flattened golf club.  It was originally marketed (25 years ago) by Wilkinson Sword in an elegant one piece stainless steel version that I still have, but I havn’t seen that form in over a decade. A few years back I bought a friend a heavier and less elegant version from one of the mail order catalogs.  It’s meant to slide back and forth under the soil like what you describe, but the one sided design is less likely to lop off the wrong plant. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

Question:

My mother-in-law is moving to Superior, Montana (about sixty miles west of Missoula), and will be living right on the Clark Fork.  Am I right that this is a pretty good flyfishing river? (Please forgive my ignorance.) I figure that since I’ll be spending some time out there, I might as well take advantage of the fishing.  The thing is, though, I’ve never flyfished moving water and know very little about it. Years ago I used to do quite a bit of flyfishing in lakes in British Columbia, Canada.  And I used to tie all my own flies. I’d be obliged if someone might be able to answer a few questions for me regarding that stretch of river: First and foremost, what flies should I be tying and in what sizes? What kind of gear should I use?  (Double taper or weight forward line? Floating or sinking?  What weight?) Also, if anyone could recommed a book on flyfishing rivers and streams, particularly anything specific to Western Montana, I’d appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any help, Philip

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother-in-law is moving to Superior, Montana (about sixty miles west of Missoula), and will be living right on the Clark Fork.  Am I right that this is a pretty good flyfishing river? (Please forgive my ignorance.) I figure that since I’ll be spending some time out there, I might as well take advantage of the fishing.  The thing is, though, I’ve never flyfished moving water and know very little about it. Years ago I used to do quite a bit of flyfishing in lakes in British Columbia, Canada.  And I used to tie all my own flies. I’d be obliged if someone might be able to answer a few questions for me regarding that stretch of river: First and foremost, what flies should I be tying and in what sizes? What kind of gear should I use?  (Double taper or weight forward line? Floating or sinking?  What weight?) Also, if anyone could recommed a book on flyfishing rivers and streams, particularly anything specific to Western Montana, I’d appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any help, Philip

Yeah…it’s ok fishing.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone ever been up to Packer Lake in the Sierras? It was mentioned along with Upper and Lower Sardine Lakes.  I’ve been to those.  Stocked regularly… boats with electric motors… cabins next door.  Is Packer the one over the ridge and down in the valley? I think probably a couple mile hike.  How does it fish? jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

I would fly fish the Gold lakes basin in June or Oct. In August the fish are usually pretty deep. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Fished Packer Lake several years ago. Tough lake to fish unless youi know it well. Stay with lower Sardine in the evenings. Stocked with lots of nice trout and a beautiful lake.

Response:

Has anyone ever been up to Packer Lake in the Sierras? It was mentioned along with Upper and Lower Sardine Lakes.  I’ve been to those.  Stocked regularly… boats with electric motors… cabins next door.  Is Packer the one over the ridge and down in the valley? I think probably a couple mile hike.  How does it fish? jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

Response:

Sorry I’m brain-dead this a.m.  These lake where mentioned in "FishFirst"’s report… Sorry for the confusion.  It’s Friday and I’ve only had one cup of coffee (so far) today. jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

Response:

Question:

In order to bring my Web pages re/sourcing information for fly fishing up to date, I would like to fine tune SOFTWARE TOPICS. I am interested in availabe software dealing with fly fishing topics, specifically, fly tying, casting techniques, fishing and fly logs, fly catalogs, tide and weather information, etc. If you can point me to the correct E-Mail or URL locations for any such programs you might be aware of, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for providing me the information.          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Response:

In order to bring my Web pages re/sourcing information for fly fishing up to date, I would like to fine tune SOFTWARE TOPICS. I am interested in availabe software dealing with fly fishing topics, specifically, fly tying, casting techniques, fishing and fly logs, fly catalogs, tide and weather information, etc. If you can point me to the correct E-Mail or URL locations for any such programs you might be aware of, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for providing me the information.         Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Try to Locate Elkwing as they put a good f tying CD ROM that is not bad.

Response:

Question:

Ron To get the best traction on a wet surface (a boat ramp) look for an all season tire with a high volume of tread surfaces.  This type of tire will have a lot of tiny cuts in the tread design.  When the tire is stressed pulling a load, this type of tread will flex and the edges of these cuts will grip the road surface.  Do Not consider the course off road tread design!  It has the worst hard surface traction. You should also be very light on the gas pedal.  A posi traction differential is also a big help if it is kept maintained and the clutches adjusted. Would you believe I pull a 3800 lb boat up steep boat ramps with a chev s-10 with no problems? Good Luck Wayne

Response:

The next time this happens, try letting some air out of the rear tires – enough to increase the footprint somewhat. Be sure to air up again at the first opportunity. (Longrigger) writes: | Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. | I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone | and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. | | Longrigger

    Try pulling up the anchor on the boat…  (I couldn’t resist!)     No, really…  Tire pressure helps a ton, and the start of the pull is the most important part.  Once underway, roll into the throttle, but maintain traction…  (I think that all of the answers I have read here would help.)     …Sam

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in

Well iv been towing several different boats for many years and with different car’s here’s my $.01 worth. My last boat is a 3500 -4000 lbs boat and trailer, and iv towed it with my four cylinder turbo 5 speed (not many times) it did well no spinning. But now it has posi and very good traction tires on the rear. I now use a 87 jeep cherokee with a posi and BF comp TA’s works very well. Also on thing to remember is your toung weight. My toung weight is over 250+ lbs , thats why I went to the jeep. At first the jeep was a standard rear end and there was some slipping but since the posi the only time it skips is if I jump on the gas to hard. Does any one out there remember the rule of thumb on toung weight? It’s some % of your total weight should be your toung weight. And this also helps if you have to slow your boat down real fast on the hwy. bye

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower.

. . . . Ron Morgan

Since you have more than enough horsepower – if one rear wheel starts to spin, hold the parking brake release open and apply the parking brake.  If you apply hard enough, both wheels will receive power. You can also try stabbing at the parking brake if the engine does not have enough power. Not a sure fire thing.  But it is another trick to but in your bag. Terry Dobie 83 CJ7 Hailey, ID

Response:

I use my Jeep Grand Cherokee to haul my boat.  I learned the hard way that you have to ease into the pull.  I use an awefull ramp in East Falmouth Cape Cod that is always covered in a thin layer of scum.  On one occasion, I was sort of hurried by other boaters waiting to get out of the water and I pulled to fast.  Before I knew it, my tires were spinning and I was moving backward.  OOOOPS!  Thank god I stopped on time.   I now make sure that my air pressure is a little lower (more surface space), and that I ease into the pull.  At this one particular ramp, I often throw handfulls of sand onto the algae to create a little traction.  I read a lot of others posts where sand is the enemy, but in this scenerio, it works well. Good luck David

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit. Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

Response:

*snip* months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit.

    You must have a non-posi rear end on your van…  The emergency brake trick worked on my ‘91 Dakota when semi-stuck in sand (I had a non-posi rearend).   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

After many years of enjoying the entertainment of watching people pull boats out at a wide variety of ramps throughout the western US, I know this: The initial pull to get a boat up out of the water is substantial, if you think of how hard it is to pull a small water skier up out of the water, imaging something with 30 times the weight and surface tension and bad hydrodynamics (the trailer…not the boat!) Many people think the best approach is to try to accelerate quickly to "get the damn thing going!", so they give their rig too much throttle. Once you break adhesion on a slick surface, you cannot pull a load equivalent to before you spun the wheels.  So if it spins, let off the throttle and let the wheels catch traction.  Then, try again with less acceleration.  Don’t think that spinning your wheels faster will get you up the ramp, ’cause it will only make it harder to get out. As other posts have said, lowering your tire pressure a little will help a lot.  But I have found on most ramps I can get my boat out by just driving a little more gently and not starting the spinning.  I find an auto trans works better, since you can accelerate from a standstill very slowly without having to dump the clutch.  But I have had several trucks with 4 speeds and a couple of 5 speeds.  You just gotta take it easy, and don’t try to pull the boat out fast.

Response:

I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? …        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong!

seems you caught this opportunity nicely That’s the description you find in physics 101, but it doesn’t work well in this case.  It works for flat surfaces in contact (with a few other assumptions).  When you add rough surfaces, compressible and deformable surfaces, and weak surface features (like sand on the ramp) that can withstand only a (smallish) maximum force before breaking away, then surface area and tread play an important role.

Response:

I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? pqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpq        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

Response:

Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip!

This isn’t sand on concrete (like a building site) but sand on a concrete boat ramp. All the ramps I’ve seen have been pretty slippery with weed and green gunk. If I used the same ramp every day, I’d scrub the thing clean and use Jeyes fluid or caustic soda on it occasionally to keep the gunk off. I know little about boat ramps, but I do know about silage clamps and slurry lagoons  (bleurgh !) – even for these noxious devices it’s worth doing a bit of scrubbing & hosing occasionally. Failing that, get as big a contact patch as you can. Soft rubber in small tread blocks (not great mud-plugger tread bars) and a low enough pressure to let the tyre flatten as much as is practical. — alt.flame – Making the world a safer place for postal workers.

Response:

How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

        Er, does that imply that your current tires are rather bald?         If so, ‘nuf said.         Relative weight of vehicle and tow is important. (If the wheels         on your trailer are bigger than the wheels on your tow vehicle,         you’re in trouble. Saw a Chicago flatlander trying to tow a large         boat with his Beamer. Didn’t make it.)         In your case, the truck should have enough towing weight, but         the question is about weight on the rear wheels.         o The angle of the ramp tends to transfer more weight to the           rear wheels.         o Tounge weight of the trailer is important.         I am hauling a smaller  14′ runabout (40 horse motor) with a         Ranger pickup in a similar situation. I have no problems.         o I have a stick, so can control things better.         o When I was towing with a station wagon and automatic, I would:            o Put the transmission in second            o Step on the brake            o Give it some gas.            o Use the break as a clutch, slowly easing up so that there              was no jerk in the initial pull. Frank R. Borger – Physicist     ___      "I think medical research would show Michael Reese – U of Chicago   |___       that being a Cubs fan lengthens Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _    your life. Or maybe it just _seems_ ph: 312-791-8075 fa: 791-2517       |_)

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

[...]         have you tried deflating the rear tyres a bit?  you’d get a larger         contact area.         andrew —            work phone/fax: 0131 668 8356, office: 0131 668 8357     institute for astronomy, royal observatory, blackford hill, edinburgh                      http://www.roe.ac.uk/ajcwww

Response:

Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

There’s a lot coming into play. I find all terrains are significantly better than road tires.  I would assume mudders are even better.  My guess would be that the deep tread actually allows some of the edges of the tread to grip the ramp, cause there’s certainly lower area in contact.  Course that also means greater psi. Another factor is the softness of the rubber.  I would suspect that given two identical tires, the one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.  No-one really complains about sand at a launch ramp. kevin

Response:

Well, since you’re having trouble on boat ramps with your pickup you need more weight on the wheels.  If you can’t get buddies or bystanders to sit in the bed to get more weight on the rear wheels, try some of that water in 5 gallon pails (like paint pails).  If you’re in salt water you’ll want lids to keep the water out of the bed; in fresh water that’s not a problem.  10 x 5 gal x 8 lbs/gal is 400 lbs, enough to help quite a bit.  Nice thing about this is you don’t need to drag the extra weight around afterwards, and it’s likely to be available wherever you launch your boat .   — Bart Smaalders                  Solaris Performance     SunSoft http://playground.sun.com/~barts                    2550 Garcia Ave                                                         Mt View, CA 94043-1100

Response:

he one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.

Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip! Sand on ICE is ok but no sand is better on non-frozen concrete. George Bonser

Response:

How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Wide, sticky tires in my opinion. Though they spread the weight out more, there is more surface for gripping. It will reduce fuel economy somewhat though.  Also, I would worry more about hydroplaning on FRONT wheels where you could loose steering control. You might try putting some weight over that axle or letting 5lb of air out if you get stranded. George Bonser

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

I stuck my truck in Galveston Bay this way.  My solution was to buy an old CJ5.  Now I drop into 4 wheel drive in low range.  And no problem. A cheaper alternative is to mount a trailer ball on the front which keeps those rear wheels way up out of the water. cfly — Charlie and Dorothy Fly Non-Trivial Solutions 2951 Marina Bay Dr. Suite 130-349 League City, TX  77573-2733

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

Ron – When you buy your tires, make sure you get a better traction rating.  Talk to the tire dealer about traction ratings and wet pavement.  He may help you out tremendously. (Softer tires may wear quicker.) Other solutions to consider can make a big difference :         1. Put a couple hundred pounds of sand bags or blocks in the                 very back of the truck.  Spinning can be caused by not                 enough weight on the rear wheels.         2. Adjust your boat on the trailer to increase the tongue weight                 of the trailer (not to an extreme).  With the boat further                 on the trailer, you will get more weight on the truck tires.         3. Next truck, get limited slip differential to use both back wheels instead of one. Good luck and may all your ramps be dry ones, Joe

Response:

Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. Longrigger

Response:

Almost everybody I know has had the same problem with some combination of boats, ramps and tow vehicles. I have better traction on my jeep since I moved up on tire size. The tires are all weather radials. I can still spin all 4 tires if the ramp is mucky enough. Just having new tires will make a difference because the rubber will be softer and the thicker tread will be more compliant than on the older tires. My neighbor mounted a hitch ball on the front bumper of his 2WD truck which let him keep his rear tires high and dry. This can be particularly important at low tide, especially on ramps in estuaries that tend to silt up and/or grow moss. I carried a 20 foot heavy duty tow rope for several years untill the size of my tow vehicle caught up with my boat. I have also seen tongue extensions used for the same purpose. Many sailboaters use these because a keelboat has to be sent WAY back before it will float off the trailer. They either telescope out of the trailer tongue or are carried along side. Some of them even have their own wheels on them that will take much more abuse than a standard trailer jack wheel. My jeep has mushy rear springs and a short wheelbase, so I don’t run with much tongue weight. You can usually run much more tongue weight on a real truck like yours. 300 or 400 lbs of tongue weight, if you are not already running that much, could do a lot for your traction problems. Check with the truck manufacturer to see what they recommend.                                                 vaaler

Response:

& Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 & pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The & boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, & of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. & Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off & other boats that were just pulled out. & My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these & conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, & the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, & very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being & stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that & boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an & inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what & kind of wear this produced on my transmission. You don’t say what the truck is, but does it have a limited slip differential (pozi-trac, sure-grip, etc)?  If not that would get you double the traction.  They can be added to many of the trucks out there. Hewlett Packard              (707) 794-4848 fax      (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive      http://web.sr.hp.com/~frankb/ Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999   KC6WUG, AMA, DoD #7566, NMLRA, I’m the NRA. U.S.A.              Dodge V8 Dakota, Yamaha IT175 XT350 YZF600R Seca 750

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

    Ron I had the same ‘problem’ with my old truck (‘91 Dakota with limited slip).  I would put up a slippery ramp and one tire would spin (no posi!)…  I helped the situation by putting all of the crap in the back of the truck that was in the boat, to put more weight over the rear tires (Coolers, skis, gas cans, clothes, etc.)  This made a difference.  I don’t know what type of truck you have, or if it has posi, but with my NEW ‘95 Dakota w/posi + 5 speed I am able to pull that same boat, with all of the crap still in the boat, with no problem out of the same ramp.  I do run a lower tire pressure, as this tends to put more rubber onto the ground, giving more traction.  You might try that too…(it wouldn’t hurt).       BTW  If you didn’t already know this, when pulling out of a boat ramp with a automatic trans, and you work pretty hard to pull that boat up (any pull should be considered) the ramp, make sure you don’t pull up to the staging area and shut off your truck while securing you boat. All of the heat generated by the pull will not leave the transmission (as it didn’t get cooled yet by the transmission cooler)…and can cause a lot of wear/tear/damage to your transmission.  My bone-head friend went through 2 transmissions over 2 seasons going to the Colorado river with his boat.  Every time he got it out of the water he would shut down, secure the boat, then take off…with an air temp of about 110 F. that truck would almost boil the transmission fluid!!!  He learned.     I got a 5 speed ( no cooler needed!), and it works a lot better than a automatic (at least for me it does).     My $.02     ..Sam

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Response:

Question:

I’m thinking about trying to make solid bodied baits, like crankbaits, poppers, etc or maybe a rod or two  for something to do during the winter. Can anyone recommend a book on the subjects? I’ve looked around the bookstores and library, but haven’t found anything. If anybody has any exprerience in it, I’d like to know how big of a project it is.  Any leads to sources of materials would also be appreciated. Maybe I could wire a dremmel tool to my extra serial port and do CAD/CAM <g (Yea, right) Anyway, any ideas are appreciated. catch u later, John

Response:

Cant help you there!

Response:

Boyd Pfeiffer has a nice book TACKLE CRAFTS.  We’ve a good fly tie book in our magazine, and should have articles on rod rolling and lure making.  If we don’t now, and I’ll look, I’ll make sure we get them soon. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

Response:

 You might want to give Jann’s a yell, they will send you a catalog full of items like you are after, (No, no M-Baits , but most  Good luck, —     **** Mike Muncy’s ****           "M-Baits"  "Handcrafted Cedar Crankbaits"     **** M-Baits Web Page **** http://www.fishingworld.com/M-Baits/

Response:

As an alternative winter activity to tying flies, I occasionally whittle on cork to fashion largish poppers for bass. I use wine corks that I’ve pulled with a special opener (it has metal or bamboo slats that slide between the cork and bottle neck) so they lack a hole down the middle. After fashioning a body, be it slider or noise maker, I epoxy in an appropriate sized hook rigged normal or keel style. Paint the body something outlandish and tie in a few feathers and it’s ready to go. Make sure you use a hefty rod with these babies since they have *a lot* of air resistance. Haven’t caught an ear yet, though 8). Ron

Response: