Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would rate line control as the most difficult, especially when nymphing. When the fish are rising, you don’t have to be able to read water. There are other satellite skills worth mentioning: fly tying rodbuilding photography writing story telling teaching tree/plant/bird/animal identification map reading bullshitting/evasiveness sleuthing/gleaning info from other fishermen Any others?

ROFF survival skills are in need if one is not internet impaired. Flyfish

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

I agree that the reading of the water (& fish within) is the most challenging (and rewarding) aspect of fly angling, though I won’t necessarily concur that it is the most "difficult".  Reading the water is more or less an experience related thing, and you have to have experienced the occasion to be able to learn from it.  However, that being said, some people are more observant than others,  and will learn something about a specific thing from a singular exposure to the observation of whatever that thing might be.  The slower learners might have to observe the phenomena many times before fully understanding it.  Perhaps "difficult" should encompass the degree of pure ability of  eyesight  that is required to master the reading of the water & fish, as that is the key limiting factor of the human body & its application to flyfishing?  Keen sight and observation and a willingness to learn are the key elements in reading a water  (for me that water is a troutstream). Regards, Michael.

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Patience was a worthy addition, which would go hand in hand with memory – remembering past lessons learned and forgotten. …after that I would go into fly selection which is greatly tied to entomology and presentation..perhaps a dash of line control. ….but then I don’t know squat, I just like to fish…john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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Patience. Steve

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I would add . . . Accepting that the fish are doing what the fish are doing, and not what I would want them to be doing, AND then. . . using appropriate rig and technique accordingly. …

Exactly correct. If the fish are not taking dry flies I accept that and use the appropriate rig, a can of cold Budweiser and a spliff. The "technique" is called "listening to the river sing sweet songs". I am not, as our esteemed correspondent from Sweden would suggest, totally clueless about nymphing. I will confess to having done it, as recently as on the Muskegon and on the San Juan, to provide ROFFian references. But anymore, fishing is more important than catching fish, and I’ll stick to dries if it’s OK with ya’ll. — Ken Fortenberry

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A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place

Line control, aka presentation. George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

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Casting

    Nope, you can teach a monkey how to cast a fly line. Line control

    That’s the winner. I can’t believe how many avid ff’ers just don’t get it. I fish with lots of guys who’ve mastered all the other skills mentioned, but they just don’t seem to comprehend "dead drift". Reading water

    Important, but most guys seem to learn how to read the water years before they can make a proper presentation. Wading without doing a "Reid"

    Anybody with normal bipedal skills should be able to wade well enough to catch fish, but on a heavily fished river, a better wader has more opportunities. Fly selection

   A close second. Willi is often called the "troutmaster" and I believe this is why. The guy always has the right pattern; sometimes I’ll wade over to see what he’s using and I’m usually amazed, when I’m wading back to my spot I say to myself "Why didn’t I think of that?"     Not as important as line control, however. Unless it’s a "moving pattern" (streamers, skittering caddis, et al) the fish won’t bite it if it’s dragging. Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place

    Got rid of beta version. Current wiff says I don’t fish enough.

Response:

A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ?

As a newbie to fly fishing who has recently completed his first full season, the skill that most eludes me is line control, particularly where multiple and conflicting currents are involved.  While it isn’t pretty, I can cast well enough—as Ken writes—to catch fish.  I am able to read water well enough to locate the most obvious lies, and fly selection is an area in which I am improving.  Line control, though?  Good God!  I was badly humbled on the Owens River a couple of weeks ago while casting little caddis dries to rising fish.  Enough said. While I can practice some of the other "skills" away from the water, I need to have my line laying across the current in a real river to really be able to understand everything that comes into play with controlling the line. As an aside that might be more appropriate for ROFFT, the next skill I want to start learning is tying my own flies.  I’m leaning towards an inexpensive vise and tool kit (Thompson A plus tools), picking up materials as I go.  If somebody wants to enlighten me as far as other options go, I’m more than willing to listen.  Many thanks. Cheers, Bill

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A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes:

knowing when to check the hook point on yer yella humpy <g jeff and wolf should be pullin’ in any time now, on the road to snowbird… yabbba, dabbbba, dewwwwwwww . –waldo

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A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection

    i have a funny feeling that the responses will be conditioned to a large extent by the kind of water one usually fishes.  for example, my first choice is "line control", both in and out of the water.  that selection is driven because, as you well know, one must be able to cast in very confined conditions above the water, and mend like a magician *on* the water, to catch good fish in the mountains of north carolina.  tangentially, one’s wading abilities (including agility, strength, and stamina) are very, very important on streams such as snowbird, hazel, and the nanty.  the two talents bisect at some point, since the ability to acquire a position from which a particular run or pocket can be accessed more easily than a point at which one merely steps off the bank may reduce the need for difficult mending chores.     finally, the least important for me is fly selection.  where i come from, if you read water (which has always, strangely, come easy for me) well, and can achieve a drag free float, it usually doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what is on the end of the tippet. yfitons wayno

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Charlie Wilson writes:

<snip I totally agree.  I can’t cast worth a damn, but I can present a fly well in most situations.  I recently learned another way to "swing" a fly, and I wouldn’t have caught anything if I didn’t learn the technique. Missed you at HF.  Hope all is ok. Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

Im my case, I think casting is the most difficult. I find that line control becomes easy when I am casting accurately and well.

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I would add . . . Accepting that the fish are doing what the fish are doing, and not what I would want them to be doing, AND then. . . using appropriate rig and technique accordingly. Its existential. And common, I suspect, to folks addicted to surface strikes. Dave

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<snip As an aside that might be more appropriate for ROFFT, the next skill I want to start learning is tying my own flies.  I’m leaning towards an inexpensive vise and tool kit (Thompson A plus tools), picking up materials as I go. If somebody wants to enlighten me as far as other options go, I’m more than willing to listen.  Many thanks. Cheers, Bill

You’re on the right track… The key is picking the flies you want to tie, and buying that material. Even more important is to actually learn some basic techniques: starting the thread, whip or half hitch finish, basic dubbing, and proportions.  You can get that from books, but it’s better to actually watch somebody.  Your local flyshop, TU or FFF chapter probably runs formal or informal classes during the winter.  Now is the time to check!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

For myself, I’d vote line control.  I regularly fish "big" water that requires casting beyond the main channel into pockets.  In these scenarios the fly often is presented on near still water, while the line is drifting in rapid water.  I find it difficult to mend 20′ of line in a current without pulling the fly out of the still water.

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 Have to agree with you.  I will hopefully fish till the day I get to old cast a fly and still not be able to know what is under the surface.  Tried reading books and it just doesn’t seem to be retained.  I think that it is probably only learned over time, or at the side of an experienced teacher.  The rest of the list is relatively easy to learn, especially the ‘Reid’ reference, turns out I only fell twice (this year) but did it with style.  :)        jim An hour on the river adds a day to your life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

I’ve been Reiding the water for years.  It is indeed a difficult skill to master unless you are born to it (What?!  You think you just fall into like a lottery winner?). Seriously, I do agree that reading the water is up there, but it is second to fly selection.  Yeh, when the rain is holding the slate drakes on the surface and you could cast a chunk of charcoal out there and get a 26" fish, its easy.  When the sun is high, no wind, no hatch, but you see the fish rolling deep and trying to figure them out is definately a knack. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

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Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Well enough to catch _some_ fish, anyway.  There will always be other fish in difficult locations, and you could spend a lifetime refining your casting skills to the point where you can make the perfect presentation to every fish in the stream. Likewise, tying on a Wooly Worm and just letting it drift in the current will almost always catch _some_ fish, but a more refined approach will usually get more fish.  Again, you could spend a lifetime trying to improve your skills. This, I think, really goes to the heart of what makes fishing interesting.  Almost anybody can succeed at it to some degree, but you can always improve.  If you could ever really _master_ it, it wouldn’t be any fun anymore.  The game of Tic-Tac-Toe is amusing for children, but after a while they realize that there is only a small number of possible strategies, and then the game isn’t any fun to play anymore.  Chess has finitely many possible strategies as well, but it the number is so large and the game so complex that probably no human will ever completely master the game. Kevin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

"Reading the water"-skill is something that comes with spending a lot of time fishing and as such should be ranked high. Apart from that I would add correct presentation of different flies. Seeing that you may be a master dry fly fisherman and know absolutely nothing about nymphing, I would say that learning to present a fly correctly in any streamside situation takes a lot of different knowledge and experience. — Tight lines! / Roger Daytime engineer Lifetime flyfisherman If you feel like it, visit http://home.bip.net/angler/ for info on flyfishing in Sweden

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Agreed, although I certainly would rank myself as "proficient". I’d rank "Line control" as number two. — TL, Tim

Response:

A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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I would rate line control as the most difficult, especially when nymphing. When the fish are rising, you don’t have to be able to read water. There are other satellite skills worth mentioning: fly tying rodbuilding photography writing story telling teaching tree/plant/bird/animal identification map reading bullshitting/evasiveness sleuthing/gleaning info from other fishermen Any others?

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  A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the   skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to   achieve proficiency ?     A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes:     Casting   Line control   Reading water   Wading without doing a "Reid"   Fly selection   Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place     Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult   to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the   easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well   enough to fish.   I think what we define as proficient in casting is very different. I think that casting is an integral part of presentation which IMO is the most difficult and complex of any of the skills. Willi

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I vote for setting the hook / striking (not listed). My success rate would skyrocket if I hooked 1/2 the fish that "take" or rise. Seems I’m either too slow or too fast most of the time. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Well, the two with the ";-)" aren’t really FFing skills per se (probably indicated by the ";-)" ) and wading isn’t a universal requirement of FFing, even taking it as a "skill" of FFing – however, if one wades, do so safely is important.  I’d agree that "reading water" (or "fishing in the right place at the right time," or whatever one wishes to call it) is the most difficult because it is the only one over which the angler has only limited control in the time one fishes, and no control over the "water" itself (well, other than on private water, and even then, the control is not complete).  With casting, the angler has the control, and "casting well enough to fish," if defined as getting a fly in the general area one wishes, isn’t that difficult, esp. with shorter casts. I would add to the list three more skills, with first being perhaps the most important skill: learning how to fight and release a fish, even if you rarely release.  It, like casting, is very easy to learn, yet is probably the most-neglected skill for most anglers.  If angling is a sport, learn to be sporting first and foremost – this relates, IMO, to my third addition, below. The second is presentation – "casting well enough to fish," again, if defined as getting a fly to the general area desired, is not all there is to FFing, and an "ugly" cast with a delicate presentation is often more effective than a "textbook" (aerial/distance portion) cast that finishes by landing like a cinder block on a logging chain tossed from a truck.  Granted, that is a bit extreme as a "perfect" cast should present fairly well, but the point remains that "casting" involves a number of "steps" that 20 minutes of instruction won’t teach completely for all situations. The third "skill" (admittedly stretching "skill" a bit, but…) being that of the ability to select appropriate tackle: heavy enough for the quarry while remaining enjoyable – no 3-wt. trout setups after salmon, etc., appropriate to the angler in terms of need, budget, experience, skill, etc. – going into debt for a 1000.00-plus USD setup will not make you a better angler, and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise has more problems than fishing – you CAN catch many species on any number of 100.00USD or less setups, be they new "X-Mart Specials," Cabela’s "kits," tag sale/flea market finds, etc.  OTOH, if the only thing that limits your purchasing ability is an outfitter’s inventory and your skill and experience is such that you wish to take advantage of the diminishing returns of "better" tackle, then getting whatever you wish is completely understandable, and, appropriate to the quarry and location – under-lined, under-backed Martin "X-Mart" specials are inappropriate when bonefishing, etc. TC, R

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Question:

What is the web address for this disscusion

group. I am getting rid of my web tv. and can not live without reading the posts on ROFF. If it isn’t available on a computer, where

can i get my ROFF fix? web tv dosn’t list an addy for ROFF, just

says web tv network. Thanks Let me first say congratulations in deciding to get rid of web-tv. Secondly, you can read and post on this and

other news groups at www.deja.com.  It is a free web-based news

service.  One of the best parts of www.deja.com is the search options.

You can search old posts or even other posters.  It becomes very handy

ammunition when you’re in an argument with someone.  It’s been used

against me several times. — Vern My ROFF page:

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Thanks guys i have found it now. Thanks again             sYc427 Before you buy.

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Cool.  Looks like you’re all set up on www.deja.com with a new handle as well.  :-)  I’m glad it’s working. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

What is the web address for this disscusion group. I am getting rid of my web tv. and can not live without reading the posts on ROFF. If it isn’t available on a computer, where can i get my ROFF fix???? web tv dosn’t list an addy for ROFF, just says web tv network. Thanks

Response:

What is the web address for this disscusion group. I am getting rid of my web tv. and can not live without reading the posts on ROFF. If it isn’t available on a computer, where can i get my ROFF fix???? web tv dosn’t list an addy for ROFF, just says web tv network.

This isn’t a "web" site – it’s a Usenet group. When you subscribe to an internet service provider they will let you know where to point your news reader application to find their (and hence your) news server. Once you’ve gotten that information you should be able to find rec.outdoors.fishing.fly and add it to your list of subscribed groups. The alternative is to use one of the web-based usenet services, which grab usenet posts and archive them so you can access them via a browser. Slower and usually more cumbersome than the more direct approach, but this is a popular solution with AOL users (who are otherwise stuck with an atrocious usenet service)… Cheers. /daytripper

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When you subscribe to an internet service provider they will let you know where to point your news reader…

heh heh, I *knew* someone was gonna say that The alternative is to use one of the web-based usenet services, which grab usenet posts and archive them so you can access them via a browser. Slower and usually more cumbersome than the more direct approach, but this is a popular solution with AOL users (who are otherwise stuck with an atrocious usenet service)…

Doesn’t everyone use www.deja.com or other for searching archives? Regards, Jeff

Response:

What is the web address for this disscusion group. I am getting rid of my web tv. and can not live without reading the posts on ROFF. If it isn’t available on a computer, where can i get my ROFF fix? web tv dosn’t list an addy for ROFF, just says web tv network. Thanks

Let me first say congratulations in deciding to get rid of web-tv. Secondly, you can read and post on this and other news groups at www.deja.com.  It is a free web-based news service.  One of the best parts of www.deja.com is the search options.  You can search old posts or even other posters.  It becomes very handy ammunition when you’re in an argument with someone.  It’s been used against me several times. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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Question:

That sounds like a pretty good deal, however, I would opt for a 9′ fod instead of the 8.5′.  Before you spend any money, you should first have your wife try the sport to see if she will like it, maybe you have already done this.  Do you have any friends that own rods that she could try?  Good luck! Maurice Paquette

Although I do not flyfish, my wife would like to get into the sport. I am looking for a good starter set that she would not grow out of too soon.  I was wondering what folks here think about the Orvis Clearwater beginner combo described below for $165.00: Clearwater 865 8

Question:

Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the area.

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(EVANV) writes: Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the

area. Lots of worthwhile fishing opportunities in the area. Plenty of wadeable tidal pools in the bay, bayous, and sound where good shots at redfish and speckled trout can be had.There’s an Orvis Store in Destin (my credit card statement says Blue Bay Outfitters, but I thought it was called something else, oh well it’s there ) Also good fishing in the gulf and in nearby fresh water rivers and ponds. And if you’re lucky, I onced hooked a small tarpon there while casting to redfish though I understand that is a rare occurence. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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I inquired at the local Orvis shop (Destin) and was very satisfied with the

Well I’ll be…another good spot for information is Half Hitch tackle. me where I could wade for redfish, speckled trout and pompano. He also said

Although that area still has a bit more net-ban-poaching than other areas there seem to be more fish when I was dock fishing over Thanksgiving. Let me put this way, I caught the first redfish I had caught from the location in about 15 years.  A couple of places to wade are the sound at the Brooks bridge going into FWB.  There are a nice set of grass beds on the FWB side of the sound between the bridge and to the point to the east side of the bridge (ie the side opening to the bay). Heading toward Destin from FWB, just before the bridge to Destin on the left is the Coast Guard Station.  In front of the Coast Guard Station is a decent size sand flat.  In March there might be some spanish moving through (ask at the Half Hitch). Some folks try across the road from the Coast Guard Station on the gulf side of the island and back toward FWB.  You will see a spot to park very near the beach about 1/4 mile before the Destin bridge. One other place that I have never tried, but it is a large sand flat now is on the bay side of the island about half way between FWB and Destin. there were some very nice bluefish off the east jetty. It can be accessed by

At tide change the jetty can be rather good from what I have seen the few times that I have been there.  You can get to either jetty and the walk to the end of the west jetty takes about 30 minutes.  You can also "try" to fish the eddy in the pass on that side as well. Cheers, Mike — Mike Marler                          Information Technology, Georgia Tech

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I spend a fair amount of time in that area, and although I have never fished there I plan to in the future. When I was there over the Christmas holidays I inquired at the local Orvis shop (Destin) and was very satisfied with the info I got. I do not recall the name of the owner, but he was able to tell me where I could wade for redfish, speckled trout and pompano. He also said there were some very nice bluefish off the east jetty. It can be accessed by foot or boat(better). I got some additional info from a sporting goods store named Sockeyes. I would recommend contacting both before going. I was very disappointed after talking to them that I had not come prepared to fish. If you want to travel a few miles (30 or so) to the east past Panama City you can go to St. Joseph Bay. There is excellent fishing there. I also understand there is a tarpon fishery there. If you decide to use a guide and have any desire to split a trip, I would be interested. It is only a few hours from New Orleans and I am always looking for an opportunity to fish. Best of luck. Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the

area.

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Question:

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

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Jeff Baker: <<i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still Why?  Shocked that they honored their warranty?  Or, shocked that they did not send it back to the factory?  There is much bitching and moaning about Orvis on these pages, but there products are superior and their warranties unprecendented.   Dave LaCourse

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Hi Jeff, I’ve alway found the folks at Orvis to provide good service. Glad things turned out for you. Take care & … tight lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

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Ditto. I use all brands of stuff and like Orvis just fine. Sometimes guys think buying stuff from Orvis is being a yuppie, meanwhile they buy gear that is more expensive from other manufacturers and think they aren’t being snobs because it doesn’t say Orvis. Viva anything that works including ORVIS, ORVIS !!

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You should have asked for a Trident.

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

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I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

    The Orvis dealers I’ve come in contact with are to a man, pretty good people. Being of sound mind and unsound bank account, most items they sell are regretably beyond my means. I do have two reels which I ordered along with the approprate line and backing. When I received them they were all set up ready to go. The gripes I see on this NG are not about quality or service but about the clothing etc. that are in the Orvis shops. Personally "who gives a rats patooty". If that is what it takes to make a shop fiscally sound, it’s better than a "closed" sign and I can walk on by. When ever I am in an area not close to home I search out an Orvis dealer and buy the recomended fly of the day( usually in threes). I’ve yet to be disapointed.                                                              John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

_____ I believe those waders came with a lifetime guarantee.  Yet, you are well taken care of and you should stick with those companies that make you satisfied and happy.  If the Boston Store does that for you, amen. I’d stick with them myself if I used Orvis equipment, under your circumstances.   Mr. G.

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My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little.

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em.

Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

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My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_____ Tim?  Consider yourself hugged.  Wonderful reply! Mr. G.

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Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

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Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) /dave

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 Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) << Hey, if that ‘hole diden’t pick up on the first ), the 2d one won’t do any good.  He probably thinks you’re going to steal one of his ribs.  After all, "denoted" is more than one syllable. Your post was perfect.  Only thing I didn’t like about it was that *you* posted it, not me. <g

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Dave LaCourse,I was just surprised of the fact that Orvis exchanged the rod when I brought it in.I’ve been using Orvis products since 1965,fishing mostly with their cane.That exchange just made me feel good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy,never thinking how we’re getting fucked like we or I do these days, J Baker.

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good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy, I know the feeling, friend.  They have exchanged a number of things for me, no argument, no explanation on my part.  I don’t like it – they exchange it.  I will continue to do business with them. I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  It’s all in fun (I hope).  Orvis HAS gone the way of a yuppie-provider-store, but they still make fine fishin’ stuff and I will always be a customer. Dave LaCourse

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I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  

And I _do_ like the bed<g. I too like Orvis products. Some of their stuff is fluff, but I have had excellent luck with their fishing gear and have some of their luggage that is probably close to 20yrs old, has been around the world (literally) a couple of times, and is still in great shape. I sure wouldn’t hesitate to buy something just because it had their logo on it, not would I buy something simply because it did. FWIW. — Charlie…

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Hi All, Orvis, L.L.Bean, Patagonia and a few others have the reputation of taking care of their customers. Actually, if given the chance, many manufacturers will do something for you if a product does not last or doesn’t work out somehow. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

I’m interested in fishing from a kayak and have seen ads from a California company that makes a molded plastic catamaran-style kayak they claim is "designed for fishermen."  Anyone have any experience with Mendocino Kayaks? Obviously I’d like something that paddles easily, is relatively stable, light-weight and car-toppable.  I’d welcome comments and suggestions.

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I currently own an Ocean Kayak malibu II, I love it. Its a two seater so maybe a single for you? The "sit on top" kayaks are real stable to fish from , which is my main reason for my purchacing one. I dont know your type of fishing, mine is fly fishing salt water flats and channels.Maybe this will help. Good luck mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in fishing from a kayak and have seen ads from a California company that makes a molded plastic catamaran-style kayak they claim is "designed for fishermen."  Anyone have any experience with Mendocino Kayaks? Obviously I’d like something that paddles easily, is relatively stable, light-weight and car-toppable.  I’d welcome comments and suggestions.

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Question:

C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.  These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters).

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C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.

These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters). Danezen,  A friend and I caught a number of carp of 3 to 5 pounds on #14 GRHE in clear quiet water.  Fished the fly with a slow finger winding retrieve.  They make a lot of noise splashing as the hook is set and the first 3 minutes are a good fight…. then it is a down and dogged pull without much character to it until you bring them to net… Seem to lack the stamina of a salmonid. Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.  

In the absence of other fish, Carp is King. In the presence of other fish, carp is an abomination.

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I have had some success using maribu jigs with hackle bodys, fished off docks and presented like you would to a trout. them buggers can be alfull picky. lots of fun on 2 pound line. The guy crappie fishing next to me about had a heart attack when I landed a 6 pounder on 2 pound line. bright colors seem to help. crashawk

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A number of years ago, I was fishing 11 Mile Reservoir for Pike. I was casting a large black Bunny Fly that had been very successful for me netting me a number of Pike up to twenty pounds. I was fishing a wind swept shoreline from a belly boat & was casting into the roiled water near the bank, retrieving the fly back into the clear. The Pike I had been catching were sitting right at the edge of this line. I made a cast very near the shore & thought that I had snagged. Then all hell broke loose. Following a huge swurl, the fish took off like a freight train running toward the middle of the lake. With an eight weight & a heavy leader, I was unable to slow the fish. When I reached my backing, I turned around, held my rod above my head, & kicked as hard as I could to keep the fish from taking all the line. I followed the fish as well as I could, without being able to gain any line. Finally just when the spool was nearly empty, it stopped. I regained some line by getting right over the fish. Then the work began. For what seemed to be a half hour, I followed the fish, got towed by him, gained line, lost line. I felt I had hooked a CO record pike.I finally gained enough line that I saw the fish. I was *VERY* dissappointed when I saw it was a carp. When I finally landed it, I guestimated it at over twenty pounds, similar in weight to some of the bigger pike I had caught. Over the next few days, my mind kept going back to the battle with this fish. I was probably the most exciting, hard fought battle I’d had with a fish. This turned around my thinking about carp. I now fish for them with dries when they’re surface feeding, & will fish for them with nymphs etc. I find that small flies, as a whole, fish better.   Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.  These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters). There is a story in the current California Fly Fisher about sneak fishing for large carp in ponds in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. Written by Seth Norman with photos by Valentine Atkinson. He scored on egg flies. The fish were spooky. The proper camoflage would be to dress as a bum and cast a short rod from a park bench.

Laugh.  I really miss my subscription to that magazine but I no longer live in California.  If you (the generic you) live in California, and you flyfish,  I highly recommend a subscription to the magazine. -Mark Vinsel BTW, in case this rare willingness to write on your favorite quarry inspires you to want to subscribe, Cal FFer can be reached at: P.O. Box 40429 San Francisco, CA,  94140 (415) 284-0313

At one time they had an email address as well but were having trouble with their service provider and I haven’t seen anything from them in a long time.  I had a good feeling about them when I first subscribed to the magazine and they apologized for not getting back so soon because the staff was out fishing. John Fereira

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Question:

With the current thread on the exploding float tube (Float Tube Safety – Near Drowning) I was thinking about the recent thread about the guy who drowned. It appeared that he was stuck in an upside-down float tube. A few have said that they would try to flip their tubes and see if they can get out. Has anybody tried this yet? Jon Porter

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With the current thread on the exploding float tube (Float Tube Safety – Near Drowning) I was thinking about the recent thread about the guy who drowned. It appeared that he was stuck in an upside-down float tube. A few have said that they would try to flip their tubes and see if they can get out. Has anybody tried this yet? Jon Porter

Hi Jon, Several years ago I accidently flipped my tube.  Thank god I had two friends right next to me and we were only about six feet from the bank.   I don’t think I could have gotten out of the tube by myself.  I promptly bought a pontoon boat with a rowing system (Water Otter) and have never been in a float tube since. After getting the Water Otter I purposely turned it over a couple of times to see how difficult it would be to get out of it (again with friends present to help).  I was able to free myself rather quickly on both occasions.  I’ve never had an unscheduled roll over as it seems to be quite stable.  I suppose a roll over is possible if I was not paying attention and ran one of the pontoon up on a rock in faster water. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I’ll have a chance to do some fly fishing around Bushkill Falls, PA and on the Delaware River between Port Jervis and Barryville, NY. late May. Any suggestions on what to bring for gear and flies? Where are the public access points? What kind of trout will there be? Is it worth even going to these places? Thanks, Bob

Both rivers are definately worth visiting, but they are quite different.   The Big Bushkill is a relatively small stream that contains primarily stocked trout.  A good access point is the Boy Scout camp near the falls.  Bring a variety of early season mayflies, though the Hendricksons will probably be done.  Try Blue Quills, sulphurs, etc. The Delaware, on the other hand, is a very large river with a good wild trout population.  The area below Port Jervis offers trout and bass, depending on the water temps.  You may also catch the shad run.  For a hatch chart, call Al Caucci at (717) 629-2962.

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Are you part of the group from N.C, friends of Kevin McLane from WestGrove?  If so I’m looking forward to getting together again.  We are going to visit the Pine creek and past of Potter Co. as well.

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Last year on the Big Bushkill  (2d week in May)  one evening I was standing in a pool with about 5 other anglers fishing to trout rising all around us.  I tyed on a cream colored # 24 dry and was cathin the hell out of them when noone else was landing a thing.  May have been a fluke, but you can bet I’ll be well stocked with 24’s this May.

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I’ll have a chance to do some fly fishing around Bushkill Falls, PA and on the Delaware River between Port Jervis and Barryville, NY. late May. Any suggestions on what to bring for gear and flies? Where are the public access points? What kind of trout will there be? Is it worth even going to these places? Thanks, Bob

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Question:

        Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot! GN

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   Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot!

The traffic level isn’t high enough to justify creating subgroups.  The flyfishing discussions seem to be coexisting quite well with all the other discussions.   — John Fereira

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