Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

Response:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

Response:

Question:

I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for?

Soitenly! Look for a Garmin GPSIII+ /daytripper

Response:

The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.               — Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

Hard to say.  My personal expectation is that there will be a version available with more internal flash memory, sometime in the spring.  The GPSIII+ has 1.44 megs in additional to the (good) base map.  Take a look at  www.joe.mehaffey.com .  That’s sort of a "clearing house" for current GPS info. And, start looking at/participating in/ the newsgroup that I mentioned.  Since this is not a germane subject for most flyfishers, email me directly for follow-on info. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

Question:

SSSHHHHHHH  Why tel anyone SSSSHHHHHHHHHHH. Nobody knows but us…

DSR is a big place on a bigger river.   I think our secret is safe. Apparently only about a hundred thousand guys know it, judging by last weekend’s crowd outside DSR. And don’t get me started on the cultural differences between the few fly fishers there and the lead-chucking majority. Joe F.

Response:

(photos to follow, including one in my roff shirt)

Okey dokey, if you’re interested, the photos are up at alt.binaries.pictures.fishing.   The subject headings are just variations of my screen name: rb608-1, rb608-2, and rb608-3.   The roff shirt is in -1, but it’s unfortunately less than obvious.   -3 is a big salmon with the rod, and -2 is the standard guy-with-a-fish photo. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep

Question:

I just received my latest rod purchase in the mail today, an old SQUARE fiberglass rod. The seller thinks its from the 1940’s. Its a seven foot rod in a cream color. On the butt it says-  " Pan Fish FLY ROD PF-7 For HDH or D" It has a green aluminum downlocking reel seat and the wraps are done with different color thread but its all mixed up, each guide has 4 or 5 colors of thread mixed.Its a cool looking rod. I fished it this evening and landed several fish, of course the biggest one shook the fly. Had my best luck with a 24 cream Griffith’s gnat. This thing’s a dream for midging… But HEAVY! Does anyone know of this rod, when it might have been built and what exactly does HDH and D mean? Any help would be appreciated….. Matt M. P.S.  No, Big Dale, it’s not for sale

Response:

… Does anyone know of this rod, when it might have been built and what exactly does HDH and D mean? Any help would be appreciated…..

Hey Matt, Don’t know much about 40’s fiberglas but HDH translates to DT6. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

Response:

does HDH and D mean? Any help would be appreciated….. Matt M.

This is a dimensional description.  The H corresponded, IIRC, to 0.025 inch diameter.  Each letter backward added 0.005.  Thus, D would be 0.045.  Accuracy in these dimensions was not a stron point for line manufacturers. Bill

Response:

Try calling Martin Keane of Classic Rods and Tackle in Ashley Falls, Mass.  Phone 413-229-7988.  He is an excellent authority on antique tackle. Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just received my latest rod purchase in the mail today, an old SQUARE fiberglass rod. The seller thinks its from the 1940’s. Its a seven foot rod in a cream color. On the butt it says- " Pan Fish FLY ROD PF-7 For HDH or D" It has a green aluminum downlocking reel seat and the wraps are done with different color thread but its all mixed up, each guide has 4 or 5 colors of thread mixed.Its a cool looking rod. I fished it this evening and landed several fish, of course the biggest one shook the fly. Had my best luck with a 24 cream Griffith’s gnat. This thing’s a dream for midging… But HEAVY! Does anyone know of this rod, when it might have been built and what exactly does HDH and D mean? Any help would be appreciated….. Matt M. P.S.  No, Big Dale, it’s not for sale

Response:

Question:

Reality Sucks I say she’s seeking guidance from an experienced fly fisher/computer scientist, and deserves your best efforts. Dave

Response:

Reality Sucks I say she’s seeking guidance from an experienced fly fisher/computer scientist, and deserves your best efforts. Dave

Yep, that’s my take, too, although I think the help she needs in more in the flyfishing area than the computer area. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a difference. I believe rw. I don’t believe that 9 lb brookies exist. Well maybe in Labrador.

Funny thing you should mention that Mike.  Last Sunday’s Milwaukee Journal Sentinel had a short article on the new Wisconsin state record brook trout.  I don’t recall exactly what it weighed but I believe it was just over ten pounds.  It was caught out of Lake Michigan, I believe, by a guy who had been fishing the big water for several years.  It was his first legal brookie!!  By the way, the old record, set some time in the forties was over nine pounds and came out of the Prairie river up in the north central part of the state.

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin?

  A lot of the high mountain lakes in Idaho and Montana, lakes that take four-five hour hikes to get to, in Idaho are chocked full of twelve inch stockers.  They dump the fish in by airplane. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Dear All, I’ve been fishing for quite some time, tho i’d never tried fly fishing.  Well, on Monday I turned 29, and a few friends got together and got me a started kit for fly-fishng.  I watched the video that came with the kit (hey – you have to start somewhere…) and have a few questions. 1. Backing – how much & why bother?  I can’t figure out what this stuff is for – I have a forward tapered line, 30 yrds long.  How much backing do I use? 2. What is the difference between the tippet and the leader? 3.  Can anyone suggest a good book or website for help on starting out.  I realize I am going to have to take lessons one way or another, but if I could get myself started, I really like to have a go.  I live about a five minute walk from a river, so I figure I try this out fairly easily.  I don’t expect to catch much, but this looks like a whole lot of fun. 4.  Can anyone suggest any good beginner rivers near Ottawa, Ontario and some flies to go with the river?   I wouldn’t mind learning how to catch trout or bass (the rod is 6/7 weight)… is the former possible near Ottawa? 5.  Any suggestions for a fly fishing store in Ottawa?  I use the LeBaron’s & the Cdn Tire for most of my fishing stuff, but I am not sure if they will be adequate for fly-fishing. thanks for any advice you can give…  I am really looking forward to trying this out! Alastair Mullin

Response:

You will receive some very useful information here on many of these question and I will attempt to start: Dear All, I’ve been fishing for quite some time, tho i’d never tried fly fishing.  Well, on Monday I turned 29, and a few friends got together and got me a started kit for fly-fishng.  I watched the video that came with the kit (hey – you have to start somewhere…) and have a few questions. 1. Backing – how much & why bother?  I can’t figure out what this stuff is for – I have a forward tapered line, 30 yrds long.  How much backing do I use?

The backing has two purposes 1) add diameter to the spool(1:1 retrieve is preety slow) and to add length when you get into the big fish.  You should use enough backing so that with the backing and the fly line, you are with 1/8th to 1/4 of and inch of filling the spool. 2. What is the difference between the tippet and the leader? 3.  Can anyone suggest a good book or website for help on starting out.  I realize I am going to have to take lessons one way or another, but if I could get myself started, I really like to have a go.  I live about a five minute walk from a river, so I figure I try this out fairly easily.  I don’t expect to catch much, but this looks like a whole lot of fun.

Email me and I will send you a very long list of fly fishing sites.  One I frequent is http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ 4.  Can anyone suggest any good beginner rivers near Ottawa, Ontario and some flies to go with the river?   I wouldn’t mind learning how to catch trout or bass (the rod is 6/7 weight)… is the former possible near Ottawa?

The Ottawa river and Rideau rivers both hold bass and other warm water species and there are spots on the Ottawa that hold trout. 5.  Any suggestions for a fly fishing store in Ottawa?  I use the LeBaron’s & the Cdn Tire for most of my fishing stuff, but I am not sure if they will be adequate for fly-fishing.

fart .. oops .. extinguished gentleman that runs the place is very knowledgable and has course covering all aspect of fly fishing, from insect life cycles to tying flies. thanks for any advice you can give…  I am really looking forward to trying this out! Alastair Mullin

Chris Richer

Response:

Choose one: 1.   Lying 2.   Stupid 3.   Gay 4.   Computer Scientist  <g

  5.    Married with two kids. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

 5.    Married with two kids.

Me too.   Wonder why that didn’t occur to me?   As Roseann Rosannadanna said, "never mind." Your story reminded me of a greeting card I once found.   On the front was a photo of an extraordinarily beautiful girl – perfect skin, perfect hair, perfect makeup, nice figure, etc.    On the inside it simply said, "You’re old enough to be her father.   Happy Birthday."   Nothing like an occasional reality check. Joe F.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams.

There’s a difference. I believe rw. I don’t believe that 9 lb brookies exist. Well maybe in Labrador. I would believe the fly. An unginked Parachute Adams is pretty durned miraculous, although I’ve never bought one smaller than #18 —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN3vWqMkBcsCVVLK5AQEphAP+NRC/76qrfjaiOP7l/mNUTqEEjMVHMGnx sGTYeseyqkT2C0XEeqXtB63/2CCfWmgr9/Yj/FhMTzweH/yjWDctRZwjUDukPee9 x2ZsHfYFI3c4f6QFz0F5+j2LUIqmRrfi3+M3CXkXOkebayhONMCCqNi+rZttLlns Y1Qc50XQptg= =yx4a —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, B.S. | http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "Living with a dog is easy-like living with an idealist  is easy." -H.L. Mencken

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: <<Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. Was that the one in Panama, Ken?  I think I remember it! Dave LaCourse

Response:

When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her,

        in which case, i say to you in the depth of seriousness, you need psychological help.  i have observed your posts for several months, and i am certain that the words we see above are a sham, pure drivel, meant to decieve the foolish amongst us.         go for it, man.  hell, if you saw jo lacourse, you would realize that *nothing* is impossible! wayno.

Response:

[snipped]    go for it, man.  hell, if you saw jo lacourse, you would realize that *nothing* is impossible!

Boy, ain’t that the truth ;^) /daytripper (still amazed)

Response:

While the Fish & Game guy was cleaning my fish this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. She’s wearing waders and has a big Malemute dog. She’s a dead ringer for Janine Turner, who played Maggie in the TV show Northern Exposure. She says, "Are you the computer scientist?" Jesus H. Christ, what’s going on here?!

I don’t know what’s going on; but if beautiful women are seeking out computer scientists, there may be hope for us engineers, too. I’m not hitting on her.

Choose one: 1.   Lying 2.   Stupid 3.   Gay 4.   Computer Scientist  <g Joe F. btw: notice how everyone ignored the fishing part of that story?

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: <<Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. Was that the one in Panama, Ken?  I think I remember it!

Why yes, yes it was. I’m surprised you remember anything about that trip, if it wasn’t for those silly bottles I’d have never got you back into the jungle to witness my brookie extravaganza. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her,         in which case, i say to you in the depth of seriousness, you need psychological help.  i have observed your posts for several months, and i am certain that the words we see above are a sham, pure drivel, meant to decieve the foolish amongst us.

Well, Wayno, I’ll admit that I’m conflicted about it. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I pigged out on trout today. I’m so full I could hardly get myself to the computer. My dog pigged out on trout, too. Anyone want to make something of it. Seriously, these were stocker rainbows in a pond where they won’t survive the winter. If I don’t kill them Old Man Frost or the bait fishermen will. I can get my limit of 12" fish there any time I want, and it’s only 15 minutes from my cabin, along a beautiful dirt road where I regularly see elk and sandhill cranes. When I get blanked on real (i.e., wild) fish I go there. While I was landing a fish a hungry-looking osprey was circling my float tube. If that sucker can’t catch his own fish in this spot I have no sympathy for him. Life is good. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, these were stocker rainbows in a pond where they won’t survive the winter. If I don’t kill them Old Man Frost or the bait fishermen will. I can get my limit of 12" fish there any time I want, and it’s only 15 minutes from my cabin, along a beautiful dirt road where I regularly see elk and sandhill cranes. When I get blanked on real (i.e., wild) fish I go there.

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin?

More than one. The Sawtooth Hatchery is just a couple of miles down the road. It’s main purpose is to keep the steelhead and salmon going, but they also stock some lakes and the Main Fork of the Salmon heavily to keep the tourists happy. There’s plenty of fishing for wild trout here, but that’s nearly all C&R and I like to eat fish sometimes. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

rw, I experienced the stocking program at Stanlee Idaho while vacationing there. I had been fishing without much success when some ladies returned with several large trout that were obviously from a hatchery and started telling me it was easy to catch trout.  In fact if I would go to this small stream by the road I could practically catch them by hand.  The fishing was so easy they couldn’t understand why I didn’t have a lot of fish and I wouldn’t need the waders or any thing because I could just jump across the stream. Needless to say I didn’t try to tell any fishing stories that day. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Sawtooth Hatchery is just a couple of miles down the road. It’s main purpose is to keep the steelhead and salmon going, but they also stock some lakes and the Main Fork of the Salmon heavily to keep the tourists happy.

Response:

rw, I experienced the stocking program at Stanlee Idaho while vacationing there. I had been fishing without much success when some ladies returned with several large trout that were obviously from a hatchery and started telling me it was easy to catch trout.  In fact if I would go to this small stream by the road I could practically catch them by hand.  The fishing was so easy they couldn’t understand why I didn’t have a lot of fish and I wouldn’t need the waders or any thing because I could just jump across the stream. Needless to say I didn’t try to tell any fishing stories that day.

It’s just amazing how heavily they stock some of these places. I had to go to Challis today, about 60 miles away, and on the way back I stopped at Squaw Creek Pond. This is about a 1/2 acre holding pond for young steelhead. It has literally thousands of fish in it. I must have caught 40 or 50 fish in an hour and a half, keeping six that were hooked so badly I thought they wouldn’t make it. This may not be the most aesthetic fishing experience in the world, but I like knowing I can catch my dinner whenever I feel like it, courtesy of Idaho Fish & Game. A couple of weeks ago I was fishing one of these stocked ponds — a real pretty one. As I was walking out of the water with my standard six fish an Idaho Fish & Game guy introduced himself. As I was fumbling around in my vest for my license he just asked me if he could clean my fish! He wanted the stomachs to find out what they were eating. While the Fish & Game guy was cleaning my fish this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. She’s wearing waders and has a big Malemute dog. She’s a dead ringer for Janine Turner, who played Maggie in the TV show Northern Exposure. She says, "Are you the computer scientist?" Jesus H. Christ, what’s going on here?! It turns out the proprietor of the local fly shop, whom I know well, told her I was up there. Thanks, Larry! So we chat for awhile, I look over her fly boxes, pretending to be expert (these fish will hit about anything), and then give her a fly that I know for sure is a super killer in this pond. My fish are finally cleaned (the guy took forever), so I collect the fish, give her my phone number, and split. When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. I’m telling you guys, this place is sportsman friendly. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

<snip … this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. … … so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. <rest of tall tale snipped

Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

<snip … this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. … … so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. <rest of tall tale snipped Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams.

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken.

I believed every single word til I got to the "I’m not hittin’ on her" part. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken. I believed every single word til I got to the "I’m not hittin’ on her" part.

Yeah, that is a little tough to swallow. Maybe I’ll try a very delicate downstream approach, with a 14′ 7x leader. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

I’ve been using a commercial furled leader–Mulligan’s Finest–and I find it’s a great dry fly leader. Using one, even I can make delicate presentations. I also have a custom job that someone gave me, and a commercially available horse-hair leadert made to Charles Cotton’s specifications, but I can’t bring myself to risk either one on the water. Gary

Response:

I saw an article about creating twined leaders in a web site (that is no longer there unfortunately).  For those of you that don’t know, a twined leader is a leader that uses on long length of tippet sized material that is looped varying numbers of times from the butt section through the transition section and finally to the tippet section.  Actually two lengths of looped sections are made.  Once all of the loops of each section are made, they are twisted separately under a weight and then tied together and let to un-twist.  The un-twisting actually twists the two sections together like a rope.  What you end up with is a no-knot, gradually tapered leader.  It sounds like an interesting concept to me. Does anyone have any experience in either making these leaders or using them? TIA, Tom —  Tom Schwendler  Black Dog Fly Fishing  http://www.conknet.com/blackdog

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw an article about creating twined leaders in a web site (that is no longer there unfortunately).  For those of you that don’t know, a twined leader is a leader that uses on long length of tippet sized material that is looped varying numbers of times from the butt section through the transition section and finally to the tippet section.  Actually two lengths of looped sections are made.  Once all of the loops of each section are made, they are twisted separately under a weight and then tied together and let to un-twist.  The un-twisting actually twists the two sections together like a rope.  What you end up with is a no-knot, gradually tapered leader.  It sounds like an interesting concept to me. Does anyone have any experience in either making these leaders or using them? TIA, Tom

Hi Tom, interestingly I’ve come across such web sites myself in the last couple of weeks. I’ve asked around and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. I’m about to assemble the stuff to try and make one myself according to information found at http://www.danica.com/mj/Tacktech/henk/index.html. There is another website which describes a slightly different method http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/tips/furled/furled.html. I think these leader constructiuons seem to be very useful improvements. Good luck Another Tom.

Response:

Question:

The fishing inside the park was great when was there.  I saw two others fishing in a week. Lots of little Brookies. Crystal clear feeder brooks. Didn’t crawl way up into the high country so can’t say about that, and the only water of any size is paralleled by the main park road. Lots of easy access but you are kind of in a fish bowl as half of New Jersey drives by. But again the fishing was great.  Seem to remember some interesting water back in off the Cade’s Cove area. Don’t know why you would need a guide, just decent maps. The town itself and "Dollywood" could use a good cleaning out with a flame thrower. A real indictment of private sector greed and Babbitry. Or on the positive thinking side, it "offers many entertaining and shopping adventures" for the non-fishers in your party.  The park itself is magnificent. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up. Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

        there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

Response:

Question:

-run-off on upper Bow usually in mid June to early July at latest – lower Bow and Crow would be 2-3 weeks earlier – this year will be heavy as mountain snow-pack is 150% – early May should be okay barring anything unusual                              Dan Bell, Upper Bow Fly Fishing Co. Banff

Response:

: -run-off on upper Bow usually in mid June to early July at latest : – lower Bow and Crow would be 2-3 weeks earlier : – this year will be heavy as mountain snow-pack is 150% : – early May should be okay barring anything unusual :                              Dan Bell, Upper Bow Fly Fishing Co. Banff How would you stagger your fishing trips so as to avoid run-off in SW Alberta?  For example, could I fish the lower Bow in May, switch to the upper Crow in late May/early July, etc? Pete

Response:

Question:

My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti?

IMO, no, its a very good vice for the money unless of course he has the money to buy the more expensive vice. (Regals ARE nice) Then just on principal he should get the more exensive vice. After all this is fly fishing <vbseg. Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

Yes he does I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.

If you don’t want to use the rotary feature (I don’t), just tighten the rotary mechanism against the post and it will lock. Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my

Thompson Pro? You’re just rationalizing Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him
out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does
need a new vise.
I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does
not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to
my Thompson Pro?

I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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: It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, : except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. A good vice should last a lifetime, I always say. (Sorry, couldn’t resist…) — BW Brad Williams —

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… I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro?

You can in fact, adjust the drag (to the point of locking) on the renzetti’s rotation using the 2 friction wheels. It’s not the most convenient system though. Personally, I use the traveller as my only vise. I do travel alot and often bring my tying case with me. The size and weight of the traveller are great for this. Otherwise, the traveller is a great vise for the money. Good jaws, large range and very functional, at 1/3rd the price of the rest of the renzetti line. rick

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I’ve used everything from the Thompson A vise through the Renzetti, HMH, and Regal, and I’ve ended up with the Regal…it’s an absolutely foolproof vise,provides resting place for the left hand, is perfectly rotatable, esp. if Ingeset it up horizontally, can be used right-= or left- handed, has interchangeable heads, and can be had for a reasonable price.  The other vises are wonderful, too, but nothing beats the Regal in my view (for what it’s worth), and I’ve been tying flies for more than fifty years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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I have responded several times to questions about the Renzetti Traveller. It is wonderful.  The issue of the rotation not locking is a non issue. What makes the Renzetti system so nice is that the rotation of the hook shaft is central, due to the offset jaws.  Therefore, there is no tendency for the vice to rotate under load.  The other thing that is very nice about the Traveller that is not true of the higher priced Renzettis; it will rotate in both directions.  This is very useful if you tie ribbing reverse-wrapped over palmered hackle, such as in a Spey salmon or steelhead fly.   Crashjibe

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

I have both a Regal and a Renzetti Traveller. I love the Renzetti. It works very well, is very well designed, and weighs only 8 ounces! Steve Rosenblum

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I’m relatively new to tying.  After breaking my beginner $13 Indian vise, I bought a Renzetti Traveller.  I really like the Traveller–but admitedly I don’t have much experience for comparisons.   By the way, you CAN lock the rotation by increasing the drag sufficiently, although it’s not overwhelmingly convenient.

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The Traveller is the BEST vise for someone upgrading from a beginners-type vise. The price is right, and it will be years before he outgrows the vise and feels he needs a more sophisticated one. And then he will have one for traveling and one for the home base!!!

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My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

Have you tried a Regal vise yet?  I have an Inex (their cheapest model) and I love it.  Sometimes I wish it were a rotary, but that’s only once and a while.  The spring loaded clamping method they use is really neat.  Just work the handle and insert a hook. One problem though.  If you don’t put the hook in enough, it may pop out and chip the tip of the jaws.  I did that twice then sent it back.  They fixed it for free, but made it clear that the next time I do that it will cost $25 for a new set of jaws.  Plus I have kids, so I have to find every hook I drop.  One flew over 10 feet out into the hall.  Thank goodness hooks are made out of ferrous (sp?) metal. I was wondering if other cam-type vises do this too?   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Question:

The MERCHANT NAVY is the official name for the British merchant fleet in recognition of their losses in the World Wars. In fact there was a badge issued to mercant sailors that consists of the letters MN. — ship safety branch canadian coast guard-west vancouver

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                Union Flag in the upper left.        That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK        is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an        oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime? Sincerely worried, John.

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I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime?

I’m no sea lawyer, but I believe the only illegality would be to fly the ensign of the wrong country from the customary position (mainsail leech in the case of Dr. Who) in order to falsely claim the protection of that government ("false flagging"). I believe Dr. Who is "numbered", not "registered" ("documented") in California, as I don’t imagine she admeasures the minimum of 5 tons required for documentation.  (Is she in Lloyd’s Register of Yachts?) Furthermore, if she were documented, *you* would not be allowed to own her. If numbered in California, she is a U.S. vessel regardless of her ownership. I believe Miss Manners would require that you fly from the leech only the U.S. ensign (or the U.S. Yacht Ensign).  In addition, you might fly the Red Ensign from the "courtesy ensign" position (usually the starboard spreader.) As to your last question, I think it might depend on whether Britain were at war *with the United States*. Sincerely worried, John.

May you avoid Dinty Moore Beef Stew henceforth,                  Tom Murphy Standard Disclaimer.

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JOHN S DREWERY writes:

        I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger         red ensign.  I have always been a bit worried about whether I         have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.           I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but         thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net         wisdom.         So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red         ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British         government requisition the boat in wartime? You’re a bit light with caps, aren’t you old son. Try Red Ensign. Right? Might is Right. Fly it with pride. If I had a smaller one I’d fly it from the cross-trees of my GOBLIN as a Jolie Rougier – if you know what I mean.                                         Cap’n Fido, terror of the South Bay                                         GOBLIN

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And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s)

The Royal Fleet Auxilliaries fly the Blue Ensign.                      "In the long run, we’re all dead."                               -John Maynard Keynes

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The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

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:   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave — Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877              Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

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… the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. … Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

It’s not clear if you mean (currently) non-British or (ever) non-British.  In the former category is Jamaica.  Their martime flag is formed in a manner similar to New Zealand’s with a white cross and three red quarters and the Jamaican green/black civil flag in the top quarter nearest the (?)fly. Randolph Bentson

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Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. There are several other countries that have special marine flags. I do not have a list of them but at least U.S., Italy, Denmark and Finland have ones. In Finland each yacht club has it’s own symbol at the upper corner at the fly. The ensign is white, like the national flag, but has added to the blue cross another white cross on right onver the blue one. The ’sailor’ flag is actually older than the Finnish national flag, because when the first yacht clubs were born more than 130 years ago, Finland was a part of Russia and the sailors did not want to fly the Russian flag and they got the permission from the czar to fly a ‘club ensign’.  Anyway today this ‘club ensings’ are bona fide national flags, because all of them are approved by the parliament to be so. If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline. If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline. This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope? – Lauri Tarkkonen

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The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

Perhaps ‘not derived from British practice’ would be more accurate (see India, Ireland etc) The only ones which spring to mind are the swallow-tailed ensigns based on the national flag, as used in Scandinavian vessels. Also certain yacht clubs in Belgium and the Netherlands use defaced (technical term meaning ‘bearing a badge or symbol’) national flags as ensigns. At least one Dutch yacht club appears to have a version of the White Ensign. Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel. For the origin of the Red, White and Blue Ensigns see ‘Squadronal Colours’ in the Oxford Dictionary of Ships and the Sea. More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years? Brian Gay

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave

Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877             Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

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[much useful informatio non Ensigns deleted] More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years?

I think the operative word is ‘bastard’.  I agree with you.  The Ensign is to designate the country under whose authority (or protection) the vessel is placed. Give me the Red Duster (or defaced Blue/White/Red) any day! — Regards, Iain  snailmail: MLB G/53a, BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich. IP5 7RE

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Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. —

Can you explain the purpose/use of the Jack.  In the US navy it is called the Union Jack and is a square blue flag covered with white stars.  What does it mean and when is it flown?  Do only military vessels fly it? Every time I’ve seen it mentioned in a book it has piqued my interest so I read about it only to find the writer apparently knows no more about it than I do. Greg Cook

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel.

This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)? — Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass.   "Sir, you will either die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That, my lord, depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." John Wilkes to the Earl of Sandwich, Parliament, November 1763

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This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  

My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official registration* and therefore the British subject may fly the Red Ensign. What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?

There are two registers – the Official Register of British Ships and the Small Ships Register. Getting your ex-US ship onto the former would be difficult and costly but the latter is straightforward – apply to SSR, DVLA, Swansea, Wales.  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)?

Permits to fly other British ensigns are issued by the authorised clubs to members owning registered vessels. Brian Gay

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There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself.

No. It is flown in the bows (at a jackstaff) on Royal Navy ships at anchor or moorings (when it is properly called the Union Jack). As the Union Flag it is the personal flag of an Admiral of the Fleet. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat.

If the boat is on a British register, this is correct. If not, then whatever ensign is  allowed by the law of the charterer’s country. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron.

The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club.

Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign. [Interesting historical stuff deleted] If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline.

Nice gesture, but see below If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline.

A long-time custom of the sea. Some countries require this by law. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline.

Yes, if registered (see above) This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope?

That’s the problem – to avoid international repercussions, all the national flags would have to be at the same height and of the same size. I hope to be in Finland next year or the year after, Lauri, so you can visit my boat to see that my flag etiquette is all it should be! Brian Gay

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: My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official : registration*… However, I can cite a case where a boat was purchased in England and registered in Colorado.  It carried the CO number and annual sticker.  The only "paperwork" was the usual (approx) 3" x 3" card with a few (very few) details about the boat and the owner.  That was accepted by the customs of numerous countries around the Mediterranean, and in the Canary Islands, Cape Verde Islands and Martinique.  The only time it was no longer accepted as the *official registration* was when the boat was brought back to the States and permanently berthed in another state (not CO).  When I went to the customs in Martinique, there were several French boats that had all come in at the same time.  I was a bit nervous because they all had official-looking books registering their boats and all I had was this pathetic little bit of a card from Colorado (I wasn’t even named as the owner).  But the customs accepted it without any question.  You can’t get much more *official* than that The owner was American so the boat always flew the S & S.  We did fly the Red Duster as a courtesy flag in England. B.S!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign.

I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ? regards — Chris Cooper

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Cooper) says: I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ?

Yep:  the Royal Solent Yacht Club in Yarmouth, IoW, for one. Regards, Alister

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: HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole : at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what : flag goes where? Hm? HMY Britannia trivia: the ship’s name is not marked on any external part of the hull or superstructure. I don’t know if it is marked anywhere inside, not having been there myself. — Terry Steinford

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:    David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:            The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,            a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the            Union Flag in the upper left.    That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK    is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an    oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:    MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant    ships on the official registers of any one nation. It    embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger    liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small    coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in    fishing.

And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response:

Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons).

HMY Britannia is run by the Royal Navy and as such flies the White Ensign. I am fairly certain that the Blue Ensign is only flown by civilian vessels carrying ministers of the Crown, but I defer to your more expert knowledge on flag code concerning yachting. I certainly don’t see any particular reason why some clubs might not be granted permission to fly the Blue Ensign; many of their officers are reservists in the Royal Navy and as such would fly it anyway. It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag.

My point, at the ultimate beginning of this particular bit of vexillological discourse, was not that British fishing vessels had to fly the Red Ensign, but that they would be in the wrong (and most in violation of the law) to fly the White or Blue Ensign (or the RAF Ensign or the Trinity House Ensign or the Royal Northern Lights Commission Ensign, etc. etc.). They need not fly the flag, but if they do they are only permitted the Red Ensign. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what flag goes where? Hm?                           "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                   -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        Francis Muir says:                 Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common                 use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE                 SEA:                         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the                         merchant ships on the official registers of any                         one nation. It embraces  merchant ships of all                         varieties, from passenger liners and very large                         tankers and bulk carriers to small coasters, but                         does not normally include vessels used in fishing.         Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow. Okay, I was wrong to         some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed         to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine,         but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; … Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons). It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

Response:

Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow.     Okay, I was wrong to some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine, but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; my statement that the UK Merchant Marine fly the Red Ensign is still correct (not just the Merchant Navy as a subset of the Merchant Marine).                       "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                 The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                 a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                 Union Flag in the upper left.         That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK         is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an         oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant         ships on the official registers of any one nation. It         embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger         liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small         coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in         fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response: