Question:

My wife and I are looking to spend that last three weeks in Nov on the White River fly fishing.  We would prefer a cabin on the river and would posibly like a guide or two while there.  Does anyone have a suggestion of lodging and guide? — Stay connected, Carl D. Sgro

Response:

Carl – I would Highly recommend the Fulton’s lodge – Dale and Rona have a nice situation going – I have stayed there many times and they are the hosts for SRG(Southern Rodmakers Gathering) – here is a link with their info – http://www.mtnhome.net/fultons/ Wayne

Response:

Carl – I would Highly recommend the Fulton’s lodge – Dale and Rona have a nice situation going – I have stayed there many times and they are the hosts for SRG(Southern Rodmakers Gathering) – here is a link with their info – http://www.mtnhome.net/fultons/ Wayne

I have stayed at Dale Fulton’s place too and will be back again.  He also owns a nice fly shop there in MT Home, called Blue Ribbon. You will need to call ahead though as it is a popular place.  Well situated for both the White and the N.Fork River nearby (when the generators hose up the water and you’re without in the boat dept.) If you get the chance make a date to hit the Rainbow Lodge on the Little Red too.  Nice large trout and good access. K

Response:

Question:

Uh…Dave? Better get another "moniker" Dave M is already taken–by me   The real Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

Response:

did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase…

It was a fairly long drift. It was not as I placed the fly on the water. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

thanks!  nice description of patterns… Rob –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase… Just curious… — Rob

Response:

A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat.

There are exceptions to most rules, and I too have found that now and then a trout will hunt down a floating dun or sedge;  it is generally the surface disturbance that alerts the trout to the remote  insect’s presence, and that is why we drag our sedges to provoke a response ~ the induced take.  You mention a parachute hopper; this fly is much more visible to a trout than a regular dry fly ~ parachuted flies have a greater portion of fly that is fished subsurface than that of standard hackled dries. During the E. danica hatch, it is surprising how many duns manage to inadvertantly evade a trout when the nymphal shuck  has just been removed. The trout usually go for the shuck in a violent rise, and the floating dun is left to make his leisurely escape.  I assume that  the trout saw the shuck a lot more clearly than the floating dun (as the shuck is subsurface), and went for that instead of the real bit of ephemeral protein. However,  given that the floating natural fly is apt to make good his airborne escape, the trout are thus less inclined to waste a journey to a morcel that may escape his jaws.  With a nymph such as the PT (which imitates the nymph in the later instars as opposed to a nymph in its hatching to dun phase) the trout knows that he has plenty of time to chase down and eat the hapless nymph:  the snack is more or less guaranteed (unless another trout gets to the nymph first)  and the journey after it is well worth it indeed.   That is why when fishing deep nymphs such as the PT, the takes are a lot less violent and there is very little water disturbance (boils & bulges) to alert the angler.  This is where the bite indicator, or my  preferred  greased leader comes into its own. The trout don’t really need to rush to the nymph, they merely cruise it down. I find that trout are more inclined to hunt the PT nymph down over the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph.  I reckon that this is due to the trout believing that the GRHE nymph is soon to hatch out and fly off, and so he is more cautious with distance  ,  but at closer distances the trout fairly whallops the GRHE, seemingly in great haste to secure his meal.  The hook holds of the two flies also seem to bear this theory out too,  as the PT is an apex of the jaw snagger, whereas the GRHE is a scissor snagger much like that of a dry fly.  I spy rises to my GRHEs by the disturbances in the water, or the golden flash as the trout rapidly turns after seizing the fly.  In reflected light and in  turbulent water, I use the greased leader to detect bites with the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph, as the other methods are more difficult to practice in these situations.  Obviously,  when the fly is less than 12 " deep,  the surface splash of the diving trout is enough to know when to lift the rod or pull in the line to set the hook. (for utter butchery on a stream you can use an E. danica nymph,  but the fun of using it is more or less inversely proportional to the number of fish that you catch whilst using it in late May) Regards, Michael.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view.

You are correct in the depth enlarging the window issue,  but I am am right in saying that the sunk fly is *vastly* more visible than the floating fly. I have done a lot of diving and snorkelling and have seen this effect for myself.

Response:

Brian Nelson writes: Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

I’ve seen the same thing happen with Landlocked Salmon and Brookies.  I’ve had a Brookie swim forward three or so feet to take a size 20 Jail Bird floating midge. Dave

Response:

This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly. They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

Response:

Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

Response:

A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.

Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows….. I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent.

Oh, I’ve caught plenty of the others this way, but brookies definitely fall prey more often……probably because they’re easier anyway. I rarely use this method deliberately with the intent of catching more fish. Frankly, it isn’t the most interesting way to catch fish.  It is more often a matter of letting the fly dangle rather than reeling up all the line only to have to strip it off again when it’s my turn to fish.  This is especially true in those situations when the fish are feeding aggressively.  I’ve often found myself in situations where a partner will get a fish on while I’m still releasing one, and vice versa…..sometimes it isn’t worth the time to put the line back on the reel. Wolfgang

Response:

I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:   Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840   Size 12 to 22   Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray   Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)   Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)    Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)   The only way to fish it "wrong" is to leave it in your flybox. Enjoy HINT: Use a "Usual" as your point fly–tie in 18 inches of flourocarbon at the bend of the hook–and hang a LaFontaine Deep Sparkle Pupa off it. Deadly effective.   Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

well it’s officially in my "go to" list of techniques.  In my case last week, it did work on small browns…which are probably as aggressive as brookies in any event. I was swinging emergers successfully, and then saw a fish rising…switched to the EHC dry, missed a strike, then let it swing…it dove on the swing, and bang…fish on.  Did that for another half an hour or so successfully until I moved on. — Rob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling?

The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis) Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

thanks to both for the pointer…definitely will try it. just tied up a couple of deep sparkle caddis pupa yesterday… now for "the usual" Rob

Response:

I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)

Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

Response:

Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

Response:

I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great.

I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

Response:

Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..

I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent. Joe F.

Response:

Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

Response:

Hi Rob, Maybe they were taking it for an emerging insect? caddis? Could be very hungry fish or just lots of bugs moving at this time of year? Sometimes a twitched or skated dry will would well too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Response:

I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Response:

Rob L writes:

(snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts?

This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve.  While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Casting across, mending the line as it swings and letting it hang for awhile is classic wet fly technique which you have just rediscovered. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Your dragging dry had become an emerger struggling to get to the surface (i.e. trout snack food.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Thanks to all who replied. After reading some of the posts on this group I have come to one conclusion, you guys are nuts! But I like it!

Yes, we are, and proud to be. Maybe it’s because we don’t have Orvis guide to help us to wear a good sun protection… Have a look at the topic "Christmas Island", You will find nuts and knots… Whatever the shop will do it or you for the first time, learn to do it by yourself. Salut, Philippe * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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Thanks to all who replied. After reading some of the posts on this group I have come to one conclusion, you guys are nuts! But I like it! I think I will let the shop spool it for me this time, while I watch, and then attempt a spare spool myself. Thanks again! YD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Since it came as a kit, you should have received the approximately appropriate amount of backing (no gaurantee however).  Your reel should indicate how much backing it can handle for a given (typically weight forward) fly line.  You spool of backing is probably 100 yards. At the shop, they can demonstrate all the knots for you.  Having a knowledgable shop where you feel comfortable and welcome will go a long way in helping out a newbie. Sooner or later you’ll have to learn to do it yourself.  At the shop they can apply tension as they wind the line by using a machine.  I do this myself by poking a pen through the backing spool and then holding the pen with my toes. I apply pressure against the spool with my feet and wind the line with the reel attached to the bottom piece of the fly rod so that the backing goes through the line guide (the biggest guide, closest to the reel is called the stripping guide or stripper, and larger rods usually have two of them, BTW).  You might find it easier to purchase a line winder if you decide you really love the sport and end up with many reels and lines.

Response:

Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

Since it came as a kit, you should have received the approximately appropriate amount of backing (no gaurantee however).  Your reel should indicate how much backing it can handle for a given (typically weight forward) fly line.  You spool of backing is probably 100 yards.   At the shop, they can demonstrate all the knots for you.  Having a knowledgable shop where you feel comfortable and welcome will go a long way in helping out a newbie. Sooner or later you’ll have to learn to do it yourself.  At the shop they can apply tension as they wind the line by using a machine.  I do this myself by poking a pen through the backing spool and then holding the pen with my toes. I apply pressure against the spool with my feet and wind the line with the reel attached to the bottom piece of the fly rod so that the backing goes through the line guide (the biggest guide, closest to the reel is called the stripping guide or stripper, and larger rods usually have two of them, BTW).  You might find it easier to purchase a line winder if you decide you really love the sport and end up with many reels and lines.

Response:

writes: Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie…

LOL.  I have an Orvis vest and Orvis waders, but no Orvis hat!  However, I do have him start my car — you can never tell with some of the crazies Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie… LOL.  I have an Orvis vest and Orvis waders, but no Orvis hat!  However, I do have him start my car — you can never tell with some of the crazies Dave L.

Ya, can you imagine the damage an exploding junbo sized bottle of xink would do to the interior of that new A6? Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!! Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! I’m still ahead, 7 to 2.  You probably paid ol Joe to post that!  <g Dave L.

Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Steve B. writes: Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to.

Just pulling your chain, friend.   Checked out your site for the Western Clave.  Nice. Dave L.

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While I agree that it’s a good idea to have the dealer load your spools if possible, it pays to know how to do it yourself.  Someday you will ruin a fly line while out on a trip and you will need to do it yourself.  I would recommend getting an extra spool, and after watching somebody with experience, load up your extra spool (maybe with another kind of line, like a sinktip or a different taper).  That way you will have seen it done twice plus you’ll have a spare spool already loaded for that day when you’re out on a river and ruin your line. –Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to. —

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Yeah! Take THAT, Dave!

Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie…

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I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!   Yeah! Take THAT, Dave!

I’m still ahead, 7 to 2.  You probably paid ol Joe to post that!  <g Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

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I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!  

Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Bill Kiene writes: I would take it to the shop that sold it as it is their job to put it together for you. They can teach you some knots while they are installing properly for you. I would get some casting lessons now so you can practice at the park. By spring you will be ready for those fish.

Hey, rw:  another one for *my* side. Nanna nana na na!   Pfffffft.  d:0) Dave L.

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I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!  I recommend a couple of books for you: "Fly-Fisherman’s Primer" by Fling & Puterbaugh; and, "Practical Fishing Knots" by Sosin & Kreh.  I found both of these quite helpful for the beginner.  Also, the following web site is very useful. http://www.myhost.com/flyfishing101/ Have fun, and good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Response:

I would take it to the shop that sold it as it is their job to put it together for you. They can teach you some knots while they are installing properly for you. I would get some casting lessons now so you can practice at the park. By spring you will be ready for those fish. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks. Most shops have a motorized winder and if you bought the gear there, they’re more than happy to load the reel for you.  While they’re doing it, note the knots and methods they’re using.  The next one will be all yours.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash.  

This is flyfishing trash talk! Yo mama, Dave! OK, OK, he can save some hassle by having the dealer install the backing and flyline, but that’s just delaying the inevitable. One of the most fun things about flyfishing is learning to tie the knots. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly.

WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash.  Listen to what the majority are saying:  Take the reel, line and backing back to the dealer.  If you bought the reel there, he will probably put in all together for you.  He has the tools, machines and knowledge.  You do not — at least at this time. Watch what they do.  Ask questions.  The next time you buy a new line you can put it on yourself.  You can learn the knots as you go along, YD. There are only a couple that you need right off and that is a double surgeons knot (or blood knot) to tie on your tippet, and a uni-knot, clinch knot or improved clinch to tie on your fly. Dave L.        —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

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"Yankee Dick"write:snipI recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

First this old Texan will give you a pass on commenting about your name. This is a one time shot and don’t expect anyone else on this newsgroup to be as nice as it simple won’t happen. Yes take them back to the shop from which they were purchased and let them load the reel, but pay attention so that you won’t have to take your next fifty outfits back and depend on someone else to assemble the mess. Big Dale

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash. This is flyfishing trash talk! Yo mama, Dave! OK, OK, he can save some hassle by having the dealer install the backing and flyline, but that’s just delaying the inevitable. One of the most fun things about flyfishing is learning to tie the knots.

my attempts at tying a bimini can not be classified as fun <G rw, i invite you fishing anytime… you tie the knots, i fish… we’ll both have a blast <G chris

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Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

Take it to a shop.  Won’t cost you much more (unless you a about to buy an unsuitable line).  They will help you pick a line appropriate for the kind of fishing you plan to do. Also, the will show you a leader formula so you can tie your own, and put the backing and line on the reel for you, all for the cost of materials. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Don’t take it to a dealer. Don’t listen to LaPlac. You’re FLYFISHING now, dude! That means you have to learn a bunch of obscure knots. Use an Arbor Knot to connect the backing to the reel. Use an Albright Knot to connect the backing to the flyline (with Pliobond if you expect to actually use the backing — fighting a fish, that is). Use a Nail Knot to connect the butt section to the flyline. Use a Bloodknot to connect the leader to the butt section, Use a Surgeon’s Knot to connect the tippet to the leader. Use a Uni Knot to connect the fly to the tippet. Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Yankee Dick writes: I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Well, first off, YD, if you stick around this newsgroup, you are gonna take a lot of flack and abuse about your name.  <G Welcome to ROFF.  By all means, YD, take the reel, backing, and line back to the dealer and have them put it on. They know the proper knots to connect the backing to the reel, the line to the backing.  For future ease of changing leaders, have them put in a loop to the end of the fly line so that you can make a loop to loop connection for your leader(s).  Some folks don’t like the loop to loop, but it is ideal for a newbie — no knots.   While your at the fly shop, have them teach you how to connect the tippet and how to tie on a fly.   If you have any problems, the folks on these pages are always willing to help. Good luck, YD, especially with your handle!  <g Louie

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Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Most shops have a motorized winder and if you bought the gear there, they’re more than happy to load the reel for you.  While they’re doing it, note the knots and methods they’re using.  The next one will be all yours.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

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Question:

How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

        anybody that uses canon equipment has *got* to be a fish-killin’, beer drinkin’ reprobate.         olympus rules!         email me with your detailed needs, buddy, and i will try to find something for you. happy thanksgiving! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Tim, These will not fit an EOS mount.  I beleive you can get and FD/EOS adapter, however you lose all your metering functions – not a good thing eh! If you need bellows there are the Novaflex autobellows for EOS, you may have to hunt around for them second hand, I beleive that they are not cheap. Alternatively I use Hoya close-up filters on a 50mm 1.8 lens, these do a good job, you have to be very careful with your focusing and depth of field. Canon now actually make extension tubes for EOS – however I don’t know how much they cost, so you I can’t comment on them. Regards, AS

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: [deleted] : No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on : their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. : Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should : work regardless ? Pasted from my save file: Can any one refer me to some resources on the internet that explain the difference betwen Canon’s FD and EF Lenses?  I also would like to find out the compatibility issues of FD lenses with Canon EOS Cameras?

Canon EF lenses are autofocus (usually with manual focus capability); they fit Canon EOS camera bodies.  Aperture is 100% electronic and can only be set from the camera body.  EF lenses cannot be mounted on a F, A, or T series (FD) camera body; adapters are not available. Canon FD lenses are manual focus only; they fit on the older Canon F, A and T series camera bodies.  Aperture is set on the lens by turning a ring or placed on "A" (or "O") for automatic aperture setting.  FD lenses cannot be mounted on an EOS (autofocus) camera without an adapter. FD/EF adapters are either optical or macro.  Macro adapters will not allow the lens to focus to infinity.  Optical adapters made by Canon are useable only on certain expensive telephoto lenses.  Optical adapters made by 3rd parties are not noted for quality.  When FD lenses are used with any EF adapter, focus will be manual and metering must be performed manually with the lens stopped-down to the taking aperture. Dave Herzstein http://www.kjsl.com/~dave/index.html Bill Jameson

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You can probably achieve fair to good quality if your are careful with tripod mounted camera and close-up lens attachments  that are much cheaper than extension tubes and bellows.  Check with B&H in NY.

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For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ?

Kenko is a brand name of some extension tubes.  There are others.  Look in the B&H ads in the mags.  Canon has there own set (more expensive.) Now, as far as ‘magnification’ is concerned, I hope you realize that you are delving into an area of photography where simple one line answers on USENET are not going to serve you well.  Suggest you start reading some books on macro photography. Magnification is a function of object distance (from lens), the focal length of the lens, and the image distance (from lens to film).  Change any one of these three and you will change the magnification.  As an experiment, pick up a plain ‘ol magnifying glass, and focus an image (let’s say from your monitor screen) onto the back of your hand.  Then walk a few feet away and try again.  You’ll notice that the image on your hand is smaller.  What you’ve done is change the object distance and observed the difference in size due to it. Magnification is defined as the image distance divided by the object distance.  Thus the closer you can get to an object the greater the magnification.  Conversely, if you can increase the image distance then you will also get greater magnification. What extension tubes accomplish is the latter.  They move the lens away from the film, thus increasing the magnification. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies. Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ?

Yes, there are ring lights that will work with EOS and still have TTL flash control. How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ?

Let’s see, a 35mm frame is 1.5” long, the item is 1/4" long, so the magnification required would be (1.5)/(1/4) = 6.  You are talking ‘real’ macrophotography, it IS NOT the stuff most people think about when they buy the so called 105mm ‘macro’ lenses!  You’d need the bellows unit, and a lens that could work with it.  Canon makes them.  There are third party items as well. Real macrophotography is very involved, and costs bucks. Canon publishes a "Macro" book; B&H has it listed for $18, I suggest you order it. BTW, Canon just came out with a special macro lens that can go to 5x, almost your requirement!  Expect to pay around $1050 for it.  The focal length is only 65mm though. -dan

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Thank you. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ? No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

[deleted] No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90.

Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should work regardless ? For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes

I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ? and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens.

Again…the photo shop here in Podunk didn’t have this…at least not for the EOS…sources ?  I do have magnification filters (+1, +2, +4) and these work so-so…I’ve been putting them all together and just feel really cheesy about it. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ? How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

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I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ? Does anybody have an extension tube/bellows or macro lens they could part with for a fair price ? Lights ? I’m trying to do some photographs of fishing flies for scanning and posting and am very much an amateur with a desire to do a good job. Thanks very much… — TimW

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I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ?

No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

Question:

yep agree completely…as a newbie to the sport I finally got serious and traded in the 7 wt telephone pole and now use a nice Redington actually it was a gift from a friend. I have practised with that sucker and gone to some classes and it certainly does help with a newer model and constant practise I agree whole heartedly with your assesment and here on the Bow River you NEED practise. but then the rewards are great! Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back. I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy… nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better

… read more »

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If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit.

Seems reasonable Tim, better than landing in a tree anyway, but not necessarily better than landing in a bush ! TL MC

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I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate…

I hear ya…it takes supreme accuracy and nerves of steel to lose 3 double rigged dropper setups in the exact same branch 3 casts in a row after missing a nice one (fish). — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

Response:

My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

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_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

        boy, asadi, you have shit in your hat now.  wait ’til george finds out you have posted under his name without proper accreditation! wayno

Response:

Mike,   Your post should serve as a wake up call to all of us who still have some freedom in fishing.  I am certain if PETA was given a free hand there would be none.

These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Tony, these measures are not European measures, but local German measures. There’s no European legislation on sportsfishing (yet). Cheers, Herman These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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<SNIP Tony, as far as I am aware most of these regulations are specific to Germany. No other European country has such regulations "yet". Germany is continually being cited all over Europe as the "enlightened forerunner" with regard to pollution, animal rights, etc etc. Although I do not know all of the different countries regulations of course. I cant stand it !  But I have no choice, I live here ! TL MC

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Big deal.  I can tie knots that would make ol’ King Gordius proud around my rod which end up requiring the Alexandrian solution. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

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Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back.   I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy…     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better and showing them how, than you are to elicit gratitude. Women by the way being generally far easier to teach than men in my experience. ( I taught my wife as well ). I would imagine that the casting abilities of the average fly-angler in the States is not much better than that detailed above either. I would suggest as well that anybody wishing to improve as an angler should practice dropping his fly into a bucket or similar, or even a hula hoop at various measured ranges up to say forty feet. If you can do this consistently then distance will never be a problem for you, and you will certainly catch more fish. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Hi Mike, Can you please explain the reasoning behind this requirement?! Surely, if one is a crap caster, one merely fails to catch many/any fish?! No one suffers, least of all the fish! It’s not like a driving or a flying licence where the safety of the driver/pilot and others is a stake. There is much that I find daft and barmy about German fishery laws (as you have been kind enough to vouchsafe to us): this, not the least of it. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Hi Tony, One of the reasons for the complex fishery laws is the fact that they are also affected by a number of laws not directly connected with actual fishing. Just to give you an example for instance, nobody in Germany under the age of 16 years may hold a fishing or hunting licence, as it is illegal for a minor to be involved in the killing of a vertebrate animal.  This means minors may not go fishing at all except when accompanied by a licence holding adult, and they are still not allowed to catch and dispatch fish. Rights of access are complicated, Animal rights issues, environment conservation, fish recognition, habitat knowledge,  ethics and the law, rights of acquisition, size limits, closed seasons, sanctuary rules, how to kill a vertebrate animal humanely, and a host of other subjects are covered in the theoretical instruction prior to the angling examination. At the moment a minimum of thirty six hours theoretical instruction is mandatory,  and one must of course pass the written test at the end of this. The instruction includes fishery laws, environmental laws, animal rights laws, and a great deal of other stuff. Assuming you do your homework well, and get all the necessary info and literature together, it is possible to manage this in the minimum allotted time, but only just barely. For most people they must reckon with three to six months hard slog before they can take the test. The mandatory instruction is usually carried out on the premises of a local school etc, on the basis of four or five hours, a couple of evenings a week for six weeks or so. Casting and other tuition is extra, depending on the licence one wishes to obtain.  A "normal" fishing licence for general bait fishing requires that you pass several tests and the written exam.  If you wish to go "spinfishing", extra tests and stricter rules are applied. If you want to go fly-fishing, you must first have passed all the other tests, and may then take the fly-fishing test.  Upon passing the tests you have chosen, either one, two or all, you then receive a "Sportfisherpass" as proof that you passed the tests. This must be carried at all times along with the state fishing licence you may then apply for, as well as identification in the form of passport or ID card. The whole thing is very cheap, and theoretically you could pass the exam for as little as thirty marks ( about ten quid )you must then obtain a  licence on the strength of this. These vary from state to state at the moment, as specific fishery laws lie in the hands of federal state government. The licence itself costs about ten quid, and in some states you must pay this every year or at regular intervals. Other country-wide laws override some state laws, but not in all states, and some states laws are different to others. As it happens my licence is valid for life. No clubs will admit anglers to their ranks without a licence, and a "sportfischerpass" which you receive when you pass the exam, detailing the disciplines you have successfully passed . You are only allowed to do the type of fishing for which you have a valid "sportfischerpass"  this includes angling in coastal waters by the way, A sportfischerpass and licence is mandatory everywhere in Germany for residents, even on put and take ponds. Non residents, i.e. Tourists may obtain temporary licences, if they produce proof that they hold or held a licence elsewhere,but they are unlikely to be able to do much fishing as for nearly all clubs now the "sportfischerpass" is mandatory. Some clubs may make exceptions and allow "guests" who are accompanied by a member. This may be in the form of a restricted "day ticket" type of thing, or in some clubs it is free, but whatever the guest catches is subtracted from the members quota. In one of my clubs the yearly quota for a member is a maximum forty fish per year. These may be Salmon Trout Grayling or Seatrout, or any combination of these fish, a maximum of four fish per day is allowed. Takeable fish must be immediately humanely killed and taken. The fishing day must be entered into the "catch book" which is also a mandatory requirement of most clubs, before fishing commences, and this must be carried at all times with the other documents listed above, and with a current copy of the fishery rules, fish taken must also be immediately entered into this book.  Possession of fish not entered is proof of "poaching", and will inevitably result in expulsion from the club, being charged in court, and automatic loss of fishing licence for life. It is considered very bad form to fish yourself when you have a guest, but it is not forbidden. Most other transgressions etc carry heavy punishments, and there are plenty of AR nuts there to make sure every angler who transgresses is dragged into court. The reasons usually given for all this are also complex.  But I will give it a try ! First it must be ensured that every angler is a responsible person, and has sufficient knowledge to carry out his pastime without breaking any laws or injuring anybody else.  In Germany if you damage another person or his property either wilfully or otherwise, you are personally responsible, no matter how the damage came about.  Most sensible anglers in Germany are insured against this, many through their clubs, which obtain special rates, though at the moment it is not mandatory. A certain level of casting expertise, and knowledge of relevant laws supposedly lowers the likelihood of anybody being injured or wrongfully molested. All waters in Germany are divided into contiguous "sections", irrespective of who owns them. Most still waters are considered single "sections", and there are private "put and  take" ponds which are the exclusive property of their owners to do with as they see fit. These sections are leased by the state fishery boards to clubs for a minimum of twelve years, the club being chosen which is in the greater public interest for that area, and local clubs being given first bite at the cherry. The board of owners, ( if several owners own that section), or even the single owner has a very restricted influence on who gets the lease, and also a restricted right to vote on prices etc. All clubs must be open to anybody who has a licence, or their chances of getting any water are zero.  No fishing rights are owned by private individuals. ( Except the put and takes already mentioned ). Some clubs regulate their membership by keeping the prices up, as the club subscriptions are set by the club committee and by general and open vote at the AGM of the club. Clubs may also set any restrictions they like over and above the normal fishery laws, but they may not set any lawful restrictions aside. One of my clubs for instance is fly only on the two rivers we lease, barbless hooks are mandatory, hook size is restricted, multiple hooks are forbidden, one fly only may be used at any one time, no other type of fishing is allowed. Catch and release is generally illegal. Put and take as it is generally understood elsewhere is also basically illegal but is tolerated to some extent, ( the letter of the law states that it is illegal to release a fish purely for the purpose of catching it, this is cruel and unnecessary ), is however under increasing pressure from AR organisations and the "greens" who favour the AR groups. Clubs must have a certain structure consisting of trained and examined personnel, before they can operate or obtain water. This usually means a fisheries officer per/ certain number of members, a bailiff / per certain number of members, an environmental officer, trained and examined fisheries personnel who may then be licensed to use fisheries equipment, such as electro-equipment, a training officer, a chairman, a treasurer, and all the other usual officers found on a committee. The clubs may ask for assistance from the local state fisheries board in some cases,  but are basically responsible for stocking maintaining and supervising the water themselves. Special licences are required in order to carry out certain operations, for instance re-introducing reared fingerling sea-trout, catching and stripping mature sea-trout for the purposes of breeding, and various other operations. All posts in the club are voluntary, and the incumbents are voted in or out at the AGM

Question:

Visit the Austin Flyfishers at http:\www.austinflyfishers.org We have lot’s of local knowledge and some great outings

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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Thanks for all the replies.  I have ordered my book and look forward to trying my luck here in Texas. Anyone ever fish the Guadalupe near Comfort?  I will be there this weekend. When I was a kid, I used to catch bass and perch pretty easily there.  Last time I tried about two years ago I saw zero fish. Dave    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

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I haven’t fished the Guadelupe in several years…just never had much confidence in that river. After looking at some web sites, scanning recent reports, have become interested again. Mostly curious as to details re DRY fly fishing on this river, as I’ve heard mostly about nymphs and wets. Do dries work here? What sections, what times of day, time of year, types of flies? Hope to start getting out there in Dec.-Jan. Thanks! ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

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Go by the Austin Angler and pick up a copy of "Fly Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy.  It has pretty much all you need to get you going. Course if you already have a can of corn and want to stand elbow to elbow …. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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I was in there this afternoon and they still had a stack of them. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

<<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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Question:

Hi Kyle, There are, at last count, 20 fly shops in the bay area.  Some great, some good, some so-so.  Where abouts are you and I’ll recommend a shop. Wes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m from Texas, and I just moved to the San Francisco area.  I am wondering if there are any good places to fly fish  saltwater or otherwise that I should know about. Thanks Kyle

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I’m from Texas, and I just moved to the San Francisco area.  I am wondering if there are any good places to fly fish  saltwater or otherwise that I should know about.   Thanks Kyle

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Kyle- take a look at WWW.FISHFIRST.COM any other ??, drop me a line and I’ll try and help out Larry #:)# (I’m in Danville)

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Question:

I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

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Practical Fishing Knots II is the 2nd edition of Practical Fishing Knots. It’s an excellent book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated. Dave

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No offense to Lefty and Mark, they are tops. However, their books on knots, while best sellers are sort of twisted. Just try tying a Bimini twist for the first time with one knee as stated in their instructions. You can get better basic info for the majority of knots for free by writing Ande Monofilament, 1310 53rd St. West Palm Beach, FL 33407…. Much better instructions. Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY (no connection to Ande) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

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 Knots on the Web (Peter Suber) is a great site with eveything you could ever want to know about all kinds of knots.  It’s one of those pages that makes you say "WOW, I had no idea THIS many people were fascinated by KNOTS!"   From there, you can find specific pages that meet your needs and interests.  Try using your browser to search the page for the word "fish" if you don’t feel like scan the page manually for fishing-related knot pages.  There are several that are fly fishing-specific. In case your news reader doesn’t support html, the URL is: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm Hope it helps, Joe Bollinger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

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Question:

Looking for a flyfishing guide for Gasparilla Fla after Xmas this year. Marc

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that’s easy if you can get him… Call Capt Sandy Melvin and book him early. 1 800 4 tarpon.  He’s great on tarpon snook and reds…his fax is 813 (could be 941 as we jsut had a ac change) 9644 1611.  enjoy!! regards grant

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Question:

To whom it may concern:     I want to fish the Genesee River in Rochester, NY but was told I need to get slinkys otherwise conventional split shot will forever hangup.  Can anyone provide me with some solid information on what I need to make these.

     The "formula" for slinkies is something like the following (sometimes I make them; sometimes I buy them – I’m an amature at this):      You start with hollow nylon cord.  Strong cord is called parachute cord, but you can also find this in any hardware/Kmart/etc. as drapery cord.  I also got some from the camping section.  It is a woven nylon cord with another nylon string/cord inside.  You start by cutting it somewhere and extracting the inside cord, leaving a hollow core.      You need a small butane lihgter for the next steps.  the cord is cut into small lengths, ranging from 2 to 4" in length.  Take the butane lighter, heat one end of a strip to the melting point and close it.  You can use a piece of paper or cardboard to do this and prevent small burns and nylon sticking to your fingers.      Then you fill the tube with split shot, using size 6’s or 8’s.  The little tubes will take about 4, and the big tubes will take up to 8 or so.  In this manner, you will be able to adjust the weight you use, depending on the current where you are fishing.      The next step, of course, is to close the tube.  You push the spli shots down close to each other, against the closed end, and then you heat the other end.  Repeat the process for closing it up.      You can buy equipment and lay it all out (cut pieces, split shot, lighter, etc.), and make slinkies on a "production" basis – just like tying up 2 dozen flies of the same kind.      I suppose the next question will be how to attach them to your leader?

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writes:     You can buy equipment and lay it all out (cut pieces, split shot, lighter, etc.), and make slinkies on a "production" basis – just like tying up 2 dozen flies of the same kind.     I suppose the next question will be how to attach them to your

leader? I find it interesting what people will do just to say they are flyfishing.  There is a  perfect rig for this outfit, it is called spinning. Ernie Harrison

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To whom it may concern:     I want to fish the Genesee River in Rochester, NY but was told I need to get slinkys otherwise conventional split shot will forever hangup.  Can anyone provide me with some solid information on what I need to make these.

If you’re not losing hooks and lead on the bottom, you are not trying hard enough. A simple way to go deep is to double a short length of nylon over your leader (with one shot to hold it in place) and add as many shots as you need to get the depth.  When they hang, with luck they will slide off the end and you’ll get most of your terminal tackle back. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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To whom it may concern:     I want to fish the Genesee River in Rochester, NY but was told I need to get slinkys otherwise conventional split shot will forever hangup.  Can anyone provide me with some solid information on what I need to make these.    I was told parachute cord and buckshot.  I bought both and neither fit. Pls be as detailed as possible and it would be a big help if you could in- dicat where one could get some of the materials.

  Unless you’re into S&M, slinkys and flycasting don’t mix.     A better bet is to make small "mini heads" out of lead core trolling line. Cut the leadcore into several six and twelve inch segments. Whip a loop onto each end of these segments. You can now loop these to the end of your leader in any combination you please. To make an thirty inch head loop two twelve’s and six incher together and so on. Tie the tippet directly to the terminal loop of your head.    The result is a relatively easy mess to cast that will get you *down* and doesn’t tend to hang up. Excellent system when fishing surf on rocky coast lines where every cast gets wrapped in crud.    Tight lines and open loops, Ralph

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You can buy "Quick Kits" that include the cord, pre-stuffed with shot. Contact: Scott Eno, P.O. Box 373, N. Syracuse, NY 13212.  In some tackle shops, his one ounce kit sells for $6.95.  If you should decide to buy the shot and cord separately, I urge you NOT to cut the cord to length before stuffing the shot into them.  Do what Scott Eno has done: stuff the entire cord with shot (one end sealed with a lighter/candle) then just cut and singe to the size you desire.  Cutting the cord first leads to wasted cord as it readily unravels when you stuff the shot in.

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To whom it may concern:     I want to fish the Genesee River in Rochester, NY but was told I need to get slinkys otherwise conventional split shot will forever hangup.  Can anyone provide me with some solid information on what I need to make these.    I was told parachute cord and buckshot.  I bought both and neither fit. Pls be as detailed as possible and it would be a big help if you could in- dicat where one could get some of the materials. Thanks, Bob Lyons

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Bob, in CA we take green paracute cord and singe the end with a match. Then stuff with BBs or other shot to desired weight and singe the remaining end.    Clip this onto a snap swivel to place on your line ahead of the lure or bait.  I never heard of this for fly fishing but it is popular with bait fisherman in salmon and steelhead water. To whom it may concern:     I want to fish the Genesee River in Rochester, NY but was told I need to get slinkys otherwise conventional split shot will forever hangup.  Can anyone provide me with some solid information on what I need to make these.    I was told parachute cord and buckshot.  I bought both and neither fit. Pls be as detailed as possible and it would be a big help if you could in- dicat where one could get some of the materials. Thanks, Bob Lyons

– Tim Ackerman "Everyone Lives Downstream"

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